View Full Version : How are WWII games marketed in Germany??
Masco73
08-15-2003, 09:53 PM
I was just thinking of this while playing Medal of Honor. How do they or do they even sell these WWII based games in Germany?? Its not like the enemies are red or blue, they are German soldiers based on historical events. The object is to kill them to complete your mission.
I know I would not play/buy a game like that if It was American soldiers.
Any gamers from Germany or forum members out there that can shed some light on this subject for me??
hezeuschrist
08-15-2003, 10:04 PM
I hear they renamed Medal of Honor: Frontline to "Painful Historical Reminder: Kill Your Grandfather" for the german release.
I'm sure they just release them as what they are. It's not like the people in germany now agree with what Hitler did, just because he was ruling Germany at the time doesn't mean the Germans now think he was correct.
norkusa
08-15-2003, 10:25 PM
Good question. I always wondered how they marketed 1942 & 1943 for the Famicom in Japan. Is their version different than ours? It would seem kind strange if they had to play the game as the US and be forced to destroy Japanese planes and ships.
atomicthumbs
08-16-2003, 12:41 AM
Instead of killing the Nazi scourge, you are fighting the BADDS.
Buyatari
08-16-2003, 02:03 AM
Better yet : How do they plan to market the new Medal of Honor in Japan?
Adam
Mayhem
08-16-2003, 07:46 AM
The general answer is that usually they are not released there at all. If a simple game such as River Raid is actually banned ( :o ) then you can't think too much of the censors! Hence many German friends have to sneakily import any of these types of games :roll:
Daltone
08-16-2003, 07:59 AM
I know I would not play/buy a game like that if It was American soldiers.
Seriously?! You'll quite happily slaughter Axis troops, but when it comes to those..closer to home you wouldn't go near them? Equal Opportunities man, everyone should have the chance to die (preferably in a gory, screamy way), in video games.
Besides which...it's not real.
Marc Oberhäuser
08-16-2003, 08:31 AM
Well, actually it's not a big problem to market/sell WW2-theme games here in Germany. In this kind of games they just have to remove the 3rd Reich symobls like the Hakenkreuz since it is prohibited to show them in games.
The main problem in Germany is if you use excessive violance. Usually it's enough to remove the blood in a game but there are also situations where games have to go through major changes. For example in Soldier of Fortune 2 all enemies are changed to robots. Even more changes had to make for the new C&C game since the original version of it got banned because it was too much like real life: EA had to rename all units, change the videos and the scenario, prevent players from killing civillians and stuff like that.
It's some kind of a two-edged thing. Sometimes I agree to this (Postal 2 for ex got banned before release), sometimes it's hard to understand (f.e. Unreal Tournament).
That's the way it is here in Germany...
Marc.
Oberfuhrer Hamm
08-16-2003, 10:07 AM
What is the Hakenkreuz? The iron cross?
Buyatari
08-16-2003, 01:30 PM
Seriously?! You'll quite happily slaughter Axis troops, but when it comes to those..closer to home you wouldn't go near them? Equal Opportunities man, everyone should have the chance to die (preferably in a gory, screamy way), in video games.
Besides which...it's not real.
I can see his point. There has to be something that bothers you. There has to be a game you would just consider "wrong" Would you play a game where the goal was to break into houses and rape as many people as possible? Or how about a game where you use different methods of torture to get the infomation out of your hostages. Or how about game where you play a terrorist and try to bomb America with highjacked planes. It is JUST a game.
No those don't appeal to me and for many others neither does the killing of Americans by Nazis.
The patriotic feelings in this country are HIGH. Many families in this country have lost someone due to a foreign war and almost all have family members who were part of one. My grandfather fought in WWII and was at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked. I listened to all his war stories growing up as he cried retelling them and would just get sick in my stomach to play a game as detailed as Medal of Honor "on the other side"
I think something like Axis and Aliies or Give me Liberty would be ok. A tactical board game where no one really dies. But to actually gun down the Americans on the beach at D-day or fly a bomber into Pearl Harbor with the realizm of todays games would just not go over in this country.
We all know that the laws of this country which these men died for actually ensure that such games COULD be made but they wouldn't go over very well.
