Majora's Mask. Love it or hate it?

[Coptur]

I've always had a love / hate relationship with The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. It had its positive aspects. The atmosphere was there. A sense of impending doom was certainly there. And when you'd get to dungeons, usually, that was very "zelda feeling".

Overall, I think this is a decent game. But as a Zelda game, I'm not so sure. I know MANY people despise this game, and many love it. I'd like to hear BOTH sides of the argument. So what I'm hoping for is you give me at least 5 good reasons you love the game, or 5 good reasons you hate it.

Lets get to the bottom of weather this game os great or stinks!

[Satoshi_Matrix]

To really enjoy Majora's Mask, you need to forget about, and stop comparing it to, OOT.

That is the single biggest hurtle one needs to overcome, and why most don't like the game.

Majora is much darker than Zelda games typically are. 72 hours to prevent the apocalypse. A fate destined to repeat over and over. The sense of urgency causes the player to prioritize, and ensures that they will try different things on different playthroughs.

Many of the themes are downright depressing, and I think that it stands in sharp contrast to OOT in that the whole thing is more tightly focused.

I really think the game is often misunderstood and unfairly compared to OOT. It's not OOT, and it's not trying to be. Still, as much praise as I'd like to give it, this was the game that introduced us to Tingle.

That aside, I can't not love Majora's Mask.


http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/13/134096/2182348-majoras_mask_web.jpg

[Edmond Dantes]

Put me squarely on the "Hate" side. Majora's Mask was actually the first nail in the coffin for the Zelda series for me (and then later the Oracle games convinced me Zelda was dead).

Don't get me wrong... at first Majora's Mask seemed like a good game with an interesting premise, but then I learned about the Three Days gimmick. Oh god, the three days gimmick. A game where you constantly have to re-do the things you've already done. Great design, Nintendo.

If they had only reworked that gimmick so it was less miserable, then I would've enjoyed the game. But that one thing made me hate the game.

[The Adventurer]

Don't get me wrong... at first Majora's Mask seemed like a good game with an interesting premise, but then I learned about the Three Days gimmick. Oh god, the three days gimmick. A game where you constantly have to re-do the things you've already done. Great design, Nintendo.

Um. Actually the game is so well designed you rarely have to repeat your actions as you progress.

The 'Groundhogs Day' mechanics is actually brilliantly executed and frankly a bit of a change of pace from the usual 'Dual Nature' aspect Zelda often goes back to the well on (specifically Link the Past and OOT relying on Light World/Dark World and Past/Future respectively)

For Me Majora's Mask is the game that shows that Zelda still has life in it, because it get get out of its typical mold and still be an epic experience.

Majora's Mask. Definite Love.

[Mayhem]

I loved. Some aspects of it are better than OoT. And the premise is definitely darker and more brought to home if you experience everything it has to offer.

[wiggyx]

I hate the 3 day thing as well. Sucks the joy out of exploration when there's a timer on it. I played it through, enjoyed it as best I could, but will likely never revisit because of the timer.

[A.C. Sativa]

I hate all of the 3D Zelda games. That series died after Link to the Past, as far as I'm concerned.

[Tanooki]

I'm mostly hate in the love hate. I don't ever compare it to Ocarina, but to the series published and developed by Nintendo alone on the whole I do. I love the concept of the story itself and the general 3D-Zelda era mechanics play fine enough too. My specific beefs with it lie within the annoying three day clock and the mechanics around it. In a wide open game like Zelda I like to take my time, explore, uncover, and find things. MM makes you play beat the clock, eventually you can get a mask to mess with it to a degree, but that comes later. Earlier on you lose your progress and more short of what you can shove into that bank which sucks, it's like a bad re-run. I also did not much like the concept of the hub town you kept going back to, and most of the masks and retrieving them felt like this annoying chore which had little fun or merit. The game just felt backasswards annoying compared to what I had played up to that point back on the N64.

Due to the love hate on the game and with the smaller amount of those totally infatuated with it I'd give them in my own right every few years a try to see if I missed something or age would improve it. Nope. I got it again on the GC multi-game disc collection, and in the last 5 years (last was maybe 3-4mo ago) I've had it on a gold cart too. Each time I can tolerate it an hour, two tops, and I just erase the data and sell it. But I do really like the story, so I keep those Zelda manga around Viz translated and get my fix off that modified version of it.

[Guyra]

Love the game! And had never any problems with the timer at all. :)

[JakeM]

A kid was asking about it at the store I was at today. He ended up buying Ocarina instead after I said it was really different from Ocarina. He just wanted a normal Zelda game he was familiar with, and the 3 days to accomplish tasks seemed really tough to his mom.

I get too claustrophobic with it, but I like that its different, the world is very interesting and creepy.

