Tier lists for obscure or just plain bad fighting games?

[FrankSerpico]

I came across a Shoryuken thread on this topic but no one had posted in it for like four years so I figured I'd try getting something similar going here. I'm sure many of those who post here, especially anyone who lived through the 16-bit and 32-but eras, have at least some experience with these types of games. I'm gonna bust out SF: The Movie and Ballz later today and try and decipher some semblance of tiers. Anyone else who's ridiculous enough to enjoy bad tournament fighters as much as I do should feel free to contribute their own tiers/ideas etc. to the the thread.

[blue lander]

My favorite crappy fighter is Tongue of the Fatman.

[Koa Zo]

Mutant Fighters Death Blade (Brade) is an obscure game for the SFC.
It's a bit clunky, but I'MAX always produces unique graphics and characters, so I enjoy playing it.

Just recently learned that it was first available on the Sharp 68000 computer, and it may have also been an arcade game.

[FrankSerpico]

^I'd never heard of that one but it looks fun in a ridiculous sort of way. Found this clip of the FM Towns port:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZgXPz9lhXQ

I tried to play Ballz long enough to develop some semblance of a tier list this afternoon, but it's just too crappy to get me to care. Kronk, the little caveman guy, seems to be fairly effective I guess

[Rickstilwell1]

Unpopular meets mediocre - what I have played recently:

Some people hate on Tuff E. Nuff (aka Dead Dance) for Super Nintendo, but I found it pretty enjoyable. I beat it with all 4 characters on all modes. It gets more fun and interesting if you use the unlock enemy characters code for VS CPU. That way you get more than just 4 characters to play as (which is possibly the reason it was disliked by some.) To beat it on all difficulties with the 4 main characters you basically only have to play through the game 12 times, and you get passwords any level you lose on.

Mighty Morphin Power Rangers for Sega Genesis is as basic as fighters come. When it comes to the characters they all have the same basic normal and strong attacks and don't look much different from each other except the color of their suits. The controller has 3 buttons but only 2 of them do anything, as if this game was designed for TurboGrafx-16, Game Gear, Game Boy, Sega Master System or NES. If you are not playing this as a fan of the TV show and don't know anything about who is who, the only thing that separates them from each other is their special move which depending on the character can be tricky to pull off. For a fighting game it is also very short. You basically only fight 6 boss characters, 2 rounds each (and technically the 6th boss is just the 5th boss piloting a Zord of his own). Even Tuff E. Nuff is longer than this game. The saving factor here is that there are 8 difficulty modes. If you tried to play the game on all modes with all 6 characters, you would have to play the game 48 times.

In both of these games, I find that sometimes on the hardest modes your best strategy can be to get in close and jab multiple times with the weaker attacks. As the CPU level goes up you have less chances of swinging the hard attacks fast enough for them to not hit you first or block it.

[o.pwuaioc]

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/0/4/0/586040_38809_front.jpg

[8-Bit Archeology]

Ballz for the 3DO was the best port for that game yet still is a bit pooey.
Also I just couldnt get into Cosmic Carnage for the 32X. I felt as if I was playing a game in slow motion.

[Clownzilla]

Clay Fighter for any system is up towards the top of this list. They forgot to put a fighting game in with the eye candy. Some people like it but I have no idea why.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I hate to be that guy, but how about Street Fighter 1 or it's PC Engine CD release, Fighting Street?

[BricatSegaFan]

How about a tier list for the horrible super ultimate Street Fighter 4 or what ever it's called now? I really hate that game :banghead:

[treismac]

I hate to be that guy, but how about Street Fighter 1 or it's PC Engine CD release, Fighting Street?

Feel no shame. The original Street Fighter's game play was abysmal. The idea, however...


My favorite crappy fighter is Tongue of the Fatman.

Yeah. I wanted to like this game because it looked so damn cool to my young eyes, but, like, Street Fighter, the playcontrol was just not there.


How about a tier list for the horrible super ultimate Street Fighter 4 or what ever it's called now? I really hate that game :banghead:

This (not counting the movie game and the EX series) is the worst Street Fighter since the original. I could only play it for just a little bit before I put down the controller and walked away. Though I didn't play enough to give an honest assessment, I strongly recall feeling that jump mechanics were broken, hamstringing the game.

[FrankSerpico]

The only iteration of SF4 I played was the original, which I admittedly love. However I sold it along with my 360 so I don't have access to any of the updates atm. Think I'll try to get around to SF:The Movie on my Saturn today I remember Sawada and 'Gief being fairly beastly in that one...

