Exposing VGA (Video Game Grading Authority)

[JakeM]

oh sorry. i didnt know the terminology they use and I honestly dont care for much of the lingo in general.

But, if you hate that side of them, why think theyre justified in grading your games?

[TheRedEye]

VGA argument threads are hilarious to me.

1. The stuff they're grading was never going to be opened or played. Period. So putting it in a plastic tomb isn't depriving anyone in the entire world from playing it (except for undumped protos, which is HORRIFYING, but blaming VGA for that is shooting the messenger).

2. Some people want perfect, sealed games in their possession. Get over it. You might have a hobby that a sealed video game collector doesn't relate to. Their hobby is in no way interfering with your own: see #1.

3. People who want sealed games are often willing to pay extra for the peace of mind of knowing that what they're getting is authentic, and that it meets certain criteria. That criteria is, yes, a company's opinion that you may or may not agree with, but for the most part it's "good enough" - if you want a more-or-less flawless copy of a game, you'll know from one photograph on eBay if a VGA'd game meets your personal criteria. For people like that, it's a pretty good service.

4. The VGA isn't, as far as anyone knows, making non-sealed games more expensive. Unless you are a sealed game collector, the VGA is not affecting you at all.

5. Yes, people grade things needlessly: the $15 game example in the video, grading currently-available stuff, etc. is all pretty stupid. But who cares? How does that hurt you? People make dumb decisions, and they pay for it. If you want to get angry about people throwing money away, go protest against legalized gambling or something.

Full disclosure: I don't collect sealed games, but I have employed the VGA to grade high value items that I am selling on commission for, basically, customer service reasons.

[Buyatari]

oh sorry. i didnt know the terminology they use and I honestly dont care for much of the lingo in general.

But, if you hate that side of them, why think theyre justified in grading your games?

Qualifed in most cases means not sealed.

Can you think of any examples of products that you buy from companies that also offer other products you want no part of. You don't boycott the items you want because of it, you just avoid buying those you don't. If you have a favorite beer would you stop drinking it because they also offered a Lite Beer which in some cases is the exact same beer mixed with water?

[JakeM]

Your example is bad...
Hes paying money for their credibility and opinion. If he doesnt like that theyre also grading those other things, which he sees as a joke, then the joke is on him for giving them his money for them to do the same thing with his stuff.

[The 1 2 P]

VGA argument threads are hilarious to me.

1. The stuff they're grading was never going to be opened or played. Period. So putting it in a plastic tomb isn't depriving anyone in the entire world from playing it (except for undumped protos, which is HORRIFYING, but blaming VGA for that is shooting the messenger).

2. Some people want perfect, sealed games in their possession. Get over it. You might have a hobby that a sealed video game collector doesn't relate to. Their hobby is in no way interfering with your own: see #1.

3. People who want sealed games are often willing to pay extra for the peace of mind of knowing that what they're getting is authentic, and that it meets certain criteria. That criteria is, yes, a company's opinion that you may or may not agree with, but for the most part it's "good enough" - if you want a more-or-less flawless copy of a game, you'll know from one photograph on eBay if a VGA'd game meets your personal criteria. For people like that, it's a pretty good service.

4. The VGA isn't, as far as anyone knows, making non-sealed games more expensive. Unless you are a sealed game collector, the VGA is not affecting you at all.

5. Yes, people grade things needlessly: the $15 game example in the video, grading currently-available stuff, etc. is all pretty stupid. But who cares? How does that hurt you? People make dumb decisions, and they pay for it. If you want to get angry about people throwing money away, go protest against legalized gambling or something.

Full disclosure: I don't collect sealed games, but I have employed the VGA to grade high value items that I am selling on commission for, basically, customer service reasons.

Well said. I also don't collect VGA games but I have sold one. In that case, I took a sealed game that wouldn't sell for $200 and after it was graded I sold it for $650. So I have a positive experience with the VGA. Having said that, that was done over two years ago and I don't regularly get games graded because usually the stuff that sells the most isn't just sealed but also rare and uncommon. Still, I have never understood all the hate towards them. I get that some people don't like it but as already pointed out VGA graded games isn't really affecting anyone. There will always be enough playable copies of just about everything.

[Buyatari]

VGA argument threads are hilarious to me.

1. The stuff they're grading was never going to be opened or played. Period. So putting it in a plastic tomb isn't depriving anyone in the entire world from playing it (except for undumped protos, which is HORRIFYING, but blaming VGA for that is shooting the messenger).

2. Some people want perfect, sealed games in their possession. Get over it. You might have a hobby that a sealed video game collector doesn't relate to. Their hobby is in no way interfering with your own: see #1.

3. People who want sealed games are often willing to pay extra for the peace of mind of knowing that what they're getting is authentic, and that it meets certain criteria. That criteria is, yes, a company's opinion that you may or may not agree with, but for the most part it's "good enough" - if you want a more-or-less flawless copy of a game, you'll know from one photograph on eBay if a VGA'd game meets your personal criteria. For people like that, it's a pretty good service.

4. The VGA isn't, as far as anyone knows, making non-sealed games more expensive. Unless you are a sealed game collector, the VGA is not affecting you at all.

5. Yes, people grade things needlessly: the $15 game example in the video, grading currently-available stuff, etc. is all pretty stupid. But who cares? How does that hurt you? People make dumb decisions, and they pay for it. If you want to get angry about people throwing money away, go protest against legalized gambling or something.

Full disclosure: I don't collect sealed games, but I have employed the VGA to grade high value items that I am selling on commission for, basically, customer service reasons.

1a. Agree
1b. It isn't like a prototype can't be unopened by someone else late so it is the same as the reasoning with 1a.

4. I would disagree with rising sealed pricing have no correlation whatsoever to CIB examples. Sealed copies selling at higher prices raise the ceiling that a CIB copy CAN sell for. Obviously in theory a CIB should sell for no more than a sealed copy of the same title so this sealed price could be considered the ceiling. Most popular CIB games will rise slightly if there is a big upwards swing in the sealed price and they certainly can't increase without it.

[wiggyx]

If you can document the origin they might agree to it. Seems almost anything video game related is fair game these days.

Here is a megaman sketch (not mine) that they just authenticated.

http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u630/sealed99/mm3_zpsac987fdb.jpg

I REALLY want to know exactly how they "authenticated" that peice of work. Who did they talk to? What training does the person or persons have which give them any credibility? How thorough was this so-called authentification? Etc...


Also why would you slab a drawing?! The fuck?! Frame it and put it on your wall for Pete's sake!

This crap makes me wanna find the most oddly snapped and sized gaming item to have them slap in an acrylic case.

[sloan]

Games are not meant to do ANYTHING.

Ask the programmers and developers. I would venture a guess that the publishers sold them to be played.


You should watch the video, it shows that the boxes arent air tight so theres no preservation, they are sneeze guards as he said.


