Sega Saturn Launch was much better than you think it was....

[WCP]

Ok, first off, let me make an argument, that 3 of the 10 best Saturn games (all-time) were available at launch. Also, a couple of other decent games were available.




Virtua Fighter - This game was packed in with the system. Here me out on this... Most people remember the original VF on Saturn being somewhat of a disappointment. Most praised VF Remix as being a much better game. Here's the thing. Play both of them today for an hour each. You'll quickly realize that the original VF holds up WAY better than Remix or VF2 or any of the other 3D fighters on Saturn. VF, with all it's technical difficulties, still to this day is an AMAZING game, and you got it free with your $399.99 Saturn purchase.. Yeah, ouch. Regardless of the price of the Saturn, Virtua Fighter, to me, is easily one of the 10 best Saturn games, and it was available day 1.

Daytona USA - Now here is some freaking next-level power. Daytona again, had technical issues. There was lots of pop up and other minor issues, but overall, again, play the game itself, and tell me how much it holds up today. I think this game stands the test of time, warts and all. Again, this game belongs in the top 10 all-time of Saturn games, and it was available at launch.

Panzer Dragoon - I don't even need to argue for this one. Everybody should already know that this game is top 10 all-time Saturn material.




Bug! - Ok, contrary to popular belief, I think this game was actually available at launch. If it wasn't on launch day, it was within about 5 or 6 business days of launch, cause I remember this game very early. I'm not going to try to make an argument that Bug is one of the best Saturn games, but it wasn't a total piece of crap. It's a pretty solid game, especially for somebody playing it in the Summer of 1995.

Clockwork Knight - I actually feel like Clockwork Knight is a pretty damn good Saturn game. Way too easy ? Yes, absolutely. Ridiculously easy. Still, if you avoid using continues, and try to just stick to the base lives, it's pretty decent. It's worth a play-through. It's not very long, and the bosses are mostly entertaining and unique. Music and sound effects are decent. Again, way too easy, but not a horrible game by any stretch, and a decent little 2D platformer to mess with

Worldwide Soccer - Ok, this one wasn't exactly the best game to come along. Wasn't totally horrible if you like soccer games, but definitely nothing to get excited about


Astal - This game may have come out a week or two after launch, I can't remember, but it can still be kinda considered a launch game. It was VERY early in the arrival of the Saturn in the US. Pretty beautiful game. Amazing music. Gameplay is decent, but can get very frustrating. This is one of those love them or hate them type of games. I happen to love it, but I can understand somebody hating it. The gameplay can be very frustrating at times. Still, very beautiful game with great 2D visuals and awesome music.






3 of the 7 launch games are amazing games, worthy of a top 10 of all-time Saturn list : Daytona USA, Panzer Dragoon & Virtua Fighter
3 of the 7 launch games are interesting, solid, next-generation launch games: Bug!, Astal & Clockwork Knight
1 of the 7 launch games was an unremarkable soccer game that was halfway decent at the time of release


Not a bad launch if you really think about it.

[Polygon]

The launch titles were not the problem with the Saturn's launch to be honest.

[WCP]

The launch titles were not the problem with the Saturn's launch to be honest.


Certainly, it was Sega pissing off all the other retailers with the surprise launch, etc, etc.

But let's not worry about that. That has been discussed to death. Seriously, consider the quality level of the 7 launch games:

Virtua Fighter
Daytona USA
Astal
Bug!
Worldwide Soccer
Clockwork Knight
Panzer Dragoon




That was a pretty strong lineup if you ask me (yes, I know Astal came maybe a week later or something, but still well in the launch window)

[Melf]

Neither Bug! nor Astal were launch titles. IIRC, Bug! arrived about 2 months after the launch, with Astal following shortly thereafter. Worldwide Soccer came later, so there were only Virtua Fighter, Clockwork Knight, Daytona USA and Panzer Dragoon.

That was the problem with the launch. Since it took everyone by surprise, there were no games but those Sega had near completion that could be released. You could tell that even Sega was pushing games out the door by the quality of Virtua Fighter and Daytona. Both those titles needed more time in development.

[WCP]

Neither Bug! nor Astal were launch titles. IIRC, Bug! arrived about 2 months after the launch, with Astal following shortly thereafter. Worldwide Soccer came later, so there were only Virtua Fighter, Clockwork Knight, Daytona USA and Panzer Dragoon.

