SEGA Mega Drive turns 25 years old this month

[parallaxscroll]

On October 29th, the Sega Mega Drive will be 25 years old. That's a quarter of a freaking century. I cannot even believe it, yet it's true.


http://www.segagagadomain.com/hardware-mega/megadrive-jpn.jpg

http://www.segagagadomain.com/hardware-mega/megadrive-jpn-hard.jpg

You know something, I was not even aware that a 16-Bit Sega console existed in late 1988, even though that was only in Japan at the time. All I owned then was an already-outdated Atari 7800. I didn't get the Master System until early 1989. It wasn't until June of 1989 that I heard of Genesis, thanks to a recorded message left on 1-800 USA-SEGA. Wow you know? Heh, the following month, in July, I discovered Electronic Gaming Monthly--It was EGM #2 with their 16-Bit system preview that I found out what Genesis was all about as well as what the new Sega console looked like. My father bought my brother and I the console around the middle of April 1990, right around the time Phantasy Star II and Herzog Zwei reached U.S. stores.

Anyway, even though it's not the 29th yet, use this thread to celebrate a quarter century of memories :D

[EricThaDead]

Man, I like the Japanese/PAL models a lot more than the ones we got in the states. That big "16-bit" looks sweet, and the PAL Mega Drive model 2 had the red power and reset buttons. (I'm a sucker for red, lol)

[MidnightRider]

I really hope this gets celebrated. I've been digging deeper into the Genesis' library lately. A lot of really cool stuff that was released, but unfortunately went overlooked.

I don't think the Genesis looks different enough to be worse looking than the Mega Drive, honestly.

I've seen different looking default pads, I had one with red arrows(coming from the D-pad cross) and button lettering. Eventually got a 6 button. Still the best pad for fighters(before you say it, really they just added triggers for the Saturn, it's still a Genesis 6-button otherwise).

Somewhat off topic:
I've been looking at various forum discussions of the console wars, and videos on Youtube, and it seems like there's more ignorant SNES fanboys nowadays than there were back then. Even the SNES deserves better than to have that for a class of fans, but the lack of respect they give the Genesis really gets on my nerves...

[Tron 2.0]

HBD to one of my favorite consoles.On my 2nd one now after buying one again back in 2012,after i missed having the console.At least in price the used market for it is fair compared to the snes :p Not to mention i still think the genesis 6 button controller,is for more comfortable to use compared to the snes controller.

[jefis]

It was my first console. So much nostalgia. In my teen years I gave it away (stupid me), but now I bought one again, and I've got 150+ games and growing. Great console, great times. Happy Birthday!

[Rickstilwell1]

It was my first console as well. I got it bundled with Sonic 1. I never knew it before but my original system was one of the worse revisions of the Genesis 1 sound-wise. Still growing up I didn't think that model was bad at all but now I see why my Genesis 3 made the video look much clearer through RF. I had one of the later Sonic 1 bundles so the controller had the white markings instead of red, but the extra controller I got from my ex stepdad the next Christmas had the red markings. To this day I like Sonic 1 better than Sonic 2 for its level design and graphical direction.

[PizzaKat]

I never had one growing up, but i do remember it being displayed in 1990. Of course it was overshadowed by everything Nintendo. I thought it looked great but was never a fan of the controller. I was programmed with the NES controller for any gaming.

[MidnightRider]

Of course it was overshadowed by everything Nintendo.

Ironically that only happened with time. At the time, it was actually the more popular of the 2 consoles(except in Japan).

In fact, I've found a couple sources that suggest Sega took the U.S. market. The problem is that people focus on the final numbers, without understanding what happened at the time.

In '95, Sega stopped production of the Genesis right away, to focus on the Saturn, while the SNES had about 2-3 years of non-competitive sales, to more than catch up.

This is just guessing on my part here:
I think the issue was that Sega just had no experience with a successful console, while Nintendo knew, from the NES, to keep the older console on the market longer, as people aren't just ready to afford a new console right away. Sega kept making that mistake, they pulled the Saturn for the Dreamcast, just as development for the Saturn was hitting it's stride.

Now, years later, collecting seems to have put more importance on Nintendo's older consoles/handhelds than anything else. The same thing seems to happen with all sorts of classic collecting. One thing gets seen as more important than another, for whatever reason, and here we are with Nintendo and Sega dicussions.

Edit:
*unrolls old controller* Did I have some freak of nature controller or what? Thing has a 5 foot long cord. There was a video about the console wars and the guys at Retro Liberty were complaining about the length of Genesis pad cords, and then I see the picture at Wikpedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_genesis

[SparTonberry]

I think the issue was that Sega just had no experience with a successful console, while Nintendo knew, from the NES, to keep the older console on the market longer, as people aren't just ready to afford a new console right away. Sega kept making that mistake, they pulled the Saturn for the Dreamcast, just as development for the Saturn was hitting it's stride.


Maybe in Japan it was hitting its stride, but in North America, Saturn sales were a trainwreck.
It is said that one of the reasons Dreamcast failed was because third-parties were upset Sega was pushing the DC ahead because of a poor performance outside their native market. (and too many American gamers felt Sega hit too many strikes already?)

[Rickstilwell1]

Ironically that only happened with time. At the time, it was actually the more popular of the 2 consoles(except in Japan).

In fact, I've found a couple sources that suggest Sega took the U.S. market. The problem is that people focus on the final numbers, without understanding what happened at the time.

In '95, Sega stopped production of the Genesis right away, to focus on the Saturn, while the SNES had about 2-3 years of non-competitive sales, to more than catch up.

This is just guessing on my part here:
I think the issue was that Sega just had no experience with a successful console, while Nintendo knew, from the NES, to keep the older console on the market longer, as people aren't just ready to afford a new console right away. Sega kept making that mistake, they pulled the Saturn for the Dreamcast, just as development for the Saturn was hitting it's stride.

