RetroQuest Games - New GBA Repros (uses new parts) Fire Emblem, Earthbound, DQ, Oriently Blue, more

[Tanooki]

I'm friends with the person who runs RetroQuest Games who does reproductions and the like. Since he hasn't an account on here I offered to copy his 'press release' so anyone could check it if out if they like. There's a series of GBA games that have been done, they're using new parts, so it's not a solder job.

Once in a lifetime opportunity! limited quantities!

I guess you have been wondering why we have been so silent lately; no new releases, no more CIB games, no juice! Well this is because we have been super busy working on the BEST Repro release on the history of Repros!

We have been working in a once in a lifetime, limited quantity, super awesome, super collective, GBA repro release. We have carefully chosen the best GBA translations out there that offer the BEST player experience over all and we have them here for you! We have used ALL of our remaining material for GBA repros that we have on this and we have put all our heart and sweat so you can play these games on your original hardware! So with no further due please be amazed by the list of these new GBA games! By the way, if you are an RPG junkie like us you will love it. The games are up and ready to "Pre-order" on our website (the carts are already made but we are taking pre-orders to be able to sort through shipping and handling). After you purchase you should be able to receive your game(s) within 2–3 weeks depending where does your order stand in the list.

So click this link : http://store.retroquestgames.com/... to buy and be first in line in this limited opportunity.

The titles we have for you are:

Fire Emblem Fuuin no Tsurugi, Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart, Oriental Blue Ao No Tengai, Invader, Super Robot Taisen J, and Mother 1+2 (Only 1 is translated/saves) This is added to the existing game Mother 3 which has been up for sale for awhile now.

Remember this games have been translated 100% into English and are fully playable, they work on your original GBA hardware and provide you with hours of fun playtime! Soon we will also have Gensou Suikoden Card Stories ready to purchase but we ran into a saving problem.

Spread the word and support this cause! we will use the funds we acquire to bring you more and better projects like this one. If you are planning to order 3 or more please inquiry on our site to provide you a discount coupon.

Don't forget... Keep Retro Gaming Alive!

** Apparently this is supposedly the last release they'll be doing of this kind of stuff, so I guess when it's gone it's gone for good as they're getting out of the racket.

[old_skoolin_jim]

Wow, those prices are pretty great. Thanks for sharing!

[Tanooki]

Yeah it's not bad. I think he's using the same supplier as DXS over on NA did awhile back for the DQM Caravan Heart game I have (up for sale now, no time for it) and he broke down the costs just in parts. Because I helped him with research and the rest I basically just paid for the pieces and got the label and gba (real) cart shell and shipping free at $35. So at $50-55 for a game with saving on it, it's actually super reasonable as there's not much overhead there if you do the math. I think he said he ordered around 500 carts between the various games too, the largest I think were FE, DQM and Oriental Blue like 130/ea, the rest are just a few copies being less popular (invader, the card capture stuff) so it wasn't a huge mass order which would drop the costs lower.

[Blitzwing256]

and I assume part of the cost is going to the people who put in the hard work to translate the roms right?

[Az]

The problem with projects like this is most (not all of course) GBA manufacturers turn around and sell these games to anyone else that's interested rather than keeping the exclusively to the original purchaser. I noticed a half-dozen different GBA manufacturers on a certain website selling the English translated version of Mother 3 for around $4 USD each. Someone had originally went through them in the past for a production run of the cart and it's now openly for sale to anyone.

While the original owner/purchaser in that particular instance has no legal rights to the product it sucks when that happens to a real, original homebrew title. That's just a chance you take when dealing with overseas manufacturers unfortunately.

[Tanooki]

Blitz you know that's not true, no one ever does that unfortunately. I will say though awhile back he was talking to me about tracking down the translators to offer a cut, never heard if any deals were made so I'd assume probably not.

Az that's an interesting story and I can totally see that. You send some punks a project, they make the project, then screw you with your own data with a contract loophole, or being from HK or the like not caring and then rob you blind. My understanding of it is the RQ stuff is sent blank, data written locally so that's prevented at least. Not like someone couldn't just dump it anyway and do it on their own though.

[Daria]

Blitz you know that's not true, no one ever does that unfortunately.

Just because it's standard practice doesn't make it ok.

[Blitzwing256]

Well good luck ,I'm sure you'll make lots of money selling other peoples work, probably not the best place to advertise it here, pretty sure DP still has rules about stealing other people's work and trying to sell it.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

what exactly is being sold here?

flashcarts running one rom?

are these boxed with custom manuals and such or what?

