Gauntlet Legends

[Polygon]

I've been wanting to get this and it's on my N64 wishlist. Too bad people want quite a bit for a complete copy. Recently I found out it came on the Dreamcast as well. I assume they're the same game? Should I just get the Dreamcast version and forget about the N64 version?

[bigbacon]

I am curious what you mean by a lot of money?

I see it going on ebay for as low as like 14.99, which to me isn't a lot of money. As not a big time collector, I think my perception of expensive isn't on the level of other collectors.

[Gameguy]

It's also on the PS1, I'm not sure if that would be another option in addition to the Dreamcast version. I previously had the game on N64 and I found it just decent, I didn't keep it. Maybe getting a cheaper version would be better.



I am curious what you mean by a lot of money?

I see it going on ebay for as low as like 14.99, which to me isn't a lot of money. As not a big time collector, I think my perception of expensive isn't on the level of other collectors.
He said complete, which is about $30-$40 in most cases.

[wiggyx]

30-40 CIB doesn't seem pricey for a CIB cart game, but that may just be the SNES collector in me.

As others have said, it's the same game across the platforms. I'd just grab the DC version if I were worried about price.

[Polygon]

Well, I guess it's not really that expensive. I just figured if I can get it on the DC cheaper I'd rather spend that money on a game that I do really want that's is expensive on the N64.

[bb_hood]

Get the XBOX version, its the best one out there. Its actually challenging, and quite a bit longer. The other versions are much easier.

[klausien]

Get the XBOX version, its the best one out there. Its actually challenging, and quite a bit longer. The other versions are much easier.

The Xbox version is Dark Legacy. If you want the arcade game at home, the DC version is the way to go but I also recommend Dark Legacy. It's basically the original with an expansion pack. Great game. I may need to bust it out today.

[Polygon]

I was going to say... I didn't think that version was on the X-Box. I'll have to check Dark Legacy out though. Always looking for recommendations.

[kupomogli]

Dreamcast version is better graphically, but way zoomed in. N64 is zoomed further out, still has good graphics, just not quite as good looking as the Dreamcast version. PSX version is the worst. Graphics are pretty terrible in comparison to even the N64 version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5aQVmTed1o Dreamcast and N64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbYFWF0sRTU PSX

[Doonzmore]

I own the Dreamcast and N64 versions and I think the N64 version holds up pretty well given the hardware. It's a great game to bust out when friends are over. I haven't played the arcade version so I don't know which is more faithful, but a few differences I can think of is that the Dreamcast version has more characters (the Dwarf and the Jester) and different bosses (Djinn and Arachna Queen).

And, not surprisingly, the N64 version is missing the cut scenes.

[Polygon]

Well, it looks like I can get it on the DC for about half. I think I'll do that. Thinking about doing the same with Hydro Thunder. I'm also thinking about ditching Star Craft 64 all together.

[Greg2600]

I have Hydro Thunder on DC and N64. The DC version is far superior graphically. The N64 version looked great for that system though. Hydro is about the same $ on both, maybe cheaper on DC because the N64 version wasn't a top seller.

[Polygon]

I have Hydro Thunder on DC and N64. The DC version is far superior graphically. The N64 version looked great for that system though. Hydro is about the same $ on both, maybe cheaper on DC because the N64 version wasn't a top seller.

Yeah, I was looking and they're about the same price. However, it's tough to find a copy for the N64 with a nice box. Mind as well get the DC version. Just removed both from my N64 list and I just bought Gauntlet Legends for the DC for $23 in mint condition. Now I just need to decide about StarCraft. I just don't think it's worth it.

[Greg2600]

Only thing with Hydro Thunder on DC is be sure it's the one where the jewel case says Hot New or something. I think the very earliest copies have some kind of bug. And I think it's not compatible with VGA.

