A New (kind of) Nintendo 3D handheld

[Tanooki]

The 3DS gets another upgrade, actually it appears to be more of an upgrade in the style of the Gameboy to Gameboy Color.

Argh. A bit over a year ago I picked up an XL barely used off a local (oddly enough on ebay) and I've really enjoyed my time with it but damnit man why?!

Improved CPU performance
Better 3D technology and viewing (double blur gone viewing at an angle)
Internet browser uses HTML5, like the Wii U
NFC built-in
Improved brightness adjustment (even auto adjusts depending on area lighting)
New Nintendo 3DS now uses micro Sd instead of standard SD.
Wireless transfer between 3DS and PC through the same network.
Interchangeable 3DS plates.
Improved Battery performance.
Increased Screen size, but keeping the same resolution.
Coloured 3DS buttons, with the addition of C-stick.
Zl/ZR has been added.

All that added! F you Nintendo, seriously! I'd totally be on board for ignoring this, but the thing is look at this list. I just don't see them doing this much of a dramatic change to the system to have it end up like the GB Micro/DSi with like a years lifespan and change to get dumped. This is something far different then SP - micro and DSLite to DSI though closed to the ds swap. You're getting beefier hardware in the box but not a huge change (maybe like the old old school PC upgrade of the 486sx66 to a DX66 setup with nicer RAM with it. But no they also swap out the 3D tech and improve that in tandem with the screen. The battery is made less of an issue, bigger screen again but clean same resolution.

The kicker to me is that extra stick and set of top buttons. Let's be serious, between the hardware tweaks and then adding that stuff along with that Xenoblade port I think they're going to be trying to gobble up as many last gen or gen before(wii/gc/ps2) era ports and conversions as possible plus anything computer/tablet with pad based stuff from now too. This could effectively stretch out the 3DS life for a good stretch revitalizing the slagging sales on it which they need since the WiiU is crushing their wallet. These simple added stick and buttons plus the core system fixes will really get third parties wanting to more open up again to bringing games because it'll be easier when you have a standard controller now in your hands.

I really don't want to do it, but if this shapes up as I'm thinking I'll end up buying the damn thing...argh. Perhaps this is what Nintendo did with the Gameboy years ago with the updating with marginally better hardware and a higher clocked CPU on the GB Color.


I get the anger here I'm seeing online already, but it's not like Nintendo didn't do this before. Gameboy was around from 1989 through 2003, but in that time, the Gameboy was effectively trumped back in 1998 by the Gameboy Color. With the GBC came the black carts (works on the old) and the charcoal see through GBC only games. They're doing it again with the 3DS. It's a new, but not a new piece of hardware that happens to share a name and use the older games but will have some unique. This isn't the little step of the DSi, this is a bigger step and as such they'll end up dragging the life of the 3DS on the whole out a few years longer than it would otherwise (GBC was alone from 1998-01 then died in 03.)

[Leo_A]

Too many standard 3DS systems out there for most publishers to ever code to take advantage of this thing. Few beyond Nintendo themselves with the occasional game to justify its existence will willingly give up selling to a 45 million unit and growing install base just to take advantage of a few seemingly small upgrades.

We'll just be lucky if more titles take advantage of a 2nd analog stick (which looks pretty awful in these pictures). The list that supports the existing add-on accessories which provide that feature is pretty pitiful.

If they were smart, they'd of implemented some sort of tv/out ability here. Their goal appears mostly to get existing customers to double dip in the tradition of Nintendo handhelds and that would've been an excellent incentive if it had that feature.

[Tupin]

Nintendo just takes all my money now.

[FieryReign]

When is this thing supposed to drop? Are there any pictures of it?

[Tanooki]

I think viewing what is out there, it's more than just a minor upgrade, closer to the hop the GBC did, but we'll see once things happen.

It appears to be set for 2015 outside of Japan.

