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View Full Version : Microsoft Just Posted New Xbox One Details Re Privacy, Used and Always Connected



Bojay1997
06-06-2013, 06:14 PM
Microsoft just went live with an information site that explains how privacy, game resale and sharing will work. Apparently, you do need an Internet connection at least once every 24 hours, all games you install will be accessible to you anywhere as well as to your family members and Microsoft won't be charging transfer or used fees, although publishers are free to do so. They may also allow you to give games to a friend if the publisher allows it, but that feature won't be available at launch. While it seems slightly less draconian than the earlier rumors, I have no interest in the Xbox One at this point.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/connected

The 1 2 P
06-06-2013, 06:26 PM
I think this is the first time you have ever posted a thread or atleast that I've noticed. Anyway, thanks for the heads up on the info. Hopefully now we will stop getting atleast one new XB1 rumor thread a day.....atleast until Saturday.

Guyra
06-06-2013, 06:55 PM
With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies.

Microsoft had the chance to sugar coat this part a bit, and this is the best they could do ..?

So yeah, say goodbye to offline gaming, guys!

Bojay1997
06-06-2013, 06:58 PM
Microsoft had the chance to sugar coat this part a bit, and this is the best they could do ..?

Well, at least they finally came clean about everything. I can't say the same for Sony.

Guyra
06-06-2013, 06:59 PM
Well, they had to at some point. Still wondering what Sony's up to, for sure, but we'll find out very soon.

In any case, it doesn't make their product any better. ;)

kupomogli
06-06-2013, 07:06 PM
Well, at least they finally came clean about everything. I can't say the same for Sony.

Yeah they did. The information just wasn't posted by the sources until recently. Even though you do own all consoles, you sure like to bash on Sony whenever you can.

Bojay1997
06-06-2013, 07:22 PM
Yeah they did. The information just wasn't posted by the sources until recently. Even though you do own all consoles, you sure like to bash on Sony whenever you can.

No, actually they didn't and the fact that you keep repeating that is an indication that you lack the ability to discern the difference between fact-based information and wishful thinking and speculation. Sony has never said, "you will never need to connect the PS4 to the Internet if you don't want to". Similarly, Sony has never said that it won't lock first party games to a particular account or user. In fact, Sony has specifically declined to respond to the media asking those very questions as recently as last week. All Sony has really said is that the PS4 will play used games (notably, the Xbox One plays used games too) and that in places without robust Internet or for users who don't want to interact with others the system won't have to be always connected (technically true of the Xbox One as well, considering it only needs to be connected once every 24 hours, not "always"). That's not a complete answer to the questions posed.

Frankly, you could say that I am a loyal Sony user with all of my TVs, Blu Ray players, DVD players and even receivers coming from Sony almost exclusively for the past 25+ years. I also want to be a PS4 user if it turns out it is basically the identical set-up to the PS3 where Internet is 100% optional and games can be freely traded, resold, rented, etc... Heck, the PS4 on paper is even apparently a more capable and advanced piece of hardware than the Xbox One. I would love for the PS4 to not only be the best piece of hardware, but also have the most consumer friendly policies. We already know that Sony will allow third party publishers to lock out used games, so I'm looking for confirmation that Sony first party stuff won't be locked out or require an online pass and that I never have to connect to the Internet with the PS4 if I don't want to.

Microsoft has revealed their cards fully now and I'm not interested in the Xbox One. I'd like to see Sony do the same so I can decide if the PS4 meets my criteria for purchase.

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-06-2013, 07:56 PM
GUUUUUHHHHHHH...

E3 is days away.

I sure has hell hope coming out of that event we have concrete details on all DRM and used game buying/selling mechanics/limitations for BOTH systems.

Because as much as many of us really enjoy these back-and-forths, they just make my head hurt.

Greg2600
06-06-2013, 08:19 PM
Doesn't sound quite as heinous to me.

As for wanting it or not, I saw a trailer for Wolfenstein New Order and the graphics are frigging incredible.

WCP
06-06-2013, 08:27 PM
Wow, can't believe they stuck to the 24 hour rule. This means that you basically can't take a Xbox One system on vacation with you to anyplace that can't connect to a network. This will affect me about 3 weeks of the year, and depending if hotel internet is fast enough, or cheap enough, it could affect me on some other days as well.


Pretty shitty if you ask me.


Talk on recent podcasts I've been listening to have been suggesting that MS would back off the 24 hour thing, and maybe make it a one week thing or something like that. 24 hours is pretty harsh. This basically means that for all intents and purposes, an internet connection is required at all times if you really want the thing to function. I mean, I guess if you were on vacation, you could take it to a Kinkos, or something, to get internet access real quick, and then go back offline when you get back to your cabin you could play for another 10 hours or so.


what a strange world we are going to be living in.

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-06-2013, 08:42 PM
I'm no huge fan of online check-ins with Microsoft, not so much because my XBOX ONE will ever be in a network-free environment, but because I believe that at SOME point Microsoft's servers are going to encounter some kind of inexplicable communication issues that will wind up denying service to X amount of users at some given time.

I just don't trust any service to be completely stable and 100% functional 100% of the time. Things happen, services go down. XBL has gone down or undergone maintenance many times in the history of the service, but that in and of itself has not stopped us from playing/enjoying games that we've purchased.

This system might.

I guess we'll see how it goes. Maybe it'll be relatively painless and we'll all forget about it a week into the XBOX ONE launch.

ProjectCamaro
06-06-2013, 08:46 PM
Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

If I'm reading this correctly this means a complete end to buying used games via Craigslist and the like. The person you get the game from MUST be a friend for at least 30 days and you can only do a private party sale once in its lifetime.

With that and the 24 hour online nanny check I am officially out. Goodbye Microsoft, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

WCP
06-06-2013, 08:52 PM
I hope their system goes down. I hope it goes down for a long time, and stays down. Even though I'm still likely to buy this piece of ish, and it would affect me personally, I think in the long run, it would be beneficial to gaming overall, because the backlash would be so significant that basically for one more generation we would enjoy the rights that we've been enjoying since the days of the Atari 2600.


I can imagine that the hackers of the world are licking their chops, and can't wait to bring this system down as soon as it goes online. They should wait till Xmas eve to strike, lol. Imagine all the peoples on Xmas day not being able to use their Xbox because the network is down.


My kids will be pissed, but I'm going to be smiling if it happens.



Project Camaro - Where did you find that quote about the friends list and 30 days thing ?

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-06-2013, 09:07 PM
I can imagine that the hackers of the world are licking their chops, and can't wait to bring this system down as soon as it goes online.

They've taken other networks down for far less offensive consumer practices.

Gameguy
06-06-2013, 09:33 PM
If I'm reading this correctly this means a complete end to buying used games via Craigslist and the like. The person you get the game from MUST be a friend for at least 30 days and you can only do a private party sale once in its lifetime.

With that and the 24 hour online nanny check I am officially out. Goodbye Microsoft, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
It's possible that someone will eventually make new unlicensed firmware for it so you won't have to worry about online check ins or worry about used games not working, just give it some time. If you can play PS2 games from a hard drive or play burned Wii games, it shouldn't be too difficult to get around this in a few years.

Ed Oscuro
06-06-2013, 09:45 PM
Well, at least they finally came clean about everything. I can't say the same for Sony.
Getting a comment in before Bojay1997 blathers on about rumors and...oh, I see.


Sony has made it official that it won't be implementing any sort of DRM in the PlayStation 4 to stop the use of used-games The confirmation comes in the form of Sony retroactively having answered the question of used-game DRM. Kotaku had decided to contact Sony directly about the question, and the Sony representative pointed Kotaku towards a statement made by Sony studio chief Shuhei Yoshida back in February.

According to Yoshida, "At a roundtable this morning, Sony's game studios chief, Shuhei Yoshida, told reporters that any requirement for users to register a game online in order to play it would be left to game publishers. Sony won't require that."
http://tech2.in.com/news/console/sony-officially-states-that-playstation-4-will-not-have-drm-against-used-games/875088

Kind of funny, I was almost expecting the Xbox One DRM confirmation not to be widely reported yet, but I see the spin game is well underway. Well, time to nip that in the bud.