[davidbrit2]

DC version is much more faithful to the arcade, in terms of realms that are available, as well as inventory management (or rather, lack thereof). Some of the stages have been reworked to varying degrees; you'll notice some pretty big differences in the first couple of mountain realm stages.

Personally, I'd go with Dark Legacy, though.

[o.pwuaioc]

Get the XBOX version, its the best one out there. Its actually challenging, and quite a bit longer. The other versions are much easier.

Do you have any specifics on why the Xbox version is better?

[goldenband]

I've read from several different sources that the N64 version of Gauntlet Legends is the best version. There's an informative post on Sega-16 from A Black Falcon (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?16389-How-accurate-is-the-DC-Gauntlet-Legends) that details some of the reasons why. (There's a little more here (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?20779-Because-the-Nintendo-64-is-great-Short-reviews-of-all-N64-games-I-own-(in-progress)) too.)

I've played through the N64 version twice with my fiancée (on two different difficulty levels), and she really enjoyed it, so the PS1 version is on our list. Eventually we'll hit the Dreamcast version too.

[A Black Falcon]

Gah, all three of those posts you linked to are out of date; in 2012 I went back and looked at the games again, and realized that I'd made some mistakes in my previous analysis... Here's a link to my most in-depth Gauntlet Legends/Dark Legacy comparison. I think I cover everything, in detail too. Particularly read the charts in post 24, though the first two posts are important as well.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339131

In short... my favorite version of Legends is the N64 version. Pair it with the GC or Xbox versions of Dark Legacy to play everything except for that one level exclusive to the otherwise-poor PS1 version of Legends. But the different versions of Legends have MANY differences, and they are huge. Read through the list there and you'll see what I mean. It's kind of crazy how massive the differences are between the different versions of Legends, in terms of which levels are in each version, what interface systems they have, health purchasing, saving items, etc etc etc. I guess I could post all that stuff from that thread here too, if someone wants me to...


The Xbox version is Dark Legacy. If you want the arcade game at home, the DC version is the way to go but I also recommend Dark Legacy. It's basically the original with an expansion pack. Great game. I may need to bust it out today.
While the DC version is closer to being the arcade game at home than the other console releases, it's not the exact same thing as the arcade version. See the thread I link above.


DC version is much more faithful to the arcade, in terms of realms that are available, as well as inventory management (or rather, lack thereof). Some of the stages have been reworked to varying degrees; you'll notice some pretty big differences in the first couple of mountain realm stages.

Personally, I'd go with Dark Legacy, though.
The different level designs in some levels is one of the few reasons I'd recommend looking up the DC version, for serious fans... otherwise, seriously, no item saving is a horrible pain in a console game, and versions of Legends or Dark Legacy where you can't buy health in the store, forcing you to grind for health instead... yeah, forget that!

[goldenband]

I appreciate the link to your updated comments. I noticed one small mistake -- there's no Atari 2600 version of Gauntlet, that's a totally unrelated game under the same title, and predates the arcade game.

Also, could you clarify what you mean by "no item saving" in the PS1 version? Specifically, does it mean that your inventory is stable during any one session, but is lost when you restart from a saved game? I'm surprised that's not itemized under the Item System entry if so, as it's a big deal and deserves to be highlighted.

[A Black Falcon]

I appreciate the link to your updated comments.
Should I post that stuff on Sega-16 too, or something? :)


I noticed one small mistake -- there's no Atari 2600 version of Gauntlet, that's a totally unrelated game under the same title, and predates the arcade game.
Thanks for the correction, I'll fix that.


Also, could you clarify what you mean by "no item saving" in the PS1 version? Specifically, does it mean that your inventory is stable during any one session, but is lost when you restart from a saved game? I'm surprised that's not itemized under the Item System entry if so, as it's a big deal and deserves to be highlighted.
Oops, that's something I should have removed but missed when doing that 2012 edit. I got the PS1 version last year, and it does let you save your items, as I say in the list lower in the thread. That it has only one (not that hard) difficulty level really is pretty bizarre though...

