At Games Colecovision, Intellivision, 2600 Flashbacks Pre-order

[The Dord]

Alright, Colecovision Flashback is out and uh... it's okay... I suppose... it mostly works correctly.



That's sad to hear, so Sega Genesis controllers are a no go too? :puppydogeyes:

[InsaneDavid]

That's sad to hear, so Sega Genesis controllers are a no go too? :puppydogeyes:

Nope, do not work.

[Leo_A]

That works as expected but I think there are a couple games where you still have to decide your options with the first controller. I know the games that give you the standard blue Colecovision options screen will allow you to decide the game option with the second controller.

Yeah, 3rd party titles are problematic in this regard.

But for 1st party, arcade style action, it's a much appreciated option.

[spman]

Anyone know why Toejam and Earl 1 or 2 never appears on these things or any compilation disc that Sega puts out? It must be some sort of strange licensing agreements with the characters.

[nosweargamer]

Anyone know why Toejam and Earl 1 or 2 never appears on these things or any compilation disc that Sega puts out? It must be some sort of strange licensing agreements with the characters.

Yup. Sega doesn't own the rights, the creator does.

[bb_hood]

Alright, Colecovision Flashback is out and uh... it's okay... I suppose... it mostly works correctly.

Controller pinout is screwed up so you're stuck with the pack in controllers, which aren't all that great feeling. Most games run fine but some have missing or gimped sound. Overall sound is just a hair off but no big deal for most games. The Heist runs at half speed, which sucks.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCD-SgvrDz8

Excellent video, I enjoyed it. Yeah, considering the issues with the controllers I can say this is something I dont want. I was really hoping for a system that would let me play Mr. Do! without having to use a coleco controller or the super action controller.
And yeah those spinnaker games are bad. THey probably only included them to boost the number of 'games', if you can call them that.

[Melf]

I've checked TRU, Walmart, and Sam's, and I haven't seen any of these ANYWHERE. Are you sure Sept. 22 was the launch date? No one I've asked in-store has any idea what I'm talking about.

[InsaneDavid]

Excellent video, I enjoyed it. Yeah, considering the issues with the controllers I can say this is something I dont want. I was really hoping for a system that would let me play Mr. Do! without having to use a coleco controller or the super action controller.
And yeah those spinnaker games are bad. THey probably only included them to boost the number of 'games', if you can call them that.

Thanks! I would honestly be happier with a system that ran 30 good CV games with proper controller setup than this artificially inflated ho-hum attempt and reviving the brand. For what we got, it's not terrible, just disappointing.


I've checked TRU, Walmart, and Sam's, and I haven't seen any of these ANYWHERE. Are you sure Sept. 22 was the launch date? No one I've asked in-store has any idea what I'm talking about.

100% certain for TRU but not for other retailers. I know inventory showed up on the west coast stores before most other places. If you don't see them in the electronics department, check over in the board games area as this stuff ends up over there sometimes.

[Greg2600]

If you're in Puerto Rico, Melf, then the street date may not apply. Your country has 100 extra hurdles to selling goods, often delays retailers.

[megasdkirby]

If you're in Puerto Rico, Melf, then the street date may not apply. Your country has 100 extra hurdles to selling goods, often delays retailers.

It usually gets released on the same day, unless the store that is going to sell them has little or no interest in stocking it. For instance, Sears can bring a game well before street date if they know it will sell great (like they did with Destiny on all platforms and with the Playstation 4 console), but any other item or game will take time to arrive because the "high" interest is not there.

My guess is that some companies don't see this as a "Day One Must Have" purchase, so it will eventually arrive with other items on a cheaper rate. I checked Sam's in Rexville, Bayamon yesterday and it was not in stock either. My guess is that it will arrive later next week.

[dgdgagdae]

Thanks for the review, David. I was looking forward to picking this up, since I probably will never bother trying to buy a ColecoVision. After seeing what you had to say about the controllers, maybe I'll wait to see if it eventually goes on clearance somewhere.

I heard what you said about the Intellivision Flashback. I checked YouTube, and I can't find any reviews of that one. Sounds like it's well built, but I'd really like to know if the controllers are the same size as the original controllers. As in, can they take originally sized overlays? The fact that the CV Flashback can't makes me wonder.

[InsaneDavid]

Thanks for the review, David. I was looking forward to picking this up, since I probably will never bother trying to buy a ColecoVision. After seeing what you had to say about the controllers, maybe I'll wait to see if it eventually goes on clearance somewhere.

I heard what you said about the Intellivision Flashback. I checked YouTube, and I can't find any reviews of that one. Sounds like it's well built, but I'd really like to know if the controllers are the same size as the original controllers. As in, can they take originally sized overlays? The fact that the CV Flashback can't makes me wonder.

