ColecoVision Nostalgia?

[DaddyMulk]

I'm working on an article about the ColecoVision for a web site that I write for. It was prompted by the news of ColecoVision coming back in at least one format, and an attempt to bring it back in another: Link (http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/16/4844900/retro-device-deal-brings-colecovision-back-from-the-80s)

While I was initially just reporting this as news, it got me thinking: Out of those games that could actually be obtained for either of these projects, which ones are gamers actually nostalgic for on the ColecoVision?

Let me preface all of this by saying that I'm not looking to start a flamewar. Even as someone who grew up when the CV was around, I'm legitimately curious if there really is the level of nostalgia out there for this console on-par with the NES, Genesis, or even the Atari VCS.

I was 8 years old when the CV came out. I never actually owned one (our household had an Atari VCS and a TI994A), but played it quite a bit when visiting my friends who happened to have consoles. I remember having fun with it, but most of the games I was exposed to at the time fall under the category of unobtainable for the projects in question. Beyond those, I just don't see much there.

I think both the Atari and the TI were different stories (as was the Intellivision). Atari had the strength of its arcade library, in addition to its original efforts, and the modern day plug and play devices reflect this. The TI had a lot of original games that I do feel strongly nostalgic for (Parsec and Tunnels of Doom come to mind). Coleco was not strong in either of these areas, and it shows.

Try this: Find a complete list of CV releases (there were around 150). Now, take out all of the arcade conversions, all licensed (film/television/etc.) properties, and the Activision/Imagic releases (based on past practice, I think it's safe to assume that Activision would not be interested in taking part in these projects). This kills off about half the system's library, and there's really very little left that resonates with me personally (Miner 2049er and Choplifter would probably be the exceptions, but that's only two games out of 75). Coleco's first-party library in particular looks especially weak, with only 13 games left (by my count) and nothing that I'm dying to play again in 2013.

But, again, those are my personal views, and I want to know yours. What's left on the list that would be worth adding to either of these projects? Basically, I'm wondering if a market for either of these things really exists (and I love video games in general, so I'd love to be proven wrong).

Also, a couple of side questions:

1) Are there any particular arcade conversions on the CV that you actually prefer to the original? When Contra arrived on XBLA several years ago, a lot of people were upset because it was the arcade version, not the NES version that they felt nostalgic for (myself included). But is there a crowd out there that really prefers Coleco's attempt at Donkey Kong to the NES conversion or the arcade original?

2) With regard to the Kickstarter, I'm really curious about whether or not they really have the rights to some of the titles listed on the page. Zaxxon and Space Fury are both Sega properties, and Sega still actively uses both today (the former is avaiable on the Wii Virtual Console service, and the latter was included as an unlockable game in their Sega Genesis Collection from ~2006). Bump'n'Jump is owned by G-Mode now (I believe) and was part of the Data East Collection released on the Wii in 2009. Antarctic Adventure is a Konami title, and the company still uses the game's main character to this day. I'm just wondering how they were able to pull off this feat, and I find it hard to believe that the IP holders would turn a blind eye towards this project.

Thanks for your time!

[Rickstilwell1]

It fails to mention Opcode games and their Super Game Module. That's part of ColecoVision's comeback as well.

[Bojay1997]

I'm working on an article about the ColecoVision for a web site that I write for. It was prompted by the news of ColecoVision coming back in at least one format, and an attempt to bring it back in another: Link (http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/16/4844900/retro-device-deal-brings-colecovision-back-from-the-80s)

While I was initially just reporting this as news, it got me thinking: Out of those games that could actually be obtained for either of these projects, which ones are gamers actually nostalgic for on the ColecoVision?

Let me preface all of this by saying that I'm not looking to start a flamewar. Even as someone who grew up when the CV was around, I'm legitimately curious if there really is the level of nostalgia out there for this console on-par with the NES, Genesis, or even the Atari VCS.

