River City Ransom: Underground Kickstarter

[treismac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO0sfoYYNbA

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/combitstudios/river-city-ransom-underground

Well, it looks like River City Ransom "2" is finally going to become a reality, providing the funding happens, of course.

[Greg2600]

Canada dollars, I cannot compute! Man, is this the month of nostalgia sequel Kickstarters or what?

[JSoup]

That goony developer guy made me want to close the video without watching.

Am I the only one who just didn't find Rivercity Ransom to be that great?

[Bojay1997]

That goony developer guy made me want to close the video without watching.

Am I the only one who just didn't find Rivercity Ransom to be that great?

I liked the original game, but there have been many similar games and even many other games in this series released over the years. It's odd that people keep acting like they have resurrected some long dead series. While I will give them credit for getting the license, the bios of the various team members doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I think only one of them has any experience at all in actual game development and it sounds like it was as a minor member of much larger teams. The other guys are musicians and guys generally interested in games which I suppose is good for enthusiasm, but not something I'm looking to risk my money on.

[BricatSegaFan]

This leaves a bad taste. The game was good, we don't need some douchey hipsters ruining the series just because someone gave them handouts to make it.

[goob47]

Yeah, a lot of these Kickstarter sequels just remind me of how Hollywood is just mooching off previous franchises for more money. It's just wrong. If this douche has an idea of an original game that actually sounds good, I would consider it. But as of now, we don't need any more resurrected gems.

[TheRedEye]

That "girls don't play video games!" joke really rubbed me the wrong way. Don't like this guy and don't see much of a game here that I actually want to play, not supporting.

It's trending toward getting funded though so if the game ends up good, hey, I can buy it later.

[treismac]

Without any members of the original Technos team that made the first RCR working on this project there is reason to be a little cautious with getting too optimistic. I'd like to see a demo before throwing any money their way to ensure I'm sponsoring something worthwhile.


Am I the only one who just didn't find Rivercity Ransom to be that great?

Yes. Yes you are. Please turn in your retro gaming cred card and walk slowly away. Thank you.

The need to grind and grind and grind can get a little tedious, truth be told, which is already one of the major detractor with beat 'em ups, and the flickering with two players makes my NES sad. Flaws aside, the game has mucho personality and is quite fun.

[treismac]

This leaves a bad taste. The game was good, we don't need some douchey hipsters ruining the series just because someone gave them handouts to make it.

Didn't the Kunio-kun Ikebana game already do that?

[Niku-Sama]

i'm done with video game kickstarters.

every one and their dog is doing it because "woe is me I don't have any money" do it in your spare time and make it awesome then charge for it and you can proudly say you didn't need a damn handout

[Greg2600]

i'm done with video game kickstarters.

every one and their dog is doing it because "woe is me I don't have any money" do it in your spare time and make it awesome then charge for it and you can proudly say you didn't need a damn handout

Have you seen 95% of the "did it in my spare time" homebrew games? They're horrible on anything NES and newer. Only the diehardest of the diehards would ever consider buying it. Not to mention that they take years and years, and often don't get finished. It's not a handout, you're getting something for the donation. Read the description, they say they had to spend their own money up front to license the game from Technos. It's one thing to be disinterested in the game, but you're going to have to get used to these kinds of titles being crowd-funded, because they will not be made otherwise.

[Niku-Sama]

Have you seen 95% of the "did it in my spare time" homebrew games? They're horrible on anything NES and newer. Only the diehardest of the diehards would ever consider buying it. Not to mention that they take years and years, and often don't get finished. It's not a handout, you're getting something for the donation. Read the description, they say they had to spend their own money up front to license the game from Technos. It's one thing to be disinterested in the game, but you're going to have to get used to these kinds of titles being crowd-funded, because they will not be made otherwise.

i'm thinking people like the dude that did minecraft, it started out just him making something, and starting out it was good and hasn't detracted from there.

