The 2013 Disc Rot/Label Damage thread

[Archimboldi]

I did search and saw it has been discussed a few times on Digitpress, but I thought I'd make the 2013 edition.

As you guessed, I just got linked to this:
http://www.rfgeneration.com/news/Disc-Rot/An-important-note-to-Video-Game-Sellers-and-Buyers-1337.php


I can't say I'm too convinced of "rot," in a lot of these cases--- as in, the label degrading on its own from age as detailed in the article. It seems like it could just as easily be that occasional drop taking out a tiny part of the label...we all drop discs once in a while. We also buy used crap and never thought to check the discs. People are citing the pinholes of light as "rot" but those seem like nicks on the surface from being dropped.

I'm just wondering if anyone here who has read this article in the past monitored some of their games for this?

I'm currently checking everything...all 114 of my PS1 games. So far, just one has the pinholes of light-- Persona 2, which I just got in the mail today and can be returned (and which was getting returned anyway because it wasn't within a mile of "Like New" Mr. Amazon Seller.) But this is on both discs and they look like they've seen a few refurbishing machines, so I have my doubts it occurred naturally.

Another thought is dried up refurbishing fluid flaking off and taking off some label with it as a possible cause. You often see that grey shit globbed up on poorly resurfaced games.

In any case, whether it's rot, mistreatment or what, holding up a game to the light is a condition check I wasn't doing before and now I'll be doing it for everything. It's easy enough to return on Ebay and Amazon.


Lastly-- could this be a case for those clear plastic stickers on labels? They're there forever and are a ding on the game's condition, but label protection could get important as these games age. Couldn't ever take it off, but maybe it'll help the game last longer?

[Ed Oscuro]

Ah, I just bumped the old blowing on NES cartridges thread. I wonder what else could be posted about to form an unholy trifecta of little-understood (and possibly little-important) effects...Silverfish vs. Game Boxes and Manuals: The Epic Battle? I'd say plastics versus UV and RetroBrite, but the chemistry of that is pretty well known.

I thought it was well agreed that the quality of the enamel covering on CDs is what causes disc rot, and that it's not likely to be seen on modern CDs unless they are very badly made.

Anyway, interesting post there - only one photo of evidence though.

I've also discovered, in a couple seconds, a potential problem with the author's method of hole detection: At least some discs will have only a partially opaque (light-blocking; in this case, it's semi-transparent) disc covering. I haven't tested the disc, but I have no reason to suspect it's a problem: The copy of Hyper Duel sitting on a stack here with some other console disc games will let light from the LED lamp (a type with color closer to the older incandescent bulbs, although the brighter blues should work even better - this is another point on which I can quibble with the author; shorter-wavelength light makes small details easier to see, and many CFLs - already technology on the outs - use shorter-wavelength light than incandescent lights, and many are also "brighter" as well). Seeing the outlines of the robot and the words "Hyper Duel" doesn't mean there's huge data holes; it just means that's the way the disc is.

I doubt the "holes" are completely transparent here, either.

The article's advice about covering the middle hole to protect your eyes is strange too. Obviously you shouldn't look at bright lights, but just hold the disc segments inbetween your eyes so that the disc surface covers the entire light (from your eye's perspective). This allows you to hold the disc edge, which is probably still the preferred method of handling them (I dunno, maybe acids from your fingertips can etch the edges of the disc layers? lol).

[Gameguy]

Lastly-- could this be a case for those clear plastic stickers on labels? They're there forever and are a ding on the game's condition, but label protection could get important as these games age. Couldn't ever take it off, but maybe it'll help the game last longer?
Those can throw off the balance of the disc so they won't play properly in drives anymore, or at least could make them harder for the drive to read. Plus on some drives they can cause the discs to get stuck. Those plastic protectors might even be acidic and would damage the disc over time, I wouldn't use them at all.

I don't like anything added to the disc, I don't like those sticker labels added to burned discs either.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, total agreement there. I think that most adhesives have the potential to break down into acidic components. Maybe neutral pH adhesives could be used, but I don't know if they'd be clear...and again, like laminating posters, any step that "preserves" an artifact by covering it with something you can't take off should be used only sparingly, if at all.

[Archimboldi]

I figured those things had some other bad side effect and they would ruin the nice finish on some of these PS1 discs.

And yeah, the article's logic doesn't exactly hold up. He thinks he bought "disc rot" games from "all over the country" when he probably just got mistreated games and on top of that, no long term updates or anything about his discs degrading further (which is mainly why I'm making this thread, to see if anyone has done that.) But I do think holes are holes in this case-- I have some translucent games, but the one that looks like the disc in the article looks like a lite-brite or something.

[Polygon]

I've seen pin holes in the silk screen of many audio CDs, but never game discs. I know what caused it on the audio CDs. It was from leaving them in those blasted CD wallets in a hot car. Then you pull out the disc, which is now stuck to the plastic. I've never seen it happen to any disc left in the case but I've seen it happen to countless CDs in those damn wallets.

[Archimboldi]

I've seen pin holes in the silk screen of many audio CDs, but never game discs. I know what caused it on the audio CDs. It was from leaving them in those blasted CD wallets in a hot car. Then you pull out the disc, which is now stuck to the plastic. I've never seen it happen to any disc left in the case but I've seen it happen to countless CDs in those damn wallets.


heh, yeah in the days of having massive books of CDs, most of mine got ruined in the year I lived in Arizona.

[Zing]

Yes, I had dozens of music CDs get ruined from the CD binder in my car. The label layer got the pinholes.

I check every disc game I buy for pinholes. I hold them up to the light.

[A.C. Sativa]

We also buy used crap and never thought to check the discs.

Who's "we"? Because any time I buy anything on disc (game, DVD, CD) used I sure as hell check the disc before I hand over any money, and if it's something expensive the seller better hook up a system and let me see if it works.

Anyway, I've found that "bit rot" is usually caused by the console damaging the disc, not people dropping them or things like that. I had so many problems with the big PS2 tearing up my games (or refusing to read them) that I gave up on Sony and became an X-Box man, and I haven't looked back. Though I will say that while I've never experienced any problems with it, I've heard that the white 360 is notorious for beating up on the games.

[Archimboldi]

Who's "we"? Because any time I buy anything on disc (game, DVD, CD) used I sure as hell check the disc before I hand over any money, and if it's something expensive the seller better hook up a system and let me see if it works.




I meant check the discs for pinhole marks on the top by holding it up to the light and a lot of people buy online where you can't check first.

[Gameguy]

Anyway, I've found that "bit rot" is usually caused by the console damaging the disc, not people dropping them or things like that.
I think you're confusing bit rot with scratches or just general damage. Bit rot is more caused by manufacturing errors or poorly manufactured discs made with poor quality materials, over time these will fall apart or oxidize even if you keep them stored properly and don't use them. If a disc is manufactured properly with proper materials, they can last decades or over a century without problems if stored well. Keep any disc in extreme heat or in damp environments and they'll develop problems.

[Ed Oscuro]

When I used a Thompson drive-equipped Xbox, I saw a lot of circular scratches - that wasn't just a Sony-specific thing really.

[Bubble_Man]

Brought this thread up while doing a google search on pinholes. I'm not really sure what causes them. I've kept my game collection in a dimly lit room, handled them very gently and kept them at room temperature (except on one occasion when the heat spiked due to a heater I wasn't familiar with using). I have several discs with pinholes, but there is no clear pattern about which are more prone to it. I have Saturn/Dreamcast games that look perfect and PS3 games with pinholes. My worst specimen is Arkham City (ps3), which is heavily infested with them.