I was 8 years old when the CV came out. I never actually owned one (our household had an Atari VCS and a TI994A), but played it quite a bit when visiting my friends who happened to have consoles. I remember having fun with it, but most of the games I was exposed to at the time fall under the category of unobtainable for the projects in question. Beyond those, I just don't see much there.

I think both the Atari and the TI were different stories (as was the Intellivision). Atari had the strength of its arcade library, in addition to its original efforts, and the modern day plug and play devices reflect this. The TI had a lot of original games that I do feel strongly nostalgic for (Parsec and Tunnels of Doom come to mind). Coleco was not strong in either of these areas, and it shows.

Try this: Find a complete list of CV releases (there were around 150). Now, take out all of the arcade conversions, all licensed (film/television/etc.) properties, and the Activision/Imagic releases (based on past practice, I think it's safe to assume that Activision would not be interested in taking part in these projects). This kills off about half the system's library, and there's really very little left that resonates with me personally (Miner 2049er and Choplifter would probably be the exceptions, but that's only two games out of 75). Coleco's first-party library in particular looks especially weak, with only 13 games left (by my count) and nothing that I'm dying to play again in 2013.

But, again, those are my personal views, and I want to know yours. What's left on the list that would be worth adding to either of these projects? Basically, I'm wondering if a market for either of these things really exists (and I love video games in general, so I'd love to be proven wrong).

Also, a couple of side questions:

1) Are there any particular arcade conversions on the CV that you actually prefer to the original? When Contra arrived on XBLA several years ago, a lot of people were upset because it was the arcade version, not the NES version that they felt nostalgic for (myself included). But is there a crowd out there that really prefers Coleco's attempt at Donkey Kong to the NES conversion or the arcade original?

2) With regard to the Kickstarter, I'm really curious about whether or not they really have the rights to some of the titles listed on the page. Zaxxon and Space Fury are both Sega properties, and Sega still actively uses both today (the former is avaiable on the Wii Virtual Console service, and the latter was included as an unlockable game in their Sega Genesis Collection from ~2006). Bump'n'Jump is owned by G-Mode now (I believe) and was part of the Data East Collection released on the Wii in 2009. Antarctic Adventure is a Konami title, and the company still uses the game's main character to this day. I'm just wondering how they were able to pull off this feat, and I find it hard to believe that the IP holders would turn a blind eye towards this project.

Thanks for your time!

I personally think your proposed methodology is poor. When I was growing up, the Colecovision seemed amazing primarily because it had really good arcade conversions, some quirky licensed games and a bunch of games that it shared with the Adam which was a full fledged computer. The idea that hardware is only to be judged by unique first party content is totally ridiculous and is an attempt to take a modern analytical lens to a completely different era. Similarly, I can't understand why you would bring up the NES when it wasn't even available in the US until three years after the Colecovision was released. The Colecovision wasn't perfect, but it had a really interesting library of games and it certainly deserves its pride of place in any comprehensive classic console collection.

[Neb6]

Similar to what Bojay1997 said in his post, the ColecoVision was particularly great because of its arcade conversions. To take that away from it is to rip it away from the context in which it existed.

I vividly recall how important the arcade titles on the ColecoVision were. Certainly, the Atari 2600 had more arcade titles, but at the time it was a question of quality and this is where the CV blew the doors off of the competition. Take another look at their TV ads. The idea of bringing the arcade experience home was part of their motto.

If you're writing an article on this machine, I highly recommend taking a look through the issues of Electronic Fun and Electronic Games (in the library archive on this site).

Now for the favorites:

Non-arcade-conversion titles:

- The Dam Busters
- Super Action Baseball
- Rocky


Arcade conversions (and the reason I was -- and still am -- into CV stuff):

- Carnival
- Centipede
- BurgerTime
- Cosmic Avenger
- Defender
- Donkey Kong Jr.
- Frenzy
- Front Line
- Gyruss
- Mouse Trap
- Mr. Do!
- Mr. Do's Castle
- Q*Bert
- Star Trek
- SubRoc
- Time Pilot
- Turbo
- Venture
- Zaxxon

These games weren't just good... they were GREAT.