it was a dude working his ass off on his own thing and took off from there

[Bojay1997]

i'm thinking people like the dude that did minecraft, it started out just him making something, and starting out it was good and hasn't detracted from there.

it was a dude working his ass off on his own thing and took off from there

I agree. Some people assume that Kickstarter is now the only way to do a small indie game, but there are many other ways to accomplish the same thing. Heck, people create games without Kickstarter financing all the time and Minecraft is just one of many, many recent examples. Frankly, with the heavy Kickstarter fatigue that has set in recently, I think Kickstarter is really not a very viable way to get games financed unless you have a near ready to release project or an IP or team that is already super well known.

[StoneAgeGamer]

I agree. Some people assume that Kickstarter is now the only way to do a small indie game, but there are many other ways to accomplish the same thing. Heck, people create games without Kickstarter financing all the time and Minecraft is just one of many, many recent examples. Frankly, with the heavy Kickstarter fatigue that has set in recently, I think Kickstarter is really not a very viable way to get games financed unless you have a near ready to release project or an IP or team that is already super well known.

I agree, the idea that giving some guys $180K+ (interest free) with no obligation to ever deliver on their promise makes for better games I think that is faulty thinking. Free money doesn't spark innovation, it sparks rehashes like this project. It may be a good game (if it ever gets made), but so what? There are plenty of good indie beat'em ups. I am not completely against crowd-funding, but I have grown tired of it. Especially for indie games such as this. Its not even an original game, its a sequel/rehash of a pretty good NES game. I would rather see something original.

[BricatSegaFan]

Was anyone else bothered by the way he calls the NES "The Nintendo"? I also hate the way he has shit pop culture like mustaches and what not onto it just to be hip and cool.

[Kitsune Sniper]

These guys spent a lot of their own money to get the license to make this game. The people who own the franchise liked their pitch enough to OK this. I'm sure that if Million had the money to fund this game they would have done so, but they're not that big of a company. So what other option do these devs have to get their game made?

You're -not- giving these people "interest free" money. They still have to pay taxes, salaries, software and technology licensing fees - for starters.

And the fact that a bunch of you are dismissing this project just because you don't like the people and the jokes in the pitch video is pretty disappointing. You guys sound like kupomogli.

[Tupin]

Hmm, interesting. I like River City Ransom, but I'd be more confident if the original team were on board.

I also echo some feelings here that Kickstarter is being used wrong. Why not make an entirely new game?

[Bojay1997]

These guys spent a lot of their own money to get the license to make this game. The people who own the franchise liked their pitch enough to OK this. I'm sure that if Million had the money to fund this game they would have done so, but they're not that big of a company. So what other option do these devs have to get their game made?

You're -not- giving these people "interest free" money. They still have to pay taxes, salaries, software and technology licensing fees - for starters.

And the fact that a bunch of you are dismissing this project just because you don't like the people and the jokes in the pitch video is pretty disappointing. You guys sound like kupomogli.

I'm sorry, but the team in a crowdfunding venture is as critical if not more critical than the product they are claiming they need the funding to create. Crowdfunding is a weird hybrid of charity and investment and when perfect strangers ask for the help of the general public, they have to be prepared for significant scrutiny, especially when they have no track record at all. As such, acting like hipster douchebags on a video intended to solicit support is probably not the best move.

For the record, it's not clear how much they actually paid for the license. It's entirely possible that they have an option agreement (wherein they only made a small downpayment on the total licensing fee) and/or some kind of revenue sharing arrangement with Million. Frankly, Million is just a rights holding company so I doubt they cared too much about who licensed the rights as long as they were provided with a revenue stream and some reasonable assurance of payment. In fact, the Kickstarter page makes it clear that some portion of the money raised in the campaign is being used to pay for the rights, so I suspect it's highly likely they haven't paid anyone anything just yet, or a very minimal amount.