That was the problem with the launch. Since it took everyone by surprise, there were no games but those Sega had near completion that could be released. You could tell that even Sega was pushing games out the door by the quality of Virtua Fighter and Daytona. Both those titles needed more time in development.


I could have sworn that there was 6 total games. Bug! and Worldwide Soccer was the 5th and 6th game.

I'm nearly 99 percent positive that Worldwide Soccer was there on launch day. I'm not too sure about Bug, but I'm 99 percent positive that Bug wasn't two full months later. Maybe two weeks later.

I'll try to do a bit of investigating and report back. Don't believe all the wikipedias and Giant Bomb's and stuff. They are way off sometimes regarding accuracy.

[gameofyou]

I bought a Saturn in 1995, and man, I played the crap out of Daytona USA for months! People always complain about the graphics, but the gameplay is perfect. I still think its a fun game, even playing it today.

[ShinobiMan]

If my memory serves me well, Bug! did not launch but rather was released in the weeks following. Astral did not release til sometime later, months seperate.

At the time in 1994 before the release of Playstation, the Sega Saturn was a marvel to behold. And yes, Virtua Fighter holds up remarkably well!

[Melf]

I could have sworn that there was 6 total games. Bug! and Worldwide Soccer was the 5th and 6th game.

I'm nearly 99 percent positive that Worldwide Soccer was there on launch day. I'm not too sure about Bug, but I'm 99 percent positive that Bug wasn't two full months later. Maybe two weeks later.

I'll try to do a bit of investigating and report back. Don't believe all the wikipedias and Giant Bomb's and stuff. They are way off sometimes regarding accuracy.

I bought the Saturn at launch (with no games) and a friend of mine bought the three launch games (with no Saturn), which is why I remember. I didn't use Wikipedia or anything, but my memory might fail me and WWS may have been there. None of us were soccer fans so we may have just ignored it, but I'm pretty sure it came out later.

[Polygon]

Certainly, it was Sega pissing off all the other retailers with the surprise launch, etc, etc.

But let's not worry about that. That has been discussed to death. Seriously, consider the quality level of the 7 launch games:

Virtua Fighter
Daytona USA
Astal
Bug!
Worldwide Soccer
Clockwork Knight
Panzer Dragoon




That was a pretty strong lineup if you ask me (yes, I know Astal came maybe a week later or something, but still well in the launch window)

I can't argue with that.

[wiggyx]

Certainly, it was Sega pissing off all the other retailers with the surprise launch, etc, etc.

But let's not worry about that. That has been discussed to death. Seriously, consider the quality level of the 7 launch games:

Virtua Fighter
Daytona USA
Astal
Bug!
Worldwide Soccer
Clockwork Knight
Panzer Dragoon




That was a pretty strong lineup if you ask me (yes, I know Astal came maybe a week later or something, but still well in the launch window)

Panzer and Astal are the only games on that list which manage to get more than "meh" in my opinion.

[Atarileaf]

Weird, I always thought Sega Saturn was a car division.

[ProjectCamaro]

I was 12 years old when the Saturn came out and my parents bought one for the family for Christmas that year. I remember playing Panzer Dragoon for hours.

Actually Bug! was the first game I ever bought on my own with my own money. I really enjoyed playing it for hours on end.

[WCP]

Panzer and Astal are the only games on that list which manage to get more than "meh" in my opinion.


I think you need to try Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA again. To me, both of those games really stand the test of time. Not graphically, but gameplay wise. both still have great gameplay, and even better music. Also, I think Virtua Fighter, while very flawed technically, I think it's simpler look holds up better over the years. Daytona is one of those games that you'll appreciate more when you see the intricacy of the gameplay that takes a number of hours to notice. You can't just pop it in and play for 20 minutes and see the beauty of that game.

[FieryReign]

I think you need to try Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA again. To me, both of those games really stand the test of time. No they don't. Virtual Fighter 2 is a much better overall game so I'd rather play that.

Daytona was a fun game for it's time but there are better racing games on the same system. And it's quite disappointing if you've ever played it in the arcade. I played the hell out of the arcade and Saturn port.

Sounds like you just have a case of nostalgia-fever. I do think Panzer and Clockwork hold up quite well. I like Astal but that wasn't a launch game.

Those are all Sega games, that was the problem, no quality 3rd party games were released for quite awhile. Secretly releasing a console so nobody knows, after hyping up "Saturnday" was quite retarded. Costing $100 more than the Playstation didn't help either. And this was coming off the heels of the 32X debacle.