Secondly, the subtle differences between the original arcade machines and the arcade ports on the ColecoVision are what make these games unique in their own right. It's also the reason why I still play both the CV and arcade versions of these games to this day.

Finally, was there a nostalgia-fuelled movement for the ColecoVision as strong as the one for NES and the Genesis? Absolutely! People my age regularly freak out when they see my ColecoVision set up. It's not my quirky display skills that work the magic -- it's the machine and their happy memories of it. Then they start playing and they don't want to stop.

[DaddyMulk]

It fails to mention Opcode games and their Super Game Module. That's part of ColecoVision's comeback as well.

I had not heard of that, but I'll look into it. Thanks for letting me know about it.


I personally think your proposed methodology is poor. When I was growing up, the Colecovision seemed amazing primarily because it had really good arcade conversions, some quirky licensed games and a bunch of games that it shared with the Adam which was a full fledged computer. The idea that hardware is only to be judged by unique first party content is totally ridiculous and is an attempt to take a modern analytical lens to a completely different era. Similarly, I can't understand why you would bring up the NES when it wasn't even available in the US until three years after the Colecovision was released. The Colecovision wasn't perfect, but it had a really interesting library of games and it certainly deserves its pride of place in any comprehensive classic console collection.

I think you missed the point: I'm not seeking an explanation of the relevancy of the ColecoVision in 1982/1983. I'm well aware that it was the system of choice for many high-quality (for the time) arcade conversions during that era. What I'm looking at is the relevancy of re-releasing it in 2013, especially in light of much of its library being unable for said re-release.

I also wasn't judging it solely on first-party releases; I just noted that its first-party library was very thin on original content. My point was that, when a company like AtGames makes a deal with the company that currently owns Atari's IP, it's very easy to compile a strong list of 50+ games for release along with the hardware. The same is true for Sega and its platforms. The amount of existing IP from Coleco is limited by comparison.


Similar to what Bojay1997 said in his post, the ColecoVision was particularly great because of its arcade conversions. To take that away from it is to rip it away from the context in which it existed.

Exactly. That's what is happening with these modern methods for recreating the hardware, and the question I'm seeking to answer: You can hand me the keys to a reproduction of a Ferrari, but is it still entertaining if you're limiting me to drive it up and down a couple of dusty country roads?


Now for the favorites:

Thank you for the list.



Secondly, the subtle differences between the original arcade machines and the arcade ports on the ColecoVision are what make these games unique in their own right. It's also the reason why I still play both the CV and arcade versions of these games to this day.

Fair enough. Since I have my own favorites that fall into that category (such as NES Contra), I can see your point. I've just never run into anyone personally who had similar feelings about pre-NES conversions.


Finally, was there a nostalgia-fuelled movement for the ColecoVision as strong as the one for NES and the Genesis? Absolutely! People my age regularly freak out when they see my ColecoVision set up. It's not my quirky display skills that work the magic -- it's the machine and their happy memories of it. Then they start playing and they don't want to stop.

Sounds like a winning setup, but again, would people feel as nostalgic for a plug and play version with no arcade conversions?

[Neb6]

I'm writing a separate post in regards to the two projects (the kickstarter and the AtGames venture).

As far as playing these games on a mobile device, my feeling is "meh". However, I imagine quite a few people will like the idea. I'm not sure how it'll go over with the younger generation. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I wasn't able to find a proposed games list for the AtGames project. However, from the titles in the kickstarter's list, I'd say that the following are the better ones:

- Bump 'n' Jump
- Frenzy
- Jungle Hunt
- Montezuma's Revenge
- Pepper II
- Super Action Boxing
- Super Action Football
- Super Action Baseball
- Zaxxon

I've yet to play Destructor or Super Action Soccer, so I can't say on those two. Jumpman and Jumpman Junior almost have a cult following and I imagine they'd sell product.