If you want to see the lame promo video of it showing the various angles and thing they're willing to disclose, this is a nice article and with a video linked inside of it. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/08/new_nintendo_3ds_models_announced

[Leo_A]

I doubt it, I suspect the improved CPU or whatever it supposedly has that will increase speeds in some applications and apparently is why Xenoblade Chronicles is an exclusive, will end up about as significant as the DSi was the last time out with its faster CPU and and added RAM.

[Tanooki]

I think we're on the same page. Take a peek at the wikipedia that sources the DSi tech specs boost. The main processor, the ARM9 is double clocked up to 133mhz and 4X the ram (16MB). Now think back to the GBC and check that one, they X2 the CPU to 8mhz, 4x the RAM, 2x the VRAM. Notice a pattern? Both systems were not NEW consoles, but they had their main processor and main source of RAM doubled and quadrupled respectively.

I'm not saying the New3DS will do this, but, there is a micro-history of this, the only case that didn't do this was the GBA which instead jumped to having a backlit to sharper backlit screen instead along with the anomaly the micro. I can't say I'd be safe to assume anything, but given it's running Xenoblade as a starter tip off seller game I guarantee you this pattern could continue. The ARM11 (1ghz dual core) main CPU in the 3DS was not clocked to the max, it like the other 2 systems was half that, so the room is there without buying a new chip exactly. And then the GPU it has, the PICA200 they didn't max that either, they halved it and it uses 6MB of VideoRAM, so that could go up to a 400mhz chip from 200mhz and more VRAM added too. The system has just 128MB of RAM, so it wouldn't be hard to believe they could 2-4x that over without a cost that would put the system off the quoted price online in Yen currently converted back to USD where it could be priced as the 3DS/XL were when they launched.

Perhaps that's roughly what we're looking at? N3Ds being a 2ghz dual (or quad) core ARM11 backed with a fully clocked PICA200 at 400mhz, 256 to 512MB of RAM to use, and then the other knowns given out so far. That could be a hell of a nice handheld capable of doing quite a lot, while still depending on usage allow like on GBC and DSI games that are or are not specific to it with proper branding and form factor to the game card.

[Leo_A]

Perhaps that's roughly what we're looking at? N3Ds being a 2ghz dual (or quad) core ARM11 backed with a fully clocked PICA200 at 400mhz, 256 to 512MB of RAM to use, and then the other knowns given out so far. That could be a hell of a nice handheld capable of doing quite a lot, while still depending on usage allow like on GBC and DSI games that are or are not specific to it with proper branding and form factor to the game card.

Even if it is, as I said, with 45 million standard 3DS systems out there and production continuing at least into next year, I guarantee you that it won't be very common to see a game like Xenoblade that can't run on earlier hardware. No publisher is going to be eager to leave behind a big chunk of the system's audience just to get a little extra power.

We don't know what the specifications are on this, we won't even know just what has improved internally. We're assuming it's enhanced in several ways since Xenoblade Chronicles won't run on anything else, but we don't have any facts. The DS saw its power boosted with the DSi and the DSiXL as well and look at how that turned out. Next to nothing was released that actually took advantage of that. So no matter how it happens, I think we need to keep our hopes in check a bit.

I don't think this will be another Game Boy Color where a ton of them were built, lots of software were produced that could optionally take advantage of it for enhancements like full color graphics, and a healthy percentage that were developed as Game Boy Color exclusives.

I suspect when all is said and done, the lineup of New 3DS software will be a small one just like the line of software that could only run on the DSi. Most DSi enhanced games ended up just being normal DS games playable on any DS that just did it in order to be region locked.

Unless someone loved DSiWare, the enhanced CPU and RAM ended up being all but meaningless for the customer (The list of DSi only game cards consisted of about a half dozen shovelware releases).

[Tupin]

All this improvement, but still a resistive touch screen. In 2014.

[kupomogli]

I posted this in another forum. It's a genius idea, just fucks over the fans.

The idea of the New 3DS is really draconion, but genius nonetheless. Instead of releasing a brand new portable this new model is pretty much the Gameboy Color of the 3DS. It's more powerful so it'll be able to play a few new games, but most games will be playable on both models, so even when the original model gets phased out, regular 3DS games will still be coming out.

