ITS OFFICIAL!!! PS4=no drm, no bullshit, trade your games and play offline! [Archive]

LimitedEditionMuseum

06-11-2013, 12:08 AM

My prediction: Microsoft will announce they abandon all the drm bullshit before the end of the week, or else xbox one is already dead. Even if they do, I will not buy it and hope Microsoft will take a huge loss and abandon xbox business... fuck them! Long live sony and nintendo!

How can somthing that you had no part in creating, didnt go to c\school to become a developer and work on the production of it,
does not harm you or any family member, a company that employs thousands of people, provides enjoyment for millions of consumers........how can a company make anybody so angry? I dont like sports and guess what, i dont watch them. why would I say fuck Kobe and Lebron? I dont understand the silly hate that people have for video game companies....just dont buy it and that solves the problem.

PreZZ

06-11-2013, 12:13 AM

How can somthing that you had no part in creating, didnt go to c\school to become a developer and work on the production of it,
does not harm you or any family member, a company that employs thousands of people, provides enjoyment for millions of consumers........how can a company make anybody so angry? I dont like sports and guess what, i dont watch them. why would I say fuck Kobe and Lebron? I dont understand the silly hate that people have for video game companies....just dont buy it and that solves the problem.

are you fucking serious? when I buy something, I own it, its mine. I can do whatever the fuck I want with it because I bought it. If you buy a car and Honda puts DRM in it and you cant share it with your wife, dad, etc. and you have to visit the dealer every 24 hours to prove that your using it and can only sell the car once with a fee, would that make sense? hell no.

Red Warrior

06-11-2013, 12:51 AM

Last generation, many of us who bought only Xbox 360 and Wii referred to it as Wii60 (although I eventually did get a PS3). This generation, it's PSU.

CelticJobber

06-11-2013, 12:51 AM

How can somthing that you had no part in creating, didnt go to c\school to become a developer and work on the production of it,
does not harm you or any family member, a company that employs thousands of people, provides enjoyment for millions of consumers........how can a company make anybody so angry? I dont like sports and guess what, i dont watch them. why would I say fuck Kobe and Lebron? I dont understand the silly hate that people have for video game companies....just dont buy it and that solves the problem.

Because, if the Xbox One with it's draconian DRM features succeeds, it sets a dangerous precedent that could destroy videogaming as we know it forever.

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-11-2013, 12:56 AM

Such an elegant move by Sony.

Microsoft laid it all out on a silver platter for them to take with just a few well placed statements.

They're not doing anything different.

This is the same system as we've always had in place.

All Sony had to do was remind us that they're not going to be fucking with the way that we like to go about our business with our gaming hobby/property.

substantial_snake

06-11-2013, 01:00 AM

This is great news and the reaction from the audience was amazing. Hopefully this news will cause Microsoft to back away from its generally anti-consumer stance..though I doubt it.

However there is one dark spot of all of this, it looks like Online Play may now be tied into P+. If you didn't notice there is a disclamer at the bottom of the "Official PlayStation Used Game Instructional Video" that implies as much.

JakeM

06-11-2013, 01:06 AM

Completely sums it up. Sony championed us tonight.

6757

fluid_matrix

06-11-2013, 01:07 AM

Last generation, many of us who bought only Xbox 360 and Wii referred to it as Wii60 (although I eventually did get a PS3). This generation, it's PSU.

How about we just call it "P-U" for short.

Thank you, thank you. I'm here all week.

Tokimemofan

06-11-2013, 01:14 AM

I was honestly expecting the always on DRM to come from Sony, I guess Sony is sick of people shorting their stock.

Icarus Moonsight

06-11-2013, 02:00 AM

Sad, when simply bringing what consumers expect puts you miles above a major competitor. I'd rather brilliant innovation do that, but a W is a W.

Might as well regard the Xbox as Zero, or Phantom 2. We'll see.

Thinking about sniffing around for a modded 360 about now. Guessing supply is outstripping demand now, if only by sheer disgust. lol

WCP

06-11-2013, 02:08 AM

Wow....

I was totally blown away by Sony tonite. In fact, my eyes were actually welling up, no lie. I was overjoyed that Sony didn't go down the dark road that Microsoft went down, and I was seriously amazed that collusion hadn't taken place, because I thought it was a forgone conclusion that Sony and Microsoft worked out a gentleman's agreement with the whole DRM thing. To say that I was shocked by what I was witnessing was a serious understatement.

I was practically in disbelief, but at the same time, almost shedding a tear for the joy I was feeling inside that my hobby wouldn't completely go to hell, at least for another 7 years.

JakeM

06-11-2013, 02:32 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PczLKgve-RI

Icarus Moonsight

06-11-2013, 02:36 AM

Logically, collusion among companies is an insane position to put yourself in. The first to break agreement gains an immediate advantage, looks the hero even. An outside group can do it too, and they never even were part of the agreement. Between businesses, it's mythology. Period.