[WCP]

No they don't. Virtual Fighter 2 is a much better overall game so I'd rather play that.

Daytona was a fun game for it's time but there are better racing games on the same system. And it's quite disappointing if you've ever played it in the arcade. I played the hell out of the arcade and Saturn port.



Virtua Fighter 2 might have texture mapped characters, but to me it's obvious the Saturn just doesn't have enough horsepower to do a legit version of VF2 and the game just seems kind of phony to me. Basically, it's like they tried to use smoke and mirrors to make it seem like the Saturn could run VF2, but the Saturn really can't handle it very well. I don't think it looks as classy as the flat shaded polygons of the original VF.

Yes, we all know that Sega Rally is even better, but again, we are talking about another top 10 all-time Saturn game. So what if Daytona isn't ranked as high as Sega Rally. It's damn close and easily one of the best 32 bit era racing games.

[wiggyx]

I think you need to try Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA again. To me, both of those games really stand the test of time. Not graphically, but gameplay wise. both still have great gameplay, and even better music. Also, I think Virtua Fighter, while very flawed technically, I think it's simpler look holds up better over the years. Daytona is one of those games that you'll appreciate more when you see the intricacy of the gameplay that takes a number of hours to notice. You can't just pop it in and play for 20 minutes and see the beauty of that game.

No, I really don't. I know good and well that I don't like them.

[M.Buster2184]

Panzer and Astal are the only games on that list which manage to get more than "meh" in my opinion.

My sentiment exactly. Nothing agains the other games, but Astal and Panzer Dragoon are two games I actually enjoy taking the time to play.

[Tron 2.0]

I think you need to try Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA again. To me, both of those games really stand the test of time. Not graphically, but gameplay wise. both still have great gameplay, and even better music. Also, I think Virtua Fighter, while very flawed technically, I think it's simpler look holds up better over the years. Daytona is one of those games that you'll appreciate more when you see the intricacy of the gameplay that takes a number of hours to notice. You can't just pop it in and play for 20 minutes and see the beauty of that game.
I don't know about that i all ways saw daytona usa,as a poor port for the saturn.Then again i played it allot in the arcades so i was disappointed with it.While i was a early adopter of the console,those early release that impressed me the most was astal and panzer dragoon.Still i all ways thought the (sega saturn)was launched to early beside throwing off retailers with no date at all.

[Little Miss Gloom]

I love my Saturn. But man. I dunno, I've never been very good at Daytona USA, and Virtua Fighter is an experience over in ten minutes. *shrug*

Although, my Saturn also came with copies of Quake and Panzer Dragoon, so I guess I can't complain.

Now if only the market for decent Saturn games wasn't so damn inflated.

[FieryReign]

Virtua Fighter 2 might have texture mapped characters, but to me it's obvious the Saturn just doesn't have enough horsepower to do a legit version of VF2 and the game just seems kind of phony to me. Basically, it's like they tried to use smoke and mirrors to make it seem like the Saturn could run VF2, but the Saturn really can't handle it very well. I don't think it looks as classy as the flat shaded polygons of the original VF
So you're saying you like flat shaded polygons with massive clipping? Virtua Fighter didn't compare to the arcade version either so what are you saying? VF2 was a better OVERALL game, I don't care about graphics. Smoother gameplay, more characters, more moves etc. It certainly wasn't a top 10 game for the system. VF2, Megamix, and Last Bronx were much better.

[WCP]

So you're saying you like flat shaded polygons with massive clipping? Virtua Fighter didn't compare to the arcade version either so what are you saying? VF2 was a better OVERALL game, I don't care about graphics. Smoother gameplay, more characters, more moves etc. It certainly wasn't a top 10 game for the system. VF2, Megamix, and Last Bronx were much better.

I guess what I'm saying is that flat shaded polygons kinda have a timeless look compared to all those other fighters. I like the gameplay of VF on Saturn. I never really got into VF2 very much, maybe it's ultimately a better game, but I'd rather play the original VF in 2013. Clipping and all.

[Mr Mort]

I'm as big a Sega Saturn fan as you can get, but I'm just not feeling it on most of those.

I got my Saturn at launch with Virtua Fighter (obviously), and Daytona, and I got Panzer Dragoon a couple of weeks later.