Now, years later, collecting seems to have put more importance on Nintendo's older consoles/handhelds than anything else. The same thing seems to happen with all sorts of classic collecting. One thing gets seen as more important than another, for whatever reason, and here we are with Nintendo and Sega dicussions.

Edit:
*unrolls old controller* Did I have some freak of nature controller or what? Thing has a 5 foot long cord. There was a video about the console wars and the guys at Retro Liberty were complaining about the length of Genesis pad cords, and then I see the picture at Wikpedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_genesis

Some Genesis systems were bundled with controllers with short cords, as did my original. Others were bundled with controllers with much longer cords. I wish I could pinpoint which revisions of which complete boxed systems came with which types of cords. The RF switches and AC Adapters had variants as well.

You know how people complain about Genesis 2 adapters not fitting in certain consoles well, sometimes being loose? That's often because they mismatched the AC Adapter and console revisions. One has thicker plastic around the tip while the other is thin. If you count the Genesis 3, I have seen 4 different shaped Genesis 2 compatible adapters and 2 different shaped Genesis 1 compatible adapters.

[MidnightRider]

Mine was still a model 1, "high definition graphics" and all, came with Sonic(end of '91), and the pad has red arrows and button lettering.

[parallaxscroll]

Genesis was my third console: 7800 > SMS > Genesis.

Got the original version of model 1 with Altered Beast. Also got the later model 1 with Sonic in 1991. Never owned a model 2 or 3.

[Melf]

In fact, I've found a couple sources that suggest Sega took the U.S. market. The problem is that people focus on the final numbers, without understanding what happened at the time.

It did take the market. Sega outsold Nintendo for several holiday seasons in a row and had the lead in the American 16-bit market for most of it. It wasn't until it abandoned the Genesis for the Saturn that Nintendo caught up.

Have you seen the Retro Liberty "Why We Retro" documentary? It's very one-sided. They should have called it "Why We Nintendo" because that's all it included (except for some comments by Gamester81 and Metal Jesus Rocks). I understand that they all grew up with Nintendo, so they're speaking about what they know, but if you're going to call it a documentary, then you may want to include fans of other consoles. There were more than a few mistakes and inaccuracies. There was also practically no mention of the TG-16 at all.

[MidnightRider]

Hmm, well according to Spiffyone at GameFAQs, when Majesco brought out the Model 2 and 3, the Genesis went back to outselling the SNES.

Gamester81 put this one up, once again, very 1 sided toward the SNES, except for the same 2 individuals, and Chargebackforward:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFJVizqsy1o

The video being biased toward Nintendo doesn't bother me half as much as the stupid comments you'll see if you dig into the comments section.

[parallaxscroll]

Even though Nintendo did sell more Super Famicom / SNES consoles than Sega sold Mega Drive / Genesis consoles, Sega outsold Nintendo holiday 1991 and again in 1992 and 1993.

I'm pretty certain that Nintendo pulled away by the end of 1994 with Donkey Kong Country.

So while Nintendo did outsell Sega in the 16-bit era, Sega effectively split marketshare with Nintendo worldwide, thus ending Nintendo's iron-grip stranglehold monopoly on the console market. That was an incredible feat since Nintendo had more or less, 90% of the 8-bit market.

[SparTonberry]

"brought out the model 2"? Do you mean a rerelease because I'm sure Model 2 was originally Sega.

I guess it's not too surprising if the Genesis 3 sold more. As I recall it was only like $30.
Didn't the SNES Jr. run at least $50? (I can only remember later kicking myself when I didn't pick up one when I saw them on clearance for like $25 with a Yoshi's Island pack-in in like 1999.)

[Scotterpop]

The Genesis/Mega Drive is the only console I own from three different regions (US, Japanese, and PAL European). So, yeah, I do love me some 16-bit Sega! God, I can't believe it's been 25 years since its debut. One of the best gaming machines ever made, easily. To celebrate, let's all chant together: "SEGA DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T!"

[MidnightRider]

It really did too. I mean let's look at the RPG's. That's one area the argument will give the SNES, but look at them all. The same kind of random battle gameplay, or fantasy setting type amongst all the localized SNES RPG games. Now look at what little the Genesis had localized. Phantasy Star, a random battle series, but with a sci-fi setting. Warsong, to be fair the SNES did have Ogre Battle. It also had a Langrisser game that didn't get localized, which is exactly what Warsong was for the Genesis. The SNES had, I believe, 3 Fire Emblems. Not a game in that series got localized until the GBA, after Smash Bros. Melee introduced the west to Ike. The Genesis had 2 Shining Force games, both localized. The only rogue-like the SNES had, Fushigi no Dungeon 2: Fuurai no Shiren, never left Japan. The Genesis had Fatal Labyrinth. Sega really did what Nintendidn't.

[SparTonberry]

It really did too. I mean let's look at the RPG's. That's one area the argument will give the SNES, but look at them all. The same kind of random battle gameplay, or fantasy setting type amongst all the localized SNES RPG games. Now look at what little the Genesis had localized. Phantasy Star, a random battle series, but with a sci-fi setting. Warsong, to be fair the SNES did have Ogre Battle. It also had a Langrisser game that didn't get localized, which is exactly what Warsong was for the Genesis. The SNES had, I believe, 3 Fire Emblems. Not a game in that series got localized until the GBA, after Smash Bros. Melee introduced the west to Ike. The Genesis had 2 Shining Force games, both localized. The only rogue-like the SNES had, Fushigi no Dungeon 2: Fuurai no Shiren, never left Japan. The Genesis had Fatal Labyrinth. Sega really did what Nintendidn't.

