Sony developing PSone and PS2 emulation on the PS4

[buzz_n64]

Backward incompatibility.
doc-brown
by Peter Brown on February 1, 2014

"There’s no doubt that Sony spoiled us when it made the PlayStation 2 backwards compatible with original PlayStation games. The convenience of being able to immediately tap into a giant library at launch was a hit with a lot of people. Though there was some legacy support to be found in every console over the course of the last generation, the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Wii all had issues at some point; Sony and Nintendo eventually stopped including the required hardware in their consoles, and Microsoft relied on spotty software emulation that was abandoned by its developers well before it was “complete.” Still, backwards compatibility felt like the rule, rather than the exception, for a while.

Consequently, people were understandably surprised and disappointed that neither the PlayStation 4 nor Xbox One would ship with legacy support in tow, probably due to a lack of understanding that a shift in hardware architecture, which in turn affects how game code is interpreted by the console, is the main culprit. There are a lot of advantages to switching to a familiar, PC-like x86 CPU, especially for developers, but simple implementation of backwards compatibility is not one of them. This isn’t a total roadblock, however, as evidenced by Digital Foundry’s recent report that unveiled the existence of a PlayStation and PlayStation 2 software emulator currently in development for PlayStation 4..."

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-sony-should-handle-ps1-and-ps2-emulation-on-playstation-4/1100-6417455/




I think this will help the PS4 a lot, and with this news I might get a PS4 instead of a Wii U.

[JSoup]

Another article mentioned that running PS3 games from disk might be something they would be willing to work on, but didn't go into specifics. Probably wishful thinking.

Don't know that this means a whole lot for me. I have a functioning PS1, 2 and 3. Two of those things can run PS1 games and the other can deal with my sparse PS2 collection. I'm more interested in the PS3 games I've missed and going forward.

[Clownzilla]

I understand completely why Sony decided not to make a PS2 software emulator for the PS3. What irritates me is the fact that they said that it would be difficult to pull off yet they didn't seem to have a hard time releasing PS2 games for download on the PSN service. It's Sony treating it's customers like they are complete idiots that irritates me to no end. Sony just need to come out and say that "we have no plans on releasing an emulator" without any BS about not being able to because of technical limitations.

[Bojay1997]

I think this will help the PS4 a lot, and with this news I might get a PS4 instead of a Wii U.

The PS4 doesn't really need any help. It still sells out the moment units arrive at retail and frankly, there is nothing really out that is all that compelling right now. I can only imagine sales once the exclusive games start hitting in the next few months. Frankly, this is one of those things that sounds good and is a good PR point, but most gamers will never end up using.

[buzz_n64]

The PS4 doesn't really need any help. It still sells out the moment units arrive at retail and frankly, there is nothing really out that is all that compelling right now. I can only imagine sales once the exclusive games start hitting in the next few months. Frankly, this is one of those things that sounds good and is a good PR point, but most gamers will never end up using.

I agree that most people won't even use that feature, but the fact that it simply has that extra feature shows how Sony is giving players more options while Microsoft has a lot of limitations and originally wanted to limit players even more so, but the E3 backlash was too significant. I see it as a symbolic gesture for Sony's fan base.

[kupomogli]

Hopefully the emulators for the PS4 is a firmware update that allows games to be played on disc and not just code embedded into digital titles allowing the games to play on the PS4 by purchasing them through PSN. I own the games so I'd rather not be required to purchase them digitally.

[Nionel]

Another article mentioned that running PS3 games from disk might be something they would be willing to work on, but didn't go into specifics. Probably wishful thinking.

Don't know that this means a whole lot for me. I have a functioning PS1, 2 and 3. Two of those things can run PS1 games and the other can deal with my sparse PS2 collection. I'm more interested in the PS3 games I've missed and going forward.

I can't see why playing PS3 games from their discs would be that big a deal, especially since anyone who bought a game using the PS3 to PS4 digital upgrade has to have their PS3 disc in the PS4's drive to play the PS4 copy of the game, so clearly, the PS4 has some way of recognizing those disc.

I've also gotta be "that guy" and remind you that the PS2 and PS3 can both play PS1 discs, so technically all three of your machines can play your PS1 discs, Jelly.

Back on topic, I would be all for PS1/2/3 emulators for the PS4, if I can play my discs I already own and don't have to rebuy games I already own, especially when I already have working versions of all the previous hardware. I'd prefer it be free, but I'd be willing to pay a little bit for it, but again, only if I can play the original game discs in the PS4.

[JSoup]

I've also gotta be "that guy" and remind you that the PS2 and PS3 can both play PS1 discs, so technically all three of your machines can play your PS1 discs, Jelly.

Right, right. For some reason I keep forgetting the PS2 can run PS1 games.