It is a good sign too. Despite games like GTA3, this country hasn't become so completely desensitized to violence that we will slaughter our own heroes on the TV screen.
Adam
kainemaxwell
08-16-2003, 01:34 PM
If a simple game such as River Raid is actually banned ( :o )
You serious about River Raid actually being banned?!
Oberfuhrer Hamm
08-16-2003, 02:17 PM
No those don't appeal to me and for many others neither does the killing of Americans by Nazis.
The patriotic feelings in this country are HIGH. Many families in this country have lost someone due to a foreign war and almost all have family members who were part of one. My grandfather fought in WWII and was at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked. I listened to all his war stories growing up as he cried retelling them and would just get sick in my stomach to play a game as detailed as Medal of Honor "on the other side"
I think something like Axis and Aliies or Give me Liberty would be ok. A tactical board game where no one really dies. But to actually gun down the Americans on the beach at D-day or fly a bomber into Pearl Harbor with the realizm of todays games would just not go over in this country.
But there are games like this. Take Return to Castle Wolfenstein or Day of Defeat (Half Life mod). In those two games (The multiplayer version of RTCW and DoD is multi only), there are always 2 teams: The Axis and the Allies. Although I am sure everyone would want to be on the Allied team, someone has to be on the Axis side on those games.
Anonymous
08-16-2003, 03:01 PM
Instead of killing the Nazi scourge, you are fighting the BADDS.
LOL THIS BASE WILL EXPLOD IN 60 SECONDS. I TAKE THIS BAZOOKA.
XpOsUrE
08-16-2003, 03:05 PM
Good question. I always wondered how they marketed 1942 & 1943 for the Famicom in Japan. Is their version different than ours? It would seem kind strange if they had to play the game as the US and be forced to destroy Japanese planes and ships.
You know I do recall seeing a interview with someone from capcom in egm I beleave if I recall correctly where the guy said that he got heat from the japanese part of capcom due to that game.
Captain Wrong
08-16-2003, 03:15 PM
Do they still change all the humans to robots ala Probotector/Contra?
As I recall, that was done to skirt some sort of violence in games law or something.
Masco73
08-16-2003, 03:40 PM
I know I would not play/buy a game like that if It was American soldiers.
Seriously?! You'll quite happily slaughter Axis troops, but when it comes to those..closer to home you wouldn't go near them? Equal Opportunities man, everyone should have the chance to die (preferably in a gory, screamy way), in video games.
Besides which...it's not real.
So, You would have no problem taking the German side in a game like Medal of Honor and going up against British Troops??
Daltone
08-16-2003, 05:58 PM
I know I would not play/buy a game like that if It was American soldiers.
Seriously?! You'll quite happily slaughter Axis troops, but when it comes to those..closer to home you wouldn't go near them? Equal Opportunities man, everyone should have the chance to die (preferably in a gory, screamy way), in video games.
Besides which...it's not real.
So, You would have no problem taking the German side in a game like Medal of Honor and going up against British Troops??
Nope, none what so ever. They're just cannon fodder in different uniforms. In fact, if they came with awful accents I'd probably take great pleasure in slaughtering vast swathes of the semi-mindless buggers, but hey, that's just me.
Mayhem
08-16-2003, 06:43 PM
If a simple game such as River Raid is actually banned ( :o )
You serious about River Raid actually being banned?!
Yep... a German friend of mine imported the Activision Anthology for PS2 and it got confiscated apparently because RR is on the disc...
Saturn Sensei
08-17-2003, 07:03 AM
It is a good sign too. Despite games like GTA3, this country hasn't become so completely desensitized to violence that we will slaughter our own heroes on the TV screen.
Adam
So killing Miami cops, or indeed innocent Miami denizens in Vice City is not killing "our heroes"?
