The Best and Worst Mini/Slim Console. I.E. Sega 3 or NES Top Loader

[8-Bit Archeology]

So I have noticed that so many of the consoles had a mini/slim, version/revision. It doesn't matter if its old or new, I am interested in the workings of why one is better over the other. And am curious on opinions of what you think the Best and Worst minis are.

I am wondering if getting these minis could help out my shelf space. Right now I have a PS2 Mini/Slim and the Genesis 2. Out of those since they are the only ones I have had, I never noticed a difference. At least not between the PS2 fat and slim or the Genny 1 and Genny 2. <-is there?


Thanks. :)

[MidnightRider]

My understanding is that the Genesis 3 is basically the same as 2(worse sound than 1, but not horrible sounding), but incapable of connecting to the Sega CD and 32X, and doesn't play Virtua Racing.

[theclaw]

Sega CDX when it works is a marvel, jam packed with features. They didn't even cut SMS mode or RGB out.

On the opposite side Wii Mini plain fails to impress me from pictures. Admittedly we're not the intended audience anyway.
Its design strays so far from the "iconic" Wii look, to the point of baffling. And less space efficient since it top loads.

[8-Bit Archeology]

Is there modding needed to play sms on the cdx?

[Atarileaf]

I like the SNES 2/jr/mini. It seems to have escaped the dreaded yellowing that plagued the first generation of the SNES 1 (I say first generation because I'm led to believe that there was a revision within the original SNES that changed some internal components and perhaps in some cases decreased the chances of yellowing)

[Rickstilwell1]

Is there modding needed to play sms on the cdx?

No, and with Stone Age Gamer's new Power Base Converter mini cartridge adapter, the way the original fits is a non issue.

[GhostDog]

So many people trash the PS3 super slim that came out last year but I love it. From my experience it also reads the discs much quieter than the slim that I previously had. It's so much slimmer too and takes up less space and I actually like that it's a top-loading system. The PS3 super slim is a much more efficient system than the previous models.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

the slim PS2 is easily the best slim/mini console ever made. It condenses everything that's great about the PS2 into a device that's barely bigger than two DVD cases while having a far more reliable laser and power supply. It's also much quieter, and with an optional stand, can be placed vertically, taking up even less space in your entertainment cabinet than the horizontal position. It's ridiculous how well it's designed.

[wayultratech]

Agreed on the amazingness of the PS2 slim, with one asterisk....

I've had my PS2 slim for a number of years and earlier this year it began refusing to read discs if a weighty object (Timothy Zahn novel, Gamecube controller or whatever is of comparable weight) wasn't perched on top of the PS2 slim console lid.

I know this is a semi-common issue, and honestly i really don't care that much as the console is otherwise remarkably reliable and ultra compact.... Alundra, play on!!!!

[Tanooki]

Going by the topic title, I think the Sega Genesis 3 removed the z80 chip or something to that effect as Virtua Racing won't run on it, nor will it take the addon systems including the Power Base (SMS) I think too (not sure.) It just was a cheaply as made as possible ghetto box Majesco had a hand in. The NES top loader is a mixed bag of pain and pleasure really as the pain is the annoying 'jailbars' if they annoy you and most units aren't immune to it, but the pleasure if no lockout chip, no stupid flickering, games firing up far easier, and quietly capable of running many PAL titles is a nice thing along with the comfy controllers.

That SNES remodel was very nice too, super crisp and clean audio and visuals too, only failing which isn't to most normal people, they stripped out s-video as an option.

[starsoldier1]

NES Top Loader all the way, the games work so much better now on that machine.

[buzz_n64]

In my opinion almost every slimmed down version of a console is less desirable because the redesign limits peripherals and certain games that would originally play well on the original hardware. Even on the "good" slim systems this is the case.

NES 2 - No A/V
Genesis 3 - No cd/32x/Virtua Racing
SNES 2- No A/V
PSone- Many ports removed for peripherals
PS2- No Hard drive compartment
Wii slim- No backwards compatibility with Gamecube games and many ports removed
PS3 slim and super slim - No backwards compatibility with PS2 games, a decent percentage of fat models had this

[Rickstilwell1]

In my opinion almost every slimmed down version of a console is less desirable because the redesign limits peripherals and certain games that would originally play well on the original hardware. Even on the "good" slim systems this is the case.


SNES 2- No S-Video
Wii slim- No backwards compatibility with Gamecube games and many ports removed



fixed

[The Adventurer]

No, and with Stone Age Gamer's new Power Base Converter mini cartridge adapter, the way the original fits is a non issue.