This new model is for a few exclusives here and there along with dual analog that people who haven't purchased a 3DS will buy into, and these exclusives are going to be interesting enough, plus the extra analog, to force an upgrade on some of those who have already bought a 3DS and 3DS XL. So Nintendo's plan is to make all their profit from the new hardware rather than the games.

The genius doesn't stop there, because not only the above, but they also stop the Vita from making any headway. If Nintendo released a brand new portable, the power of the 3DS compared to the DS, most developers would focus on the New 3DS graphics than those compatible with the regular 3DS, and since they're so close in power and the Vita already having six million in sales, there's a good chance they make it multiconsole with the Vita. Since it's just like a GBC though, most developers will develop for the weaker 3DS side where all players can purchase it, and then once sales of the New 3DS increase, they'll later start developing New 3DS exclusives.

Genius move for Nintendo but ultimately screws the fanbase over unless they want to purchase the newer version and Sony from getting any headway with the Vita.

Additionally, Sony still has a chance to be successful with the Vita though. Sony really has to bank on the next Nintendo portable being a lot more powerful than the New 3DS but weaker than the Vita. Sony can relaunch the Vita and talk with developers that there's already 10 million(which by then the Vita may have,) so why not do multiconsole versions of their games with the Vita version and point out how many Vita owners buy a lot of games. Because Sony's pointed out several times that the Vita game sales are good with the games we actually receive. This will also look good on Sony for keeping a single portable through two generations of Nintendo portables as well, so they can make their next portable and maybe people will actually think about it and purchase that one.

If you really think about it, it does seem that Nintendo purposefully gimps their portables on purpose so they can later sell the upgrade, selling multiple versions of the same portable to the same millions of people. The DS had the XL and then they only launch with the non XL version of the 3DS. Despite all the begging from day one of the regular 3DS, they don't include a second analog stick on the XL version, even after releasing a dual analog add on on the original. Now they add the dual analog version with this upcoming New 3DS. It's like this for every Nintendo portable to date.

--

I'll be purchasing it eventually, but I'm pretty pissed off about it. And it's clear Nintendo knows what they're doing launching a game like Xenoblade Chronicles with it. I'm pretty sure we're going to see games like Super Mario Galaxy, etc, release to it as well.

One thing I really hate is that they're keeping the same 240p resolution. They could atleast double resolution. Lower resolution means they'll keep that damn staple that they have for portable games since the DS where the screen is zoomed far in because they want to show detail but don't have the resolution to do so and keep the game zoomed out. Has Nintendo not played a Vita and saw how absolutely beautiful an increase in resolution makes a game look without zooming all the way in on the player characters nutsack. Stop being cheapskates. Damn.

[kupomogli]

Someone in VGChartz brought up something that makes me think this new 3DS could be the home/portable console Nintendo was thinking of.

"Could This Actually Work? The "New 3DS/XL" become a Gamepad Substitute for the WiiU? Thus Making a $150-$200 Gamepad-Less SKU for WiiU in the future?"

This New 3DS now has all the same buttons as the Wii U gamepad, it now has more RAM and more CPU speed to possibly be able to stream games like the Wii U can to the gamepad. Not only could Nintendo sell a $150-$200 version without the gamepad when this New 3DS starts to sell, but they could create a Wii U/New 3DS bundle for $350/$400 that includes both console and portable, making the portable/console in one concept that we heard awhile ago actually be a reality although different from what we were thinking(or atleast I was thinking, I was thinking Turbo Express Portable like.)

[Leo_A]

I very much doubt it. What I read said that the resolution was staying the same at 320x240 pixels. Not only is that a huge drop from the Wii U gamepad's 854x480 resolution, it's also not even the same aspect ratio. Wii U is 16:9 while the touch screen of the 3DS is 4:3.

I'd like to see it, though. Especially if it had the reverse capability of streaming 3DS games to the Wii U so that games like Link Between Worlds wouldn't be limited to the small screen.