"Playing a game as detailed as Medal of Honor"
Have you played MoH?? MoH should be boycotted for the way it sanitizes WWII. No blood, no gore, no friendly fire. Can you imagine Saving Private Ryan with a PG rating?? There would be an outrage.
maxlords
08-17-2003, 08:39 AM
That's so wild. However, I'd play a game as the Axis killing US troops or hunting down and assasinating US presidents/etc. in a heartbeat if it was a good game. And I'd play one as terrorists bombing the US and killing citizens too. I don't care, as it's JUST A GAME! If you take that sort of thing to heart, you have a problem, but if it's in a game, so what? You're a consenting adult, and that's your choice....that's the whole point of the freedoms we enjoy in the US. If you're patriotic and that offends you, don't play. I totally agree with Daltone on this one.
I've played the Axis and the Allies in RTCW as well, and had no problems. It's the same as playing Reds vs. Blues in Unreal Tournament. If someone wanted to make a game where you played a serial killer, hunted down victims, and tortured them in great detail before killing them while avoiding a police manhunt, I'd buy that too. I'd also buy and play a game where you played the Romans, crucifiying Jesus and as many christians as you could find, and slaughtering them in any number of ways. Strangely, I wouldn't buy a game where you went around raping people as BuyAtari mentioned though.
I appreciate what all those soldiers did for us...I really do, but honestly, I think that there's nothing wrong with a game like that if you wanted to play it. Oh...and I have a Japanese Famicom copy of 1942 :)
Ruudos
08-17-2003, 02:18 PM
What is the Hakenkreuz? The iron cross?
Hakenkreuz = swastika
If I'm right Kilelr Instinct, Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are also games that weren't released in Germany.
E Nice
08-17-2003, 04:44 PM
I don't care, as it's JUST A GAME! If you take that sort of thing to heart, you have a problem, but if it's in a game, so what?
Strangely, I wouldn't buy a game where you went around raping people as BuyAtari mentioned though.
Why not?
Thomas Jentzsch
08-17-2003, 05:29 PM
Yep... a German friend of mine imported the Activision Anthology for PS2 and it got confiscated apparently because RR is on the disc...
Are you sure? It would have been very easy for Activision to remove RR from the index. The standards have changed quite a bit now.
The game was (is?) only still banned, because nobody (Activision) bothered at all.
Marc Oberhäuser
08-17-2003, 06:16 PM
If you follow the link down below you will find a list of games which got banned up to end of 1997. I haven't found a newer list on the web since the official list is ditributed as news flyer by the gouvernment and it is not allowed to put them on the net due to copyright issues... It's in German but it is self explaining:)
Here is the link:
http://www.cybercity.de/BpjS/
Best,
Marc.
SoulBlazer
08-17-2003, 07:41 PM
WHOA! :o :o :o
Look at the games on that list! I knew Germany banned some games, but WTF is that????
So if a game is banned, that means the game can't be sold in Germany but you could have someone send you the game from out of the country, right?
Area 51.....Battlezone.....Cannon Fodder.....Commando.....Die Hard Triliogy......Doom......Duke Nukem.....Gun.Smoke.....Ikari Warriors.....Killer Instinct.....Mortal Kombat.....Panzer General....Quake......Raid on Bungeling Bay.....River Raid....Robocop.....Super Double Dragon.....Wings......
I have only one comment: Thank God I don't live in Germany! O_O
mauigamer
08-17-2003, 08:05 PM
I know they changed Turok quite a bit when it was released over there.
Thomas Jentzsch
08-18-2003, 03:48 AM
I have only one comment: Thank God I don't live in Germany! O_O
I don't feel like I missed something when I was young. :)
If you look at the list, the games where considered to be too violent then, glamorizing violence or the 3rd Reich or pornographic.
Though I agree that many of the older titles on the list are absurd by today standards, that doesn't mean the concept is all wrong.
SoulBlazer
08-18-2003, 11:07 AM
It's a old argument, but I have yet to see any hard and fast proof that violence in games de-senstises kids and makes them think that violence is okay in the real world.
Ask how many people here played games on that 'banned' list like River Raid, Panzer General, and Commando how many crimes they have done and people they have killed. I know I played and loved all those games when I was a kid, and many more on that list. I turned out just fine.
Of course, I admit, the other half of it is that I find censorship in ANY form to be repugent and wrong. The government should'nt tell us what we can see and what we can't play and why we can't read something. They should'nt HAVE to. Each adult should be responsible enough to make those choices themselves (of course, kids can and should be restricted).
