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The 1 2 P
05-21-2013, 01:08 PM
We Finally have a title, which is apparently short for all-in-one system. The console was shown in full but the presentation was light on several details. We now have to wait for E3 for further info.

Greg2600
05-21-2013, 01:10 PM
That is the worst console name in video game history. How can you name your THIRD console ONE? Now when we go to search the original XBOX it's going to be mixed in with this one. Unbelievably stupid.

The 1 2 P
05-21-2013, 01:13 PM
That is the worst console name in video game history. How can you name your THIRD console ONE? Now when we go to search the original XBOX it's going to be mixed in with this one. Unbelievably stupid.

That made me LOL. It is a weird ass name for their third system.

Red Warrior
05-21-2013, 01:19 PM
That is the worst console name in video game history. How can you name your THIRD console ONE? Now when we go to search the original XBOX it's going to be mixed in with this one. Unbelievably stupid.

I agree that the name seems pretty stupid, but have you forgotten about Wii already? I love Nintendo, but the name "Wii" is still the all time most ridiculous name for a console in history.

Vinnysdad
05-21-2013, 01:21 PM
Not liking this One at all. It looks like a cable or satellite receiver box

VG_Maniac
05-21-2013, 01:37 PM
And I thought Nintendo was dumb for naming their new system "Wii U"...but I think the name "XBOX One" is even worse. What is their reasoning behind naming their third console "ONE"?

Xian042
05-21-2013, 01:42 PM
And I thought Nintendo was dumb for naming their new system "Wii U"...but I think the name "XBOX One" is even worse. What is their reasoning behind naming their third console "ONE"?

xbox reboot

xbox is the only "one" you need

kinect, internet, TV, games, all in "one"

JakeM
05-21-2013, 01:44 PM
This is going to cause many many normal gamers to be very confused in later years when getting into collecting and retro gaming.

Guess this thread is just about the name, not about the whole event like the other thread.

The 1 2 P
05-21-2013, 01:48 PM
I wanted Alan Wake 2 but I'll gladly take Quantum Break for now because the Xbox could use some more exclusive series. Plus I love Remedy. Also looking forward to the new live action Halo tv series.

The 1 2 P
05-21-2013, 01:52 PM
xbox reboot

xbox is the only "one" you need

kinect, internet, TV, games, all in "one"

Yeah now I get it because Don Mattrick pretty much repeated what you just said. The "One" stands for all-in-one or only one.

Greg2600
05-21-2013, 01:53 PM
Not liking this One at all. It looks like a cable or satellite receiver box

Well that what it is after all.

Tupin
05-21-2013, 01:55 PM
Already has jokes flying around, with all of the nongame stuff they've sbown: "Xbox One- Exactly how many they'll sell."

The 1 2 P
05-21-2013, 02:12 PM
This reveal was short but sweet. I didn't expect the launch price or exact date but I atleast wanted more details about my XBL account. We'll obviously be able to transfer them over to the new console but will our achievements and gamer score migrate as well? What about our 360 DLC games/content? Hopefully we get most of those answers at E3. I wish they would have shown more gaming content but at the very least they showed the actual system. I also think that during one of the specs reveals it showed that the console comes with a 500 GB hard drive. Hopefully that turns out to be true. As for Kinect 2.....um, I need more details. I mean, I know it comes standard but hopefully you don't have to use it for every game.

kupomogli
05-21-2013, 02:13 PM
We Finally have a title.

You could have used the thread that I posted three hours ago instead of what's practically a duplicate thread.

JakeM
05-21-2013, 02:16 PM
http://kotaku.com/the-xbox-is-not-always-online-but-seems-to-block-used-509077987


Are developers forced to create games that have these online features, and are thus not playable offline? They are not, Xbox exec Whitten said to Wired — but “I hope they do.” So the always-online future may come in incremental steps.

So it's up to the developer. Some games may require an Internet connection; some may not. The future of always-online remains hazy.

kupomogli
05-21-2013, 02:35 PM
So it's not always online, but the disc is tied to a Live account in order to play? I don't see this going over very well.

Also, if people can pay an additional fee for a used game to be tied to their system, then what's to stop people from renting or borrowing the game, downloading it, then paying $10 dollars to have ownership of the game permanently? Unless once the Xbox logs back online ownership is switched, and if the other owner wants to regain ownership they'll need to purchase the code once more.

Tupin
05-21-2013, 02:43 PM
Sony's stocks skyrocketed after the reveal of the One. If Sony doesn't do the used game thing, it won't even be a contest.

I already was going to hold off on buying a One for at least a year after that godawful conference, the used game thing just ensured that I will never buy one.

Bojay1997
05-21-2013, 02:48 PM
Sony's stocks skyrocketed after the reveal of the One. If Sony doesn't do the used game thing, it won't even be a contest.

I already was going to hold off on buying a One for at least a year after that godawful conference, the used game thing just ensured that I will never buy one.

I was incredibly disappointed by the Xbox One reveal today. It literally appears to be a cable box/DVR that also plays games. As far as I can tell, they didn't even show a single frame of actual game play in any of the tiny number of games they showed. Honestly, this might be the first generation in 20 years where I don't get one of the new consoles at launch. If PS4 actually plays used games without some registration requirement and doesn't require a full time Internet connection, it might be the only new console I buy this generation. At a minimum, it appears there is no real way to collect games with the Xbox One, so that should save me some money.

kupomogli
05-21-2013, 02:53 PM
Honestly, this might be the first generation in 20 years where I don't get one of the new consoles at launch.

Didn't you buy a Wii U at launch? So I'm going to quote you on Wii U not being next gen in the future okay?

I'm just kidding, though. I'll probably still quote you on it, but as long as it has good games, next gen doesn't matter.

CDiablo
05-21-2013, 03:00 PM
So it's not always online, but the disc is tied to a Live account in order to play? I don't see this going over very well.

Also, if people can pay an additional fee for a used game to be tied to their system, then what's to stop people from renting or borrowing the game, downloading it, then paying $10 dollars to have ownership of the game permanently? Unless once the Xbox logs back online ownership is switched, and if the other owner wants to regain ownership they'll need to purchase the code once more.

I assume ownership of a "used" game license will be slightly cheaper than MSRP. MS is going the Steam DRM route with this system and with EA mysteriously dropping their online pass I expect Sony to follow.

TonyTheTiger
05-21-2013, 03:29 PM
http://oi44.tinypic.com/2guxv1h.jpg

wallydawg
05-21-2013, 03:56 PM
That is the worst console name in video game history. How can you name your THIRD console ONE? Now when we go to search the original XBOX it's going to be mixed in with this one. Unbelievably stupid.

Not as bad as "xbox 720" would have been imo.

Frankie_Says_Relax
05-21-2013, 04:18 PM
Well, until they show a games-in-development lineup from all the usual suspects my fears are realized.

Diminished focus on games and/or game franchises that would keep me interested in the XBOX brand.

While I know that billions do, I don't play HALO, Call of Duty, Forza or any sports games.

So, based on what I saw today, system hardware looks fine, but there's not a game in the lot that has me even remotely interested.

I'm also amused by the inclusion of a Blu-Ray drive. Sony developed tech in a directly-competing game console. Brilliant.

TonyTheTiger
05-21-2013, 04:37 PM
I wouldn't worry about the software. That'll come. The box is pretty much right in line with expectations and, like the PS4, probably addressed just about all of developers' major complaints from this previous generation. So long as there are no major hiccups like reliability issues, crippling bottlenecks, or insane price points holding it back, I can't imagine publishers will shy away. I'm rarely an early adopter but when's the last time a console has been a slam dunk with its software lineup right out of the gate, let alone during the initial reveal?

T2KFreeker
05-21-2013, 04:43 PM
Oh boy. Even though I enjoyed the original XBOX and the 360, this one looks like a dunk in the meh tank. Used games not allowed killed it for me. Way to go Microsoft.

Frankie_Says_Relax
05-21-2013, 04:49 PM
I wouldn't worry about the software. That'll come. The box is pretty much right in line with expectations and, like the PS4, probably addressed just about all of developers' major complaints from this previous generation. So long as there are no major hiccups like reliability issues, crippling bottlenecks, or insane price points holding it back, I can't imagine publishers will shy away. I'm rarely an early adopter but when's the last time a console has been a slam dunk with its software lineup right out of the gate, let alone during the initial reveal?

Well, I would say based on the lack of exclusive 3rd party content and new 1st party IPs in the recent past on the 360 that they COULD HAVE made a greater effort to plant some seed of interest in my demographic (those who have largely migrated away from 360 relative to the lack of varied exclusives).

I'm sure that we'll get a better scope of what software may be coming in the near future, but personally I was hoping for some more sizzle reels here. What we did get was more of the same-old-same-old IMO: FORZA, SPORTS, COD, SPORTS and SPORTS.

As far as strong launch lineups? I'll always remember Dreamcast having a particularly varied selection of stuff to choose from that showed off the system's power and abilities.

Superman
05-21-2013, 04:53 PM
Now when we go to search the original XBOX it's going to be mixed in with this one. Unbelievably stupid.

I know I got confused by the name already. I saw the title of another thread about PS4 and Xbox one.

I didn't know why they were comparing a new system to a system from a couple of generations ago. :embarrassed:

Rickstilwell1
05-21-2013, 04:56 PM
I might get one if somebody hacks the system to rid it of the required installation process. Then still buy the games new if I want to support publishers. That way I'd at least know if the servers get shut down when the system after this one comes out, my games would still work due to not having to be activated anymore.

But look at it this way, people won't be able to sell their used games for as high of prices because everybody knows there will be that added on fee. So will we be seeing used Xbox One games for $5 on ebay across the board? I also imagine there will be games that won't sell well and just end up in the budget $20 section new after a while if $50 seems too much per game.

At least they have some sort of system where games are transferrable period and used discs don't ever become useless.

Still everything about it makes this system behave more like a PC than a console when it comes to game installation (minus having to deal with knowing whether or not you have the right system specs and good brands of chipsets.)

It's not like PS3 where just part of the game is installed; this process installs the whole thing. It's like buying digital games, only you have a physical backup disc of that digital game now. So this system is a viable route for people who buy digital download games all the time. The real question is what kinds of games will compete between this system and the PS4. And will the Wii U ever get some kinds of games so innovative and fun like a really high quality Zelda that people will want one even after getting one of the newer systems.

Bojay1997
05-21-2013, 05:18 PM
Didn't you buy a Wii U at launch? So I'm going to quote you on Wii U not being next gen in the future okay?

I'm just kidding, though. I'll probably still quote you on it, but as long as it has good games, next gen doesn't matter.

You must have me confused with someone else. I did buy a WiiU at launch. I don't consider the WiiU "next generation" whatever that means. I consider it more of a half or quarter step between the Wii/Xbox 360/PS3 generation and the upcoming PS4 and Xbox One generation.

WCP
05-21-2013, 05:37 PM
Everybody is assuming that Sony isn't going to have a similar used game policy, but I'm not so sure about that.


First off, while Sony did say that a person would be able to play used games on the PS4, they didn't say "how" that would be accomplished. Technically, used games "will" be playable on Xbox One, but it will come with a fee. Sony could end up doing the exact same thing. My interest in both consoles is going to be tepid at best, until there is more information on how the whole used game thing is going to work.