Oh. My. Gaaaaaaaawd. I've been waiting for someone to make one of these for AGES. Its cheaper to buy a Master System itself then to get a Power Base Converter!


I wonder if anyone will ever build a device that lets you play Game Gear games on a Master system. Should only need some kind of pass through device I'd suspect... based on the existence of the Master Gear.

[theclaw]

Master System 2, badly needed as the size is, went all the way down to RF only. Well except France but then you're stuck at 50hz.

[o.pwuaioc]

Master System 2, badly needed as the size is, went all the way down to RF only. Well except France but then you're stuck at 50hz.

A modded MS 2 though is a very awesome thing. I happen to have a modded model 1, but every day I take it out (no more room left with other consoles) I'm tempted to sell it and get a modded model 2 instead.


I like the SNES 2/jr/mini. It seems to have escaped the dreaded yellowing that plagued the first generation of the SNES 1 (I say first generation because I'm led to believe that there was a revision within the original SNES that changed some internal components and perhaps in some cases decreased the chances of yellowing)
Besides the lack of s-video, there also was no power indication light. I don't like that. Same with the NES TopLoader.

Personally, as far as revisions go, I prefer:

NES TopLoader modded
SNES model 1 tabs removed
Master System 2 modded (maybe, haven't tested the quality yet)
Genesis model 2 + CD2 + 32X
NGCD toploader
7800 (saves on having to get a 2600)
PS1, later model, but not PSOne
PS2 slim
original, white Wii
Saturn model 2 modded, not a size difference, but more chips are compatible with this model

[Atarileaf]

Besides the lack of s-video, there also was no power indication light. I don't like that. Same with the NES TopLoader.


Bah. I turn on the machine, if a picture comes up on the screen, I know its on. Not really a deal breaker for me.

[SparTonberry]

Oh. My. Gaaaaaaaawd. I've been waiting for someone to make one of these for AGES. Its cheaper to buy a Master System itself then to get a Power Base Converter!


I wonder if anyone will ever build a device that lets you play Game Gear games on a Master system. Should only need some kind of pass through device I'd suspect... based on the existence of the Master Gear.

Short version: the Game Gear is an expansion of the SMS architecture.

I believe Game Gear games I/O ports can crash the SMS if they try to access them (and those ports include the link cable, JP/western console detection used by a few games, and most important: the Start button).
Also the GG has a higher color palette than the SMS, and even the Genesis (12-bit vs. 6 for SMS and 9 on Genesis).
GG games were also dependent on only the center of the screen being visible, ex. Brazilian Tec-Toy SMS ports of GG games.
(though some GG games were effectively SMS games as they would use the SMS mode in the GG, which shrinks the SMS higher resolution down to the GG lower resolution)

[Ed Oscuro]

NES Top Loader all the way, the games work so much better now on that machine.
But most of them look worse than the originals (jailbars).

A/V Famicom units (identical cosmetically) don't seem to have this problem at all.

[A Black Falcon]

In my opinion almost every slimmed down version of a console is less desirable because the redesign limits peripherals and certain games that would originally play well on the original hardware. Even on the "good" slim systems this is the case.

NES 2 - No A/V
Genesis 3 - No cd/32x/Virtua Racing
SNES 2- No A/V
PSone- Many ports removed for peripherals
PS2- No Hard drive compartment
Wii slim- No backwards compatibility with Gamecube games and many ports removed
PS3 slim and super slim - No backwards compatibility with PS2 games, a decent percentage of fat models had this

A few corrections - the SNES 2 has A/V. What was removed was S-Video.

Also, the Wii Slim also has no internet support whatsoever, so not only does it not have GC support, it also cannot play WiiWare or Wii Virtual Console games, or play any Wii games online.


For another one, the Majesco Game Gear is more reliable than the Sega model, but doesn't work with some Master System adapters and doesn't work with the TV tuner.

Also, the Gamecube's revision removes component video output.

[wiggyx]

My understanding is that the Genesis 3 is basically the same as 2(worse sound than 1, but not horrible sounding), but incapable of connecting to the Sega CD and 32X, and doesn't play Virtua Racing.

Also won't play gargoyles and isn't compatible with the Game Genie (though a very simple mod restores functionality of both games).


I like the SNES 2/jr/mini. It seems to have escaped the dreaded yellowing that plagued the first generation of the SNES 1 (I say first generation because I'm led to believe that there was a revision within the original SNES that changed some internal components and perhaps in some cases decreased the chances of yellowing)

Just different plastic formulation. Excess flame-retardant in the SNS-001 is what caused the issues (and is well documented at this point).


