Wii U for $220, almost tempted, but not quite

[WCP]

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/110674/ebay---8gb-nintendo-wii-u-skylanders-swap-force-limited-edition-bundle


Very tempting. Wii U for $220, and it comes with some Skylander crap that could probably be sold on Craigslist for about 30 bucks.



I was somewhat tempted by this deal, but ultimately, I think I'm going to pass on it, because I don't know if I could really sell all the stuff from it and get any real money from it, plus it's a bunch of extra effort that I'm not sure I'm wanting to expend on a system that has only one game that I'm interested in (The new Mario World 3D game that just came out) That game is still $59.99 I think, which is like $65 after tax . So, then the price starts creeping back towards $300. Plus this is the 8 gig version, instead of the 32 gig version.

I think if I could get a brand new 32 gig Wii U, with Mario 3D World, and somehow get it for $200 out the door (with tax and everything), I'd probably do it, but short of that I think I'll have to pass, because this almost seems like one of those deals where the price is going to continue to fall. I'm not sure Nintendo sold enough of these worldwide this Xmas for them to not take it out back and put it out of it's misery. Nintendo is a publicly traded company, and the shareholders are going to look at the installed base for the system, and my guess is they are going to want Nintendo to "Dreamcast it" so to speak.

Then, the value of the Wii U would plummet dramatically, if it became common knowledge that Nintendo was simply going to move on from the Wii U, and there would be no further game development. I'm sure they are far enough into Mario Kart that they will at least finish that game, and some of other games they have coming. Zelda, I'm not so sure, unless the development of that game is passed the half way stage. If Nintendo killed the Wii U prematurely, they could focus on more 3DS software, and then also make plans towards a potential portable / home console hybrid to release Xmas 2015.

Buying a Wii U now, could either be a really good value, or it could be a situation of catching a falling knife, so to speak, with the price to further plummet.

[buzz_n64]

I'm not sure Nintendo sold enough of these worldwide this Xmas for them to not take it out back and put it out of it's misery. Nintendo is a publicly traded company, and the shareholders are going to look at the installed base for the system, and my guess is they are going to want Nintendo to "Dreamcast it" so to speak.

Then, the value of the Wii U would plummet dramatically, if it became common knowledge that Nintendo was simply going to move on from the Wii U, and there would be no further game development. I'm sure they are far enough into Mario Kart that they will at least finish that game, and some of other games they have coming. Zelda, I'm not so sure, unless the development of that game is passed the half way stage. If Nintendo killed the Wii U prematurely, they could focus on more 3DS software, and then also make plans towards a potential portable / home console hybrid to release Xmas 2015.

Buying a Wii U now, could either be a really good value, or it could be a situation of catching a falling knife, so to speak, with the price to further plummet.

Way too much speculation. Yeah, so far the Wii U isn't a hit like the Wii was, but even the PS3 took forever to make some good sales compared to the other two systems on the market. I think that even if the Wii U were to become a failure, Nintendo would not cut support. They would ride it until its death at the end of this generation, and their next system would mark its death ala "Dreamcast"

As for portable gaming, I see even less of a future in it as smart phones and tablets become even more powerful and more suitable for gaming, there will be no need for anyone to carry a second device that has less features, but can play some Mario games.

[The Adventurer]

This seems like a really good deal. But I feel like I'd rather get the 32gb Deluxe version, even at this steep of a discount it still feels worth it to spring for more space.

[jonebone]

I got a Wii U Mario / Luigi bundle a few weeks back for $300 + $30 in gift cards. I have zero regrets, I've already gotten a solid 25+ hours of gameplay out of it between Mario Wii U and Super Mario 3D World.

If you can't afford it, keep waiting for your purchase point. If you got some money to spare and enjoy the Mario games, you'll get more than $300+ of enjoyment out of it for sure.

It's a perfect gaming system for those with a wife. She has no interest in my Xbox One, but she always looks forward to playing Mario.

Also, just read more of your post, lol @ the Wii U plummeting. Sales have picked up noticeably after Mario 3D World and into the holiday season. The Wii U isn't going anywhere. I was very anti-Wii U until Mario 3D World, and that release has converted more people like me from pessimists to optimists.

[Tanooki]

That Skylanders bundle isn't worth it because of the points you said (8GB unit primarily) but it's also on the whole the canceled 8GB minimalist boxed system.

The best deal period is the Super Mario U + Super Luigi U combo package. It's $250 at face value, but break it down like this.
- Mario costs $60
- Luigi costs $30
- Wii U game pad stand/cradle set $20
- Wii U system stand (Nintendo store only $4.)

System now costs you $136 (given you wanted those items.) Best deal by far and you don't get short changed. I think they also still have that promo on the deluxe system where you get bonus Nintendo points or some junk for the first year which they did when the hardware came out.

[WCP]

Way too much speculation. Yeah, so far the Wii U isn't a hit like the Wii was, but even the PS3 took forever to make some good sales compared to the other two systems on the market. I think that even if the Wii U were to become a failure, Nintendo would not cut support. They would ride it until its death at the end of this generation, and their next system would mark its death ala "Dreamcast"

As for portable gaming, I see even less of a future in it as smart phones and tablets become even more powerful and more suitable for gaming, there will be no need for anyone to carry a second device that has less features, but can play some Mario games.


Well, all we can do is speculate, because we don't have concrete information, or any insider information.

The PS3 did take a long time to get going, but the sales of the Wii U were trending WORSE than the GameCube, which is saying something. Now, maybe with the Xmas sales this year, the Wii U is now trending slightly better than the GameCube at this same point in time, but before Xmas it wasn't. You have to remember that the GameCube launched in 2001, when the pool of available customers was much smaller than it is now. There are so many more potential customers in the gaming industry now, over a decade later, and for the Wii U to be selling worse than the GameCube is pretty astonishing.

We've only seen Nintendo kill one piece of hardware so far, the Virtual Boy. Nintendo definitely killed off the Virtual Boy, with extreme prejudice, but much of that had to do with the fact that I think they were concerned about lawsuits, and health issues (headaches / eyestrain), in addition to the abysmal sales of the device.

Could Nintendo consider killing off the Wii U early ?

Some people might think it's ridiculous to consider such nonsense, but you have to remember that Nintendo is a publicly traded company. They are not a privately held company. They have to answer to their shareholders. The shareholders are going to demand some drastic action of some kind.

In my opinion, there is really only two potential options.


Option 1 - Remove the Wii U tablet controller from the packaging, include the Pro Controller instead, and bundle in Super Mario 3D World and drop the price to $199.

Option 2 - Come to the realization that the Wii U is dead in the water and cut your losses. Any projects that are less than 70 percent complete would be immediately cancelled. All available developers would move over to 3DS development and also development for a "comeback" system targeted for Fall 2015.


Both options would be EXTREMELY painful for Nintendo. They aren't going to be too interested in choosing either option, but I think the shareholders will demand that they pick one of those unpleasant choices. Sometimes you gotta just rip the band-aid off and deal with it. The Wii U is destined for lifetime sales of less than 20 million which is absolutely unacceptable, and the sooner Nintendo realizes this, and admits the situation they are in, the better off they will be. They can remove the tablet controller from the package, and just make it a regular game system with a controller and a great game for $199.99. Put the flagship game in the box, Super Mario 3D World, and drop the price a full $100. Make it all work by removing the cost of the tablet controller from the equation.

Either that or pull the plug. Those are the only two options imo.