[Crocket]

For me there was Street Combat. It was a boring game that was an Americanized port of a Ranma 1/2 game. Mind you the original Ranma 1/2 game wasn't that good but at least it had some cool stuff like the music which got the axe for Street Combat.

[blue lander]

I think I actually have Death Brade for the x68000. I don't think I ever played it because my X68000 didn't have enough RAM.

[Kiddo]

I remember considering doing a tier list for Battle Heat for the PC-FX, but in order for me to properly test that, I need a multiplayer opponent who is skilled enough for me to check if there's any way to either avoid or counter a jump-kick command. (That one move is basically easy street to beating AI opponents. If it's similar in competitive multiplayer then the tiers would basically be reduced to who can dish out the most damage or survive the most hits from that move.)

Anyway, I suppose the reason there aren't a lot of tier lists for older fighting games in general is because it's mostly the likes of Super Street Fighter II which introduced the idea of making a fighting game balanced enough for the sort of competitive sport it's become. I've always wanted to see if there was a retro title that could rival it's mix of balance and depth, but unfortunatley it seems fighting game communities tend to have a very "culture of the new" mentality.

[goldenband]

Great idea for a thread. I wish I could contribute, but only very seldom do I get the chance to play fighting games in 2P mode, since my fiancée dislikes them and I only see my brother (who does like them) a couple times a year.

In 1P mode, the infamously horrible Shadow: War of Succession (3DO) has a very simple character selection equation: anything with fireballs or other projectiles >>>> anything without. Playing Riggs, I spammed my way to victory on Hard mode within 90 minutes of starting up the game for the first time. How that would play out in 2P mode I'm not sure. Fist of the North Star for Game Boy has a similar thing going on.

Eye of Typhoon on 3DO would be an interesting one to check out; so would the different ports of Art of Fighting.

[pseudonym]

My mistake, I read the first post wrong. ;)

[kupomogli]

The thread topic makes no sense. Tier lists for obscure or bad fighting games, then you list bad fighting games and no tier lists.

[Rickstilwell1]

I don't think the OP myself, and others even know what a tier list is supposed to be.

[wayultratech]

Yeah, not sure what "tier list" means other than a ranked list of something, in this case terrible fighting games (?), but going off that inference;

Justice League Task Force for SNES - yikes this game is brutally redundant and boring. You'd think with a fairly good list of licensed super heroes (Batman , The Flash, and yes, Aquaman) you'd get a game experience that wasn't worse than watching early 90s nose-hair removal infomercials.

[Edmond Dantes]

I hate to be that guy, but how about Street Fighter 1 or it's PC Engine CD release, Fighting Street?

Wouldn't a character tier list be pointless for a game where there's only two playable characters who are exactly the same?


I don't think the OP myself, and others even know what a tier list is supposed to be.

Seriously? Well, I suppose we're not all hardcore fighting game fans...

a "Tier list" is basically a hierarchy of characters in order of quality. The higher up the tier a character is, generally is how good a character he is (in terms of how easy/strong he is in any given matchup).

Just for example: in Street Fighter II, Ryu and Ken would be considered top-tier, while Dan Hibiki would be low-tier (Yeah, I know, Dan wasn' introduced until Alpha... shut up).

....

Well, here's one attempt at answering the OP's question.

Ranma 1/2, Hard Battle for the SNES could be said to have the following tier:

Top-Tier: Ranma (either gender), Shampoo
Not-Quite-Top But Not Bad: Mousse.
Medium Tier: Akane, Ryoga

Anyone else is bottom tier, with a special mention to Gosunkugi for being so bottom-of-the-barrel (this is a guy who is an absolute non-combatant in the original manga, why the hell is he in a fighting game?)

[FrankSerpico]

My idea was to get a sort of group project started where people list tiers from games fitting the description I should have been more clear. For some reason my SF: The Movie disc isn't getting recognized by my Saturn. It's the Japanese version, but I was able to play my Japanese Panzer Dragoon Zwei right afterward with no trouble whatsoever. It doesn't even spin when I put it in the Saturn, any advice? Back to the topic at hand I played some Clayfighter: Tournament Edition on my Genesis last night here's the closes I could come to tiers:
Top-Bad Mr. Frosty: Has a charge move called the BASH which I suspected of sucking up more life than any attack in the game. After some research on gamefaqs turns out I was right.He also has at least three decent projectiles and deceptive speed for a "big guy" character. Bonker: Kind of like Stryker in MK3, you can win easily just by being a dick and spamming his projectile moves. Ickybod Clay: Just teleport around all day and spam his Ecto Ball, just a hadouken type motion. He also has an air dive move that's useful for forcing people into corners.

