Been buying Japanese games lately and Why do the Japanese games come mint and ours are crap.

[PROTOTYPE]

Japanese take care of their games way better then us, They totally get it but us? Manuals missing, CD scratch the #$@ up, cases are crack or broken and labels mess up ... list goes on and on. But Japanese games are usually complete and like new condition.WHY? :roll:

[InsaneDavid]

USA: Home video game era booms with a game rental culture, all that matters are the games themselves.

Japan: Home video game era booms with no game rental culture (if I recall it had something to do with a government ban, I'm sure someone can correct me on this), resale culture instead. Higher re-buy prices for games in better condition, complete, etc. means more importance on keeping things together and in good shape.

[wiggyx]

Plenty of games in Japan are treated like shit, you just won't see a lot of them on eBay and such. I buy large lots of GBAs from Japan and the vast majority are covered with stickers, beat to shit, have bug carcasses in them, etc. and those are from a time when rental and resale were far less common than today in Japan.

[Guyra]

While what InsaneDavid said might have some truth to it, I don't think that's all. Particularly because I live in Norway, and although it did exist, video game rental was never big here. I think it has much more to do with cultural differences. I think the Japanese, on a general level, are basically just better at taking care of their stuff. Perhaps it's because the things they own more than people in the west do, or maybe it's something completely different. But that's my hypothesis, at least. :)

[Aussie2B]

I import lots of different kinds of used products from Japan (books, music CDs, figures, etc.), and I do think the Japanese do, in general, take better care of their possessions than Americans. They don't have a throwaway culture to quite the same extent that we do. For one, their homes tend to be much smaller than the average American home, so you have to consider what you're bringing in in the first place (only things that are truly valuable to you), keeping organized is a must if you want the most out of your space, and things are less likely to get forgotten, lost, and abused in some dirty corner of a basement/garage/attic/etc. There's also the fact that they're really big on recycling and minimizing trash, so they're not inclined to constantly throw out things that have been ruined out of carelessness. It's more likely for a game to at least be kept in functional shape and then sold off to a used game store when no longer wanted.

That said, wiggy is right in that Americans are getting a filtered view of what retro game collecting is like in Japan. We usually get the cream of the crop because, really, a beat-up loose Famicom cart worth only a buck isn't worth the effort of exporting. The profit margins need to be big enough to be worth the effort, otherwise they'll just throw it on a used game shelf in Japan for Japanese shoppers. If you ever watch something like Game Center CX, where they visit a lot of used game stores, you'll see MASSIVE amounts of loose carts, some with marker writing or otherwise in compromised condition. Also, smoking is really popular in Japan (far higher up on the list of cigarette consumption per capita than the US), so it's not uncommon for used goods to smell of and/or be stained by smoke. But again, these items often stay within Japan.

[wiggyx]

Oh man, I forgot about the smoking thing. Indigo GBAs often show up damn near black and glacier units are sometimes so stained that they teeter on orange/brown :(

[FoxNtd]

Basically all the various comments are true. I have evidence of everything. Of course most items are in great shape, many looking like brand new more or less. And I have stuff from the other end of the quality spectrum, old loose FC carts with marker on the back and stains on the generic warning label on the back of the cart and such. Smoke-stained goods are much more obvious with hardware, consoles and controllers mostly.

Still, most things are good and you won't see supremely defaced items like some of the really sick, disturbing, really fucking repugnant shit like some people talk about buying used USA games. (People talking about opening a USA cart to find soda damage for fuck's sake!)

[wiggyx]

I find what seems to be soda or some sticky liquid and dead bugs in many of the GBAs that I get from Japan. In fact, way more dead bugs than I've ever seen in units purchased in the US.

Kids are kids. They spill stuff no matter what country they're in.

[FoxNtd]

Ick. Guess I have a bit of luck I guess. Typically I get stuff that looks fine and is rated fine, but when it arrives it's hard to tell if it's even been used. :)

[Ed Oscuro]

Plenty of games in Japan are treated like shit, you just won't see a lot of them on eBay and such. I buy large lots of GBAs from Japan and the vast majority are covered with stickers, beat to shit, have bug carcasses in them, etc. and those are from a time when rental and resale were far less common than today in Japan.
This hasn't been my experience, but yeah, a lot of us have a better opinion of Japanese stuff in general because of self-selection. If you buy big lots of games then that's probably a much better indication of quality.

Anybody remember this? (http://imgur.com/gallery/mjDmL)

[badinsults]

Japanese take care of their games way better then us, They totally get it but us? Manuals missing, CD scratch the #$@ up, cases are crack or broken and labels mess up ... list goes on and on. But Japanese games are usually complete and like new condition.WHY? :roll:


Obviously, the people you are buying stuff from don't sell the poor condition stuff.

I went to a used game store when I was in Japan a couple of months ago, and they had stacks of loose carts that were in terrible shape. Of course, you could buy 25 of them for 2000 yen, so it was very cheap. I remember opening up a SFC cart and many of the components were so corroded that they fell off the board (somehow, the game still worked). I honestly don't believe that people in Japan keep things in better condition than US people in general, it is just not worthwhile for sellers to sell crappy condition stuff to overseas buyers.

