What happens in 10 years when all the TVs are HDTVs? [Archive]

Anonymous

08-06-2003, 01:52 AM

Do we have to resort to keeping around a couple 'classic' TVs for the sole purpose of playing colecovision games? As I understand it, by 2006 every TV should be HDTV or DTV compatible, with the ultimate goal of eliminating Standard Television, or NTSC format. Which means that no old devices will work on the new sets.

Stock up NOW! Quick!

ApolloBoy

08-06-2003, 02:06 AM

Don't worry. I'm sure someone'll make converters and stuff like that.

davidbrit2

08-06-2003, 02:28 AM

There's no way that they flat out won't support NTSC. That would just be foolish. Hopefully we won't have to settle for crummy, lagged, upscan conversion, though.

Felixthegamer

08-06-2003, 03:07 AM

old Tv's will be another thing to look for at thrift stores....

The Manimal

08-06-2003, 04:58 AM

It'll be supported. Just think that anything you have that's 4X3 will have bars on the sides on your 16X9 HDTV.

christianscott27

08-06-2003, 09:55 AM

is that 2006 deadline still on? i remember a lot of televison stations and networks were grumbling about it, high production and equipment costs for a very tiny audience. i mean we have about 2 years to go, how many people do you know with an HDTV? i cant even imagine my mom and her generation ever shelling out $2000 to see the fine hairs of alex trebeck's moustache. maybe if the economy was doing better, right now most households are waiting until its under $300 at wal-mart i think. since this is the domain of the FCC we'll have to see what colin powell's corp. whore of a son wants us to do...stay tuned!

isnt there some angle where they have to switch because the FCC promised a chunk of the signal spectrum to pagers and mobile phones? perhaps PDF will share some industry info with us.

FABombjoy

08-06-2003, 10:19 AM

One reason for the push to switch is the incredibly inefficient use of the radio spectrum that is broadcast TV. If you look at the FCC spectrum allocation here (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf), you can see just how much broadcast TV occupies. It wouldn't be so bad, but how many broadcast stations do you actually receive? Probably less than 10, even with a giant rotating yagi antenna. That's a lot of spectrum wasted, considering there is allocation for channels 2-69.

The FCC is planning on auctioning off certain portions of the now-TV broadcast spectrum. This keeps changing, and a lot could happen between now and 2006. Just do a search for 'tv spectrum auction' and see all the articles relating.

Portions of the TV spectrum have already been axed. Remember when TVs used to tune to channel 83? If you have an old TV with manual fine tuning, tune around the 70-83 area & listen in on cell phone conversations. It's hours of fun.

You will, at least, be able to purchase decoders for use with current televisions. Expect the price on these to drop dramatically when NTSC broadcasts cease, and the backlash from millions of angry soap-fans and senior citizens hits.

Captain Wrong

08-06-2003, 10:20 AM

Glad you asked this fluke. I've been kinda curious about this myself. Of course, I rarely watch TV, so I have a feeling I won't be buying a HDTV until they're practiacally giving them away, but still I was wondering if they had some sort of backwards compatability in them.

dave2236

08-06-2003, 10:52 AM

If I remember correctly, you can buy a converter for an older TV for around $100.

Anonymous

08-06-2003, 02:21 PM

Yeah, considering the bang up job they've been doing so far to get HDTV into consumers' hands, I don't think the 2006 date will hold. Thanks for all the info though everybody!

*runs to buy an old 83 channel tv*

XpOsUrE

08-06-2003, 03:01 PM

Don't worry. I'm sure someone'll make converters and stuff like that.

Yeah exactly, already asked this in a store, and they do have them already but they are on the expensive side if I remember correctly, though I guess due to the price of the tvs to begin with is why the adaptor cost so much. Anyhow I did not buy either to much money for me right now :D .

Anthony1

08-06-2003, 08:23 PM

That's why you should play all your old systems on RGB monitors. I'm always going to play my old stuff in RGB, like the artist intended.

Then with the PS3 and XBOX 2 and GameCube 2, all of those should be fully HDTV compatible. We should be playing games on the next generation of systems at incredibly high resolutions.

Pantechnicon

08-07-2003, 12:53 PM

Do we have to resort to keeping around a couple 'classic' TVs for the sole purpose of playing colecovision games?

It will probably come down to that. That's my plan, anyway, since I have a few systems e.g. - a very early production 4-port Atari 5200, that I am not willing to risk converting to composite output.

It's kind of funny to think that in a few years my old 5200 will probably be the only thing within a 100 mile radius broadcasting a signal on Channel 3.

I can envision this nightmare scenario wherein even the thrift stores won't stock pre-2006 tellys because...well, what would be the point? (gasp) x_x Better get two or three TV's with good tubes while supplies last.

NE146

08-07-2003, 02:36 PM

huh? I don't understand. Is there a problem playing 2600/Colecovision/5200 consoles on HDTV's? :? Someone explain please :?

zmeston

08-07-2003, 03:13 PM

That's why you should play all your old systems on RGB monitors. I'm always going to play my old stuff in RGB, like the artist intended.

In fact, the graphic artists of most older (16-bit and back) console games designed their work to look "best" on NTSC televisions, not RGB monitors. GBA artists work with RGB monitors, but they examine their work on real GBAs; console artists examined their work on NTSC televisions, since that's what players would be using.

-- Z.

