Unsalvagable NES Game???

[treismac]

Well, I finally found it- a NES game that I can't fix. I picked it up for $2 at a local retro video game & toy store, so it isn't really worth the gas to drive back there and get a refund. Here are some pics below. I am curious as to what might have caused this to the pcb.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1011342_10152968196340294_215605792_n.jpg



https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/9371_10152968191135294_565287822_n.jpg



The traces are eroded it appears.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p206x206/1009143_10152968209830294_391312298_o.jpg

[Graham Mitchell]

You could always try soldering in some jumper wires to skip over the damaged traces. It's also possible you've got a dead EPROM or mask rom on there. Neither of these fixes are probably worth your time unless that's a bubble bobble 2 or something.

[treismac]

You could always try soldering in some jumper wires to skip over the damaged traces. It's also possible you've got a dead EPROM or mask rom on there. Neither of these fixes are probably worth your time unless that's a bubble bobble 2 or something.

Bingo. I'm just thankful this isn't an ultra rare game I found in the wild. How heartbreaking that would've been. :(

[wiggyx]

I'm gonna guess that Brasso did this.

[Flam]

I picked it up for $2 at a local retro video game & toy store,

Planet Fun?

[treismac]

Planet Fun?

The very same. I think I'll make an excuse to go downtown today and exchange the game. Heck, John might have another copy of Rollerball in the backroom for all I know.

[Polygon]

I'm gonna guess that Brasso did this.

Looking like someone got a little too aggressive with some sandpaper to me.

[wiggyx]

Looking like someone got a little too aggressive with some sandpaper to me.

Looking at the pics again, it does indeed look that way. The white residue made me immediately think Brasso since it's become so popular for cleaning contacts, yet has been shown to be a tad too volatile for such things. The sandpaper-Brasso combo is about the worst choice I can think of to restore cart contacts :(

[Flam]

Planet Fun seemed like a pretty neat little store, when I was on business in Savannah I got a pretty good buzz on at World of Beer and rode my bike over to the store and bought a couple of games.

I really hope you were joking with the sand paper comment, do people really do that?

[Polygon]

Looking at the pics again, it does indeed look that way. The white residue made me immediately think Brasso since it's become so popular for cleaning contacts, yet has been shown to be a tad too volatile for such things. The sandpaper-Brasso combo is about the worst choice I can think of to restore cart contacts :(

Yeah, I had no idea Brasso was causing people any problems. I didn't think Brasso was very abrasive. Still, apply too much pressure with a metal polish on something like a PCB and you can see how you might have issues. I would call that user error more than the fault of Brasso. Still, I use the polish from Nintendo Repair Shop as it's cheaper for me, plus I've never had issues. I still can't believe people suggest sandpaper either. It's pretty sad. It has me wanting to make a video about cleaning games because I'm sick of seeing people suggesting sandpaper, magic erasers, pencil erasers, and WD-40 to clean games.


I really hope you were joking with the sand paper comment, do people really do that?

Yep, they sure do. YouTube is littered with video suggesting using it.

[wiggyx]

Yeah, I had no idea Brasso was causing people any problems. I didn't think Brasso was very abrasive. Still, apply too much pressure with a metal polish on something like a PCB and you can see how you might have issues. I would call that user error more than the fault of Brasso. Still, I use the polish from Nintendo Repair Shop as it's cheaper for me, plus I've never had issues. I still can't believe people suggest sandpaper either. It's pretty sad. It has me wanting to make a video about cleaning games because I'm sick of seeing people suggesting sandpaper, magic erasers, pencil erasers, and WD-40 to clean games.



Yep, they sure do. YouTube is littered with video suggesting using it.

I use the Magic Eraser for about 90% of cleanings that I do when picking up a used game. I personally think it's a great tool. I don't think there's anything wrong with WD-40 or pencil erasers either (though I don't employ either for this purpose).

I've also started dabbling with Tarn-X for corrosion removal on the contacts with good results. I want to do some longer term testing to make sure that it's not harming the contacts at all, but so far it seems to be a really great and easy way to remove oxidization without having to use an abrasive of any sort.

[Aussie2B]

I don't know why gamers are trying to get all fancy in recent years and reinvent the wheel. Isopropyl alcohol works just fine, it's probably cheaper than any other option, and it doesn't cause any harm. After all, it's what was in those official "cleaning kits" back in the day. If anything is being particularly difficult, I'll break out the eraser, but in general, rubbing alcohol is all I need.

[sloan]

I have used 400 grit sandpaper lightly on every NES game in my collection, around 400 total, and all are perfectly playable. Sandpaper did not render that game unplayable. Most likely it is a EPROM chip gone bad. It happens.

[Polygon]

I use the Magic Eraser for about 90% of cleanings that I do when picking up a used game. I personally think it's a great tool. I don't think there's anything wrong with WD-40 or pencil erasers either (though I don't employ either for this purpose).

I've also started dabbling with Tarn-X for corrosion removal on the contacts with good results. I want to do some longer term testing to make sure that it's not harming the contacts at all, but so far it seems to be a really great and easy way to remove oxidization without having to use an abrasive of any sort.

