RetroN5: Hands on first look [Archive] - Page 19

YoshiM

09-29-2014, 03:05 PM

Tomorrow I will be picking up a RetroN5 from a local game shop after I bring in some trades. I've been on the fence for a while as I have an Ouya filled to the gills with ROMs. When I feel in the mood to play an old game, I'll link my Wii Classic Controller Pro (or whatever it's called) and go at it that way and for the most part it works for me.

Last night I took my Ouya to my friend's house so her kids could play some classic Super Mario. It was a mix of boys and girls (grand total of 5 playing) with ages ranging from 9 to 4. Overall it went ok but they seemed to have issues with the Pro controller and hand placement. I lost count how many times they accidentally went into the emulator menu. All the while I was wishing I had USB adapters for my original NES controllers as they would have no problems.

Now granted I could get the adapters but by the time I was done I'd be close to the price of a RetroN5 without factoring the price of the Ouya. I like the idea of inserting cartridges in and using my refurbished original controllers. I get that nostalgic feel while the kids will get to experience a combination of the "old school" (cartridges, the original controllers) with the new (HDMI, state saves, etc.).

As a side note, if there's a language patch for it I can finally play Dragon Quest 4 that I got from Queen of Felines way back in the first Secret Santa!

Oh yes, and the 4-year old rocked everyone playing Legend of Zelda. She got the farthest out of everyone.

BTR

09-29-2014, 03:06 PM

Not looking too bright for PAL region gamers right now, it appears there are still CE marking problems
http://www.funstock.co.uk/news/retron-5-status-update-sept-2014/

Satoshi_Matrix

09-29-2014, 07:21 PM

Tanooki

09-29-2014, 09:10 PM

BTR the only semi-official reasoning I was given by the tech for the CE backed regions is that it's not hyperkin, nor is it a major issue with the system, it's one little thing -- bluetooth. The supplier of the bluetooth device in the system and controller supposedly refuses to submit the schematics/designs to the CE board for approval for some mystery(at the time I was told like 2 months ago, maybe it isn't one now) reasoning. Until that supplier decides to act like adults and do whats needed people who have to work with the CE are SOL unless they import.

Satoshi_Matrix

09-30-2014, 12:11 AM

Part 2 is now published:

This time I thoroughly explain and detail the user interface of the Retron5 as well as go over each of its features, and give my impression on them. Spoilers: all but one of the filters are terrible and you are terrible if you use them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyRbAeRzfZI

Gameguy

09-30-2014, 12:26 AM

YoshiM

09-30-2014, 02:36 AM

If you already have an Ouya, the Retron5 might not be something worth buying. It depends on your physical cartridge collection size and your devotion to physical media. I've found that the Retron5 and Ouya are very similar devices and the main reason to go for the Ouya is if you'd rather just play virtually any game via the ROM file or want to instead put in the cart and play that. The Ouya does more and costs less, but the Retron5 feels more "authentic".

Just some food for thought before you plop down the money to buy a Retron5.

Well let's think about this. Controllers are a big thing for me and not using the original controllers is a deal breaker. I tried using the Classic Pro or the Ouya controller (which is not that grand) and it doesn't feel good in my hands. To match the number of connectors that the RetroN5 has, figuring $10 per USB cord per controller (being optimistic on cheap prices here) so that would be $60. Then I need a USB hub which can go for what, $10 to $20 for a decent one? Let's say $15. I'm at $75. Factor in the price of the Ouya at $100, which I paid rounded up for ease of math and we're at $175 TCO for the hardware. Even with just figuring the adapters-I'm more than halfway to a RetroN5. Granted you could say I made out like a bandit with all the ROMs but then again there's that copyright thang.

I like physical media. Heck I listen to albums and tapes more than digital music from my iphone or computer. To insert a cartridge and then use the original controller, the one I've used for over twenty years-feels great. The ceremony is something that cannot be imitated by digital.

Tonight my plans fell through and I was able to get the RetroN. I love it! The cart slot is a little tight but that will loosen over time. I turned Overscan on and played some SMB and other than a singular graphical goof with the coin indicator, it was nearly perfect. The music, which was fast on the Ouya, was at the proper speed. My play was not hampered by delays or anything- it responded like I was on the original hardware.

This is gonna be fun! I can finally pull my. Blaster Master cart out and play it to completion!

Eternal Champion

09-30-2014, 01:27 PM

This is gonna be fun! I can finally pull my. Blaster Master cart out and play it to completion!
This is something that makes me think about the Retron5 - I assume it allows you to create save states with the ROMs. I have Blaster Master, Bionic Commando, Rygar, my favorite games, but I rarely play them because of adult life - can only play for short spurts at a time.

Tanooki

09-30-2014, 01:55 PM

Gameguy... too cheap? I have no idea. I'd dump their asses and get another part supplier too considering the lost business I think would outweigh tolerating this junk.

YoshiM that's been my entire feel on the pro-con of it over Ouya and how it feels when the games actually work in it too which is why I like the thing.