TONS of unanswered questions still remain.

BricatSegaFan
05-21-2013, 05:41 PM
Did they get their naming scheme from HTC?

HTC's newest phone is called the ONE.

Bojay1997
05-21-2013, 05:42 PM
Everybody is assuming that Sony isn't going to have a similar used game policy, but I'm not so sure about that.


First off, while Sony did say that a person would be able to play used games on the PS4, they didn't say "how" that would be accomplished. Technically, used games "will" be playable on Xbox One, but it will come with a fee. Sony could end up doing the exact same thing. My interest in both consoles is going to be tepid at best, until there is more information on how the whole used game thing is going to work.


TONS of unanswered questions still remain.

I agree. Sony definitely left the door open for charging for used games and for games requiring an Internet connection. Frankly, I don't think it's likely that big publishers like EA would accept a closed system from Microsoft, but a wide open one from Sony. If anything, I think it's more likely that both new platforms will have structures in place to charge for used copies which in and of itself will require an Internet connection for at least some amount of time to do the registration.

Lucifersam1
05-21-2013, 07:03 PM
I am amused by this too. Does that mean that by some licensing agreement with whomever made the drive, Sony ultimately gets a piece of MSFT's pie? They have to buy the drive, and the manufacturer probably charges some fee to MSFT to offset the cost of licensing the rights from Sony? Not really sure how it works, but it seems logical?

Also, in response to whomever stated they were content with 500GB, I thought that 500GB seemed a bit paltry in this day and age





I'm also amused by the inclusion of a Blu-Ray drive. Sony developed tech in a directly-competing game console. Brilliant.

Bojay1997
05-21-2013, 07:35 PM
I am amused by this too. Does that mean that by some licensing agreement with whomever made the drive, Sony ultimately gets a piece of MSFT's pie? They have to buy the drive, and the manufacturer probably charges some fee to MSFT to offset the cost of licensing the rights from Sony? Not really sure how it works, but it seems logical?

Also, in response to whomever stated they were content with 500GB, I thought that 500GB seemed a bit paltry in this day and age

Yes, Sony is part of the group of patent holding companies that created Blu Ray and therefore shares in licensing fees for both hardware and discs. Having said that, those total licensing fees are only about $10 for a drive and under fifteen cents per disc last time I checked and Sony's share is a much smaller piece of each of those. Of course, in success, Microsoft could end up paying Sony millions in licensing fees for drives and discs.

Collector_Gaming
05-21-2013, 07:36 PM
So far none of it impresses me at all.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/984191_566910480041695_1589235409_n.jpg

I did find this funny though

But to me that kinda bugs me... Is that to me its no longer a video game console... I mean Xbox 360 was following a thin line... But now its a computer.... Might as well just buy a gaming pc and a hook up a 360 controller and BAM same exact damn thing

Gameguy
05-21-2013, 08:09 PM
Did they get their naming scheme from HTC?

HTC's newest phone is called the ONE.
I thought it was taken from Pepsi. They could have just got Michael J Fox to help advertise it and it might seem cooler. To me it looks like a satellite receiver.

heybtbm
05-21-2013, 08:19 PM
That is the worst console name in video game history.

No...that would be "Wii" followed by "Wii U". Both are infinitely worse.

Rob2600
05-21-2013, 08:23 PM
"Saturn", "Dreamcast", and "PlayStation" are serious contenders for worst console names ever. Especially "Dreamcast" and "PlayStation".

And "Neo-Geo". And "Turbo Grafx 16". And "Xbox".

In fact, most video game console names are really stupid.

Nionel
05-21-2013, 08:27 PM
Sony could really use this whole used games debacle to their advantage if they were to announce that they don't have restrictions for used games on the PS4, ditto to Nintendo since we know for a fact the Wii U doesn't have any blocks on used games.

Back on topic, the reveal was pretty underwhelming. While I thought that CoD: Ghosts looks better than the previous CoD titles, and I'm not a CoD fan, but I don't care about Forza and EA's sports titles. This whole thin just made me wonder what happened to using game consoles to play games? I mean, yeah, I've used my Xbox and PS3 for Netflix and watching movies, but live TV and Skype? This is getting a little crazy. Call me old fashioned, but I want my console to do gaming first and have everything else take a back seat to that.

Ed Oscuro
05-21-2013, 08:37 PM
I don't know, nothing is quite as embarrassing as showing that you don't know how to count.

Saturn is a great name - Titan too. Nothing wrong with Dreamcast either.

@ WCP:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-08-sony-definitively-rules-out-always-online-for-ps4

Maybe Sony's been treated more gently by the leaks, but when you've ruled out an always-online policy, the most obvious method of ruling out used game usage - tying an activation code to one account, and only moving it if the current owner pays a fee - doesn't seem workable.

Bojay1997
05-21-2013, 10:02 PM
I don't know, nothing is quite as embarrassing as showing that you don't know how to count.

Saturn is a great name - Titan too. Nothing wrong with Dreamcast either.

@ WCP:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-08-sony-definitively-rules-out-always-online-for-ps4

Maybe Sony's been treated more gently by the leaks, but when you've ruled out an always-online policy, the most obvious method of ruling out used game usage - tying an activation code to one account, and only moving it if the current owner pays a fee - doesn't seem workable.

Saying that you ruled out always online is not the same as saying the PS4 will never have to be online. The PC has had Internet based activation since dial-up days. I would be shocked if Sony didn't require the same, especially in light of Microsoft's announcement and the pressure they will get from large publishers like EA and others. If Sony has major markets where no Internet is available for some reason, I can see them developing a custom version of the PS4 for those markets or some other means of activation like texting an activation code or even calling a phone number, but to be honest, I doubt many places like that exist anymore, at least not in the US, Europe or most of Asia.

Ed Oscuro
05-21-2013, 10:18 PM
Those are all possibilities, but they are also far-fetched. Doing communication with a central server, as the Xbox One, is going to be cheap for Microsoft (or anybody) and far less problematic than trying to administer alternate activation methods just to delay an inevitable reveal of obnoxious new limitations on software use. Sony has already financially profited from Microsoft's assertions, but such profits would quickly evaporate along with the unintentional goodwill generated by Microsoft for Sony.

In the case of the Xbox, we had plenty of "rumors" - mostly leaks, actually - which ended up being worse than what was thought. There were some technically accurate but incomplete "counter-leaks" which purported to disprove always online...which ended up just being some confirmation that no, not even Microsoft is stupid enough to sign you out of a game if you temporarily lose a connection.

On the PS4 side, we don't have any rumors to even start building a case from, just pure speculation. And, for somebody who protested the always online rumors so much, I don't see why you can justify trying to invent rumors. If it was bad to pay attention to leaked (but legitimate) information, surely it's at least as bad to just create rumors out of thin air.

EA can say whatever they want to Sony, but I think Sony now have good cause to be suspicious that they need to build in a draconian "online pass" - like system, as Microsoft has done.

PreZZ
05-21-2013, 10:22 PM
From 2006 to 2009, I only played my 360 and my ps3 was covered with dust. But since 2009, PS3 became my favorite system, it had more exclusives and ever since MS launched Kinect they lost their focus on gamers. I dont give a fuck about cameras, wands, waggle controllers, etc its just a useless gimmick. This one requires a new Kinect or else it wont play!! Have fun with Kinectimals One and buying a new house just to have a big sized gaming room to play with it. And MS not denying all the used game stuff just proves they will try to get every penny possible... Fuck it. And if ps4 does the same bullshit, fuck it too. Wii U might be good after all!

Bojay1997
05-21-2013, 10:46 PM
Those are all possibilities, but they are also far-fetched. Doing communication with a central server, as the Xbox One, is going to be cheap for Microsoft (or anybody) and far less problematic than trying to administer alternate activation methods just to delay an inevitable reveal of obnoxious new limitations on software use. Sony has already financially profited from Microsoft's assertions, but such profits would quickly evaporate along with the unintentional goodwill generated by Microsoft for Sony.

In the case of the Xbox, we had plenty of "rumors" - mostly leaks, actually - which ended up being worse than what was thought. There were some technically accurate but incomplete "counter-leaks" which purported to disprove always online...which ended up just being some confirmation that no, not even Microsoft is stupid enough to sign you out of a game if you temporarily lose a connection.

On the PS4 side, we don't have any rumors to even start building a case from, just pure speculation. And, for somebody who protested the always online rumors so much, I don't see why you can justify trying to invent rumors. If it was bad to pay attention to leaked (but legitimate) information, surely it's at least as bad to just create rumors out of thin air.

Also, what pressure is Sony under from EA? EA appears to be exclusive with Microsoft this round. Quite apparently they only announced they're ditching online passes (about a week ago) because the new Microsoft system does everything online passes did, but more comprehensively (and with less cost to EA, because it'll all be on Microsoft servers now).

We do have what Sony revealed at their press event. They could have easily said, no Internet connection required and used games work the same way they do today. Given how much Internet and video game media speculation there was following the discovery of that Sony patent last year and in the weeks and months leading up to their event, they had to be aware that it was a concern. The fact that they didn't immediately storm the video game media the minute Microsoft's press event ended today trumpeting that the PS4 doesn't require an Internet connection and that used games are completely transferrable and reusable without additional fees indicates that maybe that's not the whole story. Just like rumors can sometimes have a kernel of truth inside, so too can omissions or a lack of a firm and complete statement of information from company spokespeople.

Sony needs EA and just because EA is providing Microsoft with added features doesn't mean they are going single console this time. Without Fifa and Madden, Sony would have no viable football or soccer games and would lose two of its consistently biggest selling third party games worldwide. Sony also stated at least once in the past few weeks that it will allow content providers to choose how they do content protection. You can be sure that Sony will allow EA and any other third party which so chooses to limit content to a single user or family and require Internet activation in much the same way that online passes used to work.

TonyTheTiger
05-21-2013, 11:14 PM
To me it looks like a satellite receiver.

It's specifically designed to look like a set-top box. I'm assuming that was deliberate. Any kind of entertainment system centerpiece like a DVD player or A/V receiver should ideally be very neutral. They went heavy in favor of the "big black rectangle nobody notices" aesthetic. I honestly like it quite a bit. It doesn't have the personality of consoles past and it is awfully large but it actually looks the part of an entertainment center. And I like the idea that it's apparently designed to allow easy stacking of other devices.


In fact, most video game console names are really stupid.

Yeah, but Xbox One is the only name that will actively mess with people. Suddenly "Xbox 1" and "Xbox One" mean completely different things. It feels like trolling. If Nintendo were doing it and we had the "Nintendo One" it wouldn't be an issue since nobody uses that terminology to refer to the NES. But just about everyone uses "Xbox 1" when they need to specify the original.

Ed Oscuro
05-21-2013, 11:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

They could have easily said, no Internet connection required and used games work the same way they do today.
Sounds like you want me to prove a negative here.

Sony didn't say "PS4 doesn't kill cute baboon babies," I guess speculation about whether PS4 kills cute baby baboons is kosher now.