This is where the whole VGA bus falls apart. It really does reek of some amateur doing these in a garage. If it were truly a reputable organization, it would be easy to procure the necessary equipment to vacuum seal these cases shut. Absence of oxygen would eliminate possibility of oxidization and deteroriation.


Their hobby is in no way interfering with your own: see #1.

Umm, where people are slabbing undumped prototype ROM's and rare titles, it does interfere with my hobby.

[Buyatari]

Your example is bad...
Hes paying money for their credibility and opinion. If he doesnt like that theyre also grading those other things, which he sees as a joke, then the joke is on him for giving them his money for them to do the same thing with his stuff.

He is paying for several things including the unbiased 3rd party opinion on condition.

There are other real world applications to this concept. For example there are situations where two parties have trouble coming to terms. In these cases sometimes arbitration is sought out and a 3rd party with no bias helps them sort it out.

When dealing with condition there is no exact criteria. Condition will always be subjective. To say their opinion isn't perfect would be correct but the more business they do the more consistent this will become.

Keep in mind he is also paying for the expert opinion on the factory seal which in this day and age is becoming ever more valuable to both buyer and seller.

[Parodius Duh!]

Quick Question! What college do you go to in order to become the authority on grading video games? oh thats right! NOT A SINGLE GOD DAMN ONE! VGA holds no authority, its some nerdshit in his basement.
See something like the CGC, where paper products are being graded...well, thats needed.....and every authoritative grader at CGC is 100% certified in the judgement of condition of paper products (a Lynch). Its a requirement for the graders. What requirements does VGA have?! NOTHING just a bunch of BS. Keep wasting your money and making the price of vintage games go up. Utter morons.


And for the record not a single grading companies cases are airtight....not CGC, not AFA, not VGA. It will never happen.

[Buyatari]

Ask the programmers and developers. I would venture a guess that the publishers sold them to be played.

ehh most programmers and developers did work with the promise of a paycheck.




This is where the whole VGA bus falls apart. It really does reek of some amateur doing these in a garage. If it were truly a reputable organization, it would be easy to procure the necessary equipment to vacuum seal these cases shut. Absence of oxygen would eliminate possibility of oxidization and deteroriation.

What would this do to a cardboard box with any void inside?

Other hobbies grade items this same way.




Umm, where people are slabbing undumped prototype ROM's and rare titles, it does interfere with my hobby.

No more so than just keeping it in a drawer.

[Parodius Duh!]

My final thought:

"Those who grade videogames through the VGA are digging for gold, VGA has 0 authority for grading games. I could start up the GGA right now (Game Graders Association) and Im sure a ton of you would fall for it.

and thats it. Got a sealed game you want to keep mint? buy a simple UV protective case. Dont grade it unless your a cheapskate."

[Parodius Duh!]

If you can document the origin they might agree to it. Seems almost anything video game related is fair game these days.

Here is a megaman sketch (not mine) that they just authenticated.

http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u630/sealed99/mm3_zpsac987fdb.jpg

CGC would grade the drawing with the proper requirements and legalization in regards to the paper used, age, drawing, and artist. Certified legal. That VGA grade means nothing. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. CGC is certified with the US Government and sanctioned US art association via the smithsonian institute (highest authorized American art & history institute)

[ProjectCamaro]

VGA argument threads are hilarious to me.

1. The stuff they're grading was never going to be opened or played. Period. So putting it in a plastic tomb isn't depriving anyone in the entire world from playing it (except for undumped protos, which is HORRIFYING, but blaming VGA for that is shooting the messenger).

2. Some people want perfect, sealed games in their possession. Get over it. You might have a hobby that a sealed video game collector doesn't relate to. Their hobby is in no way interfering with your own: see #1.

3. People who want sealed games are often willing to pay extra for the peace of mind of knowing that what they're getting is authentic, and that it meets certain criteria. That criteria is, yes, a company's opinion that you may or may not agree with, but for the most part it's "good enough" - if you want a more-or-less flawless copy of a game, you'll know from one photograph on eBay if a VGA'd game meets your personal criteria. For people like that, it's a pretty good service.

4. The VGA isn't, as far as anyone knows, making non-sealed games more expensive. Unless you are a sealed game collector, the VGA is not affecting you at all.

5. Yes, people grade things needlessly: the $15 game example in the video, grading currently-available stuff, etc. is all pretty stupid. But who cares? How does that hurt you? People make dumb decisions, and they pay for it. If you want to get angry about people throwing money away, go protest against legalized gambling or something.

Full disclosure: I don't collect sealed games, but I have employed the VGA to grade high value items that I am selling on commission for, basically, customer service reasons.

Exactly my feelings except I have not used them and don't plan on it.

I guess I just don't understand all the butt hurt going on. If they want to throw a game in a plastic case and grade it based on its condition then who cares? I wish I would have thought of it because I'm sure they are making a killing off it.

[sloan]

Truth be told, that Megaman drawing could have been done by a talented high school student who was a fan of the game and VGA would be none the wiser.

[GarrettCRW]

If you can document the origin they might agree to it. Seems almost anything video game related is fair game these days.

Here is a megaman sketch (not mine) that they just authenticated.

http://i1325.photobucket.com/albums/u630/sealed99/mm3_zpsac987fdb.jpg

Seriously? Talk about penis waving. Buy a picture frame if you're that proud of your art (speaking as someone who owns multiple production cels from He-Man and She-Ra, including one from one of the former show's commercial bumpers).

[JakeM]

He is paying for several things including the unbiased 3rd party opinion on condition.

Well, Im sure more people than us have opinions on these people, and maybe some people will say "oh, I like these guys, sure Ill pay $650 for this game I can get normally for just $200" Whereas others like me will just say they dont want to deal with the item with their sticker on it.

A liars word is worthless, just like their opinion is worthless to a lot of people who do research on them.

There are antique collectors who rely on experts opinion to know what exactly their items are worth, or if theyre real. This company is making even more questions get asked by people, because they wont tell you who they are, what qualifies them over anyone else to charge money to assess condition and box them, and what their methods are in their work.

This type of company is only causing more harm to collecting than good, and not just by boxing things like a Gold Cart NWC in a bad casing or cut the side of boxes so you can see the games and manuals are in them. Theyre quakes.

You only care about money, screw you, games to most collectors are about memories and experiences, not plastic casing and money.

[Bojay1997]

Quick Question! What college do you go to in order to become the authority on grading video games? oh thats right! NOT A SINGLE GOD DAMN ONE! VGA holds no authority, its some nerdshit in his basement.
See something like the CGC, where paper products are being graded...well, thats needed.....and every authoritative grader at CGC is 100% certified in the judgement of condition of paper products (a Lynch). Its a requirement for the graders. What requirements does VGA have?! NOTHING just a bunch of BS. Keep wasting your money and making the price of vintage games go up. Utter morons.