[goldenband]

A Black Falcon, I've been playing the PlayStation version with my fiancée, and I have a couple more notes for your comparison thread at NeoGAF (or wherever you post it henceforth):

- I'm pretty sure you can't sell items in this version; at least, I haven't found a way to do so, and I've noted other people online saying the same thing (see here (http://www.amazon.com/review/R3RDDNT45RMYZ4/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B000021Y4U&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5LR9oBSpNw)). If that's incorrect and you can sell items, I'd love to know how!

- One really annoying thing is that the monster generators respawn after a while, and with very little warning (I've had them basically materialize on my character many times). It's not much of a problem in terms of combat -- but it's disorienting since, in the N64 version, clearing an area of monsters would make it easy to tell which places you've explored. Here, that's not possible. (I don't know whether the arcade version is like the PS1 or N64 version in this respect, but if that trait is unique to the N64 version it's another point in its favor -- and if it's a flaw unique to the PS1 version, it's a serious demerit IMHO.)

Together with the missing compass, that makes it harder to navigate the levels. Speaking of the compass, I think that's worth noting, i.e. whether the compass is present in each of the ports (as it is in the N64 version).

As you note, the presentation on the PS1 version is decidedly inferior to the N64 version. I also find it quite a bit harder to aim, especially when you're aiming at a monster on a different plane. Also, the camera is tighter and doesn't let the two players separate nearly as much. Really, it's inferior in pretty much every way I've identified; it even seems to have less voice acting in certain places, which is bizarre in a CD vs. cart scenario.

[A Black Falcon]

Thanks for your comments. There's only one thing I definitely still want to find out about Gauntlet Legends/Dark Legacy that I know might be wrong in my writeup: Are the altered level maps in the Dreamcast GL game DC-original and exclusive to that version, or do they come from one of the arcade games? I said that they come from the arcades, but it'd be nice to have proof of if that is indeed true, or if actually they redid some level designs for the Dreamcast and Dreamcast only (since the Dark Legacy games aren't based off of the DC version).

Oh, and Wikia's Gauntlet Legends article says that some PS1 levels were reduced in size versus the other versions of the game. Have you noticed this yourself? I'd believe it for sure if it's true given all the other problems with the game and because of how often PS1 games have smaller areas than N64 ones, but I'd like to know for certain. http://gauntlet.wikia.com/wiki/Gauntlet:_Legends


A Black Falcon, I've been playing the PlayStation version with my fiancée, and I have a couple more notes for your comparison thread at NeoGAF (or wherever you post it henceforth):
It has that many major problems, and you're sticking with it? Why, just to see the one exclusive level at the end? Your comments are helpful, but they only highlight how bad the PS1 version really is...

If you're wondering why the PS1 version is missing the details below, that's why -- it was pretty awful and I only played it the minimum amount possible to try to cover all the categories. Obviously I missed a few things.


- I'm pretty sure you can't sell items in this version; at least, I haven't found a way to do so, and I've noted other people online saying the same thing (see here (http://www.amazon.com/review/R3RDDNT45RMYZ4/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B000021Y4U&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5LR9oBSpNw)). If that's incorrect and you can sell items, I'd love to know how!
No, I think that you are correct. You can buy stuff, but there doesn't seem to find any way to sell. At least you can buy health though. Being able to sell is important, but being able to buy health is even more important. I probably didn't even check if you could sell, and just assumed that you could because you can sell at least something in every other version of the game with a store. Big mistake there...


- One really annoying thing is that the monster generators respawn after a while, and with very little warning (I've had them basically materialize on my character many times). It's not much of a problem in terms of combat -- but it's disorienting since, in the N64 version, clearing an area of monsters would make it easy to tell which places you've explored. Here, that's not possible. (I don't know whether the arcade version is like the PS1 or N64 version in this respect, but if that trait is unique to the N64 version it's another point in its favor -- and if it's a flaw unique to the PS1 version, it's a serious demerit IMHO.)
Oh wow, the generators RESPAWN? How had I missed that? I just played a level of the game, and yeah, you're right. No, that is DEFINITELY not normal! I've never seen respawning monster generators in a Gauntlet game before... before this PS1 thing, that is. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that no other version of the game does that.