VF was a competent port at the time, but even then, the clipping really bothered me considering I played the arcade game to death. I knew at the time (and still do) that to expect an arcade-perfect port would be somewhat unrealistic, but it's not as good as it should have been. It was ok, but not great.

As far as Daytona is concerned, I feel the same way, a decent port gameplay-wise, but that pop-up really breaks the immersion.

Panzer Dragoon on the other hand, was amazing. It was the first Saturn game that really felt like a fresh and new experience. The music, the art design, sweeping & dramatic camera angles, and CG cutscenes were just screaming next-gen at the time.

The Saturn has an abundance of phenomenal games, but out of the games you listed, the only one I would consider "amazing" is Panzer Dragoon.
As stated already, the selection of games wasn't really the issue with the Saturn launch at all. It was the surprise that pissed off retailers, publishers, and the consumer base. Meh.

P.S.: Fuck Bernie Stolar

[Garry Silljo]

Saturn Virtua Fighter should have been better. Once for fun my brother and I played the Saturn and 32x versions side by side to compare, and we actually thought the 32x port was better.

I can't help but think if they hadn't bumped up the launch and spent just a little more time "tightening up the graphics a bit," it would have been recieved much better. That goes for all the releases but VF and Daytona the most.

[Zing]

I dont even know who was playing Virtua Fighter back then. In my arcade, everyone was busy playing Mortal Kombat II, MK3, Killer Instinct, and Tekken. Even the people I knew with a Saturn didn't play Virtua Fighter. Between the moon gravity jumps and ring out bullshit, the arcade cab collected dust.

[TheRetroVideoGameAddict]

The Saturn launch was bad in the United States because people were irked that the 32X came out less than a year before the Saturn. Also, the launch titles were poor and it was an expensive machine. All in all the Saturn could have had a much better launch with cheaper hardware, better launch titles, and they should have never released the 32X, but at least you got 3 free games with it at one point.

[bb_hood]

I dont even know who was playing Virtua Fighter back then. In my arcade, everyone was busy playing Mortal Kombat II, MK3, Killer Instinct, and Tekken. Even the people I knew with a Saturn didn't play Virtua Fighter. Between the moon gravity jumps and ring out bullshit, the arcade cab collected dust.

Yeah, I agree with this 100%. In my humble opinion the 1st Virtua Fighter game is just crap. Maybe it was impressive back then, but I never knew anybody who played it let alone liked the series. Those moon gravity jumps and the ring-out bullshit do ruin the game for me, not to mention the graphics are just bland. I dont see how you can argue that this game should be on the top 10 saturn game list, especially with truly impressive fighting games like Vampire Savoir, Marvel Super heores vs Street Fighter, Street Fighter Zero 3, and Asuka 120% Burning Fest.

[WCP]

Well, every once in awhile you end up on your own private island with an opinion that very few agree with. Thats cool.


I'm going to stick with my opinion to the bloody end, regardless. I will admit that the super floaty jumps of the original VF make it extremely risky to jump into the air in competitive matches, but just playing casual games it doesn't seem that bad. You just have to use very careful timing. Ring outs don't bother me because you go into the game knowing that if you fall out of the ring it's over, so you just have to always be mindful of it. It's part of the natural strategy of the game.

Sure, the game does have flaws, but I still think it has that classic Sega magic that wasn't an extremely common experience on Saturn. If nothing else, the sound and music effects are excellent. At least that's one thing you guys can't talk smack about.

[Mr Mort]

Once for fun my brother and I played the Saturn and 32x versions side by side to compare, and we actually thought the 32x port was better.

The 32X version is better. It plays a whole lot smoother, and doesn't suffer from any clipping or other video glitches.



Maybe it was impressive back then, but I never knew anybody who played it let alone liked the series. Those moon gravity jumps and the ring-out bullshit do ruin the game for me, not to mention the graphics are just bland. I dont see how you can argue that this game should be on the top 10 saturn game list, especially with truly impressive fighting games like Vampire Savoir, Marvel Super heores vs Street Fighter, Street Fighter Zero 3, and Asuka 120% Burning Fest.

I loved VF in the arcades, it's the reason I got a Saturn at launch. It may just be a regional thing, there were plenty of VF enthusiasts out here.
You can't beat up the game over this visuals, it was the first polygonal fighting game, it had to start somewhere. The series has aged very well. It's a very technical fighting game that is admittedly not noob-friendly, but it's very rewarding when you start playing with a decent understanding of its nuances.

