Interesting info on NES marketing

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

So, I was reading the NES page on Wikipedia, and it was interesting to find out some of the more subtle marketing tricks Nintendo used when first releasing the system. This may be common knowledge, but it was stuff I hadn't noticed before. Most of their marketing was in reaction to the video game crash of 1983, one issue being that game cover art was wildly exaggerated in comparison to wat the game actually was like. A good example of that is Centipede on the Atari 2600, the artwork is very realistic, and even has a comic book to go with it. When in reality it was just a shooter.

But with the original 30 black box games they used artwork that looked like what the game looked like, in order to not deter customers into thinking they were being hoodwinked again. So even the simple pixeled art on the covers of games like SMB or Excitebike had a purpose in mind. That, I found interesting.

The other thing was Nintendo's Seal of Quality which was used to ensure skeptical customers that the game was decent. Even tho that was still a sliding scale obviously as some games were just crap anyway. But even putting the games into certain genres on the boxes like "sports" or "action" was also a marketing trick to keep from alienating the customers.

Idk if that was old news to most people, but I read it today, found it interesting.

[bb_hood]

The other thing was Nintendo's Seal of Quality which was used to ensure skeptical customers that the game was decent. Even tho that was still a sliding scale obviously as some games were just crap anyway. But even putting the games into certain genres on the boxes like "sports" or "action" was also a marketing trick to keep from alienating the customers.


I think the Nintendo seal of quality was used to distinguish licensed games from non-licensed ones.

Another thing they did was to discourage the use of the term 'video game' and market the NES under the term 'Entertainment System'.

[Tanooki]

I think the idea of that seal was both as you said for them having a licensed game approved by Nintendo, but also it was a seal to prove that it went through the NOA testing labs to at the least insure that it did not have any critical bugs that would progression stop or crash a game so it couldn't be finished. Clearly the team quality was loose when looking at the god awful shit that LJN and Acclaim often put out in most cases, but as bad as they were they worked. The license also worked as a way to scare and threaten both consumers but retailers since they'd twist arms about unlicensed titles going as far as lying to consumers how they'd break your system potentially and scaring retailers into getting no or delayed shipments if they carried the stuff which made locating Tengen, Color Dreams and other even more turd loaded unlicensed stuff at retail a pain.

The marketing angle is correct 1983 scared the hell out of NIntendo, it's why the Famicom was on the market 2 years before it came here rebranded entirely right down to the boring ass VCR looking box to make it not look like a game console and then pandered it off with a robot to try and get stores to take it because they would want to have nothing to do with a game console, especially one made by the Japanese. They tried at a basic level for at least the first year or so to be 'honest' with buyers so they showed on the box what to expect from the game front and back, little mystery, which was great because you knew what you were going to get and didn't have to worry so much about buying trash with a pretty picture on the box.

[aingevt]

From what I remember, they also refused to refer to their games as "cartridges" and called them "game paks" instead. Presumably this was also to differentiate themselves from Atari.

[Tanooki]

They did in fact do that, and there was plenty of word play. The ROB being a Robotic Operating Buddy (ie a robot friend in the big 80s high point of cool robot toys for kids) and even a light gun being a Zapper that sounded more toy like too. They wanted to pander it as a toy, not as a video game system since they spoiled the market just 2 years earlier. They wanted to give everything a visual and name similarity to hot toys in the market from laser tag to robot buddy 2-XL among others. Everything was a gimmick out of them to crappily disguise it from pissed off and scared retail outlets that it was a video game system after they lost their asses on those failures having to clear out the mess of them on the whole in 1983. It's covered pretty well in David Sheff's Game Over book that came out like 15 years ago.

For the public and the jittery store reps who sold toys (and once video games) they put this dog and pony show on and was just able to squeak enough stores to allow a soft test launch in LA and surrounding CA counties and then in NYC. With the luck we know, it worked out. But then it shifted into finding that companies then wanted to make games for it to pop up in the US and NOA went into nazi control scheme mode with the limit of games per year, restricting information, threatening stores about consequences for unlicensed games, scaring consumers about them as if they'd melt their system down, propaganda every 10min on TV spots on major networks to the NP advertising magazine mouthpiece. It was all very calculated.

[The Adventurer]

While pretty dishonest, reigning in unlicensed games was probably a good thing overall for consumers. Since they attributed a lot to the video game crash.

[Greg2600]

Nearly everything Nintendo did during that period was with the Atari-era mistakes in mind. I wouldn't call them tricks, they were strategies and tactics, to first persuade retailers and then consumers. The buying public were somewhat bored with the previous game era, and retailers were highly skeptical.

