Has a console ever depreciated as quickly as the Xbox One ?

[WCP]

I've been around gaming a very long time, and I'm not sure that I've seen a "major" console depreciate faster than the Xbox One has depreciated in value. It's been about 20 years since I've seen anything like this. The Panasonic 3DO launched for $699.99, and I'm sure by late April 1994, you could find a used one in the classified section of your newspaper for maybe $450 or $400, which is a really huge drop in value.

However, in the 20 years since the 3DO, I can't think of anything that has depreciated as quickly. Also, it's kind of hard to consider the 3DO a "major" system, so you'd probably have to go back even farther.


So, I bought an Xbox One on launch day, and I paid about $517 with tax and everything ( I had a Target red card, so actually got 5 percent off or it would be a bit higher ). I paid $517, and I got an Xbox One system, along with a controller, power supply, Kinect 2.0, etc, etc. No games came with my Xbox One, and I didn't get a second controller.

So now, about 5 months later, I can go to my local Craigslist, and there are people "struggling" to even get $350 for their Xbox One system. Demand has literally fallen off a cliff it seems. The stores are overflowing with stock, and anybody that really, really wanted a Xbox One, has probably already gotten one. If you're in a situation where you are forced to sell off your Xbox One for whatever reason, you're going to take a HUGE loss on the thing unfortunately.

I saw this one guy selling an Xbox One system, and he was including two games, and an extra controller, and he was trying to get $350 for the thing. That's with 2 games and an extra controller ! So, the one that I bought for $517, which only includes the one controller, and doesn't include any games, must be worth even less than $350. In fact, if you were in a desperate situation, and had to sell your Xbox One for whatever reason, and you didn't have any extra controllers or games, you're probably looking at $300 in the clear, which is downright laughable, considering this thing is only like 5 months old. To go from having a $500 value to having a $300 value in 5 months, is almost unfathomable. Yet, that is exactly what is going on with the Xbox One. Sure, the 3DO had a similar decline, but 3DO wasn't the market leading console in the previous generation. 3DO was a bit player at the time. Probably given less of a chance of success than even TTi's TurboDuo or the Atari Jaguar. So, you might have to consider the 3DO like the 4th or 5th competitor at the time. Microsoft is one of the big 3 right now, and their number one platform has lost almost half of it's value on the secondary market, in a mere 5 months.

[Tanooki]

Wow that's sad and I had no idea. That royally sucks for anyone who paid up on it as that's a good 40% loss in a matter of less than a half year on the market. There's really no incentive buying a new one with deals like that.

I'm almost not surprised. MS screwed themselves up front hard core with their fans and more so with interested parties trying to pick and choose. They set the thing up with somewhat inferior(to PS4) hardware yet ask $100 more for it since they refuse to do a non-camera boxed option. You get that whole thing on how DRM would be the best thing ever and developers getting wood over being able to screw and control consumers which backfires horribly and the only take it back after so long it did damage. If you want the BIG game for their system, it's not even system specific as Titanfall is on the PC, and beyond that you don't have their minimal system specific staples yet of Forza, Halo and Gears. Even with that all against them, it's still crazy that huge of a fall off.

[WCP]

A lot of people will look at this situation, and they will just say something like.... "Well that's just the normal Early Adopter Tax.. If you're an early adopter, you always get screwed".


I understand that sentiment, but it's not always the case. Yes, there is always an Early Adopter Tax that you have to pay, because the price is always going to come down, and the deal will always be sweetened with extra things thrown in, but usually the penalty isn't as severe as this. For example, if you bought a PS4, you probably paid like $416 or so, and if you were forced to sell your PS4 right now, you could probably get $350. Sure, you're taking a $66 hit in value, but that's peanuts compared to the XB1.

Also, I'm not trying to be a hater on the XB1 with this. I try not to show allegiance to any particular make or model. My allegiance is more with specific developers that seem to bring the heat more often than not. I could really care less about the name stamped on the outside of the hardware. Also, I'm not going to be selling my XB1 anytime soon, primarily because I know that if i did sell it, in about 4 more months some game would come out , and I would want to buy the XB1 right back, so what would be the point of selling it ? But, still, it always stings a little bit to spend that much coin on something, and then find out that the value of the item has nearly been chopped in half. I guess it doesn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, because I know over the lifespan of the XB1 I'll have some amazing experiences on that console.

[bb_hood]

People are just fed up with microsoft in general. I think very few people were excited about it before and when it was released.
Considering all of the instances of XBox360s just ceasing to function for no good reason, I think many people are wary about dropping 4-500$ on more microsoft gaming hardware. Not just that people dont want to pay so much, but people dont want anything to do with the system.
Also the whole DRM issue that microsoft tried to push. Sure they eventually decided not to implement it, but I think many gamers were left with the impression that microsoft was just screwing over the consumer. The fact that they did such a huge backtrack makes me think that microsoft as a company is just interested in pandering to the masses instead of offering newer more original content. Plus there is barely any games for the system. The WiiU suffers from the same problem. How can they expect you to pay top dollar for a new system when all the better content wont be available for 2 more years (when the system price will have dropped considerably).
In short, not many people want the system.

