Super Nintendo Battery Backups...

[Panzerfuzion]

I have most of the classic super nintendo rpgs, earth bound, FF3, Chrono Trigger etc... I want to dive into a few of these but I'm worried about the reliability of the saving ability I don't want to get 15 hours into earthbound and the backup fail. Would i be better off playing the roms and not having to worry about losing a save?

[Solo_Skywalker]

If you really want to play the game on the original hardware, (which I think is always the best way to play games) you could always replace the batteries in the carts. I don't think it is to difficult, I am sure lots of people on the forms have some experience with this and could help you out.

[SOL BADGUY]

If you have the money to get the the real cartridges, then why not, I bet the batteries may not be too expensive. Some people complain ABLE "the freeze" in some rom based games in emulators, but I was about to play Chrono Trigger without ever encountering it and finished the game. You could also get one of those cartridges you put roms on and even cheats, and play the game that way on a real SNES.

[wiggyx]

I offer a replacement service if you're not up to the task. It's not at all tricky if you have the tools. A cheap soldering iron and de-solder bulb will get the job done. The tabbed batteries can be had for about $1-2 if you're buying in low volume (less than 20). At this point in the life of a SNES cart, it's not a bad idea to consider swapping the batteries. I've had a few start going on me recently and have been preemptively replacing them.

[Panzerfuzion]

I offer a replacement service if you're not up to the task. It's not at all tricky if you have the tools. A cheap soldering iron and de-solder bulb will get the job done. The tabbed batteries can be had for about $1-2 if you're buying in low volume (less than 20). At this point in the life of a SNES cart, it's not a bad idea to consider swapping the batteries. I've had a few start going on me recently and have been preemptively replacing them.

That's not a bad idea because i would prefer to play on the original hardware. It's the only thing keeping me from playing SNES and NES rpg's. I play platformers all the time because most have a password based save system but I don't want to put serious time into a RPG and have the battery die.

[Aussie2B]

Refer to this topic:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?144415-How-are-your-games-with-batteries-in-them-holding-up

Dead batteries in games are extremely uncommon at this point and not something you really need to worry about at all. You should know how to replace a dead battery since if you get big on collecting, you'll likely encounter one eventually, but it's an easy and cheap process, nothing to be afraid of, and it's something you'll likely very rarely have to do anyway.

As for playing through those games, just test them out first if you're worried. Play until you get to save (which probably won't take long), make a file, turn the system off and pop the cart out, and then wait until the next day to see if the file is there (don't check immediately because the game might be holding onto a slight lingering charge which can make it appear as if it's retaining saves, so give it time to dissipate). If the save is gone, you've got a dead battery, so replace it. Most likely, though, the save will still be there, so start playing. The odds that the battery will be working when you test it but then die within the next few days/weeks are extremely slim.

[wiggyx]

Refer to this topic:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?144415-How-are-your-games-with-batteries-in-them-holding-up

Dead batteries in games are extremely uncommon at this point and not something you really need to worry about at all. You should know how to replace a dead battery since if you get big on collecting, you'll likely encounter one eventually, but it's an easy and cheap process, nothing to be afraid of, and it's something you'll likely very rarely have to do anyway.

As for playing through those games, just test them out first if you're worried. Play until you get to save (which probably won't take long), make a file, turn the system off and pop the cart out, and then wait until the next day to see if the file is there (don't check immediately because the game might be holding onto a slight lingering charge which can make it appear as if it's retaining saves, so give it time to dissipate). If the save is gone, you've got a dead battery, so replace it. Most likely, though, the save will still be there, so start playing. The odds that the battery will be working when you test it but then die within the next few days/weeks are extremely slim.

I wouldn't say extremely. I've replaced quite a few dead batteries (and tested them with a multimeter). It's not super common at this point, but extremely uncommon is very forgiving of those little 2032s :P

Just because it saves today doesn't mean it will tomorrow. It'd suck to play FF3 on and off for a month or so only to lose that file. For the price of the parts, it's worth it for the piece of mind IMO.

