Official Super Retro Trio Review & Preorder Thread

[Old_Skool_Fool]

Hey classic gurus, it's been a bit since I posted, but it's been pretty hectic for me since I am now a dad. (Fatherhood is pretty crazy), but as any new Dad I want to share the finer things in life with my kid, starting with Looney Tunes vintage cartoons and Classic Games! So to kick it off, there's nothing better than a all in one classic system like the soon to be released Super Retro Trio console (http://www.dascheap.com/super-retro-trio-3-in1-game-system.html) by Retrobit.


I am going to give you guys a first real (non rendered image) look at this crazy soon to be staple console. Also as you know I cover all the reviews for most popular vintage products, and will be attending E3 as well next week to showcase other cool vintage gaming stuffs!


Also on a side note, if you guys preorder now, the unit will Ship Free for all continental US gamers.

[Old_Skool_Fool]

Ok, hopefully these aren't too big or they resize, but here is a front facing image of the Super Retro Trio.6753

[Old_Skool_Fool]

For the record, these are some nice units. When I picked it up, it felt weighted (so it had substance) and another thing to notice is that it has that now very popular sexy Matte Black finish.


Here's another image of the very clean front controller ports.


6754

[Old_Skool_Fool]

So this sexy beast of a remake comes with 2 controllers (almost identical to the Retro Duo's (http://www.dascheap.com/retroduo-console-snes-nes-dual-2in1-system-clone-red-black-r.html) pads but a slight different color) and the nice thing about this is that it's door hides all those ports. A nice push/lock door that keep the insane amount of controller options hidden to most.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Hey congratulations on your child. Wish you all the best.


I've been very intrigued by the Super Retro Trio since RetroBit announced it a month or so ago.

It seems initially odd that RetroBit would choose yet another reverse engineered hardware clone when Hyperkin is going the emulation route, but I've been very satisfied with RetroBit's previous clones such as the RetroDuo Portable and RetroDuo proper. I'd love to get my hands on this and give it a rigerious testing. RetroBit's recent past has been very good, with the exception of the NES RetroPort, since it's just a western localized version of the rather underwhelming FC Adapter sold in Japan and southeast Asia.

Then again, you can't really blame RetroBit for that since the FC Adapter was only licensed by RetroBit, not developed by RetroBit. It's kinda like blaming Nintendo for how bad Deadly Towers on NES is.

I'm especially interested in the performance of the NES side. Has RetroBit manages to produce another great NOAC?

Based on the photos, I like the overall design of the shell. Putting all of the controller ports up front is a wise design decision and further amplifies the strangeness of Hyperkin's Retorn3 design.

Can you post some more photos? I'd like to see it from directly above, and from the back.

[Old_Skool_Fool]

The unit has the S-Video out capability again, but I'm not expecting much since old games never look good on high-rez TVs with Svideo out.

Also, there is the adapter for the GBA stuff, but I was not able to see that currently, though I will be able to showcase it at E3 so stay tuned for that.

[Old_Skool_Fool]

Hey congratulations on your child. Wish you all the best.


I've been very intrigued by the Super Retro Trio since RetroBit announced it a month or so ago.

It seems initially odd that RetroBit would choose yet another reverse engineered hardware clone when Hyperkin is going the emulation route, but I've been very satisfied with RetroBit's previous clones such as the RetroDuo Portable and RetroDuo proper. I'd love to get my hands on this and give it a rigerious testing. RetroBit's recent past has been very good, with the exception of the NES RetroPort, since it's just a western localized version of the rather underwhelming FC Adapter sold in Japan and southeast Asia.

Then again, you can't really blame RetroBit for that since the FC Adapter was only licensed by RetroBit, not developed by RetroBit. It's kinda like blaming Nintendo for how bad Deadly Towers on NES is.

I'm especially interested in the performance of the NES side. Has RetroBit manages to produce another great NOAC?

Based on the photos, I like the overall design of the shell. Putting all of the controller ports up front is a wise design decision and further amplifies the strangeness of Hyperkin's Retorn3 design.

Can you post some more photos? I'd like to see it from directly above, and from the back.


Hey thanks..he's like a "New School Fool"!!..lol

I actually accidentally deleted the back of the unit photos, but I'll get more Mon/Tues. The back is just clean and simple. Nothing really there. Even the region switches are on the front as you can see.

As for the RetronN, after speaking with some of the higher ups at Retrobit, I was told that this is not a unit for comparison to the Retron5. That this is basically an answer to the issues with the Retron3.

If you see my review on the original Retron3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asksCvYRva8

You'll notice that it's quite a weird design, not to mention the CONTROLLERS WERE AWFUL! They were badly designed, barely worked from a foot away and overall made me angry that they were even included. I would have rather have had NO Controllers as opposed to even wasting my time with the ones that are included. From what I hear, the new one will also include that IR nonsense, which makes no sense to me

The controllers with this unit are solid, the same as the Retro Duo's but feels a little more dense.


I am pretty excited to use the GBA games on this unit, as honestly was a bigger GBA fan than most.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

yeah, composite and S-video. For these systems, that's fine and dandy for a good majority of its target audience that would choose a CRT over an HDTV anyway.

About the GBA adapter, when you go to e3 please make a point to ask the RetroBit representative if that device will also play original GameBoy and GameBoy Color titles as well as GBA, or if it's only GBA. RetroBit's been strangely tight lipped about this in their press releases thus far, whereas Hyperkin said GB, GBC and GBA compatibility would be there right out of the gate when they first showed off the Retron5 at PAX.

[MarioMania]

Why is the NES Controller Port on the side??

Because of this, Can't hook up the NES Four Score to it

Test out Castlevania 3 (NES) and Virtua Racing (Genesis)

[Satoshi_Matrix]

It's a good point, but it's something that only the hardcore NES gamer would even notice, and probably not important enough for Retrobit to consider when trying to make the front of the case as small as possible.