[Tanooki]

WCP in this case there is no way it's early adopter tax. Early adopter tax specifically in history has been about the MSRP, not the resale average price. Resale is always lower, it's used. The issue here is that it's 40-45% lower which is a cockpunching to anyone fed up with their 'One' as the one is turning into a number two in what you get back out of it.

I totally get the sentiment, hell I even got theoretically burned by the early adopter tax (3DS, despite the 'ambassador' apology package) so I truly understand that. But that's the thing, even when it was 'overpriced' it wasn't selling at nearly 1/2 price to used buyers, it was more like 30% off (250->180) being $70 off. Prior to that official drop real buyers were fine at $200 on a used one which is 20% off, not 40-45%.

I think BB makes a good set of points. People are fed up with MS. They got a bad track record. XB pops up, first units were sketchy and it was a Halo box for nearly a year. Then 360 and what do they do? Rush it out probably a year early with the RROD and other bits of fun, plus as a fuck you to their fans they killed the xbox cold turkey first party wise. THen you get the One with all the threats of DRM, being $100 more (learned NOTHING from PS3 on that one eh?), having nothing unique (Titanfall PC is superior if your hardware is decent to excellent), and the other garbage people went on about. It's just a bad trifecta of MS arrogance, pushiness, and bullshit the company is known for going back to their DOS/Windows copycat days.

[Gameguy]

How can any console today be priced higher than $300 new? To me that's the absolute cut off point in terms of value. You might as well buy a new computer at around $500. Back with consoles in the 90's, any decent computer would still cost a few thousand dollars new so several hundred for a console would still seem reasonable.

This is my view as a casual consumer, I'm not that into current consoles as I prefer older ones. I haven't even heard of any good games for this new system yet, any game that's not just a newer version in an existing franchise. Honestly I barely hear about this Xbox One console at all outside of forums like this. It kind of feels like Windows Vista, people just stopped caring about it shortly after it's been released.

[Bojay1997]

How can any console today be priced higher than $300 new? To me that's the absolute cut off point in terms of value. You might as well buy a new computer at around $500. Back with consoles in the 90's, any decent computer would still cost a few thousand dollars new so several hundred for a console would still seem reasonable.

This is my view as a casual consumer, I'm not that into current consoles as I prefer older ones. I haven't even heard of any good games for this new system yet, any game that's not just a newer version in an existing franchise. Honestly I barely hear about this Xbox One console at all outside of forums like this. It kind of feels like Windows Vista, people just stopped caring about it shortly after it's been released.

Today's consoles are essentially cheap PCs, so I'm not following the argument. If you look at various tech websites, several did an analysis of what a comparably equipped PC to a PS4 and Xbox One would cost and frankly, they found that there wasn't much mark-up and that the consoles were only slightly less capable than the PCs they could build for around the same cost.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

Once the second and third generation exclusive games on the Xbox One and PS4 start hitting stores, I think you'll see another surge in interest in the Xbox One and PS4.

[o.pwuaioc]

Someone bought an Xbox One day one? See, that's your problem, right there.

[Nebagram]

I dimly recall the Gamecube dropping in price by £40 BEFORE it was launched (to put it in perspective without having to go through a million different exchange rates, it launched in 2002 for a third of the price of the Bone in 2013).

Didn't PS3 have a similarly terrible launch? I definitely recall buying my launch PS3 off of ebay for about £80 (roughly $120-130) cheaper than the RRP, and that was less than two weeks after launch. And come to think of it, wasn't the same person- Phil Harrison- responsible for both the PS3 and the Bone's launch?

[Gamevet]

Nintendo will sell you a refurbished Wii U for $200. They're not worth much now either.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

Nintendo will sell you a refurbished Wii U for $200. They're not worth much now either.

Thank you. Thats what I came in to say as well.

Apart from that, the xboxone titanfall edition in some stores actually comes out to being a lot cheaper than the ps4 provided you actually want all the extras included. I've seen it he bundle brand new for around $430 including titanfall the game and a year of live for free. Thats a great deal no matter how you slice it. I almost considered buying it until I remembered that I hate microsoft as a game company so fuck xbox.


I'm not going to extol the virtues of sony or nintendo over microsoft like theyre our friends looking out for the little guy, but they at least make efforts to EARN my money. Even when microsoft hands you a deal I can't shake the feeling theyre fucking me over in the end and setting me up for the long con with everything they hide behind a paywall or what their ultimate plan is with the kinect.