But I'd love to hear more about how leaks are crap and for more tortured hair-splitting over "well technically they didn't answer questions #1 and #3 blah blah blah" hmm yes very interesting

ProjectCamaro
06-06-2013, 10:27 PM
Project Camaro - Where did you find that quote about the friends list and 30 days thing ?

Here - http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

Mr Mort
06-06-2013, 10:32 PM
The 24-hour rule is just inane. It's a lame PR copout in order for them to give us a false impression that the system does not require an internet connection to play single-player games.
Either make the damn thing require a persistent internet connection, or don't at all. This half-assery is just a play on words, and as far as I'm concerned, the system *does* require an internet connection. Just come out and say it, stop beating around the bush.

I'll be the first to admit, my PS3 and 360 are always connected to the internet. So why would I be upset about this 24-hour rule?
Because I don't like being told how, when, and where I can consume the media that I have paid for. It's a matter of principle, and it gives too much leverage to a corporation, and as unlikely as it really is, it's not outside the realm of possibility that this power/leverage can be abused.

Ed Oscuro
06-06-2013, 10:43 PM
The 24-hour rule is just inane. It's a lame PR copout in order for them to give us a false impression that the system does not require an internet connection to play single-player games.
Either make the damn thing require a persistent internet connection, or don't at all.
In their defense, actually requiring a persistent connection would be unworkable. A day is the only timeframe that's remotely sane for constant check-ins. Obviously you can't have the system lock up if it is disconnected for a few moments.

However I suppose depending on how they implement this there could still be problems. Will it start counting down a timer when it's first disconnected from the 'net? Or will it try to connect repeatedly after a particular time is reached, or during a count-down timer? It could be bad in various ways.

Mr Mort
06-06-2013, 10:51 PM
In their defense, actually requiring a persistent connection would be unworkable. A day is the only timeframe that's remotely sane for constant check-ins. Obviously you can't have the system lock up if it is disconnected for a few moments.

I get what you're saying, and you're right. Short interruptions to net access are fairly common. For all intents and purposes tho, you're being required to have a connection to play games. It is that very principle that does not sit well with me, and phrasing it as anything but such is just a play on words IMHO.

Gamereviewgod
06-06-2013, 11:01 PM
"Share access to your games with everyone inside your home"

"Give your games to friends"

"Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies. "

I love how these are now marketable lines despite being able to do all of these things previously, and without restrictions. Absolutely nothing here benefits consumers in any way
I've seen all of the lines already. "I always have it connected anyway!" So, what happens when Microsoft's side goes down because of disgruntled hackers? "I don't trade games anyway!" But how does the restriction benefit you as a consumer?

Microsoft has killed physical preservation, created more waste than is necessary, locked out countless independent game stores, began controlling how/where/when people play, and under the preposterous idea this is somehow beneficial to the end user. It's insulting.

granz
06-06-2013, 11:30 PM
I'm sure MS is shielding itself from anti-trust laws through some specious claim that piracy is destroying the video game industry, and I'm sure there's no end to the projected losses they can pull out of their ass to "prove" it.

The only reason MS is restricting software resale is so they can increase their own profit margins through the exclusive sale of new titles; and the console's online validation is a blatant act of planned obsolescence. MS will probably shut down Xbox One validation servers once the next-next generation Xbox console is released, thereby forcing consumers to make the investment.

The entire thing will blow up in their faces. Hopefully it will be a lesson to the next would-be monopoly that tries to corner the market with these kinds of tactics. Then again, MS may be setting an unfortunate precedent for the future of gaming...

PreZZ
06-07-2013, 12:15 AM
Microsoft (and probably Sony too) deserves to be hacked (read FUCKED HARD) by Anonymous, just to show them that their system doesnt work and its full of shit. Just imagine the lawsuits they would have not being able to access your game for a month or anonymous deleting your online codes for games you bought, etc. It happened on PSN, might happen again... If Sony does the same, these 2 consoles will be the first time I dont buy a system at launch in the past 20 years. I will only buy them once they get hacked, and play backups. And I wish all gamers are smart enough not to buy these systems and bring sony and ms to their knees until they quit all DRM bullshit. Wii U will be the only new system I own for a while.

JakeM
06-07-2013, 12:46 AM
Yeah, people are gonna hack the network on spy on people as they play games, its only a matter of time.

WCP
06-07-2013, 01:14 AM
I love how these are now marketable lines despite being able to do all of these things previously, and without restrictions. Absolutely nothing here benefits consumers in any way
I've seen all of the lines already. "I always have it connected anyway!" So, what happens when Microsoft's side goes down because of disgruntled hackers? "I don't trade games anyway!" But how does the restriction benefit you as a consumer?

Microsoft has killed physical preservation, created more waste than is necessary, locked out countless independent game stores, began controlling how/where/when people play, and under the preposterous idea this is somehow beneficial to the end user. It's insulting.


well said... well said.

Niku-Sama
06-07-2013, 01:32 AM
it seems more and more aparent to me that xbox one is going to be a big waste of time.

they seem they have enough cout to justify this online once a day crap and in all honesty i think its going to blow up in their face like windows 8, and like windows 8.1 update will

The 1 2 P
06-07-2013, 02:04 AM
I'll be the first to admit, my PS3 and 360 are always connected to the internet. So why would I be upset about this 24-hour rule?

Same here, my 360 and PS3 are always connected to my wireless network. But despite how fast my internet is, there are still days where the power goes out for no reason. I'm talking 72 degrees clear sky days with no rain, snow or wind. I hate when that happens but the point is that it does happen every now and then. The power can be out anywhere from an hour to an entire day. So the 24 hour rule isn't a complete deal breaker but it's annoying as hell, especially when applied to single player games.

While it's nice that they mentioned parts of their used game process, they still have alot of questions to answer. I'm going to assume that you won't be able to rent any XB1 games. But for selling games they mention that you can only sell the games once thru approved retailers. So are we no longer allowed to sell on ebay or craigs list? Thats always been one of the biggest selling points of why I chose console gaming over PC gaming, to be able to purchase and sell used games.

I was looking to put aside a substancial amount of change from my tax return money for my future XB1 purchase. But Microsoft is straying far away from what made them the go-to console this gen. In order to get consumers to accept all these radical changes they really need to have a nice affordable launch price and new game prices that are substancially lower than what they are now. Of course, I don't see either of those things happening. I'll probably get one eventually but right now I'm kind of conflicted.

WCP
06-07-2013, 02:20 AM
Doesn't anybody ever go on vacation, and maybe, just maybe, that place doesn't have internet, or the internet is too slow and sketchy ? I have little kids, and sometimes they go to their grandfathers house, and he doesn't have Wi-Fi, and his router is no where near where they would be putting the Xbox One. On the plus side, if we unplug it from the internet right before leaving for his house, then we should have enough time to play for an evening, so I guess it won't be too bad if the 24 hours starts at the time it was disconnected.

Still, any time I would be traveling on vacation, I'd like to take it with me, cause there is always a downtime where I could get some gaming in. Often the places that I end up staying at either are charging a ridiculous per day rate for internet and I pass on it, or they do have internet but it's too slow and unreliable for online play (although a check-in might work, not sure...)

kupomogli
06-07-2013, 03:08 AM
"Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friendís house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time."

Sounds to me like Sony's policy but with 10 accounts. This will probably be reduced to one or two once the game sharing groups start buying games. The game sharing fanbase should like the Xbox One.

Guyra
06-07-2013, 03:09 AM
This will be a great paper weight once they stop supporting it!

It took eight years from the first Xbox was released, until they shut down the Xbox Live for the console. That's only five years after the release of the Xbox 360. Once their next system after the Xbox One is released, will it only take another five years or so before they shut down the Xbox Live service for it?

Az
06-07-2013, 03:13 AM
Doesn't anybody ever go on vacation, and maybe, just maybe, that place doesn't have internet, or the internet is too slow and sketchy ?

Why does everyone keep using the vacation comparison? I know it may sound crazy, but their are large amounts of people that don't have *any* access to broadband.