This problem could be addressed with an NES extension cable (or two if you want two or four player support) but it is a minor inconvenience, yes.

[Ace]

So this sexy beast of a remake comes with 2 controllers (almost identical to the Retro Duo's (http://www.dascheap.com/retroduo-console-snes-nes-dual-2in1-system-clone-red-black-r.html) pads but a slight different color)

Are these controllers wired or wireless, and if they're wireless, do they use RF or infrared? I don't actually see an infrared window, so if they're wireless, I'm inclined to say they work via RF. Hopefully, if that's the case, they're better than the wireless Super NES controllers RetroBit sells as those, from what I've seen, are pretty bad.

[Cryog]

Inex Super Retro Trio at E3 - E3 Expo 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=y0HAsi38SpA

[Cryog]

Super Retro Trio First Look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-oX8odh-oE

[Ace]

I'm already liking what I see. There's one thing the Super Retro Trio already has over the RetroN3 and FC3 Plus, which is an NOAC that does not have reversed duty cycles. I couldn't hear the DPCM from Mike Tyson's PUNCH-OUT!! very well, but I wouldn't be surprised if the DPCM is completely messed up as has always been the case with NOACs that get the duty cycles right.

The Genesis audio sounds pretty damn good too. Volume levels may be a bit off between the YM3438 and SN76489 sound chips, but coming from off-screen footage, that may be misleading and the volume levels might actually be correct. It sounds better than the RetroN3, I'll give it that, but I'd like to see how it compares to the FC3 Plus as both the FC3 Plus Version 1 and FC3 Plus Version 2 have some pretty good Genesis audio (slight edge to the FC3 Plus Version 2 as it doesn't get as distorted as it does on the FC3 Plus Version 1 due to the FC3 Plus Version 1 having heavier bass than the FC3 Plus Version 2).

My big concern here is if RetroBit is going to cheat like Yobo Gameware did with the FC3 Plus by having the Genesis and Super NES sides output audio in dual Mono. That's gonna be lame and cause garbled sound in bass-heavy games on the Super NES side. Cheating with those systems seems to be pretty rampant since the FC3 Plus as since then, the FC16 Go, the RetroN2, *possibly* the SupaBoy and the RetroBit Gen-X all have dual Mono audio when the original hardware outputs Stereo sound. If this is a RetroDuo and Gen-X put together, though, I'd be pretty happy with that. RetroDuo NOAC, RetroDuo Super NES 3-chip clone chipset and the Gen-X's (also RetroGen Adapter's) TCT-6801 GOAC are quite good except the TCT-6801 seems to hate Virtua Racing as it seems practically impossible to get Virtua Racing to work on that chipset. For all we know, though, RetroBit might surprise us with better GOAC chipsets like the TCT6035 in the FC3 Plus Version 2 (this is one of the best GOACs I've ever come across), the TecToy-580G in the Innex Gen-X and the GN Twin (this GOAC is supposed to have everything needed to make a 100%-compatible Geniclone) or even the most complete of all GOACs from what I've personally seen, the SM801-A1. If the SM801-A1 is in the Super Retro Trio, I'm gonna mod mine so it can output RGB and in turn work with the Sega 32X. It's possible.

I've rambled on for a good bit, but this already looks to be better than what Hyperkin and Yobo Gameware have to offer right now. When is the Super Retro Trio scheduled for release?

[Satoshi_Matrix]

According to the representative, it will be released sometime in July. So around a month from now sounds like.

That video is helpful, and I'm excited for it. S-Video NES? I wonder if it's just passthrough composite like the RetroDuo, but it sure looked good on the tv they had there. So who knows, maybe RetroBit figured out a way to not get all the interference the RetroDuo has.

I share many of ace's concerns and also wonder about NTSC-J support for MegaDrive games. An NTSC/PAL switch is one thing, but what about Japanese MegaDrive games?

I'm also pretty excited about GB/GBC support as well as GBA. I suppose it remains to be seen how well that actually works, but if it's not awful with bad colors or audio, that's a reason to buy one right there....though Retrobit will probably sell it separately it sounds.

[NipRing]

I have not posted here in years, but this is something I'm interested in. I sold off my collection years ago. But i still enjoy 8/16 bit games via emus and I thought buying this console and using a flash cart from each system would be the way to go. The one thing thats keeping me on the fence is that I'm so used to modern wireless controllers, the thought of cords stretching across my living room floor is just not appealing. If there was built in bluetooth or the 2.4ghz that the NEX used for wireless, I'd jump right in. Any chance of that happening?

[MaxWar]

As a canadian, what would be the best place to order/preorder the Retro Trio/GBA adapter?

[stardust4ever]

Time to give this thread a bump. My Super Retro Trio is in the mails as I type this. I plan on doing unboxing and review videos.

[ViNGaDoRjr]

Time to give this thread a bump. My Super Retro Trio is in the mails as I type this. I plan on doing unboxing and review videos.

Please... post for us the quality of the NES games played through S-Video. It will be pointless to buy one if the quality is bad or if the company is using composite passthrough again. Thanks!

[SavagePencil]

I'm less interested in the video quality (although that will be nice) and more interested in the audio quality. Both Top Gear and UN Squadron have sounded like garbage with previous clone systems.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

For the record, Retro-Bit has gotten back to me and have mailed me my review unit. Full indepth review and engineering corrections in the forthcoming days. Next week should be exciting as I example this clone. I predict this will be another engineering oddity just like the Gen-X.


Please... post for us the quality of the NES games played through S-Video. It will be pointless to buy one if the quality is bad or if the company is using composite passthrough again. Thanks!

You obviously don't understand the engineering of Famiclones if that's something you're hoping for, so let me explain. In 1983, Nintendo commissioned chip producer Ricoh to produce many of the microprocessors used in their newest product, the Family Computer (NES). The Ricoh engineered PPU for this machine was called the RP2C02. It was capable of rendering 60Hz NTSC video through standard RF and even cleaner composite video, a brand new format at the time.