Sony could have made a tacit agreement, intending to break their backs with it. It's what I'd do in their place.

JSoup

06-11-2013, 03:03 AM

Figured Sony would do something like this. They've always been good to me, so if I decide to move into the next generation, the PS4 will be my gateway.

Daltone

06-11-2013, 03:13 AM

It's great how something we used to take forgranted is now a selling point. If Sony had just announced that they were going to charge you to play online there would have been a fuss.

The charge for online multiplayer doesn't really bother me. I can't think of the last PS3 game I played online for more than a couple of mins.

JSoup

06-11-2013, 03:18 AM

Has it been confirmed yet if we're locked out of using our PS3 discs on the PS4? Only a minor point, really, considering how much we're getting.

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-11-2013, 07:33 AM

Has it been confirmed yet if we're locked out of using our PS3 discs on the PS4? Only a minor point, really, considering how much we're getting.

That was confirmed in the original reveal back in Feb.

The hardware is entirely different. While they may find a way to encode existing games to run on the system in a case by case basis like they do with PS2 games on the PSN for non-backwards-compatible PS3 units, you'll likely never be able to pop a PS3 game into a PS4 and have it play.

They want to make the PS3 catalog available via streaming on the Gaikai service. We'll see how that goes.

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-11-2013, 07:34 AM

Region free confirmed.

http://kotaku.com/the-playstation-4-is-region-free-512543811?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow

jonebone

06-11-2013, 07:47 AM

Certainly has me excited. I went Xbox over PS2 because the addition of a Harddrive to a console wowed me. Back then, it was a huge deal to mod your console and have an entire library of videos / emulated games for your leisure.

I went with 360 first because of the library, but eventually caved and got a PS3 much later when Twisted Metal came out.

But this generation, I'm much more interested in PS4 than the Xbox One so far. Will still come down to the games but $100 cheaper is a gigantic selling point for me.

JSoup

06-11-2013, 08:45 AM

That was confirmed in the original reveal back in Feb.

The hardware is entirely different. While they may find a way to encode existing games to run on the system in a case by case basis like they do with PS2 games on the PSN for non-backwards-compatible PS3 units, you'll likely never be able to pop a PS3 game into a PS4 and have it play.

They want to make the PS3 catalog available via streaming on the Gaikai service. We'll see how that goes.

Hmm. What actually interests me more is if current trophy profiles will carry over to the PS4 and will any future earned PS3 trophies count to that new total. It's only a minor concern at the end of the day, but one that's still in the back of my mind.

duffmanth

06-11-2013, 09:23 AM

I think you're right, MS will have to abandon all this DRM shit or the Xbox One will be DOA. On a happier note, Sony hit a giant fucking grand slam at E3. It's nice to see they've learned from their mistakes with the PS3 and are marketing the PS4 as a game console, and are releasing it at $399. It's looking like Sony is back on top of the gaming industry!

Daltone

06-11-2013, 11:37 AM

Oobgarm

06-11-2013, 11:47 AM

Whilst I understand that everyone is very excited that we are getting what we always have gotten (apart from free online gaming), a reasonable sized HDD and a decent looking price tag - was there any mention of the games?

Last time around I bought a PS3 at launch and didn't bother with a 360 (the thinking being I could probably pick up the non PS3 titles I wanted to play on the PC at some point). I'm leaning heavily towards doing the same again this time around. I just wonder which way the publishers are going to go. I can see why they would be attracted to the Xbox One (2k monies with a limited second hand market!) and why they may be put off (don't want to be seen as Satan by excitable geeks). At the end of the day, if publishers prefer the Xbox One's DRM-tastic set up then there is the chance that the good stuff will be going that way.

Despite all the issues with MS' DRM business I'd be surpirsed if it didn't shift a load of units at first just because it is an Xbox. That, and people may come to terms with the thought of it being always online. My PS3 hasn't moved anywhere, my internet has been down once in three years for about half an hour. I realise that not everyone is in the same boat as me, but if the lineup looks good enough I don't think the DRM would get in my way, not matter how repugnant it may be.

Thing is though, if early returns are any indication, that PS4 is going to sell like gangbusters in comparison to the XB1. Publishers will not ignore that and even if it means cutting out a bit of control over their stuff, they'll take the easy money every time.

After the PS2, I went the other way last generation and stuck with the 360, only getting exclusives on PS3. From what I've seen already, I'm going back to Sony.

I understand the reason MS wants to do the DRM, but we've not quite reached the point in the hobby that it's going to take. It's gonna have to be something gradual, like maybe start with a couple individual titles or something. PC gamers are accepting(so to speak) since the license keys in use have evolved to that over time. It's not something that is going to be successful when presented as an about-face from current conditions.

And with PCs, the DRM is only being targeted at those who want to play on their (likely) gaming-spec PC and is equipped to handle the requirements of DRM anyway. It's not quite the same as a games console - which is targeted at everyone, everywhere - and up until now, has been usable in a mostly free-and-clear environment.