As for the rest, the taxes are deducted out of whatever financing they may receive through Kickstarter, but not out of any money they put in themselves. If they have no profit after release, taxes aren't going to be a concern. Similarly, in start-up ventures, the founding partners rarely take a salary for the first year or two. The fact that they want to pay themselves to work on this game is certainly not unheard of, but realistically, these guys couldn't get hired by an existing developer or publisher given their lack of track record, so I'm not sure how much their time is really worth in this context.

I personally think this is not a sound risk given what I have seen of this project and their lack of a track record. Everyone just seems excited about the fact that they licensed the rights to use the name and IP of this series, but there have been lots of similar licensing deals over the years from small publishers and even homebrewers and that was long before crowdfunding was even a thing.

[kupomogli]

Am I the only one who just didn't find Rivercity Ransom to be that great?

I think it's good, just overrated. I think people like the idea of its open world and RPG like system over the actual gameplay those two things actually bring to the game. Because when talking about its flaws, grinding and the amount of backtracking is always mentioned, so if that's the case, what's the point in praising those two systems when they're two of the games main flaws?

[treismac]

I think it's good, just overrated. I think people like the idea of its open world and RPG like system over the actual gameplay those two things actually bring to the game. Because when talking about its flaws, grinding and the amount of backtracking is always mentioned, so if that's the case, what's the point in praising those two systems when they're two of the games main flaws?

Those two flaws don't override the other benefits that the open world and RPG system bring to the table. For the record, I really enjoy the gameplay in River City Ransom, too.

[goob47]

i'm done with video game kickstarters.

every one and their dog is doing it because "woe is me I don't have any money" do it in your spare time and make it awesome then charge for it and you can proudly say you didn't need a damn handout

I second that. And it especially irks me when large game companies do Kickstarters.

[kupomogli]

I second that. And it especially irks me when large game companies do Kickstarters.

I'd like Sega to do a Yakuza 5 kickstarter. They've stated they've cancelled all plans to localize it. I'd donate for a physical copy of the localization. Although it's less of a kickstarter, since the game is already done, more like a "preorder and if we get a certain amount we'll print it."

[Greg2600]

I second that. And it especially irks me when large game companies do Kickstarters.

I've yet to see a "large game company" do that. Pinball Arcade has done them to pay to license and build new tables, but they are not a large company.

[StoneAgeGamer]

These guys spent a lot of their own money to get the license to make this game. The people who own the franchise liked their pitch enough to OK this. I'm sure that if Million had the money to fund this game they would have done so, but they're not that big of a company. So what other option do these devs have to get their game made?

You're -not- giving these people "interest free" money. They still have to pay taxes, salaries, software and technology licensing fees - for starters.

And the fact that a bunch of you are dismissing this project just because you don't like the people and the jokes in the pitch video is pretty disappointing. You guys sound like kupomogli.

Actually you don't know how much of their money they spent since they actually didn't break anything down. God forbid they actually had to spend some of their own money, poor babies. I mean how much do you really think a license for River City Ransom was? My guess is the company holding the license was happy to get any money for it. This is not some top tier IP here. Also the money is interest free, since they don't pay...interest...on...it. You pay interest on loans. This isn't a loan, they do not have to pay it back. There is no actual accountability and very little risk.

Listen I actually don't care what these people do and I don't care that people donate to kickstarters they want to. What does annoy me a bit is when people act like the people doing these kickstarters are doing it for noble reason and because they just really love the games. They are doing it because they want a paycheck. Nothing wrong with that, we all need to getz paid, but lets not make it something more than that.

[Lictalon]

I don't know why a remake of this game would be needed:

1. It's a period piece. One of the things I liked about the game were the rough edges, like the funny dialog ("BARF"), and the less-than-stellar graphics (like when Alex goes into a store and eats something - that just sticks out in my memory). And the digital music, for that matter.