Bah. I turn on the machine, if a picture comes up on the screen, I know its on. Not really a deal breaker for me.

This. Also, adding an LED is really easy, and restoring S-vid is too tricky either :)

I think every 360 revision made the console better and more reliable without removing any features (aside from a USB port or two, iirc).

[Alpha2099]

Wow, reading these comments about Genesis 3 reminded me that I had a childhood friend who owned one. Never realized how many disadvantages and drawbacks it had before now.

[ApolloBoy]

Going by the topic title, I think the Sega Genesis 3 removed the z80 chip or something to that effect as Virtua Racing won't run on it, nor will it take the addon systems including the Power Base (SMS) I think too (not sure.)
That's actually not true, the Genesis 3 (and the VA4 revision of the Genesis 2) has most of the major chips combined into a single chip (specifically the 68000, Z80, YM2612 and VDP). The Z80 is used as the sound CPU for most Genesis games so it's an absolutely necessary component. The reason why the Genesis 3 doesn't work with Virtua Racing, the 32X, Game Genie or PBC is because some of the connections for those aren't there on the cartridge port.


A few corrections - the SNES 2 has A/V. What was removed was S-Video.
It doesn't have RGB either, but it's very easy to add both. It's simply a matter of pulling the necessary signals from the video encoder, add a 75 or 100 ohm resistor to each, then wire them up to the corresponding pins on the AV jack.

[theclaw]

Xbox 360 E removed optical audio, component, s-video, RGB, and VGA.

[o.pwuaioc]

Bah. I turn on the machine, if a picture comes up on the screen, I know its on. Not really a deal breaker for me.

Until you can't remember which switch the NES is hooked up to. With all my consoles hooked up, I sometimes forget, and my wife refuses to try to remember. :dance:

Also, there is something comforting about power buttons. The LED light in a dark room helps add to the late night eerie glows that I loved being enveloped in when I was a kid. No difference now.

[seanami]

There is a mod for one revision of the Genesis 3 systems that allows it to play 32x games.
Not sure about Virtua Racing though

[A Black Falcon]

Xbox 360 E removed optical audio, component, s-video, RGB, and VGA.
Oh, right... that is why I got a Slim, not an E.


That's actually not true, the Genesis 3 (and the VA4 revision of the Genesis 2) has most of the major chips combined into a single chip (specifically the 68000, Z80, YM2612 and VDP). The Z80 is used as the sound CPU for most Genesis games so it's an absolutely necessary component. The reason why the Genesis 3 doesn't work with Virtua Racing, the 32X, Game Genie or PBC is because some of the connections for those aren't there on the cartridge port.
That used to be a common rumor for why it couldn't support those accessories, though. I'm sure you're right about the real cause, but that has often been misidentified as the cause...


It doesn't have RGB either, but it's very easy to add both. It's simply a matter of pulling the necessary signals from the video encoder, add a 75 or 100 ohm resistor to each, then wire them up to the corresponding pins on the AV jack.
RGB? You need special setups to do that anyway, with US hardware, I think (I don't care enough about that stuff to remember all the details about exactly how to get RGB out of American systems, I just stick with RF (for 2nd-3rd gen stuff) or composite (for 4th-5th gen stuff) for my old consoles..), so I'll forgive them that one, cutting something nobody used anyway isn't as bad as cutting something people actually might have wanted...

[theclaw]

Yeah in that sense it's pretty amazing RGB consoles have lasted this long here. Began on Master System launch day, and PS3 still does it now.

[8-Bit Archeology]

So why mod the sms 2? Isnt it the same as the sms 1 graphics wise if its rf? Also how much smaller is it than an original? I have the big rectangular polygon.

[ApolloBoy]

So why mod the sms 2? Isnt it the same as the sms 1 graphics wise if its rf? Also how much smaller is it than an original? I have the big rectangular polygon.
It's significantly smaller and more narrow by a few inches. The RF output is pretty bad on the SMS II and even composite is a big step up in terms of video quality. You can easily mod it for S-video or RGB as well, and PAL consoles aren't that hard to convert to NTSC if you're really desperate to get one.

[theclaw]

So why mod the sms 2? Isnt it the same as the sms 1 graphics wise if its rf? Also how much smaller is it than an original? I have the big rectangular polygon.

the difference is sms 1 lets you choose rf, composite, or rgb.
a factory american sms 2 has exclusively rf. no options at all.