[SparTonberry]

I suppose they'd probably only sell a really stained copy if it's something really in demand, like um, Gimmick. :)

[Az]

Do any retail chains in Japan purposely toss out boxes, manuals, etc like American ones?

[The 1 2 P]

I also import alot of stuff from Japan, mostly games, magazines, cds and dvds. While it may be true that they have their fair share of shitty conditioned stuff, in my experience their used items are in far better condition than used stuff here. And I'm not just talking about Gamestop's shitty used games, I'm also talking about what you'll typically find at yard sales, flea markets and thrifts such as Goodwill. Beyond the less than steller condition you also find missing disc, missing manuals and sometimes a completely different game than whats suppose to be in there. Even when I import games from Japan in the 50 cents to $5 range it's usually in far better condition than what I'd find over here listed for $20-$40 used. The condition of Japanese games I receive is pretty much in the same condition that I keep all of my personal collection in so importing works out pretty well for me.

[badinsults]

Do any retail chains in Japan purposely toss out boxes, manuals, etc like American ones?

Well, as far as I could see, there weren't any dedicated video game stores that sold used games. The big box place I went to was Tsutaya, which sold books, DVDs, CDs and video games. They also rented these all out (yes, CD rentals happen), so I imagine they sell the games used after a while. Going to the second hand shop that sold games, the vast majority of the cart based systems were loose. I don't actually think that most people kept the boxes and manuals.

[wiggyx]

Ick. Guess I have a bit of luck I guess. Typically I get stuff that looks fine and is rated fine, but when it arrives it's hard to tell if it's even been used. :)

It's a mixed bag. I've purchased lots of stuff that's in amazing condition, but my only point is that not everything is minty-mint in Japan ;)


This hasn't been my experience, but yeah, a lot of us have a better opinion of Japanese stuff in general because of self-selection. If you buy big lots of games then that's probably a much better indication of quality.

Anybody remember this? (http://imgur.com/gallery/mjDmL)

That's why I made sure to mention that I buy in large lots. This is stuff that isn't worth the time to sell individually because of the condition, but it most definitely does exist.


Well, as far as I could see, there weren't any dedicated video game stores that sold used games. The big box place I went to was Tsutaya, which sold books, DVDs, CDs and video games. They also rented these all out (yes, CD rentals happen), so I imagine they sell the games used after a while. Going to the second hand shop that sold games, the vast majority of the cart based systems were loose. I don't actually think that most people kept the boxes and manuals.

There are LOTS of used stores in Japan, they're typically just tiny and tucked away in corners.

[badinsults]

The second hand store I went to was neither tiny, nor tucked away. I'm sure there were some smaller stores in the city I was in, but I didn't see them in the areas I went to. The store was pretty neat, they had sections for every console I have ever heard of. The SFC section was between the Wonderswan section and N64 section.

[otaku]

I've always had good luck with japan items but I think thats just what is chosen for sale here by importers and collectors more than anything also I've heard (perhaps falsely now it seems) that the japanese care for there items more, prices tend to be higher and this rental businness is news to me but would make sense also

[The 1 2 P]

Typically I get stuff that looks fine and is rated fine, but when it arrives it's hard to tell if it's even been used. :)

Thats been my experience as well. I'll buy stuff thats listed as good or very good and when it arrives theres not a single mark(cart) or scratch(disc) on anything. The majority of stuff is basically in new condition minus any factory seal. And if it's a cd or cart it always has all of the inserts. The only thing that might be missing from time to time is the obi card but thats usually listed in the description. And like I said in my previous post, these aren't all expensive items(atleast not in my case). I've been importaing alot of Xbox and Xbox 260 Japanese stuff over the last few months and I've been getting it for the same cost it goes for in Japan, anywhere from 50 cents to $5. And even the stuff sold in that price range is in immaculate condition.

[Tanooki]

A lot of what I've bought there was in solid shape, but as noted it is a smoking culture and many have reeked f cigarettes.

[Niku-Sama]

the ciggeretts there done have as much crap in them so they dont cause as much of a problem as they would here but its still bad.

most of the stuff i get isnt in good shape but at the same time i am buying broken consoles and such from Yamatoku on ebay, and when i get it its still in better condition than what they describe it as.
the worse i got was a copy of chrono trigger for PSX that only had the manual and the disc, the listing didnt say any thing about that but it was $1 and i roped it in with a bunch of other items so it didnt matter, considered it the freebie game after they combined shipping.

and i am talking about broken things like a complete FDS for $35 shipped and a Famicom for $20 shipped, both of them seperate from one another, both in pretty damn good shape, the box on the FDS is ok but better than the poor shape they listed it as.

FDS needs a belt Fami needs a new RF board, working on a redesign PCB that should put put better picture/sound......is a long and teedius process

[wiggyx]

They still have tobacco in them, and that's really the issue with staining.