Satoshi - That's lq2x (low quality 2x and hq is high quality)...I know calling any of those filters high or quality is a joke, but that's what that is. I never liked them on the computer, don't like them on the TV with the R5 either as they're just muddy or blurry.

YoshiM

09-30-2014, 02:21 PM

This is something that makes me think about the Retron5 - I assume it allows you to create save states with the ROMs. I have Blaster Master, Bionic Commando, Rygar, my favorite games, but I rarely play them because of adult life - can only play for short spurts at a time.

I'm thinking so as when you bring up the Home menu in game is shows save slots. It also auto saves where you left off so when you play again you continue.

Going back to the "physicalness" of the Retron, I think another way to look at it is that having all of these ROMs lessens the perception of value. Of course this is totally subjective, mind you, but having all of these games as files feels "cheap" when I grew up during a time when games came far and few and even when I could afford to rent a ton of games over a summer, each one seemed like a prize. Then there's that tactile sense of holding a cart and looking a the art or perhaps the cartridge looks different. I hardly have any boxes but I do have manuals and that just adds to the experience.

I just picked up "Dolucky A League Soccer" for the kids (it's soccer with animals and the animation is smooth and cute) and Super Air Diver from a local shop. Can't wait to try those out (gotta find a SNES controller in the future).

09-30-2014, 08:30 PM

To insert a cartridge and then use the original controller, the one I've used for over twenty years-feels great. The ceremony is something that cannot be imitated by digital.

I have a USB to Sega Genesis adapter I tried on the Ouya. While the adapter does work, it doesn't work on all games/programs and you're still forced to use the stock Ouya controller to navigate the menus.

While I enjoy the system I absolutely hate the Ouya controller. It takes spells at random where it has a huge delay, I'm talking 5-10 seconds, so bad that you can't even navigate the frontend much less play a game. I've got alternative controllers to use (PS3, Wii, the above mentioned adapter) but you are still forced to lug out the original Ouya controller and fool with it just to get a game started. That is a huge drawback and makes me not even want to bother with playing the system.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-01-2014, 12:36 AM

Part 3 is now live.

Come explore the Famicom, from games like Mario 3 to technical gems like Lagrange Point and JustBreed, all in glorious 720p.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g82J_dvwIWY

Tanooki

10-01-2014, 08:29 PM

Hey the vaus controller doesn't work on the R5 as support isn't there for it as they never added it. Also on real hardware, vaus will not work on arkanoid 2, cheapo taito redid it so they could sell 2 vaus controllers (one for each game) which is sleazy. Those multicarts, most wont' work, they need to get the mapper data to add the specific code needed for each. The only reason the supervision 115in1 I have works is that I dug it up and sent them the information so I know multis can work.

I own these famicom games below, they all work 100% correctly in audio, visuals, and gameplay (flow/control.)
- Akumajyou Densetsu (Castlevania III)
- Armadillo
- Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa ("Baby Mario" - Famiclone)
- Choujikuu Yousai - Macross (Super Dimension Fortress Macross)
- Crisis Force (CI)
- Daiku no Gen San (Hammerin' Harry)
- Joy Mech Fight
- Kyattou Ninden Teyandee (Samurai Pizza Cats)
- Mitsume ga Tooru (Three Eyed One)
- Moon Crystal (Famiclone)
- Parodius Da!
- Splatterhouse Wanpaku Graffiti
- Super Mario Bros. 2 ("Golden Mario" - Famiclone)
- Twinbee
- Twinbee 3: Poko Poko Dai Maou (The Great Demon King Poko Poko)
- Wai Wai World 2: SOS!! Paseri Jou (SOS!! Parsley Castle)
- (The) Wing of Madoola
- Yume Penguin Monogatari (Story of the Dream Penguin)

You'll see a good few of those use most of the Konami VRC chips as well as a Namco and Sunsoft chip game in there too.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-02-2014, 12:51 AM

I own most of those too. The reason I didn't cover them was simply because most of them are using common uninteresting mappers, mostly mapper 4. Once one mapper 4 game works then they all will since it's so universal.

I wanted to cover some of the more oddball mappers while also avoiding games that would set off the damn copyright claim bots. Also, a bunch of Famicom games I've converted to 72 pin versions or made reproductions of.

Speaking of which.

Part 4.

Now you're playing with power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lNZJFUVhk

nusilver

10-02-2014, 11:18 AM

So, the Retron 5 MSRP just went up $20. Hope everyone who really wanted one got it when it was $140.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-02-2014, 01:47 PM

eh? do you have a source on that?

Tanooki

10-02-2014, 02:10 PM

Hey Battle Kid 2 I think uses that newer chipset/board retrozone cooked up where it writes back to the chip so I have my doubts that game or Study Hall will ever run on the R5. I sold it fairly recently but Micro Machines DOES work on the R5 unless they killed support on accident in v2.0beta any version. I also had Firehawk and Mig29 that worked too.

buzz_n64

10-02-2014, 06:17 PM

So, the Retron 5 MSRP just went up $20. Hope everyone who really wanted one got it when it was $140.