[Gentlegamer]

Nintendo had a herculean task of reviving the video game market after the crash. Video games were retail poison, and the tactics mentioned above were enacted to combat what the previous generation had done to the market, as Greg2600 noted.

[bb_hood]

Nintendo had a herculean task of reviving the video game market after the crash.

Yeah, although in the end I think the products sold themselves. I think Nintendo knew that if they could get a foot in the door they would be all set.
It wasnt like they were fooling anyone, calling a video game console an entertainment system isnt going to convince people to drop 300$ on a toy, especially back in 1985.
ROB was included in the first set, and I guess that too was there to make it look like more than just another 'video game'.

[peeingas]

The "Nintendo Seal of Quality" is one of those things that gets a lot more attention on the internet than it ever did in real life. It is mostly used as a punchline for jokes about bad games, but back in the day, no one really cared about it or even noticed it. If anyone did notice it, they knew it was just a gimmick and didn't pay it much attention.

[PizzaKat]

I remember reading this some years back. Very interesting. They also asked Atari if they can distribute the NES but Atari said no so they went out on their own, good thing too.

[SparTonberry]

Yes it is well known Atari backed out after Coleco (unintentionally?) violated their Donkey Kong license by porting it to the Adam when they were only licensed for ColecoVision. Atari viewed that as a threat to their computer business, and thinking Nintendo was responsible called off the Famicom deal.

[Jorpho]

But with the original 30 black box games they used artwork that looked like what the game looked like, in order to not deter customers into thinking they were being hoodwinked again. So even the simple pixeled art on the covers of games like SMB or Excitebike had a purpose in mind. That, I found interesting. All this time, that never once occurred to me. It's brilliant in its elegance! Maybe that explains why the box art for Zelda and Zelda II was so darn boring-looking as well.


Yes it is well known Atari backed out after Coleco (unintentionally?) violated their Donkey Kong license by porting it to the Adam when they were only licensed for ColecoVision. Atari viewed that as a threat to their computer business, and thinking Nintendo was responsible called off the Famicom deal.Something like that. Actually, the ADAM had the ability to play ColecoVision cartridges, and Atari had already negotiated exclusive rights to "computer" versions DK, so it looked like Nintendo was going behind their backs when DK was seen running on the ADAM. Or so the story goes.
http://web.archive.org/web/20070517015831/http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/june03/dumbestmoments/index24.shtml

[Tanooki]

I found it fascinating well after various third party games did pop out on the market that Nintendo stuck to their original 'honesty in marketing' designs of the black box games into the silver box titles, yet they did bend it a few times before just changing it up with SMB2. You had the trio of of 'silver box' games with Rad Racer, Metroid and Kid Icarus which are all the same style (even Rad Racer almost ended up black too, there are some black manuals out there with blue font.) Then you have Mike Tyson's Punchout being the other, still the boring black box design but instead had a live shot of Tyson on the front doing damage. It wasn't until SMB2 where you got the poppy cartoon visuals to make the title stand out at retail with that big mario on the blue cloudy background.

[bb_hood]

All this time, that never once occurred to me. It's brilliant in its elegance! Maybe that explains why the box art for Zelda and Zelda II was so darn boring-looking as well.



It never occurred to me either, I never thought that the black box games' pixelated art had a purpose to show a realistic image of the game's graphics.
People say they look boring but I think they look awesome. I think the boxes for the first 2 zelda games are beautiful. I love how they have the part of the shield cut out revealing the gold cart underneath.

[Gentlegamer]

It never occurred to me either, I never thought that the black box games' pixelated art had a purpose to show a realistic image of the game's graphics.
People say they look boring but I think they look awesome. I think the boxes for the first 2 zelda games are beautiful. I love how they have the part of the shield cut out revealing the gold cart underneath.

It should also be remembered that the black box art was showing off state of the art graphics for the time. It was a step back from the fanciful/deceptive art of the previous gen, but it was also a huge step up from the actual graphics of the previous gen.

I wish Game Over would go back into print, the last edition sells used for ridiculous prices just like many classic games, these days, $50 for a mass market paperback.

I have the abridged edition, and it's really good, but I'd pay good money for a royalty paying hardcover of the full edition.

[Gentlegamer]

Serendipity!

RetrowareTV posts The Video Game Years, 1985 part 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL100YomE8c), covering the test marketing/launch of NES and covers the topic of this thread!

