Microsoft Officially Reverses its Used-Game Policy

[Red Warrior]

From IGN: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/microsoft-reversing-xbox-one-internet-used-game-policies?abthid=51c213000e5afa555e00001a


Microsoft has changed its policies regarding Xbox One’s internet requirements, used game restrictions and more.

Contrary to the details announced earlier this month, Microsoft has now confirmed news originally reported on Giant Bomb that Xbox One will not require an internet connection to play offline games or need to check in every 24 hours; instead, internet will only be required when initially setting up the console.

"After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One, you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again," Microsoft wrote. "There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360."

Like on Xbox 360, "playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray."

Xbox One will also no longer restrict used games, and will instead allow discs to be exchanged in the same way they are on Xbox 360. There will be no additional restrictions for trade-ins or lending games to friends. The system is also no longer be region locked and all downloaded games will function the same way whether your console is connected or not.

"Since unveiling our plans for Xbox One, my team and I have heard directly from many of you, read your comments and listened to your feedback," Microsoft's Don Mattrick wrote. "I would like to take the opportunity today to thank you for your assistance in helping us to reshape the future of Xbox One. You told us how much you loved the flexibility you have today with games delivered on disc. The ability to lend, share, and resell these games at your discretion is of incredible importance to you. Also important to you is the freedom to play offline, for any length of time, anywhere in the world."



Wow. Never expected this at all. You have to give Microsoft credit for admitting that they were wrong.

[dendawg]

IMHO, if true, too little too late.

The damage has already been done.

[Griking]

IMHO, if true, too little too late.

The damage has already been done.


Meh, pre-sale numbers say otherwise.

I'm sure that there will still be handfuls of people who won't buy the console for some moral reason or another but the majority of console people will buy one as soon as there's a game on it that they want.

[Bojay1997]

Meh, pre-sale numbers say otherwise.

I'm sure that there will still be handfuls of people who won't buy the console for some moral reason or another but the majority of console people will buy one as soon as there's a game on it that they want.

I would suspect it will actually be a massive number of people considering neither the PS4 or Xbox One seem to have must have day one games and both are getting the same third party AAA titles in the launch period this year. There is also a $100 difference day one.

Where are you finding these "pre-sale" numbers? I can only speak from anecdotal experience at the local Gamestops and Best Buy, but as of yesterday, both Gamestop stores were only "sold out" of launch Xbox Ones because the launch quantity they were given was literally like 20% of what Sony has told stores they will receive. So just based on preorders, my two local Gamestops have over 40 PS4 preorders each and 6-8 Xbox One preorders each. The local Best Buy had 12 (and still has half of them available) on the Xbox One and 35 of the PS4, only about five of which are still available. I'm sure this isn't unique considering what various GS employees have been posting on Neogaf and Cheapassgamer.

[Bojay1997]

Just saw this on IGN: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/microsoft-reversing-xbox-one-internet-used-game-policies?abthid=51c213000e5afa555e00001a

Take it for what it's worth. I suppose we'll find out more soon enough.

CNET is reporting it as well now. Totally unbelievable reversal. I suspect the preorder numbers really were as bad as I have been hearing to trigger a change this significant less than a week after E3.

[The 1 2 P]

I figured they would modify/change some things before launch based on the massive complaints but I didn't think they'd get rid of ALL of the restrictions. But the other important news for gamers is that the system is no longer region locked. So now I can import games from Japan with no issues. This is now a definite buy for me and alot of people who were trying to figure out all their confusing mixed messages. The PS4 still has the price advantage but if Microsoft went this far to stay competitive they may also lower the price by November. I think they should have never went higher than $450. Even if the PS4 had a $50 price advantage most people wouldn't care as long as there were no restrictions.

[Bojay1997]

I figured they would modify/change some things before launch based on the massive complaints but I didn't think they'd get rid of ALL of the restrictions. But the other important news for gamers is that the system is no longer region locked. So now I can import games from Japan with no issues. This is now a definite buy for me and alot of people who were trying to figure out all their confusing mixed messages. The PS4 still has the price advantage but if Microsoft went this far to stay competitive they may also lower the price by November. I think they should have never went higher than $450. Even if the PS4 had a $50 price advantage most people wouldn't care as long as there were no restrictions.

Yep, assuming this is true, I'm in for both the PS4 and the Xbox One. Very exciting news.

[kupomogli]

This makes the Xbox One more appealing as I'm assuming you're no longer required to authenticate any of the games.

I'm also assuming the 10 family member thing is still in effect, but no longer working for physical copies of games. Woud only work for digital games? Or did they remove that as well since they removed the restrictions?

The $100 price and the difference in power is still a difference the PS4 has over Xbox One, but otherwise, the two consoles are exactly the same. This is a good thing. If Microsoft didn't shake things up with the 360, Sony might not have tried as hard as they did with the PS3 and we might not have seen some of the exclusives we did.

[Collector_Gaming]

See this is what happens when the world fights back. Now if only we can get the government to buckle in and do the same thing on some of its policies hmph.

But this still doesn't make me want to or not want to buy the xbox or any next gen consoles for that matter. But glad the people who want to do console gaming vs pc gaming had a chance to let their voices be heard and kick major companies down a few pegs to make them go "hmmm maybe we should listen to them.. after all they are the ones who give us money"

But at the same time if I were you console gamers I wouldn't hold my breathe on this whole thing till it finally hits the public hands to see what it really is all about before we go "alright coast is clear microsoft didn't sell us out"

[Ed Oscuro]

From what I've seen this is a real "hallelujah" moment, if you reserve hallelujahs for "oh look, they decided not to totally sink their business and alienate gamers!" At the same time I'm quite happy they aren't going to sink the business and that they appear to have made things palatable again.

I don't see why people should have enduring bad feelings about this: As many have said before (and are going to say in the future) it looks like we're back to the status quo - eternal vigilance. You'll still have to watch manufacturers, publishers, and basically everybody, as you did before (EA's online passes, Atlus region-locking a game to lock in JP customers but which accidentally torpedoed EU sales, etc.) but I don't see that as something reprehensible.

Unfortunately I do think things look rather dire for Microsoft's system in comparison to the PS4 when it comes to cost, ability, and perhaps some other areas (what's replacing XNA?), but both systems will represent a pretty amazing improvement for most gamers in the near future.

If I've read Microsoft's statement right (http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update), they have done everything it's reasonable to expect. Digital stuff will be as locked-in per account as before, and while I don't like that, there's a consensus around that model and it has been cheaper for everybody. Hopefully moving to X86 will at least make digital distribution have more permanence than before, as well.