Together with the missing compass, that makes it harder to navigate the levels. Speaking of the compass, I think that's worth noting, i.e. whether the compass is present in each of the ports (as it is in the N64 version).
I actually didn't notice that myself because I never use the compass... I guess it's there in most versions, but it doesn't help me navigate at all (I do fine in most stages just by navigating based on the level map itself, only a few were confusing), so I just ignore it. I don't know if it's missing from any versions other than the PS1.


As you note, the presentation on the PS1 version is decidedly inferior to the N64 version. I also find it quite a bit harder to aim, especially when you're aiming at a monster on a different plane.
Yeah, the controls and game speed are pretty bad on the PS1. Midway's PS1 ports were consistently poor, they obviously had their better teams working on the arcades and N64 (and Dreamcast) at the time.


Also, the camera is tighter and doesn't let the two players separate nearly as much. Really, it's inferior in pretty much every way I've identified; it even seems to have less voice acting in certain places, which is bizarre in a CD vs. cart scenario.
Cheap late port. Midway obviously didn't care.

[T2KFreeker]

Only thing with Hydro Thunder on DC is be sure it's the one where the jewel case says Hot New or something. I think the very earliest copies have some kind of bug. And I think it's not compatible with VGA.

The reworked Hydro Thunder with the fixed save system has the green sticker on the front of the case. Get that one OR the Sega All Stars Versions with the black spine on the instruction booklet and the orange down where the Dreamcast logo on the side of the CD is that says Sega All Stars. Either of those versions have the fixed Save State bug removed. Also, the Dreamcast version has better controls as well than the Nintendo 64 version, sorry.

[A Black Falcon]

The reworked Hydro Thunder with the fixed save system has the green sticker on the front of the case. Get that one OR the Sega All Stars Versions with the black spine on the instruction booklet and the orange down where the Dreamcast logo on the side of the CD is that says Sega All Stars. Either of those versions have the fixed Save State bug removed. Also, the Dreamcast version has better controls as well than the Nintendo 64 version, sorry.

What is the bug?

[goldenband]

Oh, and Wikia's Gauntlet Legends article says that some PS1 levels were reduced in size versus the other versions of the game. Have you noticed this yourself?

It's been too long since we played the N64 version to be sure; some levels are clearly the same, though. We'll no doubt know more as we progress further into the game.


It has that many major problems, and you're sticking with it? Why, just to see the one exclusive level at the end?

Mainly just because my fiancée enjoys the game, and so we've made a project of playing through the different versions. We played through the N64 version twice last year (or the year before?), on two different difficulties, and we'll take on the Dreamcast version once we've completed the PS1 game.


Oh wow, the generators RESPAWN? How had I missed that? I just played a level of the game, and yeah, you're right. No, that is DEFINITELY not normal! I've never seen respawning monster generators in a Gauntlet game before... before this PS1 thing, that is. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that no other version of the game does that.

It's pretty awful, isn't it? It really disrupts the flow of the game -- no idea why they did that.



I actually didn't notice that myself because I never use the compass... I guess it's there in most versions, but it doesn't help me navigate at all (I do fine in most stages just by navigating based on the level map itself, only a few were confusing), so I just ignore it.