Anonymous

08-07-2003, 03:43 PM

@NE146, there's no problem right now, because current HDTVs are designed to accept the (inferior) NTSC signal that TVs have been using for years. But The US is supposed to go completely digital within the next few years, so the Gov't can stop using the radio bandwidth that channels 2-69, and give the bandwidth to other devices (like cell phones). When that happens, any device that uses RF signals (like 2600s) will not work, because newer TVs won't have the hardware to recognize that signal.

Also, The Format itself may not be compatible, so even for things that have composite out (like the NES), we will still need an upscan converter to display the signal that we can get to the TV.

The Manimal

08-07-2003, 04:49 PM

x_x what anotherfluke mentioned is frightening! i really hope this is not the case, or all my stuff is unusable? add to that my lower high end a/v equipment...

Pantechnicon

08-07-2003, 06:58 PM

The migration to HDTV is not the first time the FCC re-allocated bandwidth for other communication purposes. Ever wonder what happened to your television's channel 1? You can read about it here (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_372b.html).

Leo_A

01-26-2005, 11:06 PM

What's this warm chocolate puddin' stuff I see around here? Is that a actual term? It sounds stupid, I got to think its some stupid term started at classic gaming boards..

Iron Draggon

01-26-2005, 11:13 PM

My guess is that some company will be smart enough to start selling custom videogame monitors that are basically NTSC TV's that only receive channel 3 & 4, and they'll make a killing selling them to all us classic gamers around here.

As for the warm chocolate puddin' thing, I agree, it's gotten very old, and only a very select few people seem to know what the hell it really means. And none of them are telling what it means either, so it's just retarded. I still don't know what the hell it means, but I'm getting very tired of wondering.

Phosphor Dot Fossils

01-26-2005, 11:14 PM

It's a word filter for RGB. Go ahead, try it! It's fun! :P It'll probably go away at some point - don't sweat it.

Unless you're sweating warm chocolate puddin'.

Iron Draggon

01-26-2005, 11:16 PM

Well I knew it was a word filter, I just didn't know what the hell the original word was. And I'm not even sure I wanna know how RGB was transformed into warm chocolate puddin'! But I do have a much better question though, how the hell did you type RGB without it becoming warm chocolate puddin'?

Phosphor Dot Fossils

01-26-2005, 11:17 PM

Food coloring, man, food coloring. LOL

Cirrus

01-27-2005, 01:26 AM

And I'm not even sure I wanna know how warm chocolate puddin' was transformed into warm chocolate puddin'!

It probably wasn't very difficult.

NEOFREAK9189

01-27-2005, 03:03 AM

Luke

01-27-2005, 06:33 AM

I've thought about this and decided that a HDTV is not very appealling due to all the "enhancement" crap they do to the images.

So I intend to get two monitors, one will be for progressive material only and will be a VGA monitor, probably 19". For interlaced I am considering getting a professional monitor, specifically this one:

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/features.jsp?feature_id=01&tree=&itempath=&model_id=MDL101337

I'll need the BGR/component card but these monitors are very nice and sturdy plus BNC connectors are the best. I will be able to tate it with no worries.

I intend to get the X-Select D4 which will allow me to hook up my systems and still use my BGR SCART cables (using a Japanese BGR to SCART converter cable) but also connect my PS2 and GC by D-terminal as well to get progressive BGR via the VGA monitor.

I think this will be fine for me, but it might not appeal to everyone.

Luke

SkiDragon

01-27-2005, 12:50 PM

In my experience, the problem with HDTVs is that while they make high definition signal look better (obviously), they also make non-high definition signals look worse. I dont know why this is the case. For example, one progressive scan TV I had seemed to be working fine, but when I hooked my NES to it, it caused a wierd vibrating motion when the screen moved. Hard to explain.

kainemaxwell

01-27-2005, 01:10 PM

I could go for some RGB now too.

TheRedEye

01-27-2005, 01:39 PM

That's why you should play all your old systems on warm chocolate puddin' monitors. I'm always going to play my old stuff in warm chocolate puddin', like the artist intended.

hahahaha, you're about as reliable as Steve Urkel coming over and breaking something. Like clockwork, man.

Raven1280

01-27-2005, 03:09 PM

calthaer

01-27-2005, 11:55 PM

Whoever says that regular TV will entirely disappear? You will probably still be able to get the normal signal on satellite and / or cable TV...where a lot of people probably get it now.

wberdan

01-28-2005, 12:36 AM

In my experience, the problem with HDTVs is that while they make high definition signal look better (obviously), they also make non-high definition signals look worse.

Its like looking at your bathroom with bad vision. Looks nice and clean untill you put on some glasses and you see all the mold and grim in the corners.
Thats why regual tv looks bad... you can now see all the bad detail in the signal

i personally do NOT believe this statement to be true.
i have heard a lot of people say " it's because HDTV is so much more revealing " ... that isn't true- it should not make a signal look worse than when i feed it to a 1986 sony rg'b monitor.
i am conviniced that it is some mechanism in the upscaling feature of TV's and processors.
for example- my sega genesis looks very soft and lacks definition running through a dvd-o Iscan pro, but an SNES looks crisp and defined. I believe it is something to do with the way the processor treats the signal...
something is definetely *not right* in certain areas of hooking old systems to certain upscaling units, including HDTV's.
some work, some dont-

willie