[Edmond Dantes]

I can't stand the Virtua Fighter games... sorry...

But to me the Saturn is an underrated game console. I only have eight games for it, but most of them are already favorites for me. Galactic Attack and NiGHTs in particular. and I even liked the Saturn version of Quake. QUAKE, of all things.

[otaku]

I'm not sure the launch titles warranted a buy (for the most part though that tends to be true unless you must have a certain game ala killer app like mario 64 or halo etc) anyway they botched it in a bunch of other ways the marketing and burning dealers it was a nightmare and totally unecessary it sealed sega's fate its sad cause dreamcast could have been a big hit if not for this and the previous mistakes

[PreZZ]

"Sega Saturn Launch was much better than you think it was.... " nope. it wasnt.

[Graham Mitchell]

I bought a Saturn at launch and I enjoyed all those games. But for me the best stuff came out a few years later, like Shining Wisdom, Nights, and Dark Savior.

I think the first Saturn version of Daytona does play well despite the visual problems, but it's harder than 2-day old shit. The second track just destroys me. In general, I've always preferred Virtua Racing to Daytona.

[klausien]

Virtua Fighter 2 might have texture mapped characters, but to me it's obvious the Saturn just doesn't have enough horsepower to do a legit version of VF2 and the game just seems kind of phony to me. Basically, it's like they tried to use smoke and mirrors to make it seem like the Saturn could run VF2, but the Saturn really can't handle it very well. I don't think it looks as classy as the flat shaded polygons of the original VF.

Not to troll you in any way, but as a true connoisseur, I wish I had some of what you were smoking. To say that the broken graphics of the original Saturn Virtua Fighter compare favorably in any way with the Virtua Fighter 2 port is straight up delusional. VF2 on Saturn is one of the absolute best looking games ever released for the system and is still gorgeous today. It was a revelation when it was released in 1995. The Saturn's under-used, but glorious high res mode had VF2 looking better than most Playstation games; quite a feat considering how difficult it was to develop 3D games on the machine. I remember being dumbfounded by the fact that it looked just as good in motion as it did in stills. It certainly looks as good as any of the Tekken games on the PSX. I understand why Fighting Vipers and Fighters Megamix dispensed with the high res, but it really made VF2 stand out. The game's release was truly a watershed moment in the Saturn's lifetime.

VF2's 2D backgrounds - while a significant downgrade from the arcade - still looked great due to the zooming effect in use. They actually were not much of a letdown at all in the whole scheme of things; though I admit that the missing bridge Shun Di's stage was a disappointment. While the pre-rendered CG could be construed as "smoke and mirrors", Tekken 3 also employed 3D characters over 2D backgrounds - only with low resolution textures. Taking that into account, VF2 wins! ;D Loading times were also greatly improved in VF2 over the original VF. Only the sound suffered a bit in VF2 in comparison. The original and Remix had incredibly hard-hitting impact samples that still sound awesome today. VF2's strikes were muted and muffled by compression.

The clipping and glitching in the original Saturn VF is hideous in 2013, even when viewed through my most nostalgia-tinted of glasses. As you've said, the redbook audio is indeed still excellent, as is the gameplay if you are a fan, but the graphics were, and still are, a disappointment. Even the 32X version managed to show the entire ring onscreen (I know it came later). I say this with no animosity towards AM2 of course - they did their absolute best with what they had, within the time constraints they were given. Howard Scott Warshaw and Yu Suzuki could have quite a discussion about being pressured to deliver the goods within an irrational time frame I'm sure. I think we all believe that VF, and especially Daytona USA, would have been so much better than they already were on the Saturn if the suits had given Suzuki a more realistic deadline.

I do understand where you are coming from with flat shaded polygons however. I wish that the flat-shaded era lasted longer than it did. Games like VF, Virtua Racing, Cyber Sled, Starblade, and the under-appreciated Starfighter (I recommend the 3DO version) took flat-shading, or a mix of simple texturing and flat-shading, to epic places. I also still really dig the aesthetics of gouraud shaded games like CyberMorph on the Jaguar, its better sequel BattleMorph on the Jag CD, or Motor Toon GP on the PSX. The industry just jumped on the texture mapping bandwagon long before it looked good on the home consoles; though there are certainly many exceptions. For instance, though there was so much more to the gameplay of Daytona USA, Ridge Racer just looked so incredibly frickin' good in 1995. I remember absolutely drooling over the Next Gen mag spread on that one leading up to the Playstation's release in Japan. Saturn VF2 is clearly another stellar example.