And for the record not a single grading companies cases are airtight....not CGC, not AFA, not VGA. It will never happen.

And yet people spend money to have games graded and pay more for rare games that are of a certain grade. So while it may have no "authority", with a select group of collectors it does have credibility. I'm sorry, but spend a little time on Google and you'll quickly learn that plenty of people have issues with CGC. Ultimately, all of these companies do things the exact same way. They look at a lot of the same items and build a grading scale based on that experience. Companies that can't deliver a consistent result lose their credibility and those that can are rewarded by collectors who want their services.

Only a tiny percentage of all video games out there are VGA graded. Only a small percentage of collectors collect sealed games and even fewer use VGA. It has had zero impact on values of non-sealed games and frankly, most of this frustration is really with the fact that older, good games are continuing to go up in price. Instead of blaming VGA, you need to blame Ebay, the Internet, forums like this one and all of the thousands of collectors who have joined this hobby in the past few years. There's nothing that can be done to stop it, so if you have issues with what older games cost, either find a way to afford it, take a break until the day when prices come down again or leave the hobby completely. There simply aren't any other options.

[Gameguy]

Truth be told, that Megaman drawing could have been done by a talented high school student who was a fan of the game and VGA would be none the wiser.
At least they certified that it's a real drawing, I guess that was worth the money.

[Buyatari]

At least they certified that it's a real drawing, I guess that was worth the money.

The well known long time collector who posted this reported it took more than a year to verify. They certified it was a real drawing done by the artist Capcom hired to create it.

They do contact others outside their own company for unique items. Nothing is perfect but they don't operate in a vacuum.

[Buyatari]

Well, Im sure more people than us have opinions on these people, and maybe some people will say "oh, I like these guys, sure Ill pay $650 for this game I can get normally for just $200" Whereas others like me will just say they dont want to deal with the item with their sticker on it.

A liars word is worthless, just like their opinion is worthless to a lot of people who do research on them.

There are antique collectors who rely on experts opinion to know what exactly their items are worth, or if theyre real. This company is making even more questions get asked by people, because they wont tell you who they are, what qualifies them over anyone else to charge money to assess condition and box them, and what their methods are in their work.

This type of company is only causing more harm to collecting than good, and not just by boxing things like a Gold Cart NWC in a bad casing or cut the side of boxes so you can see the games and manuals are in them. Theyre quakes.

You only care about money, screw you, games to most collectors are about memories and experiences, not plastic casing and money.

Wow with a quick google search you have gone from not understanding a qualifed game or any of the vernacular to the summation of every complaint I've heard since VGA inception. Think for yourself much?

If you are going to form an opinion based on this there isn't much point in responding but I love to waste time so I'd try anyway.

Sure some people don't see the need for VGA. There are collectors of coins and comics and every other hobby with a grading company who refuse to use any such services. Often when these companies are introduced the resistance is the highest and while it does gradually diminish it never fully disappears. Google those hobbies and you will find similar complaints esp when first introduced.

However, with time most collectors have come to accept them as part of the hobby and most high end material gravitates towards this certification. Ask yourself why this is. There are several benefits. Even if the current owner of an item is well known and respected enough to verify the material by slabbing it certification travels with the item from owner to owner for the life of the item.

Who are they to say 85 out of 100? Well in this case it is their scale. It didn't even exist in videogames before they arrived. Before they arrived no established rating system for video games was ever used by the community. The company did grade other items before video games including action figures and the same grading methods used on action figures were the foundation for the grading scale. Then they contacted sealed video game collectors and asked what areas were most important so to tweek the scale for games.

Is it here for good? As posted before me only time will tell. If they remain consistent and learn from any early mistakes then collectors will rely on them more and more. If they are inconsistent they will fall out of favor and graded items will lose any added value they currently have.

[JakeM]

the summation of every complaint I've heard since VGA inception. Think for yourself much?
Dude, people like me who dont like this organization all dont like the same things, its easy to not like them for what they do.


Sure some people don't see the need for VGA. There are collectors of coins and comics and every other hobby with a grading company who refuse to use any such services. Often when these companies are introduced the resistance is the highest and while it does gradually diminish it never fully disappears. Google those hobbies and you will find similar complaints esp when first introduced.
These people will always be quaks, greedy quaks. If they wanted to silence critics, where are they? Do they talk on shows about their processes, or their qualifications? Do they have a youtube channel?


However, with time most collectors have come to accept them as part of the hobby and most high end material gravitates towards this certification.
Most collectors of video games are still going to want to play the games, not just look at the "plastic lifeless boxes" like you call them. Theyre lifeless when theyre in these plastic boxes because you cant use them, they serve no purpose being in them, theyre hundred dollar paperweights.


Is it here for good? As posted before me only time will tell. If they remain consistent and learn from any early mistakes
You know what, theyll still be around a long time I bet, because if the idiots who spent money to have a unqualified person put their games in poorly constructed plastic boxes, and slapped a random number on it, then those people wont ever learn. Bringing their MO from Comics and Toy collecting into video games, where things are different since games are software. This company has already made so many mistakes and people like me jump on them, but their fans who use it to make money only care about the days profit and defend it more and more.

From the way you go back and forth from typing about Pinocchio Syndrome and then posts like this, I think you probably are involved in this company, somehow.

[GarrettCRW]

I'm enjoying how the NA rallying call has been made because one dope decided to poke the nest of DERP over there. Also funny is the ensuing wave of, "Because, capitalism" that has come in with it. The VGA is a great example of people with more money than brains getting roped into something designed to "increase value".

Let me repeat the mantra: VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT AN INVESTMENT.

Sure, some things turn out to be rare, because of the usual reasons [insert story surrounding your rare game here], and hype can inflate demand (theoretically Earthbound, though the price on that has gone FULL RETARD), but that doesn't make them akin to the stock market (which is its own load of BS, but that's neither here nor there), with values rising over time. A sealed copy of Mario 3D Land is only going to be worth $999 if it's something like 2078, if ever, BECAUSE THERE ARE FUCKING TONS OF SEALED COPIES AVAILABLE. And even then, unless that puppy's as airtight as Lindsay Lohan on a Friday night, there are many ways that the game can rot in its coffin. And the protos that have been slabbed are even dumber, since few seem to have the EEPROM windows covered, and the little detail that all cart protos should never be slabbed because THE DATA HAS A LIMITED SHELF LIFE.

*prepares for butthurt*
http://imgur.com/tCp90.gif

[j1e]

I wonder if they'll ever start a service for grading factory sealed CD's? Cassette tapes? Or how about factory sealed VHS tapes or DVD's?

I got an OG Snoop Doggy Dogg - Doggystyle CD from 1993 factory sealed. It should be an 85+. I'ma get that bitch graded :D

[Aatos]

What I don't understand is how some of the more vocal people here (JakeM, I'm looking at you) are confused enough to think their personal stance towards VGA somehow translates into a universal truth or a frickin' moral rule about them, while completely failing to take the point of view of the people who actually happily pay for their services into account.