[Aussie2B]

We're just arguing semantics here, but I link to that old topic because I think it shows a good sampling of collectors and the number of dead batteries they've encountered. We're talking many collectors who have owned and/or sold hundreds/thousands of games who can count the number of dead batteries they've encountered on one hand, if they've even encountered one at all. That's where I get "extremely uncommon" from.

[wiggyx]

I'm just speaking based on my professional and personal experience.

[Aussie2B]

Well, isn't information more useful when it's broader? I could easily brush aside my own experience of coming across only a single dead battery as a fluke, as me just getting lucky, but when I see that my experience is pretty typical, and, given the volume of games among these people, I think the evidence is pretty solid that the vast majority of game batteries are still functional. It takes a much bigger leap of faith to imagine that all those collective experiences are a fluke, although I certainly wouldn't be opposed to more collectors weighing in.

[Zing]

I have yet to find any dead batteries, on either NES or SNES games. I was also initially concerned about losing data, to the point where I considered replacing every battery before even starting to play. Then I realized that these aren't 40+ hour games here. Losing data is no big deal. I'm not going to be trying to show my game saves to my grandchildren or something.

I suspect that data loss would show up very early while playing if it is truly due to low battery. What are the odds that a game battery will just happen to get below the threshold during the time you are paying through a game. The battery will either be dead before you start, or it will die without you noticing later.

[XYXZYZ]

So far the only dead battery I've encountered was a Super Mario World cart I bought at a GameStop before they got rid of their old carts. I'd replace it except I don't have one of those screwball security bits.

[Parodius Duh!]

Just change the batteries or send them to someone who can (gamereproductions.com, thenesdump.com). Those of you who have yet to come across a dead battery.....just you wait, now that these carts are almost 20-30 (general lifespan of the lithium battery inside ur carts, same as a watch battery) all these batteries are going to start dying off in rapid succession within the next 5 years.

[wiggyx]

Well, isn't information more useful when it's broader? I could easily brush aside my own experience of coming across only a single dead battery as a fluke, as me just getting lucky, but when I see that my experience is pretty typical, and, given the volume of games among these people, I think the evidence is pretty solid that the vast majority of game batteries are still functional. It takes a much bigger leap of faith to imagine that all those collective experiences are a fluke, although I certainly wouldn't be opposed to more collectors weighing in.

No, not necessarily, especially if the information is missing some key supporting bits of data.

I didn't see much, if any info in the thread that you posted regarding the number of games people have have in their collections and have recently played with battery backups. I saw a lot of people saying they'd experienced one or two dead batteries in their lifetime, but I didn't a lot of info about exactly how many games with battery backups they own or have recently tested. Who knows if that person who's only had one dead battery only owns three games with a battery backup. If so, they've experienced a 33% failure rate.

Again, to be clear, I'm not at all saying its common, but just that it's very likely a lot less uncommon than you're exclaiming based on my experience having handled and tested hundreds of NES/SNES/Genesis games with battery backups. I can say that, in my own personal collection of SNES games, I've had to replace the batteries on 3 games (FF2, FF3, and Sim City). I'll have to check how many games I own with battery backups in order to know what percentage that ends up being.

[Aussie2B]

No, not necessarily, especially if the information is missing some key supporting bits of data.

I didn't see much, if any info in the thread that you posted regarding the number of games people have have in their collections and have recently played with battery backups. I saw a lot of people saying they'd experienced one or two dead batteries in their lifetime, but I didn't a lot of info about exactly how many games with battery backups they own or have recently tested. Who knows if that person who's only had one dead battery only owns three games with a battery backup. If so, they've experienced a 33% failure rate.

Again, to be clear, I'm not at all saying its common, but just that it's very likely a lot less uncommon than you're exclaiming based on my experience having handled and tested hundreds of NES/SNES/Genesis games with battery backups. I can say that, in my own personal collection of SNES games, I've had to replace the batteries on 3 games (FF2, FF3, and Sim City). I'll have to check how many games I own with battery backups in order to know what percentage that ends up being.