[Gameguy]

You send some punks a project, they make the project, then screw you with your own data with a contract loophole, or being from HK or the like not caring and then rob you blind.
Sort of like taking the work of other people and having it manufactured on a cart for profit. I guess it's just something bootleggers have to deal with. It's still cool to own a bootleg of this, though I would never pay that much for it.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Jesus Fucking Christ, those asshats NEVER LEARN.

Get your limited edition bootleg crap now before they get sued to oblivion!


Blitz you know that's not true, no one ever does that unfortunately. I will say though awhile back he was talking to me about tracking down the translators to offer a cut, never heard if any deals were made so I'd assume probably not.

Yes, because I'm pretty sure we all told RetroQuest to go fuck itself. Well, I did. I think other people may have been nicer about it.

[Tanooki]

Wow did not expect this response, I was just doing a favor. I'm not them I won't get a penny out of it. Considering how many sites seem to quietly give a pass on so called reproduction games I didn't think it would be an issue. If you want someone to attack there's a facebook for them that has put out 'press releases' on doing this, so you can comment there how much they suck.

Satoshi, nothing that interesting, just new boards with the game flashed to it in a normal gba clamshell, no papers as far as I was told.

Gameguy, neither would I. I tend to not pay more for a game than an original retail standard on stuff, $50 is too much, and I really am not interested in those strategy/rpgs in that list. I never said it was 'ok' it just is what it is and I was just being nice posting that, end of story. Biting my head off does no good as I have no say in the matter.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Wow did not expect this response, I was just doing a favor. I'm not them I won't get a penny out of it. Considering how many sites seem to quietly give a pass on so called reproduction games I didn't think it would be an issue. If you want someone to attack there's a facebook for them that has put out 'press releases' on doing this, so you can comment there how much they suck.

Satoshi, nothing that interesting, just new boards with the game flashed to it in a normal gba clamshell, no papers as far as I was told.

Gameguy, neither would I. I tend to not pay more for a game than an original retail standard on stuff, $50 is too much, and I really am not interested in those strategy/rpgs in that list. I never said it was 'ok' it just is what it is and I was just being nice posting that, end of story. Biting my head off does no good as I have no say in the matter.

Did you already forget the huge fight we had over this in the previous repro thread? The one where several people agreed that selling repro carts with translations was fucking shady? THE ONE YOU STARTED, (http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?171872-The-hypocrisy-of-reproductions) which you titled "The hypocrisy of reproductions"?

[Tanooki]

Yeah actually I did. I think I said I'm in support of them for expensive games, stuff we didn't get, but only if they didn't mutilate existing games and used new parts. Translations are derivative works anyone of an original foreign language script so it's not like the amateur translators own it anyway. After awhile it went nuts, I mentally checked out, you got up on a platform about glorified bootlegs and I believe I said I'd buy them if the price was right.

[Daria]

I love the collectors that get up in arms about destroying carts, but are a-ok with buying other people's stolen work because "It's just not the same experience if it's not on real hardware".

Fucking priorities people.

Or when those same collectors get pissed that someone bootlegs a rare game because it undermines market value, although that's a phenomenon I've only really noticed on NA.

[xelement5x]

I love the collectors that get up in arms about destroying carts, but are a-ok with buying other people's stolen work because "It's just not the same experience if it's not on real hardware".

Fucking priorities people.

Or when those same collectors get pissed that someone bootlegs a rare game because it undermines market value, although that's a phenomenon I've only really noticed on NA.

Preach on brotha!

[Tanooki]

I don't have priorities, they're just old dead games to me so I just don't care. :) My caring I do have is I just don't like seeing existing stock cannibalized is all. It's going to happen no matter what, so I'd rather it be with new parts, that's all.

I agree with the NA butthurt behavior as it is no more hypocritical anywhere else than that site when it comes to games and so called repros. It's ok to pilfer NTSC-J or any PAL title, but if you dare try and make a financially responsible rip off of a US game worth hundreds, it's time for a lynching and at least a few crosses to nail the whining martyrs to as well. I found it cute when they mauled a guy who converted Earthbound to a PAL game and was going to produce that for the UK/EU as the howling about wrecking the value of that one went nuts between the dollar sign trolls and the earthbound fanboys in some perfect storm.

[dra600n]

Just because it's standard practice doesn't make it ok.

You will see a lot of double standards with this group


Jesus Fucking Christ, those asshats NEVER LEARN.

Yes, because I'm pretty sure we all told RetroQuest to go fuck itself. Well, I did. I think other people may have been nicer about it.
+1


Did you already forget the huge fight we had over this in the previous repro thread? The one where several people agreed that selling repro carts with translations was fucking shady? THE ONE YOU STARTED, (http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?171872-The-hypocrisy-of-reproductions) which you titled "The hypocrisy of reproductions"?

