Does anyone have a 36 inch Wega Trinitron (model KV-36HS20)?

[segafan1989]

I just recently got this TV for free but I'm having problems trying to get my Sega Genesis games to look right on it. I'm using the composite cables because I don't like modding and I want the games to look like they did when I was a kid. The images look sort of like they would on an LCD and I don't know why. Sonic for example, has small distortions around his character edges and screen text is not clear. Now, when I hook my Genesis up to an old Sansui 27 inch, the game looks clear like it's supposed to. Is the big Sony 36 inch an HDTV? I like the screen size of the Sony, but if I can't get it to work, I'll just have to toss it. Thanks much.

[theclaw]

Sega Genesis is known to have worse quality composite video than average.

You don't need to mod if that's the cause of your problem. Genesis has RGB lines on its AV jack.
Component video would involve a converter box like this, the right SCART cable, and adapter to get audio (Genesis model 1 can use the front headphone jack).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SCART-RGB-to-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler-/221156873851?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item337dfa167b

[wiggyx]

It's a digital HD set. That may be part of the issue.

[theclaw]

It's a digital HD set. That may be part of the issue.

That just makes it even more important to avoid composite.

With composite, you're sending pre-damaged video to the TV. Any existing flaws in the image are easier to see on HD sets.

[segafan1989]

Thanks for the replies folks. The problem with the SCART to component to tv route is that it will display in 16:9 instead of 4:3 and I can't change that. I know this because when I hooked up my original Xbox using component, this happened. I guess I'll toss the TV and get a Sony Trinitron SD CRT. Any suggestions on a 27-32 inch, SD, Sony trinitron?

[Rickstilwell1]

Usually all you gotta do is put a free sign on it and leave it on your parkway. Somebody will probably take it off your hands the same way you found it.

[theclaw]

Was your Xbox set to 16:9 in its menu?
What about the TV's options menu?

We haven't diagnosed anything yet.

[BlastProcessing402]

Before you get rid of it, have you tried adjusting the set? In particular try messing with sharpness. Try it again with sharpness all the way down. Then (with the game on the screen) start to move it up. See if anywhere in there it gets close to what you see on your old set.

[Ed Oscuro]

You could get component out of the Genesis via an RGB mod or JROK, I suppose. It should end up looking at least like this (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?111237-Sega-Genesis-RGB-out-Q-s).

That stuff about what the Xbox signal format is in obviously shouldn't apply to this set. There should be a setting somewhere on the Xbox or the television itself to change the format.

You really need to plug the model name in online and download the television's manual.

[segafan1989]

Was your Xbox set to 16:9 in its menu?
What about the TV's options menu?

We haven't diagnosed anything yet.

I didn't think about the Xbox being set to 16:9. I'll test it again this afternoon. I have been thru every option in the menu trying to get it to look right and have had no luck. I've been looking thru the service menu, but there are so many options and I don't know what most of them mean so I don't want to mess with it too much for fear of screwing up the calibration.

[Ed Oscuro]

That is wise. Stay out of the service menus unless you know what you're doing - which means having the service manual at hand, and also a pad of paper handy to write old settings down for tweaking, since there's no "revert to factory settings" option. It's also possible to damage the set from fiddling with those settings.

I bet it really is as simple as setting the Xbox back to 4:3.

[segafan1989]

Xbox display problem solved. It was set to "widescreen" in the options menu on the Xbox. Thanks for the tip on checking that first. I didn't think to check that because I never play the Xbox anymore since I got my old stuff back and it always had a disc in it, so it booted straight from the disk and I never saw the options menu. So back to the Genesis...if I hook up a SCART cable to a converter box and then run component cables from the converter box to the TV, that's supposed to produce some awesome video? Wouldn't the signal degrade while running through the converter box?

[Ed Oscuro]

If you do have the Genesis RGB modded, then a RGB to component converter (or transcoder) should let you display right on the TV. They aren't exactly cheap, but they aren't as expensive as regular upscalers, either. I don't think the signal will degrade in any meaningful way; you don't have a native RGB interface with the TV to use, so you have to use component video - and component is very, very close to RGB in quality.

About digital or high def TVs, I understand they have some quirks but I wouldn't expect them to have problems with your games.

[segafan1989]

If you do have the Genesis RGB modded, then a RGB to component converter (or transcoder) should let you display right on the TV. They aren't exactly cheap, but they aren't as expensive as regular upscalers, either. I don't think the signal will degrade in any meaningful way; you don't have a native RGB interface with the TV to use, so you have to use component video - and component is very, very close to RGB in quality.

About digital or high def TVs, I understand they have some quirks but I wouldn't expect them to have problems with your games.

Awesome! Thanks Ed! Have you used any particular SCART cable that produced great results? I'm looking through eBay and other threads on here and I'm getting more and more confused. Can SCART cables not be found in the US? It looks like they were only used on PAL tv's in Europe?