I think it's a little silly to suggest that the average Retrogaming Roundtable regular would only own three carts with batteries. I admit that that topic doesn't give the full answer. I linked to it simply because I think it's worthwhile to take a look at it, not because I'm using it as a reference for a thesis paper or something. I can't be bothered to dig up every single topic on this board that addresses the number of dead batteries people have come across and then look up other topics where they share the total number of games they own and what systems they collect for. You still have not been a member of this board for all that long, so I can understand if you don't know those members from a hole in the ground. However, when you've been around for years like me, you start to get a general idea of the size of the collections of the regulars and what systems they go after. Not counting newbies, I'd say the average regular has hundreds of games, with many who have 1000+, and even a small number of members with multiple thousands. Most have pretty broad collections in terms of eras and systems too, so most would definitely have plenty of carts with batteries unless they completely avoided the 8-bit and 16-bit generations (and later handheld releases). Remember that this is a forum for collectors, so big collections are par for the course.

What you're saying about your experience only seems to collaborate with the other experiences. Roughly a similar amount of games, with roughly the same tiny number of dead batteries. With how you were talking before, I expected you to say that you've dealt with a whole bunch, but three out of hundreds of battery backup games is pretty good as far as I'm concerned and goes along with my whole sentiment that dead batteries are nothing to worry about because the vast majority still work.

[Akov456]

What angers me is that my Actraiser cart still saves with no problem but my Ocarina of time cart which was released about six years later won't hold a save, argh!

[Gameguy]

What angers me is that my Actraiser cart still saves with no problem but my Ocarina of time cart which was released about six years later won't hold a save, argh!
It can depend on how the carts were stored, the temperature and dampness of the environment can affect the battery life. I've come across at least a dozen copies of Zelda for the NES over the years and so far every copy still saves, this game is the first game to ever use a save battery so these batteries are among the oldest.

More recently most copies of Pokemon Silver or Pokemon Gold I've come across have dead batteries, these games used real-time clocks so the batteries don't last all that long. I actually avoid buying copies of these games unless I know that they still save properly.

I also have a copy of Sonic 3 that doesn't save, it doesn't even use a battery so it can't be fixed. It uses a type of flash memory.

[wiggyx]

Ocarina doesn't use a battery for backup, so something else is going on there :(


I think it's a little silly to suggest that the average Retrogaming Roundtable regular would only own three carts with batteries. I admit that that topic doesn't give the full answer. I linked to it simply because I think it's worthwhile to take a look at it, not because I'm using it as a reference for a thesis paper or something. I can't be bothered to dig up every single topic on this board that addresses the number of dead batteries people have come across and then look up other topics where they share the total number of games they own and what systems they collect for. You still have not been a member of this board for all that long, so I can understand if you don't know those members from a hole in the ground. However, when you've been around for years like me, you start to get a general idea of the size of the collections of the regulars and what systems they go after. Not counting newbies, I'd say the average regular has hundreds of games, with many who have 1000+, and even a small number of members with multiple thousands. Most have pretty broad collections in terms of eras and systems too, so most would definitely have plenty of carts with batteries unless they completely avoided the 8-bit and 16-bit generations (and later handheld releases). Remember that this is a forum for collectors, so big collections are par for the course.

What you're saying about your experience only seems to collaborate with the other experiences. Roughly a similar amount of games, with roughly the same tiny number of dead batteries. With how you were talking before, I expected you to say that you've dealt with a whole bunch, but three out of hundreds of battery backup games is pretty good as far as I'm concerned and goes along with my whole sentiment that dead batteries are nothing to worry about because the vast majority still work.

I'm well aware that many members have massive collections. Having hundreds/thousands of games doesn't mean that you're aware of just how many still have functional batteries. I severely doubt that most folks with 1000+ game collections actually play them often enough to know exactly how many of their games still have functional batteries.

I never said 3 out of hundreds that I own. I said 3 out of ???. I would have to check how many of my SNES games have battery backups. I own about 220 SNES games, and I doubt that even a quarter of them have battery backups. I'll do a rough count here in a bit...

[Akov456]

It can depend on how the carts were stored, the temperature and dampness of the environment can affect the battery life. I've come across at least a dozen copies of Zelda for the NES over the years and so far every copy still saves, this game is the first game to ever use a save battery so these batteries are among the oldest.