Thanks. The system is still fun and the performance is decent but yeah, there are definitely some issues at hand. The fire buttons also seem to be swapped, as mentioned. Interestingly the control descriptions in the included documentation still mark left and right fire button functions properly so there must have been a pretty big disconnect within AtGames when it came to product testing.

I haven't played a ton of Intellivision in my time but the controllers felt properly sized when I was handling them. I can't see dropping $40 on it but if I'm able to find some kind of a discount coupon or the like to get it down to $30, I'll give it a shot.

[bb_hood]

Im not a fan of the original coleco controller to begin with, its a shame that you cant use anything other than the one it comes with.
This seems like the type of item that Ill probably find at salvation army for 6$ used.

If they had put in just a little more effort this could have been much better than it apparently turned out to be.

[Steve W]

This seems like the type of item that Ill probably find at salvation army for 6$ used.

I've bought a bunch of plug-and-plays including Atari Flashbacks of various models like that, for me it's the best way. It's kind of a bummer to pay full price for the Atari Flashback 1 only to play a bunch of badly programmed games on what is essentially a Famicom clone. If you have doubts, just wait for it to show up in a thrift after Christmas. I wish I would have waited for a year or two when the Intellivision 25-in-1 plug-and-play came out several years ago, I bought it immediately and wished I hadn't.


Has anybody worked out what the screwy pinout is on the Coleco Flashback? It would be nice if all I had to do to get an original Colecovision controller working on it was to make some kind of jumper box to correct the pin configuration.

[dgdgagdae]

I wish I would have waited for a year or two when the Intellivision 25-in-1 plug-and-play came out several years ago, I bought it immediately and wished I hadn't.

That thing was so unbelievably bad. I got it as a Christmas gift, and what a waste of a gift it was.

[Melf]

My guess is that some companies don't see this as a "Day One Must Have" purchase, so it will eventually arrive with other items on a cheaper rate. I checked Sam's in Rexville, Bayamon yesterday and it was not in stock either. My guess is that it will arrive later next week.

This is what I was thinking. It will probably just sneak into stores eventually. It's something that will sell, but it's not considered a must have, day 1 item, so that's why it's not in stock yet.

[kaedesdisciple]

I just picked up one of the Colecovisions last night and I had tempered my expectations having played with a few of these before. I sat on my living room floor this morning, hooked it all up, pressed the power button and had my WTF moment before one minute had passed: how do I navigate the damn menu? It was like I had controllers that were already broken like the days of old before I even touched them since I had to press with some serious force to get them to kinda move in any direction, and the fire buttons only worked about 70% of the time. I was able to get into the games, but I wound up dying every 5 seconds because I could only mash the controller to get anything to move so far before getting unintentionally hit with something else.

The picture is good and the sound is okay, but I can't control it? Complete and utter failure, very disappointed. I think I'ma go bust out my real Colecovision.

[Leo_A]

That doesn't sound right, I recommend returning it for a replacement.

[josekortez]

FYI, I saw all three systems (Genesis, Atari and Colecovision) for sale at Dollar General yesterday along with the handheld Sega. The Colecovision box said that it was a Dollar General exclusive. All of the systems I mentioned here were $40 each. I would caution everyone to wait until Thanksgiving Day or Black Friday before buying, however, since I bought the Sega handheld on sale at Dollar General last year. The best thing about the Colecovision system is that it includes Antarctic Adventure as a bonus game. If you've played this classic game, you already know how much fun it is.

[Atarileaf]

Excellent video, I enjoyed it. Yeah, considering the issues with the controllers I can say this is something I dont want. I was really hoping for a system that would let me play Mr. Do! without having to use a coleco controller or the super action controller.
And yeah those spinnaker games are bad. THey probably only included them to boost the number of 'games', if you can call them that.

Just use a Genesis pad on a real CV, that's how I play Mr. Do

If this At Games product did allow for swapping in a genny controller I might be interested but using those stock controllers makes this a dud for me. I wouldn't own a real CV if I had to use those stock controllers and it's the reason I don't own an Intellivision. Can't stand this "phone pad" fad in the early/mid 80's with the CV, INTV, and 5200.

[Greg2600]

To further complicate, Walmart are selling an Atari Flashback 5 with WIRED controllers.

http://www.atariage.com/forums/gallery_ips/gallery/album_859/gallery_27577_859_150559.jpg

[bb_hood]

Just use a Genesis pad on a real CV, that's how I play Mr. Do



Nah, if I remember correctly, the genesis pad doesnt work with Mr. do.. the d-pad controls dont line up and one of the diagonal down buttons pauses the game. So it does work but you have to unpause the game every 10 seconds. Ive had to use the super action controller in the past to enjoy mr. do on coleco.