Ed Oscuro

06-11-2013, 11:50 AM

The Xbox One is going to be released in late 2014 for Asia (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57588702-75/xbox-one-asia-launch-set-for-late-2014-no-word-on-japan/), with no launch set for Japan.

What this means for the PS4 is likely that there's going to be a dearth of Japanese development on the system.

"Xbox One Territory"

It's not over yet, but I feel bad for the upstart console brand that could. 360 launch aside, I've liked the line up until now.

Also, (fake) Twitter account CEO Kaz Hirai has some amusing quips (https://twitter.com/KazHiraiCEO) on offer, buried in a sea of crap. Still, the funny ones are really quite good.

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-11-2013, 11:52 AM

Whilst I understand that everyone is very excited that we are getting what we always have gotten (apart from free online gaming), a reasonable sized HDD and a decent looking price tag - was there any mention of the games?

Last time around I bought a PS3 at launch and didn't bother with a 360 (the thinking being I could probably pick up the non PS3 titles I wanted to play on the PC at some point). I'm leaning heavily towards doing the same again this time around. I just wonder which way the publishers are going to go. I can see why they would be attracted to the Xbox One (2k monies with a limited second hand market!) and why they may be put off (don't want to be seen as Satan by excitable geeks). At the end of the day, if publishers prefer the Xbox One's DRM-tastic set up then there is the chance that the good stuff will be going that way.

Despite all the issues with MS' DRM business I'd be surpirsed if it didn't shift a load of units at first just because it is an Xbox. That, and people may come to terms with the thought of it being always online. My PS3 hasn't moved anywhere, my internet has been down once in three years for about half an hour. I realise that not everyone is in the same boat as me, but if the lineup looks good enough I don't think the DRM would get in my way, not matter how repugnant it may be.

I don't know what to say about XBOX One, but there shouldn't be much worry as far as the guarantee of "games" proper on PS4.

Aside from what has been shown (which looks good to me) -

The console is a very developer friendly environment, they're allowing for indies to self-publish, and there's an indication that pre-orders/day one adoption will be high if the thousands and thousands of professions of gamers online beginning with Microsoft's DRM policy reveal a few weeks back, through last night and into today are to be believed.

Sony has never had difficulty with working with third party publishers save the darker early days of the PS3's life-cycle, but all that appears to be behind us.

Ed Oscuro

06-11-2013, 11:58 AM

there's an indication that pre-orders/day one adoption will be high if the thousands and thousands of professions of gamers online beginning with Microsoft's DRM policy reveal a few weeks back, through last night and into today are to be believed.
It depends on how well-known these restrictions are, and whether people can see a difference in the games (framerates, details), and whether marketing / the grapevine gets that news out there. People who are following console news online are naturally biased towards the PS4 because they're looking for the superior system.

A poster on another forum shared an anecdote a week or so back, asking various IT pros at their workplace which of the consoles they were pulling for - Xbox One, they said.

But I think it will come down to how well Sony pushes the improved graphics of the new system, and the price. The price is crucial, and Sony hasn't made any mistakes here.

The summer of sharing, no region-locking bits just make me happier. Pretty much the dream console design so far. And $399! That's not too bad for this day and age, especially after $599. Xbox One has no reason to be asking for $50 more or whatever it is.

Daltone

06-11-2013, 12:22 PM

Thing is though, if early returns are any indication, that PS4 is going to sell like gangbusters in comparison to the XB1. Publishers will not ignore that and even if it means cutting out a bit of control over their stuff, they'll take the easy money every time.

I understand the reason MS wants to do the DRM, but we've not quite reached the point in the hobby that it's going to take. It's gonna have to be something gradual, like maybe start with a couple individual titles or something. PC gamers are accepting(so to speak) since the license keys in use have evolved to that over time. It's not something that is going to be successful when presented as an about-face from current conditions.

And with PCs, the DRM is only being targeted at those who want to play on their (likely) gaming-spec PC and is equipped to handle the requirements of DRM anyway. It's not quite the same as a games console - which is targeted at everyone, everywhere - and up until now, has been usable in a mostly free-and-clear environment.

I agree with what you've written. MS' DRM approach seems really strange, like something that they' try on with the PC market.

I just wonder how damaging it'll be in the long run. Everyone's up in arms now, but will that last I wonder? I'd bet on it having some effect on sales, but I think it's too early to bring out the Corpral Hicks impression for the Xbox One yet. Saying that, if Sony is bending over backwards for Indie devs, and presumably major publishers, it's difficult not to say that their offering looks the stronger.

It's a bit of a shame though, I feel like it's the start of a race, only one competitor has gone and cut off a foot with a hacksaw during the warmup. It rather takes the fun out of things knowing that the other competitor will be running with a limp. We should be arguing about specs and pissing and moaning about upcoming instalments of Franchise X being the same old, same old but with better graphics. Instead, one console isn't exactly looking great at letting you play games which at the end of the day is what people want to do.