Working from leaks > just making up stuff because we don't have perfect information. Sooner or later you'll get what I'm saying.

Also, "no Internet connection" is not something anybody has been saying. Ever. You obviously need an internet connection for some things. Whether a game wants to go online for updates is one thing, as is having the system sitting in a kind of sleep mode for instant-on. Forcing the user to connect every 24 hours or else you lose the game is another.

And I like the idea that it's apparently designed to allow easy stacking of other devices.
Now you can transfer the Xbox One heat failure experience to your other beloved electronic boxes!

Yeah, but Xbox One is the only name that will actively mess with people. Suddenly "Xbox 1" and "Xbox One" mean completely different things. It feels like trolling.
Kind of like how consistently failing to have a plan for keeping old software playable in the future, and then making that model the default for the entire system, might be considered trolling?

TonyTheTiger
05-21-2013, 11:28 PM
Now you can transfer the Xbox One heat failure experience to your other beloved electronic boxes!

I'm assuming the size is basically MS saying "fuck it, let's be REAL SURE."

Bojay1997
05-21-2013, 11:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

Sounds like you want me to prove a negative here.

Sony didn't say "PS4 doesn't kill cute baboon babies," I guess speculation about whether PS4 kills cute baby baboons is kosher now.

Working from leaks > just making up stuff because we don't have perfect information. Sooner or later you'll get what I'm saying.

Also, "no Internet connection" is not something anybody has been saying. Ever. You obviously need an internet connection for some things. Whether a game wants to go online for updates is one thing, as is having the system sitting in a kind of sleep mode for instant-on. Forcing the user to connect every 24 hours or else you lose the game is another.

Now you can transfer the Xbox One heat failure experience to your other beloved electronic boxes!

Kind of like how consistently failing to have a plan for keeping old software playable in the future, and then making that model the default for the entire system, might be considered trolling?

I don't need you to prove anything. Sony filed a patent application for a means of locking a game to a particular user account. That's not a rumor, that's a factual statement. http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-patents-tech-to-block-used-games-6401992. The fact that Sony still hasn't clearly and unequivocally stated that used games can be freely transferred without a fee or some re-licensing process is still a perfectly valid concern. Saying a console can play used games is technically still true of the Xbox One, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not the same as being able to play used games without re-registration or re-licensing or being signed in to a specific user profile.

You're also backtracking on the Internet connection. The PS3, Xbox 360 and WiiU can all be played and used for gaming without ever having been connected to the Internet. Mandatory system updates are distributed on game discs currently for those gamers who don't use the Internet with their consoles. For example, my brother took his Xbox 360 on a destroyer while he was on deployment for six months. He and his crewmates played the thing every day. He had no Internet access as the only Internet connections on the ship were secured and used with specific e-mail terminals. To this day he still uses that 360 and his kids play it and it has never been connected to the Internet even once. IMHO, there should never be a requirement that a console be connected to the Internet if the user has no interest in using online functionality. It appears that you are conceding that the PS4 may in fact require such a connection and if that's the case with the PS4, Sony is going to face at least some level of backlash similar to what Microsoft is now facing.

klausien
05-22-2013, 12:40 AM
We shouldn't have to debate any of this. There just shouldn't be ownership restrictions on this stuff. It all started ages ago with the idea of software licensing to combat widespread piracy, and has finally reached gaming via the same industry players. What a surprise. The fears everyone nourished in the wake of M$ joining the console game have come to stunning fruition.

The direction the next generation appears to actually be taking has answered my questions about my current XBLA games that don't work when the system isn't connected. They aren't mine, never were, and they most certainly will be gone when they kill the service someday. There will be no magic unlock patch to allow me to play them without the service. The truth is that we all have already been stiffed - now they're just taking a little more off the top. Once a door is opened, it is very difficult to close. Advantages will always be taken regardless of consequences. It's a process not unlike the way a frog will cook itself to death if the temperature of the water in the pot increases gradually. That said, I think I will miss AfterBurner Climax, Daytona USA and RayStorm HD the most.

The FPS, sports and online multiplayer games that have dominated the market this generation and the people who are addicted to them are the market's only concern - but I understand. The producers are only a small part of the overall equation. We also have to realize the part we play in all of this. The purpose of business is and has always been profit and nothing else. The retro market has proven that it is not profitable; evidenced by the myriad of reboots and remakes that sold poorly this generation. The penny-pinching and low-balling that are a part of all collector cultures also kill many of the games this same niche of gamers clamor for because essentially everyone refuses to pay the MSRP. Just as with the complete commercialization of popular music, popular gaming has now officially lost its soul. C'est la vie.

CDiablo
05-22-2013, 01:24 AM
People were excited for the "Steam Box" but MS beat them to the punch and are now angry.

JakeM
05-22-2013, 01:31 AM
This console is evil, and if people buy it theyre apart of the problem. It goes beyond problems in gaming into problems with society. A huge corporation is selling kids a box that will spy on them 24/7, once parent s figure this out I hope they'll make their kids understand how bad this is, but most kids wont listen. I hope the machine dies at the store and people stay away from it.


This is the worst console ever made, its worse than the Pippin, Jaguar, and the CD-i.

Ed Oscuro
05-22-2013, 02:10 AM
Indeed:

http://techland.time.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-revealed-microsofts-next-gen-console-emphasizes-tv-over-games/

"Xbox LIVE — which still looks pretty much like the version of Xbox LIVE you’re using today — now remembers what you were last doing, what game you were playing, what song you were listening to and so forth, surfacing that information automatically."

BEADWINDOW codes 1, 3, 4, 6, and 7, don't you think?
Roger, out.

Daltone
05-22-2013, 02:37 AM
Bleh. I'm starting to feel like I may as well get a Steam box.

As for Sony, this is the company that released the PSP Go, a device that only allowed you to purchase from their over priced online store.

Ed Oscuro
05-22-2013, 03:36 AM
I think Sony is backing off the direction seen in the PSP Go experiment - what it ended up being; Sony must have noticed it didn't sell well - and Vita is somewhat more consumer-friendly than that, I think.

The Go was pretty upfront about what you'd get; without physical media, of course you'd only be getting it from the online stores. No discs to confuse people into thinking they'd be able to sell the games.

Rob2600
05-22-2013, 09:22 AM
I'm assuming the size is basically MS saying "fuck it, let's be REAL SURE."

Let's hope they didn't skimp on the fans and thermal paste this time! :)

Collector_Gaming
05-22-2013, 10:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

I'll just leave this here.... Let the rage begin

Graham Mitchell
05-22-2013, 11:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

I'll just leave this here.... Let the rage begin

I love that video.

I'm not really surprised that this presentation ended up that way. Every generation the consoles get a bit further from my interests and start to cater to the jocks who made fun of me for playing NES. They might as well have called this presentation "fuck you, you faggot nerd."

Since both the "One" and the PS4 are x86 based, and I'm already a committed PC gamer, neither of these are looking too appealing to me. My PC is already more powerful than both of these. I'm really hoping the "One" doesn't end up with a bunch of awesome Cave shooters or something because I REALLY don't want to have to buy one.

JakeM
05-22-2013, 11:21 AM
More hits keep on coming. Microsoft should rehire Adam Orth, keep greedy bastards in the same company.

http://kotaku.com/indie-developers-won-t-be-able-to-self-publish-on-xbox-509271999?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow


The solo and small-team game-makers who’ve made games like Fez, Braid and Limbo won’t be able to control their own destinies on Microsoft’s next game console...This news comes in stark contrast to Sony’s promises that indies will be able to self-publish content on the PS4. The publisher model, of course, means that some other entity has to decide whether to take a risk on helping get a game on a console and that someone else gets a cut of profits.

Griking
05-22-2013, 11:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

I'll just leave this here.... Let the rage begin


Kind of dumb actually. A video could have been made with people repeating the word 'the' as well.

While I personally think I like what I've been reading about the PS4 this time around I hold no hate for this console. In fact, I don't know if it's possible but I think that it would be awesome if we would be able to replace our $5 a month rented cable boxes with an Xbox.

Collector_Gaming
05-22-2013, 11:56 AM
Kind of dumb actually. A video could have been made with people repeating the word 'the' as well.

While I personally think I like what I've been reading about the PS4 this time around I hold no hate for this console. In fact, I don't know if it's possible but I think that it would be awesome if we would be able to replace our $5 a month rented cable boxes with an Xbox.

wait.... xbox isn't a cable box?

After all the tv references (and thats why whoever made that video like that).. I thought otherwise.

Huh the more you know I guess.


Actually I thought of another thing this reminds me of.. Remember those hotels back in the day that had a system in the rooms where you could watch tv and play n64 games on a their hardwired n64 controller all in one unit?

BAM Xbox 1 before Xbox 1

Polygon
05-22-2013, 12:14 PM
This console is evil, and if people buy it theyre apart of the problem. It goes beyond problems in gaming into problems with society. A huge corporation is selling kids a box that will spy on them 24/7, once parent s figure this out I hope they'll make their kids understand how bad this is, but most kids wont listen. I hope the machine dies at the store and people stay away from it.


This is the worst console ever made, its worse than the Pippin, Jaguar, and the CD-i.

This is pretty much my feelings on the X-Box one. I think it's a huge problem on many levels. Locked down hardware, locked down software, economic issues, privacy issues, etc. I will not be buying one, no matter what. You're control and privacy is slowly being eroded away. Stop supporting this crap!

Griking
05-22-2013, 06:18 PM
This is pretty much my feelings on the X-Box one. I think it's a huge problem on many levels. Locked down hardware, locked down software, economic issues, privacy issues, etc. I will not be buying one, no matter what. You're control and privacy is slowly being eroded away. Stop supporting this crap!

Which console's didn't have locked down hardware and software?

TonyTheTiger
05-22-2013, 06:25 PM
We know what happens when righteous indignation incites a concerted effort to "beat the system," both figuratively and literally. Regardless of where you fall on the right vs. wrong of it, there's no denying this chaotic neutral force acts as the great equalizer. We just have to wait and see if Microsoft is overstepping the invisible line that triggers a digital rebellion that would threaten the bottom line.

Greg2600
05-22-2013, 06:40 PM
Did they intentionally use a guy that looks like Bill Gates in that video?

Frankie_Says_Relax
05-22-2013, 07:56 PM
Which console's didn't have locked down hardware and software?

I think he means physical software that is electronically married to a console/user.

This will be the first time in the history of home consoles that console games will be released at brick/mortar on physical media that only serves as a delivery medium to install data on the console's hard drive and registers it to a user/console ID.

kainemaxwell
05-22-2013, 07:59 PM
I think he means physical software that is electronically married to a console/user.

This will be the first time in the history of home consoles that console games will be released at brick/mortar on physical media that only serves as a delivery medium to install data on the console's hard drive and registers it to a user/console ID.

Pretty sad really.

Rob2600
05-22-2013, 08:10 PM
Which console's didn't have locked down hardware and software?

I can't think of any other video game console in history that prevented people from trading games, borrowing games, renting games, or buying used games.