I think thats what it all boils down to, people are slowly waking up to the way microsoft conducts business and are tired of it. People keep going on and on about a kinect less bundle being the xbox final saving grace but the kinect is the one thing that makes it unique, if you take that away then wtf do you have? A machine that costs as much as the competition but offers less in terms of exclusives and worse multiplatforms. A 400 dollar halo machine

[Greg2600]

Well this is the slow time of the year for consoles.

[Cornelius]

Today's consoles are essentially cheap PCs, so I'm not following the argument. If you look at various tech websites, several did an analysis of what a comparably equipped PC to a PS4 and Xbox One would cost and frankly, they found that there wasn't much mark-up and that the consoles were only slightly less capable than the PCs they could build for around the same cost.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

Once the second and third generation exclusive games on the Xbox One and PS4 start hitting stores, I think you'll see another surge in interest in the Xbox One and PS4.

I think you are just stating two sides of the same coin. I'm on Gameguy's side of it, though. If the hardware is essentially the same, why buy the less capable console? Just get the PC, play nearly all the same games, but also do all the other things that people do with PCs. That's my interpretation, anyway.

I agree with you about a surge when new games hit. Seems inevitable.

[Bojay1997]

I think you are just stating two sides of the same coin. I'm on Gameguy's side of it, though. If the hardware is essentially the same, why buy the less capable console? Just get the PC, play nearly all the same games, but also do all the other things that people do with PCs. That's my interpretation, anyway.

I agree with you about a surge when new games hit. Seems inevitable.

Not really. His whole argument was that consoles should be $300 or less and yet given that modern consoles are almost identical to low end PCs, it seems impossible to meet that price point. Where can you find a $300 PC with as much memory, hard drive space, as powerful a processor and graphics card, along with the same audio capability and HD output, plus a Blu Ray drive? Unless you're building it yourself and using low end components and not using any Microsoft or other licensed software, I think building a PC for that amount is pretty difficult or impossible and it probably wouldn't perform as well as either a PS4 or Xbox One. You can buy or build a PC for $500, but is it going to have the same longevity as the PS4 or Xbox One as a viable gaming platform? Not in my experience unless you aren't playing graphics and processor intensive games.

I see owning a console as giving up some performance in exchange for the ability to play games that will likely never come to the PC and avoiding the obsolescence that comes quickly to low end PCs, especially for gaming. I actually own a PC and a MAC that are both used for modern gaming, but if I had to pick either a console for gaming or a PC, I would always go for the console even if the pricing is similar.

[Gameguy]

I think you are just stating two sides of the same coin. I'm on Gameguy's side of it, though. If the hardware is essentially the same, why buy the less capable console? Just get the PC, play nearly all the same games, but also do all the other things that people do with PCs. That's my interpretation, anyway.

I agree with you about a surge when new games hit. Seems inevitable.
That's exactly what I was getting at. If consoles are the same price point as a PC, you might as well just buy a PC which has less limitations with how you use it. :)


Not really. His whole argument was that consoles should be $300 or less and yet given that modern consoles are almost identical to low end PCs, it seems impossible to meet that price point. Where can you find a $300 PC with as much memory, hard drive space, as powerful a processor and graphics card, along with the same audio capability and HD output, plus a Blu Ray drive? Unless you're building it yourself and using low end components and not using any Microsoft or other licensed software, I think building a PC for that amount is pretty difficult or impossible and it probably wouldn't perform as well as either a PS4 or Xbox One. You can buy or build a PC for $500, but is it going to have the same longevity as the PS4 or Xbox One as a viable gaming platform? Not in my experience unless you aren't playing graphics and processor intensive games.

I see owning a console as giving up some performance in exchange for the ability to play games that will likely never come to the PC and avoiding the obsolescence that comes quickly to low end PCs, especially for gaming. I actually own a PC and a MAC that are both used for modern gaming, but if I had to pick either a console for gaming or a PC, I would always go for the console even if the pricing is similar.
My argument was that as a casual consumer, it doesn't seem like a good deal to spend more than $300 on a console. Since the current Wii U released at $299.99, it's more than just possible for consoles to be released at that price point. If a console was $500 today, I would spend a bit more to buy a new PC and stick to that. At least when there doesn't appear to be any exclusive games that look like must own titles. Consoles aren't even just for playing games anymore, they're like media players for streaming video. Any PC can do that too. Just reading up on the "benefits" of this Xbox One console, it includes a built-in Skype client for videoconferencing, the ability to use voice commands and gestures to navigate the console's user interface, cloud computing, the ability to automatically record and share video highlights from gameplay, and support for live streaming gameplay online. How many of these things would help improve the way games play? It just sounds like upgrades for a new computer. I'm not going to buy a new console at $500 just so I can use voice commands to boot up a game, or so I can Skype with people, or upload gameplay videos to youtube or other video sites. I can already do that with my PC, not that I bother with that either. Also, when we personally buy new computers they tend to be used regularly for about 10 years before they're too old to be useable for daily use. Consoles are usually replaced every 5 years or so, it's just not worth spending so much on them.

