The VGA is now slabbing open CIB games!?

[understatement]

So I came across these today.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harvest-Moon-Super-Nintendo-SNES-Complete-in-Box-VGA-Q85-Qualified-/130873213099?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1e78a6c0ab

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrono-Trigger-Super-Nintendo-SNES-Complete-in-Box-VGA-Q80-Qualified-/130873213093?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1e78a6c0a5

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6529&d=1366040179

Now I think most of the stuff that’s said about the VGA has some merit.

[ProjectCamaro]

So I came across these today.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harvest-Moon-Super-Nintendo-SNES-Complete-in-Box-VGA-Q85-Qualified-/130873213099?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1e78a6c0ab

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrono-Trigger-Super-Nintendo-SNES-Complete-in-Box-VGA-Q80-Qualified-/130873213093?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1e78a6c0a5

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6529&d=1366040179

Now I think most of the stuff that’s said about the VGA has some merit.

Wow, that's pretty rough for their 80+ score.

[theclaw]

Not exactly. Being open demoted them to qualified.

[Xander]

I hope someday someone will start thinking there is a market for fake VGA slabbed games.

[bb_hood]

So, why would someone spend 600-1000 for one of these when they can buy a mint one for much cheaper and get it slabbed themselves.
I can KINDA understand getting sealed games graded, but opened games??? Just a waste of money

[wiggyx]

Ugh. That's all I can muster for this crap.

[ZP3]

Honestly, can someone explain to me the point of having games graded?

[Bojay1997]

Honestly, can someone explain to me the point of having games graded?

Same as any other collectible. It's a third party that assigns a purportedly objective grade to the item assuring the buyer of what they are getting. I personally wouldn't ever have a game graded or buy a graded game, but it does serve some purpose for some collectors.

[understatement]

Are they grading just the outer box or everything as a whole? They say “Qualified Grading” is for opened packages with new contents but there’s no way to know that, as pointed out with the wear and tear on that Chrono Trigger from what looks like the box being opened and closed there’s just no way that game inside is new. Then does it even have everything in it? This is a question that comes up with the sealed grading and I usually just put it off as some kind of conspiracy theory but here it seems plausible, maybe not VGA stealing games and manuals but what if the guy grading doesn’t know that the game came with a poster or something.

[Parodius Duh!]

All the more reason to start my "Case Crackers" Youtube series....


Ive been buying new/sealed ps1 games for the past two years and opening them cause the main reason is Im anal about disc condition, also the thought of "this game can never be entombed now!" was an extra pleasantry.

Now I just need to buy the graded games and crack them open. Meh, at least Ill know Ill be getting a used game with a flawless disc now. :)


I dont get all this VGA, AFA, CGC BS. Well maybe CGC cause your dealing with paper products, but everything else? come on.....it just ruins the hobbies and makes prices go up. Oh sweet your paying an extra few hundred for a little sticker that certifies the lords of dork planet have seen it and looked it over! cause thats all youre really paying for, and who has certified them as experts anyway? they went to video game graders college? Got their masters in Star Wars figure condition? Come on....

[Polygon]

Ugh. That's all I can muster for this crap.

Yep, pretty much.

[jonebone]

I'd guess that at least 50% of sealed VGA collectors like myself think Qualified grading is pretty stupid. Maybe even higher, but there are some people that buy into it. Mostly ones who like to flip at a profit.

They've been doing Q grading for a couple of years now though, this isn't new. As stated, it's supposed to be a "New / unused" CIB, not just any normal complete in box game. So it has to have all inserts and supposedly they look at the contacts for any signs of being inserted into a system... if there's wear, it won't get graded.

I've never subbed or owned a Q game so I can't comment any further about their grading process though. I don't understand the purpose of slabbing a CIB, but apparently some people like it.

[fergojisan]

M - o - n - e - y

[Daltone]

I hope someday someone will start thinking there is a market for fake VGA slabbed games.

Are they given any sort of unique serial code that you can punch in to check your slab of doom is legit? I've probably got the equipment in work to make a fake, although I don't know how passable it would be without having a good look at one of their slabs. I wonder if I could (just for the sake of curiosity) make something that looks sort of like a VGA slab. Hmm..

[Xander]

Are they given any sort of unique serial code that you can punch in to check your slab of doom is legit? I've probably got the equipment in work to make a fake, although I don't know how passable it would be without having a good look at one of their slabs. I wonder if I could (just for the sake of curiosity) make something that looks sort of like a VGA slab. Hmm..

I was more thinking of criminals doing it, not us/me :) Whoever get caught doing this will most probably get some lawyer love.