CelticJobber
05-22-2013, 08:40 PM
We do have what Sony revealed at their press event. They could have easily said, no Internet connection required and used games work the same way they do today. Given how much Internet and video game media speculation there was following the discovery of that Sony patent last year and in the weeks and months leading up to their event, they had to be aware that it was a concern. The fact that they didn't immediately storm the video game media the minute Microsoft's press event ended today trumpeting that the PS4 doesn't require an Internet connection and that used games are completely transferrable and reusable without additional fees indicates that maybe that's not the whole story. Just like rumors can sometimes have a kernel of truth inside, so too can omissions or a lack of a firm and complete statement of information from company spokespeople.

Sony needs EA and just because EA is providing Microsoft with added features doesn't mean they are going single console this time. Without Fifa and Madden, Sony would have no viable football or soccer games and would lose two of its consistently biggest selling third party games worldwide. Sony also stated at least once in the past few weeks that it will allow content providers to choose how they do content protection. You can be sure that Sony will allow EA and any other third party which so chooses to limit content to a single user or family and require Internet activation in much the same way that online passes used to work.

There was this article, which quotes Sony's head of worldwide game studios, Shuhei Yoshida as saying the PS4 won't require a connection. But they're leaving it up to publishers to decide if some of their games have to be registered online. Sony isn't requiring it.

http://kotaku.com/5985874/ps4-will-not-require-an-always+online-connection

Greg2600
05-22-2013, 10:09 PM
I can't think of any other video game console in history that prevented people from trading games, borrowing games, renting games, or buying used games.

Well you will still be able to trade in the game on MS's XBL in some form for credit! Ha ha. And I guess toss the disc/case in the trash. This has been the way of the world in PC gaming for awhile now, including games that are entirely online. I know of several motorsports simulation services which are fee based, and don't require any discs. The difference is nobody really minds there, because it's fee based. Console gaming has always been much more of shorter/smaller games with multiplayer melees.

I would think this is largely the end for GameStop (eventually) and services like Red Box and GameFly which "rent" out games. I mean, all this Xbox One is, is a cheap PC. But it's not a PC. The cable TV watching is highly misleading. Most Cable services provide apps for some channels not all. You need a cable card for that, which the Xbox won't have. There are so many avenues Microsoft will cut off with this product I really don't get it? I think they will still charge you if you install onto a friend's XBOX One, and he wants to keep that game.

Rob2600
05-22-2013, 10:58 PM
Did they intentionally use a guy that looks like Bill Gates in that video?

I thought the same thing! :)

Bojay1997
05-22-2013, 11:35 PM
There was this article, which quotes Sony's head of worldwide game studios, Shuhei Yoshida as saying the PS4 won't require a connection. But they're leaving it up to publishers to decide if some of their games have to be registered online. Sony isn't requiring it.

http://kotaku.com/5985874/ps4-will-not-require-an-always+online-connection

I already went through this "interview" in the other thread, but he didn't unequivocally say that a connection won't be required, only that users won't be forced to be online if they don't want to be. That doesn't mean that some kind of game activation won't be required and tied to a specific user account as that has nothing to do with being social, that's a straight up security and licensing issue. Like I've said here and elsewhere, I really do hope Sony doesn't lock out used copies or require any Internet connection ever just like the current PS3, but they have been far from clear about it and frankly, given the uproar Microsoft caused yesterday, I'm worried that Sony's silence today is an indication that things aren't exactly as all of us hope they will be with the PS4.

TonyTheTiger
05-22-2013, 11:38 PM
I would think this is largely the end for GameStop (eventually) and services like Red Box and GameFly which "rent" out games. I mean, all this Xbox One is, is a cheap PC. But it's not a PC. The cable TV watching is highly misleading. Most Cable services provide apps for some channels not all. You need a cable card for that, which the Xbox won't have. There are so many avenues Microsoft will cut off with this product I really don't get it? I think they will still charge you if you install onto a friend's XBOX One, and he wants to keep that game.

What are the odds GameStop revolts and doesn't push the One very hard or even refuses to stock it to any significant extent? Just look at how much their PC section has dwindled over the years. It's an interesting proposition since they're both giants that can slaughter each other. Microsoft needs GameStop as much as GameStop needs a second hand market. But GameStop is probably thinking about precedent here. No retailer is going to actively support a machine that, if successful, will destroy them. The One's success would demonstrate to Sony and Nintendo that this business model is viable. GameStop is going to want that line in the sand: this is our territory. It's ironic that GameStop, oft reviled among the "hardcore" gaming public, is actually these gamers' biggest asset.

RARusk
05-23-2013, 12:22 AM
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18oh09l9gc3p4gif/ku-medium.gif

Gamereviewgod
05-23-2013, 02:50 AM
Chew on this: Microsoft forces installs on the Xbox One, and then renders the disc copy of a video game useless. It would need to be reactivated for a fee. Otherwise, people could pass the game around to friends and they all play, right? Industry dies.

But, hold on here. On BOTH Windows PCs and the 360, you can rip a music CD to the HDD legally, and pass the disc on to anyone. Music industry survives just fine. How are games different in terms of software, and how hypocritical is MS in this scenario?

For this to work, MS is going to need to differentiate between software mediums, and I don't think they can do it to the average consumer.

JakeM
05-23-2013, 03:42 AM
Chew on this: Microsoft forces installs on the Xbox One, and then renders the disc copy of a video game useless. It would need to be reactivated for a fee. Otherwise, people could pass the game around to friends and they all play, right? Industry dies.

I was just thinking about this, how friends could pass their games around and just have one guy have the install account and they could all use that one account ton their Ones. The measure itself is to really stop used game sales of games, but going to your buddies place to play on their system is something every kid with friends does. Ive been telling all my friends about this, and they instantly dont want the console. Where did you get that info from though, exactly?

I have no clue what Microsoft is thinking, everyone I talk to who learns about these things instantly shuns off buying the thing.

Bojay1997
05-23-2013, 10:07 AM
Chew on this: Microsoft forces installs on the Xbox One, and then renders the disc copy of a video game useless. It would need to be reactivated for a fee. Otherwise, people could pass the game around to friends and they all play, right? Industry dies.

But, hold on here. On BOTH Windows PCs and the 360, you can rip a music CD to the HDD legally, and pass the disc on to anyone. Music industry survives just fine. How are games different in terms of software, and how hypocritical is MS in this scenario?

For this to work, MS is going to need to differentiate between software mediums, and I don't think they can do it to the average consumer.

I'm guessing you don't know much about the music industry. It's not "surviving just fine". It's in the worst financial situation it's ever been in since it started. iTunes has essentially killed the album business and made music into a single based business where the value of a song is now whatever pricing they can get away with on iTunes. The sad part about all of this is that people already have bought into the model with things like the iPad and PC games where it has been the norm not to be able to transfer your license for software or to own anything beyond the opportunity to use the software on a certain device or devices.

Polygon
05-23-2013, 10:10 AM
I think he means physical software that is electronically married to a console/user.

This will be the first time in the history of home consoles that console games will be released at brick/mortar on physical media that only serves as a delivery medium to install data on the console's hard drive and registers it to a user/console ID.

Yep, you got it. That's exactly what I meant.

Gamereviewgod
05-23-2013, 10:31 AM
The measure itself is to really stop used game sales of games, but going to your buddies place to play on their system is something every kid with friends does. Ive been telling all my friends about this, and they instantly dont want the console. Where did you get that info from though, exactly?

From Major Nelson:

"should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile."

So, it's possible to play elsewhere, BUT you would need your profile and active internet connection or pay a fee, i.e., no lending games.

Gamereviewgod
05-23-2013, 10:36 AM
I'm guessing you don't know much about the music industry. It's not "surviving just fine". It's in the worst financial situation it's ever been in since it started. iTunes has essentially killed the album business and made music into a single based business where the value of a song is now whatever pricing they can get away with on iTunes. The sad part about all of this is that people already have bought into the model with things like the iPad and PC games where it has been the norm not to be able to transfer your license for software or to own anything beyond the opportunity to use the software on a certain device or devices.

The music industry is struggling for other reasons, not because people have ripped CDs to their HDDs legally. That's my point.

Steam, despite being showered with love, was a precursor for where we're headed. People envision a future where everything is like Steam, and only consider the sales side of it. They don't consider the restrictions, no do they consider that in a digital world, publishers don't need Steam, Steam needs publishers. EA set up Origin for a reason, and it's for direct sale. If people want the game, they'll go where it's available, and every AAA publisher would be stupid not to have their own digital storefronts. Cut out the middle man.

Same goes for Netflix.

Rob2600
05-23-2013, 10:57 AM
I'm guessing you don't know much about the music industry. It's not "surviving just fine". It's in the worst financial situation it's ever been in since it started. iTunes has essentially killed the album business and made music into a single based business

The music industry was already like that from the 1950s on. Remember 45s, cassette maxi singles, and CD singles?

Bojay1997
05-23-2013, 12:56 PM
The music industry was already like from the 1950s on. Remember 45s, cassette maxi singles, and CD singles?

People still bought albums as opposed to just singles up until the rise of Napster and other file sharing services. If you look at album sales, they literally have fallen every year since 2000 even when you add in digital sales. As such, I stand by my contention that the music industry is not "surviving just fine".

Frankie_Says_Relax
05-23-2013, 01:24 PM
From Major Nelson:

"should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile."

So, it's possible to play elsewhere, BUT you would need your profile and active internet connection or pay a fee, i.e., no lending games.

Even with that level of access in place, there's still a precedent here on the purchase/sale/use of used physical media on home consoles requiring some system that is yet undisclosed by Microsoft.

I'm going to avoid the term "blocked" until post-E3, where, hopefully they will detail exactly how that will work.

Presently it seems that the only option is to purchase a full-retail-priced activation code to use the data on a used physical game disc.

Rob2600
05-23-2013, 01:45 PM
Presently it seems that the only option is to purchase a full-retail-priced activation code to use the data on a used physical game disc.

So if I buy a used disc at GameStop for $40, when I put it in my Xbox One, I have to pay full retail price (on top of what I already paid GameStop) to play it?

TonyTheTiger
05-23-2013, 02:37 PM
Presently it seems that the only option is to purchase a full-retail-priced activation code to use the data on a used physical game disc.

Which I think would only spur piracy if this proves to be the case. This is why I think the comparison to the music industry is faulty. The RIAA being retarded aside, the music industry responded to a significant cultural and technological shift. Generation Y decided to steal music en masse and the industry responded as best it could to get people buying again. There's no social revolution happening with games. Used software is a completely engineered "problem," no more harmful or revolutionary than used cars or hand-me-down clothing. I don't think there is rampant system modding going on today to such an extent that people aren't buying the merchandise anymore. It may be happening on the PC but most consoles require jumping through a few hoops (and sacrificing online) to accomplish it, which makes me think that if they're in such dire financial straights as the industry insiders like to claim then it's their own fault and they should either fix it internally or go out of business and let capitalism function as intended. This business tactic doesn't combat pirates. It combats everyone else. In fact, it doesn't do anything to combat piracy. Pirates don't care about possessing the physical item so none of those people are going to be frustrated by this development.