[Tanooki]

I wish I still had Game Over, but it was game over for it like 10 years ago so I think I gave it away in a bundle of stuff as a thank you. If they ever throw that sucker up on the Kindle format I'm in for another read as it's a good one and works as a nice reference as well on 20th century Nintendo since it stopped right as the GC was about to pop out.

[Gentlegamer]

I wish I still had Game Over, but it was game over for it like 10 years ago so I think I gave it away in a bundle of stuff as a thank you. If they ever throw that sucker up on the Kindle format I'm in for another read as it's a good one and works as a nice reference as well on 20th century Nintendo since it stopped right as the GC was about to pop out.

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Over-Nintendo-Conquered-World-ebook/dp/B0060AY98I/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1408494335&sr=8-2&keywords=game+over+david+sheff

[Az]

It never occurred to me either, I never thought that the black box games' pixelated art had a purpose to show a realistic image of the game's graphics.

Perhaps also the reason behind Sega's early year extremely minimalistic SMS covers?

[Tanooki]

Oooh nice. That's a fairly recent add I think but I haven't looked in a couple years. Surprised it's $10 though.

[Greg2600]

Oooh nice. That's a fairly recent add I think but I haven't looked in a couple years. Surprised it's $10 though.

That's cause it's the Kindle version!


Yes it is well known Atari backed out after Coleco (unintentionally?) violated their Donkey Kong license by porting it to the Adam when they were only licensed for ColecoVision. Atari viewed that as a threat to their computer business, and thinking Nintendo was responsible called off the Famicom deal.

Go you one better, when SEGA was bringing the Genesis to market, they also inquired with Atari, who couldn't get that deal done either. Nintendo dealt with Atari (Warner Bros.) while SEGA with Atari (Tramiel).

[SparTonberry]

Perhaps also the reason behind Sega's early year extremely minimalistic SMS covers?

Limited budget? :P I mean they did need to support the console pretty much ENTIRELY by themselves.
Maybe I'm just too young to remember but I don't remember ever seeing an SMS commercial in America. Especially before the Tonka takeover.
And understandably once Sega got the rights back they'd want to focus their advertising dollars on the Genesis before the SNES was released.

[Az]

Limited budget? :P I mean they did need to support the console pretty much ENTIRELY by themselves.

What I mean is that, when taking into consideration the idea that Nintendo went with the sprite artwork on the early releases to distance themselves from these lavish imaginative watercolor paintings on VCS games, Sega went with extremely basic/conservative (and lame) artwork. Comparing the art on early games and their Japanese Mark III boxes is like night and day, much like Famicom releases.

Around '87 or so Sega still had the white grid pattern but finally allowed some real artwork to be on the box, along with the game's name actually written in a way it is on the title screen or promotional material and not just Times New Roman (or whatever bland font they used). Once they started branching out and showing real art (Kenseiden, Spy VS Spy, Double Dragon, etc) it makes shit like Black Belt, Astro Warrior, and Wonder Boy even more hideous.

I'd like to have seen Sega's take on a sprite-based cover like the NES black label series. Can you imagine how awesome Black Belt would have been using those huge detailed characters from the boss fights or Enduro Racer on that gorgeous canyon level?

[Jorpho]

Especially before the Tonka takeover.I thought Tonka was there from the beginning, and that the atrocious blue graph paper was their idea. Not so?

[SparTonberry]

From what I read, SMS launched in 1986, Tonka got the rights around 1988 and Sega bought back the rights about 1990.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

Sega definately didn't have the best cover art, ironically too the graphics were usually superior on the SMS. Where Nintendo had them beat was in the sheer amount of fantastic games. I honestly think the Master System was underrated, and didn't get the chance to shine the way it could have, mainly due to Nintendo having the monopoly on developers. Had Sega had the developers on their side the way they did for the Genesis, the Master System woulda looked way different. Although the pause button being on the console? Idk wat they were thinking. I suppose it was all new territory at that point, tho, so u can't blame em too much.

[bb_hood]

Sega definately didn't have the best cover art, ironically too the graphics were usually superior on the SMS. Where Nintendo had them beat was in the sheer amount of fantastic games. I honestly think the Master System was underrated, and didn't get the chance to shine the way it could have, mainly due to Nintendo having the monopoly on developers. Had Sega had the developers on their side the way they did for the Genesis, the Master System woulda looked way different. Although the pause button being on the console? Idk wat they were thinking. I suppose it was all new territory at that point, tho, so u can't blame em too much.