Really? I've not always had the best experiences with Magic Erasers as the can be pretty abrasive. I also wouldn't want to use them because of the chemicals in them. Same goes for WD-40. But that's just me. As for the erasers, well, I've had bad experiences using those which is why I don't care for them.


I don't know why gamers are trying to get all fancy in recent years and reinvent the wheel. Isopropyl alcohol works just fine, it's probably cheaper than any other option, and it doesn't cause any harm. After all, it's what was in those official "cleaning kits" back in the day. If anything is being particularly difficult, I'll break out the eraser, but in general, rubbing alcohol is all I need.

Same here, if ISO can't handle it I use polish. If polish can't handle it I use 000 steel wool as an absolute LAST resort. I've never come across anything the polish couldn't handle.


I have used 400 grit sandpaper lightly on every NES game in my collection, around 400 total, and all are perfectly playable. Sandpaper did not render that game unplayable. Most likely it is a EPROM chip gone bad. It happens.

That just seems very extreem to me. It's one thing to use it as a last resort, but to use it on everything regardless is causing unneeded damage. But hey, they're your games.

[Mr Mort]

I've been using Brasso for about 6 months or so, and I've never had a problem. Seems strange to me that it could do that much damage.

[Polygon]

I've been using Brasso for about 6 months or so, and I've never had a problem. Seems strange to me that it could do that much damage.

I've not used it on games, but I've used it on CDs with success. The only way I could see it causing issues is from excessive pressure, very excessive. I just don't see it eating through the PCB into the traces. I think the people having issues with Brasso aren't telling the whole story.

[treismac]

I've not used on games, but [B]I've used it on CDs with success. The only way I could see it causing issues is from excessive pressure, very excessive. I just don't see it eating through the PCB into the traces. I think the people having issues with Brasso aren't telling the whole story.

What? Brasso works on CDs??? O_O

*Googles "clean CD wih Brasso"*

Well, I'll be damned. If Brasso works on CDs without scratching them, it would seem that there would be little to no chance of it being abrasive enough to damage either traces or pins on a PCB.

[Polygon]

What? Brasso works on CDs??? O_O

*Googles "clean CD wih Brasso"*

Well, I'll be damned. If Brasso works on CDs without scratching them, it would seem that there would be little to no chance of it being abrasive enough to damage either traces or pins on a PCB.

The only issue I could see is that I believe the pins on cartridge based games are copper. Brasso is a brass polish so it won't damage brass. However, brass is a harder metal than copper. Like I said, I could see it being an issue if enough pressure was applied. However, like you said, if you can polish a CD and not damage it then you should be able to damage the PCB. And I have used it on a lot of CDs, never damaged a single one. In fact, it only improved them.

[treismac]

The only issue I could see is that I believe the pins on cartridge based games are copper. Brasso is a brass polish so it won't damage brass. However, brass is a harder metal than copper. Like I said, I could see it being an issue if enough pressure was applied. However, like you said, if you can polish a CD and not damage it then you should be able to damage the PCB. And I have used it on a lot of CDs, never damaged a single one. In fact, it only improved them.

"Q: If BRASSO® is safe for use on copper, why would it streak a copper surface?

A: BRASSO® is safe for pure copper surfaces and will not cause streaking after use. If streaking occurs, it is likely that the surface is copper plated. If BRASSO® is used on copper plated surfaces, streaking can occur."

from http://www.homesolutionsnews.us/brassopolish/faq.shtml

If this is true or not, I do not know, but there it is.

[RP2A03]

What? Brasso works on CDs??? O_O

*Googles "clean CD wih Brasso"*

Well, I'll be damned. If Brasso works on CDs without scratching them, it would seem that there would be little to no chance of it being abrasive enough to damage either traces or pins on a PCB.

When you use Brasso (or toothpaste, car polish, scratch repair compound, whatever) to fix CDs you do so by abrading away a very fine layer of plastic. It's not too much to think that it could possibly erode the solder mask with enough pressure. Though probably of greater concern is its ability to remove the plating on the contacts resulting in accelerated deterioration.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yep, looks like something wet + sandpaper on there - that was my first impression.

I don't know why gamers are trying to get all fancy in recent years and reinvent the wheel. Isopropyl alcohol works just fine, it's probably cheaper than any other option, and it doesn't cause any harm. After all, it's what was in those official "cleaning kits" back in the day. If anything is being particularly difficult, I'll break out the eraser, but in general, rubbing alcohol is all I need.
Yep, this.

After seeing what an eraser did to copper pennies back in the day I wouldn't use it on cartridge contacts.

There are some cases where sandpaper might still be necessary to clean off really thick corrosion, but at that point I'd be worried the corrosion went through the full thickness of the material.

@ treismac:
That's not relevant to this discussion because it's a totally different application. For home cleaning of copper pots and the like, the average person isn't worried about museum-grade cleaning methods. We are, because we don't have a big chunk of copper to deal with, but a fine layer deposited on a surface.