[Niku-Sama]

the wii u "tablet controller" is necessary to play a lot of the games and for many of the functions of the system.

I got my Mario / luigi bundle for $260, I like it.
Employee discount

any way, people easily forget that when the wii first came out it wasn't that popular and it took a little bit and some good games to come out to start taking off.
with the system having dropped some highly rated games recently along with some anticipated ones coming up its starting to move units.

I sold out of wii-us at work for Christmas, last season that didn't happen and I wasn't getting much in terms of stock and there was only one store here now theres 2 (stores that I work at)
so half the traffic, more stock, more sold this season as opposed to last season

[kupomogli]

any way, people easily forget that when the wii first came out it wasn't that popular and it took a little bit and some good games to come out to start taking off.

I think the reason it sold is because of the millions of non gamers who bought the system because they were suckered in with the idea of motion control and playing a video game console that was fun but also helped you exercise. When the entire audience, including those that do play video games often, got burned by a console that has a lack of quality titles compared to the others, it doesn't help the next console, especially when it's weaker and has an extreme lack of third party support.

I'm getting one, but the system is way too expensive to purchase when it's got less than five games I'm interested in purchasing even though it's been out for a year. I might get it when Super Smash Bros comes out, might get it later. PS4 and Xbox One has doesn't have many games I'm interested in either. Decided I was going to wait until next Black Friday or later before I purchased one, might do the same with the Wii U.

[Leo_A]

Wii was hugely popular at launch, was impossible to find throughout winter, and again repeated the process the next Christmas and winter.

A huge chunk of the Wii's install base and profits came during those opening 18 months on the market.

[PreZZ]

The 8gb isnt a deal breaker, just buy physical copies of games. Even 32 gb is poor, some games like splinter cell takes 20 gb of space, so if you dont plan on buying eshop games too much, it's ok to get 8gb system, you can put an external hdd to it down the road. Mario 3d is 40$ here in canada for the boxing day week.

[jonebone]

Well, all we can do is speculate, because we don't have concrete information, or any insider information.

The PS3 did take a long time to get going, but the sales of the Wii U were trending WORSE than the GameCube, which is saying something. Now, maybe with the Xmas sales this year, the Wii U is now trending slightly better than the GameCube at this same point in time, but before Xmas it wasn't. You have to remember that the GameCube launched in 2001, when the pool of available customers was much smaller than it is now. There are so many more potential customers in the gaming industry now, over a decade later, and for the Wii U to be selling worse than the GameCube is pretty astonishing.

We've only seen Nintendo kill one piece of hardware so far, the Virtual Boy. Nintendo definitely killed off the Virtual Boy, with extreme prejudice, but much of that had to do with the fact that I think they were concerned about lawsuits, and health issues (headaches / eyestrain), in addition to the abysmal sales of the device.

Could Nintendo consider killing off the Wii U early ?

Some people might think it's ridiculous to consider such nonsense, but you have to remember that Nintendo is a publicly traded company. They are not a privately held company. They have to answer to their shareholders. The shareholders are going to demand some drastic action of some kind.

In my opinion, there is really only two potential options.


Option 1 - Remove the Wii U tablet controller from the packaging, include the Pro Controller instead, and bundle in Super Mario 3D World and drop the price to $199.

Option 2 - Come to the realization that the Wii U is dead in the water and cut your losses. Any projects that are less than 70 percent complete would be immediately cancelled. All available developers would move over to 3DS development and also development for a "comeback" system targeted for Fall 2015.


Both options would be EXTREMELY painful for Nintendo. They aren't going to be too interested in choosing either option, but I think the shareholders will demand that they pick one of those unpleasant choices. Sometimes you gotta just rip the band-aid off and deal with it. The Wii U is destined for lifetime sales of less than 20 million which is absolutely unacceptable, and the sooner Nintendo realizes this, and admits the situation they are in, the better off they will be. They can remove the tablet controller from the package, and just make it a regular game system with a controller and a great game for $199.99. Put the flagship game in the box, Super Mario 3D World, and drop the price a full $100. Make it all work by removing the cost of the tablet controller from the equation.

Either that or pull the plug. Those are the only two options imo.

What are you smoking man? You're blind to reality.

The Wii U sales have drastically picked up since the Mario 3D World release. The system is fine. Bump this thread in 3 months and have yourself a good laugh at how you thought the Wii U was doomed.

If anything, the XB1 and PS4 sales are now going to tank hard after Xmas. Wii U at the $250-$300 level with a bundled game will be fine. It's already selling very well and a price drop is completely unnecessary.

It sounds like you are trying to rationalize a price drop because you are too cheap to buy it at retail? Just because it isn't the console for you doesn't mean it is a total failure.

[Bojay1997]

What are you smoking man? You're blind to reality.

The Wii U sales have drastically picked up since the Mario 3D World release. The system is fine. Bump this thread in 3 months and have yourself a good laugh at how you thought the Wii U was doomed.

If anything, the XB1 and PS4 sales are now going to tank hard after Xmas. Wii U at the $250-$300 level with a bundled game will be fine. It's already selling very well and a price drop is completely unnecessary.

It sounds like you are trying to rationalize a price drop because you are too cheap to buy it at retail? Just because it isn't the console for you doesn't mean it is a total failure.

Actually, it seems pretty clear that you are blind to reality. Microsoft and Sony each sold 2 million of their new consoles within a little over two weeks of launch. In that same period, Nintendo only sold 220K WiiUs. Indeed, this past year, Nintendo has sold less than 1 million WiiUs which means they were outsold by a factor of two by both the Xbox One and the PS4 during their respective launch windows. Even great games like Super Mario World 3D only did a little over 100K units in the first week. Those are horrible numbers and a reflection of a failing console, not something to be pointing to as an example of success. Sure, the Xbox One and PS4 sales will slow, but the WiiU's sales have already collapsed. In the entire year since launch, the WiiU has only done a little over 4 million units worldwide. Those are just not sustainable numbers for a console, especially when Nintendo is really the only major publisher supporting the platform and where there is no paid on-line service or other secondary revenue stream.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...n-from-launch/

[jonebone]

Actually, it seems pretty clear that you are blind to reality. Microsoft and Sony each sold 2 million of their new consoles within a little over two weeks of launch. In that same period, Nintendo only sold 220K WiiUs. Indeed, this past year, Nintendo has sold less than 1 million WiiUs which means they were outsold by a factor of two by both the Xbox One and the PS4 during their respective launch windows. Even great games like Super Mario World 3D only did a little over 100K units in the first week. Those are horrible numbers and a reflection of a failing console, not something to be pointing to as an example of success. Sure, the Xbox One and PS4 sales will slow, but the WiiU's sales have already collapsed. In the entire year since launch, the WiiU has only done a little over 4 million units worldwide. Those are just not sustainable numbers for a console, especially when Nintendo is really the only major publisher supporting the platform and where there is no paid on-line service or other secondary revenue stream.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...n-from-launch/

Hmm, your link isn't working for me. But anyone with a brain can regurgitate top-level data and act like they know it all. I'm talking about applying your intelligence and looking at the trends to see how the landscape is changing. Let's look at the best concrete data we can actually observe from VGChartz.com. (Most recent: http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41623/Global/ )

They publish weekly data at The Global and USA level, and they typically lag about 2 weeks. Here's the best Global Data they have. I whipped up a chart for you free of charge. Apologies if the data table does not past nicely.