E.g. I personally, while enjoying the packaging, want to play all my games and not have any "archival copies" that are only paper weights (ie. keep more than 1 copy of each). Thus I wouldn't go near VGA and if I'd ever come across VGA'd title I'd have to sell it, because to me game that can't be played is useless.

BUT, I'm not a) stupid enough to confuse how much I value something with how much general public/other people might value it, and b) stupid enough to think these items would have any other cosmic purpose other than what we give to them. Hell, even life doesn't have any other purpose than what we give to it, why should some piece of plastic?!

Sure, the developers probably like the fact that their game is being played. So what, they ARE being played, there are thousands of copies, plus everything is preserved digitally anyway! PLUS, I'm sure they'd also appreciate the fact that someone loves their product so damn much that they want to keep it 100% intact and sealed. As has been pointed out GAZILLION times, VGA'd games have absolutely no effect to the availability of loose/CIB etc. copies. If someone thinks VGA'd title's price is an indication of how CIB price will develop and pays more because of that, then your beef is with that idiot, not with VGA.

"But what about the really scarce games that have only a handfull of copies left!?" you might say? Any really scarce game that has survived sealed (regardless of if it's VGA'd) to this day is at this point so valuable, it wouldn't be opened and played ANYWAY because the one opening it would be destroying thousands of dollars of value they could otherwise spend on anything else, e.g. buying a non-sealed cheaper copy of the same game. If this FACT bothers you, you need to take it with people who want to offer you thousands for the sealed game and their personal consumer preferences. I personally feel I have no right to tell anyone how they should spend their hard earned money.

EDIT: One last thing I wanted to comment on; the argument saying "VGA is only about money". Wha.. I mean, for VGA dudes, sure, it's their business and apparently damn succesfull one. But for collectors...? The argument is completely senseless. If it were only about money, why on earth would anyone be buying any VGA'd games? To sell them for profit later? Then, if you're sure there are profits to be made, why the heck aren't you buying those games, making profit and quitting your day job?

[bb_hood]

Let me repeat the mantra: VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT AN INVESTMENT.


http://imgur.com/tCp90.gif

Exactly, nor are any other collectibles. It is very foolish if you treat them like an investment.
Its nice to see that classic video games are worth something though, it means alot of people also share my hobby.

[Buyatari]

You know what, theyll still be around a long time I bet, because if the idiots who spent money to have a unqualified person put their games in poorly constructed plastic boxes, and slapped a random number on it, then those people wont ever learn. Bringing their MO from Comics and Toy collecting into video games, where things are different since games are software. This company has already made so many mistakes and people like me jump on them, but their fans who use it to make money only care about the days profit and defend it more and more.

From the way you go back and forth from typing about Pinocchio Syndrome and then posts like this, I think you probably are involved in this company, somehow.

I am able to hear both sides and still think for myself.......of course that means I must be the CEO of VGA!

You are free to not like something for any reason but it helps if you read what both sides are saying and then take some time to understand it before you form an opinion. You don't like sealed games and thus you don't like VGA. You are not alone. There are others who do feel that way but emotional investment in other people's property has always been silly to me.

[jonebone]

Quick Question! What college do you go to in order to become the authority on grading video games? oh thats right! NOT A SINGLE GOD DAMN ONE! VGA holds no authority, its some nerdshit in his basement.


Apparently you are misinformed with your definition of authority. You are confusing authority with power... two closely related concepts but distinctly different. Power is a top-down concept; a manager possesses power over his employees. Authority is a bottom up concept, employees grant managers authority.

VGA does not have any explicit power bestowed to them. However, they do have authority passed to them from the many collectors (and even resellers) who use their products. We don't say they are incapable of committing an error, we simply acknowledge that they are the best in the business.

Another example... assuming you are above 18, living on your own and paying your own bills, your parents have no power over you. Yet most of us bestow our parents with authority and still respect their opinions.

At the end of the day, people shouldn't worry about what others collect....

[Graham Mitchell]

It's just amazing how this topic strikes a nerve in so many people.

[JakeM]

There are others who do feel that way but emotional investment in other people's property has always been silly to me.

Its about the overall retro game market. Look at what happened to sports cards and comic books. Those are better justified because theyre made out of paper and deteriorate easier. Their boxes are crap too, when I first heard about them I thought they were vacuumed sealed, but nope theyre flimsy crap. At least we can break them open easily.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

It's just amazing how this topic strikes a nerve in so many people.

Seriously.

I don't take any personal offense by their existence or their services.

However, if they're out there doing a thing, they're game for criticism and I do see some logic in questioning the claims of the services that they offer.

I certainly don't think VGA is to blame for people having non-rare/common games graded and expecting some kind of massive return just because the games are slabbed/graded. People should not be using this service for any game that's not worth at least two or three times the cost of the grading service. Personally I wouldn't even consider it unless I had a game that was worth over $1000.

Also, I think it's important to note that that they have no other peers or competition in the market. They've stepped up to fill some type of void and if it turns out that they're not doing it well enough, some other company should give them some competition. It's a free market.

This coupled with the fact that they don't seem to have any transparency about their process/public representation out there talking about it beyond what's on the site that makes it easy for skeptics and detractors to soap-box against their practices. If VGA isn't out there defending, potentially offering up sound reasoning for the services that they offer - people are only going to see/hear what the critics have to say.

Like I suggested earlier, they really should visit some trade events like E3 or PAX and talk to the gaming public about what they do. I think that might help their public reputation.

[Bojay1997]

Its about the overall retro game market. Look at what happened to sports cards and comic books. Those are better justified because theyre made out of paper and deteriorate easier. Their boxes are crap too, when I first heard about them I thought they were vacuumed sealed, but nope theyre flimsy crap. At least we can break them open easily.

Nothing happened to ungraded sports cards and comic books. There are still more of both than there ever will be collectors to buy them all. The same goes for video games. On your other point, I've actually cracked a couple VGA cases open myself and I wouldn't call them flimsy. They're the same as any of the plastic casing that comic, coin and paper collectible grading services use.

[Bojay1997]

Seriously.

I don't take any personal offense by their existence or their services.

However, if they're out there doing a thing, they're game for criticism and I do see some logic in questioning the claims of the services that they offer.

I certainly don't think VGA is to blame for people having non-rare/common games graded and expecting some kind of massive return just because the games are slabbed/graded. People should not be using this service for any game that's not worth at least two or three times the cost of the grading service. Personally I wouldn't even consider it unless I had a game that was worth over $1000.

Also, I think it's important to note that that they have no other peers or competition in the market. They've stepped up to fill some type of void and if it turns out that they're not doing it well enough, some other company should give them some competition. It's a free market.