Mid-Tiny: Very good range on his regular punches, plus decent damage. Spamming his medicine ball move is something the CPU doesn't really know how to defend against.
Blue Suede Goo: Too slow for my liking, even though this whole damn game is floaty. Has a very limited number of special moves compared to most other characters but his regular attacks have fairly good range. His Hair Slice is pretty useful and quick to pull off if you're trying to fight out of a corner, one of the better moves in the game. Taffy: Seems to do a bit less damage on average than some other characters idk if that's really the case though. He is one of the faster characters and he has an array of special moves that are easy to pull off so he's not totally useless. Blob: This guy is probably my favorite character to play as and he definitely has the coolest looking moves of anyone in the game, but he's just not as good as characters like Frosty and Tiny.

Bottom-Helga: The whole game is basically a joke, but it's obvious they intended Helga to be the biggest joke character in the game. She does the least damage of anyone, she has a flying butt slam move that does zero damage for some reason, and she's just plain annoying.

[wayultratech]

Ahh, i get it (and dig the topic for sure!!) I'd love to see a tier list for Mortal Kombat Armageddon, there's so many characters to choose from, utilizing pretty much everyone from every MK title. I am gonna have to get some research in this weekend and post a tier list.

Regarding Street Fighter, would Akuma be top tier as well?

[Rickstilwell1]

In my case then, top tier for Tuff E. Nuff playable characters would be:

Tier 1:
Syoh and Zazi: They have projectile attacks that are easy to pull off just by guessing how to mash the buttons and are pretty well balanced.

Tier 2:
Kotono: Not as fast as Syoh and Zazi, but can reach very far with her strong punch/stab attack. This move is not quite so helpful in hard mode though.

Tier 3:
Vortz: Hard to master. I've had more success getting in close and using his throw moves than using any of his normal punch and kick moves. It really takes a lot of practice and strategy to find out which moves are good when the enemy is performing a certain attack. The game is still beatable on Hard using Vortz after many tries though.

The unlockable via code boss characters I haven't really tested. One of them is a clone of Vortz though so I would automatically place Gajet in tier 3. My guess is that Jade and K's have a chance to form their own tier above Syoh and Zazi due to how insanely powerful they are as opponents. I could be wrong though. It depends on how easy or hard it is to pull off their special moves. K's has an undodgeable electric attack that goes from the floor to the ceiling. The best a character can do against it is try to guard to take a little less damage.

[FrankSerpico]

Regarding Street Fighter, would Akuma be top tier as well?
In which game?

[wayultratech]

Pretty much any game he's in, the Alpha games to be more specific. He seems on-par or maybe even superior to Ryu/other top-tier characters.

[kupomogli]

Ehrgeiz isn't a bad game, but has a rep as the Final Fantasy fighting game because Cloud and Tifa were in the arcade version while Cloud, Tifa, Vincent, Yuffie, Sephiroth, and Zack(Cloud costume,) were in the PSX version.

Top tier I'd say is Mitsuda alone, who's pretty op. Higher tier I'd say are Tifa, Godhand, Vincent, Sasuke, and Yuffie. Everyone else would be lower tier, Django is the worst.

[FrankSerpico]

Akuma is a beast in Alpha, he was a hidden character in that one and they wanted to retain his SSF2T mystique. In Alpha 2 and 3 not so much. IIRC Chun-Li, Sagat and the non-Akuma shotos were the top tier in Alpha 2. In Alpha 3 V Akuma has some badass Custom combos and I remember him being popular in tourneys but honestly I was too lazy to learn how to play V mode effectively with anyone other than Rolento

[Neb6]

I recall when Kung-Fu master when it hit the arcades. Didn't like it then and I don't like it now. Way too limited of a game.

Rise of the Robots is another one that doesn't sit well with me. With a cool name like that, you'd certainly expect a better game.

[JakeM]

How about a tier list for the horrible super ultimate Street Fighter 4 or what ever it's called now? I really hate that game :banghead:

Me too, only the pro players make it look good, its just so boring.

Bad fighting games Ive played would be Shaq Fu, Clay Fighters, Street Fighter 1 and Karate for 2600.