[Atarileaf]

Nah, if I remember correctly, the genesis pad doesnt work with Mr. do.. the d-pad controls dont line up and one of the diagonal down buttons pauses the game. So it does work but you have to unpause the game every 10 seconds. Ive had to use the super action controller in the past to enjoy mr. do on coleco.

Hmmm, maybe it's because I have a modded genesis controller. Got one years ago from a fellow on youtube who does great modding work. I never had an issue with Mr. Do. I'll have to try a regular genesis controller then.

Also, wouldn't a standard atari joystick work? Mr. Do is a one button game anyway. Just use a cv joystick in port 2 to select the game and use the joystick to play the game.

[bb_hood]

Hmmm, maybe it's because I have a modded genesis controller. Got one years ago from a fellow on youtube who does great modding work. I never had an issue with Mr. Do. I'll have to try a regular genesis controller then.

Also, wouldn't a standard atari joystick work? Mr. Do is a one button game anyway. Just use a cv joystick in port 2 to select the game and use the joystick to play the game.

I no longer have a coleco to play mr. do!... I remember being very annoyed that I couldnt use the regular genesis controller. I remember having the same problem with a few other coleco games as well, one of the d-pad directions triggers the pause.
An atari joystick might work, I dont remember having tried one of those.

[Atarileaf]

I no longer have a coleco to play mr. do!... I remember being very annoyed that I couldnt use the regular genesis controller. I remember having the same problem with a few other coleco games as well, one of the d-pad directions triggers the pause.
An atari joystick might work, I dont remember having tried one of those.

I checked some threads on atariage where it was mentioned that a standard joystick would work. I'll have to break out my CV and give it a try.

[Leo_A]

Does the controller in port 2 on the Colecovision Flashback do anything in single player games?

I know they screwed things up so it won't be a plug and play, but it might be worth modifying a wired AtGames Atari joystick to keep plugged into the second controller port for games like Pepper II if this old trick still works. I know it's not an easy thing to get one of these Colecovision Flashback controllers working on the real deal (Unlike with the Intellivison version where a simple adapter has made these new controllers compatible), but I bet the troubles are mostly keypad related.

Getting an Atari joystick working might just be an easy rewiring job to change its pinout.


To further complicate, Walmart are selling an Atari Flashback 5 with WIRED controllers.

I wish the Sam's Club special edition had this along with its paddles.

But alas, if I want wired paddles which I do want (It's largely why I'm bothering with the FB5), I'm stuck with two more of these FB4/5 wireless joysticks.

[Steve W]

My Kroger got in a case of Atari Flashback 5 consoles. I'm probably not going to bother, since I already have 1 through 4. I noticed mostly the same games again, although the M-Network line seems to be new. Too bad there's still all that dead weight left behind, like Sky Diver and Slot Racers. I'd happily give all those crappy early release titles up for a few more quality titles. Hell, I'd even go for Data Age games over stuff like Golf. And that's saying something.

[Tanooki]

I know it'll never happen again but if they did a model that could be opened up and have a real cart slot soldered to it I'd jump in. If not for that, if they'd make one that ran all those fun licensed arcade games Atari didn't own back in the day that were on carts I'd be more interested too. The Coleco system has some nice arcade titles going for it so I know it's not impossible outside of a stubborn owner (like Mario Bros/DK - Nintendo won't happen.)

[Flojomojo]

AtGames supports SD cards in the Sega Genesis "flashback"-like portable console and there's a plug-in SD cartridge for the TV version. I think there's still hope for ROMs on these someday...in a later version.

[Bill Loguidice]

AtGames supports SD cards in the Sega Genesis "flashback"-like portable console and there's a plug-in SD cartridge for the TV version. I think there's still hope for ROMs on these someday...in a later version.

It's ultimately up to the licensing companies to allow it. Sega is liberal with that, obviously, while other companies like Atari, Intellivision Productions, Coleco Holdings, etc., may not be so willing. The other issue of course is that while the Sega products are Genesis-on-a-chip, the other products are software emulation on generic ARM chips. In those cases, broader compatibility is a greater issue.