No sci-fi? SNES had EarthBound (too bad it was a victim of its own ads, released during a time when NoA's marketing thought barf-inducing ads were cool). Chrono Trigger. Robotrek (you play as a nerd that creates robots to fight for him. Random turn-based battles but you do get some direct control of the robots).
Okay, Genesis had Fatal Labyrinth, but I want to guess companies just didn't think Rougelikes were in demand (SFC actually had at least four I can immediately think of: Fushigi no Dungeon 1: Torneko's Adventure, Milandra, and Dunquest (by Technos, after they mostly stuck to Kunio and Double Dragon).
I do agree there was a missed opportunity by not localizing a single TRPG on SNES (Ogre Battle is RTS), and they had a boatload to choose from, including Shining Force's cousin FEDA - The Emblem of Justice. (Enix announced Tactics Ogre but their American branch closed before releasing it, and it was probably too late in the SNES life cycle for anyone else to want it)

[Dashopepper]

Its interesting that here in the semi rural midwest Sega had little to no presence when I was younger. The only person I knew who had one was an only child who got everything. Even at a high school reunion a couple years ago I was talking to a group of people who knew I collected, I was surprised how little people knew or were interested in the genesis. (It was seriously crickets chirping.)

Its a cool system though. A different experience for sure. I finally picked up one a few years back an now have +150 games. Great system to collect for.

[MidnightRider]

No sci-fi? SNES had EarthBound (too bad it was a victim of its own ads, released during a time when NoA's marketing thought barf-inducing ads were cool). Chrono Trigger. Robotrek (you play as a nerd that creates robots to fight for him. Random turn-based battles but you do get some direct control of the robots).

I was referring to the overall setting/feel of the game. Earthbound has a Modern setting, which I'll admit is definitely original. Still never got the appeal to the that game though. Chrono Trigger had a fantasy setting, barring 1 era of time travel. Robotrek admittedly escaped my memory, but still doesn't quite feel like Phantasy Star. Some of the RPG's that never left Japan did though.


(SFC actually had at least four I can immediately think of: Fushigi no Dungeon 1: Torneko's Adventure, Milandra, and Dunquest (by Technos, after they mostly stuck to Kunio and Double Dragon).

Will make a note of that. Actually wanted to see a fan translation for Milandra, but I didn't know it was a rogue-like.

I did know of Feda, I just didn't think of it when I made that post. There was nothing like the adult content in that game in the Shining Force games, so I can see why NoA wouldn't have wanted to translate that, but at the same time you'd think NoA would have learned from Mortal Kombat. Which is an area where Nintendo fans owe a little respect to the Sega, because without that competition MK2-UMK3 would have been severely neutered.

Come to think of it, do you suppose Star Fox and DKC would have come into existence if not for the competition with Sega?

Anyway, my earlier post on the RPG's was just trying to highlight how different Sega's approach was, even with a genre they didn't have much of.

[Melf]

Between the Genesis and Sega CD, there are over 70 RPGs, almost as many as there are shmups. It's funny that people complain the Genny has no RPGs but too many shmups, when in reality it has almost an identical amount of each. Granted, that's including Japanese games, but many of those are playable despite the language barrier or have been fan translated.

The Genesis is no slouch in the RPG department.

[MidnightRider]

Most of that would be western style though, wouldn't it? I think that's why the genre is lesser known for the Genesis. It had a lot of PC style games in general(come to think of it, does the SNES have a sandbox game like Pirates! Gold?). No one really goes out of their way to compare some SNES Ultima to D&D: Warriors of the Eternal Sun. RPG "fans," within console gaming, are usually just JRPG fans.

Personally I like to look at the console on it's own, without the add-ons. I'm not a fan of disc video games in general, and I think the Genesis/Mega Drive can hold it's own without.

Edit:
Hey, if I'm sounding like an idiot here, don't be afraid to let me know. I'm just trying to figure things out, as to how the general perceptions seems to be favoring the SNES nowadays. ...and why the SNES seems to be attracting idiot fanboys... Even as a Genesis backer, I feel the SNES deserves better than that. Plus it seems to be a 2 way street. You'll see fanboyism(though not necessarily on the same level) in the comments section of Sega biased videos as well.

As I said in my first post, I've been looking more into the Genesis' library, which seems far too unknown for some reason. Perhaps because it's so varied.

[BlastProcessing402]

Man, I like the Japanese/PAL models a lot more than the ones we got in the states. That big "16-bit" looks sweet, and the PAL Mega Drive model 2 had the red power and reset buttons. (I'm a sucker for red, lol)

I'm with you on the big japanese 16-bit, but the white on PAL model 1 (where it's red on NTSC) looks like they forgot a paint app or something. Cheap and bad looking IMO.


(before you say it, really they just added triggers for the Saturn, it's still a Genesis 6-button otherwise)

Not in America. That pad was entirely different (at least until the "round button" Saturn revision was released) though I do have a 3rd party Saturn pad that's even closer to the 6 button Gen pad than even the "good" Saturn pad.

[GhostDog]

What a beast of a system. The Genesis/Mega Drive was my introduction to the world of SEGA and all the magic that came with it. Strider, Shadow Dancer, Sonic 1 and 2, Streets of Rage 2, etc. was when I really fell in love with the Genesis as a kid. I didn't have all of these games at first but a cousin of mine who lived in the same apartment complex did and I would come over and give the games a playthrough. I was blown away with the greatness that was Genesis in the early 90s. The catalogue of games was amazing and luckily most of the best games for the system came out in the U.S. with the exception of maybe Alien Soldier and a handful of others.

[j_factor]

Most of that would be western style though, wouldn't it? I think that's why the genre is lesser known for the Genesis. It had a lot of PC style games in general(come to think of it, does the SNES have a sandbox game like Pirates! Gold?). No one really goes out of their way to compare some SNES Ultima to D&D: Warriors of the Eternal Sun. RPG "fans," within console gaming, are usually just JRPG fans.