As for the label, well you have some pretty detailed picture available for VGA slabbed games. For example in the original message you can see a pretty close up view of the chrono Trigger game (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Chrono-Trigger-Super-Nintendo-SNES-Complete-in-Box-VGA-Q80-Qualified-/00/s/MTIyN1gxNjAw/$(KGrHqZHJEUFC,!SnSuQBQtP(8(kFw~~60_57.JPG). That shining circle might be used as a unique ID, altho it might also just be some kind of seal from VGA.

If you look at this close up (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Chrono-Trigger-Super-Nintendo-SNES-Complete-in-Box-VGA-Q80-Qualified-/00/s/MTA2NlgxNjAw/$T2eC16VHJHIE9nyseF5YBQtPYEJP7Q~~60_57.JPG) there is a barcode under what look like a unique ID. All in all it does not seem like a scheme that is hard to break for someone who know about those things. I guess I could slab a CT in a similar condition and just copy the unique ID and barcode. Unless someone with the same ID and barcode notice the auction, I don't see many way to this can be detected as a fake.

[understatement]

Are they given any sort of unique serial code that you can punch in to check your slab of doom is legit? I've probably got the equipment in work to make a fake, although I don't know how passable it would be without having a good look at one of their slabs. I wonder if I could (just for the sake of curiosity) make something that looks sort of like a VGA slab. Hmm..


If you’re able to do it, I think a parody VGA slab would be better. Now that they do open boxes it wouldn’t take much to get a raggedy old game box and jack around with their label/ letter callouts. I know I wouldn’t mind having something like that to display.

[Daltone]

I was more thinking of criminals doing it, not us/me :) Whoever get caught doing this will most probably get some lawyer love.

I was thinking of doing it for my own amusement more than anything else. I like the idea of putting the world's most mangled copy of duck hunt inside one! (as has been suggested above). However - I've been looking around on youtube at videos of people showing close ups of the boxes and I don't think I could get the details with what we've got (sorry guys!) I could probably make a clear box with an internal 'frame' but it looks like there are some rounded corners there.

If you were doing this for dubious purposes you could probably sell something like that to someone who doesn't know any better.

[skaar]

If you were doing this for dubious purposes you could probably sell something like that to someone who doesn't know any better.

http://i.imgur.com/NAndMP4.jpg

[tom]

Yep, and some people are even to try and sell them in the UK
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atari-2600-Graded-Authentic-Texas-Chainsaw-Massacre-Complete-VGA-UKG-80-NM-/200906887001?pt=UK_PC_Video_Games_Video_Games_JS&hash=item2ec6fbcf59

[understatement]

Yep, and some people are even to try and sell them in the UK
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atari-2600-Graded-Authentic-Texas-Chainsaw-Massacre-Complete-VGA-UKG-80-NM-/200906887001?pt=UK_PC_Video_Games_Video_Games_JS&hash=item2ec6fbcf59

At least that layout makes sense for an opened game.

[Griking]

I hope someday someone will start thinking there is a market for fake VGA slabbed games.


That was my first thought when I saw this.

[Graham Mitchell]

All the more reason to start my "Case Crackers" Youtube series....


Ive been buying new/sealed ps1 games for the past two years and opening them cause the main reason is Im anal about disc condition, also the thought of "this game can never be entombed now!" was an extra pleasantry.

Now I just need to buy the graded games and crack them open. Meh, at least Ill know Ill be getting a used game with a flawless disc now. :)

..

I would donate to this cause.

[Daltone]

Has anyone ever read the dislclaimer on the bottom of the certificates?!

http://s687.photobucket.com/user/beniboi25/media/VGA%20GRADED%20ITEMS/DSC01865_zpsbf9c8050.jpg.html#/user/beniboi25/media/VGA%20GRADED%20ITEMS/DSC01863_zps24be6331.jpg.html?&_suid=136618830317704897308043861412

"[Findings] are based on significant knowledge and research in most cases and represent our best attempt.. etc."

"VGA [etc] shall in no event be responsible for, or demed to have made, any guarantees, warranties, or representations, express or implied, whether regarding genuineness, authorship, attribution, provenance, , culture, souce, origin or condition , with respect to the item described herein including, without limitation, any verbal statements made by the VGA either before or after this certificate was issued."

" certificate of authenticity the customer releases the VGA from all liability and damages [arising out of this certificate]."

[b] [u] To summarise:

1. Most, but not all of the time, we will use someone with either "significant knowledge" of the subject and we may research it. "Significant knowledge" could mean anything. For example - I know more about the NES than the kids who live next door. Compared to them my knowledge is "significant". The sentence could also be read two ways. You could read it "(significant knowledge and research) in most cases", or you coul read it "significant knowledge (and research in most cases)". It is horribly worded. I would have been smacked down if I tried to draft something like that.