[Greg2600]

It's becoming clearer to me that, right or wrong, these Flashback products need to be produced as cheap as possible, and can only succeed for AtGames if they are swiped up by enough stocking stuffer-ers. They did a lot to be authentic to the originals, but the myriad of complaints from collectors all over the web prove that whatever they make won't satisfy them. If they were produced for "collectors," they wouldn't make money and thus wouldn't have been made. Yet at the end of the day, sales and promotion are going to be driven by collectors. If enough notable ones bitch, their followers won't buy them. Reminds me a ton of the Transformers G1 toy reproduction/reissue craze of the last 10 years.

[Tanooki]

Atari would be a cold day in hell, the current owner is this uptight prick frenchman who has an insipid greedy streak who will pitch fits like a five year old and screw with existing contracts if he feels he can steal another dime out of someones pocket once they started on a project. I can't due to NDAs be specific, but that dick has tried to screw with a few companies I'm aware of which I wish he'd be outed for. Anything with an Atari property on it you can count on SD-card backdoor emulation not happening as he's the true anti-Sega on this stuff.

I just wish AT Games wasn't so damned lazy, 3 revisions of their Genesis handheld and they refuse to make any upgrades to the software other than getting Super SF2 and Mega Man Wily Wars working on the latest. Yet MM among many other games are worthless since they use a battery to save and they refuse to add battery saving to the SD card which is unforgivable. I'd own that thing, but I can't see beyond paying $20 for something like that due to that garbage. What's worse, the home system that takes carts, it's broken too, it won't even allow a legit game to update its save file either if you select save in game!

[Leo_A]

What's worse, the home system that takes carts, it's broken too, it won't even allow a legit game to update its save file either if you select save in game!

Where'd you see that? Someone mentioned this at AtariAge, but I just figured they had it confused with the SD card issue when running roms that originally had onboard saving capabilities.

I'm surprised that their Genesis on a chip could even break that functionality.

[Tanooki]

I know we did discuss it over at NA/SA at some point in the past. I owned the 2nd release of the handheld and it pissed me off I couldn't play Phantasy Star because of the battery issue so in time I sold it. When the 3rd one came out along side of the cart taking Genesis emulator clone I did research again, and learned those lazy tools at ATGames did NOTHING but to tweak the code enough to run SuperSF2 and MMWW and that's it. I found web based reports of consumers buying and reviewing it and both in print and youtube showing the stupid thing still did not save games, and that the same firmware was placed into the cart taking home system and had the same results. Eventually some people (NA/Web? I don't remember) emailed them and in some less than stellar english response it does not save.

I Just can't even begin to understand how you so poorly code something like that it won't even allow a legit game to save to its own save chip. It's so badly done it straight up cock blocks a legit cartridge from functioning correctly.

There's a highlighted best of (first listed) review on amazon that has a section talking down the Genesis clone for not saving.
http://www.amazon.com/AtGames-Genesis-Classic-Not-Machine-Specific/product-reviews/B0094H8H7I

Other reviewers elsewhere say the same thing: http://generationz.jfbs.net/index.php?showtopic=2512

The AT Games clone can read a save file fine from a game, but it can not save back to the cart. While writing this I emailed ATGames to ask if they had a 4th handheld or 3rd console coming that would have saving because I want their system and won't buy it until they add it.

[Steve W]

the current owner is this uptight prick frenchman who has an insipid greedy streak who will pitch fits like a five year old and screw with existing contracts if he feels he can steal another dime out of someones pocket once they started on a project.
Are you sure it's not still run by the Tramiels? It sounds just like them!

[BydoEmpire]

I picked up the Inty and Colecovision flashbacks, and even though I have both original consoles I'm really happy with the Flashbacks. The controllers are awesome. Selection of games is good - of course it's not perfect, but still a lot to play and enjoy. Emulation is solid. The design of the consoles is great.

I'm not generally a big fan of emulation, but most of that is for two reasons: 1) I want to play with the original controllers and 2) I want to play it on my TV, where IMHO the games look best (and most nostalgic). The new Flashbacks address both of those. I think they did a great job.

Of course there are things that would be nice to have (save states, etc), but for the price point they're great units.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

How many of these can they really expect to sell..? I would have thought anyone who wanted an Atari Flashback would have one by now, and the fans of the Intellivision and Colecovision are surely dwindling?

Clicking through reveals that the actual Colecovision console is a much sleeker design than what is pictured on the box, which is good, as I can't imagine that old behemoth as making much sense from either a sales or manufacturing position. But weren't the Intellivision's controllers always resoundingly unpopular?

Don't knock the Colecovision, that things badass, and has probably the best looking games of its time. I love mine and probably wouldn't prefer a flashback to it since you can replace the controller with an Atari 2600 joystick, which work better.