You'd think that would be less true now that games like Skyrim are so popular.

Personally, I never made the distinction between Western and Japanese RPGs so strongly in my head. To me, Shadowrun (Genesis) and Secret of Mana are the same type of game, and the same goes for Eye of the Beholder and Shining in the Darkness. The closest SNES equivalent to Pirates Gold would probably be Uncharted Waters (also on Genesis), which is great, and happens to be Japanese.

[skaar]

I still love that headphone jack. Back in the day my gaming TV was the broken TV where the sound was screwed due to blown speaker and someone trying to fix it managing to kill the sound completely. I had a set of PC speakers without volume control on them that I could hook right into the Genesis for gaming awesomeness.

[MidnightRider]

@GhostDog:
Not counting Seganet, I'd say some of the best also include:
The Daze Before Christmas (Australia, SNES also has it, same region and Europe)
I want to say Wily Wars(Europe), but they messed up on the sound front with that one(those screw enemies in MM3 especially...)
Golden Axe 3 (Japan)
Bare Knuckle III (Japanese Streets of Rage III, just a better version)
Pulseman (Japan)
Yuu Yuu Hakusho (Japan, also by Treasure, and an early 4 player fighter)


@J_factor:
It may just have to do with how people remember things. I believe western RPG's started gaining some steam around the late 90's with titles like Baldur's Gate, Fallout, and Diablo, but once they started getting released on Microsoft consoles(Elder Scrolls, Knights of the Old Republic, etc.) is when people really started to take notice.

After some thinking, I realized one of Sega's big mistakes, not on the Genesis itself, but affecting how people remember them in general, is that they never really followed up on their franchises going from console to console. The best you got on the Saturn was a fighting game rendition of Golden Axe, and a new Shinobi. Oh and a Sonic racing game. Then going from Saturn to Dreamcast you've got Dynamite Cop(sequel to Die Hard Arcade), Virtual On, and House of the Dead 2, probably others I'm not making the connection to. The main point being they should have followed up on stuff like Nights and Panzer Dragoon, while also keeping up with Shinobi, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, etc. Meanwhile Nintendo is still giving the same franchises they've had since the NES, SNES, and N64. I think that sequelitis, and Sega's lack of, unfortunately, is what affects how people remember these companies/consoles.


@Skaar:
In a sort of similar situation, I was never good with electronics, and I would have been happy with just the T.V., but my brother hooked the Genesis up to the speakers of a stereo system. Worked out pretty well.

[parallaxscroll]

I loved the earliest Genesis television commercials produced in 1989 that aired until the early part of 1990. I'm talking about the ones that were 'We Bring The Arcade Experience Home'.

These were the main examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1OiItVnEuQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx08BJ7Wmeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7zGafJB-yE


Those actually aired well before the 'Genesis Does What Nintendon't' commercial campaign which did not start until the around early spring of 1990 going through that summer & fall.

[MidnightRider]

I didn't realize Zoom was one of the earliest titles. Might explain why that one is so overlooked.

[MidnightRider]

This is going to be next Tuesday, I'd hate to see the thread fall through the cracks before then.

I've been thinking about it, and this ignored console is secretly one of the most influential of all time.

1)It took the market share from Nintendo, proving that the dominant company could be equaled, let alone flat out beaten.

2)Unlike in the previous 2 generations, it showed that more than 1 console could be successful at the same time, which, combined with the previous point, opened the doors for Sony and Microsoft. I may not care about gaming beyond the 4th generation myself, but for those that are still into what gaming is, that can't be a bad thing.

3)It opened the doors for more mature gaming, or content that would otherwise be too much for the audience that Nintendo still targets to this day. It proved that people grow up while still playing video games, and that video games can grow up as well. As I sad before, if Nintendo were dominant the whole while, games like Doom, Doom Troopers, and the latter Mortal Kombat series either wouldn't happen, or be severely neutered, like the original MK was.

[devilman]

The Mega Drive was the first console I got heavily involved in. I'd had a Master System for a while but never really had the money to get as many of the games I'd have liked, but by the time the Mega Drive came along, I had a bit more money and there were more shops selling second-hand games (never really bought new). Interesting to see the RPG discussion - with Shining Force 1&2, Shining in the Darkness and Landstalker for starters, they occupied me hours on end, but I also enjoyed the less-revered port jobs of Might & Magic and Buck Rogers too.

[parallaxscroll]

I didn't realize Zoom was one of the earliest titles. Might explain why that one is so overlooked.

Although it was not a launch title, Zoom! came out both in Japan and the U.S. in January 1990.

The game dates back to 1988, made by Discovery Software for the Amiga, Commodore 64 and MS-DOS PC.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/zoom

[thom_m]

The Mega Drive was the last console I got as a birthday present from my parents; it was already the dawn of the Playstation era; I was always a gen or two back when it came to gaming. It was a Model 2, which is know here in Brazil as the "Mega Drive III" because they named the Model 1 Sonic bundle as "Mega Drive 2". I still have it; it's lacking a power brick and av cables. I play a modded Genesis I got on a trade from a member of these very forums.

I love the MD/Genny. Back in the console wars days, I was a Mega Drive backer all the way; the SNES guys liked to trash it because it had "inferior" graphics and sound; but, as much as I love the SNES (and I do!), I guess variety, fun factor and creativity were always on the MD's side. An "odd" game like "Haunting Starring Polterguy" would never find a home with Nintendo.

Recently I bought a "Gopher" handheld and was pleasantly surprised of how much use that thing is getting. Emulation problems aside, it made me "fall in love" with the system again, and remember how awesome its library can be. Long Live the Mega Drive!