More recently most copies of Pokemon Silver or Pokemon Gold I've come across have dead batteries, these games used real-time clocks so the batteries don't last all that long. I actually avoid buying copies of these games unless I know that they still save properly.

I also have a copy of Sonic 3 that doesn't save, it doesn't even use a battery so it can't be fixed. It uses a type of flash memory.

That makes a lot of sense. I'd always thought it was manufacture error, like being cheap and using an inferior product. Ill have to be more careful from now on.

[RP2A03]

Ocarina doesn't use a battery for backup, so something else is going on there :(

Actually, it does. http://n64.icequake.net/mirror/www.elitendo.com/n64/usa_boot_save_faq.html#s5

It's Majora's Mask that that uses flash.

[Aussie2B]

Ocarina doesn't use a battery for backup, so something else is going on there :(



I'm well aware that many members have massive collections. Having hundreds/thousands of games doesn't mean that you're aware of just how many still have functional batteries. I severely doubt that most folks with 1000+ game collections actually play them often enough to know exactly how many of their games still have functional batteries.

I never said 3 out of hundreds that I own. I said 3 out of ???. I would have to check how many of my SNES games have battery backups. I own about 220 SNES games, and I doubt that even a quarter of them have battery backups. I'll do a rough count here in a bit...

"my experience having handled and tested hundreds of NES/SNES/Genesis games with battery backups"

You said yourself that you have experience with hundreds of game batteries, and then you said you've encountered three dead batteries. If that wasn't the complete list of dead batteries you've encountered out of the games you've tested, then you weren't very clear about that. So how many dead batteries in total have you encountered?

Anyway, it's silly to suggest that collectors need to continuously test every battery they own. Most collectors will test out a cart when they acquire it to see if it works, and if you see a file already on it, you know that the battery is still working and holding files. Simple as that. Granted, that isn't a perfect test because the saves may have all been deleted on purpose, so unless you make your own save and check on it later, there's no knowing if it's a working battery with no saves or a dead battery. From my experience, though, and from the experience of other collectors, it's WAY more common to get a used game that still has somebody's old file. Yes, some batteries may die long after a game has been acquired and if it doesn't get played for a long while, the collector may be unaware that it has died, but, seriously, realistically, how many is this going to add up to? We already know that batteries aren't dying in droves and that even the oldest of batteries are still holding up in the vast majority of cases, so we're talking instead of the, say, two dead batteries that a collector has knowingly encountered, they may have four dead batteries, with two still unknown. Even if you DOUBLE the numbers, they're still very small. And, realistically, the number should be less than double because, as collectors, we store and maintain our games better typically than the conditions they were in prior to our purchase, so way more dead batteries should be discovered after that initial purchase.

And yeah, you don't even have your information on Ocarina of Time right, so I'm questioning all the more your notion that your experience with game batteries trumps the collective experience of many Retrogaming Roundtable members.

[wiggyx]

"my experience having handled and tested hundreds of NES/SNES/Genesis games with battery backups"

You said yourself that you have experience with hundreds of game batteries, and then you said you've encountered three dead batteries. If that wasn't the complete list of dead batteries you've encountered out of the games you've tested, then you weren't very clear about that. So how many dead batteries in total have you encountered?



Again, to be clear, I'm not at all saying its common, but just that it's very likely a lot less uncommon than you're exclaiming based on my experience having handled and tested hundreds of NES/SNES/Genesis games with battery backups. I can say that, in my own personal collection of SNES games, I've had to replace the batteries on 3 games (FF2, FF3, and Sim City). I'll have to check how many games I own with battery backups in order to know what percentage that ends up being.

Those are two mutually exclusive statements. One reflects my total experience with battery backup games and the other is referring only to my current personal collection.

Again, I've done battery swaps in both a professional capacity, as well as for my own personal collection.



Anyway, it's silly to suggest that collectors need to continuously test every battery they own.

I NEVER said that they should, but rather that they most likely haven't, and thus likely don't have a complete knowledge of how many dead batteries may be in their collections.