Rev. Link
06-07-2013, 04:47 AM
I was happy to see that you will be able to turn off Kinect if you want, but I'm still not planning on buying this system. I don't know why anyone who considers themself a collector would want it. Once Microsoft takes the servers away it's over. The system won't work. All those games, lost to time.

If I can completely disconnect Kinect from the system, and one day down the line someone figures a way to hack this thing so it doesn't require any kind of internet connection, then I may buy one. But not until then.

Daltone
06-07-2013, 06:46 AM
Four words: Games for Windows Live. It's horrible, it barely works and (I never thought I'd be one of those people) I now avoid games like the plague when I see that it is present.

It doesn't fill me with confidence about the Xbox One.

Gamereviewgod has asked how any of this benefits the end user. I think that that is really the key question in all of this - how does this benefit me?

If the end result is that new games that were £50 at launch are now £30 because the second hand market and piracy isn't 'damaging sales' then ok, there is a benefit there. If you can get games for around a fiver after 12 - 18 months, fine. As a customer I don't lose out. I even benefit a little bit because brand new games are cheaper. The thing is, that's just not going to happen.

I love how lots of things are "up to the publisher". Effectively - don't shout at us, it's not our fault.

CoteRangers
06-07-2013, 06:48 AM
...Am I the only person who just wants to dust off my NES and play this for the generations instead of the Xbox One? I honestly don't like the idea of abandoning offline gaming, since even though I do like to compete against other players online, I have friends who I could play locally with. At least the Wii U has that capability, while at the same time has online capability as well. It's like Microsoft is not aware--and probably doesn't give a crap--about people who has friends and families who lives near them, or with them.
When I'll collect new games, I'll wait until the Xbox One discontinues in order to get it. Granted, I know that means that I wouldn't play some of the exclusives for the system, but I know that people will have a miserable time with the Xbox One. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to play with my Sega Genesis and my other old systems for the rest of the 8th generation.

Rob2600
06-07-2013, 10:28 AM
The computer industry has considered Microsoft to be an extremely evil, tasteless, anti-consumer, monopolistic company for decades.

Now Microsoft is applying those same behaviors and tactics to its video game console. Why are gamers so surprised?

TonyTheTiger
06-07-2013, 10:47 AM
Wow, all this talk about bringing down the network to block people from playing their games. That's like attacking your own people so you can blame it on the enemy.

Carbon
06-07-2013, 11:01 AM
NSFW, but too on-topic not to post. Again.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/7417-Next-Gen-Buyers-Guide

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-07-2013, 12:48 PM
Wow, all this talk about bringing down the network to block people from playing their games. That's like attacking your own people so you can blame it on the enemy.

All signs point to the coming generation being a turbulent one.

I can't imagine that Microsoft predicted anything like what has been going on for the past few weeks.

kupomogli
06-07-2013, 02:59 PM
Wow, all this talk about bringing down the network to block people from playing their games. That's like attacking your own people so you can blame it on the enemy.

Reminds me of this.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120414210752/tacticsogreletusclingtogether/images/5/5c/Baramus_Massacre.jpg

TonyTheTiger
06-07-2013, 03:19 PM
I can't imagine that Microsoft predicted anything like what has been going on for the past few weeks.

I feel like this can't be true. I just don't know how to comprehend it. Are all relevant parties suffering from chronic amnesia? Do the people who require their consumers have an Internet connection lack one themselves? People flipped their shit over the likes of Spore and The Sims. I just don't see how it could be unexpected. I think it's more along the lines of knowing but not caring. Figuring that if they stay the course and steamroll their way forward then eventually they'll instill a new normal through sheer tenacity. But they have to be aware, at least.

Hell, PSN was taken down for a month, likely stemming from the outrage over Linux of all things. The removal of a fringe feature was enough to spur a unified attack on the console's security, the results of which managed to compromise a hell of a lot more than DRM. Imagine how much worse an extended outage would be for the One. The United States government doesn't even have flawless security. I can't fathom Microsoft is ignorant to the point that the people who concocted this measure are not aware of what's been happening nor expecting similar assaults. Successful assaults. No matter how secure they think their systems are, they have to know that at some point the servers will go down, sometimes by force. They just probably figure the long term benefits of the "new normal" they want to instill outweigh the costs that will come when the inevitable does happen.

This is also why I can't see GameStop fully embracing it. They'd be putting their own well being in the hands of an infrastructure they don't control or maintain. Kid buys a copy of Halo and upon attempting to play it realizes the thing straight up doesn't function. Not "I can't play online" but literally "this disc seems broken." Who's likely to receive the brunt of that displeasure whereupon people wind up buying what appears on its surface to be an expensive coaster? Who will have to maintain shelves of Xbox One discs that, absent a warning, can't be sold in good faith until the servers come back on? It's confusing even for those of us who actually pay attention.

cholkavich
06-07-2013, 04:02 PM
http://youtu.be/ryB-hdtpQRw?t=20s

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-07-2013, 04:40 PM
I feel like this can't be true. I just don't know how to comprehend it. Are all relevant parties suffering from chronic amnesia? Do the people who require their consumers have an Internet connection lack one themselves? People flipped their shit over the likes of Spore and The Sims. I just don't see how it could be unexpected. I think it's more along the lines of knowing but not caring. Figuring that if they stay the course and steamroll their way forward then eventually they'll instill a new normal through sheer tenacity. But they have to be aware, at least.

Hell, PSN was taken down for a month, likely stemming from the outrage over Linux of all things. The removal of a fringe feature was enough to spur a unified attack on the console's security, the results of which managed to compromise a hell of a lot more than DRM. Imagine how much worse an extended outage would be for the One. The United States government doesn't even have flawless security. I can't fathom Microsoft is ignorant to the point that the people who concocted this measure are not aware of what's been happening nor expecting similar assaults. Successful assaults. No matter how secure they think their systems are, they have to know that at some point the servers will go down, sometimes by force. They just probably figure the long term benefits of the "new normal" they want to instill outweigh the costs that will come when the inevitable does happen.

This is also why I can't see GameStop fully embracing it. They'd be putting their own well being in the hands of an infrastructure they don't control or maintain. Kid buys a copy of Halo and upon attempting to play it realizes the thing straight up doesn't function. Not "I can't play online" but literally "this disc seems broken." Who's likely to receive the brunt of that displeasure whereupon people wind up buying what appears on its surface to be an expensive coaster? Who will have to maintain shelves of Xbox One discs that, absent a warning, can't be sold in good faith until the servers come back on? It's confusing even for those of us who actually pay attention.

What do you think the over/under is on the industry professionals at E3 actually booing/heckling during any presentation that bullet-points/confirms restrictive DRM/non-consumer-friendly practices?

TonyTheTiger
06-07-2013, 06:22 PM
Considering "industry professional" is practically an oxymoron, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know if they'd outright boo (the threat of being fired and all) but I do expect stone silence at any mention of the console's restrictions. Which is funny because I actually don't expect those restrictions to be brought up at all during E3. I happen to think Microsoft played this beautifully. They probably expected the console's functionality would cause a problem so they used the entirety of their pre-E3 press to get that out of the way which leaves E3 for nothing but software talk, probably hoping that the audience has the attention span of a goldfish and will be easily won over by all the pretty games and wind up walking away thinking "I can't even remember what we were fighting about!"

However, I think the One is now set up as a whipping boy. It'll be the console that the press can get away with beating on, fairly or otherwise, because it's just that much of an acceptable target. We haven't had one of those in the mainstream since the Jaguar. The kind of console that the public and press take active pleasure in subjecting to point and laugh ridicule but isn't so obscure that nobody gives a shit. I'm wondering if the current gaming press will get a free pass to abandon all pretense and return to the mudslinging and "wit" of 90s gaming magazines.

Rob2600
06-07-2013, 07:47 PM
PSN was taken down for a month, likely stemming from the outrage over Linux of all things. The removal of a fringe feature was enough to spur a unified attack on the console's security, the results of which managed to compromise a hell of a lot more than DRM. Imagine how much worse an extended outage would be for the One. The United States government doesn't even have flawless security. I can't fathom Microsoft is ignorant to the point that the people who concocted this measure are not aware of what's been happening nor expecting similar assaults. Successful assaults. No matter how secure they think their systems are, they have to know that at some point the servers will go down, sometimes by force. They just probably figure the long term benefits of the "new normal" they want to instill outweigh the costs that will come when the inevitable does happen.