[Leo_A]

I think this will help the PS4 a lot, and with this news I might get a PS4 instead of a Wii U.

Sadly, not only do we have to hope that this rumor is accurate, but then we have to hope that it wouldn't be limited to paid downloads which it very well could be.

Too early to get excited about but it would indeed ramp my interest up in the PS4 significantly. It's already my preferred first choice over the Xbox One by a mile (Actually, 2nd choice since I'm already a Wii U owner), but without much in the way of compelling software at this time or in the foreseeable future, I'm in no hurry.

But if they provided a good solution to enjoy my PS2 library on my HDTV (Even the full hardware BC version of the PS3 has annoying issues for PS2 playback not to mention is widely regarded for being unreliable today) with the best picture quality that's reasonably possible, that will go a long ways towards attracting me at an earlier time.

Wii U's ability to upscale (And deinterlace a game like Resident Evil) Wii software was one of the major attractions for me with the Wii U since it does a better job than my HDTV's scaling chip and 4:3 and 16:9 software are automatically handled accordingly rather than requiring intervention on my part via changing my tv's display setting.

[BlastProcessing402]

But if they provided a good solution to enjoy my PS2 library on my HDTV

Actually, with component cables PS2 itself doesn't look too bad on an HDTV. And if your TV supports 240p over component, it's actually better looking on PSX games than PS3 is (and I assume PS4 will be closer to PS3 in that regard).

[Leo_A]

That's completely dependent on your HDTV's scaling chip.

Many will do a less than desirable job with 480p content. For instance, I notice a significant boost with Wii games upscaled by my Wii U compared to directly from my Wii via component to the same HDTV. And you can forget it in many cases with 480i games if your HDTV's scaling chip has to deinterlace as well due to the hit in PQ. And since 480i was the norm on the PS2 for resolution unlike the Xbox or 1st party GameCube games that tended to be 480p, it makes it even less suitable for a HDTV.

For me that era of consoles and the Wii are all connected via component to a SD CRT (a Sony Trinitron to be exact). Far superior picture quality than letting my HDTV's scaling chip at them. Plus, I've heard rumors that this emulator will render games in HD. If true, there's no way even with the best of scalers that the real deal could match that for picture quality.

[jonebone]

Didn't you guys see about the Playstation streaming network? They announced it a couple of months back... I'm assuming it will be a Netflix style subscription service. Maybe pay $10 a month and be able to stream from a large library of PS1, PS2 and maybe even some PS3 titles.

There aren't many official details regarding the project, just that it is coming.

[Leo_A]

There's a lot of information about Playstation Now. This rumor is something different.

[Bojay1997]

There's a lot of information about Playstation Now. This rumor is something different.

Correct. Playstation Now does not rely on emulation as far as I know. It's a streaming service that just uses the display capabilities of the PS4 and the controller interface. The actual game would run on a remote server like Gaikai or OnLive does.

[Greg2600]

Can't see how this will be anything but paid downloads of PS1, PS2 games reformatted to run as PS4 games/apps.

[Leo_A]

That's what I'm expecting as well if anything happens.

The entire story sounds odd. Sony's not that generous for starters where our disc collections for their earlier systems are concerned (Plus, if PS4 is suddenly backwards compatible, isn't that going to just magnify the lack of PS3 compatibility and draw attention to that fact?). And PS1/PS2 downloads off PSN didn't seem to be exactly thriving as it is.

I find it hard to believe that they're investing in emulation solutions for these two platforms on the PS4.

[buzz_n64]

That's what I'm expecting as well if anything happens.

The entire story sounds odd. Sony's not that generous for starters where our disc collections for their earlier systems are concerned (Plus, if PS4 is suddenly backwards compatible, isn't that going to just magnify the lack of PS3 compatibility and draw attention to that fact?). And PS1/PS2 downloads off PSN didn't seem to be exactly thriving as it is.

I find it hard to believe that they're investing in emulation solutions for these two platforms on the PS4.

Maybe, but probably not, but maybe they'll allow players with the game discs to play their multi-player games online vs people who buy the downloadable versions. There would be money in that. Yes it would take a lot of work, but there would be a pay off in that, although highly unlikely they're going to do that.

[Leo_A]

I doubt these will involve online online multiplayer. But even if they did, why would they not allow you to play a disc in single player but would just for multiplayer? That's what it sounds like you're saying and I think we can safely rule that out. There's either freedom with discs or there isn't.

But frankly, it's hard to imagine PS1 downloads for the PSP/Vita/PS3 and PS2 downloads for the PS3 having done well enough to justify further development. Both programs seem to have always been step children with Sony never working very hard to make either line as successful as they could be.