[Aussie2B]

At least with the smoke staining, it can come off pretty easily a fair amount of the time. Like just recently I got a PC Engine CD game with a jewel case that was considerably yellowish/brownish, but with a bit of wiping with some soapy, wet rags, it cleaned up very nicely. Now only the part of the white tray along the spine still has a slightly yellow tint.

[MetalFRO]

I tend to think that the above comments that only the more well cared for items make their way to the eBay's and import game retailers on a regular basis. I own a handful of Saturn imports that I've purchased, some of which are in near-mint condition (KoF '95 and '96 that I got for a steal), and some that are incomplete or beat up, like a Cotton 2 disc-only copy I bought some 10 years ago from a US seller, or a rather beat-up copy of Layer Section that has several rips in the manual, etc. But then I bought a Capcom Generations Vol 1 from the same shop that only had minor damage, and was complete with spine card and other stuff hiding between the CD tray and tray card. Granted, the damage to the manuals of the LS and Capcom purchases could have been from previous US owners, and the tray card and/or manual may have been lost by a US or other person before that Cotton 2 game reached me, but it's also just as possible that the damage was done before they ever left Japan.

[wiggyx]

At least with the smoke staining, it can come off pretty easily a fair amount of the time. Like just recently I got a PC Engine CD game with a jewel case that was considerably yellowish/brownish, but with a bit of wiping with some soapy, wet rags, it cleaned up very nicely. Now only the part of the white tray along the spine still has a slightly yellow tint.

My experience is that smoke stains don't come out. I soak the parts in a soap/water bath and even occasionally run them through the dishwasher.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k99/wiggyx/Game%20Stuff/null_zps3315c974.jpg~original

Neither of these have been cleaned yet, but they're gonna come out looking the same save for the grime. I've never seen one come out looking any different than when it went in.

[Aussie2B]

Well, I'm speaking more so of games. I have no need for buying Japanese systems by the boatload. Most of my Japanese systems and controllers were either bought new or in decent shape.

[wiggyx]

Either way, same plastics. Doesn't matter if you buy one or a thousand.

[Haoie]

Is resale of games still 'illegal' in Japan? I have a few old games that have a little symbol "no resale".

[badinsults]

Is resale of games still 'illegal' in Japan? I have a few old games that have a little symbol "no resale".

I would assume that isn't true, as used games were pretty prominent in this store I went to.

Chances are, they are display copies, or were pack-in games.

[SparTonberry]

I heard they overturned that after a few years, as nobody was following that anyways.
(not sure how that compares to China's console ban)

[Aussie2B]

Either way, same plastics. Doesn't matter if you buy one or a thousand.

No, the plastics are not the same. Different plastics have different chemical makeups, some are porous while others are smooth, etc. etc. And obviously the plastics used on systems and games are not the same if your experience with systems is that the discoloration never comes out while my experience with games is that it often can be improved through cleaning. And I've been importing tons of stuff from Japan for over 10 years.

You seriously have to drop this arrogant tone of yours in which you act like you always know better and have more experience than everyone else. You're still a relative newbie, yet you're posturing as if you're some kind of top dog around here. Sorry to break it to you, but there are tons of collectors on here who have every bit as much experience as you, if not much, much more.

[JakeM]

Ive noticed in videos of japanese retro stores they put the carts in plastic seals. Maybe that has something to do with it.

[jperryss]

No, the plastics are not the same. Different plastics have different chemical makeups, some are porous while others are smooth, etc. etc. And obviously the plastics used on systems and games are not the same if your experience with systems is that the discoloration never comes out while my experience with games is that it often can be improved through cleaning. And I've been importing tons of stuff from Japan for over 10 years.

If you're referring to the turd-brown staining that happens on lots of white 80s/90s gear (SNES, original PCE, PC/Apple hardware) then no, cleaning doesn't help. The fact that there are hundreds of SNES consoles that look half-minty/half-pukenasty (http://www.vintagecomputing.com/wp-content/images/snes_plastic/snes_plastic_1_small.jpg) should prove that these consoles aren't just dirty. If you scrub hard enough while cleaning it, you'll remove some of the outermost layer of plastic, which might make your console "look" whiter, but all you've done is sanded off the outermost layer and exposed a new layer of plastic, which will eventually stain. You can't actually return the console to it's original white without some kind of chemical bath and UV, like this (http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/). Or paint.

And while we're talking about it, I've seen no correlation between the staining and whether the console came from a smoke-free home or not. Equipment that comes from a smoker's home is nasty, no doubt, but not the same.

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, some of the items that wiggy has acquired may have discolored from oxidization rather than smoke, and that's pretty difficult to do anything about. I find with smoke-stained games, the discoloration is often mostly just surface residue that can be improved, sometimes eliminated, with basic cleaning. The plastics used in system/controller shells may be more prone to permanently absorbing the stains than in the plastics of game cases, just as the white tray of my aforementioned PC Engine game retains some discoloration while the clear plastic cleaned up perfectly. Different plastics, different results.