This is also why I can't see GameStop fully embracing it. They'd be putting their own well being in the hands of an infrastructure they don't control or maintain. Kid buys a copy of Halo and upon attempting to play it realizes the thing straight up doesn't function. Not "I can't play online" but literally "this disc seems broken." Who's likely to receive the brunt of that displeasure whereupon people wind up buying what appears on its surface to be an expensive coaster? Who will have to maintain shelves of Xbox One discs that, absent a warning, can't be sold in good faith until the servers come back on? It's confusing even for those of us who actually pay attention.

I wouldn't be surprised if various hacker groups take down Microsoft's authentication servers at launch, so that a million people who just stood in line to buy the One get it home and can't even play it. The outrage will be epic.

Likewise for Christmas day- everyone who is so excited to hook up their newly unwrapped Ones and play the latest games, and all they get are "can't connect to the server" errors because, unbeknownst to them, hackers DDoSed the servers. And nobody can exchange it for a PS4 or Wii U because all the stores are closed Christmas Day. I'm sure parents will appreciate spending $500 on a brick, meanwhile their children are whining and crying all day, asking nonstop "Why won't my Xbox work?".

In either scenario, there will be a ton of returns and livid customers. Or maybe, just maybe, Microsoft will wise up and change its tune before launch.

Q4 2013 will be very interesting.

The 1 2 P
06-07-2013, 07:56 PM
I don't know why anyone who considers themself a collector would want it.

To be fair, Microsoft has never made any of their consoles for collectors. They are for gamers or people who like to have multiple options of entertainment on one box. And that will continue to be the majority of their market. I'm sure there will still be collectors of XB1 in the future but I won't be one of them.


If the end result is that new games that were £50 at launch are now £30 because the second hand market and piracy isn't 'damaging sales' then ok, there is a benefit there. If you can get games for around a fiver after 12 - 18 months, fine. As a customer I don't lose out. I even benefit a little bit because brand new games are cheaper. The thing is, that's just not going to happen.

I touched on this in my last comment and it's a biggie for me. Not being able to freely buy and sell my used games at my leisure is a huge letdown. However, the blow could be significantly softened if the price of new games was $30-$40 max. But essencially selling a license to play a game for the usually $60 it cost for games today? I want no part of that.

Greg2600
06-07-2013, 07:59 PM
I have to think that PS4 will have DRM, because the XBONE DRM is publisher-driven. The publishers have been whining for years about piracy, but I have to say, I don't see piracy as a major issue like it is to music and movies.

Rob2600
06-07-2013, 08:04 PM
I have to think that PS4 will have DRM, because the XBONE DRM is publisher-driven. The publishers have been whining for years about piracy, but I have to say, I don't see piracy as a major issue like it is to music and movies.

They still don't understand that DRM only hurts paying customers and increases piracy.

WCP
06-07-2013, 09:34 PM
. But essentially selling a license to play a game for the usually $60 it cost for games today? I want no part of that.

Yeah, it's like me on the PC. I built a gaming PC a couple of years ago, and I normally spend $9.99 or less on every game I buy. I haven't bought a single PC game over $9.99. I try to get most games for 5 bucks if possible.

My main theory behind this is that I'm basically just leasing the games. I can never sell them to anybody, I can't trade them, I can't give them to a nephew. So, to me, it's just a very long rental. I have a hard time paying more than $9.99 for a rental.

Gamevet
06-07-2013, 10:29 PM
This will be a great paper weight once they stop supporting it!

It took eight years from the first Xbox was released, until they shut down the Xbox Live for the console. That's only five years after the release of the Xbox 360. Once their next system after the Xbox One is released, will it only take another five years or so before they shut down the Xbox Live service for it?

I was thinking the same thing. Would your XBOXONE library suddenly become useless?

sloan
06-07-2013, 11:03 PM
All the stuff I read makes my head spin, so can someone break this down for me?

Why, exactly, do we need a console to require that we login online once every 24 hours? What happens if we fail to do so, the games we own become permanently disabled?

What happens to the ability to sell/trade used games? Can it be done with XB1?

Finally, is it only a matter of when, not if, someone cracks this device and permanently disables the 24 hour and whatever other restrictive methods its employs?

Gamevet
06-07-2013, 11:31 PM
All the stuff I read makes my head spin, so can someone break this down for me?

Why, exactly, do we need a console to require that we login online once every 24 hours? What happens if we fail to do so, the games we own become permanently disabled?



You have to login once, in a 24 hour period, to play a game offline. That means that you can login on Friday at 11:50 PM to play game X and don't have to login to play game X until 11:50 PM on Saturday the following day. If your internet connection failed, 5 minutes after you had logged in on Friday, you'd still be able to play your games for 24 hours after that login.

The 1 2 P
06-08-2013, 01:25 AM
Why, exactly, do we need a console to require that we login online once every 24 hours?

To authenticate that the games you are playing belong to you, as in they were registered and installed to your console/account. If the system checks in and you are playing a game that isn't registered to you I think your console blows up or just stops playing while a voice over of a dude with a bad French accent constantly repeats "naughty naughty".


What happens if we fail to do so, the games we own become permanently disabled?

Not permanently, just until you can reconnect to the internet. In the meantime you are free to continue watching live tv, dvds and blurays while offline.


What happens to the ability to sell/trade used games? Can it be done with XB1?

That hasn't been fully clarified but heres what we do know: Microsoft said it's basically up to the publishers to allow trade-ins and resells. So while technically it's possible to do both, if a publisher(EA, Activision, Ubisoft, etc) decides they don't want to allow you to resell, trade in or even give away your copy of Madden, COD, Assassins Creed, etc then you are then stuck with a useless disc, case and probably 2 page insert manual.

Essencially this system has been set up to replicate that of PC gaming. The weird thing is that everyone seems to worship Steam but now that Microsoft is taking a similiar route everyone is complaining about it. Not that I blame them since the current model of trading/reselling used games isn't broken but publishers keep complaining about lost profits and that has lead us to this. Beyond that there is still more clarification that will be forthcoming, just not soon enough.

Griking
06-08-2013, 03:07 PM
Nevermind. It's already been said.

PreZZ
06-09-2013, 02:17 PM
I truly wish that lots of kids will get xbox one for christmas, and then parents would realize it just doesnt work when they open it at grandmas place and cant play it, that their kids have to be online, etc. Lots of parents dont want the console being connected to the internet. Lots of returns following christmas day would be awesome, and a huge message to microsoft that we dont want no bullshit. Consoles are supposed to be simple, just plug and play, thats the point of playing on consoles. I would rather buy my next gen games on steam for less than 10$ if its going to be this complicated and used games having no value. I hope Sony not commenting their policies is because they are replanning everything after seeing the ms Pr nightmare after the unveiling of xbox1.

WCP
06-09-2013, 02:35 PM
I truly wish that lots of kids will get xbox one for christmas, and then parents would realize it just doesnt work when they open it at grandmas place and cant play it, that their kids have to be online, etc. Lots of parents dont want the console being connected to the internet. Lots of returns following christmas day would be awesome, and a huge message to microsoft that we dont want no bullshit. Consoles are supposed to be simple, just plug and play, thats the point of playing on consoles. I would rather buy my next gen games on steam for less than 10$ if its going to be this complicated and used games having no value. I hope Sony not commenting their policies is because they are replanning everything after seeing the ms Pr nightmare after the unveiling of xbox1.



You have to imagine that there will be some pretty large warning stickers on the box that says it requires an internet connection at least once per 24 hours for gaming functions to work. It's going to be a somewhat embarrassing sticker for Microsoft, but they are going to have to put something like that on the box, that's relatively easy to notice.

Malon_Forever
06-09-2013, 06:37 PM
^Horrible flash backs of getting Majoras Mask on Xmas day!