The Nintendo Famicom [NES] was first reverse engineered around 1989, using discrete clones of each chip, including the Ricoh RP2C02. This clone of the PPU had defects in it, often rendering incorrect pallets and that sort of thing. Over time, the RP2C02 clones would improve and gradually, these discrete hardware clones were replaced by much cheaper and smaller integrated glop-top circuits commonly called NOACs - Nintendo-On-A-Chip. So it has been for over 20 years now.

During the mid half of the 80's, Nintendo's games became very popular and so the company also branched out into arcades, using their same Famicom hardware. However, arcade monitors were at the time typically RGB based and could not use the RP2C02. Ricoh specifically engineered a new PPU for this purpose called the RC2C03B, which was only capable of RGB with a modified pallet.

Since NOACs were of course marketed for the home, at no point did they ever integrate the RC2C03B into their design. Since all NOACs are based on the original hardware and thus the RP2C02, they are capable of RF, and Composite. It is not possible for a NOAC to produce RGB, S-Video, or any other video format besides RF and Composite. Retro-Bit and other clone makers can funnel a composite video feed through the luminance signal so you don't get a black screen, but S-Video support is something that will never happen on a Famiclone unless someone was to produce a custom NOAC from scratch, and that's not exactly high on anyone's priorities.

Still, when I get my system from Retro-Bit, I of course will try this, but I suspect that it'll be the same composite passthrough with S-Video as the Retro-Duo. I predict the same with the SRA and the RetroGen.

[stardust4ever]

I'm less interested in the video quality (although that will be nice) and more interested in the audio quality. Both Top Gear and UN Squadron have sounded like garbage with previous clone systems.I was originally planning on doing my video review with a CRT (no S-video jack sorry), but...

My 2006 Sanyo HDTV has S-video jack. Unfortunately, the TV disables composite whenever something is plugged into the S-video jack regarless of whether signal is present or not, however this is beneficial for review purposes. I can just unplug/ replug the S-video jack without changing the input settings hot-swapping S-video and composite on the fly, and any changes reflected on the screen, for better or worse, will be duly noted. As Satoshi has elaborately explained, don't expect miracles to happen.

[stardust4ever]

I beat you Satoshi. :ass: Youtube video is currently uploading. DSL is slow as crap, sans any errors, my unboxing and Super Mario / Duck Hunt playtest video will be live in a few hours.

Came with a couple awesome retro stickers, and the duty cycles are not messed up!
:band:

Video link (pending successful upload):
http://youtu.be/Ll3LSMe1yUU

[stardust4ever]

Still, when I get my system from Retro-Bit, I of course will try this, but I suspect that it'll be the same composite passthrough with S-Video as the Retro-Duo. I predict the same with the SRA and the RetroGen.Satoshi, I think you are right. I have tested the Retrobit a little this morning and I have come to the conclusion that the stock S-Video cable that comes with the system is crap. On NES, the picture is flawless through the A/V on my HDTV, but when I plug the S-Video cable, the screen gets grainy with diagonal jailbars and a small amount of static. Obviously, the S-video cable is a very thin unshielded wire, so I replaced it with a known good premium shielded S-video cable.

Here's the real kicker: with the shielded S-Video cable, the reception gets even worse! More static, NTSC colors barely show up, and worse diagonal jailbarring. Genesis is not as bad, vertical jailbars using the stock S-video cable. Jailbars are even more pronounced using said premium S-video cable. Genesis audio is definitely cleaner than the A/V multi-out or RF output on my stock VA7 Model 1, but this revision in particular is known to have grungy sounding audio. Both NES and Genesis are bright and vibrant with no static or jailbars when using the regular A/V. SNES displays flawlessly through either cable.

But shy the bloody hell is the NES S-Video actually worse viewed through a premium shielded S-video cable than using the stock POS cable? I'll have to get a video of the craptastic effect later.

Also I tested the drum synth on the NES using track 7 (Money) of my MOON8 cart by Brad Smith (8-bit Pink Floyd DSOTM tribute). The sampled cash register sounds a little muted and doesn't ring right compared to the real NES or A/V Famicom. All in all, the slightly off samples aren't nearly as bad a deal breaker as the swapped duty cycles that plagued clone systems for years. Bass is definitely audible when played back on HiFi speakers, comparable to my NES and stronger than the A/V Famicom.

One more thing to add, Stereo separation is flawless on both the SNES and the Genesis. NES is dual mono, as it should be.

EDIT: Sorry for the triple post...:oops:

[SavagePencil]

Thanks for uploading the video. Do you have any recordings of audio for SNES?

Also: does anyone know where you can get the Trio + GBA adapter bundle, that was allegedly going to be cheaper?

Does the adapter require a separate set of RCA cables to run to the TV, or is it integrated into the video out?

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Thanks for uploading the video. Do you have any recordings of audio for SNES?

Also: does anyone know where you can get the Trio + GBA adapter bundle, that was allegedly going to be cheaper?

Does the adapter require a separate set of RCA cables to run to the TV, or is it integrated into the video out?

Hang on a few days. Once I get mine, I'm going to record a review and stress test of dozens of games.

The Super Advance Adapter does require it's own AV feed, but there's a chance it might passthrough the composite leads on the back. I'll confirm when I can.

[stardust4ever]

Thanks for uploading the video. Do you have any recordings of audio for SNES?

Also: does anyone know where you can get the Trio + GBA adapter bundle, that was allegedly going to be cheaper?

Does the adapter require a separate set of RCA cables to run to the TV, or is it integrated into the video out?

I'm going to be conducting audio/video tests for SNES and Genesis later. Right now, there are glaring issues with the NES controller port that need to be addressed.

