Atari Jaguar Anyone??????????

[jgray3493]

Is there anyone out there that shares the same enthusiasm as me about the Atari Jaguar System and the CD add-on???????? Hello, it was after all the first 64 bit system ever made. Well it was said to be 64 bit but we all know now that it was really just 32 bit. Just the same as its rival, the 3DO.

[retroman]

I myself am a Jag fan. I have the Jag, and the Jag CD with 26 games total. I do like the 3DO better though. The Jag just cant compete with its graphics and the fact that it has a much better game selection than the Jag does. Not hating on the Jag I do like it. Just my opinion.

[WCP]

I bought the Jag on launch day, and I supported it pretty strongly until the arrival of the Playstation.

Truth be told, I don't think the Jaguar is one of the better gaming systems, but I will say that I think it's MUCH better than the 32X. So that's at least something.... right ?

There are only a handful of Jaguar games that are really special to me, but I still have some very positive vibes in relation to the Jag. The biggest problem with the Jag back in the day, was waiting for the games to finally come out. It was extremely painful as an early adopter to keep hearing about all these games, and to keep having the games delayed. Some of the games never ever got released, and some were huge duds when they finally did come out.

Still, I'll always remember my experience with Cybermorph at launch, and also when I got the Jag version of Doom. The Jag version of Doom was really my first, legit experience with Doom. Yes, it didn't have music, but I still feel like it blew the 32X version out of the water.

[Ze_ro]

The biggest problem with the Jag back in the day, was waiting for the games to finally come out. It was extremely painful as an early adopter to keep hearing about all these games, and to keep having the games delayed. Some of the games never ever got released, and some were huge duds when they finally did come out.

So many games were rushed to market far sooner than they should have been, resulting in buggy, unpolished, or flat-out unfinished games. Yes, the waiting was painful... but I really wish they'd put in the extra time to get music in more games... and put a battle mode into Atari Karts... and fix the controls in Checkered Flag... and put a few more levels into Missile Command 3D so it lasts more than 20 minutes. Some more third parties would have really helped here, as their releases would have given Atari a bit more time to finish things.

Battlemorph is fucking awesome though.

--Zero

[GhostDog]

There really wasn't any sensible reason to own a Jaguar when the Genesis and SNES were still in their prime with plenty of good games out and many more on the horizon. I just watched the following video and the Jaguar really seems like a big bust:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX9cCegEsDA

[davidbrit2]

The Jaguar is definitely my favorite console that looks like a toilet.

[Leo_A]

It can't be too worthless, we must average a thread like this every 3 or 4 months. Not bad for a system that had so little impact 20 years ago.

Tempest 2000 and Super Burnout keep the dust off mine.

[courtesi1]

I had one back in the day and sold it. Now that I'm buying videogames again I contemplate on getting another one but to be brutally honest I don't see myself doing it.

The controller is awful, and there are not many games I'm really interested in. All the homebrews coming out look like they could have been done on a SNES or Genesis.

If there is a single game that catches my attention it's Battlemorph. I really like the idea of total freedom and lots of secrets. Plus it has less of that annoying green bitch.

But is it worth reacquiring a system + CD drive for? That's the question...

[WCP]

There really wasn't any sensible reason to own a Jaguar when the Genesis and SNES were still in their prime with plenty of good games out and many more on the horizon.


Well, you have to understand that for somebody who was around in late 1993, and you heard about the Jaguar, this new 64-bit beast, it would be very hard not to be excited about it. Of course, you'd have no idea that the Jaguar isn't really a 64-bit beast at all, and that 90 percent of the software would come from UK development studios that nobody has ever heard of. You didn't know that games would trickle out ever so slowly. You didn't know that huge games like Aliens vs. Predator would continually get delayed.

All of that is "hindsight is 20/20" type stuff.

Still, don't underestimate the power of a game like Cybermorph in November 1993. I was thoroughly blown away by that game when I first got my hands on it. Tons of people will talk shit about Cybermorph nowadays, but I think the vast majority of people that talk shit didn't play that game in 1993 or 1994. People that did, know how amazing that game really was at that particular time. I think a lot of the smack talking about Cybermorph, is that people were expecting it to be like Starfox, and that it would be this space shooter where you're battling aliens on hostile worlds.

Truth is, the game is more of a puzzle game than anything else. It's not trying to be a Starfox game at all. But that was the general expectation. Starfox, but on steroids. When people finally tried the game, and quickly realized that it wasn't Starfox on crack, they immediately cried foul and said the game sucked. It's too bad they didn't judge the game for what it really was. One of the first ever, open world type games, where your ship could basically go anywhere on the surface of these uniquely designed planets.

There are like 50 different levels of that game, to hunt down all the pods that are scattered on the various planets, and it's just basically a puzzle game in the grand scheme of things, but a very good puzzle game, that was pretty groundbreaking at the time.