I generally disagree with the argument that SMS is better in any regard than the NES. In my opinion the SMS was just a copycat system rushed out to compete with the NES. They put the pause button on the system because they diddnt want the controller to be exactly like the NES controller. They packaged it with a light phaser and safari hunt in response to the NES Zapper and Duck Hunt.
People say SMS has better graphics but I disagree. To say they are superior is a huge stretch. Not one game on SMS even comes close to Kirby's Adventure in terms of graphics or sound.

[Jorpho]

People say SMS has better graphics but I disagree. To say they are superior is a huge stretch. Not one game on SMS even comes close to Kirby's Adventure in terms of graphics or sound.To be fair, neither did most NES games. It's possible something comparable would have appeared eventually if the SMS had the same kind of lifespan and developer support.

[ccovell]

I generally disagree with the argument that SMS is better in any regard than the NES. In my opinion the SMS was just a copycat system rushed out to compete with the NES. They put the pause button on the system because they diddnt want the controller to be exactly like the NES controller. They packaged it with a light phaser and safari hunt in response to the NES Zapper and Duck Hunt.
People say SMS has better graphics but I disagree. To say they are superior is a huge stretch. Not one game on SMS even comes close to Kirby's Adventure in terms of graphics or sound.

While I agree with your first point (the SMS is a copycat probably rushed to compete with the NES,) you got your chronology wrong: The pause button was put on the system because it retained full backward compatibility with the SG-1000, which had a pause button on the system. The SG-1000 was released on the same day as the Famicom (thus it being exceedingly unlikely Sega could copy Nintendo for their SG-1000 system or controller design, or vice-versa.) Too bad Sega didn't add buttons to their SMS design, but if you compare the 1st-gen SG-1000 controller with that of the SG-1000 II and SMS, you'll see that they did blatantly copy the Famicom paradigm.

I'd say in terms of colour richness, several SMS games surpass Kirby, namely the fighting scenes in Phantasy Star, and a whole slew of graphics in the various Mickey Mouse and Asterix games on the SMS. Also the word & concept of "superior" cannot be stretched: either something is inferior, equal, or superior. There's no exaggeration possible with these words.

[bb_hood]

It's possible something comparable would have appeared eventually if the SMS had the same kind of lifespan and developer support.

There were SMS game release in the mid 90s. I dont think something comparable to the better NES games even could have come along, and besides nothing did.




I'd say in terms of colour richness, several SMS games surpass Kirby, namely the fighting scenes in Phantasy Star, and a whole slew of graphics in the various Mickey Mouse and Asterix games on the SMS. Also the word & concept of "superior" cannot be stretched: either something is inferior, equal, or superior. There's no exaggeration possible with these words.

SMS games all feel slow and choppy. I used Kirby's Adventure as an example because Kirby's Adventure has many frames of sprite animation creating a much better looking game.
I disagree that phantasy star looks better, you could argue that SMS has a larger color palette but I dont think SMS games look more colorful than NES games.
Also, instead of using the word 'stretch' I should have said "Saying that SMS graphics look better than NES games is a huge exaggeration".

[ccovell]

I should have said "Saying that SMS graphics look better than NES games is a huge exaggeration".

But that creates the same problem. A comparative like "better" can either be true or untrue; not exaggerated.

[The Adventurer]

Didn't games like Mario 3 and Kirby's Adventure have additional graphics processing chips built into the carts for additional graphics fidelity?

[SparTonberry]

They did not. The only thing they really added other than basic memory mapping was an IRQ timer (mostly for allowing mid-frame ROM bank swaps).
MMC2 (Punch-Out!!) and MMC4 (Famicom Wars and Fire Emblem) it seems allowed mid-scanline bank swaps.

The only chip I think that actually did something to increase the graphics capability was MMC5 and that was only used by Castlevania III, Laser Invasion and I think every Koei game.
(additional VRAM that could be used as a third nametable, or allowing games to assign a palette to every 8x8 tile, wheras normally every 2 tile by 2 tile (16 pixels by 16 pixels) needs to use the same palette).
Although some games had extra VRAM to allow four nametables (for a full 2 screen wide by 2 tall buffer, compared to normally only having 2 screens total) but supposedly they couldn't have additional main RAM (for saving or otherwise) with it for some reason.

[tom]

SMS games looked and played better, especially the European-only releases. Kirby's Adventure looks ok for a NES console though, it couldn't have done better. SMS did.
Also, the SMS looked a better quality console when compared to the ugly grey NES console.

[bb_hood]

SMS games looked and played better, especially the European-only releases. Kirby's Adventure looks ok for a NES console though, it couldn't have done better. SMS did.
Also, the SMS looked a better quality console when compared to the ugly grey NES console.