Upload complete.......
http://youtu.be/VZdUgfTOHvQ

Sattoshi, I also did some continuity tests with the Retrobit clone. P1 D3 and D4 are not connected at all. Unless you're a huge fan of playing Chiller with dual lightguns, or select hombrews, this shouldn't matter as no other commercial game ever used those inputs. Famicom doesn't use these inputs either. P2 D3 and D4 bypass strait through to the clone board, which explains why the Zapper works perfectly. D0 channel appears to go through some type of switching apparatus. I have not confirmed this yet, but I believe the Gen / NES-SNES switch uses a logic converter to translate the signal when in Gen mode, and apparently uses logic to pass signal from the stock controllers for NES/SNES when not in Gen mode. NES ports cannot be used to play SNES games and SNES ports cannot be used to play NES, despite using nearly identical protocols. Something is getting messed up in translation between getting the signal from the NES P1 controller port (D0) to the clone board, because my NES controller is not behaving properly at all. The P1 port appears to be very loose, and the controller ports are glued into the Retro Trio housing preventing me from completely removing the PCB for more thorough troubleshooting.

[stardust4ever]

EPIC BUMP!

Got a video uploading to YT right now. I stuff three Everdrives into the Super Retro Trio, and they all work!

I hooked up the Famicom Everdrive through a Gyromite Adapter, and I got Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse running on it!!!:dance:

Link will be updated when the video is live...
http://youtu.be/Lud4z0_NYFM

[Leo_A]

The Super Advance Adapter does require it's own AV feed, but there's a chance it might passthrough the composite leads on the back. I'll confirm when I can.

You've said before that it does.

http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/?p=4895&preview=true


As is, the included cable is required when using an actual Super Nintendo or Super Famicom. However, this is only true of the original Nintendo hardware and older, non Retro-Bit clone consoles. Newer Retro-Bit clones such as the Retro Duo Portable and the upcoming Super Retro Trio will pass the video feed directly to it’s own video output jacks without the need of the additional cable.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yes, the Super Retro Advance plays on the Super Retro Trio through composite passthrough without the need for the cable. Not S-Video though. For the record, this also works with the standalone RetroPort and RetroGen adapters, although it's kind of redundant to use those.

Full in depth multipart review coming this weekend.

[stardust4ever]

Yes, the Super Retro Advance plays on the Super Retro Trio through composite passthrough without the need for the cable. Not S-Video though. For the record, this also works with the standalone RetroPort and RetroGen adapters, although it's kind of redundant to use those.

Full in depth multipart review coming this weekend.
Satoshi, you may want to check this out. Not all Super Retro Trios are equal. My first unit came with a defective NES port. I posted a video about it, and was contacted by a Retrobit representative. They send me a replacement console. Good news, the NES ports work. Bad news, the NOAC is inferior design. Have a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbMB0yJ4EQ

Sadly, I have to keep my promise to the Retrobit rep to box up and return the unit with "good" audio but defective NES ports. Such a waste... :puppydogeyes:

[Rickstilwell1]

Satoshi, you may want to check this out. Not all Super Retro Trios are equal. My first unit came with a defective NES port. I posted a video about it, and was contacted by a Retrobit representative. They send me a replacement console. Good news, the NES ports work. Bad news, the NOAC is inferior design. Have a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbMB0yJ4EQ

Sadly, I have to keep my promise to the Retrobit rep to box up and return the unit with "good" audio but defective NES ports. Such a waste... :puppydogeyes:

You should complain about the weaker audio and have them send you one with both problems fixed and send both back. lol

[stardust4ever]

You should complain about the weaker audio and have them send you one with both problems fixed and send both back. lol
Ugg. It's not bad that the second console isn't perfect. Had it been my first console, I'd of been happy with it. Truth is, the rest of the games still sound fine on the second Trio clone. Just the fact that I have to send back the one with a superior NOAC; it feels like such a downgrade...
:sob:

[Tanooki]

That's because it is one. Shame you can't chop shop the parts together to get the system you want.

All this is in the end is a huge buyer beware warning to anyone wanting one that no two systems are alike and it could just be a hot turd in a box until you get one that works and that's a hassle.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

stardust, how very interesting that you can apparently play MMC5 games properly on your 'defective' console. That makes no sense to me.

Please take some detailed photos of the NES daughterboard top and bottom. It's important I can read the surface mount chips so it would be best if you could take them from multiple angles.

[stardust4ever]

stardust, how very interesting that you can apparently play MMC5 games properly on your 'defective' console. That makes no sense to me.

Please take some detailed photos of the NES daughterboard top and bottom. It's important I can read the surface mount chips so it would be best if you could take them from multiple angles.Satoshi, did you see the second half of that video where the MMC5 audio is messed up on the second unit?

It's just a "glop top" on the bottom of the NES daughter board like all the other NES clones. For the record, I don't actually own Castlevania III; I played it off the Everdrive, so there's still a chance the real cartrige may or may not work. The first unit with messed up controller ports had clean MMC5 audio; the replacement unit had messed up audio when playing the game. It sounded fine on the other games I've tested. Sadly, I am sending the first one (with good audio) back to Retrobit today.

I'm just throwing this out there, because if some reviewer reviews a clone system and says "game X works" or "the audio is nearly perfect", then a customer goes out and buys the console based on what a reviewer said, they may not have the exact same experience. Now having first hand experience with two Super Retro Trio clones that are not identical, I mention this fact at the end of my review of the replacement Super retro Trio unit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn8IVxdqvNY

[MaxWar]

Yes, the Super Retro Advance plays on the Super Retro Trio through composite passthrough without the need for the cable. Not S-Video though. For the record, this also works with the standalone RetroPort and RetroGen adapters, although it's kind of redundant to use those.

Full in depth multipart review coming this weekend.

I think the Super Retro Advance is exactly the same thing as the AD adapter. And it is incapable of outputing anything else than composite. This being said it has very good composite and awesome scaling. It is better than the official GameCubeGB player. I am curious how the SRA sounds out of the box on the retro trio, as the AD adapter sounded like shit and required extensive modding to fix.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?48386-Sound-fixes-for-the-Tototek-GBA-SNES-AD-Adapter

[stardust4ever]

stardust, how very interesting that you can apparently play MMC5 games properly on your 'defective' console. That makes no sense to me.