[ProjectCamaro]

Now I will be able to get a standard 3DS cheap, awesome.

[Tanooki]

Just throwing this out there as a few of you like kupo there make a good point, but you are aware that the 3DS does have the capability to have an entirely NON-3D game made for it right? When you take the 3D aspect away from it, the resolution doubles since you're not having to generate two images on the panel for the 3D effect. That top panel is 400x240p but in a non-3D at all possible game, the boosted room given not casting dual images allows in the same work space to do 800x240p. Just something to consider when thinking about that possibly not so screwball idea of using it for a WiiU panel. Long shot, but possible I'd put into that category.

The WiiU tablet screen is 854x480.

[Tupin]

I really hope this extra power is used. Rumor has it they doubled the RAM and added more VRAM.

The upgrade from the DS Lite to DSi was miniscule, right? No actual real change in hardware like this is?

[Leo_A]

When you take the 3D aspect away from it, the resolution doubles since you're not having to generate two images on the panel for the 3D effect. That top panel is 400x240p but in a non-3D at all possible game, the boosted room given not casting dual images allows in the same work space to do 800x240p. Just something to consider when thinking about that possibly not so screwball idea of using it for a WiiU panel. Long shot, but possible I'd put into that category.

As I understand it, it doesn't work like that. In 2D mode, the resolution of the upper screen is still 400×240. That's why you'll find that figure commonly cited for the 2DS.

Even if it does, you're not talking about the touch screen so it's not applicable to this scenario. If the New 3DS was going to double as a Wii U gamepad substitute, the gamepad stream is going to have to be displayed on the 2D 4:3 touch screen.

Like I said, I don't see them utilizing this thing's 320x240 4:3 touch screen as a substitute for the Wii U's 854x480 16:9 touch screen. The difference in resolution and aspect ratio is just too great, I believe.


I really hope this extra power is used. Rumor has it they doubled the RAM and added more VRAM.

The upgrade from the DS Lite to DSi was miniscule, right? No actual real change in hardware like this is?

No, it was pretty substantial. Other than doodads like the enhanced audio, internet, storage, and camera abilities, it also doubled the clock speed on its ARM9 processor and quadrupled the amount of RAM.

But those features, despite the DSi/DSiXL being a huge sales success, never were really utilized to a significant degree.

[Jorpho]

Man, I've lost patience with these debates. I guess I'm getting old.

At least this finally explains why Nintendo hasn't made a proper rerelease of Xenoblade Chronicles for the Wii. Rather clever move, that.


The kicker to me is that extra stick and set of top buttons. Let's be serious, between the hardware tweaks and then adding that stuff along with that Xenoblade port I think they're going to be trying to gobble up as many last gen or gen before(wii/gc/ps2) era ports and conversions as possible plus anything computer/tablet with pad based stuff from now too. This could effectively stretch out the 3DS life for a good stretch revitalizing the slagging sales on it which they need since the WiiU is crushing their wallet. These simple added stick and buttons plus the core system fixes will really get third parties wanting to more open up again to bringing games because it'll be easier when you have a standard controller now in your hands.If the extra stick mattered to developers, then the Circle Pad Pro would have gotten a lot more attention than it has. 'Nuff said.

[kupomogli]

It says the screen size will be bigger. What if the increased screen size means that it'll still be 240p, but the bottom screen will be 16:9 instead of 4:3.

[Leo_A]

That certainly helps, but not only do I think that resolution would still be a significant issue, you'd be annoying the masses that buy something and expect every bit of screen real estate be used, regardless if what's displayed on-screen is correct or not.

Not a single 3DS game today is programmed with 16:9 touch screen support in mind. And even if stretching it was acceptable to pacify this large segment, I wonder if that would play havoc with touch screen inputs or if it could be easily worked around when the 320 × 240 touch screen is stretched across 80 additional horizontal pixels.