[parallaxscroll]

I consider myself fortunate that I got a Genesis not too long after launch, in early spring 1990. By that time, some of the gamers in my school had the chance to form decent opinions about the new consoles, Genesis & TurboGrafx-16 and how they related them to the regular NES. Well before the SNES launched in the U.S. there was a mini console war between Genesis and TurboGrafx-16. Between Sega and NEC. At first, in late 1989 and very early 1990, more people seemed to like the Turbo better. NEC had more software out. Many people seemed to think Turbo games played better. However by summer 1990 and especially fall, Genesis was the clear winner in every area one could measure. Marketshare, mindshare, game lineup, 3rd party support and advertizing. Genesis had an awesome fall/winter lineup with games like Strider, Thunder Force III, Sword Of Vermilion, and in Jan 1991 came Shadow Dancer and Joe Montana Football.
Genesis was becoming the system to own, even before Sonic came along in the middle of '91.

I bought SNES the day it launched in late August 1991. This was the first Nintendo system I owned, the first system I bought at launch, and not counting Super Mario World packed in, Pilotwings was the first Nintendo game I ever purchased. I probably bought an equal number of Genesis and SNES games.

I went from being a "casual" gamer in the late 80s to kind of a "hardcore" gamer in the early 90s with all four 16-bit era consoles: Genesis, SNES, TG-16 and Neo-Geo.

Great memories all round.

[MidnightRider]

^Really? Well, I know who to call when I need a loan :p.

Christmas of '91. Coming off the NES, I wanted an SNES, I think that's the reason anyone did, really. My dad actually thought the Genesis looked better by comparison, when he went shopping. Can't say I was disappointed, I think I was just happy to have a new console. Plus this was when Sonic became a pack-in game, so you really couldn't ask for a better deal.

I don't care if anyone prefers the SNES, I just want the Genesis to get the respect it deserves. You aren't much of a gamer(if you want to be called that) if you can't at least respect every aspect of it.

[8-Bit Archeology]

Genesis is a great system. So many games had me hooked as a kid. And to this day theres still more out there I havent played. Whenever we talk about our first memorable boss fight at my shop the first that comes to mind is the lfloating head beast on Sub Terrainia.

I just picked up

Landstalker
Rocket Knight Adventures
Adv. Of Mighty Max
And Shadowrun<- wooooo

So excited. Plus seeing this thread just reminds me of how bad I want the Overdrive by Titan cart, which is in lack of a better term ... Epic. Its cool to see just what genny can do.

[Gunstar Hero]

I have a lot of love for my genesis (and the sega cd attatched to it) but since i got it last in the scheme of when I bought my consoles, I still havent picked up enough games for it. I'm thinking this month is a better time than ever to pick up some more Genesis titles :)

[zektor]

You know what is funny is that I imported a Sega Megadrive (through some magazine) a few months before the USA release. Wouldn't you know the USA model was released (bought it at Kay-Bee on launch day!) and TWO days later my Megadrive arrived. I thought it was weird and cool at the time that when I inserted USA game carts they were "different" in the MD. Like Revenge of Shinobi becoming "The Super Shinobi" and Mystic Defender guy wearing a "dress". Ahh..the good old days. Happy b-day MD.

[Emperor Megas]

It wasn't until June of 1989 that I heard of Genesis, thanks to a recorded message left on 1-800 USA-SEGA.That was how I discovered the Genesis as well. I remember the recording: "Genesis is coming, and your world will never be the same." They also talked about the TeleGenesis modem, that would "allow you to play with friends across town, or across the country." I was a little disappointed that it was never released. Though we did later get X-Band, and the SEGA channel.

[MidnightRider]

2 days now.

I feel like I gotta say something. I've been digging, and I most likely still don't have enough info. If you're still reading this one, I think I could use your help to set the record straight on this, Melf.

Without trying to be incendiary against one, or biased toward another, I want to take as quick a look as I can at SNES vs. Genesis, or really, just re-evaluate what the Genesis brought to the table.

SNES advantages:
*Can display more colors on screen, which naturally can lead to more detailed looking sprites.
*Sound chip can sample real instruments, and has an extra couple of sound channels overall. Overall more advantageous with wind and brass instrument sounds.
*7 built in display modes. Probably makes it easier for programmers, wouldn't know myself.

Genesis advantages:
*Processor is a bit over twice the speed of the SNES'.
*More sprites on screen. Can lead to better animations, to the point where animation studios have helped in the development process(Disney with Aladdin, and Gainax with Alisia Dragoon).
*Under composers that know how to utilize it, electric instruments sound better on the Genesis(because of those that don't however, there are exceptions).
*Data can compress better on Genesis cartridges. Can lead to extra content(an extra level in Earthworm Jim, new gampelay mode in Street Fighter 2, 2 more characters, which were there in the arcade version, of WWF Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game, etc.).

The gist of it being that the SNES has an aesthetic advantage, while the Genesis has horsepower. This, I believe, is what colors opinions in thinking the SNES is "superior," since it's advantages hit the senses right away. However the Genesis's advantages need to be seen in action, and the most unobservant of us can miss it.

Example: Earthworm Jim. The Genesis version has more frames of animation, but most people will miss that because they're not animators, interested in animation beyond watching it, or otherwise observant enough.


Overall unit sales:
I'm more inclined to believe the more recent numbers for the Genesis, which would bring it toward almost 40 million world wide. This number was reached through multiple reports, and not from Sega themselves.