Wait! Up?! :yipes:

Satoshi_Matrix

10-02-2014, 07:04 PM

So yesterday, Hyperkin emailed retailers who carry it the following:

Hello,

The RetroN 5 has been the most ambitious project Hyperkin has ever undertaken, both on the software and hardware end. Hyperkin has committed to keep releasing firmware updates to make the user experience more enjoyable. We have also begun adding higher quality components to improve the RetroN'5s build quality. The demand for the Retron 5 has exceeded our expectations and as a result, plans have been made to increase production.

Due to the reasons above, Hyperkin will change the MSRP of the RetroN 5 to $159.99. This price revision will result in a higher profit margin for every RetroN 5 sold from retailers.

Thank you for being a part of the RetroN 5's success. We look forward to hearing from you soon.

Kind regards,
Hyperkin

So it looks like Hyperkin is making a second production run using higher quality components and adjusting the MSRP to ensure the same profit margin while increasing the quality .

This probably isn't the best idea since most consumers who don't own a Retron5 are either
a) waiting for a price drop and not a price increase or/and
b) already anti Hyperkin.

this isn't going to do anything but add fuel to the trolls who already hate on Hyperkin. Those of us who already have a Retron5 will be of course, unaffected, but man is this one weird decision.

In any case, my role is still just going to be to talk about the system itself, and its strengths and weakness. Nothing else. The rest of the politics Hyperkin needs to sort out themselves and I want nothing to do with that.

Atarileaf

10-02-2014, 08:21 PM

Bad decision and bad timing for such a decision considering the recent developments regarding the emulators and frankly, those of us with problems with the R5 and Hyperkin are not necessarily "trolls". Such a stupid term to throw around when someone disagrees with you.

Trebuken

10-02-2014, 09:05 PM

The price increase seems realistic to me. It's a better piece of hardware than I imagined and I did not hesitate at $139.99, or wouldn't of had I not gotten an open box deal. I hope the have improved the how tough removing cartridges is, and hopefully will have a permanent fix for the time it takes to turn on, and not an 'at your own risk' fix.

Anyways...if the developers are listening...

Is it plausible to have a cartridge adapter for older systems (Atari 7800/2600)? The emulation and hardware requirement ( to an illiterate like myself ), do not appear to be substantial considering what you have already accomplished with the Retron 5. I imagine the financial component may not be there -- but there is that SMS adapter so why not? Game Gear adapter?

Tanooki

10-02-2014, 10:15 PM

I really question the part quality increase as a reason to jack it up that much or at all. I think as I said, they're gearing up for some lawyer hours on payroll. :)

Satoshi_Matrix

10-02-2014, 10:28 PM

those of us with problems with the R5 and Hyperkin are not necessarily "trolls". Such a stupid term to throw around when someone disagrees with you.

sorry, I wasn't referring to people such as you. "Trolls" being those who dislike Hyperkin for the sake of disliking Hyperkin. The people who are automatic naysayers without valid reasons.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-03-2014, 12:06 AM

Okie dokie, part 5 is now up:

This time the coverage is the SNES and Super Famicom. If you have the eternal save set to the SD card, it makes certain games virtually unplayable. Simply switching to use the internal storage solves these issues. This caused me to record this twice, once before I realized this and here the revised final version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLVfz7HCkwA

Gameguy

10-03-2014, 12:11 AM

It's just getting hilarious now.

The RetroN 5 has been the most ambitious project Hyperkin has ever undertaken, both on the software and hardware end.
Does the software end include the stuff they stole?

Hyperkin has committed to keep releasing firmware updates to make the user experience more enjoyable.
They pretty much have to as it was released unfinished, it's only getting usable now.

We have also begun adding higher quality components to improve the RetroN'5s build quality.
"We're tired of having to replace defective units."

The demand for the Retron 5 has exceeded our expectations and as a result, plans have been made to increase production.
As everyone knows the more units being manufactured, the higher the cost is for each unit. You'd think it's the opposite as with buying more in bulk, but you'd be wrong.

This price revision will result in a higher profit margin for every RetroN 5 sold from retailers.
"We're increasing the cost per unit to profit more off of you." It's not often companies are so honest with their customers.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-03-2014, 03:13 AM

Atarileaf

10-03-2014, 05:29 AM

Usually game consoles are released using high quality parts and then as time passes there are price drops accompanied by a new slim version using smaller cases and perhaps cheaper parts. When you go in the opposite direction, you get the feeling they admit to using cheap parts from the beginning which does seem to be legitimized by those reviews I've seen that mention the cheap and flimsy feel of the plastic and controllers.

Raising the price is a dicey move, it was already overpriced at $140 IMO. I'll be interested however to see exactly what the extra $20 supposedly buys you.

Atarileaf

10-03-2014, 05:34 AM

The price increase seems realistic to me. It's a better piece of hardware than I imagined

But you already own one, hence you're not the target for sale of the new version (well maybe you are, who knows) the problem is the new consumer who's never owned one is only going to see the price increase as they don't have any experience with the original version to compare build quality with.