I'm skeptical with their half hearted last generation attempts succeeded to such a degree that they've green lit PS4 emulators for these titles. If they're doing this, even if our disc are compatible, you can rest assured it's primarily with selling digital downloads in mind since Sony's potential additional revenue from making the PS4 compatible with PS/PS2 discs is minuscule and a non factor.

[buzz_n64]

I doubt these will involve online online multiplayer. But even if they did, why would they not allow you to play a disc in single player but would just for multiplayer? That's what it sounds like you're saying and I think we can safely rule that out. There's either freedom with discs or there isn't.

No, I'm saying that you can still play all your disc games, but maybe have that additional feature as incentive for people who don't own the disc games to purchase them digitally and play against or with their friends. I know this is highly unlikely, but one can still hope for that.

[Greg2600]

There's zero incentive for Sony to do anything with PS1 or PS2 games but to sell them as downloads in full. The "classic gamer" is literally one of the last demographics that any system manufacturer or game publisher would ever cater to. They don't buy new stuff! ;)

The only value backwards compatibility has for the system producers is in the first couple years, when they can draw the average gamer who still plays a lot of those games. Unless they offer tons of trade-in value for previous games, like MS just did for PS3's.

[WCP]

Here's my theory...


You have Sony coming out with "Playstation Now" in the Summer. PS1,PS2 and PS3 games. Why would they have anything conflict with that during it's launch ? They want people paying a monthly subscription. However, does Sony really want to set up a farm of PS1's and PS2's running games via streaming, or how about you just download the game and play it natively in an emulator if it's small enough. For example, when you "stream" Jet Moto, you temporarily stream it, but in the background the full game is downloading, and it will run off the native emulator during any further plays, once it's installed.


Why would Sony waste the bandwidth of streaming games less than 1 gig large ? Why not a temporary stream, and then once the game is fully installed, it switches to the emulator (without the vast majority of consumers having any idea that it isn't just really, really accurate streaming ?

[Greg2600]

I really would be shocked if Sony does streaming games.

[j_factor]

As far as PS1 specifically goes... it's already fully emulated on PS3, PSP, Vita... not to mention Android and everything else. A 12 year old PC can run an emulator. If they wanted a PS1 emulator, they could've done that already, it's not like it's difficult.

[WCP]

I really would be shocked if Sony does streaming games.

Supposedly they are rolling it out this Summer. I guess it's one of those believe it when you see it things. I just know if there is any lag at all, I'm not messing with it. Even a tiny bit of lag or hiccups would really bother me.

[Leo_A]

I really would be shocked if Sony does streaming games.

They didn't spend nearly $400 million to buy Gaikai for nothing. The public beta already is underway with a full launched planned for the middle portion of the year for Sony's new streaming game service for the PS4 which will initially feature PS3 content.

I'm surprised that you haven't heard about Playstation Now which is what this is branded as.

[WCP]

As far as PS1 specifically goes... it's already fully emulated on PS3, PSP, Vita... not to mention Android and everything else. A 12 year old PC can run an emulator. If they wanted a PS1 emulator, they could've done that already, it's not like it's difficult.


Yeah, emulating the PS1 and PS2 would be unbelievably easy for the PS4. In fact, Sony could do some extra stuff to help make the games look even better, like the various PC emulators that can upscale PS1 and PS2 games and make them almost look high-def. Emulating the PS3 is another story. The Cell processor and Nvidia gpu used would be very difficult to emulate. So, when you are playing PS3 games, they will likely be streamed. I'm thinking larger PS2 games will also be streamed. But all PS1 games, streaming them wouldn't really make that much sense if you really think about it. Instead, I think the games will somehow download to the device and run off an emulator. Only problem with that, is that Sony is going to have to say that Playstation Now when used on PS4 takes up say 10 gigs of the hard drive space. That space would be reserved, so that it could download games and store them there, and run them off the emulator. When that space gets filled, it would auto delete the least played game, and if the person chose to play that game again, it would be streamed (temporarily), until something else is erased and the game is redownloaded. They could make it work in such a way that most people wouldn't notice anything at all. It's just you have to have 10 gigs of your hard drive reserved for it.

On Vita, they would probably limit it to like 2 gigs or something, cause people's available memory is so much smaller. You'd probably have to stream the majority of the PS2 library, when using the Vita, because most PS2 games would go over the size limit.

[Leo_A]

In fact, Sony could do some extra stuff to help make the games look even better, like the various PC emulators that can upscale PS1 and PS2 games and make them almost look high-def.

They don't upscale in HD, they actually render the games directly into HD. That's why the Dolphin emulator looks so amazing for Wii games in still screenshots compared to how they look upscaled by the Wii U.

It's anything but easy though. But at least they have ample resources now unlike what the situation seemed to be for PS2 emulation on the PS3 which they only finally conquered late in the generation (And I suspect has to be specifically tailored for each game not unlike Microsoft's BC solution on the 360).