EDIT: Ed, I liked some of the fake Kaz's ramblings. Favourites are:

CEO Kaz Hirai‏@KazHiraiCEO13h
It�s amazing how a man saying �remember that thing you can do? You can still do it� is a cause for so much celebration

CEO Kaz Hirai‏@KazHiraiCEO13h
I think we may have managed to announce that you have to now pay for online games without anybody noticing #PlaystationE3

Ed Oscuro

06-11-2013, 12:31 PM

You want to have a discussion about the specs? We could just about do that, except Microsoft isn't even revealing the clock speed of their CPU (which is possibly being lowered due to yield issues), just the transistor budget. We know that they've dedicated a huge amount of the CPU die's transistors to implementing eSRAM (basically a fast, but small, RAM cache) and a number of supporting memory-related features, and these features don't allow the inclusion of other features on the die, like the number of compute units. The PS4 isn't hampered by the need to have a highly cached memory design. You could read more on that here (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one). As John Carmack has said, Sony has made some wise design choices.

Overall it's been a really bad month for everything Xbox, on just about every front but launch games. Price, performance (including a relatively bloated OS), shooting-the-foot DRM overreaching, giving up markets in Asia and Japan, and Sony ascendant - it really looks like they must be in a panic right now.

Daltone

06-11-2013, 12:40 PM

You want to have a discussion about the specs? We could just about do that, except Microsoft isn't even revealing the clock speed of their CPU (which is possibly being lowered due to yield issues), just the transistor budget.

Thanks for the link. I'm sure that about now someone would usually be making crazy statements like "MS hasn't revealed anything because the Xbox will be able to render every atom in the game and they don't want North Korea buying them all up". Or maybe I'm getting old.

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-11-2013, 01:38 PM

It's a bit of a shame though, I feel like it's the start of a race, only one competitor has gone and cut off a foot with a hacksaw during the warmup. It rather takes the fun out of things knowing that the other competitor will be running with a limp. We should be arguing about specs and pissing and moaning about upcoming instalments of Franchise X being the same old, same old but with better graphics. Instead, one console isn't exactly looking great at letting you play games which at the end of the day is what people want to do.

Totally agree. When there is healthy competition we all win, and I do enjoy getting unique experiences on multiple platforms.

However, Microsoft's start out of the gate is not looking good and unless they do something dramatic with their DRM policies and price point between now and launch (which, realistically isn't likely) I can't see myself being an early adopter.

I will say that after Nintendo's direct conference, I'm feeling more confident about picking up a Wii-U though. So, for the start of this generation I'll likely bounce back and forth between a PS4 and a Wii-U on the console front until Microsoft has something exclusive that I simply must play/makes some kind of offer that I just can't refuse.

Namnuta

06-11-2013, 02:05 PM

I had all 3 consoles this gen and really only used my Xbox 360. And i feel really alone in saying this. But i still feel that MS has gained such a market share from Sony, that the Xbox One will still do well.

I guess i am still a PSone fanboy that has felt lied to by Sony over and over again when it comes too there presentations for the PS2 and PS3. All the last gen claims of there power and graphics when everything was pre rendered and lies.

It will be interested to see what happens this gen. But im still not ready to drinks Sonys koolaid just yet. I think it maybe a skip gen for me, and just stick with my PC and a 360 controller.

Berserker

06-11-2013, 02:06 PM

I have to give my respect to Sony here. Sure, every console generation before might have had the same lack of restrictions, but there also wasn't the zealous crusade by publishers against common sense physical property rights that there is right now. The pressure on them not to do what they've just done must have been immense; no doubt it would've been easier to just buckle and feature some similarly hackneyed connectivity-required/DRM system.

Do I want to see Microsoft fail? Part of me does. Competition is good, and without it we all lose, but Microsoft has seemed a clueless behemoth for a long time now. The fact that the Xbox division was, until now, able to avoid the ridiculousness of the bureaucratic morass infecting the rest of the company and its products was nothing short of remarkable. Clearly that time has passed. The price is beyond what it should be, and the restrictions are beyond what they should be.

I'm sure they'll make some sales, if only for the platform-specific IPs involved, but it'd be nice if they also finally got the message that yes, you do actually want to make sensible business decisions that coincide with what your customers actually want now and then.

heybtbm

06-11-2013, 02:29 PM

WCP

06-11-2013, 02:48 PM

So now Sony backtracks and basically announces they have the same used game policy as Microsoft? "It's up to the publishers".

Lol...enjoy eating that crow fanboys.

(Shrugs shoulders) I'm still getting both consoles. I just love it when the Sony circlejerk gets a dose of reality. Lol.

Technically, it's EXACTLY the same as it is now with PS3. Remember that Final Fight game on PSN ? It requires that you are online, and signed in to PSN to play. So, Sony has already been allowing the publishers to decide. Plus, the key thing is that publishers will typically follow the first party in policies like this. If you can freely sell and trade games like Uncharted 4, etc, etc, it's hard to imagine other publishers putting various restrictions on their games, when Sony isn't doing it.