Among the people who do obtain the physical disc, many will start to think "I have this game...what do I have to do in order to use it?" And anyone with the slightest libertarian leanings is going to wonder "GM and Old Navy have to tolerate used goods, so what makes you so special?" It's kind of like the whole thing about playing imports back in the day. Seems like these companies have gotten wise that if you let people play imports right out of the gate they won't seek out the workarounds that end up leading to flat out piracy in the first place.

Bojay1997
05-23-2013, 02:59 PM
Which I think would only spur piracy if this proves to be the case. This is why I think the comparison to the music industry is faulty. The RIAA being retarded aside, the music industry responded to a significant cultural and technological shift. Generation Y decided to steal music en masse and the industry responded as best it could to get people buying again. There's no social revolution happening with games. Used software is a completely engineered "problem," no more harmful or revolutionary than used cars or hand-me-down clothing. I don't think there is rampant system modding going on today to such an extent that people aren't buying the merchandise anymore. It may be happening on the PC but most consoles require jumping through a few hoops (and sacrificing online) to accomplish it, which makes me think that if they're in such dire financial straights as the industry insiders like to claim then it's their own fault and they should either fix it internally or go out of business and let capitalism function as intended. This business tactic doesn't combat pirates. It combats everyone else. In fact, it doesn't do anything to combat piracy. Pirates don't care about possessing the physical item so none of those people are going to be frustrated by this development.

Among the people who do obtain the physical disc, many will start to think "I have this game...what do I have to do in order to use it?" And anyone with the slightest libertarian leanings is going to wonder "GM and Old Navy have to tolerate used goods, so what makes you so special?" It's kind of like the whole thing about playing imports back in the day. Seems like these companies have gotten wise that if you let people play imports right out of the gate they won't seek out the workarounds that end up leading to flat out piracy in the first place.

Actually, used cars are a significant problem for the auto industry and they always have been. The auto industry tried to reclaim the used market by encouraging dealers to get involved in certified used car programs, manufacturer backed extended warranties and by making cars more difficult to service by creating more custom parts and proprietary systems so that consumers would be forced to either go to the dealer or buy genuine parts. Each of those things had differing levels of success but it's something that the manufacturers struggle with on a daily basis, especially in this economy with people holding onto vehicles longer.

The sad reality is that consumers have already accepted the license model for software as the iPad and PC markets have been long established. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain that they can't resell their iTunes music or iPad games and frankly, it's been a while since I've heard anyone complain about the fact that PC games can't be freely transferred even if you buy them on physical media. Heck, SimCity was a textbook case of a botched launch and draconian DRM with an always-on requirement and that still sold 1.6 million copies with 800K of those digital.

While I am personally disturbed by Microsoft's news to the point where I won't be buying the Xbox One at launch and perhaps not ever, I am skeptical that the general gaming public is going to care all that much particularly in a world where millions of people regularly buy used games at Gamestop for $5-$10 below the new MSRP and accept half of what they paid when they trade them back in. Those same people probably won't care very much if they are paying that money to Gamestop or Microsoft or anyone else.

Rickstilwell1
05-23-2013, 03:18 PM
From Major Nelson:

"should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile."

So, it's possible to play elsewhere, BUT you would need your profile and active internet connection or pay a fee, i.e., no lending games.

So basically that won't stop people from sharing accounts and passwords with their friends like people already do with Netflix who loses money because of it. It was in the news that people just go and do that. "Hey friend, want to borrow this game? Here's my xbox live login, have fun. I'll let you use my account for a week if you let me borrow your game and use yours" Very easy.

Rob2600
05-23-2013, 03:25 PM
The sad reality is that consumers have already accepted the license model for software as the iPad and PC markets have been long established. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain that they can't resell their iTunes music or iPad games

Consumers have different expectations when it comes to a $1 iPad game or song vs. a $60 Xbox One game.

Bojay1997
05-23-2013, 03:29 PM
Consumers have different expectations when it comes to a $1 iPad game or song vs. a $60 Xbox One game.

Not really. Consumers are all about the service/license model today which is why premium digital cable and streaming pay services like Netflix are super successful. Like I said, if Microsoft can simply duplicate the Gamestop model and give people used games for $5-$10 below new and allow them to trade them in, the complaints will disappear from all but the few of us old-time collectors and gamers.

TonyTheTiger
05-23-2013, 03:42 PM
There's a difference between proprietary design and a license fee, though. GM or Ford using various physical design tricks is the equivalent of the proprietary model that keeps a PlayStation game solely playable on a PlayStation. That's been a gaming staple since forever. There's a meaningful difference between a Ford-specific fan belt they hold the patent on and Ford requiring some kind of second-hand authentication before the car physically starts because there's a different person in the driver seat. At minimum people would perceive a difference, that is. A physical product that works one way for Person A and a different way for Person B. Does Microsoft get to do what car and clothing manufacturers can't, just because? I don't know. This is where the DMCA seems like a rush job in the face of panic rather than an actual solution to anything. And I wouldn't be surprised if it gets tested harder and harder in the courts. If I modify my car so that it bypasses whatever Ford put in to keep me from using some other fan belt, they can't stop me. But if I modify my physical Xbox One to use discs Microsoft doesn't want me using, they can? Something is fishy there. At least it's fishy right now. 3D printing may throw a complete curveball once that really takes off. Who knows what happens both in the open market and in the law when you can duplicate a car from raw materials.

What's funny, though, is that, depending on how things play out, "old time collectors" arguably have reason to celebrate. If the physical product is useless without a license then it would be conceivable for a collector to hack the console with the inevitable exploit and then proceed to collect an Xbox One fullset for practically nothing since the used copies wouldn't be worth shit to most people, especially if every single game is also available via XBL download, which under this model they really should be.

Rob2600
05-23-2013, 04:38 PM
Not really. Consumers are all about the service/license model today which is why premium digital cable and streaming pay services like Netflix are super successful.

Netflix is successful because it only costs $8 a month. For that price, people don't mind the fact that they don't own a copy of the content, just like for $1, people don't mind if they don't own a copy of an iPad game or song. People would have much higher expectations of ownership at $60 a pop.

People's expectations are directly related to price.

Bojay1997
05-23-2013, 05:06 PM
Netflix is successful because it only costs $8 a month. For that price, people don't mind the fact that they don't own a copy of the content, just like for $1, people don't mind if they don't own a copy of an iPad game or song. People would have much higher expectations of ownership at $60 a pop.

People's expectations are directly related to price.

Disagree with regard to licensing models. As long as the content is great, the majority of consumers today could care less about owning physical goods or having transfer rights. People happily spend $200 every two years on the new iPhone and happily pay $100+ a month for data and voice plans. They also spend $40+ a month for high speed Internet and $60+ for digital cable in some cases. Many consumers also have Netflix or satellite radio or Direct TV with various sports premium packages that can cost hundreds of dollars a season. The days of people sitting down and really thinking about what personal entertainment costs them are long past. Like I said, if Microsoft simply does what Gamestop does themselves in a digital manner, the vast majority of consumers won't think twice about it. I'm not saying it's right or that's what I want, but it's pretty clear that that's what's going to happen regardless of what a few collectors might want.

Cornelius
05-23-2013, 05:48 PM
I think I saw someone post at some point that with some used games from Gamestop they got a DLC code printed on the receipt. Any reason this system won't be extended to used sale of Xbox One games? Sure, gamestop is going to have to work out an arrangement to get re-activation codes, but seems like a possible way to keep their current business model going for this upcoming generation. Has anyone brought up this possibility? Is it just too obvious, or am I missing some critical flaw? I know it will cut into margins/cost buyers more, but gamestop customers don't really seem to care how little they get/save, so long as it is something. And MS has an incentive in this, too, w/ GS selling more games than anyone else (for the time being).

TonyTheTiger
05-23-2013, 06:09 PM
Disagree with regard to licensing models. As long as the content is great, the majority of consumers today could care less about owning physical goods or having transfer rights.


It's less about whether they care to own physical goods and more about what they feel they're entitled to do once they do own physical goods. Nobody is saying that people aren't OK with buying digital content and everything that entails. The issue is what people want when they buy a physical item and everything that entails. If the Xbox One were digital only ala PSP Go or Ouya people wouldn't have the same problems. They might hate it for other reasons but it wouldn't be based on the same principles as their hate for the "locked disc" concept.

Greg2600
05-23-2013, 06:21 PM
Microsoft should take the used games out of its own hands. Set a re-license price to a game, which drops after X time on market. Let Gamestop worry about collecting trade-ins and re-selling them. Let Gamestop re-license them on the spot, for the new buyer.

Bojay1997
05-23-2013, 06:56 PM
It's less about whether they care to own physical goods and more about what they feel they're entitled to do once they do own physical goods. Nobody is saying that people aren't OK with buying digital content and everything that entails. The issue is what people want when they buy a physical item and everything that entails. If the Xbox One were digital only ala PSP Go or Ouya people wouldn't have the same problems. They might hate it for other reasons but it wouldn't be based on the same principles as their hate for the "locked disc" concept.

As I said above, all Microsoft has to do is provide retailers with the ability to buy back games and spit out reuse codes thus allowing both trade-ins and used sales to happen just like they do now and most consumers won't care at all. Sure, collectors will, but we are a very small percentage of the overall gaming population and frankly, not all that profitable for publishers.

TonyTheTiger
05-23-2013, 07:24 PM
I wonder what would happen if GameStop refuses to play ball under those circumstances. It would cost MS the generation, I think, if GameStop openly treated the One as a second class citizen to the PS4 and Wii U. They already do it to PC gaming so there's some precedent there. I doubt GameStop is particularly thrilled with the idea of having to micromanage reuse codes. Any problem on Microsoft's end and suddenly they're stuck in the middle dealing with complaints and eating a good bit of the bad PR that comes with it. Not to mention it's basically a stop gap meant to trigger the collapse of their most lucrative business. I just can't see the long term value to GameStop here. This is the type of thing a retail giant would want to put a stop to before it becomes second nature to its customers.

Bojay1997
05-23-2013, 07:31 PM
I wonder what would happen if GameStop refuses to play ball under those circumstances. It would cost MS the generation, I think, if GameStop openly treated the One as a second class citizen to the PS4 and Wii U. I doubt GameStop is particularly thrilled with the idea of having to micromanage reuse codes. Especially if it's basically a stop gap meant to trigger the collapse of their most lucrative business. I just can't see the long term value to GameStop here.

I'm pretty sure Gamestop is already on board and an agreement is already in place. Xbox One is plastered all over the Gamestop website. You're right though, they are giving up a huge amount of control of their business as they are now beholden to Microsoft to provide reuse codes and that could very easily go away if Microsoft decides to handle everything itself or secures so many other retail partners that Gamestop becomes just another one of many places that consumers can use to buy and sell used Xbox One games.

TonyTheTiger
05-23-2013, 07:52 PM
They're going to be "on board" in that they want to remain relevant to their potential consumers. It's certainly too early to do anything that could be construed as deliberately antagonistic. But "we'll have this new product" is different from "we support all products equally." Compare the used PS2 section to the Gamecube one. There are subtle and not so subtle ways to "push" something. People complain that GameStop employees bug them about preorders? Imagine if the preorder offer specifically name drops the PS4 version of a game. Microsoft and GameStop are in a chess match. They need to work together but also want to undermine each other at the same time. It's actually kind of exciting to see how this dysfunctional relationship plays out. Point is, they can't both get their way. And GameStop has more to lose if Microsoft wins than the other way around.