Incidentally, I was a day one adopter and I still love the hell out of my Saturn. I had my copy of Daytona three months before Saturnday, and once I finally got the system in my hands, my thumbs bled from playing Daytona and VF non-stop with the terrible first run US controllers. I also remember being completely blown away by the clearly Roger Dean influenced 2D majesty of Astal. Also thanks to the Saturn, in college I was one of the few on campus who had arcade-perfect X-Men Vs. SF going in his room 24/7 while the coin-op was still new in the campus center. Good stuff.

[Genesaturn]

I think the OP is basing the Saturn launch on the games that launched with it - in that sense I agree it was great. While all my friends and family moved to the PS1, I stayed a true Sega fan and got the Saturn. I got it Christmas of 95' so I'd say a good 6 months after launch. I got it with Panzer Dragoon, Astal, and Clockwork Knight. One of my favorite launches to date.

[JakeM]

The games werent the issue with Saturn, it was Sega making every mistake you could make with a console launch besides forgetting to put the consoles and wires in the boxes when they arrived in stores. Id love for a documentary to be made solely about Saturn Day, and have all the heads of Sega America talk about what they were smoking that week.

[Radiantdawn]

About the launch being better than most remember...

I was a big sega cd fan mostly for working designs. My copy of lunar was so played though that it had cracks in the case from so much usage.

Which, I believe is why Sega lasted as long as it did. The games they did have were really, really good.

Jumping to the launch though...

Lets review a bit of history, the 3do use to be sold along Side the neo geo up top in the "awesome consoles no-one can afford" department.

When I finally got the 3do, I thought it was amazing. So, the Saturn at the time and the playstation were just, "wow". Totally different time.

That said, the playstation ultimately had better 3d than the saturn but "not at launch". I remember games like jumping flash, great games, truly, but definitely the early polygon development.

Comparatively, the launch titles of the saturn had better graphics than the launch titles of the playstation only for one reason, the saturns simply had less glitchiness.

But, the playstation made far more use of the polygons, two completely different systems, so.

At the time did I think the saturn was amazing. Yes. Did I think Virtua fighter was amazing. No.

Virtua fighter truly was very bad. I almost don't wish to say this, but I think I remember it feeling like almost a joke. The game almost felt like a bad version of an old pc fighter.

What really was the Saturns selling point is Panzer Dragoon, and the Playstation definitely could not compete with the beauty and well put togetherness of those polygons mixed with 2d.

Thankfully sega later put out a remixed version of Virtua fighter or free, they knew they messed up.

Thing is this though, the Saturn was not a 3d polygon machine, it was obvious, it was a 2d powerhouse and the 2d games it created, brilliant.

In the beginning, it could definitely create better polygons than the playstation, but, over time as developers got use to the playstation, the playstations on board 3d was simply better.

So, yes the Saturns launch, sans Virtua fighter (no wy that could compete with toshinden), was a very powerful offering (panzer dragoon).

But, where it ultimately lost is that segas system was never really meant to push 3d and sadly, people wanted what the playstation had (the FMV craze of the sega cd was over).

Now, saying that, the Saturns launch titles, with the exception of panzer dragoon, do not hold up today, that is why most of us, I'm sure who like saturn import.

But, you just can't sell the original Virtua fighter for e, especially today. Sega admittedly rushed that.

Bug!
Clockwork Knight
Panzer Dragoon
Daytona USA

All great games for their time, epecially bug being able to move through a 3d landscape was genius.

Do they hold up? No, they don't. Fun, yes. Can't compare to the later ps library and that's the truth.

Astal was genius but most of its use was the Saturns 2d engine, and you see in that what the Saturns 2d could truly do.

I think the graphics on astal rival some of the 2d graphics on the playstation 3, not saying it is better just saying it was very advanced and definitely makes you think.

Sega lost for the simple reason that people were ready to move to 3d, and sega designed a console that combined the 32x, the sega cd, and the genesis all into one system.

If they had simply kept supporting the sega cd, nixed the 32x, I feel they would have got way more business.

Still, the saturn does combine all that was good about the 3, so for us collectors today it is a great system, not for Sega, but for us.

I think really that the problems the saturn had was why the dream cast failed. Great system, but Sony already took the market.