There seems to be more evidence lately, including the Wikipedia page for both consoles, that supports the fact that the Genesis outsold the SNES in the U.S. market. If the SNES' sales in the U.S. market were 23.5 million, then that would put the Genesis' U.S. market sales at closer to 24 or 25 million. Now according to Nintendo's report, the SNES sold about 17-18 million in Japan. Reports state that the Genesis sold about 3-4 million in Japan. Combined at the maximum possible number of each region, the Genesis would have 29 million units. Which is the number of early worldwide sales reports for the Genesis. Considering the fact that Sega as a whole is much more popular in Europe and South America, where, again, according to Nintendo's reports, they sold a little over 8 million, that would put the Genesis around 9 or 10 million. If we can go by the maximum overall number of Genesis sales in all regions, that would be about 39 million, nearing 40 worldwide. Scaling it down, 39 million to the Nintendo report of 49 million, while Japan had a 13-14 million lead on the Genesis, would indicate that the Genesis did so well in the entire western hemisphere, that the overwhelming sales of Japan had to factor in, just to have a 10 million lead. This still gives the worldwide win to the SNES, but not by the 20 million lead early reports gave, and only due to Japan.

If those Nintendo reports were accurate to begin with. It's not hard to believe a company would exaggerate it's sales. The info on the Genesis had to really be dug up, while Nintendo put it's info out there, and everyone just took that at face value.

Coincidentally, the URL that would lead to Nintendo's report is now a Japanese error page. In 2013, the same year Sega decided to make exclusives for Nintendo's current console.



About some games:
TMNT:
This one's an opinion. I saw the Sega-16 look at the TMNT games, and while I won't consider Hyperstone Hesit to be the better overall game, I do think I like it better. 2 particular ways that I do. I like the darker colors on the Genesis. Hyperstone Heists turtles bandanas and joint pads, not to mention just their skin, look better in the darker colors, where they just look too bright in TiT. Also in the ship stages, HH's wood actually looks like the color of wood, where TiT has too much orange to realistically seem like wood. Even if that's perfectly arcade accurate, the Genesis games colors just look better to me. The other aspect is the sound. I actually like that the scratchy noises aren't there, or aren't there as much(I can't recall all the music). To me, it takes something away from the music.

Street Fighter 2:
I'm trying not to be biased here, and I don't think I am, but I honestly can't see how anyone could objectively choose Turbo over Championship Edition. I saw 2 review that did just that, one video, one written, after all but explaining that CE was better. It has the intro and animated "continue?" screen as the arcade, graphics and other animations that are missing from the SNES (and TurboGrafx) version(s), and an exclusive gameplay mode. In the next 2 generations, an arcade game brought to home console, with an exclusive gameplay mode, automatically became the better version. In the written review, the SNES won because of "graphics consistency." In the video review, the SNES won because of the stock controllers that came with the consoles. Objectively speaking, the Genesis has everything the other versions have, with slightly worse graphics(well coloring really, the graphics are the same) and music(that area's subjective actually), but more animations and graphics, and a new gameplay mode. How can CE be the worse game?

Rock 'n Roll Racing:
This is one of those sound exceptions I mentioned earlier. Rock/Metal is usually a genre the Genesis excels at, but something went wrong here. In capable hands, the SNES would probably still sound better due to the sampling ability of it's chip, but the Genesis should have been able to put up a better fight. Still, the bass came out better on the Genesis, and potential compression issues aside, it's easy to see why the Genesis was chosen for the exclusive track, Radar Love. I still actually prefer the Genesis version because of that though. The fewer sound channels means the announcer breaks up the music, but since he gets repetitive after a while, and you can turn him off, the extra song makes the music rotation less repetitive, since you'll be racing quite a bit throughout.

I don't care about "superiority," but the Genesis/Megadrive was a very capable, seemingly grossly misunderstood console, that deserves a lot more respect than it seems to get, by what I have to assume are children/teens that weren't there when it was current, and shouldn't, but nothing will stop them from doing so, open their mouths to begin with.

[Koa Zo]

[...]
Without trying to be incendiary against one, or biased toward another, I want to take as quick a look as I can at SNES vs. Genesis, or really, just re-evaluate what the Genesis brought to the table.

[...]

I don't care about "superiority," but the Genesis/Megadrive was a very capable, seemingly grossly misunderstood console, that deserves a lot more respect than it seems to get, by what I have to assume are children/teens that weren't there when it was current, and shouldn't, but nothing will stop them from doing so, open their mouths to begin with.

Who cares?

At this point anyone who has an interest in classic games should have enough intellectual maturity to value a console on its own terms.
The whole SNES vs. Genesis battle is beyond played out.

[Alianger]

SNES advantages:
*Can display more colors on screen, which naturally can lead to more detailed looking sprites.
*Sound chip can sample real instruments, and has an extra couple of sound channels overall. Overall more advantageous with wind and brass instrument sounds.
*7 built in display modes. Probably makes it easier for programmers, wouldn't know myself.


MD does sampled instruments and can play at least two at the same time (see Skitchin' or Alien Soldier). They're just lower quality and the stereo panning is more primitive (goes for the FM as well, and the PSG part can't be panned) in that it's either all left, all right or in the center.
SNES also has built in transparency. MD games would simulate it with blinking sprites, shadow/highlight mode (See Ranger X or Mega Turrican) or dithering (checkerboard or vertical line patterns). There's other stuff but I'm no expert.



Genesis advantages:
*Data can compress better on Genesis cartridges. Can lead to extra content(an extra level in Earthworm Jim, new gampelay mode in Street Fighter 2, 2 more characters, which were there in the arcade version, of WWF Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game, etc.).

I've read somewhere that the coding takes up more space on MD than on SNES, but I could be wrong.
Don't forget that in general the MD games had slightly higher resolution. I don't know how a higher res would affect the SNES' performance, just that some multiplatform games had lower res (Earthworm Jim, Great Circus Mystery).

A good place to ask more about tech stuff might be spritesmind.net, NintendoAge or the Sega-16 programming forum.