Robocop2
06-09-2013, 11:39 PM
Funnily enough; I was almost 100% sure my next gen console would be the 360's replacement way back when. Hasn't even been a contest between this gen's systems in sheer volume of games I have purchased. Now; unless something changes I won't own one out of sheer principle if not the other ridiculous things.
Not alot can be said about the silliness of the whole 24 hr. login thing or the used games situation on the system that has not already been said.

I could see the eventuality that they might offer to "upgrade" your current game for a small fee to a DRM-free copy similar to what Apple did with iTunes several years back. you had regular song but could upgrade to the better one for a small up charge. Perhaps that will be a possible scenario? Of course that says little about still requiring a check in every 24 hrs (which is my major beef if you haven't already picked up on that)

At least I have a sizeable backlog of things this generation that need playing and stuff far older to enjoy. I never thought I would consider leaving modern gaming in one fell swoop but unless something changes or Sony knocks everyone out with some other easy to use non obtrusive and rather anti consumer practice; I will probably do just that.

Icarus Moonsight
06-10-2013, 01:55 AM
I'm thoroughly convinced, 21st century console gaming blows. 1983... 2013... lol

Frankie_Says_Relax
06-10-2013, 03:07 PM
Based on how they positioned at E3 after weeks of major public backlash over DRM and privacy concerns, I'm thinking that Microsoft is going to go completely radio silent about these things until post-launch.

GamerTheGreek
06-10-2013, 05:23 PM
If a flood of returns come back the day after Christmas. And how GameStop in the past says cash payments are faster than credits. Get in out and gaming faster. What is the implications of. 5-10 cash returns when a store opens and they can't give you cash since they don't have it available and your stuck your plastic turd?

misfits859
06-10-2013, 06:03 PM
So, on top of all the other nonsense now we get to a $500 launch price. No thanks. I hate to say it but I'm kinda hoping this things flops a bit.

TonyTheTiger
06-10-2013, 06:08 PM
I'm completely shocked that it's that expensive. At a time when most have tightened their belts, expecting to sell any console for above $400 seems like a fool's hope. If the Wii U and 3DS looked like they had lukewarm launches...yeah. I certainly don't expect the One to fly off the shelves at that price.

YoshiM
06-10-2013, 07:10 PM
I'm completely shocked that it's that expensive. At a time when most have tightened their belts, expecting to sell any console for above $400 seems like a fool's hope. If the Wii U and 3DS looked like they had lukewarm launches...yeah. I certainly don't expect the One to fly off the shelves at that price.

People seem to be able to cough up boku cash for iPads on the same economy so it's not that far of a stretch to think they'll do the same for a One. Five months , $100 a month. It's doable for a lot of folks.

Rob2600
06-10-2013, 08:28 PM
I'm completely shocked that it's that expensive. At a time when most have tightened their belts, expecting to sell any console for above $400 seems like a fool's hope. If the Wii U and 3DS looked like they had lukewarm launches...yeah. I certainly don't expect the One to fly off the shelves at that price.

You underestimate Halo, Call of Duty, and Madden fans :)

Greg2600
06-10-2013, 08:41 PM
CoD and Madden will also be on PS4. Is Halo still a big deal? The PS4 I can't imagine being any cheaper. Much of what happens depends on how long Microsoft keeps the 360 going. If they shut it down soon, that will infuriate a lot of people, and force them into choosing a competitor.

Ed Oscuro
06-11-2013, 12:34 PM
There might just be a few fewer Halo fans after all of this.

Besides, Bungie is making a game for the PS4.

Greg2600
06-12-2013, 08:44 PM
Well I read Microsoft being snarky, saying if you don't like the XBONE, then stick with the 360, it's not going away anytime soon. Okay, that's good news for people who can't afford a new system.

Howie6925
06-14-2013, 04:06 AM
I was just wondering if anybody knows since the games can't be sold used or traded in, what about the systems itself? Can you or would you be able to buy a used system, anywhere since it is only specific retailer that can sell used games.

The Adventurer
06-14-2013, 04:52 AM
Essencially this system has been set up to replicate that of PC gaming. The weird thing is that everyone seems to worship Steam but now that Microsoft is taking a similiar route everyone is complaining about it.

STEAM doesn't require you to check online once ever 24 hours to authenticate your games. You activate it once (usually right after downloading it) on your PC, and you can be offline as long as you desire.

Also Steams gets around the whole used game question by spoiling us with regular sales, and other discounts. There has been no real indication from Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo that sales will be a regular feature of their eShops.

Guyra
06-14-2013, 07:07 AM
The weird thing is that everyone seems to worship Steam but now that Microsoft is taking a similiar route everyone is complaining about it.

There are some things you need to keep in mind, though: The first one being that they're trying to make a computer gaming machine for console gamers. The second being that the physical copies you're buying will only be for not having to download the game after buying it - because you will not be able to use that disc offline, or when the system's no longer supported. And third, as The Adventurer stated, Steam doesn't require you to authenticate all the time, and they've constantly got sales and overall cheap prices - much more so than what we see in the Xbox Marketplace, or in the Playstation Store or Nintendo eShop for that matter.

Oh, and fourth: With Steam, you can upgrade your computer, get a completely new one, or have several of them, and keep playing the games that you have bought. With no restrictions.

kupomogli
06-14-2013, 09:42 AM
One thing I'm starting to notice with newer games on Steam is that the prices aren't much cheaper than the console versions now, if at all. Some PC games are launching at the same price as console games and are no longer dropping in price as quick or going on sale as often as they used to. Tomb Raider has been on sale through Green Man Gaming for less than $20, but it's sitting on Steam right now for $50 while the console versions are $30. Bioshock Infinite is $60 on Steam while $40 on consoles. Indie games are a whole hell of a lot cheaper, but it seems that the larger publishers games are on sale far less than they were before. I really don't buy digital if there's a physical copy out there so it's a non issue to me, but just saying.

With Xbox One, you don't have multiple venues to purchase these games from though. Digital prices for PS3 take awhile to drop, but digital prices on the 360 seem to never drop. What happens when gets are released digital only through Xbox One's marketplace? Because the discs are worthless after install, you know a lot of smaller developers are going to cut costs by not even releasing a disc versions, even if they're full budget game. You'll only be able to purchase from Microsoft and who knows if the price will ever drop.

Kitsune Sniper
06-14-2013, 10:16 AM
There are some things you need to keep in mind, though: The first one being that they're trying to make a computer gaming machine for console gamers. The second being that the physical copies you're buying will only be for not having to download the game after buying it - because you will not be able to use that disc offline, or when the system's no longer supported. And third, as The Adventurer stated, Steam doesn't require you to authenticate all the time, and they've constantly got sales and overall cheap prices - much more so than what we see in the Xbox Marketplace, or in the Playstation Store or Nintendo eShop for that matter.

Oh, and fourth: With Steam, you can upgrade your computer, get a completely new one, or have several of them, and keep playing the games that you have bought. With no restrictions.Actually there are two kinds of restrictions:

1 - Your hardware or OS is incompatible with the game. Some games, like Stubbs The Zombie, no longer work due to them having issues with modern hardware (missing some features from older video cards) and they were pulled from the store. Some other games, like Just Cause 2, require Windows Vista or better.

2 - The game may still have some DRM on top of Steam. Stuff like SecuROM with a limited amount of activations. If you run out, SecuROM may not give you more, and Steam tells you you're boned.

And of course, region locking / censorship, but that's another can of worms.

CDiablo
06-14-2013, 02:54 PM
I was just wondering if anybody knows since the games can't be sold used or traded in, what about the systems itself? Can you or would you be able to buy a used system, anywhere since it is only specific retailer that can sell used games.

The games can be sold used. Oddly enough Ive heard rumors that the MS has not commented on if you can resell your bone, which has led to strong rumors, which has led to internet fact that it cannot be resold.