Please take some detailed photos of the NES daughterboard top and bottom. It's important I can read the surface mount chips so it would be best if you could take them from multiple angles.
Satoshi, the first unit has been mailed back to Retrobit/Innex. The new unit I'm stuck with now fails hard at playing the MC5 audio, as previously demonstrated. There may be other differences which sadly I cannot document. When you get yours, load Castlevania III on the Everdrive as well as the actual cartrige. I want to know if your MMC5 audio is messed up, like my second unit, or plays cleanly like the first. I don't have an original cart for Castlevania III, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the real cart doesn't work but Everdrive + CVIII ROM does.

Also, feel free to tear down your system and scan the chips if you want. If it's anything like the unit I recieved from DasCheap, you may find it difficult to do a full teardown and completely remove the PCB without breaking the unit. There are screws that hold the front panel to the bottom panel. Some of those screws are masked by the Genesis daughter board. The Genesis daughter board has the controller sockets soldered to it, and those same controller sockets are glued to the front panel. Your best bet for a complete teardown is to use a hobby knife to sever the glue that bonds the controller ports to the front panel. Slide the knife into the front panel along the edges of all six controller ports to sever the glue seams. Once the glue is severed, it should be possible to completely remove the PCB. Then you can document all the chips, measure traces with a continuity tester, etc...

Also the NES daughterboard has a "glop top" NOAC on the underside, so there are no part numbers on it. What you get under the "glop top" is what you are stuck with.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah yeah, forget about it. I ran my own tests and contacts and found the info I was seeking. Don't mean to sound rude but all that you just said was a pile of nothing useful. I've already dismantled and examined what I needed and am using that analysis towards my full review.

[stardust4ever]

Don't mean to sound rude but all that you just said was a pile of nothing useful."nothing useful" ???
Oh boo-hoo...

Still looking forward to your review. I'm not experienced doing this sort of thing. *_*

Please, by all means do the Everdrive / Castlevania III test. I wanna know if the Trio you got has good or crappy MMC5 audio.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Oh yeah. I guess I should share with you guys.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Once this thread rolls over to page 3, I'll start posting the full review.

[stardust4ever]

Once this thread rolls over to page 3, I'll start posting the full review.Satoshi, I saw your Genesis video. Pity I have to mod the system to get the Virtua Racing to work. I need to ask, I noticed you had SMS games on your Everdrive MD. Do they work? You did not test them in your video. Also does SMS require the cartirdge port jumper mod? I should be getting a Power Base Mini Converter but it's blocked up in my Retron5 preorder. Be cool if it worked. Even the official Genesis 3 couldn't do that.

And how the heck did you dismantle the system? The unit I got from DAScheap (which I later had to return) had the controller ports glued down so I couldn't remove the PCB.
:help:

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Satoshi, I saw your Genesis video. Pity I have to mod the system to get the Virtua Racing to work. I need to ask, I noticed you had SMS games on your Everdrive MD. Do they work? You did not test them in your video. Also does SMS require the cartirdge port jumper mod? I should be getting a Power Base Mini Converter but it's blocked up in my Retron5 preorder. Be cool if it worked. Even the official Genesis 3 couldn't do that.

And how the heck did you dismantle the system? The unit I got from DAScheap (which I later had to return) had the controller ports glued down so I couldn't remove the PCB.
:help:

But the mod is as basic as it can possibly get: solder one wire along two pins. Even the RetroDuo audio dampener is more complicated.

Yes, SMS games do work via the Mega EverDrive on the Super Retro Trio (and so do real SMS games via a pin adapter without any need to mess with anything, but you get slight graphical glitches on TCT-6801 based GOACs due to VDP glitches that interact with the overscan field. You'll get things like black bars and sprite anomalies that don't effect gameplay.

But even if there were no glitches at all, the Genesis hardware can only run most SMS games, can't run the YM2413, and also, I feel weird using a Genesis controller when playing SMS games. I'm much happier using a real SMS instead.

Keep in mind the Power base Mini isn't really anything special - all it is is a pin adapter. It doesn't actually contain any SMS hardware or anything. It's up to the Genesis to do that.

[stardust4ever]

But the mod is as basic as it can possibly get: solder one wire along two pins. Even the RetroDuo audio dampener is more complicated.Believe me, if can I design my own controller schematics, I can solder two pins together with a wire no problem. I'm not that dense. The said pins are on the underside of the PCB but the problem is getting the PCB out of the Super Retro Trio with the controller ports glued down. I haven't opened my second unit yet, but if it's built like the one I recieved from DasCheap, the controller ports will be glued to the front panel.

I'm taking a brake from this video review crap. When I do it, I tend to ramble too much without getting my point across, plus I'm tired, so I'll let my Super Retro Trio sit for a few days. Satoshi, you do a much better job reviewing it anyway. I look forward to your NES and SNES videos.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

The said pins are on the underside of the PCB but the problem is getting the PCB out of the Super Retro Trio with the controller ports glued down.

What are you talking about? The SRT is pretty simple to get access to the pcbs. Unscrew, remove the lid, unscrew the SNES controller panel pcb, push back and lift up, then unscrew the NES board, the SNES board, and then the Genesis board. Lift out and place on a non static surface. I've done it several times now. There's nothing to it. No glue or anything, that's just to hold ribbon cables together.

[stardust4ever]

What are you talking about? The SRT is pretty simple to get access to the pcbs. Unscrew, remove the lid, unscrew the SNES controller panel pcb, push back and lift up, then unscrew the NES board, the SNES board, and then the Genesis board. Lift out and place on a non static surface. I've done it several times now. There's nothing to it. No glue or anything, that's just to hold ribbon cables together.The unit I received from DAS Cheap had the controller ports glued to the front panel. It sucked.

Screenshots from my second YouTube video, "NES Controller FAIL". The white goop all over the backs of the controller ports is glue of some sort. :shameful:
7469
7468

So far, I haven't opened the second unit yet. Hopefully it's like yours where you claim there's no "glue".