[goldenband]

Bad fighting games Ive played would be Shaq Fu, Clay Fighters, Street Fighter 1 and Karate for 2600.

A tier list for Shaq-Fu would be interesting, actually. In 1P mode, I struggle most against Kaori and Colonel, but who knows how that would translate to 2P head-to-head action.

[Neb6]

Oh and of course -- Pit Fighter. What a piece of crap that game is.

[JakeM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UKzbsPcaLk


And Ehrgeiz isnt bad, its just an early 3D fighting game. I recently played Bushido Blade 1 and 2, man thats a great way way way way under rated game series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOzmdeacptU

[kupomogli]

And Ehrgeiz isnt bad, its just an early 3D fighting game. I recently played Bushido Blade 1 and 2, man thats a great way way way way under rated game series

I never said it was bad, infact, I said it wasn't bad in my post. The topic says "obscure or bad fighting games." So I listed Ehrgeiz since it's obscure.

[JakeM]

Ok, maybe you should have made two threads. Id say theres as many obscure good fighting games and there are bad fighting games people know of.

[Drixxel]

Years ago, I had an unhealthy fascination with Kasumi Ninja and I'd taken it upon myself to write up a detailed FAQ/move list, partially motivated by the fact that there wasn't one yet published on GameFAQs, but mainly because, in playing the game excessively, I'd been surprised by certain subtleties to the characters that I felt really ought to be documented. I can't find my uncompleted FAQ anywhere, but Alaric was my top pick among the Kasumi Ninja roster for having the largest arsenal and I seem to remember Pakawa's uppercut featuring a crippled range.

[JakeM]

Years ago, I had an unhealthy fascination with Kasumi Ninja and I'd taken it upon myself to write up a detailed FAQ/move list, partially motivated by the fact that there wasn't one yet published on GameFAQs, but mainly because, in playing the game excessively, I'd been surprised by certain subtleties to the characters that I felt really ought to be documented. I can't find my uncompleted FAQ anywhere, but Alaric was my top pick among the Kasumi Ninja roster for having the largest arsenal and I seem to remember Pakawa's uppercut featuring a crippled range.

You should try to get Naughty Dog to make a new fighting game. Itd be interesting to see.

[Az]

Unpopular meets mediocre - what I have played recently:

Some people hate on Tuff E. Nuff (aka Dead Dance) for Super Nintendo

OT but I really enjoyed Tuff E Nuff when I rented it years back when it was first released and had a lot of stupid fun with it, probably more than I should had. I picked up the Japanese version a year or so ago so I could play it uncensored as it was originally intended, but I cant seem to find any code to unlock the CPU characters like in the US version.

Does anyone know if that code even exists in Dead Dance, or was it something added to the US version? There's PAR codes to play as the bosses, but they're much more cumbersome to deal with than the regular code. All the characters have their movesets programmed in and aren't glitchy like most PAR codes to play as bosses, which makes me think a code for it should exist.

[Drixxel]

You should try to get Naughty Dog to make a new fighting game. Itd be interesting to see.

You must be thinking of Way of the Warrior, Kasumi Ninja was the work of the long-defunct Hand Made Software who were presumably a second party developer for Atari. Kasumi Ninja 2... haha, there's a thought.

[Kiddo]

As I tried to think back on this, I realized there's usually a good reason why most "older" fighting games don't have tier lists.

Since many fighting games of the era were still experimenting with the genre (and the tournament scene was still starting to grow), there wasn't very much care for balanced fighters in the genre before the likes of Super Turbo and Virtua Fighter 2. You can clearly see this in Mortal Kombat, where the way to win basically boiled down to "pick a boss character or Kung Lao", or most console fighters you could judge the character tiers by the physical traits of the characters themselves (Someone who looked overpowered was overpowered. Someone who looked like a joke character was bad at best, and sometimes didn't even have attack mappings.)

That's not to say all of them were like this - I remember TMNT: Tournament Fighters for SNES being seemingly as nuanced as classic SF2, for example. Still, this is most likely the reason the "Tourney" scene sorta pretends any fighting game before Super Turbo doesn't exist.

Of course, this is why I'm interested in this - I would love to see if there's, well, an upset, just like in actual fighting game tournaments. What if an overlooked game like Joy Mech Fight or such is not only well-balanced, but fun to watch at a tournament?

[FrankSerpico]

I'm gonna try and work up some tiers for Outlaws of the Lost Dynasty/Dark Legend tomorrow. Haven't played it in too long