Yes, some batteries may die long after a game has been acquired and if it doesn't get played for a long while, the collector may be unaware that it has died, but, seriously, realistically, how many is this going to add up to?

I don't know, and neither do most collectors unless they're checking them with any regularity, which was exactly my point.



And yeah, you don't even have your information on Ocarina of Time right, so I'm questioning all the more your notion that your experience with game batteries trumps the collective experience of many Retrogaming Roundtable members.

Right, that totally invalidates my experience. Confusing one Zelda's method of saving with another :roll:

This actually only further validates my point (that batteries die more often than you might think).

[Aussie2B]

What further validates your point? That one guy has one dead Ocarina of Time battery?

This is just getting dumb. You're splicing my posts and replying to things out of context, leaving out relevant bits that already counter what you're saying, and I'm not going to bother repeating what you should have already read.

If you're offering a battery replacement service, that's not useful information in terms of determining a percentage. You're only getting dead batteries doing that, so unless these people are also sharing how many games they have in total, there's nothing to be learned. Also, are you actually confirming that these batteries are dead, or do you merely replace a battery when someone sends in a cart for battery replacement? Because there's a lot of paranoia out there that makes fledgling collectors feel that they must replace preemptively and there's a lot of ignorance regarding proper maintenance which causes save files to disappear or appear to be gone when the battery is actually still functional.

Again I ask, how many dead batteries have you encountered out of how many battery backup games? I'm not even asking for precise numbers here. Give us a ballpark figure. If you can't even offer that, then you haven't even begun to demonstrate how your singular experience trumps the collective experiences of many. I'm sorry, but you're not a special and unique butterfly. There are other people here who have handled just as many games and have just as much know-how, if not more so, so I don't believe that you have this wealth of experience that is so far beyond all of the rest of us, especially when combining the experiences of many of us who have a lot of experience even individually.

[eskobar]

I can talk about my experience with dead batteries !.

I sell vintage games online in México and I have sold more than 3,000 nes/snes/gb/gbc/gba games since 2006. Dead batteries are very common in México, I am not sure why is this, and not only Pokemon carts have dead batteries, also snes and game boy advance games.

I have more than 50 carts sitting on my home because I don't want to sell them with a dead battery. I have changed a few batteries using electric tape only and they are working but I really need to start soldering the batteries :puppydogeyes:

[Rickstilwell1]

I've seen far more dead Game Boy batteries than anything else, with Super Nintendo being the runner-up. The only dead NES battery I have seen was one in a yard sale copy of Zelda that had its contacts corroded. I imagine the amount of data being saved to the battery makes a difference in how long it takes for its life to drain. That combined with power surges caused by the system itself when powering on and off. Remember "HOLD RESET WHILE TURNING THE POWER OFF" ? The Game Boy does not have a reset button. Oops Nintendo!

[SparTonberry]

It's likely the Game Boy was designed to not need to reset the console for the battery to work.
Never had an issue with saves disappearing on any of my Game Boy games.

Same with SNES, although I have found a couple JP-only games that still had a "reset" warning.

[Tanooki]

You know in all these years since Zelda popped up I've never done the reset recommendation to save. Why? Because never isn't exactly true, I've tried doing it exactly twice, and in BOTH cases the game lost my save (Zelda and Dragon Warrior something forget which one from 1-3.) It soured me to it and I never have done it since. I get you could get a surge turning it off, but I've never had it happen. Devices later were produced with more protection internally and of just better quality parts and don't suffer the issue of frying saves on carts.

I've come across not one dead GB battery ever, one for GBA at a flea so I left it (pokemon ruby or something like that), and then one copy of Crystalis which I got stupid cheap (and annoyingly still have), and then two water damaged internally games that looks top notch outside - Smash Bros N64 and Punchout SNES and even battery replacement still wouldn't resurrect them.

[xelement5x]

I've seen a lot of dead GB batteries, but mainly just Pokemon carts. I used to replace them locally for some cash on the side but after I finished up my last stock of them I stopped doing it because so many people would email me asking to replace their battery for free and then flagging my CL ad when I refused. It wasn't worth the hassle for me to continue doing it for most folks, so I'll just keep my bench full with my own projects instead.