With the Xbox One, it will probably be very similar in those ways, but the problem is the whole only being able to "give" a game to a friend that's been on your friends list for 30 days. That's a pretty restrictive situation, and Sony's policy is much better in that regard.

Whilst I understand that everyone is very excited that we are getting what we always have gotten (apart from free online gaming), a reasonable sized HDD and a decent looking price tag - was there any mention of the games?

Well, here's the thing... Sony's conference was amazing in certain ways, but horrible in other ways. Sure, there was the no DRM thing that made my eyes almost well up with tears, but there is also the fact that Sony didn't really show any super amazing games that are coming out for launch. The best game I've seen Sony show is inFamous, but it's coming in 2014. What the heck does Sony have for launch ?

Killzone - Yeah, not so much. Killzone is a cliche of all the space marine shooter type games, and it seems very uninspired to me. Sure, the games usually have some pretty nice eye-candy, but the gameplay and story is pretty meh.

Knack - Knack looks kinda cute and entertaining, but at $59.99 ? I sure hope not. Also, while it might be a decent game, it's not something thats going to convince me to drop 430 smackers.

DriveClub - If it was Motorstom 4, I'd be hyped, but it's DriveClub. I'm not really into Forza type games. Hopefully it has more of an arcade racer bent to it.

Those 3 games have been confirmed as guarantee launch games, but none of them seem all that amazing to me. I'm much more excited to play Dead Rising 3 and Ryse on Xbox One, which are both supposedly launch games. So, while Sony did just about everything I wanted them to do, they kinda dropped the ball on giving us a real meaty launch game to latch onto. Hopefully there will be a big suprise at Gamescon or TGS.

heybtbm

06-11-2013, 02:59 PM

Frankie_Says_Relax

06-11-2013, 03:21 PM

So now Sony backtracks and basically announces they have the same used game policy as Microsoft? "It's up to the publishers".

But it's not the same.

There are no mandates set and no unified internal system supporting it.

As you've stated, publishers would be pretty stupid to attempt to apply/enforce it after all of this.

ESPECIALLY in a retail ecosystem where it's not going to be the norm. If 1st party games won't be using it, that really should set the appropriate standard.

Fapfest or not, that crowd was the litmus that should be observed here. They do not want policies like this in place.

kainemaxwell

06-11-2013, 03:28 PM

I expect an apology from microsoft before the end of e3 and a price drop... but still, fuck them

Nah they'll apologize with free games.

Xander

06-11-2013, 03:31 PM

But i still feel that MS has gained such a market share from Sony, that the Xbox One will still do well.

I don't really get that kind of statement. If you check the history, the success of a console for one generation is not a guarantee to the success of the next one (exemple: gamecube sold ~22M and Wii sold ~100M or Playstation 2 sold ~155M and Playstation 3 sold ~77M).

I doubt that the relative success of the XBOX360 will automatically make a success of the XBOXONE. I could easily see the XBOXONE bombing with a third or half the amount of units sold for the XBOX360.

Bojay1997

06-11-2013, 03:34 PM

I can't imagine any publisher even thinking of enforcing drm after all the hysteria of the last few days. Microsoft will also be forced to dial it back with the strict drm if they want to survive (obviously). I just think Sony neglected to put a big asterisk by their "you can play used games!!!" fapfest last night.

Even with the asterisk, there is a very substantial difference between what Sony is doing (essentially maintaining the same policy they had on PS3) versus what Microsoft is doing (limiting where and how used games can be sold at the hardware level and requiring a mandatory 24 hour check-in). I get that Microsoft is taking a different approach to how games are even played with what seems to be a massive amount of cloud usage, co-processing and persistent on-line worlds. Frankly, Sony probably doesn't have the infrastructure in place right now to do anything close to what Microsoft is planning to do. The problem from my perspective is that instead of presenting that alternate vision for how games are played as an advancement while acknowledging that not everyone wants games of that scale, Microsoft critically injured themselves by essentially closing the door on used sales and more casual gaming (i.e. someone who plays maybe a few hours a week and never hops on the Internet to game). Maybe there is enough of a dedicated gamer market out there to support something like Xbox One, but given the slight performance edge Sony is likely to enjoy with the PS4 architecture and the fact that third party publishers will be generally supporting both platforms, I find it hard to see how Microsoft gets beyond this very major gaffe, especially given how narrowly focused their first party studios have become in the past few years.

WCP

06-11-2013, 03:48 PM

Xbox One will still sell, and it will sell very well unfortunately.

It would be nice for Microsoft to reap what they have sown, but unfortunately, there are too many 30 year old males with disposable incomes, that are locked in to the Xbox infrastructure. Achievements, friends list, where people play Call of Duty and Madden and NBA 2K. People have grown comfortable in Microsoft's Xbox world, and for those people, all the DRM talk is going to go into one ear, and out the other. They are going to see how good Madden and Call of Duty look on that Xbox, and they are going to want one. Period.