Rob2600
06-14-2013, 05:24 PM
Microsoft is supposedly sending out reps to hijack Nintendo's Best Buy demos:

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=205110

and

http://haverzine.com/2013/06/13/microsoft-employees-reportedly-ambushing-nintendos-best-buy-e3-experience-events/

"Microsoft has reportedly been sending in Microsoft employees into Nintendoís Best Buy E3 experience events, which have been set up in Best Buys across the country to allow consumers to play some of the new Nintendo games that have been announced at E3 this year, in an effort to bash the Wii U and to promote the company's upcoming XBox One. The XBox One has certainly fallen out of favor with hardcore gamers, driving many to flock to the Nintendo Wii U as an alternative.

Numerous reports (along with some damning photos) have come out from those claiming to have withnessed these so-called ambushes by Microsoft employees themselves. The Microsofties were reportedly asking customers why they were bothering with the Nintendo Wii U when the XBox One was 'right around the corner'."

WCP
06-14-2013, 05:54 PM
The games can be sold used.

Actually, it's not quite that simple.

Let's say you have Need for Speed Rivals for the Xbox One. You've played the game for a couple of months, but you're just not into the game anymore and you want to get rid of the game and get something back for it.

1. First, you'd have to see if the publisher (in this case EA) even allows you to do anything with the game when you're done with the game. It's not a given that you'll be allowed to trade the game in, or give it to a friend.

2. Let's assume that they actually allow it.

3. Ok, so you basically have two options. You can either take the game to the appropriate retailer that is offering buy back for that specific game, or you can "gift" the game to somebody that has been on your friends list for 30 days.

4. Let's talk about the trade in part of the equation first:

a. You can only trade in the game to retailers that have specifically set up terms with EA to buy back Need for Speed Rivals on Xbox One. This means, that you can't just take this game to any given store that buys used games. You have to take it to one that has agreed to EA's terms and conditions. There is always the possibility that EA and GameStop can't come to an agreement, but EA and Best Buy do have an agreement. This would mean that you would have to take the game to Best Buy instead of GameStop.

b. Also, because these publishers are going to be working out specific deals with the retailers, expect to get less money for your trade-ins than normal. If you normally got 20 bucks store credit for your game, now you're likely to get 10 bucks credit or 15 bucks credit. The chances of you getting the 20 bucks credit that you'd normally expect are extremely slim, because now the publisher is going to be taking a huge cut.


5. Ok, let's talk about "gifting" a game to someone on your friends list (that has been on the list for at least 30 days):


a. Ok, so, you want to sell your game to somebody directly, because you know that you'll only get pennies on the dollar if you take it to the authorized trade-in retail partner of the publisher. Unfortunately, you can't just put your game on Ebay or Craigslist. Instead, you are allowed to "gift" the game to a friend, in a one time transaction.


"Wait a minute ! I don't want to gift the game, I want to sell it ! "


Yeah, well about that. You see, technically, a direct sale is not allowed. So basically, you're going to have to find a buyer on your friends list, and work out how you'll be paid for the game, and then once you're paid, you will then "gift" the game to the new owner.

b. Also, remember, that if you normally sold a game to somebody, that person would be able to play the game, and then eventually sell it to somebody else. Because this isn't allowed anymore, the buyer of a used game isn't going to want to pay as much as they would pay normally, because they know that game is stuck to them, and they have no further recourse, so you'll likely end up with less money when you sell your stuff.

The Adventurer
06-14-2013, 06:08 PM
Not to give to much positive to a bad situation. But why couldn't your Friends List friend pass the game on after he's done with it? I'm not sure I've seen anywhere that a game can only be transferred once.

WCP
06-14-2013, 06:43 PM
Not to give to much positive to a bad situation. But why couldn't your Friends List friend pass the game on after he's done with it? I'm not sure I've seen anywhere that a game can only be transferred once.


It's a one time deal.


Here are some Xbox One quotes that need to be studied...


Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.


In our role as a game publisher, Microsoft Studios will enable you to give your games to friends or trade in your Xbox One games at participating retailers. Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers.



In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends.



Anything that can be enabled, can also, not be enabled.

The Adventurer
06-14-2013, 06:46 PM
It's a one time deal.

WELP

F those guys then.

The 1 2 P
06-14-2013, 08:53 PM
Also Steams gets around the whole used game question by spoiling us with regular sales, and other discounts. There has been no real indication from Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo that sales will be a regular feature of their eShops.

But they are still doing the same thing and restricting used games. Steam restricts ALL used game sales while Microsoft lets you use and sell used games in a limited capacity. But for the sake of argument lets just say that they both restrict used games. You can sugarcoat it all you want with the Steam sales but it's still the same damn thing. And I say that as someone who doesn't like or approve of Microsoft's policy because it isn't the norm for console gaming. But at the end of the day, Steam and XB1 both restrict used game sales. The difference is that PC gamers have gotten used to this and don't really complain about it anymore. Since this is new for console gamers they have atleast been trying to verbally fight back, for whatever thats worth.



There are some things you need to keep in mind, though: The first one being that they're trying to make a computer gaming machine for console gamers.

See my first post and my response to The Adventurer.


The second being that the physical copies you're buying will only be for not having to download the game after buying it - because you will not be able to use that disc offline, or when the system's no longer supported.

True but if you resell/trade the disc in the new purchaser will need it to install the game to their system.



And third they've constantly got sales and overall cheap prices - much more so than what we see in the Xbox Marketplace, or in the Playstation Store or Nintendo eShop for that matter.

While I enjoy sales as much as the next guy you do realize that you are using that as an excuse. "It's ok that I can't play used games on Steam because they have sales but it's not ok that you can't play used games on XB1 because we don't know what kind of sales they will have." Granted, we have no idea what kind of sales Microsoft will have. They have some pretty decent ones now(including free games every year) but I'll agree that their sales over the past four years I've had my 360 haven't been as frequent or as cheap as Steams. But regardless, they are still doing pretty much the same thing in regards to restricting used games, minus the 24 hour authentication.



Oh, and fourth: With Steam, you can upgrade your computer, get a completely new one, or have several of them, and keep playing the games that you have bought. With no restrictions.

You can still play all the games on your account if you get a new XB1. Thats the whole reason they are using that authentication program. The major issue will of course be when they decide to shut down the servers.

Howie6925
06-14-2013, 09:16 PM
MS has not commented on if you can resell your bone, which has led to strong rumors, which has led to internet fact that it cannot be resold.

Oh, that would kinda suck if it can't be resold. I wonder how that would work for the content you buy? Is it tied to the system or the user account?

The Adventurer
06-14-2013, 10:12 PM
But they are still doing the same thing and restricting used games. Steam restricts ALL used game sales while Microsoft lets you use and sell used games in a limited capacity. But for the sake of argument lets just say that they both restrict used games. You can sugarcoat it all you want with the Steam sales but it's still the same damn thing. And I say that as someone who doesn't like or approve of Microsoft's policy because it isn't the norm for console gaming. But at the end of the day, Steam and XB1 both restrict used game sales. The difference is that PC gamers have gotten used to this and don't really complain about it anymore. Since this is new for console gamers they have atleast been trying to verbally fight back, for whatever thats worth.


Okay, but here's the thing. When I buy from Steam I am buying digital goods. It's a given that selling, sharing, or otherwise transferring games will be difficult to impossible. That is something I accept as a digital only consumer.

But we're talking about physical media. If Microsoft wanted to go full digital only, they should have just done that and given up all physical product sales. As it stands trying to have it both ways is just going to sow confusion and disdain with a consumer base that is used to doing things a certain way.

And Microsoft is basically breaking a system that isn't broken, and reinventing the wheel rarely works out in the short run.

The 1 2 P
06-14-2013, 10:48 PM
Okay, but here's the thing. When I buy from Steam I am buying digital goods. It's a given that selling, sharing, or otherwise transferring games will be difficult to impossible. That is something I accept as a digital only consumer.

But we're talking about physical media. If Microsoft wanted to go full digital only, they should have just done that and given up all physical product sales. As it stands trying to have it both ways is just going to sow confusion and disdain with a consumer base that is used to doing things a certain way.

And Microsoft is basically breaking a system that isn't broken, and reinventing the wheel rarely works out in the short run.