There was a time when consoles were actually more suitable for games than PCs, back when Super Mario Bros came out side scrolling games of that quality weren't possible on home computers, it wasn't for a few years until Commander Keen pulled it off on the PC. Those days are long gone, computers are just as capable as consoles for playing games.

I was also a bit confused by the article that you posted, I assume you posted it to support your argument but the article actually supports my view.


To be honest, while hitting the £420 price of an Xbone is eminently possible, I’d recommend you spend just a little more on a games PC than that – it’ll last you longer, there’s more scope for upgrading later, games will look fancier and you won’t have to spend a week trawling price comparison sites. Either way, the idea that a beefy games PC costs thousands of dollars/pounds is an outdated and wildly inaccurate one.

[SparTonberry]

Didn't PS3 have a similarly terrible launch? I definitely recall buying my launch PS3 off of ebay for about £80 (roughly $120-130) cheaper than the RRP, and that was less than two weeks after launch. And come to think of it, wasn't the same person- Phil Harrison- responsible for both the PS3 and the Bone's launch?

Yeah. $600 console = only hardcore PS fanboys buy it = few games get made for it = more games still get made for PS2
(and the Wii hype probably drove into its sales potential as well)
Pretty sure interest didn't rise until around E3 2008, when Sony cut the price to $400, which is probably about the limit for a mass-market price.

[Bojay1997]

That's exactly what I was getting at. If consoles are the same price point as a PC, you might as well just buy a PC which has less limitations with how you use it. :)


My argument was that as a casual consumer, it doesn't seem like a good deal to spend more than $300 on a console. Since the current Wii U released at $299.99, it's more than just possible for consoles to be released at that price point. If a console was $500 today, I would spend a bit more to buy a new PC and stick to that. At least when there doesn't appear to be any exclusive games that look like must own titles. Consoles aren't even just for playing games anymore, they're like media players for streaming video. Any PC can do that too. Just reading up on the "benefits" of this Xbox One console, it includes a built-in Skype client for videoconferencing, the ability to use voice commands and gestures to navigate the console's user interface, cloud computing, the ability to automatically record and share video highlights from gameplay, and support for live streaming gameplay online. How many of these things would help improve the way games play? It just sounds like upgrades for a new computer. I'm not going to buy a new console at $500 just so I can use voice commands to boot up a game, or so I can Skype with people, or upload gameplay videos to youtube or other video sites. I can already do that with my PC, not that I bother with that either. Also, when we personally buy new computers they tend to be used regularly for about 10 years before they're too old to be useable for daily use. Consoles are usually replaced every 5 years or so, it's just not worth spending so much on them.

There was a time when consoles were actually more suitable for games than PCs, back when Super Mario Bros came out side scrolling games of that quality weren't possible on home computers, it wasn't for a few years until Commander Keen pulled it off on the PC. Those days are long gone, computers are just as capable as consoles for playing games.

I was also a bit confused by the article that you posted, I assume you posted it to support your argument but the article actually supports my view.

Your argument is just silly. The WiiU hardware is well below the capabilities of the Xbox One or the PS4 hardware and in fact is only slightly more capable than the Xbox 360 or PS3. Considering those two consoles are 7+ years old and can be had for as little as $200 during the holidays and other sale periods, paying $300 for a WiiU seems downright expensive IMHO if you're just looking at cost and capabilities on the hardware side. It's like arguing that all cars should be priced the same as a Hyundai or a Scion just because those cheaper cars exist. Consumers don't make choices solely based on price, they also consider things like features, comfort, reliability, longevity, ease of use, capabilities, etc...The same goes for gaming hardware.

The reality is that gamers buy the WiiU because it has great exclusive games, not because it's $300 and therefore cheaper than a cheap PC. Gamers also know that Nintendo won't be selling their console games on a PC, at least not in the near future. The same is or will be true of the Xbox One and PS4. Many gamers like the reliability and seamless support for gaming that a console provides. You don't have to worry about upgrading the graphics card every 2-3 years and you don't have to worry about hardware or software incompatibility or what operating system you run or what drivers are installed, etc...I say this as a long-time PC gamer and someone who actually has a fairly recent gaming PC. Frankly, a $500 gaming PC is not going to be able to run most FPS or graphics intensive games in 3-5 years while at least in the previous generation, Microsoft and Sony were just hitting their stride at five years and seem likely to support the 360 and PS3 for at least a couple more years with AAA releases, making the lifespan of the past generation probably a decade.

