Does eBay cover buyer stupidity or am I screwed?

[Kitsune Sniper]

Long story short, I sold a Mac program that was specifically listed as not being compatible with Mac OS X Lion or later.

So what happens? Someone buys it, gets it, and then opens an "Item not as described" dispute against me, and the additional information he wrote was "The Quick books program does not work on my iMac. I want to return it for a refund." So I sent him a message asking what the problem was? This is what he replied:


I received the software and tried to load it on my iMac with Mountain Lion version. I received an error message stating that the install software was not supported and therefore I could not use it.

You specified that it would work on Mac computers. I would like to send it back for a full refund.

So right now I'm not sure what to do about this. Should I fight this? The item -was- as described and I specifically mentioned that it would not work on OS X Lion or later. I'm out thirty bucks one way or another, I'm just afraid this guy will leave me a neg.

[rik1138]

Sellers can return anything for any reason and get a refund, nothing you can do about that. If he ships it back and files a claim with PayPal, you won't win.

If you are worried about the neg, just play nice. Just re-explain that, yes, it won't work on the version of US X he's using, and he can return for a full refund. When you get it back, just refund his money. If he's not a total d*ck, he's likely to either just ignore the feedback thing all together, or will still leave a positive stating that you are a reasonable seller... The only other thing he might be obnoxious about is requesting that you also refund him the return shipping cost... In that case I'd probably request a positive feedback be left _first_, then I'd refund him the postage costs after the item is received.

If you really don't care about the software or trying to sell it again, you could just offer to refund the money and let him keep it. I've done that on a couple of cheap things that were damaged in shipping, and the sellers have always left positives (if they left anything) in those cases.

Yeah, it sucks because it's his fault for not reading the description, but if you want to avoid a negative, you'll just have to play nice.

[fluid_matrix]

I always thought the buyer was always right too, until a couple years ago. I had purchased some OEM carbon fiber door inserts, and when I received them, I noticed something was wrong. The one for the front passenger door was warped. I looked at the auction again, and they were stated as brand new, right out of the box. But, as I looked closer at the pic given, you could tell, if you knew what you were looking at. I contacted the seller who offered me a partial refund, which was worthless, because to replace that one piece, you would have to buy a full kit. He told me take it or leave it, and I left it and contacted Paypal for a INAD dispute. Within a couple of days, I get the response from Paypal saying they had denied my claim because once an item has been installed, it's not covered any more, which is bullshit, because I never installed them. I called Paypal and talked to a CS rep, who told me he would get back to me, and that was the last I heard.

Paypal is a necessary evil. I hate them, but yet have to use them every time I buy/sell anything on eBay. Fuck them.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I'm thinking of fighting it because he can't read.

I just want to know if he can still leave me a negative if I win.

[Tokimemofan]

I'm thinking of fighting it because he can't read.

I just want to know if he can still leave me a negative if I win.

Yes he can, however you can get the neg removed if it is deemed abusive, read up on ebay policies for that. Also DO NOT DELETE any emails or messages related to this transaction.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Yes he can, however you can get the neg removed if it is deemed abusive, read up on ebay policies for that. Also DO NOT DELETE any emails or messages related to this transaction.

Don't worry, I never do that.

The guy said that it won't work on his mac and I said it wouldn't work on any OS past Lion so it's his fault. I'm fighting it. Thank you for the comments. This is either going to go really badly or really really badly. :p

[b1aCkDeA7h]

I always thought the buyer was always right too, until a couple years ago. I had purchased some OEM carbon fiber door inserts, and when I received them, I noticed something was wrong. The one for the front passenger door was warped. I looked at the auction again, and they were stated as brand new, right out of the box. But, as I looked closer at the pic given, you could tell, if you knew what you were looking at. I contacted the seller who offered me a partial refund, which was worthless, because to replace that one piece, you would have to buy a full kit. He told me take it or leave it, and I left it and contacted Paypal for a INAD dispute. Within a couple of days, I get the response from Paypal saying they had denied my claim because once an item has been installed, it's not covered any more, which is bullshit, because I never installed them. I called Paypal and talked to a CS rep, who told me he would get back to me, and that was the last I heard.

Paypal is a necessary evil. I hate them, but yet have to use them every time I buy/sell anything on eBay. Fuck them.

Whenever I buy with PayPal, I use my credit card. If PayPal fails to back me, my credit card does a good job of backing me up.

As for the OP, yeah, keep all of your records. You're lucky he contacted you giving you evidence to back your case.