[GhostDog]

Well, you have to understand that for somebody who was around in late 1993, and you heard about the Jaguar, this new 64-bit beast, it would be very hard not to be excited about it. Of course, you'd have no idea that the Jaguar isn't really a 64-bit beast at all, and that 90 percent of the software would come from UK development studios that nobody has ever heard of. You didn't know that games would trickle out ever so slowly. You didn't know that huge games like Aliens vs. Predator would continually get delayed.

All of that is "hindsight is 20/20" type stuff.

Still, don't underestimate the power of a game like Cybermorph in November 1993. I was thoroughly blown away by that game when I first got my hands on it. Tons of people will talk shit about Cybermorph nowadays, but I think the vast majority of people that talk shit didn't play that game in 1993 or 1994. People that did, know how amazing that game really was at that particular time. I think a lot of the smack talking about Cybermorph, is that people were expecting it to be like Starfox, and that it would be this space shooter where you're battling aliens on hostile worlds.

Truth is, the game is more of a puzzle game than anything else. It's not trying to be a Starfox game at all. But that was the general expectation. Starfox, but on steroids. When people finally tried the game, and quickly realized that it wasn't Starfox on crack, they immediately cried foul and said the game sucked. It's too bad they didn't judge the game for what it really was. One of the first ever, open world type games, where your ship could basically go anywhere on the surface of these uniquely designed planets.

There are like 50 different levels of that game, to hunt down all the pods that are scattered on the various planets, and it's just basically a puzzle game in the grand scheme of things, but a very good puzzle game, that was pretty groundbreaking at the time.

Yeah, looks like Atari really screwed over gamers back then. I have to admit that the advertising and marketing was great. I mean, who doesn't think a Jaguar is cool and that they advertised the system as being some kind of powerful beast? The only problem is that controller because it looks super ugly and the best developers weren't on board so the system didn't get used to its full potential. Still, the Genesis and SNES were still great consoles but gamers wanted more too soon and got screwed over with things like SEGA CD, Jaguar, 3DO and 32X.

[courtesi1]

In the 1MB of Cybermorph is the green woman completely removed?

[vintagegamecrazy]

I'll always have a soft spot for the system. It was the first obscure console I got when I first started collecting in 1998. I have the boxed console and a boxed CD for it too. It doesn't have a lot of games but there are a few that really count.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

I would get one to play Zool 2 or Rayman. Zoop's a fun game also. I also like the early FPS's. Still, most games look like they easily coulda been done on the 16 bit consoles. I'm wondering if this is simply bc developers didn't know how to use the tech to its full potential? This happens with consoles, and this was 1993 when it came out, and games like Mario 64 was still 3 years away, which really showed what u can do with 64 bits.

I'm wondering also if the CD add-on was even necessary, if the games were even that big that they'd need to be in disc format.

[courtesi1]

I would get one to play Zool 2 or Rayman. Zoop's a fun game also. I also like the early FPS's. Still, most games look like they easily coulda been done on the 16 bit consoles. I'm wondering if this is simply bc developers didn't know how to use the tech to its full potential? This happens with consoles, and this was 1993 when it came out, and games like Mario 64 was still 3 years away, which really showed what u can do with 64 bits.

I'm wondering also if the CD add-on was even necessary, if the games were even that big that they'd need to be in disc format.

A Jaguar developer can probably be more specific but from what I could tell from reading their forums is that there were/are a lot of undocumented hardware bugs in the Jag which probably caused them to shy away from using the RISC processors more. Also, I think if you develop a CD game you get less RAM for some reason. It's a difficult console to code for if you want the end product to look 64-bit.

[jgray3493]

Ok that's nice that some of you detest the Jaguar. I can actually agree for some part as far as the graphics on certain games. They are in fact pretty terrible, but there's something about this console that just won't die.

Anyways I have a few questions that I'm sure someone on this site can answer. As we know there are a handful of games for the Jaguar that are pretty damn rare. And I've been keeping up with a couple of companies that have reproduced about 10 or 20 copies of these rare games. Well the original games go for anywhere between $1-$200 or more and the reproductions are just a little under that. My question is, are the reproductions worth almost as much as the originals? Does this significantly change the cost and rarity of these games. Yes I know a game is a game but is there really a big difference between the originals and the reproductions?????

[tom]

I would get one to play Zool 2 or Rayman. Zoop's a fun game also. I also like the early FPS's. Still, most games look like they easily coulda been done on the 16 bit consoles. I'm wondering if this is simply bc developers didn't know how to use the tech to its full potential? This happens with consoles, and this was 1993 when it came out, and games like Mario 64 was still 3 years away, which really showed what u can do with 64 bits.

.

True, here's what Miyamoto said about SNES programming, they just weren't up to it
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo12/Alison123456789/bookGameOver.jpg

[8-Bit Archeology]

I have a jaguar with 3 games.
Cybermorph
Chekered Flag
And a soccer game I cant recall right now.