[buzz_n64]

Too late. Back track is too late. You had your chance after your press conference to change your plans at E3 but you didn't Microsoft. Go insert a Kinect up your anuses Microsoft.

[klausien]

This news is interesting, but it doesn't change the fact that the Kinect is required, and always watching and listening when the machine's on. You can "pause" it, but that is entirely meaningless. When you can buy it and play it without the camera plugged in I *may* change my mind, but probably not. I love my 360 but with this mess and Windows 8, they lost this paying customer. Microsoft and its smug executives can keep their Spybox.

[Ed Oscuro]

Why should it matter if they've changed? I totally take the stance that my loyalty is only there as long as theirs is, but since they haven't actually done anything to harm me, it's pretty much over as far as I'm concerned. We will always have to watch everybody - manufacturers, publishers, devs, self-publishers, everybody - so wanting somebody to be thinking of your best interests isn't really reasonable. They are always wanting to twist the knife in for money; this time it just turned out they couldn't wing it. And I don't think they should be punished for entertaining the thought, but not rewarded on the merit of change alone either.

Basically it's a wash in that regard.

In my list of "things the Xbox One still needs to prove" list I missed one, though - how are they going to do for Asian and Japanese developer support? Poland (i.e. the developers of The Witcher; you can't forget Poland)? I'm not really familiar with a lot of the developers (or titles) in the launch list but none of them seem to be non-American/non-European. It does seem reasonable to expect that with the delayed launch that there is going to be little happening there, and just because the system launches in 2014 doesn't guarantee developers in currently unsupported areas will start caring about it more.

also another LOL at Major Nelson telling Angry Joe that he didn't know how hard it was to change things!

[Words iManifest]

Ugh...Finally I'll be able to play Killer Instinct, TitanFall and especially Crimson Dragon. I have a bad taste in my mouth but it'll be washed away relatively soon...Still keeping my PS4 pre order though. I don't really know how to express my feelings right now. Joy for all of the bs being removed but definitely still sour that all that drm even crossed their minds. 24 hour check in is gone but still burns.

[Greg2600]

Nice to know we won't have to worry about console DRM for another 8-10 years!

[kupomogli]

Why should it matter if they've changed? I totally take the stance that my loyalty is only there as long as theirs is, but since they haven't actually done anything to harm me, it's pretty much over as far as I'm concerned. We will always have to watch everybody - manufacturers, publishers, devs, self-publishers, everybody - so wanting somebody to be thinking of your best interests isn't really reasonable. They are always wanting to twist the knife in for money; this time it just turned out they couldn't wing it. And I don't think they should be punished for entertaining the thought, but not rewarded on the merit of change alone either.

Basically it's a wash in that regard.

In my list of "things the Xbox One still needs to prove" list I missed one, though - how are they going to do for Asian and Japanese developer support? Poland (i.e. the developers of The Witcher; you can't forget Poland)? I'm not really familiar with a lot of the developers (or titles) in the launch list but none of them seem to be non-American/non-European. It does seem reasonable to expect that with the delayed launch that there is going to be little happening there, and just because the system launches in 2014 doesn't guarantee developers in currently unsupported areas will start caring about it more.

also another LOL at Major Nelson telling Angry Joe that he didn't know how hard it was to change things!

Removing the 24 hour online restriction also removed the restrictions of those places being unable to use the system. They announced the Xbox One would be region free like the PS4.

About the Major Nelson, Angry Joe thing, yeah. Especially now that they have changed it to remove all that stuff. Major Nelson looks pretty stupid for making the comment that he did. I know it was PR bs, but we're not stupid and anyone watching already knew it was just PR talk, so he could have atleast answered that one straight.

Like I said above, I'm glad Microsoft made this announcement, but it's going to be funny watching the Microsoft fanboys put a spin on their defense of the DRM being why Xbox One is better than PS4 and Wii U. I've seen a few of them say Microsoft listens to their fans. They listen to their fans yet two days they stated they would not change anything and Xbox One is staying as it is. Gamestop preorder numbers get around the web and Microsoft immediately makes an announcement. This isn't towards 1 2 P, as he stated he didn't like the DRM but was still going to get it next year because of Halo, but others I've seen around the web.

[heybtbm]

The Consumers have spoken! The free market in action! Take that Socialists!

Very good news. Thank you Sony.

[JakeM]

Im really really really happy they did a 180 on this, but Im still not buying it new.

[kainemaxwell]

Stay classy, Micro$oft.

[Oobgarm]

Good news:

Now I can get Forza 5 and Killer Instinct and not feel like I'm supporting an ass-backward DRM policy.

Bad news:

I'm gonna be spending over $1100 on games this holiday. Fuck me.

[Lanzo]

Oh man, now I'm pumped. Just to clarify both systems will be region free? So I will be able to play games from any country on both systems? This seems unbelievable to me because I can't remember the last time systems were region free besides handhelds and the psp I believe.

[Lanzo]

Good news:

Now I can get Forza 5 and Killer Instinct and not feel like I'm supporting an ass-backward DRM policy.

Bad news:

I'm gonna be spending over $1100 on games this holiday. Fuck me.

Same situation here. Both systems pre ordered because I wanted the xbox and all my xbox live friends pre ordered ps4s.

[CDiablo]

Too late. Back track is too late. You had your chance after your press conference to change your plans at E3 but you didn't Microsoft. Go insert a Kinect up your anuses Microsoft.

Yah MS should have made a major change to their console that will effect the entire vision for the console in the course of 24 hours in th middle of a showcase. DERP!

[Rev. Link]

This is great! I'm pretty much okay with getting an Xbox One now! In a few years. After it's price dropped a few times. And I can find a used one. Becuase I still don't like MS and don't want to give them too much of my money.

I am legitimately happy that I'll be able to play some of their exclusives, though.

Just remember, kiddies, cover up that Kinect 2.0 when you're playing, and be sure to unplug the thing when you're not. Big Brother is still watching.

[Rickstilwell1]

I found another link to it as well http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

So yeah it's on their official website as well.

If anything I'm just glad this will keep Playstation 4 as a multiplatform option for the companies who might have been greedy about the resale thing. I am still willing to bet EA and Ubisoft will want to have their own used game sale restrictions.

[Ed Oscuro]

Haha, the system is now being called the "Xbox 180" or "Xbox One80." They'll never truly be able to live this one down, but I'm OK with that as long as it's jokes and not shafting people.