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, let me just parrot something some other people said was important to know ;)

SCART is the name given to the plug used for these kinds of RGB connections. "Actual" PAL-area SCART cables can carry non-RGB-related signals, like S-Video, using the same connector; the connectors were still adopted in Japan. What's being used in Japan is still the same physical connector, but it is (usually) wired differently. Many people insist on just calling it RGB-21 for this reason. But there are also cables which are used in Japan and here, rarely, for RGB and are also wired with the European pinout. We can put the Japanese pinout to the side in most cases because there are relatively few products which are wired that way. However, it is something to watch out for, since it's possible to damage a machine using a cable wired the wrong way, while the cables still look the same.

Yes, I have heard of different quality RGB cables, although look at the first post on this page (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34857&start=630) - it depends on the system a bit, although shielded cables should be fine. I only use one SCART-style cable, wired for Japanese RGB-21, with my XRGB upscalers. The folks at Retro Gaming Cables, or this guy (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43883) (although the cable pictured is not what you want, he might accept a job to make one of the right type) should have good ones on sale. I'm just passing along some of the basics I've read about here and there - lots of people here will have more hands-on experience with cables and encoders. Personally, I still like to use my old systems with their original type cables, although early Genesis video output is a bit ugly.

[theclaw]

Awesome! Thanks Ed! Have you used any particular SCART cable that produced great results? I'm looking through eBay and other threads on here and I'm getting more and more confused. Can SCART cables not be found in the US? It looks like they were only used on PAL tv's in Europe?

SCART cables are easier to get in the US than they used to be. Retro gamers have built up a small audience for using them with converters.
Very few US tv's had the physical plug. Even among our monitors who accept RGB, their connector may be another form like BNC.

Actually several US systems provide ready to use RGB output. Despite lack of tv's.

To my knowledge (may need correction):
PS1
PS2
PS3
Saturn
Master System model 1
SNES model 1
Genesis, 32X, CDX, Nomad, and some X'eye units.
Dreamcast
Neo Geo AES
Xbox
Xbox 360
Jaguar
Amiga

[segafan1989]

Many thanks Ed and theclaw. You guys rock! I'm looking to get this for my Model 1 Genesis (VA3 motherboard). Once they get in, I'll post some results. Hopefully it'll look great on the Sony.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SCART-RGB-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler-/221156873851?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item337dfa167b

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Megadrive-1-Genesis-1-RGB-AV-Scart-Cable-NEW-/120734116765?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3 D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D6368416199663081001%26pid%3 D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D221156873851% 26

[theclaw]

Expect a more coin-op look. RGB was near universally accepted in arcades of the era. Only video format used by JAMMA standards.

You should end up with clearer more readable text, less bleed or fuzzy transitions between different-color pixels, and the TV's scanlines easier to notice.

[segafan1989]

Expect a more coin-op look. RGB was near universally accepted in arcades of the era. Only video format used by JAMMA standards.

You should end up with clearer more readable text, less bleed or fuzzy transitions between different-color pixels, and the TV's scanlines easier to notice.

Does an HDTV have scanlines?

[theclaw]

I'm not really sure. Didn't own an HD CRT TV.

My final remaining CRT has component, but is SD. Many people don't realize those existed.

[CRTGAMER]

I just recently got this TV for free but I'm having problems trying to get my Sega Genesis games to look right on it. I'm using the composite cables because I don't like modding and I want the games to look like they did when I was a kid. The images look sort of like they would on an LCD and I don't know why. Sonic for example, has small distortions around his character edges and screen text is not clear. Now, when I hook my Genesis up to an old Sansui 27 inch, the game looks clear like it's supposed to. Is the big Sony 36 inch an HDTV? I like the screen size of the Sony, but if I can't get it to work, I'll just have to toss it. Thanks much.

Please post a game screenshot of Sonic
This way we can see exactly what is going on. You can go to the menu settings and play around with the brightness, sharpness and different video motion settings.

I own two WEGA HD CRTs; the 32" models and love them. Though they cannot be used with retro lightguns, both have a really great pic for the older consoles as well as support for HD pics. Don't toss it, the HD CRT especially in the 4:3 screen was not in production that long.

The HDCRT is 120hz and it does have scanlines, just not apparent compared to a SD tube.

KV36HS20 Manual: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KV36HS20.PDF

[segafan1989]

Please post a game screenshot of Sonic
This way we can see exactly what is going on. You can go to the menu settings and play around with the brightness, sharpness and different video motion settings.

I own two WEGA HD CRTs; the 32" models and love them. Though they cannot be used with retro lightguns, both have a really great pic for the older consoles as well as support for HD pics. Don't toss it, the HD CRT especially in the 4:3 screen was not in production that long.

The HDCRT is 120hz and it does have scanlines, just not apparent compared to a SD tube.

KV36HS20 Manual: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KV36HS20.PDF

Thank you for the link to the manual. Here are a couple of pictures of the game on the TV, but it's not that noticeable with my camera. You have to see it in person. The image just has a sort of blockiness to the edges. I ordered the SCART and converter box so I hope the results are better. 64496450

[Zing]

The easy answer is that it is a digital set. It up scales everything to 1080i, and there is no method of preventing this. Even good composite is going to look like ass, or in your words, like "an LCD".

I looked at your photos and that is exactly how the Genesis will look via composite on an HD screen.