I do agree people have kind of started to lose interest in anything pre-Nintendo. In some groups. The 22 year old retro gamer isn't gonna care about Yar's Revenge or Dig Dug, he's gonna wanna play Super Mario RPG and Star Fox. Traditionally, anyway. These systems will always spark interest in some people, and always remain collectable.

Speaking of which, anyone want to sell me an Intellivision?

[Tanooki]

If anyone has a Meijer (www.meijer.com) near them up through the 27th they have the Intellivision, Atari #5, Coleco and that shoddy Genesis that takes carts all for $40 on sale down from $55. I never really looked into what they retail for so it's either a nice deal or they inflated the price to only give somewhat of an ok deal on it. I'm guessing it either really is $15 off or an inflated $10 off, but still a discount is a discount. I was tempted by the coleco one a bit but then realized looking at the back most of the coleco games I loved to pound away at on an emulator in the mid later 90s just weren't there unfortunately. :\

I hoped they would have had the portable Genesis at the same price cut but they didn't carry it.

[Leo_A]

Nothing special about the $40 price. That's pretty much their unofficial MSRP...

[megasdkirby]

$30 at Amazon right now. If you have Prime, shipping is free.

AND THEY SHIPPED TO PR!!! So I was able to snag one. :)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NM9R6GW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Leo_A]

I went to Dollar General today and was their only customer when they opened at 7. Got both the Coleco and Intellivision models for $28 each.

Going the Sam's Club route for the Atari Flashback 5 for the paddles. Otherwise, I'd probably just skip it.

[Greg2600]

I went to Dollar General today and was their only customer when they opened at 7. Got both the Coleco and Intellivision models for $28 each.

Going the Sam's Club route for the Atari Flashback 5 for the paddles. Otherwise, I'd probably just skip it.

I ordered the DG INTV, CV, ATARI online (pretty near free shipping) at $28 per. I had them already at $40 from a couple weeks ago, which I will return next week as soon as these arrive. Need to make sure I get the best conditioned box!

Leo, I've seen the picture of that paddle version, but is it being sold yet? The Sam's/Walmart's near me have yet to carry ANY Flashbacks.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/p296x100/10421360_339815422856045_3997129898203278971_n.jpg ?oh=bf63809f70bcf6843329c1ec2624f343&oe=551AF1AF&__gda__=1428152991_8118d23e4db4badd4fd61932c6ff7bb 4

PS: I'm hearing that Intellivision Productions are going to be selling a FULL set of Overlays for the INTV FB soon.

[Leo_A]

It's pretty hit or miss, but folks have been finding the Sam's Club deluxe model with the paddles for most of November now. It all depends on your individual store and if they've actually put their stock out on the shelves. Hopefully I'll have some luck in a few days when I go searching.

And I also haven't seen any Flashbacks at my local Wal-Mart. But they're not the most desirable place to purchase them from, although the wired Atari joysticks that the Wal-Mart SKU includes are more desirable than the wireless IR based joysticks every other Flashback 5 SKU offers.

But as I see it, I'm basically buying a $40 brand new set of Atari paddles since the few game additions from the Flashback 4 don't thrill me in any way (And the hardware and emulator are confirmed as being identical to the last round). Plus, it loses one of the real highlights of the Atari Flashback line (and any 1st party 2600 compilation) thanks to them foolishly selling off the Battlezone IP.

The Flashback 3 and 4 (And I'm sure the FB64, although I don't own one of those) had numerous emulation issues with Battlezone, but it was still one of the best games in the lineup. So its loss stings since Atari's unlicensed 1st party 2600 library isn't overflowing with great games (And limit it to single player and/or joystick only games and the short list is cut even further).

[Greg2600]

Well, in terms of IP, the loss of Activision games since the FB2 is even more glaring. I have more need for joysticks than paddles. The old paddles are indestructible, and the jittering can be removed pretty easily.

[Leo_A]

I'm talking specifically about the Flashback 5. Pitfall and River Raid were gone even before the Flashback 2 line was laid to rest. And they were never owned by Atari, so it's not nearly as frustrating as letting Battlezone slip out of their hands and likely to oblivion was.

[dgdgagdae]

I had to hit 3 Dollar General stores in my area before I was able to find the Intellivision Flashback, although the second one I hit had the Coloecovision one. At the third store, both the CV and Inty Flashbacks were on a clearance table with 50% off post-it style notes on them. They didn't ring up at 50% off, and the store didn't want to honor it. They called the Store Manager at home, and she told them to honor it but to remove them from the half-off table. I really wasn't interested in the ColecoVision after watching David's review, but for $20, why not?

I've ordered the 50 sets of missing overlays from Intellivision Productions.