Removing the 24 hour online restriction also removed the restrictions of those places being unable to use the system. They announced the Xbox One would be region free like the PS4.
Yeah, I read it the same way. Since they've come out and called it region free it would be very silly for any region-related hassles to still exist (well, besides having the right power type).

Like I said above, I'm glad Microsoft made this announcement, but it's going to be funny watching the Microsoft fanboys put a spin on their defense of the DRM being why Xbox One is better than PS4 and Wii U.
Check this out if you want to have some heartburn:

Gizmodo - The Xbox One just got way worse... (http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
They really need to step up their game. For a long time Gizmodo (along with every Gawker-related site I've encountered) is your bottom-feeder of "news" sites. Apparently they don't just rehash PR releases without adding any reasonable insight, though, this time they add a rabidly anti-consumer screed on top of their cluelessness.

Has anybody inside the industry been cited (off the record, where things are best said) saying the Xbox One is their platform of choice? I really don't see it.

You know who else comes off like a worthless pile of Online Passes? The self-appointed consumers watchdog association (which is, unless I am very much mistaken, funded and backed by industry members), the "Entertainment Consumers Association." Rather than the Entertainment Software Association, which is forthright about being a lobby group, the ESA appears to maintain the charade of being a "for us, by us" type organization, but you wouldn't know that from their apparent dead silence on this or pretty much any other consumer rights (by consumer rights I do not mean "industry interests," just as one wouldn't say Chrysler is an "automotive consumer association" because they buy parts from MOPAR, and even third parties) issue.

They have some Forums, including subforums on Microsoft and "Issue Areas & Policy" including "digital rights." However nobody has posted in either of these subforums since long before the Xbox One was announced or we had some inkling of policy decisions. It's not like the ESA minds what you have to say - blatant spam threads in the forum indicate it's not even maintained, let alone watched by young, evolving consumer advocates for trending issues.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Thank you to the gaming public and gaming press for showing that the power of our collective voices can influence and prevent anti-consumer policies such as this.

It's really an amazing thing to see the impact that we had.

Also, good for Microsoft for waking the fuck up and making this a real competition again.

Where there's equal footing there's a greater drive for innovation and we all win.

I do believe that there is significant damage done for the launch window, but if they do trail early on there's no reason why they can't catch up early/mid console cycle.

I bet Don Mattrick isn't getting a bonus this quarter.



Gizmodo - The Xbox One just got way worse... (http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-got-way-worse-and-its-our-fault-514411905?utm_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_twitter&utm_source=gizmodo_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
They really need to step up their game. For a long time Gizmodo (along with every Gawker-related site I've encountered) is your bottom-feeder of "news" sites. Apparently they don't just rehash PR releases without adding any reasonable insight, though, this time they add a rabidly anti-consumer screed on top of their cluelessness.

The fact that the ONE and the PS4 (and the Wii-U for that matter) all allow for digital downloads of full-fledged commercial software, that is - nothing is going to be released on disc that isn't also going to be released on the console's respective marketplace totally invalidates his "non-DRM tied discs is a bad thing" position.

If you want the XBOX to be an all digital console, don't buy games on disc.

[RPG_Fanatic]

Oh man, now I'm pumped. Just to clarify both systems will be region free? So I will be able to play games from any country on both systems? This seems unbelievable to me because I can't remember the last time systems were region free besides handhelds and the psp I believe.

PS3 games have been region free since it came out in 2006.

[ProjectCamaro]

IMHO, if true, too little too late.

The damage has already been done.


Too late. Back track is too late. You had your chance after your press conference to change your plans at E3 but you didn't Microsoft. Go insert a Kinect up your anuses Microsoft.

Agreed, they've already lost my business. Just because they realized they were going to lose money doesn't change the fact that they don't trust their customers and tried everything they could to screw us over. It wasn't until they realized there were going to eat some of their own medicine that they changed it.

[Lanzo]

PS3 games have been region free since it came out in 2006.

Wow. Shows how much I pay attention. I must have missed out on a lot of ps3 games although I'm primarily a 360 gamer.

[Ed Oscuro]

Atlus managed to region lock Persona 4 on the PS3. Beyond that, nothing has been region locked.

[InsaneDavid]

Where are you finding these "pre-sale" numbers? I can only speak from anecdotal experience at the local Gamestops and Best Buy, but as of yesterday, both Gamestop stores were only "sold out" of launch Xbox Ones because the launch quantity they were given was literally like 20% of what Sony has told stores they will receive. So just based on preorders, my two local Gamestops have over 40 PS4 preorders each and 6-8 Xbox One preorders each. The local Best Buy had 12 (and still has half of them available) on the Xbox One and 35 of the PS4, only about five of which are still available. I'm sure this isn't unique considering what various GS employees have been posting on Neogaf and Cheapassgamer.

This. I unofficially speak for another retailer but XBox One presale allotment started at THREE units and has remained at THREE units. Word came today to open up the PS4 allotment as UNLIMITED until further notice.

[Bubble_Man]

I'm glad for those who enjoy titles that exclusively appear on Microsoft systems. However, this will not sway me back from choosing PS4. They were ready and willing to impose restrictive policies upon gamers a short while ago and only changed their minds because it became clear they were about to get their asses handed to them. Microsoft has already demonstrated itself to be a bunch of dictatorial control freaks. I'll support Sony and Nintendo's systems, but never again any system with "xbox" in its title.

[Az]

You'll still have to watch manufacturers, publishers, and basically everybody, as you did before (EA's online passes, Atlus region-locking a game to lock in JP customers but which accidentally torpedoed EU sales, etc.) but I don't see that as something reprehensible.

What's the story with that?

[kupomogli]

^ Everything will go back to the way it was with PS360. Online passes. There won't be any DRM restricting used games playing on your system.

[buzz_n64]

I just hope they port the new Killer Instinct to Windows because I'm not buying the Xbox One.

[PreZZ]

I wouldnt be surprised if they put all the drm bullshit later on, when the console eventually gets hacked. I dont trust them at all, and they lost me as a consumer FOREVER. F-U-C-K Y-O-U microsoft, arrogant bastards. Oh and fuck you Don Mattrick, your a total asshole, I hope you get fired.

[jonebone]

I wonder how many of the PS4 preorders were resellers who figured it'd be an easy flip since the Xbox1 was such a joke. Those people may be second guessing their preorders now, I expect sales across both to be pretty close.