[stardust4ever]

Take it to Gamestop and get a quote on it. It'll make the Craigslist prices look like a steal in comparison. I'm more than happy owning a Wii-U and an Ouya this generation.

[Gameguy]

Your argument is just silly. The WiiU hardware is well below the capabilities of the Xbox One or the PS4 hardware and in fact is only slightly more capable than the Xbox 360 or PS3.

The reality is that gamers buy the WiiU because it has great exclusive games, not because it's $300 and therefore cheaper than a cheap PC.
What makes a good game? Does the hardware need to be at the same level as a current PC for the game to be fun or enjoyable? You basically answered that already with why people are buying the WiiU, it's the same reason why people would(or should) be buying a PS4 or Xbox One. I don't care about it performing as well as a current PC, I just want a console to have good games and for it to be easy to use. Of course every new console expects you to have it connected to the internet for game updates, firmware updates, and other PC type annoyances.

Even with that said, I'll admit that current sales of the WiiU are actually pretty lacking. It's not flying off the shelves, though sales for all current consoles are still slow.


I've played PC games for awhile, not really that much recently but all I cared about was if my PC met the minimum requirements necessary to play the game. I never cared that much about maxing out the settings whenever possible. I bought games that would run on the PC that I already owned, it wasn't the other way around for me. I'm more into older consoles so it's not about graphics. Since we're using recent computers anyway, I might as well be playing games on them too. No need to get a new console. If my PC was too old to play current games, and I had to choose between a new console or a new PC, with the prices being so high I might as well spend an extra $100 or $200 and just get a new PC. I would need a current PC just to get the most out of the internet, I can just buy a console years later and catch up on those games at some other point if they're exclusive. I'm actually just starting to get into Gamecube games, just in the last few years.

Plus with graphics, they've basically peaked. It's not like the difference between 8bit and 16bit, or 16bit and 32 or 64bit. It's better, but just slightly better. It's not like game developers are stuck with poor games just because of hardware limitations anymore.

[bb_hood]

Consumers don't make choices solely based on price,

I think when choosing between expensive consoles price ultimately doesnt factor in much. People generally know what they want. Sales probably will encourage people to 'buy now' rather than later but wont convince someone to buy if they are not at least thinking about buying a console. I cant see someone buying a wiiu over a ps4 or xbone just because its cheaper.

I also think the 'value' you get out of a console depends on how much you use the damn thing. If you were to buy any system and play it on a regular basis for years then its justifiable. Many people drop $$$ on a system and a few games, play it for a few months then put it on CL or sell it to gamestop. Total waste, like dropping 4-600$ to play games for a few months is just a bad deal. Many people have this mentality that they have to get what is newest and 'best' and everything that came before is sub-par. I hate people like that.

Plus there is not much difference in hardware capability when you compare this generation of consoles to the previous one. The ps3 does so much that the ps2 cant even begin to handle, but the ps4 doesn't seem like a huge step up from the ps3. I feel like this generation of consoles were released way too soon. Even considering how long the wii and ps3 have been out, it just seems like the new consoles improved the graphics, and thats it. I cant justify spending 200-500$ if all im getting is just better graphics, especially when the release games are lackluster. And who cares if you can watch TV on the xbone.

[Mayhem]

In answer to the topic question, yes. In the UK, the price of the N64 was cut from £250 to £150 after two months, that's a 40% drop.

[Tanooki]

Sad this got derailed into a cost of a PC vs a console argument as this isn't what the thread was over. That said price is a big concern once you leave the realm of the console fanboy and technophiles. Few in their right mind would rush out and drop $400, $500, $600+ on a system with no games and just the crap in the box. Sony learned this super well with the $600 PS3 that didn't sell for shit until it came off that $200 and then it picked up steam like crazy with all the unique properties Sony owns (much like NIntendo) with many diverse games so it overcame the 360 in time (much like how Genesis started first and then SNES creamed it in later years.) The thing is MS is copying Sony's stupidity in arrogance and price, but unlike Sony not offering up anything you can't get on a medium capable computer (Titanfall) to make it worthwhile short of being a MS fanboy, or a willing technophile who has to have it all and can wait for the few MS exclusives they make. At that point damn right a PC looks better, and even a middling one for little over the expense of the One, can do more and is open to a couple hundred dollar video card upgrade down the line to blow it away -- and this thing can do more than games and xbl gimmies as it's a PC.

The thing is this argument was about the One being flogged on the resale market. NOt even the WiiU was that beaten down after launch to dump machines at such a loss and while it did, it wasn't that steep and came more in a trickle as the months went by and more third parties threw Nintendo under the bus with their horseshit about systems before games which is unheard of in new console releases. Nintendo staved off the percentage bleed lowering the system price, and effectively lowering it a lot more with bundles if you intended to buy the games (like the $250 WiiU with $90 in Super Mario U/Luigi U) throw in the box on an actual disc making the Wii U a whopping $190.)