Tanooki

10-03-2014, 10:12 AM

That's my beef, what does $20 more get you? And while i'm on it, where the hell is my replacement for my replacement?! The last one they sent was scratched up and broken hardware internally, this was awhile ago now. They're lucky I'm not one of them types trolling the company to help bring them down or I'd have had a field day with the system and how it was packaged too.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-03-2014, 12:45 PM

Hopefully Hyperkin will post the differences on their facebook.

Gameguy

10-03-2014, 11:55 PM

that was obviously written by hyperkin's head of sales and marketing. The only thing that is "hilarious" is you taking such a pr statement at face value. most of that is marketing jargon. the only thing thing that should be taken away from their entire statement was "Due to.... higher.... build quality.... change the MSRP ...to $159.99". Everything else they said is marketing jargon that should go in one ear and out the other.
They literally said they're increasing the MSRP to increase profit margins, if this was written by a professional involved in public relations they're really bad at it. Most companies release the same type of marketing bs, but the stuff from other companies seem much more professional.

That's my beef, what does $20 more get you? And while i'm on it, where the hell is my replacement for my replacement?! The last one they sent was scratched up and broken hardware internally, this was awhile ago now. They're lucky I'm not one of them types trolling the company to help bring them down or I'd have had a field day with the system and how it was packaged too.
I would think it would already be saving them money just to make these things better quality. You bought one unit, and you needed 2 replacements for it. Paying for one unit the company needed to give you three, that right there is losing them money. Plus at this point I'm just assuming it's 2 replacements, your second replacement hasn't arrived yet and could be defective as well.

People complained about the 360 back when it first came out and had a high failure rate, you and others should be able to react the same way with this console.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-04-2014, 12:24 AM

Whoa, took DP five minutes to load. Hope everything is okay with the site.

Well, here's part 6 - Genesis does.

Also Master System if you use an adapter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do7_HlDn2ic

Tanooki

10-04-2014, 12:26 AM

I never bought the 360, don't trust MS and they've never given any reason to change that. Hyperkin I wasn't feeling so bad about as the supaboy v2 was pretty nice, and no clone ever got me to like it at all before that. I'm technically when it arrives on my 3rd R5 as the 2nd was a beaten and broken internally system out of the box they literally I think tossed it into. I'm not amused as I haven't had one in weeks now as the whole 2.0 beta cycle started after I was out a system.

Hell I hope the new one is either the better build hardware or it's busted too and I get one that way. It had been a wonderful system before it decided it was too good to detect SMB2 of all things.

GarrettCRW

10-04-2014, 01:18 PM

You know, back when this site actually had moderators, an appearance by two of the troll accounts would have invited Shandling and the other troll accounts, the thread would have been locked, Tanooki and Satoshi Matrix would have opened a new thread to bitch like the attention whores they are, and they would have been banned, and all would be right with the world.

Instead, this thread lives on, covered with dried jizz from a months-long circle jerk. No wonder Joe treats the forum like it's dead and buried, because it kinda is.

(On a side note, even if my scenario didn't play out, Satoshi Matrix would have been give the boot ages ago for being a scammer.)

Satoshi_Matrix

10-04-2014, 01:33 PM

Excuse me, but neither of us have done anything but engage in civil discussion. Last I checked, people aren't banned for conveying on topic opinions and discussions except for elitist forums like NintendoAge. Your second jab is an invalid, untrue statement created by a group of trolls on NA and perpetuated by people who don't know what they're talking about. The only people who should be banned are people who deliberately derail threads much like what you're attempting. This will be my only reply to you on this off topic statement.

Tanooki

10-04-2014, 01:42 PM

I didn't do a damn thing wrong in here. I haven't bitched about a damn thing other than the fact that after my system broke they mailed me a beat up used one that was defective and it's not like I've droned on and on about it. I have no idea if you're suffering from PMS or whatever, but back off.

I hate to say Satoshi is onto something, but maybe you would be happier at NintendoAge. I'm not saying more on it, he put it well enough.

LaughingMAN.S9

10-04-2014, 03:58 PM

Came in to see if it had been mentioned yet but apparently I'm the first to know for once.

Apparently hyperkin is being sued by a consortium of programming teams representing a couple emulators and one actual company for hyperkin basically stealing all their emulator code and passing it off as their own without permission or cutting them in on profits.

I don't know to many of the details past that but it's looking like the retron 5 May soon become a collectors item and you better get one while you can if that's your bag

Satoshi_Matrix

10-04-2014, 06:40 PM

yes its been discussed.

Hyperkin isn't being sued. That is a rumor that is being circulated by misinformed people and those who have vendettas against hyperkin to begin with. If that will happen in the future or not nobody can really say. I don't have a crystal ball to know what if anything will come from this.

What do we know is that Hyperkin used uncredited open source emulation as the basis of their early firmware revisions and that has pissed some people off. In response, hyperkin has stated they are upgrading the firmware to remove the offending code. they seem to be doing so voluntarily.