Censorship just screams at my American values and my way of life, living under the Constiution and the Bill of Rights, and I suspect many of my fellow Americans feel the same way.
I'm just surprised the list has'nt been updated to remove some of those old games. Like any kid is going to be effected by the likes of River Raid and Commando now when we have games like Postal 2. :/
Nature Boy
08-18-2003, 11:28 AM
It's a old argument, but I have yet to see any hard and fast proof that violence in games de-senstises kids and makes them think that violence is okay in the real world.
Part of the problem is that you're approaching the bans from your cultural point of view. I don't necessarily think Germany's bans were *necessarily* an effort to prevent kids from playing violent games. It's perhaps a sensitive issue for adults as well as kids, and they're exercising their right *not* to see violent games. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Perhaps our German readers will prove me wrong though?
Ruudos
08-18-2003, 11:43 AM
So if a game is banned, that means the game can't be sold in Germany but you could have someone send you the game from out of the country, right?
I don't think it isn't too hard to get game. They could buy the games in any of the countries next to them (Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Holland, etc)
Mayhem
08-18-2003, 12:04 PM
But as I said, that's what German friends of mine do, and sometimes they get caught because the Postal services can and will inspect packages coming into the country :/
Result is the game(s) in question are confiscated and no recompense paid...
Saturn Sensei
08-18-2003, 12:40 PM
Censorship just screams at my American values and my way of life, living under the Constiution and the Bill of Rights, and I suspect many of my fellow Americans feel the same way. :/
Too bad then that America is so harsh at censoring:
Blockbuster and Wal-Mart don't carry unrated or NC-17 movies. I have to drive for miles to get to Tower Records to rent movies.
Movies are cut down to shreds on TV.
Wal-Mart doesn't carry certain violent videogames, and being the largest game retailer in America, what do you think that does to developers and publishers? Well, we'll leave this aspect of the game out or we'll lose Wal-Mart....... Might not be as obvious censoring as Germany but.........
In defense of Germany I also have to say that they do not censor sex in the same way as over here(unless it has aspects of violence along with the sex). So a game with sex and nudity could probably be released over there whereas it would get an AO rating here. Which is worse for a child to see: nudity or violence?
vincewy
11-29-2003, 11:01 PM
Here's one stance I agree more with European (not just Germany) than American.
Europeans are very strict on violence, yet open to nudity/sex and political incorrectness, the opposite for US. I heard one game Nintendo of A censored all nudity, religious preferences, yet the violence is retained, WTF? It's telling the public, violence is good, sex is bad.
bensenvill
11-30-2003, 03:00 PM
GREAT QUESTION
Anyways if memory serves me correctly, games like "army men" were renamed "Plastic Men". Once again, I am digging deep into my memory but I think games walk a funny line there where if it uses human characters its bad but if its green plastic men its ok.
The hard-core items on the list really suprise me. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought germany was known for those things? LoL
~Tj
Sylentwulf
11-30-2003, 03:21 PM
Actually, what I find more odd about that list is all of the porn-related games. You guys get no violence, I can understand, but no sex? shit, you're just breeding more violence by denial of sex!
England is hard on censorship too, games and films.
Games are cut, films are cut, and videos are heavily cut.
Until recently, The Exorcist, Straw Dogs, The story of O, Halloween 2 and many more films were banned in the UK. Even now, many films don't get a video release and are banned.
Germany actually has 2 censorship laws.
In the case of River Raid (which had the German title 'Fluss ohne Wiederkehr'), it was banned only for sale to minors, eg under 18's.
In the case of Wolfenstein 3D, it was totally banned, due to references to Adolf Hitler.
CitizenWhite
11-30-2003, 10:35 PM
I used to play RTCW a lot... I was actually in a clan (RTCWPUNX) in the game. The guy that started the clan was from Germany, and two of our other members were from there as well. I actually liked playing as the Axis better because of the weapons. Other than that, its just one team against another, nothing more.
What they did take out for the german version was just as the other guy said, the swastikas and iron crosses and the like. There were many patches available to add those back in though.
And, like also was said before, if you don't like a game, don't play it. Same thing with many other issues, alcohol, abortion, blue laws, you understand.