[SparTonberry]

I don't know if there's a difference for NTSC consoles but supposedly most of Codemasters' games use a video mode only supported by the video chip revision found primarily in PAL SMS2. (and thus among the few PAL games that won't work right in an NTSC console)

[BlastProcessing402]

Worst: Wii Mini, hands down. It's barely smaller, so the name is stupid, and strips out so much functionality that there's no point to the thing. I mean, the damn thing won't work with component cables, there's no wifi built in and it doesn't work with the Wii USB ethernet adapter so forget about any VC stuff, etc.

Best: I dunno, does GBASP count? If not I guess you could say the Micro. In any event, the original GBA was great and all, but damn near unplayable due to lack of built in lighting. Yes, the GBC and original GB lacked lighting as well, but they were not as hard to see as the GBA. Adding lights, best move ever.

[BlastProcessing402]

I wonder if anyone will ever build a device that lets you play Game Gear games on a Master system. Should only need some kind of pass through device I'd suspect... based on the existence of the Master Gear.

You'd think, but apparently not. Something about the GG supports more colors than the SMS or some other similar issue, so while SMS games can run on GG, the other way 'round can't work.

[8-Bit Archeology]

I have a pro for thw PSone. I bought a car adapter and screen yesterday. Playability in the car while waiting for newspapers at work was great. Plus I had MK4 going through my car speakers. So thats fun.

[Leo_A]

Worst: Wii Mini, hands down. It's barely smaller, so the name is stupid, and strips out so much functionality that there's no point to the thing. I mean, the damn thing won't work with component cables, there's no wifi built in and it doesn't work with the Wii USB ethernet adapter so forget about any VC stuff, etc.


The point of it was cost reduction just like things like the Genesis 3.

Strip everything that's even close to being non-essential to the core functions of the system to get production cost down and give you pricing flexibility to allow you to lower prices further to capture further sales and extend the product's life cycle beyond what it otherwise would be.

Wii Mini is just a handy marketing label. Size wasn't the driving force behind it, it was merely a byproduct of the drive to cut how much it cost to manufacture a Wii.

[wiggyx]

Worst: Wii Mini, hands down. It's barely smaller, so the name is stupid, and strips out so much functionality that there's no point to the thing. I mean, the damn thing won't work with component cables, there's no wifi built in and it doesn't work with the Wii USB ethernet adapter so forget about any VC stuff, etc.

Best: I dunno, does GBASP count? If not I guess you could say the Micro. In any event, the original GBA was great and all, but damn near unplayable due to lack of built in lighting. Yes, the GBC and original GB lacked lighting as well, but they were not as hard to see as the GBA. Adding lights, best move ever.

I think you really hit the nail on the head with both of these. Both have very objective failings and benefits when compared to their predecessors.

For those of you that haven't seen or handled a Wii mini in person, it feels CHEAP AS HELL. Like a Chinese knockoff. Seriously. It's pretty appalling when you consider how nice Nintendo products usually feel. Gross is the best word I can think of to describe it :(

The SP 101 had the great backlit LCD, it flipped open & closed, which made it more compact and protected the lens, and it even looked pretty stylish (which meant less embarrassment when playing in public). But the ergonomics sucked. Just looking at one now makes my hands cramp up, and I don't have large meat paws. The micro has a fabulous LCD, but it's tiny. The system itself is comfortable enough in the hands because of the horizontal orientation, but you gotta hold it up to your face like an 80 year-old woman trying to read the price tag on a jar of Metamucil :(

Still, it's my fav Nintendo portable ever. It's like a little piece of treasure. So jewel-like :)



I have a pro for thw PSone. I bought a car adapter and screen yesterday. Playability in the car while waiting for newspapers at work was great. Plus I had MK4 going through my car speakers. So thats fun.

You should consider modding a PSP. Runs PS1 games like a champ ;) (though you won't have the obvious audio advantage that your car stereo affords)

[extra_anchovy]

the difference is sms 1 lets you choose rf, composite, or rgb.
a factory american sms 2 has exclusively rf. no options at all.

how do you get RGB from an SMS1? I just see the RF output and the DIN plug. I only have an AV cable for the DIN plug, if you plug in a SCART cable will that make it RGB?

[theclaw]

how do you get RGB from an SMS1? I just see the RF output and the DIN plug. I only have an AV cable for the DIN plug, if you plug in a SCART cable will that make it RGB?

Yes. You probably noticed all those pins the AV cable doesn't use.