Well thats your opinion,
What about Tyson's Punchout? Way better looking and much more fast paced than either Buster Douglas or Rocky.
Personally I think the NES system looks awesome.

Also the music on any and every master system game is total garbage. For that reason alone the NES is just better.

[Jorpho]

There were SMS game release in the mid 90s.Fair enough, but I suspect none of them had the kind of highly-paid, quality developers behind them as Kirby's Adventure.

[Tanooki]

I wouldn't say that. I had an SMS for awhile, got rid of it maybe a year ago doing some nice trading and stuff and I did import around a half dozen UK titles, some exclusive like Streets of Rage which rightly impressed me as did Golden Axe Warrior which made it here. I had others like the Sonic titles, the castlevania clone the name escapes me. I did research with others including spendy stuff too like Power Strike 2, Streets of Rage 2, the conversion of Dynamite Headdy. The SMS we got, most of it was mid-life NES in quality in the audio/visual dept and even the quality of the game play itself, but much of what we had was pretty crusty as they bailed on it realistically once the Genesis hit in 89. If you look to UK or really Brazil, there's stuff that in play quality, audio and visuals rivals some of the NES best but those mostly were smartly well converted GG and Genesis titles. I think when you toss in the MMC5, MMC2, and the quirky Famicom stuff especialy the VRC family from Capcom and some that Sunsoft did (gimmick mapper) along even with the no mapper (look it up in game play) Moon Crystal -- the SMS loses but not vastly.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

I generally disagree with the argument that SMS is better in any regard than the NES. In my opinion the SMS was just a copycat system rushed out to compete with the NES. They put the pause button on the system because they diddnt want the controller to be exactly like the NES controller. They packaged it with a light phaser and safari hunt in response to the NES Zapper and Duck Hunt.
People say SMS has better graphics but I disagree. To say they are superior is a huge stretch. Not one game on SMS even comes close to Kirby's Adventure in terms of graphics or sound.

Ok, Kirby's Adventure is a good arguement. And it, in many ways, was a copycat system, but it did display more colors then the NES. I'm still much more into the NES, tho, so I'm with u, trust me. But a game like Kirby's Adventure is one of those games that pushes the limits of the system, and it's one of my fav games of alltime, but I was just making the arguement that perhaps the Master System had more support, there'd be games like Kirby's Adventure that would really show wat the system could do. Again, I love Kirby, and the NES is still my #1 system.

The Xbox was superior in specs to the PS2, but the PS2 is def far superior in games, and I much prefer the PS2, so I'm not saying it's just specs for me.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

Copycat system or not, the master system really was a solid system. It was a toploader unlike the NES, and my NES does not work while my SMS works great, so there's that. I mean, I own, I think, 163 NES games and 5 SMS games tho, so I'm a total NES guy. But the Master System is still great. It just lacks the laundry list of great games that the NES had, sadly.

[bb_hood]

Ok, Kirby's Adventure is a good arguement. And it, in many ways, was a copycat system, but it did display more colors then the NES. I'm still much more into the NES, tho, so I'm with u, trust me. But a game like Kirby's Adventure is one of those games that pushes the limits of the system, and it's one of my fav games of alltime, but I was just making the arguement that perhaps the Master System had more support, there'd be games like Kirby's Adventure that would really show wat the system could do. Again, I love Kirby, and the NES is still my #1 system.

The Xbox was superior in specs to the PS2, but the PS2 is def far superior in games, and I much prefer the PS2, so I'm not saying it's just specs for me.

Its cool, I just had to voice my opinion in response to 'sms is superior'.
Ive been playing Kirby alot the past few days and recording my runs. Every time I play Im just really impressed at how nice it looks and how well done the sprite animations are.

[The Adventurer]

I was told the SMS was unable to do the same sprite 'flickering' trick to help improve performance, and would often by plagued by higher then unusual slow down vs comparable NES games.

[ccovell]

I was told the SMS was unable to do the same sprite 'flickering' trick to help improve performance, and would often by plagued by higher then unusual slow down vs comparable NES games.

You need to stop getting tech specs from the schoolyard. ;-D

As for flicker, go play SMS R-Type and swear to me it doesn't flicker. :-D

While a few SMS games do amazing stuff with its slow CPU, it is a fact that the Z-80 is slower than the NES' 6502-like (read up on Z-80 M-cycles vs. T-cycles vs the 6502 yourselves) and so it is more prone to slowdown in theory. The SMS' video chip is even more restrictive in terms of timing and when it can be safely accessed compared to the NES' PPU, leading to more games (that I've noticed) skipping frames on the SMS, compared to NES games which tend to draw every frame but slow down as a result.