[GhostDog]

The Genesis was one hell of a system that was playable throughout the 90s. Sure, the allure of the PS1, Saturn and N64 was already there, but the Genesis still provided some solid entertainment. Just check out all the awesome games for the system. Here's a GameFAQS list. I don't necessarily agree with the order of the games ranked, but I think most of them are there. How anyone can deny the greatness of the Genesis/Mega Drive is beyond me:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/916377-genesis/61260047

Not to mention Robocop vs Terminator was so much better on the Genesis/Mega Drive than SNES. Admittedly, I haven't played the SNES version, but from the videos that I saw there really is no reason when both of the versions were compared. The Genesis/Mega Drive version looked so much better with the animations and the blood and gore that was included in the Genesis version. Here's a video showcasing the differences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6-vUtSB2TA

[MidnightRider]

@Koa Zo:
I know I shouldn't, but I've seen the argument come up so much recently, Youtube videos and stuff, and it was like Genesis people could be respectful and say they prefer the Genesis without flaming, but SNES had fanboys that would be incendiary about it. I don't look at all SNES owners like that, that's why I have to assume it's not anyone who was an SNES owner at the time. You'd have to be crazy immature to still think on a plane where "what I support rules, and what I don't sucks donkey ballz!" at an age that you could have owned one of these consoles when they were new.

Basically, it got to me, brought out the inner Sega fanboy, which I'm trying not to be. I do appreciate the other consoles(love the TurboGrafx-16 as well), it's just irksome to think there's going to be younger generations that really think so little of the Genesis, or Sega as a whole.

That and I kind of wanted a big post to celebrate the Genesis' 25th, accurate or inaccurate as any of it may be.


@Alianger:
Thanks for the extra info. I knew I didn't have everything, and there's more I'm sure. The 40 million number for the Genesis is about right though, but after seeing Wikipedia, which changed since I last saw it, my estimated distribution of how each region sold is a bit off.

The compression thing may be off, I just thought I read that at least Earthworm Jim compressed better on the Genesis, explaining the extra level. It's why I asked to have the record set straight.

Even if it could be proven the SNES is just more powerful in every aspect overall, I could accept that, I just kind of want to know once and for all, what is it each can do better than the other. Unfortunately, trying to find that just leads to more bias.


@GhostDog:
Yeah, well, you'll never agree with everything on a top # list.

I like watching Teddy's channel too, but he might lean too much toward the Genesis. I understand though, he isn't much for the type of games on the SNES, and I'm getting to not be much of an RPG person myself.

[Koa Zo]

@Koa Zo:
I know I shouldn't, but I've seen the argument come up so much recently, Youtube videos and stuff, and it was like Genesis people could be respectful and say they prefer the Genesis without flaming, but SNES had fanboys that would be incendiary about it. I don't look at all SNES owners like that, that's why I have to assume it's not anyone who was an SNES owner at the time. You'd have to be crazy immature to still think on a plane where "what I support rules, and what I don't sucks donkey ballz!" at an age that you could have owned one of these consoles when they were new.

Basically, it got to me, brought out the inner Sega fanboy, which I'm trying not to be. I do appreciate the other consoles(love the TurboGrafx-16 as well), it's just irksome to think there's going to be younger generations that really think so little of the Genesis, or Sega as a whole.

That and I kind of wanted a big post to celebrate the Genesis' 25th, accurate or inaccurate as any of it may be.

Ah, right-on.
And sorry to be a downer on your post, I'm just so far removed from knowing or hearing anyone who wears blinders like the stereotypical "fanboys."
When I do see posts that make the comparisons I often feel like they are just perpetuating the situation. However I'm neglecting to consider there is a whole world of people out there in youtube and elsewhere on the internet just reveling in and echoing their own ignorance and closed mindedness.
So, yeah, I guess I need to understand that arguments for and against systems still need to be formulated to counter the immature players out there.

Of course the Genesis/Mega Drive is a fantastic system!
It was the first system I purchased with my own money, and I love what it offers in every way imaginable. Its shortcomings don't matter because I have a dozen other systems to choose from if I need more color, or more sound channels, or whatever. When I need a great 68000 powered action game or shmup etc, I know the Genesis will always be there for me!

[MidnightRider]

Well, admittedly, at this point it's probably more of a personal quest for more knowledge.

I don't know if Sega remembered, or this is just coincidental and coinciding with Thursday, but:
http://www.screwattack.com/news/sega-says-guts-will-be-tuesday

Edit: Some more advantages for both.

SNES:
*Transparency. The SNES can make better transparent effects, like clouds/vapors that can be seen through. When the Genesis tries similar effects, the same kind of clouds/vapors look like an awkward pattern of mesh fencing, or something.
*Background scaling. Used to make objects in the backgrounds appear to be coming closer/moving away. Best example I could think of might be the final boss battle in Yoshi's Island.
*Massive 3rd party support. To the point that while major companies like Konami and Capcom developed their properties on the Genesis, they practically still remained loyal to Nintendo.
*Continuation of major franchises from the previous generation (let's face it, this above all, is why anyone wanted one)
(could mention screen rotation, but I believe that's part of the SNES's 7 display modes, and nothing the Genesis couldn't compensate with programming)

Genesis:
*Sprite scaling (growing/shrinking effect, probably covers more, anyone with more insight?)
*Sprite rotation (3D objects turning)
*Less 3rd party support. 3rd party is a double edged sword, and by lacking in sheer volume compared to it's competition, there are a lesser overall amount of crappy titles on the Genesis(but then, the same could be turned around and said for the TurboGrafx-16).
*Doesn't say much of anything for the consumer, but easier to program for.

Got most of those for the Genesis from an interview with Masato Maegawa (of Treasure), and multiple interviews from Sega-16 on the easier to program for thing.