WCP
05-23-2013, 08:15 PM
Steam, despite being showered with love, was a precursor for where we're headed. People envision a future where everything is like Steam, and only consider the sales side of it. They don't consider the restrictions



Since I started PC gaming again (2010), I've considered their restrictions right off the bat. I treat all my digital download purchases as if they were long term rentals. It's why I normally only pay $4.99 and $7.50 for the vast majority of the games I get. Anything more than that, and I feel like I'm paying too much for a RENTAL. Sure, it's an extended rental, that could last a pretty long time, but the actual ownership behind it is pretty lax. You're rights to play the game are pretty restricted.

Every once in awhile, I'll pay $9.99 for something, but it's just so hard to go above that. Take Skyrim for example. I'd really love to try that game, but it hasn't come anywhere near my desired price point. Lowest I've ever seen it is $19.99 and that was only temporarily. As great as that game might be, I'm not going to pay 20 bucks for a long term rental.

It really makes me wonder if I'm going to get either of these new consoles. If they both offer up these bullshit restrictions, then I might just upgrade the PC and forget about console gaming. Still, I'm not going to lie, that would be really, really hard for me. Especially if something like Fallout 4 gets announced, or one of those sports games is just absolutely amazing. However... If I do end up buying one of these consoles, I'm going to try to be as cheap as I can possibly be. I would only buy one or two games per 6 month period of time. It would cause each purchase decision to be significantly magnified. I'd be worried to death about making a bad choice, and seeing $66 vanish into thin air.

WCP
05-23-2013, 08:24 PM
So basically that won't stop people from sharing accounts and passwords with their friends like people already do with Netflix who loses money because of it. It was in the news that people just go and do that. "Hey friend, want to borrow this game? Here's my xbox live login, have fun. I'll let you use my account for a week if you let me borrow your game and use yours" Very easy.

This is where facial recognition comes into play and the Kinect being on and operational requirement. Kinect will know that you aren't at your friends house. People are going to have to make paper photo's of their friends faces, and try to make a mask to fool the kinect, lol.

Frankie_Says_Relax
05-23-2013, 08:31 PM
Not really. Consumers are all about the service/license model today which is why premium digital cable and streaming pay services like Netflix are super successful. Like I said, if Microsoft can simply duplicate the Gamestop model and give people used games for $5-$10 below new and allow them to trade them in, the complaints will disappear from all but the few of us old-time collectors and gamers.

I don't know man, I'm about as pro-digital on consoles as you'll find here, I barely ever buy used games and even I'm REALLY shocked and concerned as to how they're going to change the intent of physical media all in one fell swoop, effectively changing what we buy at brick/mortar and why we buy it.

If you told me that the XBOX ONE would be a digital-download-only system I'd be LESS concerned than I am about the reaction of the non-core-gamer general public once this process is really and truly explained to them.

Now, I'm not saying that the ONE doesn't have a chance of survival IN SPITE of this, but I think this will be the single biggest growing pain for consumers to get over if they ever manage to come to terms with it.

And yes, license-locked content is nothing new on PCs and tablet/touch devices but we've never ever seen this on discs on consoles.

I don't want to see any of these companies fail in this next generation because when they succeed and flourish we all win ... but this, this has me very concerned.

The 1 2 P
05-23-2013, 08:54 PM
This is where facial recognition comes into play and the Kinect being on and operational requirement. Kinect will know that you aren't at your friends house. People are going to have to make paper photo's of their friends faces, and try to make a mask to fool the kinect, lol.

On the current Kinect model facial recognition is spotty at best. Sure my Kinect recognizes me but sometimes it doesn't, even though I'm the only one that uses it 99% of the time. If they can get it(voice and gesture) to work 100% of the time I won't mind so much. I'm also hoping that it's just optional for core games, with Mass Effect 3, Halo: CE Anniversary and Forza 4 being good examples of that on the current Kinect.

I actually like the name now that it's been explained. It was either that or "Xbox AIO", the way HP names their printers. However, what really would have been an awesome name is if they titled it: "The Xbox One....2 P". Of course that would have only worked if they promised me royalties.

And then we have the system itself. I don't mind an all-in-one media player/box/console thingie. Thats how my 360 is used now. What I don't care about is plugging my cable into my console. Or anything to do with the NFL. Or....wtf are they actually doing with used games and the online requirements? Everyday another executive says something different than the last one. Theres obviously going to be some kind of fee for playing used games and you will have to connect online at the very least once a day(acccording to some execs) but I really wish they would reveal those details. Perhaps they'll hold them for E3 but they've been promising to use that for all their XB1 game reveals.

Right now I'm not sure when I'll be picking up this system, despite already being on three early info/preorder list. I need several more questions answered before I can commit at launch. But eventually I'll be getting a XB1. The fact that it plays blurays means that it might even take my PS3's spot of my entertainment center. It might even make me start buying blurays over dvds.....maybe.

Now we just need to wait and see how much they price this thing. Hopefully the $99 360 test proved well enough for them to do a subsidized $199 model of XB1. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they just did a $350 and $450 model. That would be disappointing but not surprising.

RARusk
05-23-2013, 10:51 PM
I'll leave this here:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/21/4353010/kinect-trouble-xbox-one-reveal

kupomogli
05-23-2013, 10:58 PM
I saw this. Pretty shady, Microsoft. IGN reported that they're pretty sure when he was saying for the Kinect to do something, since he had his hand in his pocket, he was switching stuff with that. Who knows if someone behind the scenes didn't manipulate the minimize/maximize effect as well.

Zthun
05-23-2013, 11:04 PM
The problem with a digital-download-only system, like many others have said, is the price of the games.

Steam is successful. Very successful, and in fact, I'm one of the people that love Steam. But when I look at my library, I've noticed one major truth: my entire library is either a mix and match of the humble bundles, extreme steam discounts, or gifts from friends and family. I don't think anything on my Steam library ranges over $15. The price of games is everything. If I'm going to spend $40-$60 on a game, I go for a disc. This is simply because I want to keep the game and play it even after the generation is over. If the game can be had for only $2-$10, then it's a good Steam purchase. Of course, Amazon helps with finding cheap new games, but sometimes, you just can't beat the used prices at Gamestop. If Microsoft is solely allowed to control the used game market, then that cuts out Gamestop, eBay, and many other stores that sell them. Competition will be light. The fact that Microsoft can shut down the service whenever they want also makes it so your purchases won't last forever.

The only way I can see this work (for me and many other people that don't agree with this kind of policy) is a huge compromise on Microsoft's part. If they can offer 75% off sales like steam does, then I can see this working for people. However, I rarely see non-arcade titles go on sale for a major discount on xbl. Often, their digital downloads are more expensive than brand new copies on amazon; that includes the tax.

Overall, their used game policy is going to be the major deal breaker for many people.

Ed Oscuro
05-23-2013, 11:12 PM
Since I started PC gaming again (2010), I've considered their restrictions right off the bat. I treat all my digital download purchases as if they were long term rentals. It's why I normally only pay $4.99 and $7.50 for the vast majority of the games I get. Anything more than that, and I feel like I'm paying too much for a RENTAL. Sure, it's an extended rental, that could last a pretty long time, but the actual ownership behind it is pretty lax. You're rights to play the game are pretty restricted.

Every once in awhile, I'll pay $9.99 for something, but it's just so hard to go above that. Take Skyrim for example. I'd really love to try that game, but it hasn't come anywhere near my desired price point. Lowest I've ever seen it is $19.99 and that was only temporarily. As great as that game might be, I'm not going to pay 20 bucks for a long term rental.
I think that's a very insightful and useful way to put it.

As far as the gaming historian is concerned, it's a crying shame because this means that someday the only remnants of many currently-beloved games will be pirated versions, if they exist, and YouTube gameplay videos. Not quite the same thing, is it? Few enough people are thinking about keeping the history going. Of course, someday some of the developers or at least the rights holders will wake up, as they periodically do, and compile some artbook or "anniversary" content, which we will be expected to pay more for, again. However, the actual preservation of games will be as far off as ever.

Perhaps they had the right idea from the start with the Disney model - Snow White wasn't intended to make all its money in the first run, but you have to say they were thinking more along the lines of future redistribution of the title, and television (before the home videotape recorder) was quite close to that. The possibility of "owning" a durable copy of a program is somewhat newer. However, it's easy to see the good of certainty in knowing that you will be able to use a program or view media in the future, at any time, and even without paying the copyright holder repeatedly. And that's more like how books have been, for a longer time than movies. Music arguably started out with a model more like books, too - there wasn't any prospect of giving people significant "value add" with high-def versions of the first music recordings, because the old Victrola was about as good as the recordings get - and the recordings were out before radio play was a possibility.

Ideally we will get a situation where rights-holders will be able to continue to sell their product to make profits in multiple arenas, even many years after it is produced, but to a point - there is a point beyond which the argument for continued copyright protections is very weak. And it should also be the case that once somebody has licensed media, at great cost to themselves, there should be some kind of mechanism to allow them at least to attempt self-servicing the platform it requires so they can keep using it in the future.

JakeM
05-24-2013, 03:27 AM
I saw this. Pretty shady, Microsoft. IGN reported that they're pretty sure when he was saying for the Kinect to do something, since he had his hand in his pocket, he was switching stuff with that. Who knows if someone behind the scenes didn't manipulate the minimize/maximize effect as well.

Huh, well thats false advertising.

This is like a weird dream, how can Microsoft think theyll be able to sell more than a few hundred thousand of these things before the unknowing people catch on to the evilness of this console?

If Im in a store and I see a dad looking at one for his son then Ill tell him all about the negatives. Infact I wish I could get something like a PTA meeting about this at schools everywhere to tell the parents about all the negatives of the console.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8N72t7aScY

kupomogli
05-24-2013, 11:12 AM
It's not like we don't know why they did it. There's a lot of people in the conference and they wanted to make sure it actually accepted commands and didn't accept commands that it may have heard people in the audience give it. They could have atleast let people know what was going on during the event rather than pull this crap. But when we were told that the applause came from the employees in the back, I guess we shouldn't have expected any sort of legitimacy from the event.

Maybe something good will come from Microsoft's E3 event.

Gameguy
05-24-2013, 11:58 AM
Overall, their used game policy is going to be the major deal breaker for many people.
I found their policy for how used games work, for anyone curious.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57586048-75/microsoft-reportedly-to-take-cut-on-used-xbox-one-game-sales/


It's not like we don't know why they did it. There's a lot of people in the conference and they wanted to make sure it actually accepted commands and didn't accept commands that it may have heard people in the audience give it. They could have atleast let people know what was going on during the event rather than pull this crap. But when we were told that the applause came from the employees in the back, I guess we shouldn't have expected any sort of legitimacy from the event.

Maybe something good will come from Microsoft's E3 event.
The whole gimmick with voice commands could have easily been faked, I watched part of it and all I could think of was someone in the control booth operating the console while the speaker gave voice commands. I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

TonyTheTiger
05-24-2013, 01:05 PM
"To deal in used games, retailers will reportedly have to agree to Microsoft's terms and use Microsoft's online Azure-based pre-owned system."