I would love to see real data about how many preorders are gamers vs. resellers. I bet the Wii U was closer to 50/50 than people realize, and these could be the same way.

[Robocop2]

That's definitely good news. Nice to think we actually are heard when we complain. Though I didn't see anything about changing the "no indie developers can self publish" nonsense. Or did I miss that?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

That's definitely good news. Nice to think we actually are heard when we complain. Though I didn't see anything about changing the "no indie developers can self publish" nonsense. Or did I miss that?

Good point. Hopefully that's something that's rectifiable for indie developers in the long-term.

[Guyra]

This is good news, without a doubt! However, they have already done significant damage to themselves. If they were Final Fantasy characters, they'd constantly run around with the Confuse status, but just managed to break out of it at 10% HP. :p

They've need to go back on or change deals they've made with a significant number of corporations, and they've had nearly half a year with almost exclusively bad PR, which just got worse and worse the more they talked about the Xbox One. This has done a lot of irreversible damage. Although there will now be many more sales than before they did a 180 on these policies, there are still a lot of previously potential customers who will not return just because of this. They feel betrayed, or they feel they have seen the true face of Microsoft, and they won't feel better about them just because they changed half of the things to how it should be. And many of these potential customers wouldn't even if Microsoft suddenly did everything right. Because they've been angered, repulsed, or even scared to the point where Microsoft can't just go and say, "sorry, we'll change it for the better."

Microsoft showed that they didn't actually give a shit about the end user. The consumer. The gamer. They gave a shit about themselves and the publishers. They even cared somewhat for the developers and, to a short extent, the retailers. But they couldn't give a flying fuck about the you and me, and a lot of people got to see that. For themselves, the publishers, and the developers, there were some good things about the Xbox One. For retailers, not so much, but they weren't completely left out - which very well could've happened. But you and me, we got basically nothing but restrictions. Things we had taken for granted for decades now, they wanted to impose restrictions on. And none of these restrictions would actually serve us. They would serve Microsoft, publishers, and to some extent even retailers and developers. But they were in no way positive for us, the gamers. The people who were actually supposed to pay all of these other corporations money for this product.

So I'm glad that they finally understood how far up their ass they had their head. Even though it doesn't really show that they care for their customers, us "little people" - it does show that they might have learned from this experience that they aren't really much without them, and need to show us some respect. Because at the end of the day, we're the ones that make the decision of whether or not we want to give them our money or not. And we're not as stupid as they might think. Mostly. ;)


That said, there are still things I'd love to see changed. Or at least given proper answers to. Like the Kinect. Or regarding indie developers, as mentioned above. But half a bread's better than no bread - though other corporations are giving out both bread and jam for a lower price. I'll be going there.

[needler420]

From IGN: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/microsoft-reversing-xbox-one-internet-used-game-policies?abthid=51c213000e5afa555e00001a





Wow. Never expected this at all. You have to give Microsoft credit for admitting that they were wrong.

They aren't admitting they are wrong. They saw the amount of backlash and realized how bad sales would be. M$ would still screw you if they could.

[Ed Oscuro]

What's the story with that?
Look up Persona 4.

^ Everything will go back to the way it was with PS360. Online passes. There won't be any DRM restricting used games playing on your system.
Ironically EA has come out and said that they've ditched online passes because of consumer feedback (and apparently they weren't really helping the bottom line).

[Gamereviewgod]

Amazing now that this change happened, you see people coming out of nowhere in droves to support the previous model. Where were they before?

The only loss is the family share plan, which still could be implemented down the line. Microsoft had people invested in the idea this was somehow "the future," when it was so many steps backward. It's crazy how fast marketing can work, but thankfully, most saw through it.

[WCP]

Obviously, this bombshell is great news for console gaming in general. However, for me personally, this is extremely disappointing.

Why ?


Simple. The Xbox Family Share Plan got thrown out with the bathwater.


Even though I started out as extremely anti-Xbone, as I read more and more about the Family Share Plan, I actually did a 180. I went from buying a PS4 at launch, to instead planning on buying TWO xbones to fully take advantage of the sharing plan. One of those Xbones was going to be used with me in a group with 9 other gamers, and all of us were going to be in each others respective groups. We would have 10 gamers that would have been sharing games with each other, and the amount of money that I would have been spending on games would have been DRAMATICALLY reduced. Even with all the horrible DRM and restrictions, I would have been better off financially with the Xbone Family Share Plan.


Of course, now the Family Share is off the table. The baby got thrown out with the bathwater. Now, my interest in the XB1 has plummeted to levels unseen before. I already felt the Xbone was significantly underpowered in comparison to the PS4. I already didn't want to have a Kinect watching me all day and night. However, I was willing to look past all that crap because the Family Plan could have been so glorious. Now that it's gone, I can't look past all the shortcomings. The system is still underpowered, and the Kinect still has to be plugged in. The launch lineup is still relatively lame.

So, just go get a PS4 right ?


Well, if infamous Second Son wasn't delayed into 2014, yes, I would have loved to get a PS4 at launch. But infamous is 2014, and the actual launch lineup for Sony looks exceedingly lame. As bad as the Xbone launch lineup is, I think the PS4 one is even a bit worse. I've never been a big fan of Killzone, and Knack should be a $29.99 game. DriveClub does nothing for me. The Witness by Jonathan Blow looks interesting, but it's not going to get me to spend $450 this Xmas.


So, I'll be retreating back to my PC games, and PS3 and a little XB360, and simply wait for a "real" killer app to arrive in 2014.

[Griking]

This news is interesting, but it doesn't change the fact that the Kinect is required, and always watching and listening when the machine's on. You can "pause" it, but that is entirely meaningless. When you can buy it and play it without the camera plugged in I *may* change my mind, but probably not. I love my 360 but with this mess and Windows 8, they lost this paying customer. Microsoft and its smug executives can keep their Spybox.

It's been announced already that the Kinect can be turned off completely.

[WCP]

It's been announced already that the Kinect can be turned off completely.

when was that announced ?


The last I heard, is that it can be put "on pause", but you still had to have it turned on and connected.

[CDiablo]

when was that announced ?


The last I heard, is that it can be put "on pause", but you still had to have it turned on and connected.

They announced shortly after E3 that you can put your xbox in low power state where it listens for "XBOX ON" command or you can put it in off state where everything is unpowered. You can also turn off all Kinect functionality via the system management area and you can turn the camera towards a wall.