Global Wii U PS4 XB1
11/3-11/9 61,765
11/10-11/16 74,797 1,051,921
11/17-11/23 106,100 99,756 1,131,874
11/24-/11/30 230,165 958,849 430,186
12/1-12/7 173,329 268,505 258,286
12/8-12/14 264,627 374,879 306,436

http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae299/jonebone/JB3/sales_zpsadd55b5e.jpg

Now who's blind to reality? Yes the Wii U flopped HARD out of the gate after all of the speculators bought up the release day units. Look at before Super Mario 3D World came out, 60-70k units a week is abysmal.

Look at what Super Mario 3D World has done to the numbers though... as well as the $300 bundle price point with either Zelda WW HD or Mario / Luigi U. Basically has quadrupled sales and the Wii U could move 1 million in the month of December alone. It is clearly trending up while the other systems will go flat or decline after release-day hype.

The toughest days for the Wii U are long behind it. The reason the inital Super Mario 3D World sales stalled is because of A) XB1 (same day), B) PS4 (the week before), and C) Zelda Link Between Worlds (same day). Of course there are many people who want to play it, but they just have their gaming time pulled in so many directions.

Now that the lull is coming where PS4 and XB1 won't have jack shit coming out, people will be turning to the Wii U and Mario 3D World. Numbers will stay hot. Wii U isn't going anywhere.

People who are actually paying attention would notice that the Wii Us are moving fast at stores, XB1s are plentiful and sitting, and PS4s are understocked for demand. The writing is on the wall if people open their eyes.

[Bojay1997]

Hmm, your link isn't working for me. But anyone with a brain can regurgitate top-level data and act like they know it all. I'm talking about applying your intelligence and looking at the trends to see how the landscape is changing. Let's look at the best concrete data we can actually observe from VGChartz.com. (Most recent: http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41623/Global/ )

They publish weekly data at The Global and USA level, and they typically lag about 2 weeks. Here's the best Global Data they have. I whipped up a chart for you free of charge. Apologies if the data table does not past nicely.

Global Wii U PS4 XB1
11/3-11/9 61,765
11/10-11/16 74,797 1,051,921
11/17-11/23 106,100 99,756 1,131,874
11/24-/11/30 230,165 958,849 430,186
12/1-12/7 173,329 268,505 258,286
12/8-12/14 264,627 374,879 306,436

http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae299/jonebone/JB3/sales_zpsadd55b5e.jpg

Now who's blind to reality? Yes the Wii U flopped HARD out of the gate after all of the speculators bought up the release day units. Look at before Super Mario 3D World came out, 60-70k units a week is abysmal.

Look at what Super Mario 3D World has done to the numbers though... as well as the $300 bundle price point with either Zelda WW HD or Mario / Luigi U. Basically has quadrupled sales and the Wii U could move 1 million in the month of December alone. It is clearly trending up while the other systems will go flat or decline after release-day hype.

The toughest days for the Wii U are long behind it. The reason the inital Super Mario 3D World sales stalled is because of A) XB1 (same day), B) PS4 (the week before), and C) Zelda Link Between Worlds (same day). Of course there are many people who want to play it, but they just have their gaming time pulled in so many directions.

Now that the lull is coming where PS4 and XB1 won't have jack shit coming out, people will be turning to the Wii U and Mario 3D World. Numbers will stay hot. Wii U isn't going anywhere.

People who are actually paying attention would notice that the Wii Us are moving fast at stores, XB1s are plentiful and sitting, and PS4s are understocked for demand. The writing is on the wall if people open their eyes.

Are you kidding? Nobody uses VG Chartz. It's entirely based on speculation. But, let's say for a second that the numbers you presented are accurate. The WiiU did a little over 910K sales in the prime holiday season. On the other hand, according to your own numbers, the PS4 did 2.75 million units during that same period, over 3X as many. The Xbox One did 2.1 million units, or 2X as many. That's for two much more expensive consoles which have no must-have games right now and which have never been sold for under full MSRP. In comparison, the WiiU is riding bundles, price drops, holiday discounting, gift cards, and its most anticipated releases for some time to come.

Your release date argument is totally weak as is your sales data. There are already 4 million WiiUs out there. You're claiming that 3.9 million of those people bought an Xbox One or PS4 instead of Super Mario World 3D? That is absurd. People are not going to go back after the holidays and buy the WiiU without a major price drop and a ton of must have games, none of which appear to be on the horizon. As much as I am personally looking forward to Bayonetta 2, it's not exactly a mainstream game. Moreover, the Xbox One has outsold the WiiU every week since release according to your own data. The PS4 has similarly outsold the WiiU with the exception of the week after release when it was sold out everywhere and even then, it came within 6,000 units of WiiU sales.

I spend a lot of time in retail stores and while the PS4 has been consistently sold out this holiday and the Xbox One has been more available but still selling, I see piles of unsold WiiU bundles everywhere I go. Fortunately, Nintendo still has a pile of cash and a successful handheld business to fall back on, but there is no way the WiiU has been a success and that hasn't changed this holiday season. You can spin it any way you like, but 4-5 million consoles sold worldwide in a year of being on the market when you have no other significant revenue stream besides first party software and a very limited selection of peripherals is literally terrible.

[Tanooki]

I got to side with jonebone here as he's got a point and the chart shows it. You have to take it all in context. Systems when they come out that first week or two they'll get some cracked out sales figures from all the presells and hype, but outside of the 18~mo long extraordinary Wii push in 2006-2007 over two holidays, that's just abnormal. Sure the PS4 and One sold 2M units in a couple weeks, but then what? I can go to any store right now and buy one if I wanted it and to my area I've seen more of them than WiiU's floating around due to the holiday but all are present. I'm seeing what happened a year ago now starting to form up on craigslist, shady ass flippers dropping their scammy prices on systems they snapped up to buttfuck someones wallet of Christmas funds. It's not falling much yet, but the trend is there, and after another 30 days I think we'll see for sure what happens as peoples Christmas cash/checks dry up.

No doubt the WiiU started ok but not great initially that first week, but then it took a pasting and has continually been in the shitter with even Pikmin 3 not helping, but Zelda and Mario along with the $50 drop and $50-90 of free games thrown in the deluxe box have helped further. I'll concede your points are right if both Kart and Brawl don't keep the numbers floating well through spring into summer though. I don't expect them to move over a million a month any time soon, that wii thing was a fluke, but I don't see them also just doing 20-40K/month globally in systems either anymore. The price is right especially with the freebies in box and the software is finally there now and growing too. It won't be #1 at all in total systems sold ever, but if the hardware gets strongly profitable instead of 3DS keeping it afloat, and people see it as a second system alternative it will be fine and such drastic moves will be entirely unnecessary. Don't expect PS4 and One to keep moving a million units a month either as the hype and presells are over, the anyone will buy it types are pretty much bought in too, now it will come down to convincing people to drop $400-500 each +60->120 more in cash for a game or two on top to get started. The existing graph seems to show PS4 and WiiU trending upward in a similar array there at the end with the One flatenning out.

[Leo_A]

Availability...

With holiday shortages and the Wii U remaining easily available throughout, a graph like that was to be expected. Those two weeks that I think you two are using to show a possible Wii U recovery and edging towards the new competition is mostly just a reflection of the availability of said hardware at retail.

Stores had Wii U's to sell the first couple of weeks of December. But they had precious few PS4's and XB1's. Had they been able to keep up with demand, the gap would've been far larger. But Microsoft's and Sony's sales were supply constrained.