Consumers do base purchases on price, the majority do at least, which is why people don't in general all rush off like idiots and pay day one pricing on a system and a good many wait on that first or even second price drop a year or two in on average because they can save a heap and have a ready library of choice instead of waiting on it. I did it with PS3, got one when Circuit City failed for $400 tax included out the door with 3 games and component cables too having saved like 30-40% on it all. I wanted it but waited on a price I'd pay (300 on the system) and it suited me just fine. With my Wii up for sale now since that thing went down in embarassing flames it is my only system for that generation now.

[Zap!]

The whole three companies monopoly of the past dozen plus years or so just needs to end. One of those companies needs to go (hopefully not Nintendo), and a new one needs to step in (and no, Ouya doesn't count).

[Rickstilwell1]

A lot of people will look at this situation, and they will just say something like.... "Well that's just the normal Early Adopter Tax.. If you're an early adopter, you always get screwed".



Yeah I sure don't feel screwed for purchasing a brand new $499 60 GB PS3 during it's first price drop the summer after it came out with all the bells and whistles they removed later on. At the time the nearly full BC was awesome, it eliminated the need for buying and managing PS1 & PS2 memory cards anymore. Instead I could assign each individual game to a separate digital card that cost me nothing and know what's on it by its title. Then lots of great PS3 games eventually came out. If mine died on me nowadays it wouldn't kill me because I could get a slim or super slim for cheap by then, as I have a PS1 and PS2, but at the time the BC and nearly infinite memory cards for old systems, plus wireless controller made it the most convenient way to play classic Playstation and Playstation 2 games.

The thing with the Xbox One and PS4 is that there is no legacy support to use as an incentive to buy. I think the Xbox problems of the past and the bad DRM idea made the new one less desirable and because of the improvements made in the PS3 library from 2008 to date, people are thinking that the PS4 won't let them down after all.

And oh yeah, I will probably buy a Wii U before the other consoles because it costs less and I still want to play those Mario games.

[synbiosfan]

The whole three companies monopoly of the past dozen plus years or so just needs to end. One of those companies needs to go (hopefully not Nintendo), and a new one needs to step in (and no, Ouya doesn't count).

I could see Nintendo going handheld only if their next console attempt isn't a huge success. I can't see them getting out of video games anytime soon.

[Tanooki]

Nintendo won't bail but I"ve been talking about this for awhile with a few people usually of decent cred on such matters and I can see with the way Nintendo of consoles is going and Nintendo of handhelds going, if they need one more reality check failure on a home system, they'll go towards aping the designs of Ouya, Amazon, Madcatz and specifically the Neo-Geo X design.

Create a very potent handheld in the up to $300 range in price, but taking the playbook of Tommo and not fucking it up, create a TV docking system or a transmission box (Wii U with the guts moved to the tablet mostly) for your home entertainment system. Imagine a thing as juicy as a PS3 or so in your hands, but then it can be docked to a system with a wireless bluetooth controller, or it's a transmission box taking inputs off the handheld itself and casting that to the TV. You can put yourself in your own true niche market because your handheld and your console are one in the same. Don't like playing on a handheld but like the games, no big deal, or the other way around. Just dock the thing or never use the dock and you're covered. No longer wishing Zelda Link Between Worlds was a Wii U game or that Pikmin 3 wasn't on a handheld. Just one system, power is in your palms, and then a secondary device that docks it to use a controller or is a receiver to cast a 720p or better image to the TV it's plugged into. Games, those can either asininely be straight to the system in storage as some of these jerks want to go to for control reasons, or the next size up in evolution off the 3DS game cards which get into many GB in size.

Sure you wouldn't get a damn thing ported to it from what Sony and MS has, but that hasn't harmed 3DS not getting what the Vita does or DS vs the PSP. Nintendo owns the handheld market and has a brain with that department to keep it in control, so it would make sense to merge the two and just flip the bird to the third parties, media infants and hater game players wishing them dead on consoles. Just remove the problem from the equation.

[Gameguy]

Sad this got derailed into a cost of a PC vs a console argument as this isn't what the thread was over.
That wasn't my intention. My main point was that consumers are more comfortable around the $300 price point for consoles. The part about PCs was just one possible explanation why consoles are harder to sell around the $500-$600 price point.

There was an earlier mention about the 3DO dropping heavily in price. It might have actually sold well at their original price if there wasn't as much competition at the time. At that time there was also the SNES, Genesis, TurboGrafx, CD-i, and Neo Geo to compete with. At the time of the 3DO's launch all of those were already available and pretty much established, and several were priced way cheaper with plenty of good games already available for those platforms. The 3DO still stuck around after the PS1 launched, and died before the N64 launched.

