Final Fight Question 2 - SNES Version Possible w/ All Levels?

[ColecoFan1981]

The other Final Fight question that is burning in my mind is whether or not all of the levels of the arcade game as well as the inclusion of the Industrial Area level, Guy as a playable character, and the 2-player co-op mode could've been possible for the Super NES version, had they been able to give the port more time for development?

It is noted that lack of development time was the reason for the exclusion of the Industrial Area level, Guy as a playable character, and the 2-player co-op mode, along with the fact that since the SNES port of FF was released early in the console's lifespan (1991), the limited ROM bank (8 MB maximum) also made it impossible to include these traits from the arcade version of FF.

~Ben

[Tanooki]

Definitely. Look at what does exist aside from those evil fools putting in stick boy losers instead of Roxy/Poison. The audio and visuals seem pretty amazingly close to the arcade all things considered, controls right too. Capcom has been known even back then for being notoriously cheap and would resort to even stuff like Konami did cheaping out on batteries for passwords or nothing at all in a game. Had the game not been a launch window title and popped up maybe six months later there's no reason it could not have been done entirely right and very close to the arcade like some of their releases after that point.

I thought it was disgusting they did FF Guy, that was the true epitome of being lazy and showing their true colors on that one to take an old(even then) game and swap out Cody for Guy. Really? Total lazy ass cash in that could have easily restored the missing stage, missing bonus stage, Rolento, the ladies, and had all 3 of the characters put in it. I'd have bought that up in an instant and tossed the other away.

[klausien]

The real answer is, not without a complete redesign from the ground up. The Final Fight sequels used a different engine because the original could only display a handful of characters onscreen at once. Just as with the SFII, King of Dragons, and Knights of the Round ports, Final Fight 2 & 3 were also massively letterboxed. SNES Final Fight was fine for the time, but in comparison to the arcade it was a very different game. Like many of the earliest games on the system, FF is so fondly remembered because of its release date, color palette, and the high quality sampling possible with the SNES's audio co-processor. With emulation and the last generation's Capcom Classics Collection, there is no reason to ever play SNES Final Fight again; other than to see how bad it actually was.

The missing player character problem was a memory size issue which could have been fixed with a larger, more expensive cartridge. However, the same cannot be said for the missing stage. All of the moving parts of the background that interact with the player and enemy sprites would not have been possible in the original engine without massive amounts of slowdown and flicker; the latter issue being something that emulation has smoothed over for later generations of players. The same goes for the two-player mode. An "arcade perfect" version of FF on the SNES would have needed smaller sprites, letterboxing, and/or massive amounts of flicker to even run properly.

While the SNES receives well-deserved praise for its library, it was far too slow to handle a "real" version of Final Fight until late in its lifetime. This is why the Sega/Mega CD version was the better conversion, regardless of its color dithering. Other than the soundtrack, it could even have been released on a cartridge. Just look at The Punisher, or any of the Bare Knuckle/Streets of Rage games for more evidence.

[XYXZYZ]

...the Sega/Mega CD version was the better conversion, regardless of its color dithering. Other than the soundtrack, it could even have been released on a cartridge.

I wonder if it's possible to rip FFCD and replace the music with music from the arcade game, burn it and play it on a Sega CD.


... the ladies...
http://www.digitpress.com/images/forum_custom/customavatars/avatar10705_1.gif

[Kitsune Sniper]

I wonder if it's possible to rip FFCD and replace the music with music from the arcade game, burn it and play it on a Sega CD.

It's just redbook audio. So yes. :p

But why would you want to replace these awesome songs?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecrB2rIXYMM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxqOal6tS1Y

[ColecoFan1981]

I would suspect that because of the watering down they already did for the SNES version of FF, that an (8-bit) NES version of the original FF may or may not have been possible w/o further watering down. What do you think?

~Ben

[Gentlegamer]

It's a ROM size issue, Capcom didn't want to pay for a larger ROM size to fit all the levels and characters.