[tom]

Trouble with Nintendo way back was their communistic attitude threatening stores mot to stock any other system besides NES, otherwise SMS would've done much better in USA and you would have seen the gorgeous games only Europe got.
But there you go, land of the free was dictated by a Japanese company, go figure.

[bb_hood]

Trouble with Nintendo way back was their communistic attitude threatening stores mot to stock any other system besides NES, otherwise SMS would've done much better in USA and you would have seen the gorgeous games only Europe got.
But there you go, land of the free was dictated by a Japanese company, go figure.

That does not make any sense, you make it sound like Nintendo put a gun to the retailers head forcing them not to sell anything but Nintendo product.
Have you lived in America? Retail stores stocked SMS systems and games and they were not hard to find.
Nintendo games however, could be hard to find because they would sell out so fast. I remember my dad took me to 5 different stores searching for a copy of Super Mario 2, and at the last store they had one copy left. I was more than happy to spend all my 55$ on that game.
So maybe SMS games diddnt sell so well because Nintendo stuff was just way more popular???

Also regarding developers, maybe they just diddnt want to make games for a system which utilizes a controller with only 2 buttons? Nintendo controllers have 4 buttons in addition to the d-pad. You cant play Kirby's adventure with a sega master system controller, it uses the select button. How could you play a mega man game with a master system controller? Every time you need to switch weapons you would have to toggle the start button on the system which would be a huge pain. You would have to sit right next to the system as well. That is assuming the pause button on the system can bring up other menus in addition to just pausing the game. Many games on Nintendo utilize more than just the A and B buttons.

[Tanooki]

I agree that was a rambling post about 'communism' and the NES which that term doesn't even fit either even if they did get away with what was implied there. I remember the SMS was all over the place as a kid, no one much wanted it except the rare kid who was very into the arcade games and was a Sega fan and liked to have home editions. Nintendo was what it was on the public side (and retail) because of popularity, fun, and media manipulation all rolled together. Try and remember a SMS commercial, you may get a brain cramp, but I bet you'll remember if you are that old NES ads ran on TV, any network channel prime time or otherwise (hours when kids were not in school or asleep (like after 10) ran them all the time for the system on the whole and various games too. Then you had all the big ad spots and kiosks in stores, special events, give aways, brochures, NP magazine and more. The market wasn't dictated by a Japanese imperial dictator, it was manipulated by one and very well. The only borderline illegality was the threats upon developers if they wanted to make games they almost always couldn't make them for sega or anyone else until that court trial brought that down. Sega though had plenty on their own to offer and a few others did have the balls to put stuff on the thing too so it wasn't lacking. It just didn't have the popularity behind it or the ad machine either that fueled it.

[tom]

you make it sound like Nintendo put a gun to the retailers head forcing them not to sell anything but Nintendo product.


You hit the nail on the head, that's almost how it was, scaring tactics. This is well known and documented. As a matter of fact, Nintendo never played by 'American' rules (Game Over)

[tom]

Also regarding developers, maybe they just diddnt want to make games for a system which utilizes a controller with only 2 buttons? Nintendo controllers have 4 buttons in addition to the d-pad. You cant play Kirby's adventure with a sega master system controller, it uses the select button. How could you play a mega man game with a master system controller? Every time you need to switch weapons you would have to toggle the start button on the system which would be a huge pain. You would have to sit right next to the system as well. That is assuming the pause button on the system can bring up other menus in addition to just pausing the game. Many games on Nintendo utilize more than just the A and B buttons.


That's just stupid reasoning.
Space Shuttle on the Atari VCS uses 7 buttons, but you only have a 1-buttoned joystick, but it works perfectly, so where's the problem?
And anyways, Sega could've released a 5 buttoned joypad if needed, they updated pads with the Genesis.

[bb_hood]

That's just stupid reasoning.
Space Shuttle on the Atari VCS uses 7 buttons, but you only have a 1-buttoned joystick, but it works perfectly, so where's the problem?
And anyways, Sega could've released a 5 buttoned joypad if needed, they updated pads with the Genesis.

Well Space Shuttle uses the switches on the console itself, so I dont see how thats a relevant argument. SMS does not have a TV Type, Left and Right difficulty, or game select switches.

[SparTonberry]

The point of a controller is so that you don't have to sit next to the console. :P

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

We could debate the graphics and the frame rates of each console all day, but bottom line is the NES had 3 Castlevania games, 3 Ninja Gaidens, 3 Contra games, 3 Mario's, Metroid, Kirby, 6 Mega Man games, Duck Tales, 3 Double Dragons, AND Color A Dinosaur.