[jonebone]

Are you kidding? Nobody uses VG Chartz. It's entirely based on speculation. But, let's say for a second that the numbers you presented are accurate. The WiiU did a little over 910K sales in the prime holiday season. On the other hand, according to your own numbers, the PS4 did 2.75 million units during that same period, over 3X as many. The Xbox One did 2.1 million units, or 2X as many. That's for two much more expensive consoles which have no must-have games right now and which have never been sold for under full MSRP. In comparison, the WiiU is riding bundles, price drops, holiday discounting, gift cards, and its most anticipated releases for some time to come.

Your release date argument is totally weak as is your sales data. There are already 4 million WiiUs out there. You're claiming that 3.9 million of those people bought an Xbox One or PS4 instead of Super Mario World 3D? That is absurd. People are not going to go back after the holidays and buy the WiiU without a major price drop and a ton of must have games, none of which appear to be on the horizon. As much as I am personally looking forward to Bayonetta 2, it's not exactly a mainstream game. Moreover, the Xbox One has outsold the WiiU every week since release according to your own data. The PS4 has similarly outsold the WiiU with the exception of the week after release when it was sold out everywhere and even then, it came within 6,000 units of WiiU sales.

I spend a lot of time in retail stores and while the PS4 has been consistently sold out this holiday and the Xbox One has been more available but still selling, I see piles of unsold WiiU bundles everywhere I go. Fortunately, Nintendo still has a pile of cash and a successful handheld business to fall back on, but there is no way the WiiU has been a success and that hasn't changed this holiday season. You can spin it any way you like, but 4-5 million consoles sold worldwide in a year of being on the market when you have no other significant revenue stream besides first party software and a very limited selection of peripherals is literally terrible.

So provide a better data source then? NPD usually consists of software sales and their reports are hard to find. It's just as good of a source as any, and it also supports the 1 million PS4 / 1 million XB1s within their first 24 hours story.

As for the XB1 / PS4 outselling the Wii U during their initial holiday release window... no shit? Everyone knows that the console release market is dominated by resellers and they are expected to be out of stock for a month or so after release. For the Wii U to sell anything at all in this time span really says a lot about their success despite the MS / Sony hype. Yes it has bombed out of the gate and I agree with you on that, but when sales triple / quadruple in a time period where your competition just tripled... well it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that is a huge win.

This thread makes it seem like the Wii U is on life support, when in reality, it already survived the darkest days and it has now gained steam. And a price drop from $350 to $300 (for the deluxe + bundled game) isn't a death blow either... let's not forget how the 3DS took a $250 to $180 ($170?) price drop within a month or two of release. Look at how the 3DS sales really turned around.

I'm not preaching that the Wii U is going to win this console war, it's just silly to think that it is destined to failure. The current sales numbers should show the turnaround.

[jonebone]

Availability...

With holiday shortages and the Wii U remaining easily available, a graph like that was to be expected. Those two weeks that I think you two are using to show a possible Wii U recover and edging towards the new competition is mostly just a reflection of the availability of said hardware at retail.

Stores had Wii U's to sell the first couple of weeks of December. But they had precious few PS4's and XB1's. Had they been able to keep up with demand, the gap would've been far larger. But Microsoft's and Sony's sales were supply constrained.

Not really... the PS4 is the only one with the constrained supply. XB1s have been very plentiful since the week before Xmas (12/15). I saw an XB1 at Target / Wal-Mart everytime I went by there, and I saw dozens on the floor at Best Buy. It was also went into continual restock on Amazon.com around that time.

I know because I was in the market for the X1 and finally got a Day One edition off eBay the week before Xmas. I also was monitoring the nowinstock site for email notifications of online stock... and XB1 was available everywhere.

PS4 on the other hand... stock definitely did not meet demand and I only saw a single one of those all holidays season. Saw one on a shelf at a Wal-Mart and that was it.

[Leo_A]

While it's only anecdotal evidence, I've seen plenty of people having trouble locating one online. And around here, only last generation hardware, handhelds, and the Wii U have been available the couple of times I've glanced when looking for something else at Wal-Mart & such.

So I'm reasonably sure that a healthy number of potential XB1 purchases were thwarted by the lack of hardware to buy. But even if that's not the case, it most certainly has been for the PS4 and if we're taking that graph as fact, it quite clearly indicates huge upswings for the PS4 when it's restocked.

Either way, the performance going forward will tell the story. I'm sure that things like Wind Waker HD & Super Mario 3D World helped and that sales are on the upswing finally for Nintendo. But I think it's much too soon to portray it as a recovery and it's all but assured that the XB1 & PS4 will continue to enjoy a large lead despite a year's head start for Nintendo.

A year from now with several major 1st party releases hitting in 2014 will be the real test. If we're even in a position to talk about the system like we have throughout 2013 a year from now, I see no way we could ever twist it into declaring it a sales success. But hopefully we'll be able to ultimately think of it like we did the GameCube. Modestly successful, lots of great exclusives, and profitable when all is said and done despite being in 3rd place where install base is concerned.

[jonebone]

While it's only anecdotal evidence, I've seen plenty of people having trouble locating one online. And around here, only last generation hardware, handhelds, and the Wii U have been available the couple of times I've glanced when looking for something else at Wal-Mart & such.

So I'm reasonably sure that a healthy number of potential XB1 purchases were thwarted by the lack of hardware to buy. But even if that's not the case, it most certainly has been for the PS4 and if we're taking that graph as fact, it quite clearly indicates huge upswings for the PS4 when it's restocked.

Either way, the performance going forward will tell the story. I'm sure that things like Wind Waker HD & Super Mario 3D World helped and that sales are on the upswing finally for Nintendo, but I think it's much too soon to portray it as a recovery and it's all but assured that the XB1 & PS4 will continue to enjoy a large lead despite a year's head start for Nintendo.

A year from now with several major 1st party releases hitting in 2014 will be the real test. If we're even in a position to talk about the system like we have throughout 2013 a year from now, I see no way we could ever twist it into declaring it a sales success. But hopefully we'll be able to ultimately think of it like we did the GameCube. Modestly successful, lots of great exclusives, overlooked, yet profitable when all is said and done despite being in 3rd place.

Well, I don't expect the average consumer to set up email notifications when looking for an XB1 or PS4 but I assume they would at least check the usual suspects if they really wanted one (Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc.)

As I said, Amazon has it in stock for $499 w/ free shipping and it's been in stock since well before Xmas. And considering there is no sales tax (6% here in MD, so saves me $30), I assume people would check out Amazon. There simply isn't a shortage of XB1s right now.

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-Console/dp/B00CMQTVUA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388433267&sr=8-1&keywords=xbox+one

PS4 on the other hand... I'm not sure if it is due to Sony being headquartered in Japan or what, but they simply can't keep them in stock to meet demand. Notice the Amazon page for PS4... only available from resellers. Though Amazon says in stock on January 4th.

http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-4/dp/B00BGA9WK2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388433275&sr=8-1&keywords=ps4

Regardless, yes it will be interesting to see 2014. I expect the Wii U to cruise along in the 125-200k / week range globally, thru January at least. PS4 should stay hot but I expect XB1 to cool off as well. Lack of games may prove to be a problem for all 3 of the consoles though... nothing of interest to me in the first quarter of 2014 at all.