Im suprised with how many people are saying that they are never buying XBOX because they tried this rediculousness. Both Sony and MS have a well documented history of screwing over customers, especially Sony when it comes to DRM. I think its great for a company saying we listened to feedback(via messages as well as $$$votes) and changed their entire platform within 30 days of announcement.

In the end I am afraid that publishers will take games and enforce their own DRM. Each game comes with a 1 time use install pass, which is tied to your XBL/PSN account. Cant, loan/sell/trade just like a Steam game. The main reason Xbone tried this hybrid DRM idea was to appease publishers(1st), gamers and retailers.

[WCP]

Im surprised with how many people are saying that they are never buying XBOX because they tried this ridiculousness. Both Sony and MS have a well documented history of screwing over customers, especially Sony when it comes to DRM. I think its great for a company saying we listened to feedback(via messages as well as $$$votes) and changed their entire platform within 30 days of announcement.



The fact that MS would just reverse course like that, because the pre-orders were so weak, shows that they don't really have convictions in their belief of this always online digital world. If they are so quick to change direction now, why wouldn't they be quick to change it in the future?

They can't be trusted. Of course, no megalithic corporation can be trusted, but by doing this 180, they are just re-enforcing that concept.

[Ed Oscuro]

Obviously, this bombshell is great news for console gaming in general. However, for me personally, this is extremely disappointing.
Aside from the ignored costs of losing most of the value of a game - which isn't an issue for everybody - and the potential privacy issues with mandating that you must have share members on your friends list - I don't see what the Family Share plan was supposed to do that was good for consumers. A lot of people seem to think that Family Share would let more than two people play the game at a time, but I don't see any evidence that was the case. Family Share would have quickly become a bone of contention with Family Share plan members trying to wrest control of that bone from each other, especially with multiplayer titles. And I can't say the thought of having to blast through a great game quickly, or wait until after 5 or even 9 weeks (depending on whether there is a "default owner" who buys the game) to come into rotation on a game I actually wanted to play passed through all the other plan members, is really very enticing.

I can't even begin to imagine how convoluted and nasty negotiations would become for this. Everybody would have to agree to buy games on the same day and start sharing them and you'd still get a lot of people trying to welsh on the deal. "Oh, it was my week to buy Ryse II...sorry bro, spent it on hash, but I'm good for next week."

I realize it sucks not to be able to digitally share a game, in theory, and some people have quality friends who wouldn't do that crap. But I know it would have happened and in big enough numbers to make Xbox One a painful experience for many.

EDIT: Reportedly, somewhere in this sad, sad post by a Microsoftie (http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read) it's stated that Family Share is just demo sharing. LOL.

The awesometastic Jim Sterling rebuts these beliefs here (http://www.destructoid.com/an-industry-that-needs-xbox-one-drm-is-a-failed-industry-256643.phtml).

[kupomogli]

Im suprised with how many people are saying that they are never buying XBOX because they tried this rediculousness. Both Sony and MS have a well documented history of screwing over customers, especially Sony when it comes to DRM. I think its great for a company saying we listened to feedback(via messages as well as $$$votes) and changed their entire platform within 30 days of announcement.

All they've done is a simple patch to switch how things work. They're not rebuilding the model. This is why you need internet during the install so the system can first update. Microsoft did not change it because people complaining. They changed it because they saw how poor they were doing in preorders when Gamestop announced preorder numbers. If the preorder numbers showed that Xbox One was in the lead or not as far behind as they were, you can be sure Microsoft wouldn't have done anything to the model and it would have remained the same. Microsoft had over a month of people complaining and a week longer after E3, yet sales was the key factor in their decision. They're not doing it for the fans and they didn't care about fan feedback.

Also every company screws over customers. Not just Sony and Microsoft, but Nintendo, EA, Capcom, Square Enix, etc. Out of the current big three, Sony is the lesser of the three evils, then Nintendo, then Microsoft. This whole online no used game DRM put Microsoft far ahead of the others.


Look up Persona 4.

Ironically EA has come out and said that they've ditched online passes because of consumer feedback (and apparently they weren't really helping the bottom line).

Yeah, but other developers do it as well. Tecmo Koei, Sony, and Ubisoft for example. Sony did announce no online passes for the PS4 only because you'll be required to pay for PS+ to play online, but there's still the others. I don't see the issue in online passes because it's a way to make money off people who buy used. Those people still get the full game, just not access to the online. I find no issue with this because it's a way for developers to make money hopefully without day one DLC which is single player content. Once the online gets shut off when they shut down server access, doesn't matter because we still have the full single player experience as well as whatever offline multiplayer is on there. Even if you're using peer to peer they're still atleast finding players and connecting you and the other players together, so regardless you're using their servers, so you should pay money if you've bought a used game to play online, as they're keeping online access open and it's certainly not free, although not very expensive either.

[TonyTheTiger]

The awesometastic Jim Sterling rebuts these beliefs here (http://www.destructoid.com/an-industry-that-needs-xbox-one-drm-is-a-failed-industry-256643.phtml).

I'm so happy to see someone out there willing to say "let 'em fail." If they can't survive doing business the way they have been and, for whatever reason, staunchly refuse to adapt then they deserve what they get. And the industry would be better for it as publishers that do know how to sustain themselves replace the ones that crumble. I'm sick of companies (regardless of the industry) reaping the benefits of capitalism and then screaming bloody murder when capitalism functions as intended.

[heybtbm]

All they've done is a simple patch to switch how things work. They're not rebuilding the model. This is why you need internet during the install so the system can first update. Microsoft did not change it because people complaining. They changed it because they saw how poor they were doing in preorders when Gamestop announced preorder numbers. If the preorder numbers showed that Xbox One was in the lead or not as far behind as they were, you can be sure Microsoft wouldn't have done anything to the model and it would have remained the same. Microsoft had over a month of people complaining and a week longer after E3, yet sales was the key factor in their decision. They're not doing it for the fans and they didn't care about fan feedback.

1.) Please cite the source of your "It's only a software update" statement.

2.) Please describe the difference between "doing it for the fans" and "doing it to make more money" from a company's perspective. Think hard about that one.

[kupomogli]

1.) Please cite the source of your "It's only a software update" statement.