It's not like with today's problems with the Xbox One. There's only two other consoles to compete with, it doesn't have the same excuse.


The thing is this argument was about the One being flogged on the resale market. NOt even the WiiU was that beaten down after launch to dump machines at such a loss.....
Used Xbox One consoles are selling around $300-$350 used. Seems in line with what I was saying about console prices and what consumers are comfortable with. The Wii U already started around $300-$350 new, there's not much to go lower to stay around that price for used consoles, not when comparing it to the drop needed for higher priced consoles.


In answer to the topic question, yes. In the UK, the price of the N64 was cut from £250 to £150 after two months, that's a 40% drop.
£250 would have been quite a bit back in 1997. Just looking at historical exchange rates from back then, two months after launch, that would have been equivalent to over $400 US or over $560 Canadian.


Create a very potent handheld in the up to $300 range in price, but taking the playbook of Tommo and not fucking it up, create a TV docking system or a transmission box (Wii U with the guts moved to the tablet mostly) for your home entertainment system. Imagine a thing as juicy as a PS3 or so in your hands, but then it can be docked to a system with a wireless bluetooth controller, or it's a transmission box taking inputs off the handheld itself and casting that to the TV. You can put yourself in your own true niche market because your handheld and your console are one in the same. Don't like playing on a handheld but like the games, no big deal, or the other way around. Just dock the thing or never use the dock and you're covered. No longer wishing Zelda Link Between Worlds was a Wii U game or that Pikmin 3 wasn't on a handheld. Just one system, power is in your palms, and then a secondary device that docks it to use a controller or is a receiver to cast a 720p or better image to the TV it's plugged into. Games, those can either asininely be straight to the system in storage as some of these jerks want to go to for control reasons, or the next size up in evolution off the 3DS game cards which get into many GB in size.
So just create a modern equivalent to the Sega Nomad or TurboExpress? It could work. I'd be happy enough with a new portable, connecting it to the TV would just be a bonus.

[Mr Mort]

Wow. Call me crazy, but judging any console based on its "resale value" is inane.

Last time I checked, people purchased consoles to play games. Not to turn around and sell them while expecting a return. We're not talking about cars here, we're talking about video games.

I couldn't give a shit about the "resale value" of my games or hardware because I like to play video games, instead of worrying about depreciation (or appreciation).

Times have changed I guess, I just can't see how anyone can treat video games as an investment. It didn't used to be that way. Some of the attitudes towards gaming these days are really sad and miss the whole point of gaming - enjoyment.

[WCP]

Wow. Call me crazy, but judging any console based on its "resale value" is inane.

Last time I checked, people purchased consoles to play games. Not to turn around and sell them while expecting a return. We're not talking about cars here, we're talking about video games.

I couldn't give a shit about the "resale value" of my games or hardware because I like to play video games, instead of worrying about depreciation (or appreciation).

Times have changed I guess, I just can't see how anyone can treat video games as an investment. It didn't used to be that way. Some of the attitudes towards gaming these days are really sad and miss the whole point of gaming - enjoyment.

Look, obviously video gaming isn't a wise investment. We all know that our $59.99 game purchase (which is usually about $65 after tax), is worth about $45 the second we remove the shrink wrap. The value just continues to plummet from there.

However, on the hardware side, obviously a used system will always sell less than a brand new one, but still, I've never seen it like this. It's not like I need to sell my Xbox One or something, and this is really hurting me financially. This isn't the case. I'm not really being affected by it in any direct way, because I know at some point I'm going to want a Xbox One, so might as well have one now... right ? ( at least that's what I tell myself to go to sleep at night... jk)

Still, this is one of those times when I wish I wasn't such a hardcore early adopter type. Early Adopters always get screwed to some degree, but this one takes the cake. If somebody right now was interested in jumping on the Xbox One bandwagon, for $350 cash straight up, they can probably get the unit with everything normally included, and even a game or two thrown in, or possibly an extra controller. That's pretty amazing when you think about us suckers that paid well over $500 with tax and everything, and we didn't get any extra games or anything.

I guess it's just a case of buyers remorse. I just wish I waited about 6 months before buying it. Could have saved myself a nice $200 or more. Oh well, shizznit happens.

[Gameguy]

I just don't like feeling like I'm pissing away money. It's why I usually wait until I can find a console at a yard sale before I buy one.

For other people it could be something more practical. If someone buys a console but is always tight on cash, thinking about how much you could recoup a few months later could be something to consider. For whatever reason, it seems like a large chunk of people who buy games new at release either sells or trades them in soon afterwards.

[BlastProcessing402]

The Saturn dropped a hundred dollars in price between May when it launched and September when they had to compete with the PSX. I'm still mildly pissed about that. Oh, take a free Virtual Fighter Remix, yeah, that makes it all up to me...