[Leo_A]

Well, like I said, it's just anecdotal evidence. I reserve the right to be incorrect with my observations of the state the XB1 is in now. :)

But even if Nintendo somehow does manage to keep Microsoft in sight, I think that just means that Microsoft is in trouble rather than a positive sign for Nintendo. I just can't imagine the Wii U over a year in ever coming to dominate this generation or even being particularly close to the top.

[jonebone]

Well, like I said, it's just anecdotal evidence. I reserve the right to be incorrect with my observations of the state the XB1 is in now. :)

But even if Nintendo somehow does manage to keep Microsoft in sight, I think that just means that Microsoft is in trouble rather than a positive sign for Nintendo. I just can't imagine the Wii U over a year in ever coming to dominate this generation or even being particularly close to the top.

Yeah... I'm not predicting the Wii U to win this gen at all, just stating that it won't be aborted or anything.

I think MS will really feel some backlash over that $500 price point unless they get some must-play exclusives in Q1 or Q2 2014. I'm a sucker and bought it just for Dead Rising 3, but I think most people will be content with waiting for a price drop, or until more games come out. I'm also not a fan of the kinect either.

[Bojay1997]

So provide a better data source then? NPD usually consists of software sales and their reports are hard to find. It's just as good of a source as any, and it also supports the 1 million PS4 / 1 million XB1s within their first 24 hours story.

As for the XB1 / PS4 outselling the Wii U during their initial holiday release window... no shit? Everyone knows that the console release market is dominated by resellers and they are expected to be out of stock for a month or so after release. For the Wii U to sell anything at all in this time span really says a lot about their success despite the MS / Sony hype. Yes it has bombed out of the gate and I agree with you on that, but when sales triple / quadruple in a time period where your competition just tripled... well it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that is a huge win.

This thread makes it seem like the Wii U is on life support, when in reality, it already survived the darkest days and it has now gained steam. And a price drop from $350 to $300 (for the deluxe + bundled game) isn't a death blow either... let's not forget how the 3DS took a $250 to $180 ($170?) price drop within a month or two of release. Look at how the 3DS sales really turned around.

I'm not preaching that the Wii U is going to win this console war, it's just silly to think that it is destined to failure. The current sales numbers should show the turnaround.

NPD provides console sales data as well, at least for Microsoft and Sony. Nintendo refuses to participate in NPD, so there is no accurate way of determining Nintendo sales. Any data that is out there is stuff Nintendo has provided and frankly, all Nintendo has said this holiday season is that sales increased for the WiiU in November over October by 340%. That's great, except that the best estimates for October are around 100K units from the analysts I have seen. So, best case Nintendo did about 350K units worldwide in November which is far less than the VG Charts estimate and frankly not good when you consider that PS4 and Xbox One haven't even launched worldwide in all of the markets WiiU is in just yet. Nintendo set a target of 9 million WiiU units sold from March 2013 to March 2014 and they are still massively off of that target. As such, Nintendo is well aware that they have a huge problem on their hands.

I was a day one WiiU adopter and I enjoy Nintendo first party games. I even bought a second WiiU when they released the Zelda bundle and I gave my nephews a WiiU Mario bundle this past holiday. Having said all that, I have been playing and collecting games for many years and I know a failure when I see one. Unfortunately, WiiU is a failure and no amount of spin and wishful thinking is going to turn that around. A price cut, must have games and a stronger marketing campaign are all things that could possibly prolong the life of the WiiU, but the tablet makes that a very difficult proposition on the price side as it's just a very large fixed cost that isn't coming down in the volumes currently being produced and sold. Perhaps I will be proven wrong, but I doubt it given all the evidence that continues to pile up that things aren't going well for the WiiU.

[WCP]

I don't know man... I still think the Wii U sales will be a big disappointment this Xmas. I'm sure the Mario game will help it (how can it not ?), but I just don't think it will be anywhere near enough to turn the tide for them. Like I was saying before, Nintendo is a publicly traded company, and unlike Microsoft and Sony, they don't really have all these other industries that they are involved in. They have portable gaming and home console gaming. Portable gaming is doing well for them, the home console gaming thing is causing some serious problems to their bottom line. The shareholders are going to demand that they have some sort of plan to really make a drastic change in the sales numbers.


The only viable plan that I can think of is to ditch the tablet and drop the price to $199.99 . The system will never take off unless the price drops to that magical 199 price point (or lower). Nintendo isn't going to want to take a huge bath on every unit sold, so they have to cut costs by taking the tablet out of the equation. I know it seems like madness to think they could just remove the tablet from the equation, but basically they would still make the tablet available for separate purchase, and they could still offer an elite bundle that include the tablet, but basically the focus would be taken away from the controller and put more on the actual games like 3D Mario World that don't really require the tablet to do anything special.

Future games could still offer special features to owners of the tablet, but for the most part, tablet dependent games will become the exception, and not the norm.


I think the next shareholder meeting is like January 29th. That meeting is going to be really interesting, because by that point in time, they will have a very good idea of how much this Xmas season either helped or hurt them. If Mario World really did change things for them, then maybe they will be able to convince the shareholders to calm down, but I just don't think sales have enjoyed that huge a bump.

We'll have to wait and see.

[Niku-Sama]

just noticed tonite that my local game stop had regular non bundled 32gb wii u systems for $250.
looked like they were new even

[jonebone]

I don't know man... I still think the Wii U sales will be a big disappointment this Xmas. I'm sure the Mario game will help it (how can it not ?), but I just don't think it will be anywhere near enough to turn the tide for them. Like I was saying before, Nintendo is a publicly traded company, and unlike Microsoft and Sony, they don't really have all these other industries that they are involved in. They have portable gaming and home console gaming. Portable gaming is doing well for them, the home console gaming thing is causing some serious problems to their bottom line. The shareholders are going to demand that they have some sort of plan to really make a drastic change in the sales numbers.


The only viable plan that I can think of is to ditch the tablet and drop the price to $199.99 . The system will never take off unless the price drops to that magical 199 price point (or lower). Nintendo isn't going to want to take a huge bath on every unit sold, so they have to cut costs by taking the tablet out of the equation. I know it seems like madness to think they could just remove the tablet from the equation, but basically they would still make the tablet available for separate purchase, and they could still offer an elite bundle that include the tablet, but basically the focus would be taken away from the controller and put more on the actual games like 3D Mario World that don't really require the tablet to do anything special.

With all due respect, you simply don't understand the business model and I'm glad you aren't calling shots at Nintendo.

The current business model, starting last generation, is to basically sell the console under cost, and then use the software sales to turn a profit. I don't have specific numbers on hand, but PS3 started that trend with a $600 console that they were still losing money on. Then they were forced to drop it to $500 to spur demand, and they were really bleeding cash on the console sales. I think it took them 3 or 4 years of production to finally start breaking even on console sales.

Same concept here. Except Nintendo is leveraging off of production efficiencies and their handheld technologies to keep the cost of the Wii U down. With each passing day, the Wii U is cheaper and cheaper for them to produce.

The time for investors to bail on Nintendo would have been Spring 2013 with absymal Wii U sales. Not now after sales have have basically quadrupled from October. People would have already abandoned ship if they wanted too.

And Nintendo handhelds aren't merely doing well, they are absolutely slaughtering the competition and are Nintendo's cash cow. Sony survived the PS3 by relying on other technologies like TVs, and Nintendo can easily survive the Wii U off 3DS hardware and gaming software.

Price drops won't even enter the discussion unless the Wii U sales tank to the 50k-75k weekly range (or lower) again. And getting rid of the tablet will not enter the discussion ever.