[Greg2600]

I had to hit 3 Dollar General stores in my area before I was able to find the Intellivision Flashback, although the second one I hit had the Coloecovision one. At the third store, both the CV and Inty Flashbacks were on a clearance table with 50% off post-it style notes on them. They didn't ring up at 50% off, and the store didn't want to honor it. They called the Store Manager at home, and she told them to honor it but to remove them from the half-off table. I really wasn't interested in the ColecoVision after watching David's review, but for $20, why not?

I've ordered the 50 sets of missing overlays from Intellivision Productions.

Yeah they were all down to $20 last week. Odds are the stores missing them probably had them in the back. DG aren't exactly the most attentive stockers.

[sloan]

I have yet to understand what keeps an unofficial NES Flashback from happening. Yes, Nintendo would not allow its IP onto this, but there were so many 3rd parties for NES that the game line-up would still be pretty good.

[Greg2600]

I have yet to understand what keeps an unofficial NES Flashback from happening. Yes, Nintendo would not allow its IP onto this, but there were so many 3rd parties for NES that the game line-up would still be pretty good.

There have been plenty NOAC (NES on a chip) units sold, but without licensed titles. I don't believe you can sell a unit with NES roms without Nintendo's permission, and they will never give it. Majesco released a NOAC based plug n play using Konami games, the Arcade Advanced. http://www.ilovethe80s.com/konami_classic.jpg The same games were part of the like-titled game on the Gameboy Advance. Probably the same roms. I just don't think Konami or Capcom wish to face Nintendo's ire for putting out a plug n play. In addition, I can't imagine the license fees on their games are cheap. Same for Nintendo published games. The plug n play would wind up being $80 or more!

There are those in the retail business who believe you shouldn't stretch/tarnish your brand. A Flashback would be "confusing" to the market, and detract from the Wii U and 3DS. Atari, Intellivision, Coleco, and Sega are essentially dead brands.

[sloan]

I can't see Konami, Capcom, Pony/Canyon, Bandai, Taito, HAL Labratories, Tecmo, etc. having any IP's from that era that they are too protective at the moment, and what ire from Nintendo? In fact, they would stand to profit from licensing their 8-bit games to a company like AtGames.

[PreZZ]

Nintendo is still in the hardware business no need to license to ATgames, they still make mini wii for 100$ with a controller, nunchuk and mariokart and still make a profit. Now imagine if they released a mini nes with real chips, a bunch of games included AND a modified wii OS to access the virtual console and buy new games. This would be huge and probably be so much profitable for nintendo.

[sloan]

I never said Nintendo would license anything to AtGames. It would be Pony/Canyon, Tecmo, Taito, Konami, etc. So many good games from those companies, leaving Nintendo IP out wouldn't hurt sales in the slightest.

[Greg2600]

I can't see Konami, Capcom, Pony/Canyon, Bandai, Taito, HAL Labratories, Tecmo, etc. having any IP's from that era that they are too protective at the moment, and what ire from Nintendo? In fact, they would stand to profit from licensing their 8-bit games to a company like AtGames.


I never said Nintendo would license anything to AtGames. It would be Pony/Canyon, Tecmo, Taito, Konami, etc. So many good games from those companies, leaving Nintendo IP out wouldn't hurt sales in the slightest.

I say again, I do not believe any NES rom can be "sold" without Nintendo's permission. i.e. I don't think they could sell NES Tecmo Bowl without Nintendo's agreement. When they produced these games on the NES, they signed agreements with Nintendo on licensing issues like this. Of course, that game would never be added because you'd have to pay the NFL licenses too! It's a mine field. Remember the Goldeneye/Rare fiasco? Microsoft was prevented from releasing an upgraded GE007 game on XBLA by Nintendo's lawyers. Even though they (Nintendo) did not have the Bond rights, or Rare rights, they still prevented it for exactly the same reason, it was an N64 game.

Even if Nintendo gave consent, games like Castlevania, Contra, Mega Man, Ninja Gaiden, etc., you know, the 3rd party games that would sell the unit, are going to be costly for the manufacturer. I would LOVE to see it, officially licensed by Nintendo. This is the 30th anniversary year of the NES. It's not going to happen, Nintendo just has zero interest in that route.

[sloan]

I say again, I do not believe any NES rom can be "sold" without Nintendo's permission.

That is ludicrous at best. Like saying EA needs permission from Sony to license any of its properties on other systems, just because they ported games to PS4. Wouldn't hold water in a court of law.

Nintendo had a 10NES lockout chip on their cartridges, but that in no ways is a lock from Taito releasing Legend of Kage to AtGames after 30 years.