This coupled with the fact that they don't seem to have any transparency about their process/public representation out there talking about it beyond what's on the site that makes it easy for skeptics and detractors to soap-box against their practices. If VGA isn't out there defending, potentially offering up sound reasoning for the services that they offer - people are only going to see/hear what the critics have to say.

Like I suggested earlier, they really should visit some trade events like E3 or PAX and talk to the gaming public about what they do. I think that might help their public reputation.

All of your points are valid ones. Unfortunately, that's never what the vast majority of people who take issue with VGA seem to be concerned about. Instead, they take the position that only they understand what collecting is about and that anyone who collects in a different manner than they do is not a legitimate collector and is harming the hobby. The reality is that the same criticisms about collecting VGA can be made about sealed games and can be made about collecting CIB games. Frankly, if all you really care about is playing games, you can just buy loose cartridges and discs and for those games that require them, instruction manuals. Of course, I've never heard anyone take the position that collecting boxed games leads to higher prices on loose games and less supply, but it's certainly a more logical attack than that sealed games and rarer still VGA graded games are impacting prices or reducing supplies of playable games.

[o.pwuaioc]

All of your points are valid ones. Unfortunately, that's never what the vast majority of people who take issue with VGA seem to be concerned about. Instead, they take the position that only they understand what collecting is about and that anyone who collects in a different manner than they do is not a legitimate collector and is harming the hobby. The reality is that the same criticisms about collecting VGA can be made about sealed games and can be made about collecting CIB games. Frankly, if all you really care about is playing games, you can just buy loose cartridges and discs and for those games that require them, instruction manuals. Of course, I've never heard anyone take the position that collecting boxed games leads to higher prices on loose games and less supply, but it's certainly a more logical attack than that sealed games and rarer still VGA graded games are impacting prices or reducing supplies of playable games.

That's highly exaggerated. So some people don't like sealed collecting. Big whoop! Who cares? It's their right to have that opinion. They have the right to criticize, same as you or anyone else.

And from my experience, the vast majority of people who attack the VGA attack it on account of its lack of transparency and obvious scam-like operation. Most of those just so happen to also not get sealed collecting, as most video game collectors do, and a small minority openly belittle sealed collectors. (Anyone who gets their game VGA graded though deserves the belittlement.)

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

All of your points are valid ones. Unfortunately, that's never what the vast majority of people who take issue with VGA seem to be concerned about. Instead, they take the position that only they understand what collecting is about and that anyone who collects in a different manner than they do is not a legitimate collector and is harming the hobby. The reality is that the same criticisms about collecting VGA can be made about sealed games and can be made about collecting CIB games. Frankly, if all you really care about is playing games, you can just buy loose cartridges and discs and for those games that require them, instruction manuals. Of course, I've never heard anyone take the position that collecting boxed games leads to higher prices on loose games and less supply, but it's certainly a more logical attack than that sealed games and rarer still VGA graded games are impacting prices or reducing supplies of playable games.

Oh yeah, totally.

That stuff I don't even really pay attention to.

I thought Dangerboy brought up some good points in his video. Some I agreed with, some I didn't ... but people over-reacting in this hobby/on the internet isn't going away any time soon.

[Bojay1997]

That's highly exaggerated. So some people don't like sealed collecting. Big whoop! Who cares? It's their right to have that opinion. They have the right to criticize, same as you or anyone else.

And from my experience, the vast majority of people who attack the VGA attack it on account of its lack of transparency and obvious scam-like operation. Most of those just so happen to also not get sealed collecting, as most video game collectors do, and a small minority openly belittle sealed collectors. (Anyone who gets their game VGA graded though deserves the belittlement.)

It's not highly exaggerated at all. Just take a look at this very thread. There is literally one, maybe two people who are actually focused on the issues raised in the video and everyone else against VGA simply because they don't believe there is any reason to ever have a game graded let alone keeping one sealed. I would agree with you that there is a lack of transparency with regard to VGA. That's not the same as being a "scam-like operation".

[Buyatari]

It's not highly exaggerated at all. Just take a look at this very thread. There is literally one, maybe two people who are actually focused on the issues raised in the video and everyone else against VGA simply because they don't believe there is any reason to ever have a game graded let alone keeping one sealed. I would agree with you that there is a lack of transparency with regard to VGA. That's not the same as being a "scam-like operation".

For sure. Some scam where the people who purchase it the most are the happiest with the product and the biggest complaints are from those who not only don't use it but have no use for it.

They are the SNL Conehead family sitting around complaining about the new barber shop that moved into town.

He is right though. They are free to sit around and complain about services they don't use and have no use for if they want. It is at the heart of the matter emotional and most of the arguments makes no sense if they try to explain it but they just don't like it.

[JakeM]

You guys are really going to hate it when theres another company that comes along, is completely transparent, and has actual qualified experts who have backgrounds in preservation of collectibles and video games, and makes all your VGA grades worthless. Theres no point in putting money in their pockets if one day there will be a much better company that does it.

These people are affecting game prices online, because its an artificial reason to increase the prices of things. I have a problem with that, and I cant believe you guys dont. Once theres a better company youll see what fools youve been.

[Bojay1997]

You guys are really going to hate it when theres another company that comes along, is completely transparent, and has actual qualified experts who have backgrounds in preservation of collectibles and video games, and makes all your VGA grades worthless. Theres no point in putting money in their pockets if one day there will be a much better company that does it.

These people are affecting game prices online, because its an artificial reason to increase the prices of things. I have a problem with that, and I cant believe you guys dont. Once theres a better company youll see what fools youve been.

You're incorrect. There are multiple grading services in many hobbies and that results in better prices and higher quality services for the consumer who uses them. It also hasn't caused the graded items from the first service to be disregarded by the collecting community as long as their methods were consistent and careful which as far as I can tell is the case with VGA thus far.

The only thing that has increased is the price of VGA games as more collectors have gone that route increasing demand for the highest grades of certain games. For the rest of us who couldn't care less about grading or VGA, it has had zero impact.

[jonebone]

You guys are really going to hate it when theres another company that comes along, is completely transparent, and has actual qualified experts who have backgrounds in preservation of collectibles and video games, and makes all your VGA grades worthless. Theres no point in putting money in their pockets if one day there will be a much better company that does it.

These people are affecting game prices online, because its an artificial reason to increase the prices of things. I have a problem with that, and I cant believe you guys dont. Once theres a better company youll see what fools youve been.

I actually would love for another REPUTABLE company to enter the market, turnaround time and costs would come down due to competition. Sealed collectors are collecting the games, not the VGA cases. The VGA cases are merely a way of protecting your games, verifying that they are authentic, and assigning an independent "expert" grade to it.

I don't need VGA to tell me how Mint my games are, I'm well aware of it. But it does level the playing field. If I'm trading with another collector, his Mint may not match my Mint. And when you get into sealed games, a million pictures are no substitute for holding a game in hand. There are subtle things like scuffing and concavity that you won't notice until the game is in hand.