To be honest I got it for free as a non working console. I replaced the rf unit and bam. But I only played Cybemorph that once for like 5 minutes. I do want to hook it back up and start getting games for it. But having a large collection that grows about 8 games a month, keeps me from having intrest in shelved games. I work 7 days a week no days off and saldy the only games I am playing are either new or handheld. The games I really want to get for the Jaguar are
Tempest
Missile Command
Raiden
And Worms.

I will have to agree with most reviews about the controller though. Its more annoying and uncomfortable than all the controllers I have. Other than my secret hate for the standard N64 controller.

[Leo_A]

The only thing circled there from him is saying that they'll learn more about how to maximize the potential of the SuperNes as time goes on. That goes for any new game system so it's hardly an indictment of it or Super Mario World.

I very much doubt he ever considered Super Mario World a disappointment. It did precisely what it was supposed to do and has remained a beloved release since it originally launched. I think it would be high up or at the top of many a classic gaming fan's list for best launch titles ever and it's legitimately in contention for a good number of folks, including myself, as their favorite videogame of all even when looking past just launch releases.

[WCP]

shit... I rank Super Mario World No.1 overall, among all video games... EVER!

[TurboGenesis]

Yes, I like the Jaguar.. it's my favorite Atari console after the Atari 5200 (another misunderstood, under appreciated Atari console)... I had it at launch and I, too, was amazed with Cybermorph.. I guess I say this..... the Jaguar brings a different gaming experience. if one goes in expecting typical game fare as that found on contemporary consoles, there will likely be disappointment. it's common practice for everyone to slam and hate on the Jaguar.. but to appreciate, I guess you'd have to have been there in the early 1990s, AND have an open mind to 'different' game playing experience and expectations... and, the controller isn't horrible, for most applications... it's functional and comfortable to hold, only being awkward when needing to use the number pad in situation where the action is hectic in game....
but the mainstream masses will continue to slam and hate the Jaguar without ever understanding it, only because it is popular to do so... and then for such hate, WHY is it so expensive to get into Atari Jaguar today.....

[WCP]

Is there a flash cart for the Atari Jaguar ?

There are some games I'd love to play on Jaguar, but you're right, Jag collecting is not for the faint of heart. It can get pretty damn expensive.

[Bojay1997]

Ok that's nice that some of you detest the Jaguar. I can actually agree for some part as far as the graphics on certain games. They are in fact pretty terrible, but there's something about this console that just won't die.

Anyways I have a few questions that I'm sure someone on this site can answer. As we know there are a handful of games for the Jaguar that are pretty damn rare. And I've been keeping up with a couple of companies that have reproduced about 10 or 20 copies of these rare games. Well the original games go for anywhere between $1-$200 or more and the reproductions are just a little under that. My question is, are the reproductions worth almost as much as the originals? Does this significantly change the cost and rarity of these games. Yes I know a game is a game but is there really a big difference between the originals and the reproductions?????

What specific games are you talking about? Are you talking about homebrews that got a second run or reproductions of games released at retail? If it's the latter, the reproductions are worth significantly less than the original.

[Leo_A]

Is there a flash cart for the Atari Jaguar ?

A good percentage of the Jaguar community would have a conniption if there was. There are some that think it's 1995 still, that this is a commercially viable system, and that it's big business with a potential to grow exponentially in the future. So they view a flash cartridge as merely a piracy enabler that would hurt these efforts despite that being anything but the case for systems like the Colecovision and Atari 7800.

Instead, what little publishing of note that has happened over the better part of the past 20 years has been releasing unreleased commercial projects. Beyond the occasional modest homebrew effort (Several of which shine even though they're not major affairs), there's very little development activity here. Much of what they think they're protecting are little more than futile dreams or people like the guy that stole a classic arcade game and released it before going nuts that thought he was an actual development/publishing house and was owed by the community to follow all his dictates if he were to continue. Not the type of homebrew attitude that deserves to be supported when there are great guys like PacManPlus in the Atari community doing it for the love of it and the community that they enjoy being a member of.

And I suspect some are collectors that are terrified of a few cartridges in their collection being devalued. Despite being an owner of the big one that goes for the most money, I can't say as I'd be upset to see others find alternate means to experience this. I don't support pirating homebrews, but as a Jaguar fan, it's definitely not a reason to be against a reprogrammable flash multicart that has so many legitimately useful advantages for the gamer and collector. Just because it can be used for a distasteful purpose doesn't erase the advantages it would offer.

I can't imagine something like my Atari 7800 these days without my Cuttle Cart II. It has added so much to my enjoyment of the system. Hopefully they come around someday and view such a development as an asset instead of something to crusade against.

Maybe it could finally rise from the dead in classic gaming circles like the 7800 has for anyone that has paid attention to the goings on there with the homebrew scene. Instead, sometimes this community in the past (I don't much follow it now for years) acts like it's in a Cold War of its own that's out to destroy itself instead of trying to flourish.

[Bojay1997]

A good percentage of the Jaguar community would have a conniption if there was. There are some that think it's 1995 still, that this is a commercially viable system, and that it's big business with a potential to grow exponentially in the future. So they view a flash cartridge as merely a piracy enabler that would hurt these efforts despite that being anything but the case for systems like the Colecovision and Atari 7800.