It only came up "after" the change in DRM policy that there's a day one update. When I say after, I say immediately after. This day one update was never announced prior to that. But Microsoft is saying the day one update isn't to remove DRM which is probably bullshit. The system design is probably already done and the update is for that very reason. Microsoft is probably in defense mode by stating this day one update is not because of DRM because of the Angry Joe/Major Nelson interview where Joe said they could just change it in an update if they wanted to and Major Nelson seemed a bit angry with his reply saying that's not possible, did he work on the console, etc etc. PR just to defend a well known and liked Xbox community manager from looking like a dumbass/douchebag in front of hundreds of thousands of people that have seen the video and then they see the news that DRM has been reversed only days later.

http://i.imgur.com/0EgKctz.jpg


2.) Please describe the difference between "doing it for the fans" and "doing it to make more money" from a company's perspective. Think hard about that one.

Let me rephrase what I stated then. They are doing it for fans but only because they're going to lose a ton of money by not doing it. The fans month of bashing the Xbox One did nothing to move them into this position. They even made a statement a couple days ago that the Xbox One DRM policy would not change and it would remain as is. Microsoft's limited preorder amount only finally capped at some Gamestop stores, Microsoft announced the removal of all DRM, then raises the preorder cap at Amazon and Gamestop. If you put two and two together, Microsoft knew they weren't doing well in preorders and did this because PS4 was destroying the Xbox One.

If the Xbox One day one edition sold well, they wouldn't have backpedaled and made the announcement. So they did it for the money, not for the fans. But in order to actually get the money they had to put their fans in front of their ambitions so it just happened to work out for the fans.

[PreZZ]

I predicted that Microsoft would abandon all the DRM, and now I predict this: MS will launch a new sku WITHOUT kinect for 399$. Kudos to everyone sticking it to microsoft by not pre ordering the xbox one.

[Bojay1997]

I predicted that Microsoft would abandon all the DRM, and now I predict this: MS will launch a new sku WITHOUT kinect for 399$. Kudos to everyone sticking it to microsoft by not pre ordering the xbox one.

Yes, you and Michael Pachter.

[WCP]

Aside from the ignored costs of losing most of the value of a game - which isn't an issue for everybody - and the potential privacy issues with mandating that you must have share members on your friends list - I don't see what the Family Share plan was supposed to do that was good for consumers. A lot of people seem to think that Family Share would let more than two people play the game at a time, but I don't see any evidence that was the case. Family Share would have quickly become a bone of contention with Family Share plan members trying to wrest control of that bone from each other, especially with multiplayer titles. And I can't say the thought of having to blast through a great game quickly, or wait until after 5 or even 9 weeks (depending on whether there is a "default owner" who buys the game) to come into rotation on a game I actually wanted to play passed through all the other plan members, is really very enticing.

I can't even begin to imagine how convoluted and nasty negotiations would become for this. Everybody would have to agree to buy games on the same day and start sharing them and you'd still get a lot of people trying to welsh on the deal. "Oh, it was my week to buy Ryse II...sorry bro, spent it on hash, but I'm good for next week."

I realize it sucks not to be able to digitally share a game, in theory, and some people have quality friends who wouldn't do that crap. But I know it would have happened and in big enough numbers to make Xbox One a painful experience for many.

EDIT: Reportedly, somewhere in this sad, sad post by a Microsoftie (http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read) it's stated that Family Share is just demo sharing. LOL.

The awesometastic Jim Sterling rebuts these beliefs here (http://www.destructoid.com/an-industry-that-needs-xbox-one-drm-is-a-failed-industry-256643.phtml).

The Family Share plan would only work correctly if all 10 members of your family share completely bought into the concept, and if the same 10 members all filled each other's 10 members spots. So, it would be a bit difficult to find 9 other gamers, that would agree to have their 9 open spots filled by that exact same group of gamers. But if you did find a group that was in it to win it, so to speak, it would have been absolutely amazing.

I could go into much greater detail about all of this, but it's a moot point now, so why bother.



Also, I will wholeheartedly admit that the Family Sharing Plan would have only lasted maybe a single year, if that, and then the course would be reversed, much in the same way that Sony dropped it from 5 PS3's to 2 PS3's, to put your digital downloads on, because people were abusing it.


However, while the Family Share Plan did work, it would have been absolutely glorious, and it's really disappointing that the idea got scrapped. Again, I will admit that console gaming overall, and consumers rights overall won out with Microsoft's 180. Unfortunately, my bank account didn't win out. I would have saved a metric fuck ton of money with that Family Share Plan, but no need to worry about it anymore, because it's all moot now.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, you and Michael Pachter.
Not sure if serious...last I heard Pachter thought bundling Kinect with every console was A Good Thing.

@ WCP: Agreed that everybody needs to be on the same page - and I don't think that's realistic to expect from gaming buds at large.

But the big thing here is that apparently it was just for demos.

I can't imagine it would have been otherwise. Letting people share their games in that way could be worse for developers than what we have now, where game trades and sales require moving the actual disc and which makes it less attractive (to say the least!) to share games with somebody nearby, let alone with somebody on the other side of the world. If you could iron out the horse-trading issues I mentioned above, game companies would stand to lose a lot of money from trading groups...so it simply can't have been implemented the way you thought it was. Basically there was going to be a gray cloud in that Family Share Plan idea, and it turned out to be "oh, it's not the full version, lol"

[Ed Oscuro]

Microsoft did not change it because people complaining.
Chiming in here - we really don't know exactly what they're thinking, but some of it seems pretty obvious. Yeah, I'd agree that everybody wants to take advantage if they can, but many company plan can balance this with being socially responsible or empathetic enough to realize "hey, our customers are people too." As heybtbm says, it's not a simple either/or proposition; the spinning seems kind of needless. Lots of things can coexist with being a shitty or great games company, from the standpoint of the gamers and from the standpoint of making money. Having idle fantasies about making lots of money doesn't mean "oh, I'll just rape and pillage my way there, nobody will mind" is what anybody really thinks is going to happen.

Well, unless you've been going to the Don King school of games promotion, anyway.
http://gossipextra.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/don_king.jpg
"My business scheme is brilliant because it only requires one person be stomped to death! It probably won't even be you or one of your loved ones!"

I don't see the issue in online passes because it's a way to make money off people who buy used.
The flip side of this is that your game loses most of its value when you strip out the online pass. I don't know anybody who wants to collect Battlefield 2 (and later) PC game boxes.

And this really is the flip side of the rather simple model of human reasoning you've been presenting here. It's not at all unreasonable for people to say "you know, I have expectations about the things I buy." For example, physical game media actually conferring some benefits like they have for the last thirty years.