Yeah, this has trouble written all over it.

Frankie_Says_Relax
05-24-2013, 10:29 PM
"To deal in used games, retailers will reportedly have to agree to Microsoft's terms and use Microsoft's online Azure-based pre-owned system."

Yeah, this has trouble written all over it.

"Physical Media" in this next generation is going to be all but an illusion.

You're buying games on a disc that NEED to be installed and don't place the desired power of choice in the hands of the end-user that the core of this community desires/expects from "physical media".

Even your ability to "sell" the games is going to require doing it at a specific retailer that can handle Microsoft's game-key-monitoring system.

This isn't going to be pretty.

RCM
05-24-2013, 11:35 PM
We should reserve judgement on Microsoft's used game policy until all the facts are clear. Change can be a bitch, but at least our discs will more than likely be pristine. If there's one gigantic positive I've heard it's that publishers/developers will get a piece of Microsoft's used game sales. GameStop has done nothing wrong in aggressively making billions from used games, but it has an effect not only on a publisher's bottom line, but potentially kills titles or franchises with mediocre new game sales. I don't fault M$ for trying to get in on the second hand market while combating piracy at the same time, but it shouldn't be an impediment to honest, paying customers either.

Rev. Link
05-24-2013, 11:45 PM
As someone who works for an independent games retailer, I find the whole used game issue pretty troubling. In fact, between that and the required internet connection our store may decide not to carry the Xbox One at all.

But personally I find the whole Kinect thing to be a much bigger deal. Microsoft is trying to tell me that I have to have a camera and microphone active in my house at all times? Fuck. That. I don't mean to go all tinfoil here, but there's no way in hell I'm hooking that thing up. I don't have the links handy, but have you guys seen the articles floating around about how the new Kinect may possibly be able to tell if you have too many people over to watch a movie? As in, if it detects too many faces that it knows haven't paid for the movie, it won't play it!

I usually buy all the systems, but I will not buy this thing. Maybe if one day someone finds a way to hack it so that Kinect isn't necessary and used games will work, but not until then. If Sony stays cool and doesn't institute the same kind of practices I'll probably get a PS4, but for now I'm perfectly happy with my Wii U.

WCP
05-24-2013, 11:51 PM
So, nobody will be able to sell a game on Ebay or Craigslist ?

If you can't sell it to anybody, then there is no ownership whatsoever. it's a FARCE

RCM
05-24-2013, 11:54 PM
As someone who works for an independent games retailer, I find the whole used game issue pretty troubling. In fact, between that and the required internet connection our store may decide not to carry the Xbox One at all.

But personally I find the whole Kinect thing to be a much bigger deal. Microsoft is trying to tell me that I have to have a camera and microphone active in my house at all times? Fuck. That. I don't mean to go all tinfoil here, but there's no way in hell I'm hooking that thing up. I don't have the links handy, but have you guys seen the articles floating around about how the new Kinect may possibly be able to tell if you have too many people over to watch a movie? As in, if it detects too many faces that it knows haven't paid for the movie, it won't play it!

I usually buy all the systems, but I will not buy this thing. Maybe if one day someone finds a way to hack it so that Kinect isn't necessary and used games will work, but not until then. If Sony stays cool and doesn't institute the same kind of practices I'll probably get a PS4, but for now I'm perfectly happy with my Wii U.

That Kinect film rumor won't materialize. Kinect does have privacy settings, I believe, so you'll be pretty safe. What do you have to hide?!?!?! Heh.

Rev. Link
05-25-2013, 12:18 AM
So, nobody will be able to sell a game on Ebay or Craigslist ?

If you can't sell it to anybody, then there is no ownership whatsoever. it's a FARCE

That's the whole point. You no longer own the games you buy. You own the right to play them.


That Kinect film rumor won't materialize. Kinect does have privacy settings, I believe, so you'll be pretty safe. What do you have to hide?!?!?! Heh.

Even if it doesn't, I still don't want an active camera in my home at all times. Why would anyone? Why would you be okay with letting a large corporation look and listen in on you whenever they want, collecting marketing data on you and selling it? It's one thing for cookies to collect internet data, quite another to have a camera in my living room or bedroom.

WCP
05-25-2013, 01:17 AM
Even if it doesn't, I still don't want an active camera in my home at all times. Why would anyone? Why would you be okay with letting a large corporation look and listen in on you whenever they want, collecting marketing data on you and selling it? It's one thing for cookies to collect internet data, quite another to have a camera in my living room or bedroom.


Here's the thing...

When I first heard about being able to turn the unit on by voice, and then realizing that it will always be "listening", I did take a step back and think.... "Man, this is some real Big Brother type shit right here. For real... I mean, if the NSA could get control of Microsoft's servers and what not, they could pretty much spy on America like never before. I mean, talk about Conspiracy Theories."

Of course, thinking about it more, you gotta imagine there are going to be LOTS of people that aren't going to want this, so I have to imagine that you can turn this feature off. You will be able to go into the settings, and turn off voice recognition for boot up. This way, Kinect won't actually be listening at ALL TIMES. I also imagine that you could have a small black cloth that you can use to block the cameras when not in use.

This is a weird thing though... I mean really... Kinect when turned on, and facing you, and with the voice and facial recognition and everything, it could learn an amazing number of things about the average American family. Especially with all the TV stuff. Think about the Nielsen ratings. Microsoft's "secret" ratings will be much more accurate. It will know exactly when people get up and leave, and how many people are watching various shows, etc, etc. That data will be invaluable to advertisers. They will be able to sell that info for tons of money.

RP2A03
05-25-2013, 01:45 AM
This is a weird thing though... I mean really... Kinect when turned on, and facing you, and with the voice and facial recognition and everything, it could learn an amazing number of things about the average American family. Especially with all the TV stuff. Think about the Nielsen ratings. Microsoft's "secret" ratings will be much more accurate. It will know exactly when people get up and leave, and how many people are watching various shows, etc, etc. That data will be invaluable to advertisers. They will be able to sell that info for tons of money.


And let's not forget about this useful patent application: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120143693%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120143693&RS=DN/20120143693



1. A computer-implemented method to determine emotional states of users that receive advertisements on client devices, the method comprising: monitoring a user's online activity during a time period; processing the online activity to identify a tone associated with content that the user interacted with during the time period; receiving an indication of the user's reaction to the content; and assigning an emotional state to the user based on the tone of the content and the indication of the user's reaction to the content.

2. The computer-implemented method of claim 1, wherein the online activity is stored in a log.

3. The computer-implemented method of claim 1, wherein the online activity comprises browsing history, webpage content, search queries, emails, instant messages, and online games.

4. The computer-implemented method of claim 1, wherein the indication of the user's reaction is identified from facial expressions of the user captured by an image capture device during the time period.

5. The computer-implemented method of claim 1, wherein the indication of the user's reaction is identified from user speech patterns captured by an audio capture device during the time period.

6. The computer-implemented method of claim 1, wherein the indication of the user's reaction is identified from gestures and body movements of the user captured by an image capture device during the time period.

7. The computer-implemented method of claim 1, further comprising storing the emotional state of the user in a database.

8. The computer-implemented method of claim 7, wherein the emotional state is one of: positive, happy, confused, neutral, negative, angry, or sad.

9. The computer-implemented method of claim 8, wherein the emotional state is assigned a duration.

10. A computer system, the computer system comprising: an emotional state database configured to store the emotional states assigned to users; an advertisement database configured to store advertisements and targeting information; and an advertisement engine configured to receive the targeting information, wherein the targeting information includes the desired emotional states of users that advertisers intend to target, and the advertisement engine: processes a request for an advertisement, wherein the request includes an identifier for a user, checks the emotional state database having user identifiers and assigned emotional states to determine the assigned emotional state of the user associated with the identifier included in the request, if the user identifier is in the emotional state database, the advertisement engine retrieves the assigned emotional state of the user and selects from the advertisement database advertisements based on the desired emotional state and the other targeting criteria, wherein the other targeting criteria is related to the user or content, if the user identifier is not in the emotional state database, the advertisement engine selects an advertisement based on the other targeting criteria, and transmits the selected advertisement based on monetization value.

11. The computer system of claim 10, wherein if the user identifier is not in the emotional state database, determining the emotional state of the user.

12. The computer system of claim 10, wherein the other targeting criteria include zip code, keywords, age, location, or language.

13. The computer system of claim 10, wherein the monetization value is based on advertiser bids.

14. The computer system of claim 10, wherein the advertisement database associates an advertisement and an emotional state of the advertisement as specified by the advertiser for the advertisement.

15. The computer system of claim 14, wherein the advertisement database includes a length of time of users the advertisers intend to target is associated the desired emotional state.

16. One or more computer readable media storing computer-useable instructions to determine an emotional state, the method comprising: monitoring a user's online activity during a time period; processing the online activity to identify a tone associated with content that the user interacted with during the time period; receiving an indication of the user's reaction to the content; and assigning an emotional state to the user based on the tone of the content and the indication of the user's reaction to the content.

17. The media of claim 16, wherein the assigned emotional state is normalized based on the statistical average of emotional states assigned to users having processed online activity during the time period.

18. The media of claim 16, wherein the online activity comprises browsing history, webpage content, search queries, emails, instant messages, and online games.

19. The media of claim 16, wherein the indication of the user's reaction is identified from facial expressions of the user captured by an image capture device during the time period.

20. The media of claim 16, wherein the indication of the user's reaction is identified from user speech patterns captured by an audio capture device during the time period.

TonyTheTiger
05-25-2013, 02:08 AM
GameStop has done nothing wrong in aggressively making billions from used games, but it has an effect not only on a publisher's bottom line, but potentially kills titles or franchises with mediocre new game sales.

Tough.

And I say that with as much love for the industry as I possibly can. Tough. Because it's not our job as consumers to understand their financial burden and accommodate them by changing how we do things. It's their job to manage their business in such a way that it's financially sustainable given the realities of the world around them. I'm sick of listening to sob stories about used games when Square Enix pumps $100 million into Tomb Raider and needs it to sell 10 million copies to be a success. It's dishonest.

Tupin
05-25-2013, 02:23 AM
Tough.

And I say that with as much love for the industry as I possibly can. Tough. Because it's not our job as consumers to understand their financial burden and accommodate them by changing how we do things. It's their job to manage their business in such a way that it's financially sustainable given the realities of the world around them. I'm sick of listening to sob stories about used games when Square Enix pumps $100 million into Tomb Raider and needs it to sell 10 million copies to be a success. It's dishonest.
This. Maybe losing a bunch of money will teach them to conduct their business better next time.

kupomogli
05-25-2013, 05:53 AM
This doesn't change the fact that the system is still tied down with DRM, but this seems like used games sales might not be as bad as has first been announced. From this entire article, it really seems that no one at Microsoft knows what the hell they're talking about, honestly.


During this week's Xbox One unveiling, Microsoft officials gave conflicting answers to questions about used games and online requirements. According to an official Q&A from Microsoft, the Xbox One does not "have to be always connected, but does require a connection to the Internet." Speaking with Kotaku, Microsoft's Phil Harrison said that the console would require an internet check every 24 hours.