[Satoshi_Matrix]

huh. mine wasnt like that at all.

What even is that glue doing? It doesn't appear to be connect to the sockets but to the mounts. Even if there is glue present, that shouldn't effect removal of the pcbs as long as they they don't cover the screwholes.

[stardust4ever]

huh. mine wasnt like that at all.

What even is that glue doing? It doesn't appear to be connect to the sockets but to the mounts. Even if there is glue present, that shouldn't effect removal of the pcbs as long as they they don't cover the screwholes.The controller ports were soldered to the PCB and glued to the front panel. Some of the screws holding the front panel to the bottom of the chassis were blocked by the PCB, so it was impossible to remove the PCB without breaking something. I have a theory that the glue may have interfered with the controller port connection somehow, and may have been what caused the NES controller to go ape ****. Either way, something screwy about that unit I received from Das Cheap, despite the fact it had a better and slightly more compatible NOAC. either way, that particular Super Retro Trio shipped back to Retrobit a few days ago via Fed Ex.

I'm going to open my new Super Retro Trio when I get around to it; hopefully it will be like yours and I won't have trouble accessing the underbelly of the PCB to add that wire.

[stardust4ever]

Satoshi, why are you waiting for page 3? If you won't post it, somebody else will:

Originally posted in the Retron5 thread by mistake. Next reply will start page 3.


http://youtu.be/1XCZg7MzvcY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr5ILRAPy9M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibUlnIQWN1s

Because somebody needed to post it since Satoshi apparently hasn't.

Cool the Genesis side can be modded to add support for Virtua Racing.

Amazing that Retrobit actually put an NTSC CIC lockout clone into the SNES daughterboard. :o This allows the Super Retro Trio to play 100% of NTSC US and JAP games, including all of the SA-1 games, but disallows any PAL games from operating. So, the lockout adds compatibility for like 2% of NTSC/JP games to run but eliminates virtually all PAL games from being playable, as well as most bootlegs.

Given their emphasis on the region switch for the Genesis, it seems strange that Retrobit did not at least have a toggle switch to disable the NTSC CIC and allow most PAL games at least the opportunity to boot. They basically traded 2% of NTSC games for like 100% of PAL games. But I'm not complaining about the ability to play all SMRPG carts, as well as both Kirbys and a few imports, like Jikkyō Oshaberi Parodius, which I do own and tested working.

Still sucks for people in PAL land. Seems like somebody needs to mod this puppy for PAL support, LOLz... @_@:fist:

[Satoshi_Matrix]

No, the middle finger's at you. I do not appreciate you posting my content, especially after I told you what my plans were.

Anyway, finally at page 3. The NES part I've had the most trouble with, as sadly this NOAC and board configuration appears to be completely identical to Retro-Bit's RetroPort and not their superior Gen-X or even RetroDuo NOAC. I've had to work to fix a few problems, while others there's nothing I can do anything about to fix.

So here we go! Part 4 is now done.

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qMbtjUBeO8

[stardust4ever]

No, the middle finger's at you. I do not appreciate you posting my content, especially after I told you what my plans were.It's been posted on other forums already. In fact I copied the links from another members post on Atariage.

BTW, nice bra in the thumbnail! :p

I noticed you mention modding the console (like all clones) to get Castlevania III running. Ironically, it's not necessary to mod the console to run Castlevania III from an Everdrive. You should at least footnote that fact for people who may be interested in playing the game using a flashcart, as I demonstrated previously.

It's also worth noting that a single NPN transistor and two resistors can be substituted for an single inverter, if a 7404 chip isn't available on hand. They don't sell 7404s at Radio Shack, after all. For digital logic, a 100k resistor is connected between the input and the base, and a 10k resistor connected between VCC and the collector. Ground is connected to the emitter and output to the collector. When the voltage on the base is higher than the dropoff voltage (typically 0.6-0.8V for silicone) of the BE junction on the transistor, the transistor conducts and the output is pulled low. When the input voltage is below the 0.6-0.8v, the transistor inhibits any current and the output is held high by the resistor. It's generally desirable for digital switching applications to keep the input resistor no more than 10x larger than the output resistor. This ensures the transistor continues oprating in the hard saturation region (either "on" or "off") which is necessary for digital logic applications.

I'm also curious if the Castlevania III fix or the Virtua Racing fix break any existing games. Probably not, but it's always a distinct possibility that fixing one thing breaks something else. I plan on doing the Virtua Racing mod because I own that game. Also the NES composite brightness looks fine to me on both my HDTV and CRT, so no need to bridge the surface mount resistor unless you have display issues.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah there are several alternatives, but who the hell would shop at radio shack for electronics parts? Just go to an actual electronics store, or buy online. hex inverters aren't difficult to find.

and no, the fixes do not break other things. Why would you even think that.

and as for the composite being "fine", well, you're wrong. again.

the 750 R83 resister darkens the NES composite output considerably, and also alters the visible NES pallet. To see the difference without actually removing it, unscrew the lid off the srt and insert an NES game and turn it on. remove the composite input and press it against the right side of R83 and look at your tv. As long as you hold it steady, you'll see what the results would be if you removed that. Hold it to the left side for a direct comparison.

I really am growing tired of your idiotic questions and statements. if you don't know what you're talking about, then don't say anything at all. I'm sorry, but my patience with you really has about run out.

[stardust4ever]

Yeah there are several alternatives, but who the hell would shop at radio shack for electronics parts? Just go to an actual electronics store, or buy online. hex inverters aren't difficult to find.