[treismac]

@ treismac:
That's not relevant to this discussion because it's a totally different application. For home cleaning of copper pots and the like, the average person isn't worried about museum-grade cleaning methods. We are, because we don't have a big chunk of copper to deal with, but a fine layer deposited on a surface.

Point taken. Thanks, Ed.

[Thrillo]

So the good ol' 50/50 mix of water and rubbing alcohol is the best way to clean a cart? How about 50/50 water & vodka? I've done that a few times when I ran out of rubbing alcohol and it seems to work pretty well.

[Ed Oscuro]

Vodka is better than nothing, but I would still go with isopropyl - it's not that expensive. I've had a small bottle of the stuff for a few years and I'm not even close to making a dent in it (although I probably use it much less than some other people will have to).

And on that note - why dilute the alcohol in water? Isopropyl alcohol often just pushes the impurities around unless you have something to mop them up - like a towel edge or a cotton swab. However water pushes things around even more and doesn't seem to break down dirt as well as the alcohol. You really want to get the dirt out, so you might as well attack it with pure alcohol.

The water also might contain impurities. I personally have come to the conclusion that, when I can get at a complete PCB and don't have to worry about water damage, the easiest thing to do is wash with soap and water, and a rinse in pure water.

[sloan]

Cluelessness is no excuse for blaming anything and everything for a failed game cartridge. I will say with fair certainty that you could look over those sanded contacts with a magnifying glass and nowhere is a single one broken. Nintendo used at least 1/16" thickness of brass in those traces. I accidentally grabbed 200 grit paper one time and it gouged out some deep scratches in the traces. Guess what, the game still plays to this day. I am telling all you naysayers that this has to be a failed chip of some type on the mobo.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's hard to tell from the pics, but some of the traces look pretty much destroyed in the picture, and the OP says they are, too. It's not enough to just have a very thin portion of each trace working, since that will increase resistance between components. There actually ought to be a reasonable width and thickness per trace to carry the signal properly.

[treismac]

It's hard to tell from the pics, but some of the traces look pretty much destroyed in the picture, and the OP says they are, too.

Yup. An even closer look at the eroded/scratched(?) traces.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/196465_10152972885925294_91877406_n.jpg

One in particular is unquestionably broken.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1003654_10152972908805294_1163993670_n.jpg

Sorry. I am unable to zoom in any further with my camera without it blurring the picture.

[RP2A03]

Something definitely damaged the solder mask exposing the copper to air causing the trace to eventually corrode away. You can even see exposed copper to the left of the arrow. If you jump the traces the game should work. To prevent further corrosion be sure to clean any exposed copper, and seal it with either solder or nail polish.

[Ed Oscuro]

(That's called minimum focus distance (http://photography.about.com/od/takingpictures/ss/flowerlesson_2.htm), in essence moving closer would be like trying to focus in front of the sensor plane, not gonna work.)

Anyway, a Google search for 'trace repair' brings up some interesting results. I should ask around to see if anybody else has any experience with trace repair pens.

[RP2A03]

Anyway, a Google search for 'trace repair' brings up some interesting results. I should ask around to see if anybody else has any experience with trace repair pens.

I used one once; it wasn't the most pleasant experience. The pen clogs and unless you can properly bake the stuff it is very hard to solder to without removing it.

[treismac]

If my solder skills were defter I'd try to repair this for fun, but it just seems like it'd be far too meticulous of a job to undertake to salvage this $2 game.

[RP2A03]

If my solder skills were defter I'd try to repair this for fun, but it just seems like it'd be far too meticulous of a job to undertake to salvage this $2 game.

I would consider this to be a fairly basic job as far as skill level is concerned. If you feel like you need practice, this is the kind of thing to practice on. It looks like you have decent sized areas to solder to, just remove the solder mask on the contacts and solder there as opposed to trying to solder to thin traces. Although I would be a little concerned if all I had was a crappy Radio Shack iron.

Also, is it your camera, or is the solder mask actually missing on about half of those contacts?

[treismac]

Also, is it your camera, or is the solder mask actually missing on about half of those contacts?

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm not 100% sure what solder mask looks like. Is it the green stuff on the pcb? Are you talking about the copper where there is normally green that I have circled in this picture below?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1017106_10152973519515294_1420245283_n.jpg

Because that sure as hell ain't my camera making it look like the copper is coming through the pcb. Never have I seen that occur on a NES game before.

[RP2A03]

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm not 100% sure what solder mask looks like. Is it the green stuff on the pcb? Are you talking about the copper where there is normally green that I have circled in this picture below?

Solder mask is indeed the green stuff, although it seems that it can be just about any color these days, and the circled area should have it as well as all the traces.

I wonder what was used to clean it? The contacts look like they still have their gold plating so it's safe to rule out Brasso, and if sandpaper was used there would be scratches all over the solder mask. I know from experience that Weiman Cook Top Cleaner removes solder mask, but I wonder if gold safe polish or if other things like Magic Erasers do the same.