Now, the $499 price is a bit harsh, so money talks and BS walks, so some people aren't going to be able to afford one of them for awhile. Microsoft is overcharging a full $100 on that thing. No way in hell it should be $500. They are basically charging a $100 early adopter tax, on their most fervent fan base. But, those are the people that are so locked in to the Xbox way, that they will get away with it. I'd estimate the first 2 million Xbox Ones will have no problem selling out this Xmas.

However.... when we get to January, and February, and that new car smell fades away from the Xbox One, and people start to understand that they can't sell games on Craigslist or Ebay, and they can't rent games, and their games don't have as much intrinsic value, then the tide will turn. At that point, Sony could make a serious inroad on their user base. But, Microsoft will be able to use enough smoke and mirrors between now and New Years, that they will have no problem selling their US inventory out, and selling a strong amount of games as well.

Rickstilwell1

06-11-2013, 04:03 PM

I don't really get that kind of statement. If you check the history, the success of a console for one generation is not a guarantee to the success of the next one (exemple: gamecube sold ~22M and Wii sold ~100M or Playstation 2 sold ~155M and Playstation 3 sold ~77M).

I doubt that the relative success of the XBOX360 will automatically make a success of the XBOXONE. I could easily see the XBOXONE bombing with a third or half the amount of units sold for the XBOX360.

See also Sega Genesis and Sega Saturn. Super Nintendo and Nintendo 64. Big drops for both companies.

JakeM

06-11-2013, 04:45 PM

Nah they'll apologize with free games.

Killer Instinct is free, well, one character is. Thats so stupid.

PS4 will leave it to publishers to implement DRM, but at least Sony wont be doing it off the bat.

Rickstilwell1

06-11-2013, 06:04 PM

Killer Instinct is free, well, one character is. Thats so stupid.

PS4 will leave it to publishers to implement DRM, but at least Sony wont be doing it off the bat.

To me, the main thing is just that the system alone won't have to be plugged into an internet cable to play every single game. Which means I can take it to my friend's house like I did with my PS3 in a large-size laptop bag and not have complain about not having a spare Ethernet cable to plug into his router, or having to worry about none of them remembering their wifi password.

kupomogli

06-11-2013, 07:51 PM

During an interview with GameTrailers, Jack Tretton said that, �The DRM decision is going to have to be answered by the third parties, it�s not something we�re going to control, or dictate, or mandate, or implement.� The internet immediately exploded, with many on Twitter accusing Sony of walking back their statements from the presser last night.

Rather than speculate, we went directly to Sony to find out what�s going on. Turns out, it�s a very similar system to what�s in place on the PS3 now. According to Dan Race, Senior Director, Corporate Communications for Sony, Tretton�s statements were referring specifically to playing used games online. He told me,

"The Online Pass program for PlayStation first-party games will not continue on PlayStation 4. Similar to PS3, we will not dictate the online used game strategy (the ability to play used games online) of its publishing partners. As announced last night, PS4 will not have any gating restrictions for used disc-based games. When a gamer buys a PS4 disc they have right to use that copy of the game, so they can trade-in the game at retail, sell it to another person, lend it to a friend, or keep it forever."

Jack Tretton was only talking about games with the current online pass and apparently they won't be allowing any DRM that locks out single player.

http://www.gamefront.com/sony-third-party-drm-refers-to-playing-used-games-online-only/

Atarileaf

06-12-2013, 07:54 AM

As someone who is almost completely disinterested in modern games, based one what I've heard and read, even I would choose the PS4 in a heartbeat over the xbox one. Still, I'd rather spend $400 on a tablet and play the type of games I REALLY enjoy anyway but the point is, the PS4 should easily win when it comes to consumers who are on the fence.

Scotterpop

06-12-2013, 09:59 AM

Good on you, Sony. Good on you. I was just as relieved as you guys were after the announcement. Now everything seems to be in Sony's favor, so let's hope that this sends a very clear message to Microsoft. So the question now is: Will M$ actually follow through with its current plans for the XBone or will it give in to the pressure and remove all these ridiculous restrictions and release a system people will actually want to buy? Given the complexities of the network they already have in place, I really doubt anything will change at this point. And that would be a shame because although I prefer Playstation, I have a 360 as well and have enjoyed it immensely. Like others have said here, competition breeds innovation and keeps prices low. Having one console completely decimate the others would eventually be a bad thing for gamers and the industry as a whole. But I have to admit that part of me really would like to see M$ crash and burn for attempting this ridiculous DRM and connection requirement crap. Your customers have spoken, and they're now ready to throw all that pretty cash at your competitor... so what are you gonna do about it?

Robocop2

06-12-2013, 11:47 AM

I will say that physically both consoles are rather nice looking. But I like large black boxes. The PS4 especially because in a way it references the PS2 which I found to be one of the more aesthetically pleasing consoles I have owned. Not that that really matters much

Namnuta

06-12-2013, 12:44 PM

See also Sega Genesis and Sega Saturn. Super Nintendo and Nintendo 64. Big drops for both companies.