I really am growing tired of your idiotic questions and statements. if you don't know what you're talking about, then don't say anything at all. I'm sorry, but my patience with you really has about run out.Satoshi, not everyone has an electronics parts store in town. We used to have a place called Southern Electronics in my hometown, but it's out of business. Websites like Mouser, Jameco, Parts Express, and others exist, but it can be a pain to use them. So what if a 7404 is 30 cents at Jameco? I'd have to pay a $5 surcharge for orders below $10, pay $3-something s/h, then wait 3 days for the package to arrive. Options are even more severely limited I assume for Canadians such as yourself. But they're among the few suppliers that don't have minimum orders of say 1000 units, which is useless for hobbiests. Radio Shack is in everyone's back yard, and yes they do have a parts bin selling overpriced components in little baggies, as well as connectors, wire, solder, tools, and other supplies. It's hella more convienient to the hobbiest to drive around the block and pick up parts they can use, than to butcher old electronics or place an order, pay shipping and processing fees, and wait 3-4 days for their parts baggie to arrive. I read in another forum someone attempting to do some hobby mod that needed a spare 7404, so the pulled it from a perfectly functional spare NES they had laying around. I almost wanted to cry for the unneeded death of that poor NES...

As for the personal attacks, lets tone it down a notch. I too am growing tired of the endless arguements and debates, so let's just agree to disagree. But I do not appreciate your logging into AtariAge just to insult my name. Take a look at the last page or so of this thread. It's a train wreck, and we're both equally responsible for it. So if I agree to lay off the personal attacks, I expect you to do the same. Truce? Other wise, we're just :deadhorse:

[Satoshi_Matrix]

The fifth and final video in my Super Retro Trio coverage is now up.

Find out what my overall thoughts on this latest clone from Retro-Bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZHXIGETSDU

[stardust4ever]

The fifth and final video in my Super Retro Trio coverage is now up.

Find out what my overall thoughts on this latest clone from Retro-Bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZHXIGETSDUThumbs up on the Master System. I'll be getting use out of that when my Power Base Mini Converter comes (it's currently bundled with my Retron5 preorder).

Look forward to more dualing reviews when Retron5 comes out! :popcorn:

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I've been contemplating buying a Power Base Converter, but once you hear SMS games through a YM2413 FM synthesizer, you'll never want to listen to them again through PSG, which is all the Genesis hardware is capable of. Much better off with an actual Master System modded than the Genesis with a pin adapter.

RetroN5 will be a pain. Overview, NES/Famicom, SNES/SFC, Genesis/MD/SMS, GB/GBC/GBA, and final thoughts. And that's if I don't decide that GBA should be its own video, which for time may happen.

Also, I'm kinda concerned I've have a lot less to say. Emulation is a totally different beast to hardware clones. The emulation on the Ouya is great, but it's a whole lot less interesting than NOACs, GOACs, SNESOCs, etc.

[stardust4ever]

I've been contemplating buying a Power Base Converter, but once you hear SMS games through a YM2413 FM synthesizer, you'll never want to listen to them again through PSG, which is all the Genesis hardware is capable of. Much better off with an actual Master System modded than the Genesis with a pin adapter.Didn't only Japamese Mark III games use the FM synthesis chip, kinda like NES didn't get expansion audio? And like Famicom, Mark III games have a different pinout. I'm not enough into SMS to buy a stand alone console that I'll barely use, but if US/EU games play on an unmodded Genesis 1 without issue the same as they would on an unmodded SMS, then I'll just stick to Genesis with an adapter. Power Base Mini looks a lot cleaner and cheaper than the rare and bulky Power Base Converters.

Then again, I finally got an AV Famicom because I was sick of dealing with fugly adapters in my Toaster, not to mention the occasional oddly shaped carts that didn't fit, forcing me to use the old Yobo clone with swapped duty cycles. :p I already had a nice collection of Fami carts before I ever got it though.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Didn't only Japamese Mark III games use the FM synthesis chip, kinda like NES didn't get expansion audio? And like Famicom, Mark III games have a different pinout.

Yes, but the majority of these games retain their FM functionality through to the Master System and will run with FM sound if it's available (modded in). Essentially they two sets of soundtracks - one PSG only, the other FM.

In addition, there's a bunch of western developed Master System games that also support the chip even though the western Master System never officially got the YM2413.

Mark III games do have a different pinout yes and require an adapter if you want to run them on a North American or European Master System or run North American or European games on a Japanese Mark III.

The Genesis does not use the Ym2413 and cannot be modded to run it as it would interfere with it's own FM sound chip which is the successor and better, but can't produce the same sounds, and therefore can only do the PSG crap.

If you're casual into Master System, the MegaDrive is fine, but just know you're getting an inferior experience doing it that way.

[MaxWar]

I just bought one of those SRT. Sadly I also have one that have glitchy NES/famicom audio. ACE made a small list of games that have the audio glitch, those are only from the games he tried. Maybe it can help people test for the glitch.

The NOAC is hit-or-miss as some Super Retro Trios don't have NOACs that hit false notes (we're not talking reversed duty cycles here, we're talking outright incorrect notes).

So here's the list:

-Contra (very rare, but it can happen)
-The Hunt for Red October
-Snake's Revenge
-Top Gun (may hit random false notes)
-Side Pocket (this game hits false notes almost non-stop)
-Image Fight (randomly spews out false notes after an armored ship is hit)
-Castlevania II
-Vindicators (emits false notes while shooting)
-Galaxy 5000 (random false notes during races)
-Gradius II
-Castlevania III (although the game is unplayable, the sound test is still functional and A LOT of false notes are hit here)
-Akumajou Densetsu (this one is playable and while the VRC6 is inaudible due to the lack of expansion audio mixing, you can clearly tell the 2A03 clone is hitting many incorrect notes)
-Rad Racer II (the game itself has SEVERE graphical errors but is playable, and yes, it hits false notes at times)

[Satoshi_Matrix]

haha,

actually, the particular SRT Ace is using is mine. I lent it to him so he could conduct tests and do some mods.

A lot of the findings were mine as I have a significantly larger NES library than he does. but hey, I'm not after the credit, just the facts.

[Tanooki]

Seems to me people choosing this over the Retron5 probably need to re-evaluate their standards as that list of games failing to work right is pretty bad given the games.