That said, they released pictures. It's still 4:3. And screen size is changing only slightly. New 3DS is 1.2 times the size of the 3DS while the XL models stay the same. And resolution, I believe, is confirmed as staying the same.

http://images.nintendolife.com/news/2014/08/talking_point_nintendo_brings_life_to_the_3ds_with _new_models/attachment/0/630x.jpg

[Tanooki]

Jorpho, not necessarily. The extra stick on the side was an added $20+shipping (or tax.) Having to buy a part to enjoy a third party guys games is considered a risk for a limited market, having the stick built in is not a risk, it's just part of the system. I do get your point though. You are right it's a genius move on their part on not doing Wii games on 3DS or Gamecube for that matter either. You add the one missing parts (the stick, +2 top buttons), un-gimp the existing parts bringing them up to actual potential, boost the RAM and you got a nice Wii and GC port box they can exploit on the cheap. Xenoblade is a hell of a way to say, bend over, you know you want it.

Looking at it with the 3DS up in size by 1.2x for the panels, I'm not sure if I'd want that or the XL model again. I really was fine either way on the other, but I wanted the XL because I liked the form factor, the slightly better screen, speakers, and boost the battery saw too along with that larger SD card thrown in. With them this time out the same moment in time and being the same other than the pop off shell and still somewhat larger screen, there's no real benefit blowing the added dough.

[kupomogli]

http://images.nintendolife.com/news/2014/08/talking_point_nintendo_brings_life_to_the_3ds_with _new_models/attachment/0/630x.jpg

Wtf is this? The redesign looks like absolute ass. They put a start and select button in the bottom right corner taking up a large amount of space, the button layout is exactly the same, and the c stick is shoved into the small portion of space above the buttons and between the screen. Really Nintendo, why not base the upgrade on the 3DS XL where the start and select are plastic hinges below the screen and that wide open area below the abxy face buttons, you could move the face buttons to that section and then put the c stick where the buttons are, directly across the other analog stick.

These companies have no idea what they're doing. Sony stuck the Vita analogs way too close to the face buttons and Nintendo puts the second analog in such a ridiculously akward place, both close to the face buttons and the hinge when the system closes. I'm pretty sure playing the 3DS with both analogs and repeated button inputs like L and R will not be an enjoyment.

[Jorpho]

The extra stick on the side was an added $20+shipping (or tax.) Having to buy a part to enjoy a third party guys games is considered a risk for a limited marketExcept with the current installed userbase, the people with the new 3DS will also constitute a "limited market".


These companies have no idea what they're doing.Ugh. They are dealing with million-dollar markets (possibly billions, I haven't been keeping track). Thousands of jobs are at stake and there is no shortage of highly talented people who would relish the opportunity to come work for them. So which is more likely? That they have no idea what they are doing, or that they have already considered everything you suggested and, for reasons that are not immediately clear to a public with no knowledge whatsoever of the internal machinations of the company, arrived at their current conclusion?

[Tupin]

Hopefully Xenoblade actually using the system's capabilities (like the DSi really didn't, the camera was the big thing with DSi exclusives) will cause more developers to be interested in exclusives.

[Tanooki]

I bet it will. The secondary thing with the DSi which they foolishly never advertised was the double speed CPU and 4x RAM on it. A good many games, some pretty decent ended up using that. I happened at the time to have the Sonic genesis emulation package for it and both models of DS handy and man was there a difference in the smoothness and speed of the Sonic games on the ungimped DSi hardware.

If they really do use all that added room I mentioned is possible in the other thread if they maxed out the existing hardware and upped the ram they could do a lot. The thing is they really need to advertise the crap out of the beefier specs, the clean 3D at wide angles, the Amiibo internal support, all of it, not selectively and it'll help.

[Leo_A]

Wasn't foolish advertising features that almost were never taken advantage of.

There aren't many DSi enhanced games (Perhaps 100, at this point) and they're almost all things like iCarly, Cars, Barbie, the Imagine lineup, etc. That crowd could care less that something like the RAM was increased. About the only thing worth playing for folks like ourselves is the Sonic collection. And while that indeed seems to take advantage of the DSi for smoother performance, almost all of these just were classified this so as to be region locked.