I can see your point. But no other generation had ecosystems supporting them. XboxLive, PSN, etc. These are IMO driving factors for which systems people prefer.

And again i am probably alone here. But i do not feel the whole used game issue is a big deal. I buy all my games new, don't loan, or resell. Maybe i am the exception; but among my friends its the norm.

What i am interested is games, and entertainment. Which no one knows really anything yet as we have not sat down and played these systems. I may fall in love with the PS4, or i may really love the Xbox One. But until i have used them, had the controller in my hand. I really have no reason to like or dislike either. I don't trust videos from either company especially after the whole Killzone 2 real time footage LMAO.

Sony and MS have the same stance (From what i read) on DRM and used games other than the connect every 24 hour thing for the xbox one. Both have stated that they will leave it up to the publisher. So there are controls built into each system, like it or not. Sony just presented it better.

It will be interesting to see what these systems actually deliver and restrict. And im not closing the door on either until they are actually in the wild. Odds are i will buy both, as i already have a Wii U collecting dust. LOL

kupomogli

06-12-2013, 12:55 PM

Sony and MS have the same stance (From what i read) on DRM and used games other than the connect every 24 hour thing for the xbox one. Both have stated that they will leave it up to the publisher. So there are controls built into each system, like it or not. Sony just presented it better.

It was confusion on part of GameTrailers who didn't question Jack Tretton when he said "DRM." When speaking about DRM, Jack Tretton meant online passes, which include online, some DLC that comes with games that people buy new(EA games for example,) but he'd also mean stuff like Gamestop preorder vouchers as well. First cleared up by another Sony rep the other day, which I posted in the other thread, now coming from Jack Tretton himself.

So no. The used games issue between Xbox One and PS4 are not alike. The used games issue between PS3, Wii U, PS4, and 360 are alike.

Any game that is made for PS4 that is physical goods, whether first-party or third-party, can go into a PS4 and play regardless of where it came from. The first player will play it, no problem, the second player will play it, no problem. What I was referring to was the online proposition.

If you buy a used disc from GameStop, you�ll have no problem popping that disc in and playing it from your PlayStation 4. The issue may arise when you try to jump online and play with other players. At that point, a third-party publisher may impose a fee or not allow that.

The easiest way to explain it is � if you understand how it works on PlayStation 3, then that�s the same way it will work on PlayStation 4. No changes there. We�ve been out for six and a half years. It�s the same experience.

http://www.gamesthirst.com/2013/06/11/jack-tretton-clears-up-confusion-over-ps4-used-game-drm-stance/

Griking

06-12-2013, 03:24 PM

are you fucking serious? when I buy something, I own it, its mine. I can do whatever the fuck I want with it because I bought it. If you buy a car and Honda puts DRM in it and you cant share it with your wife, dad, etc. and you have to visit the dealer every 24 hours to prove that your using it and can only sell the car once with a fee, would that make sense? hell no.

Luckily you haven't bought it yet then. IMO you don't purchase something knowing that it's specifically designed NOT do something that you want it to do and then rage over it not being able to do it.

Microsoft seems to be an overly stubborn company who doesn't tend to admit mistakes. Just look at Windows 8. They're coming out with Windows 8.1 (or Windows Blue) soon which after tons of screaming finally restores the Start button but without it's functionality. :?

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to admit their mistake. They seem more than willing to hold their ground and absorb all of the losses that comes from it.

Griking

06-12-2013, 03:35 PM

But it's not the same.

There are no mandates set and no unified internal system supporting it.

As you've stated, publishers would be pretty stupid to attempt to apply/enforce it after all of this.

ESPECIALLY in a retail ecosystem where it's not going to be the norm. If 1st party games won't be using it, that really should set the appropriate standard.

Fapfest or not, that crowd was the litmus that should be observed here. They do not want policies like this in place.

Basically what you have here is a joy button. Sony developed it, put it into the middle of the room and told everyone that it was there. All of the developers are going to crowd around the joy button and they all want to push it but none of them want to be the first to do so. However as soon as one pushes it they're all going to push it. When that happens you can certainly all blame the developers for pushing the button but you also need to blame Sony for building it, putting it in front of them and tempting them with it.

When you think about it it's kind of like crack.

Rickstilwell1

06-12-2013, 03:37 PM

Maybe if they do bad, then they will come out with the Xbox One mini, which plays games straight from the disc. That's what they did last time when hardware failed too much, they just made a better mini system.

Robocop2

06-12-2013, 05:25 PM

Basically what you have here is a joy button. Sony developed it, put it into the middle of the room and told everyone that it was there. All of the developers are going to crowd around the joy button and they all want to push it but none of them want to be the first to do so. However as soon as one pushes it they're all going to push it. When that happens you can certainly all blame the developers for pushing the button but you also need to blame Sony for building it, putting it in front of them and tempting them with it.

When you think about it it's kind of like crack.