[MaxWar]

Seems to me people choosing this over the Retron5 probably need to re-evaluate their standards as that list of games failing to work right is pretty bad given the games.

The Retron5 does not interest me. Id rather have fun messing around with old school clone hardware than with an Android based emulator and cart ripper in one. Also, retron5 wont work with my CRT TV.

Back to the SRT, here is my own personal and concise review after an hour trying games with the unit.

SNES: The Super nes part seems very good. Both audio and video is excellent. Vibrant colors and sharp s-video. I am also really looking forward to playing some SNES games with a genesis 6 button pad. :D
Also, I just found myself a Not too expensive Super retro Advance. Ordered online. I will finally be able to compare it with the AD adapter.

Genesis: I am a bit disappointed by the genesis side excessive s-video jailbar and loud DAC noise on the audio. The jailbar problem can probably be improved with modding but not sure with the DAC noise. It is the same DAC noise that you get on the real Genesis but very loud, it is up there with the worst revisions like VA7 and early model 2.

NES: The NES part has a pretty good composite picture. It seems a bit blurrier than on a real NES, unless I imagine things, but this might help softening out those damn shimmering pixel composite artifact that I totally abhor. Main problem is definitely that sound glitch. While the sound is decent enough when not glitching, it totally kills the fun when it appears. I wish we had numbers on how many of the units have the glitch vs. dont. But my feeling currently is that most units have it.

[stardust4ever]

A little update. First, I have cancelled my Retron5 preorder because I got tired of Hyperkin's BS.

Second, I have a Powerbase Mini on the way from Stone Age Gamer, so I'll be testing it later with the Trio.

Third, I found a problem with my Super Retro Trio yesterday when my friend came over. He wanted to play Turtles III, and when I plugged in the Player 2 controller in NES mode, it didn't respond correctly. The only button on the player 2 controller that yields a response is the A button, which acts like everything is pressed at once. So basically it's the same controller defect I had on the first unit, but this time on the player 2 side. Zapper still works fine since the D3 and D4 inputs bypass strait to the NOAC board, but now I have to use the Trio or a Genesis controller for NES if I want two players. Sigh...

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I should also warn people of a finding me and ace came to.

Use the SNES side sparingly as it has a severe design oversight that we're both almost certain will result in serious consequences after prolonged use:

The Super NES side of the SRT has two surface mounted RAM chips at U2 and U7 that are KM68U1000Cs. These RAM chips carry a voltage range of 2.7~3.3V. Problem is, the SRT is designed to work with a regulated 5V power supply. Given that these RAM chips are only designed to handle up to a maximum 3.3V, this kind of over-voltage will severely reduce the life of the RAM to an estimated 1000 hours or less. Once that happens the Super Nintendo side will not function at all, and there is no way to fix this short of replacing the RAM.

The existing RAM needs to be replaced with 5V compliant KM681000s.

I've already contacted my Retro-Bit rep directly about this and they'll be fixing this in the future, but revisions of this nature could take 6-8 months before they happen.

[calgon]

Really happy with my SRT so far. It has been a blast finally playing genesis/mega drive games and I have yet to notice any sound issues which made the deal all the more sweeter. I'm late to the party so I won't bother echoing what Satoshi and Stardust have mentioned about the various NES issues but I'm still very pleased. I was even surprised with the quality of the controller.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah, isn't it GREAT?! Retro-Bit really outdid themselves with that controller. I've been in contact with them and told them they should sell them individually for $9.99.

I would promote the hell out of that. Those controllers are absolutely excellent, even better than the Super Retro Controllers that came with the first model RetroDuo Portable.

[calgon]

Almost a year later my SRT is still going strong however I wonder if anyone in the know has heard of a hardware revision that fixes the genesis noise? I know there were a few revisions of the retro duo.

I don't trust myself to do mods, so I'd rather just buy an updated unit if possible

[CRTGAMER]

There's nothing better than a all in one classic system like the soon to be released Super Retro Trio console (http://www.dascheap.com/super-retro-trio-3-in1-game-system.html) by Retrobit.


I am going to give you guys a first real (non rendered image) look at this crazy soon to be staple console. Also as you know I cover all the reviews for most popular vintage products, and will be attending E3 as well next week to showcase other cool vintage gaming stuffs!


Also on a side note, if you guys preorder now, the unit will Ship Free for all continental US gamers.

Love the SVideo and Composite option on the Super Retro Trio, a shame the Retron 5 is only HDMI. I know it was designed for newer HDTVs, but should hyave included the other connections as well.

I noticed the region video output switch, will the Super Retro Trio support NTSC and PAL import games such as Famicom and Super Famicom carts?

[stardust4ever]

Almost a year later my SRT is still going strong however I wonder if anyone in the know has heard of a hardware revision that fixes the genesis noise? I know there were a few revisions of the retro duo.

I don't trust myself to do mods, so I'd rather just buy an updated unit if possible
Sound output on my SRT Genesis side is very clean. It's cleaner than the mono output on my VA7 Model 1 Genesis, and comparable to what I get from the headphone output set halfway.


Love the SVideo and Composite option on the Super Retro Trio, a shame the Retron 5 is only HDMI. I know it was designed for newer HDTVs, but should hyave included the other connections as well.

I noticed the region video output switch, will the Super Retro Trio support NTSC and PAL import games such as Famicom and Super Famicom carts?The SRT should support most PAL NES games, Famicom (with adapter) and all Super Famicom games. The region switch is for the Genesis side. The switch does not change the output video format from 60Hz, but merely sets the internal region setting on the console. Games can check this setting and refuse to run if the region is wrong. Some JU Genesis/Megadrive games share the same ROM for both regions and display alternate graphics or Japanese text when the console is set to Jap. Early PAL SNES games may run on the SRT, but games released after 1992 will refuse to load on SNES hardware with NTSC timings.

SRT is easily the most compatible of all the 3-in-1 clone consoles. I would highly recommend it.