While I was initially just comparing the used games model they are imploring I agree with you that digital vs physical is a big determining factor. And like I also said in other threads, the used game model for consoles works perfectly fine the way it is. But going back to my initial statement, Microsoft is essentially just copying the PC used game model. Doesn't mean I like or agree with it(I don't) but it is what it is. It seems they are just doing this as a precursor to their next console that will evidently be all-digital. I think they should of saved all their DRM for that system and left this one alone.

JakeM
06-15-2013, 03:04 AM
Mother fucker :/ The PS4 is region free for god sakes! I think Microsoft just doesnt like Japan, and theyre cutting them off.

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-cant-tell-us-if-the-xbox-one-is-region-free-513494440

Also, these videos are hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkZNNaYBro

Guyra
06-15-2013, 05:54 AM
See my first post and my response to The Adventurer.
Actually, I see nowhere where you actually explain why trying to market one thing to someone interested in something else is a good thing. And I tried looking for it.



True but if you resell/trade the disc in the new purchaser will need it to install the game to their system.
I think you missed the point. The point is not whether or not someone else will have to do the same thing, it is that unlike actual video games, which play straight from the disc(or cart), this thing you have to install. Just like a PC game. Except you, in essence, also need to be constantly connected to the internet.

Basically, the discs have no actual value: They only serve to reduce bandwidth usage. On a system that has to be always on anyway. You can not play the game with the disc only, and you can not play offline even though you have to install the game. So your physical copy is basically as much worth as a physical copy of any MMO game - not much, and certainly not once the servers are taken down.

Once they were going with this thing anyway, Microsoft should've just gone eShop only. They'd have saved a lot of money on not having the discs for the system. People have to be online anyway, so they'd be better off just downloading the game. It's usually even a bit cheaper to buy games for download instead of physical copies, too.



While I enjoy sales as much as the next guy you do realize that you are using that as an excuse. "It's ok that I can't play used games on Steam because they have sales but it's not ok that you can't play used games on XB1 because we don't know what kind of sales they will have." Granted, we have no idea what kind of sales Microsoft will have. They have some pretty decent ones now(including free games every year) but I'll agree that their sales over the past four years I've had my 360 haven't been as frequent or as cheap as Steams. But regardless, they are still doing pretty much the same thing in regards to restricting used games, minus the 24 hour authentication.
Except that you can quite often pay less than you would pay for a used game there. And I doubt Microsoft will have a very different policy on sales with the Xbox One as opposed to the Xbox 360.

Also, those aren't free games - those are games that paying subscribers to Xbox Live Gold will get. In which case they're not actually free anymore. Players who do not pay to have Xbox Live Gold accounts, do not get any of these "free" games.



You can still play all the games on your account if you get a new XB1. Thats the whole reason they are using that authentication program. The major issue will of course be when they decide to shut down the servers.
Sorry, but you missed the point again: When you buy a new Xbox 1, you get the same thing. Except maybe a version with more disc space. When you buy a new computer, you can get one that is twice as powerful as your current one.

And how is that "the whole reason they are using that authentication program?" Because last I checked, you could do get a new Xbox 360, Wii, Wii U, and PS3 as well, and still play the games on your account. Without that authentication program.

The 1 2 P
06-15-2013, 10:09 AM
Actually, I see nowhere where you actually explain why trying to market one thing to someone interested in something else is a good thing. And I tried looking for it.


No this is what you originally said:


they're trying to make a computer gaming machine for console gamers

And this was my original post:


Essencially this system has been set up to replicate that of PC gaming. The weird thing is that everyone seems to worship Steam but now that Microsoft is taking a similiar route everyone is complaining about it.



I think you missed the point. The point is not whether or not someone else will have to do the same thing, it is that unlike actual video games, which play straight from the disc(or cart), this thing you have to install. Just like a PC game. Except you, in essence, also need to be constantly connected to the internet.

I understood it perfectly, I was just adding that the disc could be reused if certain publishers allowed it. But yes it would once again only be for the purpose of an install. I also think they should have just gone all digital instead of doing this half-ass but their execs thought this was for the best.



Also, those aren't free games - those are games that paying subscribers to Xbox Live Gold will get. In which case they're not actually free anymore. Players who do not pay to have Xbox Live Gold accounts, do not get any of these "free" games.

Yes they are free. I've paid between $8-$30 a year for XBL for the past several years and any free games I've gotten were actually free, meaning they weren't advertised as part of the initial service(paid online multiplayer) when I signed up and were thrown in as a free bonus. Unlike PSN, if I cancel my XBL membership I get to keep all 15+ games I've gotten for free over the last 4 years. And the samething goes for all future free games. Your logic is very flawed to think that if you are a paid member of a specific service and you get additional free items that were not advertised as part of that service when you signed up that somehow those items aren't really free. By that assumption, if you are a paid cable subscriber and sometime after you've been a member for twelve months or so they offer you a free choice of five different pay-per-views as a thank you gift for staying with them you aren't really getting it for free because you are paying your regular monthly bill but will not have to pay the $50-$60 for the ppv. Thats just not correct.



Sorry, but you missed the point again: When you buy a new Xbox 1, you get the same thing. Except maybe a version with more disc space. When you buy a new computer, you can get one that is twice as powerful as your current one.

And how is that "the whole reason they are using that authentication program?" Because last I checked, you could do get a new Xbox 360, Wii, Wii U, and PS3 as well, and still play the games on your account. Without that authentication program.

For the first part, all you initially said was that with Steam you can keep playing your games if you get a new PC(same thing for getting a new XB1) or have several of them(you can play on any XB1 as long as you are logged into your account) and can upgrade your PC. I'm well aware of PC upgrading for sound cards, graphics cards, memory and everything else. So your point was that you can upgrade your PC to make it more powerful(and pay alot more money in the process)than not upgrading a current gen console? As for the second part, what else would they be using authentification for but to check rather the games you play are legitimately part of your account? It's their form of DRM.

Ed Oscuro
06-15-2013, 10:13 AM
Did you folks see this yet?
http://i.imgur.com/fWpJY1n.jpg
and this:
http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/56733/_1371234074.jpg
Some more information on that suspicious HP box here:
http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/06/14/e3-2013-was-microsoft-using-pcs-with-nvidia-cards-to-demo-xbox-one-games-at-e3/

PC ports incoming confirmed! :p

kainemaxwell
06-15-2013, 12:55 PM
Whoops, wrong board.

Guyra
06-15-2013, 02:16 PM
I understood it perfectly, I was just adding that the disc could be reused if certain publishers allowed it. But yes it would once again only be for the purpose of an install. I also think they should have just gone all digital instead of doing this half-ass but their execs thought this was for the best.
Apparently not. They are making a system that is more comparable to a PC than a console, and they're making it for(ie. marketing it towards) console gamers.

And yeah, I agree, they shouldn't have done things half assed like they have.


Yes they are free. I've paid between $8-$30 a year for XBL for the past several years and any free games I've gotten were actually free, meaning they weren't advertised as part of the initial service(paid online multiplayer) when I signed up and were thrown in as a free bonus. Unlike PSN, if I cancel my XBL membership I get to keep all 15+ games I've gotten for free over the last 4 years. And the samething goes for all future free games. Your logic is very flawed to think that if you are a paid member of a specific service and you get additional free items that were not advertised as part of that service when you signed up that somehow those items aren't really free. By that assumption, if you are a paid cable subscriber and sometime after you've been a member for twelve months or so they offer you a free choice of five different pay-per-views as a thank you gift for staying with them you aren't really getting it for free because you are paying your regular monthly bill but will not have to pay the $50-$60 for the ppv. Thats just not correct.
They are only "free" if you have the subscription. Normal Xbox Live members do not get them, ie. they have to pay for Gold membership if they want them. This is not flawed logic. Sure, they are bonuses, but they are not truly for free. You have to pay for the service through which you get them. You don't get them unless you are paying Microsoft money. How is that free? The same with your hypothetical example there. You don't get those PPVs without handing money over to the cable company in the first place. Again, it's not free, it's an added bonus, and one that is there only to keep you paying, and get more people subscribing. I'm not saying it's bad practise, getting some added bonus benefits when you're paying for something is great. I'm just saying it's not really free, it just seems like it is to the paying customer.