We found it helpful in the N64 version because it made it easier to track exactly which cardinal direction the door-opening switches were pointing in, so that if there was a long distance between them we'd still know where (generally speaking) to look. I'm not looking forward to the one Plague level we struggled with in the N64 version -- that'll be 3x as confusing with no compass and respawns! @_@

[A Black Falcon]

It's been too long since we played the N64 version to be sure; some levels are clearly the same, though. We'll no doubt know more as we progress further into the game.
I updated some of this information into the thread I linked, but some stuff I just have in the file on my HDD; I'd like to know the answer to this question first, before I post a full update. I've played PS1 GL some myself of course, and will play it some more, but it'd also be great to hear what you think (about the level designs).

On the note of level designs, the other major question I have is about whether the changed level designs in the Dreamcast version are DC-exclusive, or if they come from one of the arcade games. I'm unclear on this point, and it's kind of frustrating... it's an important thing that I need to know. I kind of thought that they came from the arcade versions, but I'm not certain.


Mainly just because my fiancée enjoys the game, and so we've made a project of playing through the different versions. We played through the N64 version twice last year (or the year before?), on two different difficulties, and we'll take on the Dreamcast version once we've completed the PS1 game.
Ah. See above about my big question about the DC version, though as you haven't played the arcade games, I doubt you can help much.


It's pretty awful, isn't it? It really disrupts the flow of the game -- no idea why they did that.
Yeah, it really does. It's okay for linear stages, but in anything with backtracking? What a pain! Of course the game is easy anyway, since it has no difficulty setting and the one setting it has is easy, but still, what were they thinking...


We found it helpful in the N64 version because it made it easier to track exactly which cardinal direction the door-opening switches were pointing in, so that if there was a long distance between them we'd still know where (generally speaking) to look. I'm not looking forward to the one Plague level we struggled with in the N64 version -- that'll be 3x as confusing with no compass and respawns! @_@
Ah. I'm good with maps, but just a compass doesn't help me much...

[motley6]

As far as the Nintendo 64 version goes, can anyone comment as to the difference using the 4MB Expansion Pak or not? Does it increase resolution and or colors, does the frame rate suffer, etc?

[needler420]

As far as the Nintendo 64 version goes, can anyone comment as to the difference using the 4MB Expansion Pak or not? Does it increase resolution and or colors, does the frame rate suffer, etc?

I am pretty sure using the expansion pak will increase resolution. I'm not sure about frame rate. I do know you need the expansion pak to play multiplayer.


If you watch youtube videos of gameplay you can see the difference in graphics from those using the expansion pak compared to the jumper pak.


Kind of nice seeing a thread on this game. I just happened to pick up the N64 version last weekend at the flea market for $4 bucks. Still have yet to play it. Can't get away from SNOWBOARD KIDS!

[HappehLemons]

I wrote all about this topic on an Archive article. Should help you out.

Choosing the Best Version of Gauntlet Legends
http://archive.vg/blog/17-which-should-you-play/37-gauntlet-legends-which-should-you-play

[goldenband]

Oh, and Wikia's Gauntlet Legends article says that some PS1 levels were reduced in size versus the other versions of the game. Have you noticed this yourself? I'd believe it for sure if it's true given all the other problems with the game and because of how often PS1 games have smaller areas than N64 ones, but I'd like to know for certain. http://gauntlet.wikia.com/wiki/Gauntlet:_Legends

Just to get back to you on this: after playing further into the PS1 version, I can't say I've noticed any downsized levels per se (though as I said it's been a while since we played through the N64 game). But some of the Ice Domain levels have been separated into two or three "parts" that load separately, with individual loading screens (that say Part 1, Part 2, etc.). You exit via a standard exit, but get bumped right into the next "part". And once you cross into Part 2, you can't go back to Part 1.

I'm pretty sure those levels ran together continuously in the N64 version (certainly there were no loading screens!), but I don't remember whether any of them cut you off from backtracking.

BTW will you be adding the bit about respawning monster generators to your NeoGAF post?

[TheRetroVideoGameAddict]

I have this on the N64 and it isn't a bad game, I would assume the Dreamcast version will look and sound better but there is just something about playing this game on the N64 that just feels like home.