People said NO to the TI-99/4a, a relatively full-featured line with reasonable graphics, but which didn't allow users the choice of third-party software or user programming. That system wasn't sold by some shady boxing promoter, either, but by America's Most Loved Man himself, Bill Cosby!
http://www.99er.net/download2/uploads/TI99_BillCosby_commerical.mp4_000002474.jpg
"What do you mean digital rights management? You buy the keyboard, you put the thing in the guy right there, it'll be around forever, awwwk awwwk awwkk"

[Bojay1997]

Not sure if serious...last I heard Pachter thought bundling Kinect with every console was A Good Thing.

@ WCP: Agreed that everybody needs to be on the same page - and I don't think that's realistic to expect from gaming buds at large.

But the big thing here is that apparently it was just for demos.

I can't imagine it would have been otherwise. Letting people share their games in that way could be worse for developers than what we have now, where game trades and sales require moving the actual disc and which makes it less attractive (to say the least!) to share games with somebody nearby, let alone with somebody on the other side of the world. If you could iron out the horse-trading issues I mentioned above, game companies would stand to lose a lot of money from trading groups...so it simply can't have been implemented the way you thought it was. Basically there was going to be a gray cloud in that Family Share Plan idea, and it turned out to be "oh, it's not the full version, lol"

I'm very serious. http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/zfghde/pach-attack--drm-derailed The point is, it's not like people didn't see this coming. Microsoft really only had two choices, reverse their DRM/Every 24 hour on-line plan or lose in a massive landslide to Sony. The preorder numbers spoke for themselves and now that Microsoft has reversed itself, there is a very real competition for who will lead this generation.

I am still curious as to what availability of the Xbox One is going to look like at launch given the limited numbers of pre-orders various chains have been permitted to take even before the reversal. As of today, my local Gamestop still wasn't allowed to take more Xbox One preorders beyond the 8 they had and word from corporate was that they could continue taking PS4 preorders despite the fact that they already had over 40. A lack of supply and the additional $100 price tag coupled with the residual impact of the bad PR could damage Xbox One long term, but that's something only time will make clearer.

[Greg2600]

This was an EA-led cabal to bilk the consumer for more money.

[kupomogli]

The flip side of this is that your game loses most of its value when you strip out the online pass. I don't know anybody who wants to collect Battlefield 2 (and later) PC game boxes.

It doesn't lose most of its value because most of the games that have online pass, or most games in general, single and multiplayer offline what comprises most of the game. When those games go offline, you'll still have that content.

I will agree games like Battlefield are practically online only, but you're paying for the disc and the single player content. You're a different user that could be using the online portion years and years after the game has been released. So that means years and years of the server running would have built up a cost, regardless if it's being used or not. Maybe developers should put eight to ten years of server cost out of their budget so they don't have to charge gamers for online pass.

Although an online pass doesn't mean that they'll keep the online running. You have dick publishers like D3 with online passes and paid online DLC, and they shut down the servers to WKC2 only a year and a half after release. Not a lot by Call of Duty standards, but there were over 100 guilds 1000+ daily players on the games servers. There are servers that are still established with less than 50 players, games that have been out since the beginning of this generation. This is one good thing about Xbox Live Gold since all servers during the generation remain activate and you don't have douchebag publishers like D3 screwing an entire fanbase over.

[Zama]

Interesting, seems Microsoft haven't lost all their senses yet @_@ Still, this is good news, and a quick turnaround from what Microsoft has been working on for the past couple of weeks.

[Collector_Gaming]

So after very quickly skimming through posts.

What did we learn people.

Microsoft did not do this because people were angry at them... Microsoft did this as a way out to try and make sure they keep on making cash.
They don't care about the customer but more about whats in the customers bank account. And also to make sure the share holders of microsofts stock are happy
They knew if this was gonna plummet as it was doing. It was gonna cause a problem within the microsoft stock which would have hurt even them as big as they are very much so.

Wish there was such thing as a honest earning company. But then again they would never last in such a harsh environment consisting of such big names in the field with share holders breathing down their necks every single second. This is why I hate running a business that runs its business model on the idea of selling stock shares to investors to create funds to go big right out of the gate. Like the old saying hit the ground running.

[Ed Oscuro]

CliffyB - keeping it professional:
https://twitter.com/therealcliffyb/status/347843973420830720
I think that you shouldn't be calling other people professional parasites when you have just spent a lot of time defending a parasitic vision of the professional's relationship with the consumer.

I'm very serious. http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/zfghde/pach-attack--drm-derailed
I thought you were saying that Pachter is predicting a Kinect-less SKU, as I mentioned in my post. Your whole point afterwards isn't speaking at all to what I was commenting on.

It doesn't lose most of its value because most of the games that have online pass, or most games in general, single and multiplayer offline what comprises most of the game. When those games go offline, you'll still have that content.
Perhaps "most" is incorrect, but it certainly alienates potential buyers - both at retail (because you forego the possibility of transferring the right to use online play) and for resale (you lose all the players who had the same qualms the retail disinterested might have and you lose people who are primarily multiplayer focused).

Your comment that games have a sizable single-player focus, while certainly true of you and me given our notorious gaming habits (you play RPGs still, right?) doesn't ring true for the game industry as a whole.

Of course, the loss of value at retail causes many users to attach less value to products at retail - and that can translate to lost sales for the original seller.

As the many people saying "too little, too late" of Microsoft's DRM reversal show, a game having good properties is alone not enough to make the sale in many cases. That two games represent totally different possibilities doesn't mean that people will view them as not being relatively weighted for value - people will often simply disregard a game, and even an entire platform's exclusives, if it carries some feature they consider important. It might not be a completely rational decision but it does allow them to easily express their preferences.

[XYXZYZ]

I wonder if Microsoft planned this policy reversal from the very beginning... there's a conspiracy afoot, I tells ya.

[Lanzo]

The initial update is not even a point worth noting. Many games need patching anyways and blu ray players need to as well in some cases. Microsoft had a different idea and it backfired because most people are afraid of change. There were some cool things about their cloud and family share plan but I feel like it wasn't presented well and many people jumped on the ps4 before they were even sure of the cloud features the xbox one offered. Also, was microsoft the first one to come out with their details? I kind of curious if my Sony may have also had a drm plan and ditched it at the last second. There was so much speculation way before E3. I'm definately happy about the changes they made but all my friends are committed to the ps4 which means I have both preordered. And how about those NBA finals?