Edit 3: Not a typo.
Just learned of the background scaling last night, which lead me to believe Masato Maegawa was talking about sprites. So in summary, graphics wise: The SNES has more colors, and can do more with it's backgrounds, while the Genesis can do more with sprites(characters, playable and enemies; and background items not tied to the overall background imagery).


Edit 2:
Looking at the written SFII comparison I mentioned earlier...:
http://retro-sanctuary.com/comparisons%20-%20Real%20Street%20Fighter.html

...I've come to realize something. There is no such thing as better graphics between these consoles, including the TurboGrafx-16(and that's Hue Card, not CD). At least in regards to sprites. If a sprite artist could create an image, it would still hold up with the same amount of detail, no matter which console it was displayed on. The difference is that the SNES would have better coloring, being able to fill details with more colors, thus giving the appearance of more detail.

[MidnightRider]

(if this happens, I swear I won't double post often)

Since this is the day itself, Happy 25th to the MegaDrive. (Genesis in about a year)


Sorry to keep the comparisons going, but I've read posts where SNES fans wanted to talk about speed. 4 games were brought up. Uniracers, Speedy Gonzales, Road Runner, and there was supposed to be some small fast character in one of the Clayfighter games, like a mouse or something? Anyway, it's not like a character moving on a screen in a genre that's background barely scrolls, really competes with the rest. Speedy moves at a good tick, but not at Sonic's level. Uniracers, while impressive(in the later, faster stages), has simple pattern backgrounds for the entire game, on a simple track. The track has curves, and obstacles, like goo to slow you down and whatnot, but still. It basically needed to cut it's graphics down to almost nothing to move that well. So the only real competition is Road Runner's Death Valley Rally. He certainly moves, there's no doubt about it.

I went to check out the Genesis Road Runner game, Desert Demolition. Turns out, it's a fairly slow paced game, no matter who you control. When I went to use the Road Runner, the first stage had a lot of timed jumping, no particularly lengthy stretch of land to run on before being stopped by walls/gaps to jump, and when he does get up to speed, he's not moving as fast as when he does on the SNES. Heck there are even moments of slowdown in that first stage, when you're trying to run past 6 or 7 anvils dropping at once. Then I got to stage 2...

...where there are loops, longer stretches of ground, and potentially less overall platforming. When you get, and use a speed boost, bump into a spring(which there are some on that first stage), or these spinners that propel you along the ground... Death Valley Ralley's Road Runner eats Desert Demolition's Road Runners dust!

It's a better crafted game overall too. Part of the problem with games like Uniracers and Death Valley Rally, both really good games mind you, is that you're too far along the screen as you pick up speed, to be able to react to what's coming very well. In uniracers case, since there's no obstacles that can do you in except time, it's not so bad. In DVR's case, the speed boost does allow you to plow through enemies and obstacles, if you know when they're about to show. In Desert Demoltion, you're always centered, unless you're going through a loop at top speed, in which case, RR almost outruns the screen, but there's never enemies/obstacles to get in your way at that point.

Definitely a game I would have picked up if I knew about it back then. The ability(which the game defaults on) to play as Wile E. is a great addition too. This was by Blue Sky Software, who also did Jurassic Park, so it seems they often explored with the concept playing as the other side of the coin, which is always a cool concept, and needed/needs to happen more often.

[FoxNtd]

Happy Birthday Mega Drive! :bday:

[homerhomer]

The Sega Genesis is pretty awesome for arcade ports. I can remember renting a Genesis for $20 when they first came out. I was hooked on Forgotten Worlds and Super Hang On.

Games like;
Strider
Forgotten Worlds
Gauntlet
Paperboy
After Burner II
Golden Axe
Outrun
Super Hang On
Road Blasters
Rolling Thunder II
Frogger ( LOL )

Good times!

[Tron 2.0]

Speaking of the recent sega genesis 25th,retronauts had a podcast about it.
http://www.retronauts.com/?p=391#comments

[MidnightRider]

Usual issue in that podcast. Too little seems to be known in general about the Genesis, and how well it actually did. I have to wonder if Jeremy would have set some little things straight.

I don't know what kind of a surge for Nintendo DKC caused, but Sega still won the U.S. market. It's kind of there in the numbers too. 40(million) Sega to 49 Nintendo. Nintendo had a 14 million lead in Japan, so Sega doing as well as it did in the rest of the world nullified 5 million of that lead.

Hypothesizing about Nintendo's extra Japanese 3rd party support:
Nintendo did have those contracts, but I think a lot of it, especially since the internet wasn't much of a thing at the time, was Japanese developers seeing Nintendo dominate the Japanese market, and assuming it was the same worldwide. How would anyone know how well the consoles were doing elsewhere in the world?

Edit:
Nope, even Jeremy thinks DKC was the magic that pushed Nintendo ahead, while they were still competing. Sega left the 16-bit market in '95 to support the Saturn, probably the mistake that lead to their ultimate downfall(not supporting the Genesis in the Saturns early years, I mean). In the meantime, it took Nintendo 2 years to edge out a non-competing Sega in overall sales, if the Majesco model 3 doesn't get counted as Genesis units.

[GhostDog]

SEGA has always been ahead of their time. The Genesis/Mega Drive was released in 1988 in Japan and to think the system still held up well into the 90s makes it so much sweeter. The 90s without a doubt was the best era for gaming both console and arcade.

[MidnightRider]

@GhostDog: I hear ya on that last sentence. Well, before 3D and discs anyway :p.

I realize Koa Zo was right the first time. I mean we're 16(technically 18 for the Genesis) years removed from when these consoles were relevant. The problem is people, and the groups we split ourselves into for whatever irrelevant, inane reasons. No one should have to feel like they need to justify their choice, and that's where these ridiculous console wars always lead.

That said, I still want to explore the Genesis' library more, if just to dig up some hidden gems for my own sake.