[Tanooki]

Something worth noting as you said that (WCP) Nintendo only has their systems for home and on the go. One thing that should be factored in too is that they own the billion dollar Pokemon Company which isnt just 3DS games, but card battling games, plushies, clothes, toys, other merch and amusement parks along with free standing stores. They have other assets as well. Sure the WiiU has been suffering but the profitability is there now which wasn
t there before. The system needs to make money and it is. Plus your irrational argument of removing the tablet will and can not ever happen. The game you named as a reason itself uses it specifically in some stages to interact with the environment so you can progress to the finish of the worlds. Sure there are a lot that do not really need it or to a point could have it patched out moving display items to the tv, but some titles its part of the design and they
d be a loss and Nintendo just wouldn't wreck games to cut that out.

That stockholder meeting will be a mix of an apology over not seeming to hit their projected numbers but will be positive in showing a large uptick that was just too late to hit that number but will show large improvement in general sales giving a better outlook.

[Bojay1997]

With all due respect, you simply don't understand the business model and I'm glad you aren't calling shots at Nintendo.

The current business model, starting last generation, is to basically sell the console under cost, and then use the software sales to turn a profit. I don't have specific numbers on hand, but PS3 started that trend with a $600 console that they were still losing money on. Then they were forced to drop it to $500 to spur demand, and they were really bleeding cash on the console sales. I think it took them 3 or 4 years of production to finally start breaking even on console sales.

Same concept here. Except Nintendo is leveraging off of production efficiencies and their handheld technologies to keep the cost of the Wii U down. With each passing day, the Wii U is cheaper and cheaper for them to produce.

The time for investors to bail on Nintendo would have been Spring 2013 with absymal Wii U sales. Not now after sales have have basically quadrupled from October. People would have already abandoned ship if they wanted too.

And Nintendo handhelds aren't merely doing well, they are absolutely slaughtering the competition and are Nintendo's cash cow. Sony survived the PS3 by relying on other technologies like TVs, and Nintendo can easily survive the Wii U off 3DS hardware and gaming software.

Price drops won't even enter the discussion unless the Wii U sales tank to the 50k-75k weekly range (or lower) again. And getting rid of the tablet will not enter the discussion ever.

It's pretty clear you don't understand Nintendo. They are unwilling to sell hardware at a loss and WiiU is no exception to that. Even with the bundles and price cutting, they still make money on every unit sold. The pad may be a drain on the profit margin, but the hardware inside the WiiU is badly outdated when compared to the Xbox One and PS4 and provides a healthy profit margin. Investors in Nintendo are no different than any other company. Nintendo promised them 9 million units sold between March 2013 and March 2014. At this rate, they will miss that target by more than half. That won't sit well with investors especially since Nintendo reported an $80 million plus loss last quarter that was attributed to WiiU sales.

I agree that the tablet will never disappear, but Nintendo does not have other business lines to fall back on like Sony or Microsoft, so if WiiU continues to underperform, investors will likely pressure Nintendo to focus on handhelds and Pokemon and either significantly scale back support for the WiiU like Sony has done with the Vita or pull the plug altogether.

[jonebone]

It's pretty clear you don't understand Nintendo. They are unwilling to sell hardware at a loss and WiiU is no exception to that. Even with the bundles and price cutting, they still make money on every unit sold.

Do you even know what you're talking about, or do you just like to make stuff up to support your argument?

Ever since the Wii U came out, Nintendo reported they were selling them at a loss.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-25-nintendo-admits-wii-u-to-be-sold-at-loss

"The Wii U hardware will have a negative impact on Nintendo's profits early after the launch," Iwata explained, "because rather than determining a price based on its manufacturing cost, we selected one that consumers would consider to be reasonable."

Their strategy was to turn a profit as soon as the first piece of software was purchased.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-21-wii-u-profitable-with-just-one-game-sale-nintendo-reveals

Get your facts straight before adding "insight".

[Bojay1997]

Do you even know what you're talking about, or do you just like to make stuff up to support your argument?

Ever since the Wii U came out, Nintendo reported they were selling them at a loss.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-25-nintendo-admits-wii-u-to-be-sold-at-loss

"The Wii U hardware will have a negative impact on Nintendo's profits early after the launch," Iwata explained, "because rather than determining a price based on its manufacturing cost, we selected one that consumers would consider to be reasonable."

Their strategy was to turn a profit as soon as the first piece of software was purchased.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-21-wii-u-profitable-with-just-one-game-sale-nintendo-reveals

Get your facts straight before adding "insight".

You're correct and I will concede the point. Unfortunately, by taking a loss on every unit sold, it completely undermines your argument that the WiiU is doing fine. The fact that AAA titles like Super Mario World 3D only did 200K in sales in the first few weeks (including almost half of that digitally) is frankly quite alarming since that is really Nintendo's only means of making money on the WiiU.

[Leo_A]

Nintendo just needs to keep slogging it out. I think they can make Wii U turn a profit in the end even if it's just a modest one. At this point, I think that would be a win for Nintendo especially if the 3DS can continue to bolster them for a few more years to offset their troubled console half.

With their changing markets (3DS struggled too and has found its niche in the end delivering console quality handheld experiences with most of the casual business evaporating) , I suspect their next generation hardware will be a combined handheld/console. And I think that's going to be a hit and Nintendo's full development resources dedicated to a single platform is an attractive proposition.


The only viable plan that I can think of is to ditch the tablet and drop the price to $199.99 .

The tablet gamepad is a strength, albeit it a modest one much to Nintendo's chagrin, not a weakness. And even if it was, it's much too ingrained here to be eliminated after the fact.

Not a viable plan at all.

[Bojay1997]

With their changing markets (3DS struggled too and has found its niche in the end delivering console quality handheld experiences with most of the casual business evaporating) , I suspect their next generation hardware will be a combined handheld/console. And I think that's going to be a hit and Nintendo's full development resources dedicated to a single platform is an attractive proposition.


I agree with this. I think Nintendo's next move will be a hybrid console/handheld similar to the NVidia Shield. I also agree with you that they will probably keep slogging along with the WiiU for a few more years. I suspect they will reduce the development assets being put into WiiU software and focus more on 3DS where software sales are still strong, especially on the digital side where there is no profit loss to distributors, retailers and for physical media duplication and packaging as well as shipping.

[jonebone]

I think Nintendo's next move should be something that links the 3DS games to the Wii U. Like a Super Gameboy to play 3DS games on the Wii U. They already have a ton of 3DS owners out there, and if they can somehow incentivize them to buy a Wii U, that'll really help their bottom line numbers.

I have a couple of 3DS XLs and 1 Wii U myself, but I imagine most 3DS owners do not have the Wii U at all.

[BlastProcessing402]

You can't even change system settings or access the eshop without the gamepad, no way are they ever getting rid of it. It's far more integral to the system than say, that stupid Kinect MS forces you to buy with an Xbone.

And someone must have been buying WiiU's this year, enough to completely knock out the WiiU eshop for several days due to too much traffic.

I'm not saying Nintendo will be in 1st place like last gen, but they're hardly in trouble the way so many internet armchair CEO's like to proclaim.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

the only things that can save them in my eyes apart from the obvious price drop to something like $200 is releasing a 3ds adapter that allows you to play them upscaled on ur gamepad/tv, releasing a full triple AAA mario title for the holidays (mario 3d worlds isnt in the same league as galaxy or mario 64, admit it) and possibly funding exclusive titles with 3rd parties like theyre doing with platinum but on a wider scale (SHENMUE 3!!!)