For a re-release of the ColecoVision, I had hoped for more of a dev kit approach. That is, a console re-release with the tools necessary to allow people to create their OWN content. It would be a great learning tool and would give people a chance to make original games for the machine. If enough sold, it could generate a wave of (good and bad) simple games with reasonably short development time-frames. But it looks like one is an emulator for mobiles and the other is a joystick with games included. I'm actually a bit disappointed.

[Bojay1997]

I think you missed the point: I'm not seeking an explanation of the relevancy of the ColecoVision in 1982/1983. I'm well aware that it was the system of choice for many high-quality (for the time) arcade conversions during that era. What I'm looking at is the relevancy of re-releasing it in 2013, especially in light of much of its library being unable for said re-release.

I also wasn't judging it solely on first-party releases; I just noted that its first-party library was very thin on original content. My point was that, when a company like AtGames makes a deal with the company that currently owns Atari's IP, it's very easy to compile a strong list of 50+ games for release along with the hardware. The same is true for Sega and its platforms. The amount of existing IP from Coleco is limited by comparison.


Actually, I think you missed the point. Nostalgia is all about recapturing the feelings and sentiments of doing something in a previous time. I don't think you will find many people who have never seen or heard of an Atari VCS or a Sega Genesis flocking to buy those re-release built in game systems. These units are cheaply made for the most part, inexpensive and designed to be easy to give as gifts. If you ever visit a thrift store or swap meet or garage sale, you will commonly find the Atari Flashback units for sale as lots of people received them as gifts, played them a few times and then never plugged them in again. They aren't aimed at hardcore collectors or even most gamers. They are generally aimed at the 30+ crowd that might have a family and maybe not the money or the time and space to devote to actually tracking down the original hardware and games. It's really about giving those people a quick hit of nostalgia and frankly, I doubt most of those buyers or gift recipients ever play more than a few games on any of these units, regardless of whether its an Atari or an Intellivision or one of those Pacman or Space Invaders units.

The Colecovision is no different than any of these stand-alones that has been released. It was a system that sold millions of units and there is a pool of people out there who certainly will pick up either the stand alone unit or the iPad app assuming it launches simply because they have fond memories of playing and owning one as a kid. Heck, the pool of potential customers is undoubtedly bigger than the Neo Geo X which Tommo and SNK are now fighting over.

[DaddyMulk]

Actually, I think you missed the point. Nostalgia is all about recapturing the feelings and sentiments of doing something in a previous time. I don't think you will find many people who have never seen or heard of an Atari VCS or a Sega Genesis flocking to buy those re-release built in game systems. These units are cheaply made for the most part, inexpensive and designed to be easy to give as gifts. If you ever visit a thrift store or swap meet or garage sale, you will commonly find the Atari Flashback units for sale as lots of people received them as gifts, played them a few times and then never plugged them in again. They aren't aimed at hardcore collectors or even most gamers. They are generally aimed at the 30+ crowd that might have a family and maybe not the money or the time and space to devote to actually tracking down the original hardware and games. It's really about giving those people a quick hit of nostalgia and frankly, I doubt most of those buyers or gift recipients ever play more than a few games on any of these units, regardless of whether its an Atari or an Intellivision or one of those Pacman or Space Invaders units.

While you do make a good point about the market for these devices not being us necessarily, I think you're short-selling the draw of the games themselves over the draw of the hardware/company label on the box. Most people purchase these devices because they see "Pac-Man" on the box, not "Namco". There's a reason why games like Pac-Man and Galaga are used prominently in selling these devices, and games like Rally-X and Bosconian are not (both fine games, neither of which has the drawing power of the first two mentioned). If they had filmed a Happy Days renuion movie without Henry Winkler, Ron Howard, Tom Bosley, or Marion Ross, would you pay to see it?


The Colecovision is no different than any of these stand-alones that has been released. It was a system that sold millions of units and there is a pool of people out there who certainly will pick up either the stand alone unit or the iPad app assuming it launches simply because they have fond memories of playing and owning one as a kid. Heck, the pool of potential customers is undoubtedly bigger than the Neo Geo X which Tommo and SNK are now fighting over.

