How to avoid RF signal loss in older consoles AND ways to convert to composite

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Two things here. First, I'm interested in knowing what kinds of things can cause RF signal loss in older systems. At one point, I was using mechanical splitters as a way to have multiple RF systems to a TV, but the quality was degraded. I'm already aware that the longer a cable is, the more the signal degrades. Same goes for using splitters. Also, I know that an "F" Jack Connector to Phono Plug produces a better signal that the RF switchboxes that originally came with the systems.

But there's more I'd like to know:
-Would wrapping an RF cable with electrical tape reduce interference?
-If some RF cords are better at maintaining a signal that others? If so, how do I know before I buy it? If it's thick, does that mean it's better shielded? Is there any kind of labeling on the packaging or the cord itself that would indicate how good it is at carrying a signal?
-Does an amplifier clear things up, or make things worse, in terms of picture quality?
-If an RF cord has other wires touching it, does that cause interference? I mean like other shielded wires that would be tied together with it. If so, what if those other wires were not in use, carrying no signals?
-Does curving an RF wire cause interference? For example, if you were to wrap it around something.


I would also like to know if any of you have had success at converting RF to composite. I know that VCRs can do this. I have tried it on one VCR, but the image looks a little washed out. Here's my questions:
-Are some VCRs better converting than others? If so, can you recommend a model or brand?
-What other kinds of devices are good at this? How about those digital converter boxes that have an "antenna in" connector?

[skaar]

From casual experience I can offer the following notes from my childhood.

Clean power is a must, a good surge bar or power bar with conditioning seems to make a huge difference. Certain things (like my mom using the hand mixer in the other room) used to mess with the signal greatly.

You can have a chain of hookups just fine up to 4-5 as long as the connections are clean. Certain consoles seem to put in a background signal/feedback into the chain when hooked up. I remember my TG-16 being a jerk for this.

You want to make sure the individual boxes aren't resting too close to the TV or near anything that puts off interference. Speakers can be horrible for this.

No idea if this is of any use to you or just common sense, but I felt a need to ramble.

On the RF > composite, I found JVCs to be awesome at it. Being as VCRs tend to be $10-$20 in pawn shops, this is probably a cheap experiment.

[Polygon]

Would wrapping an RF cable with electrical tape reduce interference? No.

If some RF cords are better at maintaining a signal that others? If so, how do I know before I buy it? If it's thick, does that mean it's better shielded? Is there any kind of labeling on the packaging or the cord itself that would indicate how good it is at carrying a signal? On paper, sure. In the real world the differences are negligible.

Does an amplifier clear things up, or make things worse, in terms of picture quality? Yes, but really only for longer runs. Cleaner signal is more important.

If an RF cord has other wires touching it, does that cause interference? I mean like other shielded wires that would be tied together with it. If so, what if those other wires were not in use, carrying no signals? It's possible if either are poorly shielded. However, with such a low amount of voltage running through them, it's highly unlikely.

Does curving an RF wire cause interference? For example, if you were to wrap it around something. Nope.

Are some VCRs better converting than others? If so, can you recommend a model or brand?
What other kinds of devices are good at this? How about those digital converter boxes that have an "antenna in" connector?

I don't know the answer to these questions, but I can tell you this... garbage in, garbage out. If you're starting with a garbage signal such as R/F it doesn't matter if you step to HDMI. The source is still crap. I suggest modding the system to output at least a composite signal. A lot of people do this these days. But S-Video would be preferable.

[Dashopepper]

I don't think I've ever thought, "this Odyssey 2 looks like crap, I need to s-video mod the shit out of it." The biggest thing I've found in daisy chaining RF switches together is that the switch goes bad and causes signal loss for everything down the line. With good RF switches you can be 6 deep with not much noticeable loss. Unfortunately for older consoles that don't like RF switches like intellivision/Atari/odyssey you have to plug them into the end of the chain with a RCA to coax F converter and switch them out. It seems like these systems don't like any kind of switch that I've used so far without major loss.

[Polygon]

I don't think I've ever thought, "this Odyssey 2 looks like crap, I need to s-video mod the shit out of it."

That's not what I was getting at. It just makes things easier so you don't have to worry about inference from a crappy R/F modulator. Also, it seems he wants to improve signal quality as well. I was just say the way he was thinking isn't the right way to do it.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

Thanks for all the answers so far guys. Just to be clear, I was using some of these to hook multiple RF consoles to the TV:

6699

Like Dashopepper mentioned, some consoles don't perform well when they go through those things. Right now I'm trying to design a setup that doesn't use them at all. Composite mods are not out of the question, but I don't have the skills to do them myself, nor do I want to send all nine of my old systems to someone to mod.

[theclaw]

Yeah think of 1986 as the cut off. Master System introduced RGB output to US consoles on a wide scale.
Most things earlier that aren't a computer (say Amiga) have design limits to composite or s-video.