So VGA creates that independent scale. If I'm trading an 85 game, the person knows exactly what they are getting. If I'm buying an 85, I know exactly what I'm getting.

My problems with VGA are the turnaround times and the play in the grades sometime (overgraded or undergraded games). But as I've mentioned, they are the best solution currently and I support them. If a better solution comes along I will gladly support them, but to imply that VGA games would be worthless is pure ignorance. Many hobbies support multiple grading authorities such as PSA and BGS in baseball cards....

[JakeM]

Ok, its your money and your games, but theyre going to end up like other quack experts in other fields of collecting or preservation authenticating, their seals and documents will be ignored by more serious stores and collectors once someone else comes along whos way better.

[kupomogli]

A well stated video but even IF VGA's grading services add no legitimate value or protection to a service, I don't think that the term "pyramid scheme" is accurate.

Yes, they're advertising a potential increased return on your game investment through giving it the VGA service, but VGA are not enlisting buyers of their services to go out and recruit others to have their games VGA graded for some type of tiered or incentivized pay-out.

So, clearly some questionable practices examined, but I don't think it's a "pyramid scheme" proper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

Personally, I don't have any vested interest in VGA or VGA related activities since I'm not a sealed game collector and I don't ever have any valuable sealed games to sell.

Also, I wish the VGA would be more public/transparent about themselves and the services that they offer. Not sure if that would make anything better ... but being clandestine about stuff like this and professing to be an "authority" while simultaneously not participating in industry events or public things ... you're going to rustle up your critics pretty quickly.

I've said it's a pyramid scheme prior to this thread. Here's the reason why I consider it one. You've got one person or group that does this grading and then there are people who have graded their games that promote it. Whether it's showing off their graded collection, trying to sell this garbage on Ebay, etc. While most people dislike grading and see there's no value to it, there are other people who will buy into it. The person or people at the top of VGA, the ones who grade these games are profitting from it while everyone else who thinks this actually adds value to their games are just being suckered into spending more and more money by getting their games graded.

While the people who are spreading the news of VGA and grading aren't making anything from it. They're still spreading the idea around, which makes it a pyramid scheme.

[Buyatari]

Once theres a better company youll see what fools youve been.

I'd love to see a better company. Why wouldn't the people who use the service want a better product?

[Bojay1997]

I've said it's a pyramid scheme prior to this thread. Here's the reason why I consider it one. You've got one person or group that does this grading and then there are people who have graded their games that promote it. Whether it's showing off their graded collection, trying to sell this garbage on Ebay, etc. While most people dislike grading and see there's no value to it, there are other people who will buy into it. The person or people at the top of VGA, the ones who grade these games are profitting from it while everyone else who thinks this actually adds value to their games are just being suckered into spending more and more money by getting their games graded.

While the people who are spreading the news of VGA and grading aren't making anything from it. They're still spreading the idea around, which makes it a pyramid scheme.

What you are describing is not a pyramid scheme. You are simply describing a service that the users of the service like and therefore promote with positive word of mouth and by continuing to use it. If that is what a pyramid scheme is, every small business in America is a "pyramid scheme".

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I've said it's a pyramid scheme prior to this thread. Here's the reason why I consider it one. You've got one person or group that does this grading and then there are people who have graded their games that promote it. Whether it's showing off their graded collection, trying to sell this garbage on Ebay, etc. While most people dislike grading and see there's no value to it, there are other people who will buy into it. The person or people at the top of VGA, the ones who grade these games are profitting from it while everyone else who thinks this actually adds value to their games are just being suckered into spending more and more money by getting their games graded.

While the people who are spreading the news of VGA and grading aren't making anything from it. They're still spreading the idea around, which makes it a pyramid scheme.

What you're describing is not a "pyramid scheme".

Here's an example that would fit the bill - If VGA was franchising out "grading licenses" to individuals that gave them the right to grade and slab games, those licenses carried high fees, and those licensed graders were also permitted (or more likely REQUIRED) to recruit more "licensed graders", with the promise of getting a small small percentage of the license fee for each recruit (which is set up to be an intentionally small percentage that is never really enough to cover the grader's own initial/annual license fee) and all the main money for the fees went to the top but nobody below the top level truly profited - THAT would be a pyramid scheme.

If you want to learn more about "pyramid schemes" just read the wiki that I had previously linked to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

[JakeM]

I'd love to see a better company. Why wouldn't the people who use the service want a better product?

Im just saying, once a better company is around then theyll regret wasting money on the VGA.

[Bojay1997]

Im just saying, once a better company is around then theyll regret wasting money on the VGA.

Your logic is badly flawed. "Better" companies start up every day in every possible business. It doesn't mean the old companies instantly shut down or that their products or services become useless or less valuable. Competition is positive and welcomed as it generally benefits consumers and it can even benefit the existing business as it gives them something to work harder to beat.

[Panzerfuzion]

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/cantwealljustgetalong.jpg

Retro Gamers of Peace!

[RPG_Fanatic]

I'd love to see a better company. Why wouldn't the people who use the service want a better product?

PSA was the big sports card grader then BGS came in and now BGS cards are worth more then PSA cards.

[GarrettCRW]

PSA was the big sports card grader then BGS came in and now BGS cards are worth more then PSA cards.

Yes, because as stupid as the VGA is, imagine what will happen when VAG shows up, and your VAG graded game is worth more than your VGA graded game!

[wiggyx]

I actually would love for another REPUTABLE company to enter the market, turnaround time and costs would come down due to competition. Sealed collectors are collecting the games, not the VGA cases. The VGA cases are merely a way of protecting your games, verifying that they are authentic, and assigning an independent "expert" grade to it.

I don't need VGA to tell me how Mint my games are, I'm well aware of it. But it does level the playing field. If I'm trading with another collector, his Mint may not match my Mint. And when you get into sealed games, a million pictures are no substitute for holding a game in hand. There are subtle things like scuffing and concavity that you won't notice until the game is in hand.

So VGA creates that independent scale. If I'm trading an 85 game, the person knows exactly what they are getting. If I'm buying an 85, I know exactly what I'm getting.

My problems with VGA are the turnaround times and the play in the grades sometime (overgraded or undergraded games). But as I've mentioned, they are the best solution currently and I support them. If a better solution comes along I will gladly support them, but to imply that VGA games would be worthless is pure ignorance. Many hobbies support multiple grading authorities such as PSA and BGS in baseball cards....

So which one is it? Consistent or inconsistent grading? I've heard the latter is the case all too often :/

[Buyatari]

Im just saying, once a better company is around then theyll regret wasting money on the VGA.

It isn't that expensive and I've recouped enough on the graded games I've already sold to pay for all the grading I've ever done. On average it only costs $30 to have a game graded and shipped back by sending in bulk and going with the slowest shipping.