Hope that helps.

Lesley

[Melf]

It's not entirely fair to compare the Saturn's launch titles with the Playstation's later releases. You need to compare launch with launch, and personally, I prefer the Saturn's, but not by much (Air Combat and Jumping Flash were awesome). Yes, the games were a bit uglier, but VF played so much better than Toshinden, and Daytona was much more engaging that Ridge Racer. The Saturn took much longer to get rolling, which is what really hurt any chance it had, but the launch games weren't bad at all.

And just about everyone with a Saturn was mostly playing Panzer Dragoon anyway. :p

[T.A.P.]

Honestly, I don't really like any of those games.

[BlastProcessing402]

My big problem with the launch was when my first Saturn died the first night I was playing it. Then I took it back to the EB I bought it from, and they were A) out of stock, and B) wouldn't give me my money back so I could go a few doors down and buy one at Babbages where they were in stock. They claimed not to have enough money to refund me, sheesh.

So had to call around and find an EB way across town that had some still in stock. I couldn't get over there myself for some reason, so my mom had to take it for me after work. Got the 2nd Saturn... and it was clearly already used. There were saves in the system memory and everything. Now, this might not be a big deal to some, but if I'm spending that kinda money on a "new" console, I want it to actually be new. So my mom had to take that one back after work again the following day, and then finally I had my new working unused Saturn. And I still have that one to this day.

As for the games, never was the hugest VF fan, but back then it was cool, so I was fine with it as a pack-in. Tried to play it again a couple years ago, could not get into it. Not only do I not really like the style of VF games that much anyway, but the original version is just so frickin ugly. Remix (thanks for the freebie Sega, that totally makes up for the extra hundred us launch guys had to pay... NOT) still don't like the gameplay much, but at least I can stand to look at it.

Rented Daytona, meh, it was alright, but not the sort of game I would pay full price for.

Panzer Dragoon, the real WOW release of the launch, after renting it, had to buy it.

Clockwork Knight, might not be everyone's favorite of the launch, but it was mine. I was really into platformers at the time. I especially loved how one of the bosses was a Transformer.

Those are the only games I remember playing for launch.

[WCP]

Remember, the Saturn had almost all of May, all of June, July and August, and even a week into September before the Playstation hit. I was playing Daytona, VF, Panzer Dragoon, Bug, Clockwork K. and Astal for months before the PS1 became available. While it was a short lived superiority scenario for Sega, for about 4 months there, it was the bee's knees. Hell, I even liked Robotica a bit, lol...



Of course...


I'll be the first to admit that the PS1 came along and made the Saturn look irrelevant. Once Wipeout and Loaded and Doom and games like that came out for the PS1, it was pretty much over for the Saturn. But, I really enjoyed May thru October 95 on the Saturn. When November 95 hit and the PS1 started bringing the thunder, my Saturn started getting pretty dusty.

[Ed Oscuro]

The Saturn took much longer to get rolling, which is what really hurt any chance it had
What really killed the Saturn was its bad bet on quadrilaterals. Same thing for the early NV1 chips from nVidia...great sphere rendering but poor at everything else. I don't know who the author of this page is (http://www.vintage3d.org/nv1.php) but s/he is saying a lot of sensible stuff. The tl;dr of it is that quadrilaterals were and are really bad for 3D games.

Still fun to look at sometimes, though, although now that I'm getting into the Saturn a bit a lot of its stuff looks pretty much like the PlayStation. Of that generation it's the N64 that had a really unique look compared with the others.

[bb_hood]

Remember, the Saturn had almost all of May, all of June, July and August, and even a week into September before the Playstation hit. I was playing Daytona, VF, Panzer Dragoon, Bug, Clockwork K. and Astal for months before the PS1 became available. While it was a short lived superiority scenario for Sega, for about 4 months there, it was the bee's knees. Hell, I even liked Robotica a bit, lol...



That actually is pretty impressive, I didn't know it was released that far ahead of the ps1.

One reason I think the Saturn failed is that is seems to me they 'Americanized' the cover art on many games. Look at Guardian Heroes, Panzer Dragoon, Street Fighter Alpha/Zero, Darius Gaiden, Astal, Mr Bones, X-Men COTA. It seems like the cover and box art is much cooler on the Japanese versions. The Japanese versions are much more colorful where the US variants have much more drab, boring artwork. The artwork on many US games look alot like boring computer-generated artwork. Like, take a look at the guy's face on the cover of Guardian Heroes (US version), it always makes me laugh. It makes the game look kinda stupid when in fact its a really good game.