The legality of emulation and open source software is a whole gray that most of us can only speculate on. Is the Retron5 illegally using the open source software because the Retron5 is a commercial product? Only if the emu cores are sold. Are they being sold by Hyperkin? Again, a gray area. Some people say they are, but others, myself included, think that no, Hyperkin is selling the Retron5 hardware, not the emulation cores. That comes free with the hardware. Just like how there are emulators on other products like the Ouya, Open Pandora, Dingoo, Android tablets, and so on. If the Retron5 is illegally using open source emulation, then those other devices must be too. Or else, this is simply the result of people who are Anti-Hyperkin finding a way to attack them and get people who are confused about the issue to possibly join in.

So the long and short of it is Hyperkin isn't in any legal trouble currently. There is a possibility they could be in the future. There is also a possibility that nothing will come of this. It's simply too early to tell. If you look at hyperkin's facebook page, they seem to be publicly moving forward as if none of this exists.

Right now there is nothing definitive to be said on the matter.

Tanooki

10-04-2014, 08:02 PM

I don't recall them having anything to do with redoing their emulators to remove offending code. What I was told was if it came to it, they'd sell the hardware as-is and remove as many emulators as needed to avoid the bullet, then put the emulators as free plugins to download from their website. On that level it would be much like downloading snes9xex for Android tablets and side loading it into the tablet, but in this case you're side loading the emulator into the R5. It dodges the entire issue of selling other peoples code, or violating any possible issue with the 'tivoization' of certain emulators for profit too. If they'd still go after them after that rate, they'd find it fairly hard without going after google play, amazon, and the others which host those free same source emulators to download on their services too.

To say they're not in some form of legal trouble would be a bit laughable. I think there's a problem, but they're also wise not to address it on their website because that can cause even more problems. They put the GPL out there, probably going to see what comes of it if anything and go from there. I think they'll ultimately have to either go the strip the system/download before usage plugin option on it, or pay off anyone who can legally lay claim to something which would be the root original authors of the non-GPL stuff and that won't be easy.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-05-2014, 12:07 AM

Part 7 - GameBoy, Super GameBoy, GameBoy Color

Of all the things the Retron5 does, this is what I was looking forward to most, since there's no way to play Super GameBoy games on an HDTV without using an RGB upscaler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrZID1iwArQ

BTR

10-05-2014, 07:32 AM

With all the recent and not so recent issues (build quality, price increase, availability, not replying to requests even from professional retailers, emulator license....) it's sad that no competitor steps in, or would and at least announce a system that is similar to the Retron 5 (and while the Super Retro Trio is good, it can't reach an updateable emulation machine in terms of compatibility)

Satoshi_Matrix

10-05-2014, 12:25 PM

Retro-Bit isn't currently developing anything like the Retron5. That could change in the future, but I suspect that they will continue to make reverse hardware clones.

Leo_A

10-05-2014, 03:44 PM

Give it time, I would expect that two years from now, there will be another option or two from other companies right along the lines of the Retron 5 (And I would also expect to see a Hyperkin sequel appear in Fall 2016 that is bigger and better, to entice existing Retron 5 owners into upgrading).

This is undoubtedly the future for clone systems.

Tanooki

10-05-2014, 06:56 PM

I'd have to agree with that. I just don't see them using cheap crap buggy system on a chip stuff going forward. LIke or hate Hyperkin, they changed the game entirely because now people who don't give a damn about the technical or the GPL complaining will see a system that plays nearly a dozen systems, nearly perfectly compared to the crud clones, and with all the added a/v perks, save/load states, and so on. I'd imagine going forward the time will go into it much further to use GPL to swipe emulators and change as needed for the hardware, still android based since it's easy enough to work with, and for some stuff that may be non-license possible you take those years to develop one of your own or license another that will be willing with more capable hardware to handle it. SNES9X isn't the only one, there's GSNES which is like $3 to buy, and if he can do it so can others. Also with a better beefier ARM and potential co-GPU the N64 has aged enough that's an option. I just don't see disc stuff happening unless the profitability is so huge you could have addon devices (external CD/DVD ROM drives) that'll be an added buy to a R5 like device to use existing discs.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-06-2014, 12:41 AM

Next, Part 8. GameBoy Advance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q06g0p6g44

Tanooki

10-06-2014, 12:02 PM

If you wanted to show good 3D on the GBA you should have used V-Rally 3 for the GBA, it uses a real polygonal generated land mass on it in a similar was the Saturn does it, sprite based cars, even has a nice in car view, good framerate without chop. Asterix was a good call though, only game of its type for that. It uses that V3D engine V-Rally 3 does. Iridion you're right about, it's shallow, also aiming and avoiding getting hit is a chore, but for what it was then it was a solid game. I'm surprised at a couple of big omissions for the faux and real 3D designed games to show what the GBA really could do from appearances and total stuff going on screen -- DOOM 2, an accurate conversion entirely aside from a couple levels split into 2 due to memory limits, and then the blue roses 3D engine on WIng Commander Prophecy which accurately converts that whole PC game.