If another company arrived and I could increase the value of a game worth say $1000 up to $1200 or $1500 or more I'd be happy to pay the $30 all over again. Sell one or two of those games to pay the costs of grading on the rest of them.

[JakeM]

Youre just about collecting for selling purposes, shut up about me having an opinion on this. You have no respect for game collecting, nor the games themselves and youve shown that in your own words in this thread. I dont know why anyone who cares about their collections would buy stuff from you on this forum after seeing your comments on them.

Im not going to reply to anymore. Ive said enough on this matter. Greedy people are to blame for this specific organization existing and continuing, and thats a shame.

[theclaw]

Youre just about collecting for selling purposes, shut up about me having an opinion on this. You have no respect for game collecting, nor the games themselves and youve shown that in your own words in this thread. I dont know why anyone who cares about their collections would buy stuff from you on this forum after seeing your comments on them.

Im not going to reply to anymore. Ive said enough on this matter. Greedy people are to blame for this specific organization existing and continuing, and thats a shame.

Having an opinion and being free to speak it, doesn't necessarily mean anyone will listen or care.

Besides you don't need to be greedy to want a neutral party to vouch for authenticity of rare enough items.

[Aussie2B]

Interesting video. The irony is that I'd put more faith in Dangerboy assessing and slabbing PlayStation games than I would in the VGA. That's the number one problem with them. All the other sketchy details aside, I don't know who the hell they are or why I should put any faith in them. Why should I assume that they're any more qualified to assess and preserve games than myself? The company just appeared out of nowhere and called itself an "authority", and I'm supposed to just trust them and hand over my money? Sorry, ain't gonna happen. I'd sooner turn to various people in the game collecting communities who have shared their histories and knowledge and I believe truly know their stuff. Those people have proven to me that they deserve to be called an "authority" in their fields; VGA has done nothing of the sort.

Granted, I'm no dope about money. If I suddenly had a valuable, sealed game in my hands ready to sell and suspected that a VGA grading would boost my profit even more, even with the investment, I'd go ahead and do it, but I'd never waste my money on the word of this baloney service by buying slabbed games for myself (unless it's the same price as a non-graded copy, and I'd crack that baby open in an instant).

[bigbacon]

Youre just about collecting for selling purposes, shut up about me having an opinion on this. You have no respect for game collecting, nor the games themselves and youve shown that in your own words in this thread. I dont know why anyone who cares about their collections would buy stuff from you on this forum after seeing your comments on them.

Im not going to reply to anymore. Ive said enough on this matter. Greedy people are to blame for this specific organization existing and continuing, and thats a shame.

people collect stuff for a whole lot of reason. Sorry some peoples reason don't follow yours. Collecting is collecting. If I knew this stuff would be big bucks today, i would have started collecting 10 years ago and making a mint now.

[badinsults]

As soon as grading games becomes profitable enough, I can almost guarantee someone will track down a machine that was used to seal the games in the first place, and reseal them. These machines still exist, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone is already making forgeries. How does VGA tell the difference between a game sealed 20 years ago and a reseal if they were done on the same machine?

[Buyatari]

Youre just about collecting for selling purposes, shut up about me having an opinion on this. You have no respect for game collecting, nor the games themselves and youve shown that in your own words in this thread. I dont know why anyone who cares about their collections would buy stuff from you on this forum after seeing your comments on them.

Im not going to reply to anymore. Ive said enough on this matter. Greedy people are to blame for this specific organization existing and continuing, and thats a shame.

When it comes to $1000+ sealed games it is all about collecting and selling.

I mostly play the $20 games.

Why doesn't it have to be one or the other with you?

[Buyatari]

As soon as grading games becomes profitable enough, I can almost guarantee someone will track down a machine that was used to seal the games in the first place, and reseal them. These machines still exist, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone is already making forgeries. How does VGA tell the difference between a game sealed 20 years ago and a reseal if they were done on the same machine?

Not that easy really. By looking at the flap they can tell if the box was opened. The paint cracks along the edge when you open it. Under magnification any wear on the box but not present on the plastic above is also a dead giveaway. They are grading the item so they look for all the dents and nicks etc and if these don't match up with the plastic above it then its a red flag.

PS1 games I'm not sure as I don't know those as well. There may be a problem down the road but when it comes to spending real money I'll stick with the cardboard boxes.

[sloan]

Having an opinion and being free to speak it, doesn't necessarily mean anyone will listen or care.

Besides you don't need to be greedy to want a neutral party to vouch for authenticity of rare enough items.

Nothing 'neutral' about VGA. In fact, they have a deeply vested interest in driving game prices upward, and at whatever cost.


Not that easy really. By looking at the flap they can tell if the box was opened. The paint cracks along the edge when you open it. Under magnification any wear on the box but not present on the plastic above is also a dead giveaway. They are grading the item so they look for all the dents and nicks etc and if these don't match up with the plastic above it then its a red flag.

PS1 games I'm not sure as I don't know those as well. There may be a problem down the road but when it comes to spending real money I'll stick with the cardboard boxes.

Wut r u smokin? I have seen nothing to verify that this VGA organization has all-knowing magical powers when it comes to inspecting and 'authenticating' anything. Just look at the bent book cover in the OP video for evidence of that.

[Buyatari]

Nothing 'neutral' about VGA. In fact, they have a deeply vested interest in driving game prices upward, and at whatever cost.

They are a neutral party in a sale between a buyer and a seller. They are a neutral party in determining a grade and the authenticity of the factory seal. In theory they could throw out a bunch of high scores which would result in higher scores but long term survival depends on a fair scoring system. It is actually in their best interest to be overly critical with the grading scores. In the coin world PCGS is considered by many to have the strictest scoring system among all he grading companies and thus their coins receive the highest prices.




Wut r u smokin? I have seen nothing to verify that this VGA organization has all-knowing magical powers when it comes to inspecting and 'authenticating' anything. Just look at the bent book cover in the OP video for evidence of that.

The damaged book happened in shipping. In truth it was a poor case design for an unusual item that shouldn't ever have been sent in for grading in the first place. What does that have to do with their ability to look at a standard sized cardboard box game and determine if the seal is authentic? Almost universally the top sealed NES, SNES and N64 collectors use them without any worry.

[wiggyx]

Why shouldn't it have been sent in for grading exactly?

[o.pwuaioc]

.....

[GarrettCRW]

Not that easy really. By looking at the flap they can tell if the box was opened. The paint cracks along the edge when you open it. Under magnification any wear on the box but not present on the plastic above is also a dead giveaway. They are grading the item so they look for all the dents and nicks etc and if these don't match up with the plastic above it then its a red flag.

PS1 games I'm not sure as I don't know those as well. There may be a problem down the road but when it comes to spending real money I'll stick with the cardboard boxes.