Instead, what little publishing of note that has happened over the better part of the past 20 years has been releasing unreleased commercial projects. Beyond the occasional modest homebrew effort (Several of which shine even though they're not major affairs), there's very little development activity here. Much of what they think they're protecting are little more than futile dreams or people like the guy that stole a classic arcade game and released it before going nuts that thought he was an actual development/publishing house and was owed by the community to follow all his dictates if he were to continue. Not the type of homebrew attitude that deserves to be supported when there are great guys like PacManPlus in the Atari community doing it for the love of it and the community that they enjoy being a member of.

And I suspect some are collectors that are terrified of a few cartridges in their collection being devalued. Despite being an owner of the big one that goes for the most money, I can't say as I'd be upset to see others find alternate means to experience this. I don't support pirating homebrews, but as a Jaguar fan, it's definitely not a reason to be against a reprogrammable flash multicart that has so many legitimately useful advantages for the gamer and collector. Just because it can be used for a distasteful purpose doesn't erase the advantages it would offer.

I can't imagine something like my Atari 7800 these days without my Cuttle Cart II. It has added so much to my enjoyment of the system. Hopefully they come around someday and view such a development as an asset instead of something to crusade against.

Maybe it could finally rise from the dead in classic gaming circles like the 7800 has for anyone that has paid attention to the goings on there with the homebrew scene. Instead, sometimes this community in the past (I don't much follow it now for years) acts like it's in a Cold War of its own that's out to destroy itself instead of trying to flourish.

There is actually a Skunkboard USB/Flash cart available for the Jaguar that allows the use of both commercial games and homebrews. The compromise the developers of the Skunkboard made is that a homebrew developer can lock their games out of being useable on the Skunkboard if they so choose. There is also a pretty healthy homebrew scene on the Jaguar beyond just the unreleased commercial games. I suspect the limited size of the active user base for the Jaguar is more of a factor for programmers choosing other platforms for homebrew projects than the lack of availability of an easy flashcart solution. The Jaguar Cart and CD encryption was unlocked a number of years ago now and most owners hardcore enough to continue actively playing their Jaguars likely have the CD Drive as well and most of the more recent projects have been distributed on CD-Roms.

[Leo_A]

There is actually a Skunkboard USB/Flash cart available for the Jaguar that allows the use of both commercial games and homebrews.

That really doesn't do much good for the average fan.

With the multitude of solutions for many other classic systems out there, I have the convenience of having my own collection on a single cartridge if I'm not in the mood for changing games, I can easily play freely released homebrew efforts, I can get into the testing stages for many a homebrew, I can check out prototypes, I can check out various modifications of commercially released software from back in the day, I can check out commercial efforts that long ago ceased to be sold or protected by the IP holder that are fair game by most classic gamer's standards, and in many cases, it adds functionality that the original hardware never had like 7800 cartridges integrating the never officially released high score saving support.

Easily acquired multicart solutions only seem to have encouraged other homebrew communities and their fans. But in the Jaguar community, it often instead is portrayed as the devil and as the final nail in the Jaguar's coffin at a time when homebrew development has really hit its stride for several classic systems despite easily acquired multicart solutions.

I can't speak for them, but I bet someone like Pac-Man Plus would only have good things to say all around about something like the Cuttle Cart II.


There is also a pretty healthy homebrew scene on the Jaguar beyond just the unreleased commercial games.

I did a poor job of phrasing that, I fear. There indeed is quality homebrew activity taking place in the Jaguar community.

But it's not nearly to the degree that some of the most vocal and opinionated folks would like to think it is. Some attitudes are like I said and they act like this is big business that needs to be protected and that a multicart would lead to its destruction. And oftentimes, what is made available is often unavailable to quite a few Jaguar fans even when freely released by its author. Homebrew cartridges are expensive all around and rarely produced and the CD player is expensive not to mention the media is easily pirated with hardware in all of our homes.

A Everdrive/Harmony/Powerpak/Cuttle Cart style solution for the Jaguar would be very welcomed I believe once it was de-stigmatized and would only help the homebrew community reach its full potential.

Hopefully someday...

[Bojay1997]

That really doesn't do much good for the average fan.

With the multitude of solutions for many other classic systems out there, I have the convenience of having my own collection on a single cartridge if I'm not in the mood for changing games, I can easily play freely released homebrew efforts, I can get into the testing stages for many a homebrew, I can check out prototypes, I can check out various modifications of commercially released software from back in the day, I can check out commercial efforts that long ago ceased to be sold or protected by the IP holder that are fair game by most classic gamer's standards, and in many cases, it adds functionality that the original hardware never had like 7800 cartridges integrating the never officially released high score saving support.

Easily acquired multicart solutions only seem to have encouraged other homebrew communities and their fans. But in the Jaguar community, it often instead is portrayed as the devil and as the final nail in the Jaguar's coffin at a time when homebrew development has really hit its stride for several classic systems despite easily acquired multicart solutions.