I do like you made sure not to put the first party re-hash on display there with the Mario and Zelda re-releases as it's so unnecessary. I think a little more variety overall could have been a good idea but the showing there is not bad at all. You also reminded me I still need to get FZero Climax back (want to sell it?) and I do need to eventually make time to buy and play Golden Sun1 again(and 2, never had it.)

GBA is my favorite overall handheld that Nintendo ever put out. I know I very well due to age put more time into the 8bit GB(and since it's the same GBC) lineup, the GBA just had more solid entries and amazing work done on it in total variety. It is the one gameboy I've held onto and still play so having the R5 do all this is great.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-06-2014, 01:51 PM

I could have covered V-Rally 3, but rather than go from one Velez & Dubail game to another, I chose to simply show Asterix XXL and demoed the 3D car models of that one Need for Speed game I have that kinda sucks but hey it works when many emulators chug when they try to run it.

A little more variety? I thought the games I demoed were extremely varied! I carefully picked out games that would be interesting and unique. The GBA version of Doom and Doom II look like ass on a 50" HDTV. On the 2.7" GBA screen they're fine I guess, but those FPS games on GBA don't scale well, and I showed Ice Nine, which is by far the best FPS game on the system.

Tanooki

10-06-2014, 07:42 PM

The only thing nicest about Ice Nine is the sniper zoom. Perhaps DOOM and in turn also the similarly (same engine) coded Duke Nukem don't look slick blown up, but on the GBA they're the high tier non-polygonal 3D stuff. To be fair one thing I have noticed, and the GBA isn't at fault here, is that they raycasting '3D' engine that DOOM likes use on the GBA also look horrendous on all the other consoles too, and worse the larger the screen gets. SNES DOOM, PS1, Saturn, Jaguar, they're all pretty rotten since they're taking a 320x240 type setup and the larger the screen the blockier it gets. But when they're run on smaller screens or for the original on a 20" or less PC monitor they look great.

By far though with actual models Wing Commander trumped the V3D engine. When you're out of the drawn imagery on the ship (had to cut corners to fit the game) and in space everything but the cockpit is 3D models, even the shield glow when hit and explosions and it looks amazing. It still surprises me how well the fit that PC CD game onto a GBA cart, even retaining some of the speech too from in flight.

Don't get me wrong I think the series is definitely saying enough, more than enough perhaps at what you said 3 hours? But still it's covering things well enough.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-06-2014, 09:33 PM

Ah you just reminded me - I still haven't put together a playlist yet.

I'll go do that now. Tomorrow's video will mark the final installment of my extensive coverage.

The playlist is here:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtsZRFeG-MhIDSzwO_hm-FNRNqjd_qQva

Including the Controller Chronicles HD episode on the Retron5 controller, the total play time across these ten videos is 4 hours, 63 minutes and 73 seconds.

And if that's not enough, there's also the test video footage I'm putting up daily too.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-07-2014, 12:08 AM

Nine days of reviews comes to an end with my final thoughts on the Hyperkin Retron5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2ehUARe-0

I have added a playlist that includes all videos in this series in case you missed an installment.

Thanks for watching everyone. This is the longest review series for a single product I've ever done, due to the sheer amount that needed to be covered.

BTR

10-07-2014, 03:40 AM

Just another comment on future of systems like the Retron5:

Disc based systems might not only be held back by disc drives, but also by the lack of useable bios files.

There is currently no emulator that can run Sega CD games and PC-Engine CD games without bios files. All bios files are copyrighted code. Even bios files found on modchips are reverse engineered Sega code.

SSF runs saturn games without bios, but is closed source. Also, nothing new of course, but Saturn emulation is very demanding.

ARBEX and another PS1 emulator work (I can't recall now) run without bios, but Arbex is Windows only

Satoshi_Matrix

10-07-2014, 09:31 AM

Right. N64 will happen, but I don't see Hyperkin ever adding disc games. Unless they only support disc images rather than discs themselves and tell users to provide their own BIOS files. But even that's unlikely.

drunk3nj3sus

10-07-2014, 11:23 PM

I'd say adding N64 support is a ways off yet. N64 emulation on PC isn't even perfected so I doubt their's an open source android emulator capable of running most games properly.

A disc based unit may take awhile too disc drives are cheap but it'd require an open source emulator with a high compatibility rate and a reverse engineered bios which I haven't seen.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-08-2014, 01:22 AM

Right. Plus, N64 clones won't be legal for another two years, until when the patients expire.

Leo_A

10-08-2014, 01:57 AM

Right. Plus, N64 clones won't be legal for another two years, until when the patients expire.

There are more recent Nintendo handhelds already emulated and included here, so I don't think that we could definitively state that N64 emulation is just awaiting the passage of a few more months.

Plus, don't forget the potential solution that I believe that I've seen you state about how they could work around rights issues by having the user side load emulation programs themselves rather than coming pre-installed.