Microsoft officials later said that was one potential scenario.

Either it requires to connect to the console every 24 hours or it doesn't. Give us one fucking answer. It's like if you were to ask someone from Microsoft one thing, then ask them the same thing 30 minutes later, the answer is completely different. Or maybe their answer keeps changing because of the backlash. They'll keep changing the answer until it's something that works for them but the fanbase isn't too pissed about. The system already requires games to be installed, so it's not like they can go back on that. It's just they were completely unprepared and honestly should have just waited until E3 to release anything.

So anyways, here's what I wanted to post though.


According to Polygon's sources, Microsoft officials haven't yet settled on the specific amount of time that can pass between checks, but that some form of regular check will be required to play games.

The Xbox One will automatically authenticate a game using an encryption code built into a game's disc, when it is installed on the machine. That authentication on the console's hard drive tied to the game is then verified regularly through an internet connection.

This is what we've already heard, but read on.


When a person sells the game or it is installed and played on another system, the game is deauthenticated on the original machine until the disc is brought back and used to re-authenticate the installation.

Our sources also said that there are no plans to charge gamers a fee to sell or reactivate a used game. Earlier today, Microsoft's Larry Hryb touched on the topic of used games on his blog, but didn't say whether fees will be required.

"The ability to trade in and resell games is important to gamers and to Xbox," according to the official statement he included in his post. "Xbox One is designed to support the trade in and resale of games. Reports about our policies for trade in and resale are inaccurate and incomplete. We will disclose more information in the near future."

From the sound of it. It sounds like that you can lend the game to someone else, but when it's activated on their system using the disc. It will, at the same time, deactivate from your system. While this is still bad, as what happens when Xbox One can't authenticate games anymore, it's better than what we've previously heard.

So it seems Ebay sales and lending games are still available. Since they wanted to remove wear and tear from drives though and use complete installs, authenticating the game on a different console is required though so people can't just steal the games. This may be inaccurate as well and the one model that we've all been hearing about might be the official word on it, but we don't know what to believe Microsoft has told us so many different answers to the same questions.

Even if it's this way which isn't as bad as it was the other way, being so unprepared and giving all these different answers is hurting the console more than just shutting up about it. Cheapy D brought up a good point about it on the CAGcast. Microsoft should have said we don't comment on rumors and speculations until they were finally ready to release full details to the press at E3.

*edit*

Eurogamer updated their initial report on the used games issue four times. A different answer? Let's go back and update it again. Who knows. Tomorrow might be another answer and there's no DRM on the Xbox One at all.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-21-xbox-one-second-hand-games-will-charge-a-fee-to-play

Frankie_Says_Relax
05-25-2013, 11:38 AM
We should reserve judgement on Microsoft's used game policy until all the facts are clear. Change can be a bitch, but at least our discs will more than likely be pristine. If there's one gigantic positive I've heard it's that publishers/developers will get a piece of Microsoft's used game sales. GameStop has done nothing wrong in aggressively making billions from used games, but it has an effect not only on a publisher's bottom line, but potentially kills titles or franchises with mediocre new game sales. I don't fault M$ for trying to get in on the second hand market while combating piracy at the same time, but it shouldn't be an impediment to honest, paying customers either.

If it turns out that they have an easy to use, foolproof, ultra secure, completely reliable system in place that even the smallest of used-game retailer can utilize (mom/pop stores, eBay sellers, etc.) and allows the consumer to continue to buy used at the prices that they're accustomed to - I'll be absolutely fine with it.

Though, I'm also not holding my breath for any of the above to come to fruition.

RCM
05-25-2013, 01:20 PM
Tough.

And I say that with as much love for the industry as I possibly can. Tough. Because it's not our job as consumers to understand their financial burden and accommodate them by changing how we do things. It's their job to manage their business in such a way that it's financially sustainable given the realities of the world around them. I'm sick of listening to sob stories about used games when Square Enix pumps $100 million into Tomb Raider and needs it to sell 10 million copies to be a success. It's dishonest.

And some successful businesses do that, and consumers adapt to change along the way. I'm not worried about the big boys crying, but I am concerned about the smaller publishers and developers who take risks and aren't rewarded due to used sales and/or piracy. It does happen, and I weep.

TonyTheTiger
05-25-2013, 03:14 PM
And some successful businesses do that, and consumers adapt to change along the way. I'm not worried about the big boys crying, but I am concerned about the smaller publishers and developers who take risks and aren't rewarded due to used sales and/or piracy. It does happen, and I weep.

Used sales and piracy are as much a reality as anything else and should be factored into the metrics as any other statistic would be when financing a project. These aren't surprises that jump out at unsuspecting publishers to wreck their shit. Publishers and developers are on notice and should plan accordingly. If GameStop's business is really enough to drive you bankrupt that's not because it's an unfair world. It's because you did a bad job. Too many game companies seem to be barely solvent where they're always one flop away from total collapse. This is not a healthy way for the industry to operate, regardless of whether we're talking small studios or publishing giants. I'm of the opinion that, outside of a handful of particularly huge franchises, if a game sells "only" a million units it should be a clear success. I'm convinced investing more money than a million sales can recoup is foolish unless you have a really good reason, such as if you're game is Madden or Call of Duty. There is absolutely no reason, however, for a brand new IP like Kingdoms of Almur to need to move over three million units to get out of the red. But it did. And it failed.

Bojay1997
05-25-2013, 04:06 PM
Used sales and piracy are as much a reality as anything else and should be factored into the metrics as any other statistic would be when financing a project. These aren't surprises that jump out at unsuspecting publishers to wreck their shit. Publishers and developers are on notice and should plan accordingly. If GameStop's business is really enough to drive you bankrupt that's not because it's an unfair world. It's because you did a bad job. Too many game companies seem to be barely solvent where they're always one flop away from total collapse. This is not a healthy way for the industry to operate, regardless of whether we're talking small studios or publishing giants. I'm of the opinion that, outside of a handful of particularly huge franchises, if a game sells "only" a million units it should be a clear success. I'm convinced investing more money than a million sales can recoup is foolish unless you have a really good reason, such as if you're game is Madden or Call of Duty. There is absolutely no reason, however, for a brand new IP like Kingdoms of Almur to need to move over three million units to get out of the red. But it did. And it failed.

While I agree that they're a reality, just like any other factor that can negatively impact a business, it doesn't mean that the business owner should just throw up their hands and say "well, it's gonna happen so I guess I'll just live with a less profitable and less successful business". This idea that large multinational corporations like EA and Activision can somehow go back to a world where only a handful of games are released every year with much more modest budgets is just not realistic. Shareholders won't tolerate it. The movie business has struggled with this same problem for decades and while there are certainly studios that make smaller movies, the most profitable studios still make most of their money from big buget films. I personally hate what Microsoft is doing, but in fairness, they see a problem in their business model and they are responding to it. It's now up to consumers to decide if they want to follow Microsoft down this path or hold out for some other reality.

Griking
05-25-2013, 09:44 PM
That is the worst console name in video game history.

The Nintendo Wii disagrees.

Rev. Link
05-26-2013, 11:01 AM
If it turns out that they have an easy to use, foolproof, ultra secure, completely reliable system in place that even the smallest of used-game retailer can utilize (mom/pop stores, eBay sellers, etc.) and allows the consumer to continue to buy used at the prices that they're accustomed to - I'll be absolutely fine with it.

Though, I'm also not holding my breath for any of the above to come to fruition.

Even if that winds up being the case, there's still the fact that Kinect has to be plugged in for it to function. I just don't see how anyone can justify that. How can any consumer say "Yeah, to play these games I need to have an active camera and microphone recording everything I do in my home at all times, but I'm totally fine with that!"?

JakeM
05-26-2013, 11:55 AM
Its just weird how this information is trickling out, first its just a fee, then a whole network for used game sales to be counted and money to be distributed from stores like Game Stop. The direct fee the user pays on XBL to activate their used game is probably way more easier to control and manage than a whole system they have to set up with the middleman (stores) from money people could just pay on XBL. So whats the point of this? If they dont like Game Stop, just dont let them be a middle man for the used game fees.

WCP
05-26-2013, 03:17 PM
So whats the point of this? If they dont like Game Stop, just dont let them be a middle man for the used game fees.

It's baby steps.


Microsoft knows that their next console, after Xbox One, will be digital download only, and for them, it's just a matter of getting there from where we are now. They know that they still need brick and mortar retailers in 2013, 2014 and 2015. By the time we get to 2016, I can see them getting much more aggressive with basically telling the retailers to kiss their ass. What I mean is, I think you'll see Steam-like sales on the platform by around 2016 that will really affect the retail market, but by that time, MS won't really care. They know it's only a matter of time before they get their wish.

So, in the meantime, they are going to try to slowly erode and chip away at the end users rights, and slowly chip away at the part that retail plays in the whole thing.

Frankie_Says_Relax
05-26-2013, 06:58 PM
Even if that winds up being the case, there's still the fact that Kinect has to be plugged in for it to function. I just don't see how anyone can justify that. How can any consumer say "Yeah, to play these games I need to have an active camera and microphone recording everything I do in my home at all times, but I'm totally fine with that!"?

While I can appreciate anybody who values their privacy and is offended by the notion of being watched, I'm not one of those people.

Let Microsoft watch/listen to me via Kinect all day, they're probably not ever going to hear/see anything particularly interesting.

BHvrd
05-26-2013, 08:04 PM
I wonder if you have to sign a two year agreement when you purchase the Xbox One. I mean surely they have to find a way to lock in the rates so you can get your games for $39.99 a month, cable for $99.99 a month w/tivo record service at an extra $10/month and also $10.00 per GB over on streaming service.

They better lock these suckers down with that two year agreement and fantastic discounts or nobody is going to buy one.

TonyTheTiger
05-26-2013, 11:57 PM
It's baby steps.


Microsoft knows that their next console, after Xbox One, will be digital download only, and for them, it's just a matter of getting there from where we are now. They know that they still need brick and mortar retailers in 2013, 2014 and 2015. By the time we get to 2016, I can see them getting much more aggressive with basically telling the retailers to kiss their ass. What I mean is, I think you'll see Steam-like sales on the platform by around 2016 that will really affect the retail market, but by that time, MS won't really care. They know it's only a matter of time before they get their wish.

So, in the meantime, they are going to try to slowly erode and chip away at the end users rights, and slowly chip away at the part that retail plays in the whole thing.

What baffles me is why major retail chains would be Microsoft's accomplice. Even Best Buy is getting into used games now. And considering that store in particular is known as the Amazon Showroom, it's looking to make a buck on whatever it can. It would be one thing for Microsoft to present the One as an "ordinary" disc-based console that just happens to have every single game also available via download and then after retail makes it a success and once they feel comfortable doing so, going exclusively digital. That would at least make some sense. But this particular method essentially requires retail cooperation from the get go. Microsoft tipped its hand. And retailers now have a legitimate interest to see that the model fails. Digital or not, the delivery method doesn't mean shit to publishers if the console itself doesn't succeed.