I can't speak for them, but I bet someone like Pac-Man Plus would only have good things to say all around about something like the Cuttle Cart II.



I did a poor job of phrasing that, I fear. There indeed is quality homebrew activity taking place in the Jaguar community.

But it's not nearly to the degree that some of the most vocal and opinionated folks would like to think it is. Some attitudes are like I said and they act like this is big business that needs to be protected and that a multicart would lead to its destruction. And oftentimes, what is made available is often unavailable to quite a few Jaguar fans even when freely released by its author. Homebrew cartridges are expensive all around and rarely produced and the CD player is expensive not to mention the media is easily pirated with hardware in all of our homes.

A Everdrive/Harmony/Powerpak/Cuttle Cart style solution for the Jaguar would be very welcomed I believe once it was de-stigmatized and would only help the homebrew community reach its full potential.

Hopefully someday...

Meh...I think the comparison to classic console multi-carts is a poor one. The Jaguar is more comparable to the SNES or Sega Genesis and while there are flash multi-carts available for those systems with removable storage cards, they are pricey and frankly not that much different than the Skunkboard. I suspect there will eventually be a more inexpensive and widely available solution for the Jaguar, but I don't know how significantly the audience is going to grow as it's still a niche system that ended up not being all that much more powerful or impressive than other 16 bit systems of the day.

[kikenovic]

I tried the Jaguar for the first time at VGS 2012. Not bad. I certainly had a blast playing Tempest. Rayman was as good as the PSX version. The racing game I played on the CD system was ok. The controller is bulky but still I think it's better than the N64.

[Leo_A]

The Everdrive, SD2SNES, and Super Powerpak are fine contemporary flashcarts. They're definitely not extremely limited in their capabilities and are extremely user friendly. And while the SD2SNES is pricey, the others are priced fairly competitively to most any modern reprogrammable flash multicart. A little bit more than something like a Harmony for the 2600, but the technical requirements they face are a good bit higher which naturally leads to them being more expensive to produce.

Definitely not the 16 bit equivalents of the Skunkboard that is little more than a development tool. Great for programmers and testers, but of limited utility for the Jaguar gamer although I'm sure a good many went to such individuals since several hundred were sold through multiple revisions.

Excellent emulation and excellent multicarts are two of several reasons why homebrew thrives so much more on several classic consoles than it does on the Jaguar. It's a great tool for developer, publisher, and the community itself. Yet in the Jaguar world, both have been commonly derided. Attitudes seem to be changing towards emulation in recent years though, so I hold out hope that someone with the skills and desire will produce a multicart solution for this system and not be scared away.

[jgray3493]

What specific games are you talking about? Are you talking about homebrews that got a second run or reproductions of games released at retail? If it's the latter, the reproductions are worth significantly less than the original.

Here's a few.....Worms, Total Carnage, Towers II, Iron Soldier II, Breakout 2000, Skyhammer, Protector SE, HyperForce, and Soccer Kid are some that just got put on eBay. The seller is a company that specializes in atari. The eBay ID is "myatari". Anyways check it out.

[Leo_A]

None of those are reproductions. The Songbird games have never ceased being available from Songbird except the original Protector that was superceded by the special edition and the Telegames releases that are produced today are as official as they always were and are just new production runs from Telegames. Several vendors get new stock of the Telegames releases in from time to time from them like My Atari and Songbird.

As far as I'm aware, other than perhaps a prototype or two that has been manufactured and released without official permission like I imagine has been the case for Phaze Zero to name one release, nothing out there for the Jaguar qualifys as a reproduction.

[Bojay1997]

Here's a few.....Worms, Total Carnage, Towers II, Iron Soldier II, Breakout 2000, Skyhammer, Protector SE, HyperForce, and Soccer Kid are some that just got put on eBay. The seller is a company that specializes in atari. The eBay ID is "myatari". Anyways check it out.

Those are not technically reproductions, they are simply additional print runs by the original publisher. Having said that, I have heard that the more recent print runs of the Telegames carts are of poorer quality than the originals as far as box, sticker and manual quality and in the case of their Lynx games, even the physical cartridge. As such, I have seen people pay more for the earlier runs of Telegames Lynx and Jaguar games because they don't like the newer editions.

[Ze_ro]

I had one back in the day and sold it. Now that I'm buying videogames again I contemplate on getting another one but to be brutally honest I don't see myself doing it.
There really isn't any reason to get a Jaguar anymore. Back in the days, it had great versions of games like Raiden, NBA Jam, and Doom... but all those can be had just as well on other systems. Meanwhile, the marquee Jaguar titles like Tempest 2000, Iron Soldier and Rayman ended up getting ported to PSX and Saturn anyways... so no real point in those.

In the end, all you're really left with are some mediocre odd-duck games like Attack of the Mutant Penguins, Club Drive, and Trevor McFur. If you're a jaded collector looking for something, anything new and interesting, then sure (Hey, I own a CD-i for exactly this reason, so I ain't gonna judge). But if you're looking for a new world of fun games, then look elsewhere. The JagCD is an even worse choice.