[Tanooki]

The reason on a majority of the pokemon games comes down to the real time clock eating the battery alive after just a few years or so. You'll find a percentage between all the GBC and GBA games where the titles with a battery and the RTC or without one will have a vastly different failure rate.

[wiggyx]

You know in all these years since Zelda popped up I've never done the reset recommendation to save. Why? Because never isn't exactly true, I've tried doing it exactly twice, and in BOTH cases the game lost my save (Zelda and Dragon Warrior something forget which one from 1-3.) It soured me to it and I never have done it since. I get you could get a surge turning it off, but I've never had it happen. Devices later were produced with more protection internally and of just better quality parts and don't suffer the issue of frying saves on carts.

I've come across not one dead GB battery ever, one for GBA at a flea so I left it (pokemon ruby or something like that), and then one copy of Crystalis which I got stupid cheap (and annoyingly still have), and then two water damaged internally games that looks top notch outside - Smash Bros N64 and Punchout SNES and even battery replacement still wouldn't resurrect them.

I can't count how many times I had to start my Zelda game over as a child (I purchased the game at launch when there was no reset warning). Wasn't until years later that I learned about that trick, which always works for me.

I think the power switch itself was the issue with the toaster NES iirc.

[Tanooki]

Maybe it does. I'd like to think they built the thing as cheaply and poorly as possible to pass the US law standards for electronics not knowing if it would bomb or not, and when it exploded on the scene they just mass printed the crappy design until the point the top loader came to market after the SNES appeared which doesn't have that issue just like the GB from 89 doesn't either.

I just know any time I did what they told me I lost data so I just don't do it.

[SparTonberry]

Well actually were there any battery-backup cart games on any console prior to the NES launch in 1985 (let alone the Famicom in 1983)? I guess you couldn't blame them too much for a feature that may not have existed yet.

(the earliest I know of is Famicom BASIC, released that same year. But I don't know how well that held up, I think it actually used AAs in a compartment on the cart.
The earliest FC game I know of with a standard backup battery was Mirai Shinwa Jarvas, released June 30, 1987, so within a month before the US version of The Legend of Zelda which is often called the first battery-backup cart game.)

[Rickstilwell1]

Actually most of the dead battery GB carts I have seen were Link's Awakening or Pokémon Red/Blue/Yellow. None of which have real time clocks. Of course that could also be that those were the games that were taken everywhere and for extended periods of time, including camping. It could be more from the extreme temperature changes. I've seen a few Donkey Kong Country 3 carts for SNES with dead batteries too though.

[Tanooki]

You're onto something there with that one comment. Going everywhere. Some people don't share, they play and store, some will play every few years, and others yet will beat something to death yearly or more than that. Some live in a desert, some live in a swamp, the beach.

ENVIRONMENT will jack a battery faster or slower depending on what it is (humid, dry, salty, spills). But outside of that you still have to factor in what drains the battery from RTC's to how often someone will hit the thing by saving another time to the cart too.

[BlastProcessing402]

I can't count how many times I had to start my Zelda game over as a child (I purchased the game at launch when there was no reset warning). Wasn't until years later that I learned about that trick, which always works for me.

I think the power switch itself was the issue with the toaster NES iirc.

I never had Zelda lose one of my saves regardless if I used the reset button or not. I played through the whole game before they even started telling people to hold reset (first run copies like mine had no such warnings). Still, once battery games started coming with the warning I started doing it. Became such a habit I tend to do it with games that don't even have batteries, LOL

[wiggyx]

The inconsistency between each system is likely why the warning didn't appear on the first run of carts (NOA probably just didn't have the issues that others like myself did when testing). You and Tanook had no issues, but mine wiped out the save almost every other time I turned off the system. It was maddening at the time.

[Niku-Sama]

I've never come across a dead backup battery in a game before, it must be my electric personality or something. so I think yalls is crazy.

I know it'll happen some day though, which reminds me that I need to hunt down my pokemon blue cart and save bob from being lost to dead batteries