But I'm feeling much better now!

[Mr Mort]

The Saturn dropped a hundred dollars in price between May when it launched and September when they had to compete with the PSX. I'm still mildly pissed about that. Oh, take a free Virtual Fighter Remix, yeah, that makes it all up to me...

But I'm feeling much better now!

This is is part of what I'm talking about. I get it. You buy the console, it then drops in price and you feel cheated. I understand the sentiment.

But it's not like this is a surprise. We all knew then and know now, that when a console is released, there will be a price drop. Why get miffed over it? Either wait until the price drops to a point you're ok with or just buy it now and enjoy it.

I was in the exact same position with the Saturn. I bought it at launch for $400, and it then dropped in price a month or so later. I wasn't upset in the least, and I've never regretted that decision. I played and enjoyed that Saturn so damn much, that I felt like I got more than my money's worth.

My point is that getting hung up on price drops and the value of your stuff is a waste of time, you can't see the forest for the trees. If you want to get your money's worth, enjoy the games. That is really the whole point of gaming, is it not?

[Tanooki]

The Saturn dropped a hundred dollars in price between May when it launched and September when they had to compete with the PSX. I'm still mildly pissed about that. Oh, take a free Virtual Fighter Remix, yeah, that makes it all up to me...

But I'm feeling much better now!

Combine that with their asinine scorched earth policy on all their past hardware that still was raking them in good money (Game Gear and Genesis) and is it any wonder why they get little respect anymore? That Sega games throughout the life of ebay have gotten junk in value compared to Nintendo, Sony and others except on certain titles amounting to just a few percent of the pie. And that Sega has enough trouble moving their games on compilation packs and those atgames systems. That's what Sega is reduced to and had they not infuriated all their 8/16bit fans except for the most forgiving and diehard types.


The thing is though this Saturn item isn't a good comparison, the 3DS would be the closest with the $70 price drop to the Saturn. MS hasn't lowered the price, but the resale value on it still while it is at $500 is like a 40-45% cut in value and that's wretched at best. The thing is blastprocessing is right there, whatever the price, are you enjoying the games it does have to get a value from it?

I never once felt completely burned by the 3DS drop. I was a bit annoyed, but when they announced a greater value in free download games that would remain (still) exclusive I was fine with it while I know many others were not. Look what they charge for GBA games on the WiiU now, and times that by 10 on the GBA "Freebie" because at least they did some justice unlike Saturn with the VF throw away. :D

[Gamevet]

Combine that with their asinine scorched earth policy on all their past hardware that still was raking them in good money (Game Gear and Genesis) and is it any wonder why they get little respect anymore? That Sega games throughout the life of ebay have gotten junk in value compared to Nintendo, Sony and others except on certain titles amounting to just a few percent of the pie. And that Sega has enough trouble moving their games on compilation packs and those atgames systems. That's what Sega is reduced to and had they not infuriated all their 8/16bit fans except for the most forgiving and diehard types.


Saturn games hold their value very well and it has several titles that are quite expensive. There are several titles on the Sega CD that demand a somewhat hefty price as well.


Some of the Playstation's expensive titles have come down in price. You can now get Suikoden for less than $40 with a little shopping around.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PS1-PLAYSTATION-1-SUIKODEN-Ps1-Tested-And-Works-Great-/111332850645?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item19ebf47bd5

[Tanooki]

I said some titles do, but on the whole the Sega stuff is cheap as all get out to pick up. It hasn't got the raging pain in the ass bump Nintendo and TG16 has received. I'm not denying some titles are holding their value at least or near that, some over.

[Gamevet]

I said some titles do, but on the whole the Sega stuff is cheap as all get out to pick up. It hasn't got the raging pain in the ass bump Nintendo and TG16 has received. I'm not denying some titles are holding their value at least or near that, some over.

The odd thing is that Nintendo's own titles demand such excessive prices, even though a lot of those titles have a lot of copies out in the wild. Sega's titles don't seem to demand such a high price on the market, and that is somewhat weird. The 3rd party titles, between the two, seem to match up well in pricing though.

[Tanooki]

Very true, and Sega is to blame, not their third parties. Funny how that works out.

[Robocop2]

Probably at least a supply/demand situation too though.
I go to almost any store and there are Xbox 1's right there for you to pick up new. PS4's eh not so much. That's real hit/miss from my general looking around.
I like my XB1 but it doesn't get a lot of play time lately. Though that's World of Tanks 360's fault not its. Very much looking forward to Wolfenstein the New Order.
Used consoles usually take a hit and asking someone 400+ for a readily available new console seems a bit of a stretch to me. Especially considering the great press the 360 got over the RROD. Some people are genuinely leery of a used console.