Alien vs. Predator is one that most people talk about when they talk about the Jaguar, but the game has aged very poorly. It was awesome back in 1995, but these days you just notice all the design problems.


The controller is awful
Personally, I love the controller. It's one of the most comfortable controllers I've used. To each his own, I suppose.


All the homebrews coming out look like they could have been done on a SNES or Genesis.
Sure, they could be, but the author didn't choose to make SNES or Genesis versions. I don't really get how the Jaguar has managed to cultivate such a loyal homebrew scene (or how the SNES has totally failed to do so), but there it is.

Are you suggesting the homebrew games are a good reason to own a Jaguar though?


In the 1MB of Cybermorph is the green woman completely removed?
I'm pretty sure they just stripped down the number of voice samples. She'll appear just as often, but say the same thing over and over. At least with the 2MB version, you get some variety in your adulation.

Seriously though, learn to fly. Do NOT fly at full speed... it's not that kind of game.


Still, most games look like they easily coulda been done on the 16 bit consoles. I'm wondering if this is simply bc developers didn't know how to use the tech to its full potential?
Mostly, they were just too lazy to learn the system. Instead of making a new game that plays to the Jaguar's strengths, they just ported existing Genesis/SNES/Atari ST games hoping for a quick payoff. In most cases, the Jaguar at least had better colour.

In the end, I suppose they made the right choice. Unfortunately, any money/time they invested into serious Jaguar development wouldn't have proven very profitable. Games like Skyhammer and Battlesphere really show what the Jaguar was capable of when programmed by a skilled team, but they were far too late to save the system.


I'm wondering also if the CD add-on was even necessary, if the games were even that big that they'd need to be in disc format.
Well, Vid Grid, Myst, Dragon's Lair, Space Ace couldn't have been done on cartridge. Highlander used a lot of video cutscenes (though it could have been done without them), same with Baldies. Primal Rage could have been done on cart, though they'd likely have had to remove a lot of animation to do it. Putting Blue Lightning on CD was completely pointless.

I will say though, the CD music in Battlemorph is excellent.


The games I really want to get for the Jaguar are
Tempest
Missile Command
Raiden
And Worms.
Don't bother. Get the PSX versions instead, unless you find a great deal on them. Worms on Jaguar is crazy expensive, and has no added content. Raiden Project on PSX includes Raiden II. Missile Command is the only one you can't get anywhere else, but it's an amazingly short game.

--Zero

[Leo_A]

There really isn't any reason to get a Jaguar anymore. Back in the days, it had great versions of games like Raiden, NBA Jam, and Doom... but all those can be had just as well on other systems. Meanwhile, the marquee Jaguar titles like Tempest 2000, Iron Soldier and Rayman ended up getting ported to PSX and Saturn anyways... so no real point in those.

Neither Iron Soldier game is on the Playstation or Saturn. Playstation got a sequel titled Iron Soldier III ported from the Nuon, but not either Jaguar release.

From my collection of games bought to play, I count several that I'd consider very good that were exclusive. Nothing I'd consider a system seller, but thanks to excellent versions of several releases that did appear elsewhere, I think the console itself is a worthy addition.

The CD attachment is much more questionable. Between their age and their escalating price in recent years, I'd have a difficult time justifying ever recommending that to someone new to the system (Particularly if someone doesn't get Cybermorph since the sequel is widely considered the top release for the CD add-on).

[GhostDog]

Pretty much have to agree with Ze ro about Jaguar not being worth buying nowadays. From the video that I watched that showed all the games that were released, I was only interested in the games he mentioned which got better versions released for other systems like the PS1 and Saturn.

[bigbacon]

everyone always complains about the controller but I find it really comfortable to hold and use. they honestly could have put from shoulder buttons on there and it would have been way better, specially for games like doom, wolf 3d, AvP

[Ze_ro]

Neither Iron Soldier game is on the Playstation or Saturn. Playstation got a sequel titled Iron Soldier III ported from the Nuon, but not either Jaguar release.
Iron Soldier III on PSX is basically the same game with better graphics and more features. You're not missing out on anything by skipping the original.

--Zero

[WCP]

Iron Soldier III on PSX is basically the same game with better graphics and more features. You're not missing out on anything by skipping the original.

--Zero
wow, I had no idea that Iron Soldier came out on any other system. I'm not a huge fan of the Jag version (it's ok, but don't think it aged very well) but I'll have to check out this PS1 version sometime.

[courtesi1]

I read that the Nuon version of IS3 is much superior to the PSX version however it is not compatible with all Nuon players. They planned to offer a fixed version but it was too late.


Do any of you know if Cybermorph (either version) allows you to control the volume of the green woman? If not, I may pick up a Jag/CD just for Battlemorph unless you guys can recommend a title on another system that is just about the same as this.