[RPG_Fanatic]

Not really... the PS4 is the only one with the constrained supply. XB1s have been very plentiful since the week before Xmas (12/15). I saw an XB1 at Target / Wal-Mart everytime I went by there, and I saw dozens on the floor at Best Buy. It was also went into continual restock on Amazon.com around that time.

PS4 on the other hand... stock definitely did not meet demand and I only saw a single one of those all holidays season. Saw one on a shelf at a Wal-Mart and that was it.

When I go to Walmart sometimes they have XB1 & PS4's but when I go back within a day or two all the XB1's and PS4's are all gone and the Wii U's are still sitting there. So XB1 & PS4's are still selling a lot more then Wii U's around here.

[WCP]

The tablet gamepad is a strength, albeit it a modest one much to Nintendo's chagrin, not a weakness. And even if it was, it's much too ingrained here to be eliminated after the fact.

Not a viable plan at all.


Well, the way I see it, is that Nintendo could just stubbornly continue with their current strategy, and the Wii U could end up enjoying the same fate as the GameCube. While we might look back on the GameCube with fond memories, it wasn't a very successful product for Nintendo, in the grand scheme of things. It wasn't a Dreamcast or a Saturn, but it wasn't a huge success for them. Also, the GameCube actually had "some" 3rd party support during it's lifetime, and the Wii U is on life support when you look at 3rd party games coming in the future. EA put Madden and Fifa on the GameCube each year, but they've abandoned the Wii U after only 1 year. Nintendo would need their sales to improve pretty dramatically for companies like EA to consider putting games on the Wii U again.


Also, you have to consider the situation that Nintendo is in right now. They had an unthinkable amount of success with the Wii . It was a phenomenon like none other. They made boatloads of profit with the Wii. They made boatloads of profit with the DS. Current shareholders of Nintendo have memories of record profits and a huge user base. They expect Nintendo's products to do gangbuster sales, and they probably don't remember the mediocre times of the GameCube. That was so long ago now. Gamecube level sales aren't going to cut it in this modern day and era. The number of humans that play video games has increased by leaps and bounds since the days of the gamecube. I just don't think the shareholders are going to live with the mediocrity of gamecube level sales.


The only way that I could imagine Nintendo making a dramatic change in their Wii U sales is with a HUGE pricecut. I'm talking $199. Half the price of the PS4. They need to go even further than that, by throwing the newest Mario game in the box. But we know that Nintendo isn't going to take a bath on each system sold. That just isn't in their DNA. So, they have to justify the whole thing, and if you remove the cost of the tablet controller, I think they would be able to sell the Wii U at cost at $199 sans tablet, but including the pro controller and Mario.


The crazy thing is, even if Nintendo put the new Mario in the box, and dropped the price to $199 (replacing the tablet with the pro controller), even all of that might not be enough to jump start the Wii U. That's the crazy thing. You'd think if Nintendo did all that, it would guarantee success for the Wii U, but the reality is that the sales might not improve enough to make it all worth it, and that's with them taking drastic measures.

[Tanooki]

Your argument makes a lot of sense and is sound except for one small but important part, the foolish notion they'd abandon the tablet. It won't happen and it can not happen. It isn't something that is a relative choice like making a cheap 2DS out of a 3DS was. Many games use it for some tangible reasons and for those games (minority mind you with Nintendoland and ZombiU for example) that have no choice but to use it as a part of a game would be royally screwed. As far as lost third parties go, they don't need to drive off the few they have left by cutting their games out of the mix as Ubisoft would be the big one that did make tablet required games who would be cut out of new system sales if it was removed.

I can see a middle ground, but I think Nintendo would consider it consumer confusion and a middle finger to existing owners, and that would be the 2DS and 3DS side by side approach of selling a pricier system with it, and a stripped one without while actively(which the idiots don't do) selling the tablet on the open market.

[Press_Start]

Yeah, funny how your idea of removing the gamepad will "save Wii U from becoming the next Gamecube" exactly guarantees the Wii U will BECOME the next Gamecube. Are you serious? You and everyone that thinks like this are like pathological know-nothings that would go up to a woman, call her a "S-L-U-T" then cordially offer her $5 to take off her clothes and give you a lap dance like you're the one doing her a favor! Self-fulfilling prophecy....degrading, delusional, and all.

SM3d World flopping? It's just sold over a million copies.

Is the Wii U having a disappointing season? It sold close to 5 million units LTD. Is that good thing? Yes. Is it something to celebrate? After a year of screw-ups....hell no! Should Nintendo be continuously hyping Wii U nonstop in an endless bombardment of promotions, advertisements, buy-ins and TV commercials til Christmas 2020? Absofreakinlutely! Should they start right this millisecond? Duh.

[Bojay1997]

Yeah, funny how your idea of removing the gamepad will "save Wii U from becoming the next Gamecube" exactly guarantees the Wii U will BECOME the next Gamecube. Are you serious? You and everyone that thinks like this are like pathological know-nothings that would go up to a woman, call her a "S-L-U-T" then cordially offer her $5 to take off her clothes and give you a lap dance like you're the one doing her a favor! Self-fulfilling prophecy....degrading, delusional, and all.

SM3d World flopping? It's just sold over a million copies.

Is the Wii U having a disappointing season? It sold close to 5 million units LTD. Is that good thing? Yes. Is it something to celebrate? After a year of screw-ups....hell no! Should Nintendo be continuously hyping Wii U nonstop in an endless bombardment of promotions, advertisements, buy-ins and TV commercials til Christmas 2020? Absofreakinlutely! Should they start right this millisecond? Duh.

According to NPD as of mid-December, SMW3D has only sold about 215K units in the US. Japanese source Mediacreate is saying about 330K in Japan. Best case scenario, Europe is probably half of the US given the install base there. I'm not sure how VGChartz arrived at their 1 million figure, but no reputable source including Nintendo itself is reporting that. Please spend some time reviewing the comments in the Gamespot posting explaining why nobody uses VGChartz as a reliable source. It's simply made up data.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/super-mario-3d-world-hits-1m-sales-knack-and-light-31011257/

[Tanooki]

VG Chartz is flawed because not everyone reports to the NPD. Nintendo won't, Toys R Us won't and neither will Walmart if I remember right, and screwy enough Nintendo's biggest sellers are those who won't report so it's really impossible to get accurate US data on them. 1M might be right, 500K might be right, who the hell knows as it's bad data.

[Bojay1997]

VG Chartz is flawed because not everyone reports to the NPD. Nintendo won't, Toys R Us won't and neither will Walmart if I remember right, and screwy enough Nintendo's biggest sellers are those who won't report so it's really impossible to get accurate US data on them. 1M might be right, 500K might be right, who the hell knows as it's bad data.

VG Chartz doesn't use NPD data. They use "small retail samples" and then try to extrapolate from that. They also won't disclose their sources which is why nobody considers them credible. Nintendo doesn't report to NPD, but distributors and many retailers certainly do and Nintendo generally confirms what NPD reports after the fact by commenting on it in a press release. As such, most industry folks consider the NPD to be pretty accurate even if Nintendo won't provide data to them directly.

[Greg2600]

FWIW I read that the Wii U outsold the XBOX One in the week to Christmas.

[Bojay1997]

FWIW I read that the Wii U outsold the XBOX One in the week to Christmas.