2. Making the game more interesting would require remaking its concept. You have: the fight screens, the bosses, the stores, and some dialog spots. That's the extent of the RPG elements. You'd have to add new features to it to improve on it. Just adding more of the same isn't enough. They keep talking about adding new RPG elements - what are they? They never talk about it.

3. I never thought it was a good 2-player game - grinding isn't a good multiplayer experience.

4. It was already remade for the GBA, and these guys' graphics don't look much improved on those. In Japan, it did have sequels.

So you'd have to reinvent the whole game to make it re-releasable, and I saw nothing on that video that indicated something like that.

(and for the record - when I beat it, I used that secret store in the tunnel, so maybe I didn't grind as much as necessary)

[StoneAgeGamer]

I'd like Sega to do a Yakuza 5 kickstarter. They've stated they've cancelled all plans to localize it. I'd donate for a physical copy of the localization. Although it's less of a kickstarter, since the game is already done, more like a "preorder and if we get a certain amount we'll print it."

What I would prefer is a site (lets call is Demander) where a company puts up an idea they have. Lets say Shenmue 3. Sega says Shenmue 3 will get made is they can sell at least 3,000,000 copies at $60/ea. People sign-up pay their $60.00 which is held until for whatever the length of the campaign is. Lets say 6 months. If after that 6 months they get 3,000,000+ people to pay the $60 then the project gets green lit. Obviously you would need some type of time period for the project to be completed by. If the project is completed by that date Sega would then be given all funds that were being held and anyone who put in the $60 gets the game that they already paid for. If the game is not completed by that time the funds are somehow released back to the customers. Obviously this would need to be thought out better and may have some legal hurdles, but personally I like this idea better. It lets a company truly check if their is enough demand for a product that may hard to verify by other means and the customer actually gets their money back if the company does not have enough demand or doesn't fulfill their side of the bargain. Maybe its a stupid idea, I don't know, but I would actually consider participating in something like this over a kickstarter.

One major downside I see to this idea is that the company could just release a piece of junk game to get the money released. However companies already release junk games, so that's nothing new.

[StoneAgeGamer]

I don't know why a remake of this game would be needed:

1. It's a period piece. One of the things I liked about the game were the rough edges, like the funny dialog ("BARF"), and the less-than-stellar graphics (like when Alex goes into a store and eats something - that just sticks out in my memory). And the digital music, for that matter.

2. Making the game more interesting would require remaking its concept. You have: the fight screens, the bosses, the stores, and some dialog spots. That's the extent of the RPG elements. You'd have to add new features to it to improve on it. Just adding more of the same isn't enough. They keep talking about adding new RPG elements - what are they? They never talk about it.

3. I never thought it was a good 2-player game - grinding isn't a good multiplayer experience.

4. It was already remade for the GBA, and these guys' graphics don't look much improved on those. In Japan, it did have sequels.

So you'd have to reinvent the whole game to make it re-releasable, and I saw nothing on that video that indicated something like that.

(and for the record - when I beat it, I used that secret store in the tunnel, so maybe I didn't grind as much as necessary)

Its not needed. The reason they did it is because its how they hook people into the kickstarter. What's the difference between a good indie beat 'em up and a good indie beat 'em up with the name "River City Ransom" on it? Nothing. My guess is the license was relatively cheap. So they are using a cheap license of a game that was pretty good to hopefully get the nostalgia juices flowing and get people to donate. It also gets way more press and attention. I mean we're talking about it. I doubt we would be if it was called "Super Beat 'em Up 3000". So its working for them.

EDIT: I should also mention that its obviously a good way to sell the game if it ever gets released as well.

[treismac]

For future, non-River City Ransom: Underground related, general Kickstarter complaining:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?169407-Kickstarter-Complaining-Thread

[Double Ugly]

I don't know where you guys are getting the "douche/hipster" thing. The guy is trying to show his enthusiasm & he is not good at it but you don't have to be judgmental about it. The guy has probably never done a sales pitch before.