[Greg2600]

Actually, duh, I forgot that Goldeneye was published by Nintendo, hence further rights issues. So maybe they don't need Nintendo's approval, but I still don't see it happening.

[Leo_A]

I say again, I do not believe any NES rom can be "sold" without Nintendo's permission.

Nintendo has no such rights to 3rd party content.


Actually, duh, I forgot that Goldeneye was published by Nintendo, hence further rights issues. So maybe they don't need Nintendo's approval, but I still don't see it happening.

They also published a variety of other projects like the Banjo games and Perfect Dark. So merely being the publisher doesn't mean that they hold any rights.

The most common and believable story that I've seen with Goldeneye basically goes as follows. Rare wanted to remaster this for XBLA and was in the early stages of the project with the sticking point before proceeding past a proof of concept demo being securing permission to utilize the James Bond license. Rare pursued this and contacted the videogame rights holder at the time, which as I recall was Activision.

Activision agreed to assist in getting this back out there with the condition, in order to protect their relationship with Nintendo, that Nintendo unofficially agree to this since Activision didn't want to ruffle any feathers with their relationship with Nintendo by assisting in getting a classic so closely associated with Nintendo onto the competitor's platform. But sadly, Nintendo told them that they'd prefer if it didn't happen.

Rare supposedly even offered to allow the N64 classic to appear on the Wii's Virtual Console service if they agreed, to no avail. So silently it sits while other original Rare creations from the N64 that were published by Nintendo have been remastered (Conker on the Xbox and both Banjo games and Perfect Dark on the 360).

[calgon]

I know that the chances of this are very slim, but It would be amazing if atgames could fix the sound on their genesis clones and throw in s-video

[Tanooki]

The only right of a Nintendo license is to have their name on the screen saying Licensed to Nintendo, and allowing that game to work on their hardware, use their logos, boxes, and so on, the physical aspect. They don't own a damn thing with any of the games and all one would have to do is remove the 'licensed by nintendo' blip on the title/pre-title screens and you'd be good to go if your 'emulator' was made honestly not using legal old Nintendo docs to make the emulator. It's just developer laziness and disinterest keeping such games off Steam, android, or whatever else. If someone decided it was in their interest to license to ATGames their library and use one of those shitty sub-par buggy emulators of theirs to make another console or handheld they have every right to do so.

[Leo_A]

They don't own a damn thing with any of the games and all one would have to do is remove the 'licensed by nintendo' blip on the title/pre-title screens and you'd be good to go if your 'emulator' was made honestly not using legal old Nintendo docs to make the emulator.

All NES and SuperNES patents are now expired and are in the public domain. So it doesn't matter if they have access to official Nintendo documentation on the inner-workings of said consoles.

[Tanooki]

Good point. But Nintendo still is fairly sue happy about anything and egotistically take the stance that emulation is illegal while hypocritically running their virtual console. Perhaps people are just afraid to try and sell a legal device that runs NES games from third parties due to one kind of threat or another. It seems highly suspect no one would want to take a stab at it.

[sloan]

This did just hit me regarding Nintendo having to give permission for ROM's to release to other systems. Wasn't the big thing back in the 80's that in order to release a game on NES, companies had to sign an agreement not to release it on any other platform? Its what killed Master System and 7800, correct? Could Nintendo use those agreements to keep Taito, Capcom, etc, from releasing to AtGames in present times?

What is the statute of limitations on those non-compete agreements?

[Greg2600]

sloan, as the others have said, Nintendo probably cannot prevent the games from being included. As I said though, the licensing costs for Castlevania, Contra, Mega Man, etc. are probably too high for AtGames or anyone else.

On topic, these have been out there for awhile, but AtGames does sell standalone Atari controllers and paddles. They are 11.99 and 19.99 respectively.

http://www.atgames.us/Accessories_c3.htm

[Leo_A]

Good point. But Nintendo still is fairly sue happy about anything and egotistically take the stance that emulation is illegal while hypocritically running their virtual console.

When was the last time they sued any company or individual that programmed an emulator, or created and produced a hardware replica like a NOAC chip? I don't even recall much in the way of that back 15 years ago or so when there still was some patent protection in place.

The only lawsuits I've ever seen revolved around copyrighted software, such as Nintendo games being bundled with a cheap NOAC device. I don't even think they target rom sites anymore, realizing that at this point, it's like trying to put a genie back in its bottle. But try to rip them off at retail with your cheap NOAC clone with bundled NES roms and they still will come down hard on you.

We've even seen commercial NES/SNES emulation on competing platforms. Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts on Capcom Classics Collection: Volume 1 leaps to mind as utilizing a Digital Eclipse SuperNes emulation core.