I don't know what's the bigger crock here: that you and your buddies at NA can detect when a box has been opened, or that you won't go chasing after the money when the NES and Super NES markets crash and burn. (PROTIP: They will. Just ask the pre-crash era collectors.)

[portnoyd]

Not that easy really. By looking at the flap they can tell if the box was opened. The paint cracks along the edge when you open it. Under magnification any wear on the box but not present on the plastic above is also a dead giveaway. They are grading the item so they look for all the dents and nicks etc and if these don't match up with the plastic above it then its a red flag.

It's very easy.

The exact shrink/sealing equipment that Nintendo used is available for purchase on eBay. Hell, I linked to them all on r/gc and someone asked me to remove the links, lol.

Printing boxes in the same point, type and color depth has already been done.

Considering how much you can make, the investment in both brand new boxes and the shrinking and sealing equipment is a steal compared to the potential profit. The only thing you'd have to do is match weight and weight distribution, which is easy.

And when you replicate exactly what VGA authenticates as real, they won't be able to tell the difference.

[theclaw]

It's very easy.

The exact shrink/sealing equipment that Nintendo used is available for purchase on eBay. Hell, I linked to them all on r/gc and someone asked me to remove the links, lol.

Printing boxes in the same point, type and color depth has already been done.

Considering how much you can make, the investment in both brand new boxes and the shrinking and sealing equipment is a steal compared to the potential profit. The only thing you'd have to do is match weight and weight distribution, which is easy.

And when you replicate exactly what VGA authenticates as real, they won't be able to tell the difference.

Yeah I think this kind of logical approach is more productive than conspiracy theories tossed at VGA.

[GarrettCRW]

I wouldn't say that accusing the VGA of profiteering off a speculator-driven market qualifies as a conspiracy theory. Relegating the claim as such allows the skeezy VGA types (who have not officially replied to Dangerboy's video; he's only had to deal with mouth-breathing supporters of the company) to hide behind their legal-yet-ethically-bankrupt business practices.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

Not that easy really. By looking at the flap they can tell if the box was opened. The paint cracks along the edge when you open it. Under magnification any wear on the box but not present on the plastic above is also a dead giveaway. They are grading the item so they look for all the dents and nicks etc and if these don't match up with the plastic above it then its a red flag.

PS1 games I'm not sure as I don't know those as well. There may be a problem down the road but when it comes to spending real money I'll stick with the cardboard boxes.

This brings the discussion to one of my pet peeves. Let's call it what it is: video game box/case/whatever grading, (at least with respect to sealed items). I remember there being another outfit out there that published its "points off" list of criteria. What I thought was funny was that for a disk based game, they took off more for a tiny problem with the wrap than they did if the disk was loose rattling around in the case. Who knows what condition the games are really in? What if a battery for saving the game leaked all over the inside of the cart and ruined it? The game could still be graded at a high level unless or until the battery acid actually damaged the box.

[Griking]

I can't blame the service. If someone's willing to pay for the service then it's only good business for someone to offer the service.

For the most part I also can't blame the sellers who send their games off to be graded. If it increases their sale prices (which I know is debatable and varies from item to item) then more power to them as well. Though these seem to be a handful of not so savvy businessmen out there getting worthless items graded. But hey, its their money.

Now the people who purchase these graded games on Ebay for 2x-3x their normal value? Yep, those are the people I blame.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[theclaw]

I wouldn't say that accusing the VGA of profiteering off a speculator-driven market qualifies as a conspiracy theory. Relegating the claim as such allows the skeezy VGA types (who have not officially replied to Dangerboy's video; he's only had to deal with mouth-breathing supporters of the company) to hide behind their legal-yet-ethically-bankrupt business practices.

Yes but they're two different things whose level of overlap matters.

Business practices of VGA, vs business practices of VGA's clients.

[Buyatari]

It's very easy.

The exact shrink/sealing equipment that Nintendo used is available for purchase on eBay. Hell, I linked to them all on r/gc and someone asked me to remove the links, lol.

Printing boxes in the same point, type and color depth has already been done.

Considering how much you can make, the investment in both brand new boxes and the shrinking and sealing equipment is a steal compared to the potential profit. The only thing you'd have to do is match weight and weight distribution, which is easy.

And when you replicate exactly what VGA authenticates as real, they won't be able to tell the difference.

Prove it. Start printing up black box games and send them off to VGA.

[portnoyd]

Prove it. Start printing up black box games and send them off to VGA.

And who's to say myself and a number of like minded individuals haven't already pooled our resources to buy this equipment, haven't already used the printing abilities of a company who one of those likeminded individuals work for, to print new boxes, haven't both dispersed some unslabbed to the sealed collecting community as well as already sent and received back some that have been 'authenticated' by VGA and haven't dispersed them to the slab collecting community?

Like I said, it's very easy.

[sloan]

VGA is nothing more than a house of cards destined for an abrupt fall.

As has been mentioned, the original NES shrink-sealing equipment is readily available, and if the US secret service deals with photo-realistic copies of US currency on a regular basis, then, yes the two lone employees at VGA can be fooled by modern printing techniques. What would stop someone from inserting a carefully weighted slab of wood inside a resealed printed box and passing it off to VGA as the real McCoy? The ebay bidders would be none the wiser because they are never going to open their investments. In all actuality, the current population of any game could be artificially increased by unscrupulous types. It really is a system set up for dishonesty.

[Bojay1997]

VGA is nothing more than a house of cards destined for an abrupt fall.

As has been mentioned, the original NES shrink-sealing equipment is readily available, and if the US secret service deals with photo-realistic copies of US currency on a regular basis, then, yes the two lone employees at VGA can be fooled by modern printing techniques. What would stop someone from inserting a carefully weighted slab of wood inside a resealed printed box and passing it off to VGA as the real McCoy? The ebay bidders would be none the wiser because they are never going to open their investments. In all actuality, the current population of any game could be artificially increased by unscrupulous types. It really is a system set up for dishonesty.

This might literally be the dumbest anti-VGA argument I have ever read. You could make this same exact claim about any collectible item on the planet. What's to stop people from mass producing non-sealed but valuable games? What's to stop people from reproducing rare baseball cards or rare comics? The reality is that it's not cheap to pull together the necessary materials to duplicate any pop culture item, let alone the expertise to do so without getting caught. Could people reproduce old and valuable video games? Sure. Will the few people with the expertise and money to do so waste their time and risk prison time and civil litigation to do so? Very, very unlikely.

[GarrettCRW]

A great deal of the baseball card crash had to do with forged cards, altered cards (Keith Olbermann, who knows more about baseball and baseball cards than most people, has outright accused ex-LA Kings owner Bruce McNall of cutting the edges of the Honus Wagner card he used to own in order to increase its worth), and forged signatures. For anyone to say that people with the knowhow won't do it is naive.

But, hey, VGA supporters known about being naive and gullible, right?