[Tupin]

Absolutely love. It's actually kind of funny that Nintendo's attempt at a "dark" Zelda game still wasn't as dark as this one. I always find it funny though, when people complain about Wind Waker having so few dungeons. This one only had four real dungeons, and it was great.

[Tanooki]

Dungeon count was never an issue for me, or the sailing, probably just was a convenient thing to move the bitching to since all the crybaby 'cel-da' garbage tapered off after people realized how damn well it suited the game and hardware. That was the last (Wind Waker) Zelda game I ever truly loved, finished, and replayed a bit of it on more than one occasion. It felt like a well suited apology for majora's mistake to me. Too bad when Twilight came out they had to bloat out a huge slow to cross world with a good bid of boredom shoved in because the story and darkness to it was great, and had it saved better without losing walking progress and moved a bit quicker like Wind Waker I think it would have been solid too.

[kupomogli]

I hate the 3 day thing as well. Sucks the joy out of exploration when there's a timer on it. I played it through, enjoyed it as best I could, but will likely never revisit because of the timer.

My opinion is also this. After completing the first fetch quest and getting a mask, I quit. This really turned me off to the game.

[Tanooki]

Glad to see I'm not alone on that. The game is one Long list f hurried up chores one after another.

[eskobar]

To be honest, I don't understand how the 3 day mechanic limits the exploration ... in fact is the opposite, is absolutely brilliant to explore a game world that changes in subtle and not so subtle ways every day and sometime every hour. Is not like you have to finish the game on one run, you can restart to day one whenever you want to.

Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda because of the complex design and playing it without a game guide is a joy, several quests are really intense and very interesting, specially when you figure out how to reach the end of some, like Anju and Kafei's Quest ... it pushes the player to almost reach the 3 day limit, really amazing !.

Gameplay wise, it is a bit harder but as any Zelda, always great controls and always the tools to solve a puzzle at your disposal; getting all the heart pieces is not an easy task :)

[SpaceHarrier]

I can't stand it. Ugly environments, the timer, and chatty NPCs put me off quick. The only thing I like about it is the artwork that exists outside the game.

[leatherrebel5150]

Glad to see I'm not alone on that. The game is one Long list f hurried up chores one after another.

You guys know you can slow time down to like 1/2 or 1/4th speed with the Ocarina? Once you do that the 3 day cycle lasts longer than most would be willing to play in one sitting anyway. There is no repeating quests either (maybe except the Kafei and Anju one if you want to 100% the game) once you do it once you can just ignore it.

It's the best Zelda game IMHO.

[BlastProcessing402]

It was the first Zelda I never bothered to beat. Not a bad game, not at all, just the whole timed aspect gets on my nerves after a while. I think if you kept more stuff on looping back to day 1 it would be better.

[Tanooki]

Yes like if your efforts altered time in some odd way present to 3 days back where you lose nothing of progress or have to worry about banking it would have helped a bit, but still the game was just too chatty and the masks mostly were just annoying to bother with. I like the story and the art entirely, but playing not one bit still. It was the first console Zelda game I not only never finished but sold it out of disgust.

[Tupin]

This thread is the first I've ever heard about the game being "too chatty."

Never had that problem myself.

[wayultratech]

I love Majora's Mask for many reasons, it seemed so big when it came out. Collecting all the different masks and seeing their effects, all the side mission stuff with crazy/weird/whimsical characters, it seemed so massive for a Zelda game, even coming off of OoT.

The 3 Day mechanic also was executed well, as already mentioned in this thread, rarely would you find yourself having to unavoidably redo stuff, you pretty much only had to redo stuff when you screwed up. Being able to speed up or slow down the flow of time made it easier to complete your objectives in the game too, cutting down on having to redo sections.

Awesome game in my opinion!!

[TheRetroVideoGameAddict]

I was never a big Majora's Mask fan, I loved Ocarina of Time to death but I just couldn't get into MM. It felt like a filler game that came out to get a quick boost in sales for the N64 and to satiate Zelda fanboys and get people to think the N64 had lots of good games.

[AbnormalMapping]

This one of the few times where the fans let a AAA company down.

Cynics looked at Majora's Mask, and saw only the reused models and limited dungeon set. Many quit the game, complaining that the pressure of the 3 day cycle prevented them from exploring long enough to learn how to slow down the clock...

This isn't a game you can enjoy if you simply want to kill things until the credits roll. There are thousands of games that already exist for that audience.

What Majora's Mask is, is something much rarer - this is the game Shenmue wanted to be, despite having nowhere near the budget. Every NPC in this small town has their own story to tell. It's alive in ways few other stories told in any medium are ever allowed to be...

And it's still the only console game I've ever played where racism is not only acknowledged, but is a central gameplay mechanic. So too are emptiness, longing, and shame...

And they manage to tell all of this from a child's perspective, as if it were all a child's dream.