[Tanooki]

Hell you could shorten that argument to just saying: Nintendo had Capcom, Konami(w/Ultra), Koei, Tecmo, SNK, and Taito in their pocket. Take the franchises they all created or published and it's a drive by on Sega big time with the NES.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

Hell you could shorten that argument to just saying: Nintendo had Capcom, Konami(w/Ultra), Koei, Tecmo, SNK, and Taito in their pocket. Take the franchises they all created or published and it's a drive by on Sega big time with the NES.

Very true. They also had Hudsonsoft, Rare, and Hal Lab's. And all the other companies, Akklaim, Jaleco, LJN... Altho I've yet to encounter a really awesome SNK game on the NES. I haven't played them all yet, but the ones I have did not impress me. If u know of any exceptional SNK games on NES, let me know. Akklaim has been redeemed in my eyes cuz they made Smash TV, and I love Smash TV.

[bb_hood]

Smash TV is a really good game. I wish more NES games utilized 2 controllers. Crazy Climber does but I dont know of any others.

[SparTonberry]

I think the NES version of Smash TV seemed surprisingly well considering (I'm pretty sure) the same developer as Back to the Future made it. :P

Libble Rabble for the SFC is the one other dual-controller game I know of. And despite that the SNES has the buttons to support it (and they even included a plastic coin to put over the ABXY buttons for that D-pad feel), they included a few control options: D-pad + ABXY (normal), and three two D-pad modes: rotate clockwise (to hold the controllers by the top), rotated counterclockwise (held by the bottom) and the first one upright and the second upside-down (not sure of the point on that one).

[Tanooki]

Arkanoid -- SNK = Crystalis and Baseball Stars come to mind. Beyond that, it's especially up to taste with the arcade conversions such as Heavy Barrel and the others, but most aren't loving towards Athena or the Ikari Warriors games.

I didn't list more developers as I figured that was much a blow out already with those but yeah I suppose throwing in Rare, Natsume(through other publishers mostly), and Hudson should have been noted.



bbhood -- Silent Service, just not as a dual stick setup. Controller 2 controls firing the rear torpedo tubes, lets you look around without turning the boat, and if you're sinking you can blow ballast tanks causing an emergency surfacing of the sub.

[tom]

Hell you could shorten that argument to just saying: Nintendo had Capcom, Konami(w/Ultra), Koei, Tecmo, SNK, and Taito in their pocket. Take the franchises they all created or published and it's a drive by on Sega big time with the NES.

Again, due to Nintendo's bullying and threatening tactics, these companies weren't allowed to code for other platforms, otherwise they would've.

Anyway, Western companies are better than Japanese ones. SMS had many great European companies, no worries there.

[ccovell]

Anyway, Western companies are better than Japanese ones.

To each his own, pal.

[The Adventurer]

Anyway, Western companies are better than Japanese ones.

Whoa whoa whoa. Lets not go crazy now.

[Tanooki]

Hah western companies make better games? Haha. I take it this show will be run a few nights a week before moving on to the next club? :D

They make a few specific types of games better, hands down no argument, but on the whole western developers are pretty closed or narrow minded on what they really love to dig into a lot and really develop, and if you're not into WRPGs, sports, FPS games, and a few other 'tough' type things you can forget it. Japan still has the edge on plenty of genres on how to do a game right and better.

[tom]

I take it this show will be run a few nights a week before moving on to the next club? :D

.

That's always the way with the Nintendo fanboys, you're right there.

[bb_hood]

That's always the way with the Nintendo fanboys, you're right there.

Good one. When all else fails, just start calling people names.

[Tanooki]

Clearly since this had really nothing to be about being a Nintendo fanboy and all about marketing. When you can't come up with anything, peg someone as a blind fan troll especially since it was entirely off topic since the quote was about Japanese vs Western gaming habits.

Perhaps I really just dislike or can't much get into what is considered western gaming and popular these days since it has drowned out so much creativity and good stuff from hitting a disc or game card. I never was much a fan of western stuff in the 80s or 90s either, so it's nothing new, but much of it just bored the crap out of me and always has except in certain cases. I'll take an on paper D&D game over a western RPG digital version anytime. Sports I'll go in for if it's unlicensed. Racing I like the more screwy non-real stuff. FPS, WW2 DOOM Wolf3D, Duke stuff good, rest couldn't care less about mostly.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

That's always the way with the Nintendo fanboys, you're right there.