[klausien]

I would suspect that because of the watering down they already did for the SNES version of FF, that an (8-bit) NES version of the game may or may not have been possible w/o further watering down. What do you think?

It happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nF_yMn2pXc

For some reason I can't get it to embed.

And the video is a perfect example of how emulation turns glasses rose-colored. This game is a ridiculous flicker-fest on a real NES.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

moreso than Mighty Final Fight (which is a real hidden gem), there's the unlicensed Hong Kong Original port of Fight Fight 3 to the Famicom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIV2tBKfozk

[SparTonberry]

It's a ROM size issue, Capcom didn't want to pay for a larger ROM size to fit all the levels and characters.

8 megabit/1 MB was already pretty large size by 1990 standards.

[Gentlegamer]

8 megabit/1 MB was already pretty large size by 1990 standards.

Final Fight 2 was 10 mega, Final Fight 3 was 24 mega.

Streets of Rage was 4 mega, and Streets of Rage 2 was 16 mega.

That should give a ball park for the ROM sizes for detailed characters and levels for that type of game.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I believe Final Fight 2 used compression for its graphics, and FF1 did not, which might account for the small size difference between the two - and FF2 being more detailed.

The SNES version -did- have the missing level... but it was never finished, most likely due to lack of time.

http://tcrf.net/Final_Fight_%28SNES%29

[Tanooki]

Ahh the cutting room floor how I love thee as that site is awesome for the lost nuggets of gaming info.

I find it funny asking about the possibility of FF watered down on the NES being possible. If I had been around today I would have popped those links to Mighty Final Fight and that HK pirate of Final Fight 3. For what they are, both are good solid games in their own right, and personally I love playing Mighty Final Fight and though I own the SNES original I can't play it knowing I have the NES game. It may look cute, but no one is cut out, even the girls. That FF3 pirate for the Famicom/NES is on my short list of pirates along with one other fighter which is Samurai Spirits.

[Steven]

Definitely. Look at what does exist aside from those evil fools putting in stick boy losers instead of Roxy/Poison. The audio and visuals seem pretty amazingly close to the arcade all things considered, controls right too. Capcom has been known even back then for being notoriously cheap and would resort to even stuff like Konami did cheaping out on batteries for passwords or nothing at all in a game. Had the game not been a launch window title and popped up maybe six months later there's no reason it could not have been done entirely right and very close to the arcade like some of their releases after that point.

I thought it was disgusting they did FF Guy, that was the true epitome of being lazy and showing their true colors on that one to take an old(even then) game and swap out Cody for Guy. Really? Total lazy ass cash in that could have easily restored the missing stage, missing bonus stage, Rolento, the ladies, and had all 3 of the characters put in it. I'd have bought that up in an instant and tossed the other away.


Couldn't agree more with your thoughts on FF Guy being a disgrace/lazy cash grab move on Capcom's part. They could have rather easily taken the time and effort to truly make it the definitive SNES Final Fight game.

Still a bit sad FF is only 1 player, but I'll admit, it's still fun to pop in every once in a blue moon, because graphically and even gameplay-wise, it's pretty damn faithful.

[ColecoFan1981]

Couldn't agree more with your thoughts on FF Guy being a disgrace/lazy cash grab move on Capcom's part. They could have rather easily taken the time and effort to truly make it the definitive SNES Final Fight game.

Still a bit sad FF is only 1 player, but I'll admit, it's still fun to pop in every once in a blue moon, because graphically and even gameplay-wise, it's pretty damn faithful.
Not only is the SNES FF only 1-player, so too was the NES version of 1943: The Battle of Midway. Both arcade versions had 2-player co-op.

~Ben

[SparTonberry]

In fairness, there were VERY few co-op shooters on the NES.
The only ones I'm sure of are Silkworm, Salamander/Life Force and Twin Eagle (licensed).