"How can they possibly resist the maddening urge to eradicate gaming history at the mere push of a single button? The beautiful, shiny button? The jolly, candy-like button? Will they hold out, folks? Can they hold out?"

sloan

06-12-2013, 05:48 PM

Xbox One will still sell, and it will sell very well unfortunately.

Microsoft has basically written off the rural US population that has dial-up, military personnel, and many nations where internet is intermittent or nonexistent. With the $100 price difference, they are crippled from the start, so I don't understand your statement.

The 1 2 P

06-12-2013, 06:50 PM

I find it amusing that we are all applauding a last gen/almost all gen feature like it's some new wave of the future. Even if both Sony and Microsoft had DRM restrictions somewhere during the middle of gen 8 developers/publishers would start complaining about some other reason that they are losing profits, such as new $60 games are too cheap to make a profit. Sony definitely made the right call with this decision, while Microsoft has been too busy playing open nuts with themselves to see where their consumer interest lies. Even though I personally don't have a problem with the internet connection requirements or Kinect cam I'm still waiting for them to clarify how those and the used game restrictions are a benefit to the consumer.

Mangar

06-12-2013, 09:31 PM

I'm hearing/read conflicting reports. So to clarify...

Can a Third Party Publisher, if they so CHOOSE to do so (regardless of if it's likely or unlikely) ban the re-sale of their game? IE: Can a Publisher decide to bar/block used games sales, of their specific games using Sony's DRM?

The way I've been reading things, it seems they can. Sony may be discouraging it, but at the end of the day - It's really up to them. Am I incorrect in this?

Cornelius

06-12-2013, 09:47 PM

kupomogli

06-12-2013, 10:23 PM

I'm hearing/read conflicting reports. So to clarify...

The official word is that they're only allowing online passes and it'll work exactly how the PS3 does now. Jack Tretton specifically said that in an interview clearing up what he meant by DRM after E3. Until that official statement changes, conspiracy theories on whether this will change or not are invalid. Sony has already shown that they're not against declining a game being released on their system either.

As for online passes, Sony won't be doing them because in order to play online, you're required to have PS+ now. Third party developers may still add an online pass to get money from a used game sale that way. With PS+ Sony stated they will still give away free games each month for the PS3, Vita, and adding PS4 starting with Drive Club PS+ edition which has a slightly skimmed down version of the full game.

Sony's also stated that Netflix, Hulu, Amazon video, and any other apps like that will not require PS+ to function. You can still get online with those apps without PS+ on the PS4. PS3 and Vita games will still have free online multiplayer without PS+ as well. They've also stated that certain games will be able to be played online without PS+ as well. Free to play games like DC Universe and Planetside 2 won't require PS+, and other games won't require PS+ to play online multiplayer either, but only at third party developer discretion. Basically. All online multiplayer is free for all consoles except PS4, all apps work online for all consoles, but 99% of the PS4 titles will require PS+ to play online multiplayer only.

Sony's also stated officially that unless the game can't be played without the Playstation Eye or Playstation Move, then the game is required to be playable through remote play. So 99% of all PS4 titles will have remote play compatibility through Vita. Basically play your PS4 games on your Vita either at home or through a Wifi hotspot.

Those are all official statements coming from the people at the top of Sony's Playstation division. Everything that people have wanted to have confirmed has been confirmed.

Mangar

06-12-2013, 10:27 PM

No, you are exactly correct. It is important to add that, from my understanding, this is also the case with PS3 games. The likelihood of this happening with the ps4 vs ps3 is debatable.

Well not really. A 3rd party publisher can bar used games from online content on the ps3, like EA did for some of it's titles. (and recently removed due to consumer backlash) However, they can't bar single player. IE: You buy a game used, you can play it all you like offline. With that said, I really don't see how Sony's PS4 policy is any different from Microsoft's Xbox One policy regarding used games. If a 3rd party publisher decides to block used game sales on the Xbox, it stands to reason they would do the exact same thing on the Ps4. Why would you allow it on one, but not the other? Makes little sense.

Mangar

06-12-2013, 10:30 PM

Replied prior to seeing the last post :)

Ok.. So only online passes. So Used games are a go.... That's what I was curious about.

Rev. Link

06-13-2013, 07:47 AM

Well not really. A 3rd party publisher can bar used games from online content on the ps3, like EA did for some of it's titles. (and recently removed due to consumer backlash) However, they can't bar single player. IE: You buy a game used, you can play it all you like offline. With that said, I really don't see how Sony's PS4 policy is any different from Microsoft's Xbox One policy regarding used games. If a 3rd party publisher decides to block used game sales on the Xbox, it stands to reason they would do the exact same thing on the Ps4. Why would you allow it on one, but not the other? Makes little sense.

Because Microsoft is giving them the ability to do that on the Xbox One. Sony is not giving them the ability to do that on the PS4.
If anything, a 3rd party publisher that is choosing to block used games on the Xbox One would probably just not put their games on the PS4 or Wii U.