[Bojay1997]

The initial update is not even a point worth noting. Many games need patching anyways and blu ray players need to as well in some cases. Microsoft had a different idea and it backfired because most people are afraid of change. There were some cool things about their cloud and family share plan but I feel like it wasn't presented well and many people jumped on the ps4 before they were even sure of the cloud features the xbox one offered. Also, was microsoft the first one to come out with their details? I kind of curious if my Sony may have also had a drm plan and ditched it at the last second. There was so much speculation way before E3. I'm definately happy about the changes they made but all my friends are committed to the ps4 which means I have both preordered. And how about those NBA finals?

I don't buy that people simply opposed the Xbox One DRM and 24 hour check in requirements because they "are afraid of change". Consumers have quickly embraced all sorts of change in the past decade from Netflix to the iPad to digital cable and satellite TV to broadband Internet to paying $100 a month for a smartphone. The difference between Xbox One and those changes is that there were no real benefits to the consumer for what Microsoft wanted to do. Indeed, I would submit to you that DRM and 24 hour check in has no benefit to the consumer and that Microsoft and publishers/developers can still implement games with cloud co-processing and frankly, they could still pursue a family sharing plan if they wanted to. This was simply a case of Microsoft overreaching and not a case of Microsoft failing to communicate the benefits of what they were trying to do as Microsoft and some media outlets have tried to claim.

[Lanzo]

I don't buy that people simply opposed the Xbox One DRM and 24 hour check in requirements because they "are afraid of change". Consumers have quickly embraced all sorts of change in the past decade from Netflix to the iPad to digital cable and satellite TV to broadband Internet to paying $100 a month for a smartphone. The difference between Xbox One and those changes is that there were no real benefits to the consumer for what Microsoft wanted to do. Indeed, I would submit to you that DRM and 24 hour check in has no benefit to the consumer and that Microsoft and publishers/developers can still implement games with cloud co-processing and frankly, they could still pursue a family sharing plan if they wanted to. This was simply a case of Microsoft overreaching and not a case of Microsoft failing to communicate the benefits of what they were trying to do as Microsoft and some media outlets have tried to claim.

That may be true. For me it drm was upsetting but I assumed that was the turn gaming was taking. When Sony announced the opposite I had this feeling that Microsoft might not stick to their DRM just by the fact that almost all my xbox friends were going ps4 and money is a big factor. I will probably end up buying multiplayer games for ps4 and single player games for xbox.

[Collector_Gaming]

The initial update is not even a point worth noting. Many games need patching anyways and blu ray players need to as well in some cases. Microsoft had a different idea and it backfired because most people are afraid of change. There were some cool things about their cloud and family share plan but I feel like it wasn't presented well and many people jumped on the ps4 before they were even sure of the cloud features the xbox one offered. Also, was microsoft the first one to come out with their details? I kind of curious if my Sony may have also had a drm plan and ditched it at the last second. There was so much speculation way before E3. I'm definately happy about the changes they made but all my friends are committed to the ps4 which means I have both preordered. And how about those NBA finals?

I feel there is still a group of us who are still unsure about cloud services in general. I don't use any cloud service at all even if its free. I personally like to keep all my files to myself myself only. Once it goes on a public share network even with "privacy" settings its still easily hackable and traceable. Not that I have anything to hide really. its just the knowledge out there. *puts tin foil hat on and keeps away from big brother*

[thegamezmaster]

Too late. Back track is too late. You had your chance after your press conference to change your plans at E3 but you didn't Microsoft. Go insert a Kinect up your anuses Microsoft.

LMAO! Sounds like Microsoft doesn't know what gamers want. Also sounds like damage control.

[buzz_n64]

LMAO! Sounds like Microsoft doesn't know what gamers want. Also sounds like damage control.

Well, that and arrogance. They're going to set up the restrictions and spying, and we're just going to take it because we want to play their games. This will be a PS4 generation. Personally I'm leaning towards a Wii U because of the type of games I prefer, but I know most people would eventually choose the PS4.

[needler420]

SEGA left the console making industry when they didn't even deserve to.

Microsoft needs to see their way out of the gaming industry like SEGA did. They have done more bad for the video game industry then good.

The only thing I thank them for is competition for other console and game makers.


I left M$ during the launch xbox360 when they extended their warranty because of bad failure rates. The week the PS3 slim released Sept.2009 I sold off the xbox 360 and games to a friends for $90 bucks. Which just had come back from a RROD repair.

Never regretted it till this day. I regret getting rid of other gaming stuff but not xbox 360. You will never see me support a company like Microsoft after what they attempt to do.

I think some of you are so naïve and in the palm of M$. It's like to them they think they will stop the DRM after the backlash and some people seem to think it's all perfect now and things will be fine.

I hope M$ does something to alter or amend their terms of service in the future, I really want to see the people who put so much trust in them get screwed out of something related to how greedy and morally corrupt business practices they have. Hopefully in the consoles life cycle they do something again to screw people out of the DRM issues.


I kind of wish they stuck with their DRM policy. That way in ten years when people still can play their PS4 games but yet no one can access xbox live service and they lost all their games. Then that would put Microsoft out of the industry for good.

[PreZZ]

Has much as I hate microsoft right now, I really enjoyed the original box and the 360... the world of consoles would be lame without them after sega died. Man I wish there was someway sega could get back in the console market...

[Bojay1997]

SEGA left the console making industry when they didn't even deserve to.

Microsoft needs to see their way out of the gaming industry like SEGA did. They have done more bad for the video game industry then good.

The only thing I thank them for is competition for other console and game makers.


I left M$ during the launch xbox360 when they extended their warranty because of bad failure rates. The week the PS3 slim released Sept.2009 I sold off the xbox 360 and games to a friends for $90 bucks. Which just had come back from a RROD repair.

Never regretted it till this day. I regret getting rid of other gaming stuff but not xbox 360. You will never see me support a company like Microsoft after what they attempt to do.

I think some of you are so naïve and in the palm of M$. It's like to them they think they will stop the DRM after the backlash and some people seem to think it's all perfect now and things will be fine.

I hope M$ does something to alter or amend their terms of service in the future, I really want to see the people who put so much trust in them get screwed out of something related to how greedy and morally corrupt business practices they have. Hopefully in the consoles life cycle they do something again to screw people out of the DRM issues.


I kind of wish they stuck with their DRM policy. That way in ten years when people still can play their PS4 games but yet no one can access xbox live service and they lost all their games. Then that would put Microsoft out of the industry for good.

You really are a terrible person. Wishing that other people get screwed by a company is something only a sociopath would want.