[Steve W]

I've always loved the Jaguar, I picked it up in late 1993 (Dallas was one of the test markets so I got mine before the nationwide launch date, giving me an extra long wait for new games to trickle out) and I have pretty much all the games I really want for the system, other than maybe Battlesphere and a few others of the post-death releases like Skyhammer. And whenever somebody mentions the Jaguar, they always complain about the controller. And yet, I happen to like it, especially the Pro-Controller. I wonder, if it could have been redesigned before release to look visually smaller, if people would have not crapped their pants about it so much. Most people ramble about how large it is, but it's the perfect size for my hands. A third-party company should have put out an alternative back in the day, a company like Logitech (formed by former Atari employees if I recall).

[Ze_ro]

Most of the people who complain about the Jaguar's controller have never actually used it.

So it's big? Check out this picture (http://www.mathpirate.net/log/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/SizeComparison.jpg), and you can see it's not even much bigger than a Dreamcast controller, and I don't recall anyone complaining about that. It's certainly not heavy either.

So it's got a keypad? Big deal. Games didn't have to use it, and many didn't. Those that did generally came with overlays so you knew what button was what. Wasn't confusing in the slightest. I found it quite helpful for switching weapons and stuff. Frankly, I find shoulder buttons a stranger idea than a keypad.

--Zero

[WCP]

The D-Pad of the Jaguar controller is probably my biggest complaint about it.

Not a very comfortable D-Pad by any stretch. Kinda mushy feel to it. I'd hate to try to play a serious fighting game with that controller.

[peeingas]

Most of the people who complain about the Jaguar's controller have never actually used it.

--Zero

I was about to post the same thing. Most people who complain about something, or praise something on the internet have never actually used it.

[T2KFreeker]

The only thing circled there from him is saying that they'll learn more about how to maximize the potential of the SuperNes as time goes on. That goes for any new game system so it's hardly an indictment of it or Super Mario World.

I very much doubt he ever considered Super Mario World a disappointment. It did precisely what it was supposed to do and has remained a beloved release since it originally launched. I think it would be high up or at the top of many a classic gaming fan's list for best launch titles ever and it's legitimately in contention for a good number of folks, including myself, as their favorite videogame of all even when looking past just launch releases.

I hate to rain on your parade man, but Miyamoto said he thought the game was a disappointment to him. Just because the game didn't do exactly what he wanted it to do doesn't mean that a fan can't like it. Obviously there were things he wanted the game to do that they couldn't get it to do because they didn't know how to get the game to work properly due to unfamiliarity with the new graphics hardware at the time. Not like it's the first time it's ever happened i8 the past and probably won't be the last time that a developer is releasing a trimmed down game because it doesn't do what he wanted. You are a fan of the game, cool, but that doesn't mean that the creator didn't say what he said. As a creator of things myself, I know for a fact that you are your own worst critic. It is what it is. He's not saying it's a bad game, but that it didn't distinguish itslelf from it's predecessors the way he would have liked it to.

As for the Jaguar, very cool system and it is 64 bit, not 32. It has a 32-bit RISC processor, but a programmable 64 bit Object Processor, a 64 bit blitter for object processing and a programmable 64 bit DRAM controller. How that equals a 32 bit system is beyond me. Just because the RISC chip is 32 bit doesn't make it a 32 bit system. It also has a 68000 series chip in it too, so I guess that means it's an 16 bit system? In the end though, the 68000 chip, which was supposed to be used for communication between everything, is the reason why so many of the Jaguar games looked like recolored Genesis games. Many of the third party programmers used the chip and just recolored Genesis games and released them for the Jaguar. It is partially Atari's fault though for not releasing any documentation for programming on the system.

Oh, and for the record, for those of you that complain about Cybermorph and it's "Bland Graphics", if you played the game for longer than five minutes you might get to some of the later levels where the graphics get amazing. This game is always so unfairly bashed into the earth when retreaded crap like Call of Duty is held in such high regard. At least Cybermorph/Battlemorph were trying to do something different from what everyone else was doing. And lastly, the Jaguar controller isn't that bad. There are several other first party controllers that have released over time that were much worse. It's amazing how so many people have an opinion on the controller when there are barely so many systems out there to support that many people actually getting their hands on the controller. Even if you held the controller and banged on the buttons for a moment and moved the D-Pad around, it doesn't count unless you were playing a game with it. Just saying. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though as I have personally always hated the Playstation style controller. I love fighting games and the D-Pad sucks for them.

LASTLY, on the TEMPEST on other systems thing.TEMPEST 2000 on the Jaguar is MUCH better on the Jaguar over the Saturn version and TEMPEST X3 for the Playstation. It doesn't have the buggy glitches that the Saturn and Playstation have and the AI is so much better on the Jaguar version. If you don't believe me, send Jeff Minter and e-mail and ask him. He'll explain everything to you. The Goraud shaded graphics look so much better and cleaner on the Cart version to boot. You could argue that the CD Digitized soundtrack sounds better, but many people who have listened to the soundtracks side by side actually gravitate more to the cart version. AND, the Jaguar version also supports a rotary controller, the way that TEMPEST is supposed to be played. I am a HUGE fan of TEMPEST, and it's always been one of my favorite games. Played it in and out and can never get enough. The Jaguar version is superior as a game, hands down. Take it from T2KFreeker on that one. LOL I haven't really played a superior TEMPEST game to 2000 on the Jaguar until TxK on the Vita which just came out. Still, as good as it is, T2K is still it's own experience and still very much worth owning if you have a Jaguar. If you own the PSX/Saturn version and have never played the Jaguar version, dunno' what to tell you because you wouldn't know what you are missing.