I think the Neo Geo re-release falls into its own category since it was unattainable to many people during its initial release due to its higher price point. People who played it in the arcades and enjoyed it could not necessarily afford a $600 system with $200 games, so even at the X's ridiculous price point, it seems like a reasonable deal.

[Bojay1997]

While you do make a good point about the market for these devices not being us necessarily, I think you're short-selling the draw of the games themselves over the draw of the hardware/company label on the box. Most people purchase these devices because they see "Pac-Man" on the box, not "Namco". There's a reason why games like Pac-Man and Galaga are used prominently in selling these devices, and games like Rally-X and Bosconian are not (both fine games, neither of which has the drawing power of the first two mentioned). If they had filmed a Happy Days renuion movie without Henry Winkler, Ron Howard, Tom Bosley, or Marion Ross, would you pay to see it?



I think the Neo Geo re-release falls into its own category since it was unattainable to many people during its initial release due to its higher price point. People who played it in the arcades and enjoyed it could not necessarily afford a $600 system with $200 games, so even at the X's ridiculous price point, it seems like a reasonable deal.

You're right that the Pacman and Space Invaders units are designed to be promoted on the basis of those specific games. The Atari and Intellivision and the soon to be released Colecovision unit not so much. People who grew up with those consoles know the console names and the games are important, but secondary to the nostalgia of owning the actual hardware. I don't know how old you are, but as someone who grew up with classic consoles still in the stores and in homes, I can tell you that many of my friends and co-workers in the same age range can rattle off every console they owned or even played growing up and Colecovision gets mentioned at least as often as Intellivision although admittedly not as frequently as Atari. Heck, Colecovision was promoted like crazy in magazines and comics in the early 1980s, so even though I didn't own one at the time, I sure knew about it and wanted one badly.

As for the Neo Geo, it's not in its own category. Like the other units, people are buying it for the brand/console first and the games second. The fact that it was expensive and not very common in most retailers certainly adds to the draw, but I doubt many people are nostalgic about the vast majority of the games that came built into the unit.

[sloan]

If you have ever seen the Coleco plug and plays that came out some years back, that is all the evidence to know that an AtGames console will not work for Colecovision. There are simply not enough quality/interesting unlicensed titles to equate to a decent buy-in from the average video game buyer. I love Colecovision, but the majority of it's hit games were definitely arcade conversions, all licensed from other companies. Now, if Jakks, Radica, etc. could get permission to used some of those arcade licenses, it might be another story.

[tom]

Just make sure you get the "Generation" right, as the Colecovision is "THIRD" generation, not second as it's put wrongly on Wikipedia.
Back in the days, it was called 'waves', you can do proper research here on Digital Press, under magazines, Electronic Games (the masters of gaming magazines from way back):

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo12/Alison123456789/eg82_zpsae0e84fc.jpg
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo12/Alison123456789/TelespieleReport84CBSColeco_zpsdc2e4001.jpg
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo12/Alison123456789/colecothirdgen.jpg


Third gen is: Colecovision, Atari 5200, Vectrex

Here's for the Atari 5200, just for good measure:
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo12/Alison123456789/eg83_zps8dbd706d.jpg
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo12/Alison123456789/atari5200thirdgen.jpg



One thing baffles me: The Ti had a lot of original games? And you mention.....two? Well, I guess you're right, that's about it for the Ti....Colecovision had a few more though :-)

Anyway, why leave out arcade conversions, every console started, gotten off the ground, doing arcade conversion, without them there wouldn't be a VCS, NES or Genesis or wotnot.

Anyway, Coleco was famous for arcade conversions, hence an arcade machine on the game box cover
http://www.videogameobsession.com/videogame/colecovision/ColecoVision-Carnival-vgo.jpg
and the quality of the games reflect this.


Go here, these are your friends in need:
http://atariage.com/forums/forum/115-colecovision-adam/