Although kudos to MS for letting you keep the games. I'm not really for having to pay for PS+ anyway, just to make that clear.



For the first part, all you initially said was that with Steam you can keep playing your games if you get a new PC(same thing for getting a new XB1) or have several of them(you can play on any XB1 as long as you are logged into your account) and can upgrade your PC. I'm well aware of PC upgrading for sound cards, graphics cards, memory and everything else. So your point was that you can upgrade your PC to make it more powerful(and pay alot more money in the process)than not upgrading a current gen console?
While you can play on a different XB1 using your account, you can only do so for a single hour, and then your "home" XB1 will have to reauthenticate. That is barely being able to play anywhere else at all. That is a restriction.

And upgrading your computer(or buying a brand new one), compare it to switching from the Xbox 360 to the Xbox One. You get a brand new gaming machine. But you're no longer able to play the Xbox 360 games on your XB1. Although some 360 games will be available on the Live Marketplace, but then you'd have to buy them a second time. The same goes for the PS4.

With a PC on the other hand, you can still play all the games that you bought since before the nineties if you so want. And you don't pay more money upgrading your computer to specs better than the consoles, than you would pay for the consoles themselves. And when the next generation of consoles comes out, you can upgrade again, and keep playing all your favourite games, both new and old, still on that one machine.


As for the second part, what else would they be using authentification for but to check rather the games you play are legitimately part of your account? It's their form of DRM.
It is also used to check on what machine you're playing. As I mentioned above, and as several others probably have mentioned as well, you are only allowed to play for a single hour if you're not playing on that one console to which your account is connected. That is no longer just checking whether you own the game or not, it is restricting how you enjoy playing. For example, I often get together with friends and play for hours at a time. Quite often the game does not belong in the home we're at, but we can still play it for as long as we like. With XB1, we'd only be able to play for a single hour, before I'd have to get home and make sure my XB1 gets reauthenticated.

And don't forget, it doesn't just want to authenticate when playing games. It wants to authenticate once every day, no matter if you even own a game or no. That is not DRM.



Anyway, I hope you see my points by now. If not, then I don't see how else I can make you understand them. In any case, this will be my last post in reply to you on these matters because I'm simply not cut out for long discussions - it's simply a bit taxing on me. Cheers! :)

JakeM
06-15-2013, 05:03 PM
http://kotaku.com/microsoft-we-wont-render-your-xbox-one-games-unplayab-513602148?rev=1371329536&utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow


The question:
After the Xbox One servers are shut down at the end of the new generation, will Xbox One games still be playable?



Major Nelson's answer (emphasis added):
I'll just say this: We haven't even started this generation, so it's kind of early to talk about the end of the generation. That's certainly something we would not do. That's not the way the system is designed. It's designed for flexibility. But let's get the system out there first.


Its like someone from EA is leering at him off camera, when the hell will Microsoft give up trying to be the bad guy?

Carnby
06-15-2013, 08:29 PM
Mother fucker :/ The PS4 is region free for god sakes! I think Microsoft just doesnt like Japan, and theyre cutting them off.

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-cant-tell-us-if-the-xbox-one-is-region-free-513494440

Also, these videos are hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkZNNaYBro

LOL that was great. I'm sharing this with GAF. Thanks.

The 1 2 P
06-15-2013, 10:46 PM
They are making a system that is more comparable to a PC than a console, and they're making it for(ie. marketing it towards) console gamers.

I'm pretty sure I said that same thing multiple times already. As for how they market it, thats up to them. But I will point out that many people who play console games also play PC games so it's a bit easier for them to understand than the casual gamer. But until they further clarify things everyone(core and casual gamers alike) will be a bit confused.



They are only "free" if you have the subscription. Normal Xbox Live members do not get them, ie. they have to pay for Gold membership if they want them. This is not flawed logic. Sure, they are bonuses, but they are not truly for free. You have to pay for the service through which you get them. You don't get them unless you are paying Microsoft money. How is that free? The same with your hypothetical example there. You don't get those PPVs without handing money over to the cable company in the first place. Again, it's not free, it's an added bonus, and one that is there only to keep you paying, and get more people subscribing. I'm not saying it's bad practise, getting some added bonus benefits when you're paying for something is great. I'm just saying it's not really free, it just seems like it is to the paying customer.

Although kudos to MS for letting you keep the games. I'm not really for having to pay for PS+ anyway, just to make that clear.

You can call them bonuses but that doesn't change the fact that they are still free and I'll give you two examples why. First, a good majority of the free games are games that you in fact have to pay for. Let's take Fable III for example. It's free to download this month only(and obviously yes you have to be a gold subscriber) but next month it will go back up for $10 or whatever Games On Demand price it normally is. Thats taking something that is normally a paid-for item and making it free. It wasn't advertised as part of my subscription. Looking at my 3 month Gold card in front of me, it mentions playing games with friends, watching movies and video apps and chatting face-to-face with friends. Theres no mention of getting free games. Second, lets take four games I have downloaded as an example. Crysis, Alan Wake: AA, Uno and Fable III again. Two of those games I had to buy with actual currency/Microsoft points. They weren't given to me for free because I'm a paying member of XBL. The other two games were both given to me for free at different random times. And although I got Uno and Fable for free(as I will get Halo 3 and Assassin's Creed II for free next month), they are not free downloads on XBL marketplace. A game like Crash Course is free to download for any gold XBL members at any time. But for alot of other select games, they are not free games. They are paid games that Microsoft may randomly make for free to gold members for a very limited amount of time.

I used the cable example because I wanted another subscription example but you could also take WB dvd movies that come out right before a WB/DC comic movie. Those first run dvds will usually have a free movie ticket to one of the WB/DC comic movies. I suppose you could call it a bonus but that doesn't change the fact that you are getting something for free that normally cost between $8-$12. The price you pay is for the dvd itself(and second run dvs of the same title will no longer include the coupon but still be sold for the same price until they go on sale), much like the price I pay for XBL is primarily for online multiplayer. Ultimately we'll just using different terms to describe the same thing and while the games are a bonus they are still free until Microsoft starts charging for them again.



While you can play on a different XB1 using your account, you can only do so for a single hour, and then your "home" XB1 will have to reauthenticate. That is barely being able to play anywhere else at all. That is a restriction.

The first part of your quote is correct. When playing on XB1 systems that are not your own you can only play offline for an hour. After that hour the console you are playing on simply needs to check online and you can continue playing. It doesn't need to do anything with your home console. So basically, play your own XB1 and you'll need to do an online check in once every 24 hours. Play someone else's XB1 with your account and you will have to do an online check in every hour to continue playing offline. It's simply a more annoying check in process than the one you use while playing at home.


And upgrading your computer(or buying a brand new one), compare it to switching from the Xbox 360 to the Xbox One. You get a brand new gaming machine. But you're no longer able to play the Xbox 360 games on your XB1. Although some 360 games will be available on the Live Marketplace, but then you'd have to buy them a second time. The same goes for the PS4.

True but I think we've all been well aware that neither the XB1 or PS4 would be backwards compatible this gen. It sucks but it just means I'm going to keep my 360 and PS3 hooked up.



It is also used to check on what machine you're playing. As I mentioned above, and as several others probably have mentioned as well, you are only allowed to play for a single hour if you're not playing on that one console to which your account is connected. That is no longer just checking whether you own the game or not, it is restricting how you enjoy playing. For example, I often get together with friends and play for hours at a time. Quite often the game does not belong in the home we're at, but we can still play it for as long as we like. With XB1, we'd only be able to play for a single hour, before I'd have to get home and make sure my XB1 gets reauthenticated.

I already covered that above but once again you are preaching to the choir. I don't like any of the XB1's restrictions but two of them(online connection and Kinect) I could live with. The used game restrictions is the one that negatively affects me the most.



Anyway, I hope you see my points by now. If not, then I don't see how else I can make you understand them. In any case, this will be my last post in reply to you on these matters because I'm simply not cut out for long discussions - it's simply a bit taxing on me. Cheers! :)

Yup I understood your points and appreciated both your point of view and insight. Cheers mate:)