[Akito01]

I think if ATGames is looking for another Flashback idea, it would be fun to see a Commodore 64 one. There's already been a C64 joystick plug-n-play, but a Flashback could be more fun, especially if included a built-in keyboard. The ColecoVision Flashback has many of the titles you'd expect in a C64 Flashback, so I feel like they have the licensing contacts in place to get the games you'd want, and I think there is enough C64 nostalgia to make it worth producing.

[Jorpho]

Since the current era of plug-n-plays began, has there ever been any plug-n-play in the form of a keyboard? It strikes me that it would be needlessly expensive, and the extra bulkiness might make it more difficult to ship or keep stocked. It would also look much less like a toy and thus less appealing to the casual consumer.

[Greg2600]

Commodore 64 would be cool, as would TurboGrafx-16, provided they used many of the PCE-only titles as well.

There are quite a few mini bluetooth keyboards available now for under $20 retail. They use a single membrane and one big sheet of keys like an old cell phone. Cost wise it could make sense. AtGames does not sell their stuff overseas though, and that eliminates a big market for anything C64, in Europe.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/A1GK_130120210091020339cznWI1oNrv.jpg

[sloan]

5200 Flashback would be my dream come true, but it must include Space Dungeon with twin stick support. Since AtGames has done INTV and CV from that generation, when will they do the 5200 justice?

[Tanooki]

When was the last time they sued any company or individual that programmed an emulator, or created and produced a hardware replica like a NOAC chip? I don't even recall much in the way of that back 15 years ago or so when there still was some patent protection in place.

The only lawsuits I've ever seen revolved around copyrighted software, such as Nintendo games being bundled with a cheap NOAC device. I don't even think they target rom sites anymore, realizing that at this point, it's like trying to put a genie back in its bottle. But try to rip them off at retail with your cheap NOAC clone with bundled NES roms and they still will come down hard on you.

We've even seen commercial NES/SNES emulation on competing platforms. Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts on Capcom Classics Collection: Volume 1 leaps to mind as utilizing a Digital Eclipse SuperNes emulation core.

Awhile but I know even in fairly recent years they still send C&D letters and those seem more than effective enough to scare off most individuals from going further so no there hasn't been an actual lawsuit in a long while. They do actually go after people making pirate carts, devices that run roms if they can get away with it, and if a rom site is large enough and plenty enough people bring it to their attention they send letters. The thing with a ROM site is though if they're hosted out of a country where they don't care about roms, they can't do a thing about it. The end result though is still the same, they don't own the games other than those they or a 2nd party made, so they legally can't stop emulators that run their old system games nor the games themselves if their name is removed (ie: licensed by nintendo) so it's just a lack of will for whatever odd reason.

[sloan]

devices that run roms if they can get away with it,

Now we're talking silly. Name one that got C&D. If that holds, then no emulators could exist either. The Konami PnP that was pictured in an earlier post would not have been permitted either if that were the case.

[Jorpho]

5200 Flashback would be my dream come true, but it must include Space Dungeon with twin stick support. Since AtGames has done INTV and CV from that generation, when will they do the 5200 justice?They might as well go ahead and include XEGS support.

[Tanooki]

When I said devices that run roms, look up Nintendo's years long crusade to kill the R4 device maker and the sales in the NA market and beyond. They've beaten the shit out of that one much like how Sony took down pretty illegitimately Lik Sang some years back.

[Greg2600]

I think they'd have to do a 5200/Atari XL/XE combination job. Then again, we'd probably be stuck with a severely diluted lineup thanks again to license fees.

[Leo_A]

I think it more likely that they'd just roll out select titles to their existing Atari Flashback line, rather than create an Atari Flashback SuperSystem or whatever you'd want to call it.


When I said devices that run roms, look up Nintendo's years long crusade to kill the R4 device maker and the sales in the NA market and beyond. They've beaten the shit out of that one much like how Sony took down pretty illegitimately Lik Sang some years back.

That's not a emulator or system. Furthermore, it enabled piracy on a contemporary Nintendo platform.

I don't think anyone ever thought that they wouldn't combat such a device.

[sloan]

I think they'd have to do a 5200/Atari XL/XE combination job. Then again, we'd probably be stuck with a severely diluted lineup thanks again to license fees.

Atari had many of their own IP's on 5200, and stuff like Berzerk and Space Dungeon were owned by defunct companies, so getting quite a few quality titles on a 5200 Flashback might not be so hard after all. Additionally, quite a few homebrews out there might not be hard to sign up, and if they included XE titles...

[Leo_A]

Space Dungeon is Taito. Not sure where Berzerk has ended up.