I'm far from a Nintendo fanboy. I went from NES to Genesis to Playstation to Playstation 2 to 360. I didn't play SNES until maybe 2 years ago, I played a lot of N64 in the 90s and had one in the house, but I preferred my Playstation. I played a little Gamecube, but again preferred my PS2 and Xbox. I do play Wii and I love it, but my 360 has gotten a lot more playtime.

If the 700 something games that were released on the NES were on the Master System, I'd be into it over the NES. But theyre not.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

Clearly since this had really nothing to be about being a Nintendo fanboy and all about marketing. When you can't come up with anything, peg someone as a blind fan troll especially since it was entirely off topic since the quote was about Japanese vs Western gaming habits.

Perhaps I really just dislike or can't much get into what is considered western gaming and popular these days since it has drowned out so much creativity and good stuff from hitting a disc or game card. I never was much a fan of western stuff in the 80s or 90s either, so it's nothing new, but much of it just bored the crap out of me and always has except in certain cases. I'll take an on paper D&D game over a western RPG digital version anytime. Sports I'll go in for if it's unlicensed. Racing I like the more screwy non-real stuff. FPS, WW2 DOOM Wolf3D, Duke stuff good, rest couldn't care less about mostly.

Yea, where's Sega from.....??

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

Arkanoid -- SNK = Crystalis and Baseball Stars come to mind. Beyond that, it's especially up to taste with the arcade conversions such as Heavy Barrel and the others, but most aren't loving towards Athena or the Ikari Warriors games.

I didn't list more developers as I figured that was much a blow out already with those but yeah I suppose throwing in Rare, Natsume(through other publishers mostly), and Hudson should have been noted.



bbhood -- Silent Service, just not as a dual stick setup. Controller 2 controls firing the rear torpedo tubes, lets you look around without turning the boat, and if you're sinking you can blow ballast tanks causing an emergency surfacing of the sub.

I'll hafta try those games. I've only played Ikari Warriors and Alpha Warrior. I don't hate on Ikari Warriors, its not bad, I just suck at it, and Alpha Warrior is sort of an average space shooter, which is decent but hard as nails. Like most shooters.

[tom]

Yea, where's Sega from.....??

USA actually

[tom]

Good one. When all else fails, just start calling people names.

If the shoe fits.

Nothing failed, just you perhaps. I only confirmed Tanooki's post, nothing more. You guys running out of steam, I'm pretty sure you can do better. Bring it on, I'm waiting....

[bb_hood]

If the shoe fits.

Nothing failed, just you perhaps. I only confirmed Tanooki's post, nothing more. You guys running out of steam, I'm pretty sure you can do better. Bring it on, I'm waiting....

Not much more I can say, really. Whenever anyone says anything you just respond with 'SMS is better' or you call them a fanboy.

[Tanooki]

I'm lost on any shoe fitting. I've owned all the Sega systems outside of the Pico and got my kicks out of it, just never liked the library as much as the Nintendo stuff when you factor in the third party releases. I mean this is pretty off topic anyway since this was about advertising, not personal tastes in game quality, but whatever floats the boat when one is on a mission right?

[Gentlegamer]

Altho I've yet to encounter a really awesome SNK game on the NES. I haven't played them all yet, but the ones I have did not impress me. If u know of any exceptional SNK games on NES, let me know.

Crystalis
Baseball Stars

[tom]

Yeah, I played good games on my NES, but having said, I already was a 16bit gamer when the NES arrived at our shores. 8bit was like old fashioned. Nevertheless, I defended the SMS because Nintendo ruled USA due to hard work, cheating, threatening and lying. Hard work is ok, but the other not. USA is the land of fair competition, and Nintendo didn't play by the rules.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

USA actually

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega

Japan.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

Yeah, I played good games on my NES, but having said, I already was a 16bit gamer when the NES arrived at our shores. 8bit was like old fashioned. Nevertheless, I defended the SMS because Nintendo ruled USA due to hard work, cheating, threatening and lying. Hard work is ok, but the other not. USA is the land of fair competition, and Nintendo didn't play by the rules.

This is true. I do think, tho, had Nintendo not been as hardcore as they were the US video game market woulda never taken back off again. Much of their strategies were to keep the market from becoming over-saturated again. And, yes, they were cutthroat with their contracts, but in the end, video games finally became a real comodity for people, and kept many developers in business. U'd never have later games like Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid if there weren't some standards set, and someone controlling things.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

USA actually

They did start off in Hawaii, but they're based out of Tokyo. Sonic's an anime character, and he was created by Yuji Naka Naoto Ōshima, whose most likely Japanese.