And only four games were full DSi only titles that took full advantage of the hardware and were locked out of playing on DS and DS Lites. And they were all garbage.

From the gamer's standpoint, unless someone bizarrely fell in love with the weak selection of DSiWare downloads off the eShop (Games that presumably regularly utilized these resources since they didn't have to be coded to be playable on the DS/DS Lite), the added RAM and the faster clock speed on the ARM9 were meaningless where gaming was concerned.

And I can't imagine it pushed something like the internet browser into truly usable territory, either.


I happened at the time to have the Sonic genesis emulation package for it and both models of DS handy and man was there a difference in the smoothness and speed of the Sonic games on the ungimped DSi hardware.

Out of curiosity, ever take it for a spin on a 3DS? How'd it perform?

[Tanooki]

Sorry can't help you unless I go googling to see if someone else did. Not long after buying the 3DS I realized how much the DS didn't have any replay value for me personally so I got rid of everything ultimately other than FF3 and even now I"m uncertain why I have it since I don't use it. :) The DS was a wild and fun ride off and on, but it never got me the pleasure the GBA did or the consistent use either. My 3DS use is spotty I won't lie, but it's more about the whole living situation, not the games, as I like what I have and have kept much of what I bought too.

[Tupin]

Kind of funny that they improved the 3D, it was a fad that was big when it originally came out but mostly seems to be gone by this point. A lot of games have good use of the effect, so I'm glad to see viewability is better.

[Leo_A]

Sorry can't help you unless I go googling to see if someone else did.

It was a stupid question anyways. It can play DSiWare downloads, so Sonic Classics logically should run as if it was on a DSi.

My DS is mostly kept busy these days by the several classic compilations it received. I'll have to add the Sonic collection one of these days.

[Tupin]

So is there a prospect of more GCN/Wii ports onto this thing?

[Rickstilwell1]

I'm glad I just stuck with the launch 3DS. Change after change is just crazy with Nintendo's handhelds. Better wait till it achieves its ultimate form before upgrading. In other words, wait for the successor, buy the weird exclusives used.

[Tanooki]

Tupin, very strong case for it I'd think. Given what the 3DS stock is capable of, despite being limited to 1/2 the power on the CPU(main) and the GPU, and knowing this thing probably since Nintendo is cheapo big time will be the same parts likely ungimped with more RAM thrown on top, the overhead would very well be there to deal with some Gamecube and tweaked Wii (waggle out!) games as well thanks to that c-stick being thrown into the mix. If you imagine that stick below the XYBA buttons it's a controller much in tune with the Wii/UU Pro Pad or even the Gamecube as well. This definitely opens a cheap and easy door for Nintendo and third parties who didn't pass on the GC or Wii to get some quick cash in re-runs, and also given the control lay out you could see other PS2 or better ports too potentially.

[Tupin]

Thing is that with the DSi there was never a killer app that was a physical release to take advantage of the power. DSiWare was a thing, but Nintendo was draconian on what could be on there and how large it could be.

Xenoblade, one of the most popular RPGs of the last five years, has more weight and proof that it isn't just a minor improvement or something that doesn't really affect stuff.

What I think may be more likely than a game being a New DS exclusive is 3DS games having a New 3DS mode where they take advantage of some (but not all) features of the New 3DS when played on one.

[Tanooki]

I can see that, but can Nintendo deliver that? History shows they're not that good doing that. They seem to go with a few gimmicky ideas and then force them into a game where it causes the fluidity of them to feel jacked up or shoehorned in to just make use of justifying the hardware which is awful. If they do it, I hope it's done right for once. Xenoblade does show they're definitely beefing up the hardware to handle that Wii game, and gives a taste of what potential could be pushed even if it's just PS2/PC/GC era type ports of existing stuff. Perhaps Square-Enix known to beat the dead horse could just throw KIngdom Hearts 1 and 2 out there yet again. :P