2. Nothing we say is worth anything, even though we claim we say we are rating based on condition etc. We are not responsible for what we have written or may say.

3. We provide a "Certificate of Authenticity". Presumably they are saying that this certificate shows that the rated game has been rated by the VGA (as is therefore an authentically rated VGA game), NOT that the game its self is authentic. They can't be confirming that the game its self is authentic because of #2. Finally - you have no comeback if we have got it completely wrong.

[Bojay1997]

Has anyone ever read the dislclaimer on the bottom of the certificates?!

http://s687.photobucket.com/user/beniboi25/media/VGA%20GRADED%20ITEMS/DSC01865_zpsbf9c8050.jpg.html#/user/beniboi25/media/VGA%20GRADED%20ITEMS/DSC01863_zps24be6331.jpg.html?&_suid=136618830317704897308043861412

"[Findings] are based on significant knowledge and research in most cases and represent our best attempt.. etc."

"VGA [etc] shall in no event be responsible for, or demed to have made, any guarantees, warranties, or representations, express or implied, whether regarding genuineness, authorship, attribution, provenance, , culture, souce, origin or condition , with respect to the item described herein including, without limitation, any verbal statements made by the VGA either before or after this certificate was issued."

" certificate of authenticity the customer releases the VGA from all liability and damages [arising out of this certificate]."

[b] [u] To summarise:

1. Most, but not all of the time, we will use someone with either "significant knowledge" of the subject and we may research it. "Significant knowledge" could mean anything. For example - I know more about the NES than the kids who live next door. Compared to them my knowledge is "significant". The sentence could also be read two ways. You could read it "(significant knowledge and research) in most cases", or you coul read it "significant knowledge (and research in most cases)". It is horribly worded. I would have been smacked down if I tried to draft something like that.

2. Nothing we say is worth anything, even though we claim we say we are rating based on condition etc. We are not responsible for what we have written or may say.

3. We provide a "Certificate of Authenticity". Presumably they are saying that this certificate shows that the rated game has been rated by the VGA (as is therefore an authentically rated VGA game), NOT that the game its self is authentic. They can't be confirming that the game its self is authentic because of #2. Finally - you have no comeback if we have got it completely wrong.

I hate to break it to you, but every grading company, even very respected and established ones in fields like historical documents and coins have a very similar disclaimer. Ultimately, grading companies have nothing but their reputation and track record to stand on. My understanding is that VGA has a pretty good record thus far with catching re-seals and staying pretty consistent in their ratings. Of course, that could all change at any time.

[skaar]

I hate to break it to you, but every grading company, even very respected and established ones in fields like historical documents and coins have a very similar disclaimer. Ultimately, grading companies have nothing but their reputation and track record to stand on. My understanding is that VGA has a pretty good record thus far with catching re-seals and staying pretty consistent in their ratings. Of course, that could all change at any time.

... like if one single person was willing to take a serious cash risk and open a game they'd paid a service to evaluate and grade, debunk the system and make everyone else's games worth way less than the skyrocketing prices they're commanding these days off "investment" collectors?

Yes, that'll happen soon I bet.

And everyone'll be sooooooooo happy.

[Daltone]

I hate to break it to you, but every grading company, even very respected and established ones in fields like historical documents and coins have a very similar disclaimer. Ultimately, grading companies have nothing but their reputation and track record to stand on. My understanding is that VGA has a pretty good record thus far with catching re-seals and staying pretty consistent in their ratings. Of course, that could all change at any time.

I've never used a grading company before (and, let's face it, I probably never will). That is a hell of a disclaimer.

[wiggyx]

^^^ that's a pretty standard disclaimer. Its doing what it's meant to do; (attmept to) absolve the issuer of pretty much an responsibility (which disclaimers aren't really very good at doing).

[Bojay1997]

... like if one single person was willing to take a serious cash risk and open a game they'd paid a service to evaluate and grade, debunk the system and make everyone else's games worth way less than the skyrocketing prices they're commanding these days off "investment" collectors?

Yes, that'll happen soon I bet.

And everyone'll be sooooooooo happy.

I'm not following this line of thought at all. What I was alluding to is that if the people buying and selling VGA stuff become disillusioned because VGA becomes less consistent or lets resealed items slip through their system, you will have a pretty sharp crash in the value of VGA graded stuff. There were a couple of coin grading services that had this issue in the 1970s and 80s and collectors essentially refused to recognize their grades. Let's be honest, VGA is a niche of a niche anyway, and I would be shocked if there were more than a few hundred serious VGA collectors out there, so it wouldn't take much to bring the whole bubble down.