Unfortunately, in one instance, I was negatived at the very threshold of feedback meaning that by the time I noticed the neg, I couldn't even open a dispute on the auction. eBay could do nothing and the buyer never even tried contacting me about the item (I would have given him a refund). I tried messaging him after but he completely ignored me. Crafty buyer.

[Kitsune Sniper]

He sent me another message through eBay (not the dispute) and said this:


I received your Quick Books software, loaded it into my iMac and tried to
launch the software. Unfortunately I received an error message that it
would not be able to load because the software is not supported by iMac. I
purchased the software from your ebay information indicating it would work
on a Mac. Please refund my purchase price. Tku

My guess is he doesn't want to escalate this because realized that he screwed up. Maybe?

[Ponyone]

Sadly, ebay cares about the buyers and spits all over the sellers (you know, the people who make their website by putting up items to sell.. without them they wouldn't have a website).

They usually side with the buyer
You can't leave negative feedback on a buyer, but they can lead bad feedback on you (you can still leave a bad comment, but it shows up as a positive rating for them? okay)
Selling on ebay is a pain. and the last couple of years it seems like every buyer is a deadbeat who doesn't want to pay for items they won because they know nothing will be done against them. I think, like the buyers are... if you're on ebay and buying, I think you need a credit card linked and so when you win something it automatically takes the money out. If you can't afford it and get an overdraft... you problem.

You can't walk into an auction house and just bid things up and not pay for it.

but hey, guess what? If you're a seller, ebay will be more than happy to take the money out of your bank to pay for a refund because the buyer has remorse.

It's a totally screwed up backwards system.

It seems they go completely out of their way for buyers, when it should be the other way around. and uh.... fees? I sell one item and I already owe them 25.67? F Off ebay.

Good luck on your fight but it may be a fruitless one.

[Kitsune Sniper]

It seems they go completely out of their way for buyers, when it should be the other way around. and uh.... fees? I sell one item and I already owe them 25.67? F Off ebay.

They now charge a flat 10% fee for anything you sell. So if you sold an item for $256.70, you have to pay $25.67. There is no "F Off ebay" in this case.

[Ponyone]

They now charge a flat 10% fee for anything you sell. So if you sold an item for $256.70, you have to pay $25.67. There is no "F Off ebay" in this case.

Does "FOFF ebay" work better in this situation?

[Kitsune Sniper]

Whatever. :P

It's been a few days since I replied to the guy. The dispute page no longer says when it'll be automatically closed - so will it close on its own, or do I have to wait for this guy to reply?

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

Ebay doesn't cover buyer mistakes or buyers remorse. Regardless, he can do a charge back if he returns the item and paid via credit card. You wont win fighting a charge back. In fact, contrary to what paypal says, they don't fight them at all unless the buyer does not return the item. If he returns it damaged or imcomplete, paypal will not fight the chargeback.

[Kitsune Sniper]

So nobody knows how long I have to wait for this thing to close on its own? I REALLY need the money that's tied up in this bullshit. If he does issue a chargeback then I can fight it because he hasn't returned anything.

[Zthun]

It seems they go completely out of their way for buyers, when it should be the other way around. and uh.... fees? I sell one item and I already owe them 25.67? F Off ebay.

If buyers don't feel safe, then they won't shop on eBay and will go elsewhere to find their items. There is no eBay without the buyers; that's why sellers put up with their crap. Because eBay gives them a huge customer base that they would have to fight tooth and nail for elsewhere.

[Ponyone]

If buyers don't feel safe, then they won't shop on eBay and will go elsewhere to find their items. There is no eBay without the buyers; that's why sellers put up with their crap. Because eBay gives them a huge customer base that they would have to fight tooth and nail for elsewhere.

well they should feel completely safe. want to be a dick? no problem! no bad feedback. want to win auctions and not pay for it? who cares! Pay me in 2 weeks when you get around to it? That's fine

I've got a lady right now... bought one of my items.. after winning tried to back out. then she noticed she could make some money off item. Listed item (my listing) and then sent me a message telling me that she will pay me when someone buys it and then I ship it to the new person. So I'm now a warehouse. It's completely ridiculous. it's been a week. still no payment.

[Guyra]

So nobody knows how long I have to wait for this thing to close on its own? I REALLY need the money that's tied up in this bullshit. If he does issue a chargeback then I can fight it because he hasn't returned anything.

Well, I had one case automatically close at the beginning of this month. From I opened the case, it stayed open almost exactly a month.