[WCP]

Oh, and for the record, for those of you that complain about Cybermorph and it's "Bland Graphics", if you played the game for longer than five minutes you might get to some of the later levels where the graphics get amazing. This game is always so unfairly bashed into the earth when retreaded crap like Call of Duty is held in such high regard. At least Cybermorph/Battlemorph were trying to do something different from what everyone else was doing.

Amen.

Cybermorph is one of the most underrated games that I can think of. Not only does it not get anywhere near the amount of respect that it should, it actually gets shat on, on a regular basis. And regarding the graphics, Cybermorph looks especially amazing on an RGB monitor. I have to admit that part of my love of Cybermorph has to do with the fact that it just looks like a totally different game when played on an RGB monitor. Something about the flat shaded polygons look really cool.




It's amazing how so many people have an opinion on the controller when there are barely so many systems out there to support that many people actually getting their hands on the controller. Even if you held the controller and banged on the buttons for a moment and moved the D-Pad around, it doesn't count unless you were playing a game with it. Just saying. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though as I have personally always hated the Playstation style controller. I love fighting games and the D-Pad sucks for them.

I'm guessing you're not speaking to me, but just in case you are, I can assure you that I've held the Jaguar controller many, many, many times. I actually purchased a Jag at launch, from a San Francisco Toys R Us. I was on the Jaguar bandwagon from day 1. I don't still have that original Jaguar, but I've owned 4 or 5 different Jag systems over the years, and have used as many controllers. I currently have just one Jag, and one controller, but I stick to my feelings that the D-Pad is mush on the Jag controller, and the buttons aren't very good either.

Certainly, it wasn't bad enough to stop me from playing tons of Jag games. In fact, I played through the entirety of Doom using that Jag controller. So, I learned how to deal with it. Sure, it's not ideal, but it works.

[PreZZ]

Jaguar: Terrible controller, bad sound chip, awful graphics, crappy games, CD add-on even worse than the console and most of the time broken even if you bought it brand new in 1995. Nothing to see here, move along!

[bigbacon]

my only negative with the controller is that A,B, and C's shape often lead them to stick a bit.

[Leo_A]

I hate to rain on your parade man, but Miyamoto said he thought the game was a disappointment to him.

Do you have a quote? I'd be quite surprised to see him be negative towards that classic and feel like he didn't get everything out of it that he could've at the time.

But even if he did, no such statement attributable to him is present with that book scan. The only negativity is from the author himself and someone he quoted whose name isn't even in the credits of the game.

[GhostDog]

Jaguar: Terrible controller, bad sound chip, awful graphics, crappy games, CD add-on even worse than the console and most of the time broken even if you bought it brand new in 1995. Nothing to see here, move along!

I think this has to be the truth. I never played the Jaguar myself but watching clips of all the games released for the system makes me feel the same way.

[Leo_A]

First time I hooked mine up to my Sony Trinitron, I thought that games like Tempest 2000 and Super Burnout looked like arcade games.

There's not a lot of great games here, but there are several available for it along with a decent number of more average 16 bit fare that were still solid games. Worthwhile acquisition in my eyes.

[Ze_ro]

Not a very comfortable D-Pad by any stretch. Kinda mushy feel to it. I'd hate to try to play a serious fighting game with that controller.

Well that's convenient, as the system never really got a serious fighting game. Or maybe Kasumi Ninja is actually awesome and was just being held back by the controller... that would be an interesting twist!

--Zero

[otaku]

I owned one with the CD add on and honestly didn't care for it much I enjoyed a few games but most of the titles are average at best. Some of the newer fan made stuff is the stuff I had the most fun with through challenges for high scores and such. Also the cd add on set me back a fair amount and then preceded to break down I don't believe they are very reliable :( still worth giving a go though for those who game and collect quite a bit such as I did at one point

[T2KFreeker]

Okay, I really need to throw this out there. I have owned THREE Jaguar CD decks and they all worked just fine. When I worked for Game Dude, the system would constantly come in broken. Know what we did to fix them? Usually the door latch button get's jammed because people slam the door down. Honest to God, that is a huge issue with the system. is it a manufacturing flaw? Yes, but still, you shouldn't be slamming the lid of the CD door either. 9 times out of 10, when the CD system would be "Broken", this would fix the issue and it would magically work again. Gotta' be gentle with the Jaguar CD. Also, dust likes to get in there and help to jam it as well, so yeah, gotta' be gentle with it.