Again, these "articles" were derived from the VG Chartz data that is totally speculative. While it might be true, we won't know until the NPD data comes out and Nintendo comments on it.

[Greg2600]

Call me crazy, but I've held the opinion that the Wii U and Nintendo's greatest difficulty is the Wiii. The Wii sold like gangbusters for several years, but then was overwhelmed by the 360/PS3. Essentially, the Wii kids got older and wanted the "adolescent/grown up" system. The lack of horsepower on the Wii added to the lack of decent 3rd party titles as the system wound down lost a lot of market share. Those gamers abandoned Nintendo for Sony/MS, and are or will buy their new gen. consoles instead. Using the Wii name again was unwise. I would concur with others that Nintendo will probably have something that morphs standard/mobile gaming like the Shield in the future. Nintendo does have a niche for younger kids though through it's 1st party stuff, as well as gamers who love Zelda/Mario/Pikmin/Pokemon/etc. I don't know if I'm that concerned over low SMBW3D sales because again, Nintendo's Wii U is now somewhat in a niche now. They didn't differentiate from the Wii enough.

[Press_Start]

Call me crazy, but I've held the opinion that the Wii U and Nintendo's greatest difficulty is the Wiii. The Wii sold like gangbusters for several years, but then was overwhelmed by the 360/PS3. Essentially, the Wii kids got older and wanted the "adolescent/grown up" system. The lack of horsepower on the Wii added to the lack of decent 3rd party titles as the system wound down lost a lot of market share. Those gamers abandoned Nintendo for Sony/MS, and are or will buy their new gen. consoles instead. Using the Wii name again was unwise. I would concur with others that Nintendo will probably have something that morphs standard/mobile gaming like the Shield in the future. Nintendo does have a niche for younger kids though through it's 1st party stuff, as well as gamers who love Zelda/Mario/Pikmin/Pokemon/etc. I don't know if I'm that concerned over low SMBW3D sales because again, Nintendo's Wii U is now somewhat in a niche now. They didn't differentiate from the Wii enough.

Oh yes, toddlers go from diapers to teenagers so fast it's a marvel of modern science and 1+1+2+1 is 6. :p

[Mangar]

The biggest problem with the Wii U - Is that if you want a next-gen console, it's not a viable option.

To explain: To any gamer right now sitting on the sidelines saying to himself "Hey - I wanna enjoy the next generation of console gaming!" He has only two real options, neither of which is the Wii U. (I'd argue Steam and PC is better, but I digress) However, were he to simply wish to play the next generation of Mario Platformers or Zelda games - Then he can get a Wii U. Which sadly is quite a bit of money just to play a couple games, and KNOWING that you are missing out on the next generation of gaming. The casual types who drove Wii sales, are by definition - Casual types. There isn't enough reason to upgrade from their original Wii. I don't even think a price tag of 199$ will help it at this point.

For me? I'll pick up a Wii U on the bargain bin in the next year or so...

[WCP]

Your argument makes a lot of sense and is sound except for one small but important part, the foolish notion they'd abandon the tablet. It won't happen and it can not happen. It isn't something that is a relative choice like making a cheap 2DS out of a 3DS was. Many games use it for some tangible reasons and for those games (minority mind you with Nintendoland and ZombiU for example) that have no choice but to use it as a part of a game would be royally screwed. .


Look, the people that own Zombie U and Nintendoland, already have the Tablet. The new customers buying the "core " sku of Wii U are going to be interested in new games. New games don't seem to be emphasizing the tablet as much, which leads me to believe that Nintendo has internally already considered the possibility of moving away from the tablet as a big part of the Wii U.


Also, they would have to try to patch games that have heavy touchpad use, to possibly also just work with the Pro Controller. They will have to explain to new buyers that some old Wii U software might not be compatible with the "core" system, and certain tablet "enhancements" are only available for those with the tablet controller, and of course they have to have the Tablet controller available separately for people that get the "core" system. Games that use the Wii U tablet exclusively, will be fewer and fewer (if they decide to do this). Instead, the tablet will be mostly used to enhance the experience, but they will dumb it down with the idea that people who only have a pro controller can play Mario Kart and Mario and Zelda.

It would be a drastic measure, to be sure, but drastic situations like the one they are in, call for drastic measures.

[Press_Start]

Look, the people that own Zombie U and Nintendoland, already have the Tablet. The new customers buying the "core " sku of Wii U are going to be interested in new games. New games don't seem to be emphasizing the tablet as much, which leads me to believe that Nintendo has internally already considered the possibility of moving away from the tablet as a big part of the Wii U.


Also, they would have to try to patch games that have heavy touchpad use, to possibly also just work with the Pro Controller. They will have to explain to new buyers that some old Wii U software might not be compatible with the "core" system, and certain tablet "enhancements" are only available for those with the tablet controller, and of course they have to have the Tablet controller available separately for people that get the "core" system. Games that use the Wii U tablet exclusively, will be fewer and fewer (if they decide to do this). Instead, the tablet will be mostly used to enhance the experience, but they will dumb it down with the idea that people who only have a pro controller can play Mario Kart and Mario and Zelda.

It would be a drastic measure, to be sure, but drastic situations like the one they are in, call for drastic measures.

Translation: "Nintendo....ur a 'ore! Now git buck naked n' bring ur pasty trash behind over here. Giv big papa some sugar. And if ya preddy nice, i'll get let u keep ol' Abe ive gaht tucked in mi pants. Heh heh HEH *licking his toothless grin.*"

[Tanooki]

What press start said, I guess. :P

WCP I think we'll just not have to agree, you're on your own with that one. Nintendo backing off the tablet would have to be an absolute desperate to the end last move stunt and I just don't see them doing that at all if the system stays profitable which it appears to be now. I think you just want it so bad you can taste it because Nintendo would have failed, the price would come down hard, and it would be affordable as a ghetto discount box and I just don't see Nintendo wanting to be that guy. They're all about the unique experience since they can't compete with the other two, by their own fault, since they refuse to work with third parties to create a box they want to make games on, so they're forced to stick to their guns now.

[jonebone]

Anyone in the market for a Wii U... this bundle just went live on eBay via buy.com. The Mario / Luigi bundle for $260 free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Wii-U-32GB-Black-Deluxe-Set-w-Super-Mario-U-Super-Luigi-U/161191973879

The Black Friday deal was this bundle at $250 with free shipping, and it sold all 2,000 units within 12 minutes. Not sure how long this will last, but if anyone is on the fence, this is a great bundle to have. I paid $300 + tax for it in store in early December and have gotten an easy 40+ hours of play with the wife on Mario / Luigi and Mario 3D world.

[jonebone]

Well nevermind, 400 gone in 35 minutes.

[jonebone]

Another doom and gloom article for the Wii U today, Nintendo finally slashed their estimates from 9 million Wii Us in the year ending March 2014 to 2.8 million:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-slashes-wii-u-sales-expectations-by-two-thirds/1100-6417187/

We all knew they had no chance in hell of hitting 9 million but I'm sure the stock will take a nosedive now. I think 2.8 million is actually a pretty decent number considering how much of a dud it was last spring (probably paced to do 1.5 millionish), but Nintendo just way over estimated their projections.

[Garry Silljo]

You want doom and gloom? I went to GameStop and asked for a list of titles for the Wii U available for pre-order.



It was only 7 games long.

[PreZZ]

nhl 14 on the tablet would have been so f* sweet!