Case Opened: 03-May-13 19:33:24 BST
Case Closed: 02-Jun-13 19:34:18 BST

[Kitsune Sniper]

well they should feel completely safe. want to be a dick? no problem! no bad feedback. want to win auctions and not pay for it? who cares! Pay me in 2 weeks when you get around to it? That's fine

I've got a lady right now... bought one of my items.. after winning tried to back out. then she noticed she could make some money off item. Listed item (my listing) and then sent me a message telling me that she will pay me when someone buys it and then I ship it to the new person. So I'm now a warehouse. It's completely ridiculous. it's been a week. still no payment.

Report the auction to ebay because this person is using your auction photo. That should be enough for them to take it down.

Also, open an unpaid item complaint immediately. They can be opened four days after an auction ends. eBay did some changes to that and buyers have to pay sooner now.

As for my question, I asked on eBay's forums and I have to wait thirty days. >:\

[Zthun]

well they should feel completely safe. want to be a dick? no problem! no bad feedback. want to win auctions and not pay for it? who cares! Pay me in 2 weeks when you get around to it? That's fine

I've got a lady right now... bought one of my items.. after winning tried to back out. then she noticed she could make some money off item. Listed item (my listing) and then sent me a message telling me that she will pay me when someone buys it and then I ship it to the new person. So I'm now a warehouse. It's completely ridiculous. it's been a week. still no payment.

You are too soft. Open an unpaid item dispute. After said buyer doesn't pay, close the case. They can't leave feedback for you if they don't pay. One week is more than enough time to pay.

Also, I realize that I haven't answered the thread. Kitsune, eBay is a buyers market. When you list items on eBay, you get a return policy whether you want one or now. Paypal generally sides with the buyer unless the buyer willingly changes the items sold by the seller. If they open an item not described against you, as long as they haven't modified the item (or they have but keep their mouth shut), then paypal will almost likely side with them. Like it or not, this is why buyers feel safe on eBay and even though I sell on eBay, is also a policy I agree with. eBay wouldn't be half as popular if buyers felt completely uneasy about sellers screwing them all the time, and without buyers, sellers would have to go elsewhere and eBay wouldn't exist.

Honestly, I would have just given the guy a return, paid him his refund, and have been done with it. I know it's not what you want to hear, but unelss paypal's policies have changed within the last few months, you will probably lose this case.

[Ponyone]

You are too soft. Open an unpaid item dispute. After said buyer doesn't pay, close the case. They can't leave feedback for you if they don't pay. One week is more than enough time to pay.

Also, I realize that I haven't answered the thread. Kitsune, eBay is a buyers market. When you list items on eBay, you get a return policy whether you want one or now. Paypal generally sides with the buyer unless the buyer willingly changes the items sold by the seller. If they open an item not described against you, as long as they haven't modified the item (or they have but keep their mouth shut), then paypal will almost likely side with them. Like it or not, this is why buyers feel safe on eBay and even though I sell on eBay, is also a policy I agree with. eBay wouldn't be half as popular if buyers felt completely uneasy about sellers screwing them all the time, and without buyers, sellers would have to go elsewhere and eBay wouldn't exist.

Honestly, I would have just given the guy a return, paid him his refund, and have been done with it. I know it's not what you want to hear, but unelss paypal's policies have changed within the last few months, you will probably lose this case.


I did. It's automatic but you can't do it for several days. I think it took six to finally kick in. Oh I didn't stand for it, but just showing what buyers think they can get away with because there's really no consequences for them

[Kitsune Sniper]

You are too soft. Open an unpaid item dispute. After said buyer doesn't pay, close the case. They can't leave feedback for you if they don't pay. One week is more than enough time to pay.

Also, I realize that I haven't answered the thread. Kitsune, eBay is a buyers market. When you list items on eBay, you get a return policy whether you want one or now. Paypal generally sides with the buyer unless the buyer willingly changes the items sold by the seller. If they open an item not described against you, as long as they haven't modified the item (or they have but keep their mouth shut), then paypal will almost likely side with them. Like it or not, this is why buyers feel safe on eBay and even though I sell on eBay, is also a policy I agree with. eBay wouldn't be half as popular if buyers felt completely uneasy about sellers screwing them all the time, and without buyers, sellers would have to go elsewhere and eBay wouldn't exist.

Honestly, I would have just given the guy a return, paid him his refund, and have been done with it. I know it's not what you want to hear, but unelss paypal's policies have changed within the last few months, you will probably lose this case.

As I said to a friend a while back, if he'd admitted he screwed up instead of saying I was the one at fault, I would've gladly accepted a return. But he didn't. He shifted the blame on me, so he can eat crow.

And no worries on the whole "not what I wanted to hear" thing. This is why I asked for opinions. I may not have done what you wanted me to do, but I'll still listen and take it into consideration for any future issues.