And with all the delays here, I doubt that we'd see a Retron 5 successor until the Fall of 2016 anyways. That would make all of this a moot point, beyond the potential that there isn't a good enough emulator to utilize or the possibility that they just don't want to go that direction in the first place.

JSoup

10-08-2014, 06:15 AM

Wasn't there some kind of SD card capable N64 cartridge in development at one point or another?

Tanooki

10-08-2014, 10:01 AM

You talking about the everdrive 64? http://krikzz.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54

About the side loading. I wonder, if it were thrown on a 'free' 1GB SD card in the box advertised as a 'free set of emulators' to side load into your R5 to do it all if that would skirt around the issue enough. I'm just thinking of the general peon factor of trying to coax someone online out of the box to set the system up instead of calling, facebooking, or emailing bitching they bought a useless brick that plays nothing.

Also kind of pissed at them, called yesterday to ask where my system replacement was and was told I'd get an email back about the tracking, which I didn't get. I did ask about the price increase, supposedly they redid something internally and made the systems more sturdy than the launch systems so they last longer and have less wear issues.

drunk3nj3sus

10-09-2014, 02:09 AM

JSoup

10-09-2014, 02:26 AM

You talking about the everdrive 64? http://krikzz.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54

Yep, that looks like it.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-09-2014, 11:51 AM

I think the "free" sd card wouldn't make it any more legit since it's still coming with a commercial product.

The best solution would be throwing a cheap wifi adapter in the thing and having it automatically download the latest firmware and the emulators once you set it up. Going through the hassle of having to transfer numerous firmware updates seems like a giant pain. Especially since a lot of people buying this may not be all that tech savy most probably just wanna hook it up and start playing all their old games.

Dunno why FCEUX NES emulator needed so many updates to improve compatibility unless the android versions crippled, It's played everything I threw at it including famicom translations that used real uncommon mappers.

wait wait wait...
Downloading a 4MB file from a website, putting it on an SD card and then putting the card in the system and it automatically launching on its own constitutes "a giant pain"?

and you're talking about adding wifi and internet capabilities to the thing to make it easier for those who aren't "tech savy"?

lol.

just lol.

as to your final point, the NES/Famicom core itself hasn't basically had anything done to it. What has been refined is the cartridge recognition subroutines. Remember, the Retron5 isn't pure emulation. It has the critical difference of interacting with the cartridges first, which makes things more complicated.

drunk3nj3sus

10-09-2014, 01:37 PM

wait wait wait...
Downloading a 4MB file from a website, putting it on an SD card and then putting the card in the system and it automatically launching on its own constitutes "a giant pain"?

and you're talking about adding wifi and internet capabilities to the thing to make it easier for those who aren't "tech savy"?

lol.

just lol.

Doing so once? not really but judging by Tanooki's posts when it was first released the firmwares been updated a dozen or so times to get it working how it was originally suppose to, logging on to wifi's a lot simpler than that.

Something that works out of the box (even if it requires wifi access) makes a lot more sense than something that requires internet, a sd card, & card reader to work as advertised.

Tanooki

10-09-2014, 03:03 PM

Theoretically you're both right. Getting onto wifi, if you don't have something that interferes with it is idiot simple and suited for the lazy types as it's fast, but it can be a colossal nightmare if something fouls up. The download thing isn't hard, maybe, but it's far more work involved, especially with that capcha bullshit they force. Also as hard as it may be to believe, many people do not have SD card slots on their computers, so some people are just SOL when it comes to updates since you can't just cable it straight into a PC with the USB jack it has which also would be annoying too but at least with the SD card it's stable and no network configuring.

10-09-2014, 05:53 PM

Leo_A

10-09-2014, 07:00 PM

They make USB SD card readers. I bought one years ago before they were common on computers, in order to write data to a MMC card for my Cuttle Cart II. Cost me perhaps $5 and was plug and play.

Tanooki

10-09-2014, 09:09 PM

I can not remember the last time I had one that worked, but UPS tracking I finally got it from them and it should be here by end of day tomorrow. It will be nice to have the R5 again, hopefully this one will not be beat and works as it should. I'm not sure what I'll throw at it, but at least it'll be here.

Satoshi_Matrix

10-10-2014, 02:47 AM

Mario 2 that Retron5 Tanooki! You know you want to!

Doing so once? not really but judging by Tanooki's posts when it was first released the firmwares been updated a dozen or so times to get it working how it was originally suppose to, logging on to wifi's a lot simpler than that.

Something that works out of the box (even if it requires wifi access) makes a lot more sense than something that requires internet, a sd card, & card reader to work as advertised.

It's overblown. The firmware request dat file you need to upload to the server to download the file can simply be stored on your computer each time theres an update. And you know, just because there's a new update doesn't mean you would _have_ to update. I'm still using 2.0 beta 6. Firmware updates fix very minor things and often things that you won't even have; for example, the biggest thing one of the firmware updates in September added was the ability to play Dragon Buster on Famicom. If you don't have that game or don't care about that game, then the firmware update can be ignored and you can wait until the next one.