I personally am not interested in investing in something where all I may get out of it is some downloadable data. However the game does look good & I like what the gameplay designer was trying to say.

I do agree that should be open about their budget before asking for money. It would not go over well in the business world to pitch an idea without having a breakdown of budget to show the investors.

[calthaer]

An "investment" is something that provides you with a return on your money. A "purchase" or "pre-purchase" is where you give someone your money and get a product in return.

If Kickstarter did "investments" then I'd expect to be getting a share of the company and dividends on the sales to boot.

[Bojay1997]

An "investment" is something that provides you with a return on your money. A "purchase" or "pre-purchase" is where you give someone your money and get a product in return.

If Kickstarter did "investments" then I'd expect to be getting a share of the company and dividends on the sales to boot.

One of the problems with Kickstarter is that it is essentially a weird hybrid something along the lines of a "charitable investment" in that you are providing funds for a project in the expectation that your contribution will be rewarded with a product or some other premium in exchange (which really isn't much different than investing in a business in exchange for a profit stream or some other non-equity investment). Unfortunately, nobody has really tested in court just how far or to what extent a Kickstarter project is really an enforceable contract between the project creator and the contributor.

[treismac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHaPMUY0buk

Here's the new video for the project.

I think the game is looking rather sweet thus far.

[treismac]

Yes! My biggest concern about the River City Ransom: Underground game was its lack of original members working on the project. Well, that concern has now by and large been alleviated. Yoshihisa Kishimoto, the creator of Double Dragon, is now working as the creative consultant for the game!!! From RCR: U's website:

"From Day One we've understood the challenges of creating a sequel to a game with a loyal following, especially when we were not alumni members of the original's creative staff. We knew we'd need help if we were to recapture the spirit of River City Ransom on this project.

We are happy to report that Yoshihisa Kishimoto has agreed to join this effort as a creative consultant, advising us on art direction, the storyline, and the intangible elements that make a Kunio-kun game what it is."

https://s3.amazonaws.com/conatuscreative/yoshihisa-photo.png

While this might not be all of the alumni crew from Technos, it is reason enough for River City Ransom and Technos fans to rejoice (or, at the very least, breathe a sigh of relief). Awesome.

source:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/combitstudios/river-city-ransom-underground/posts/600499

[treismac]

So far $100,114 pledged of the $180,000 goal with 13 days to go. Damn. I hope it makes it.

Also, evidently there will be a night/day cycle in the game:

"One of the things that we’re doing that wasn’t in the original is that we will have a day/night cycle, similar to King’s Quest IV. The fact that time can pass, a shopkeeper can end their day, get in their car, and drive away is the kind of thing that we want to bring."

Could be interesting. *insert Castlevania II joke here*


*source:
http://plus10damage.com/blog/2013/9/25/it-finally-arrives-interview-regarding-river-city-ransom-underground

[treismac]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/conatuscreative/oneweek.gif

[treismac]

https://i.embed.ly/1/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Fconatus creative%2Fchallenger.gif&key=26b837c056ba477eb98e9d5a6a79d934

Ah Yeeeeah!!! Gotta love Abobo joining RCR: U. :D

[JSoup]

We get it, you've got a boner for this project.

[treismac]

We get it, you've got a boner for this project.

Damn straight. I'm breaking blocks of ice like Daniel-san in the second Karate Kid with it.

You know, JSoup, if we were to split the updates to this thread 50/50, it would be much appreciated. How about you take Sunday's live stream and I take tomorrow's?

[JSoup]

Nope, don't care about this. If I play it at all, it's because I got it through a Humble Bundle or free from PSN+.

[treismac]

Is there no solidarity between forum members who use avatars from Super Mario Bros.?

[Greg2600]

Looks like they need $1000 CAD per day with 3 days to go, so this may in fact happen.

[treismac]

Here's hoping they make it. :)

[treismac]

And it's funded. :D

Good stuff.