What really drove the stakes home for me wasn't the end of the world when I failed. It was a lie about the end of the world. On the very last night, as everyone ran away to the countryside in the hopes they might survive the destruction of Clocktown, one woman, knowing they were all about to die anyways, told one excited little girl that she was finally big enough to have an adult drink*, and that when she woke the next morning, everyone would celebrate.

The little girl went to sleep, happier than she had ever been...

*In the early to mid 90's, America frequently censored any alcoholic references. In one of the most sarcastic subversions of a videogame trope ever made, once the milk leaves the cows in Majora's, everyone in the entire game just shamelessly acts like it's alcohol. You'll run fresh Southern mooshine down dirt roads, shooting arrows at greedy rednecks all the way, and deliver it to an adults only club, where the lonely adults inside just want to drink their pain away in peace. It's just one of the many ways they get away with murder - besides all the times they actually murder people, of course.

[SuperEliteGamer]

I liked it,but not as much as i liked OoT.
It felt more unique and harder,though.

[Ed Oscuro]

@ AbnormalMapping: Beautiful post, thanks so much. Very thoughtful and well-written. You better be working on a novel or something.

A bit of perspective (thanks to Rob at Shmups Forum):

http://www.segabastard.com/rub/oasiszelda.html

Majora's Mask is not a perfect game, I'm sure, but it was great to have the pressure on with the three-day timer. LoZ games typically suffer in pacing, with big gaps between combat, rupee-hunting, and puzzling - and the Zelda games typically don't make combat interesting or fun. In Majora's Mask you definitely can still suffer from these same problems and flail around harder than before due to the time limit, but the day limit gives that a sense of purpose. I suppose it could be frustrating if you're a bad or unobservant player who needs to repeatedly cycle back to the first day to do small puzzles, but if you can let the game's timeline direct your actions and resist getting mentally stuck on things that aren't immediately important (like obsessing over mask hunting opportunities if they are available on the first day only - excuse me if I've got the details wrong, it's probably been a decade since I've played the game!) then it should start to look good again.

It's also worth mentioning that the four-dimensional aspect to the puzzles was a welcome breath of fresh air over the extremely simplistic puzzles of many other games since the original title.

[Tanooki]

That's not perspective, that's gamer elitism and rudeness. Basically that's saying the Zelda format isn't much good and lags a lot, plus is simplistic for simple minded people. That only those who are good gamers can appreciate MM for what it is working under the stress of time and knowing how to think fourth dimensionally which is pure snobby bullshit. If the formula was so good and so loved then why has it not been returned to since? Ocarina had some fourth dimensional thought once the temple of time was opened both ways and was executed far better without the pressure. To truly think fourth dimensionally one must understand time and in knowing time you can benefit manipulating it and using the differences.

Plus if you look back even Nintendo back the admitted the game was just a cash grab and attention getter they threw together kind of hastily due to the n64 sales problems later in life to get some added sales using the existing game engine.

[Ed Oscuro]

If you want to just throw a fit and disregard it because it doesn't coddle you for your cherished beliefs, that's up to you. But that doesn't mean there's anything rude in a carefully thought-out analysis.

Beyond Oasis is probably closer to modern games than LttP, if only by degrees. It has in many places the possibility for emergent gameplay - a kind of distant cousin to games like System Shock 2 - although I would agree that most of the time it's not needed.

LttP is a uniquely weak game that also happens to be revered, even within the LoZ franchise.

Speaking of rudeness, exactly what is your point about Nintendo "admitting" something or other about MM supposed to prove? Whether or not Nintendo or the masses understood what they were seeing matters not at all to me. It's about understanding what makes a good game, something that Nintendo quite often completely forgets (i.e., I played some of Weegee's Mansion recently).

I have to ask - how can you look at LttP and not immediately conclude that the game, with its cookie-cutter dungeons and Mushroom Kingdom-lite theme, wasn't itself anything but a shameless cash grab? That door swings both ways!

[JSoup]

I initially wasn't interested in Majora's Mask because of the three day time limit. I tend to not like games that limit my playtime with an arbitrary clock. What actually convinced me to get it was a Software Etc. salesman who offered me a decent deal on the bundle (came with the game and the N64 expansion pak) if I preordered. After playing the game, I can say that it's not my favorite Zelda game or even in my top five, but it's still really damn good. The game was excellent at freaking me out. The music having this doom song playing under every theme, the fatalistic nature of all the characters, the general difficulty spike from Ocarina of Time making quick deaths for unprepared players all the more common.....pretty stressful game to play on your first go.

[Tanooki]

Not having a fit, you came off as snobby and rude with the tone of the analysis and if luigis mansion let alone one of the very best Zelda titles to you are poor cash grabs you clearly have a uniquely strange grasp of what a good game is and I can't see anything productive arguing with you would do as it would be pointless going in circles.