The Japanese games have the cool gold border while the US ones have a white border. With the systems too. The White and grey ones look much cooler than solid black in my opinion. And making yet another console in solid black wont do much to differentiate it from the sega cd or genesis. The white controllers with the colored buttons are awesome as well, not to mention how awesome the Japanese Virtua Sticks look.

It seems like across the board they decreased the presentation of the system and games to a point where it just diddnt LOOK impressive; because the Japanese saturn stuff looks seriously cool. Way better than any PLaystation 1 stuff in my opinion.


edit - Not that it really has anything to do with the launch, but I think Final Fantasy 7 on the ps1 was a major nail in the sega saturn's coffin. Many people loved the RPGs on SNES and many gamers wanted more. Saturn had no support from SquareSoft, and not many RPG games at all. No one is gonna argue that FF7 isnt a great game, and back then it was even more impressive. I think FF7 was a huge game-changer which alone convinced many people to buy a playstation. I remember back in the day my younger brother saved up enough money to buy a playstation just for FF7 after it was released, and we both completed it more than once. At the time neither of us even knew the saturn existed (and we did own a sega cd at the time).

[WCP]

Hey, by the way, many people are mentioning the word "Saturnday". The way I understand it, Saturnday was originally the September 2nd release date for the Saturn in the USA, before they did the surprise launch.


The Saturn actually launched on May 11th, 1995, which was a Thursday. At least that is the day that most people have as the official launch date. I know sometimes that inaccurate dates can be reported by tons of websites (SNES launch date was inaccurate for many years).

[Tron 2.0]

edit - Not that it really has anything to do with the launch, but I think Final Fantasy 7 on the ps1 was a major nail in the sega saturn's coffin. Many people loved the RPGs on SNES and many gamers wanted more. Saturn had no support from SquareSoft, and not many RPG games at all. No one is gonna argue that FF7 isnt a great game, and back then it was even more impressive. I think FF7 was a huge game-changer which alone convinced many people to buy a playstation. I remember back in the day my younger brother saved up enough money to buy a playstation just for FF7 after it was released, and we both completed it more than once. At the time neither of us even knew the saturn existed (and we did own a sega cd at the time).
There were rpgs for the saturn in japan just that,bernie stolar didn't think there was a market for it in the u.s.

[FieryReign]

No one is gonna argue that FF7 isnt a great game, and back then it was even more impressive.
I will. It wasn't very impressive to me. Just another boring rpg with some fancy graphics.

[Kiddo]

I will. It wasn't very impressive to me. Just another boring rpg with some fancy graphics.

The graphics didn't age well at all, but at the time they looked high-budget and SquareSoft put them into a very cinematic final product, which was something JRPGs strived for starting from the 16-bit era. (Although considering how now they're going overboard on cinematics over gameplay mechanics and wasting good cinematics on plots that suck or are impossible to figure out, I'm starting to regret this trend.)
I think it's pretty hyperbolic to think one game can have that much an impact (From my anecdotal experience, interest in Playstation was trending upwards right from the start and most FFVII owners I know already had Playstations for at least multiple months with many other games to begin with.) but it was certainly a success and a gaming history upset of some kind.

That being said, I will say it's a highly overrated game when put into context. Storytelling wise it feels way too much like "FFVI Redux except dialed down a bit and stealing more cues from Evangelion", and in some ways the gameplay reflected that as well. It seemed like Square was trying to blend together the "unique characters" aspect of FFVI with the "customizible characters" aspect of FFV in some ways and ended up with some mediocre in-between that wouldn't please either side. I also feel that the game showcases most of the early signs of Square's "original sins" that would heavily factor into how their later projects were handled.

As for the Saturn... yeah, I had a Saturn early on, and I liked Daytona and all, but honestly, there's no way to argue that the US didn't get shafted in regards to Saturn releases, and the surprise launch, if not partly to blame for it, at least showed the signs of American marketing incompetency.

Anyway, is it just me, or are there a lot of forum debates lately that try to do "revisionist history" on things commonly accepted by the internet videogame community? It's pretty understandable for things that have been shrouded in obscurity, but I don't really think it's appropriate to try to pull that on the Sega Saturn's surprise launch.