Wifi would have been simpler, but Hyperkin would have royally fucked that up if they tried it out of the blue and also it would have increased the price of the Retron5 even further. I'm glad they didn't do that. Really glad in fact.

Don't forget the larger mandatory 200+mb system update provided as a torrent.

That was a one time thing. System updates are very uncommon on devices like this. But then again, the 240MB update file isn't exactly the same as I dunno, a 14GB patch needed to play a game on PS4.

CRTGAMER

10-10-2014, 10:31 AM

I think the "free" sd card wouldn't make it any more legit since it's still coming with a commercial product.

The best solution would be throwing a cheap wifi adapter in the thing and having it automatically download the latest firmware and the emulators once you set it up. Going through the hassle of having to transfer numerous firmware updates seems like a giant pain. Especially since a lot of people buying this may not be all that tech savy most probably just wanna hook it up and start playing all their old games..
NO, I prefer controlling any flash to chip updates. A very smart move by Hyperkin to have the Firmware Updates go thru the PC and then dumped to SD Card. So simple to pop the SD Card into the Retron 5 to update.

1. This ensures the complete Firmware is downloaded BEFORE updating the console flash chip. Less chance of bricking the Retron 5 due to an online connection lost. Any PS3 firmware YLOD horror stories out there?

2. As mentioned, all the Firmware Updates are backed up th the PC and can also even be dumped to a CDR. This is handy in case a second Retron 5 console is bought later on. Especially important if an update is needed many years later and the online support goes away.

Tanooki

10-10-2014, 10:40 AM

For the pure spite of it, that most likely will be #1 to go in there followed by Gargoyle's Quest II which was also going downhill. To think this crap started like a month ago because they bungled the replacement. I really can't remember what day I last had the thing but I do know I never got to try out the beta 2.0 cycle.

The best date I can find is an old email telling me to factory reset it on Aug 28. I sent it on Sept 4, because they weren't smart enough to open an email and open a jpeg image of my receipt to prove the warranty info I registered on their site back in June so I had to resend it.

It basically has been unplugged since the 28th ....so 43 days without one in the home, plugged in, and functioning correctly. That's just sloppy.

As to the firmware issue, I'm less a fan of it with the SD card, but I am also at the same time more of one too which I'm sure makes no sense. :) I don't like the process, but as noted you could just keep that one file the first time on your PC and never do that step again other than the stupid capcha stuff. WifI opens the door to bad packets and dropped connections which could brick far more systems. The SD card either works or it doesn't. It's broken or not in the slot all the way, or it works and is slotted right. So sure I wish I could beam the data, but the SD card is more secure and safe.

I kept the bookmark for 2.0b6, if it's not already on there I'm placing it there because 2.0 is useless to me with the fast loading off as I could give a shit about Sega Genesis games(have none) and the fact they don't like quick boot so everyone gets punished.

Tanooki

10-10-2014, 10:44 PM

Update: The new system they sent me is a defective piece of shit too. Not only does it still not detect my SMB2 cart, it's also wrongly assembled as there's a rainbow of wires that belongs UNDER the board over it instead and overlapping the famicom cartridge port. Now I'm up to 3 so supposedly now I've earned a NEW system, not a refurb and I'm not sure which as I got conflicted emails but either they mail it first and I return with a sticker in that box or I use the weird email 3 hours later and print another freebie sticker and go back to UPS again. I have no idea what's up with that and it's Friday so they won't see that mail until Monday.

I'm so over this crap.

FYI -- I pulled my toploader out of the sterlite drawer it is just barely fitting within, fired up the cart (SMB2) perfectly without needing a cleaning and movement of it at all. Pure bullshit and I'm pissed off now.

Cryog

10-10-2014, 11:20 PM

I already stop using the orignal cartridges and use the Retron Labo rom hack. A pin came out of the SNES cartridge slot and the mini usb control conector is broken.

Gameguy

10-11-2014, 12:17 AM

Update: The new system they sent me is a defective piece of shit too. Not only does it still not detect my SMB2 cart, it's also wrongly assembled as there's a rainbow of wires that belongs UNDER the board over it instead and overlapping the famicom cartridge port. Now I'm up to 3 so supposedly now I've earned a NEW system, not a refurb and I'm not sure which as I got conflicted emails but either they mail it first and I return with a sticker in that box or I use the weird email 3 hours later and print another freebie sticker and go back to UPS again. I have no idea what's up with that and it's Friday so they won't see that mail until Monday.

I'm so over this crap.
So you're not liking the company anymore? Just wondering if I'm interpreting that correctly. Maybe you want to hold onto your Sharp TV rather than sell it?

Found some quotes from September 20th. Just reliving the past for nostalgia.

I thought you had to send yours back for a replacement because it crapped out on you?

Gameguy It's replaced, UPS decided to be douchy and hold it, I'll have it Monday. My general understanding is that the current systems being shipped versus the early stuff at launch has far better quality control checks being done so problematic systems don't get out there.