Ha! Now that's just too funny

[Daria]

I don't have priorities, they're just old dead games to me so I just don't care. :) My caring I do have is I just don't like seeing existing stock cannibalized is all. It's going to happen no matter what, so I'd rather it be with new parts, that's all.

I agree with the NA butthurt behavior as it is no more hypocritical anywhere else than that site when it comes to games and so called repros. It's ok to pilfer NTSC-J or any PAL title, but if you dare try and make a financially responsible rip off of a US game worth hundreds, it's time for a lynching and at least a few crosses to nail the whining martyrs to as well. I found it cute when they mauled a guy who converted Earthbound to a PAL game and was going to produce that for the UK/EU as the howling about wrecking the value of that one went nuts between the dollar sign trolls and the earthbound fanboys in some perfect storm.

I'm just saying, there's a lot more concern for inanimate objects than there are for people in this hobby. Unless you're talking someone else's bottom line, then suddenly it's major drama.

[Gameguy]

I noticed a half-dozen different GBA manufacturers on a certain website selling the English translated version of Mother 3 for around $4 USD each. Someone had originally went through them in the past for a production run of the cart and it's now openly for sale to anyone.
There was a thread on Nintendo Age with someone planning to order 1000 carts for $3200, I'm not sure if he went through with the order though.

http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?StartRow=1&catid=31&threadid=46334

By chance, Tanooki happened to be the first person to reply to that thread. $3.20 per game does seem more reasonable for something like this.


While the original owner/purchaser in that particular instance has no legal rights to the product it sucks when that happens to a real, original homebrew title. That's just a chance you take when dealing with overseas manufacturers unfortunately.
In a way it's funny how people are surprised with this, a company has no problems with producing and selling pirated products and people are surprised that they will continue to produce and sell these items after the initial order is completed. It's almost like you can't trust criminals.


I love the collectors that get up in arms about destroying carts, but are a-ok with buying other people's stolen work because "It's just not the same experience if it's not on real hardware".
I get bothered when uncommon good games get destroyed to make bootlegs, it just makes it harder to find these good games. I still like the idea of owning games that are otherwise not available, of course I'd rather there would be legit versions available instead. I'm sure plenty of people here collect pirates, bootlegs, and multicarts so it's not like everyone here is perfect. I guess it feels more appropriate if these are bought second hand as the pirates don't get money this way.


Or when those same collectors get pissed that someone bootlegs a rare game because it undermines market value, although that's a phenomenon I've only really noticed on NA.
I'm personally bothered by this because it makes it easier to get ripped off when buying rarer games, with good labels you can't really tell if something is fake until you see it in person. I've seen someone locally sell their NES collection on craigslist and there was a copy of Stadium Events in one of the pictures, the label was poor quality though so I knew it was fake. If the label looked high quality and I bought a large lot just to get a single game that turned out to be fake, I'd be pretty upset. It's also why I dislike replacement labels.


It's ok to pilfer NTSC-J or any PAL title, but if you dare try and make a financially responsible rip off of a US game worth hundreds, it's time for a lynching and at least a few crosses to nail the whining martyrs to as well.
It's the difference between a bootleg and a counterfeit. Maybe you could look into the difference to better understand it?

[Tanooki]

I'm just saying, there's a lot more concern for inanimate objects than there are for people in this hobby. Unless you're talking someone else's bottom line, then suddenly it's major drama.

You got that right and it is sickening, places like NA are ground zero for that kind of ego and abuse. Its more about the cash value than the item these days and all the seven deadly sins surrounding it.


Gameguy, I know the difference with a counterfeit and a bootleg, theyre close but different and both I happily support in oldgaming stuff now. The tactics and tantrums over at NA made that super clear to me. It plays back to what Daria said Iquoted to reply off of. Its all about the money now and Id rather see the whole process that currently exists get punished as its wrecking everything. I await the implosion just like with other hobbies wrecked over the decades by greed and if dead accurate boots and counterfeits move it along great. If it looks, sounds, and plays he same, thats cool. I know its not a popular stance with some but so be it. The money aspect has stopped me almost cold buying old games due to all the bs.

[Gameguy]

Gameguy, I know the difference with a counterfeit and a bootleg, theyre close but different and both I happily support in oldgaming stuff now. The tactics and tantrums over at NA made that super clear to me. It plays back to what Daria said Iquoted to reply off of. Its all about the money now and Id rather see the whole process that currently exists get punished as its wrecking everything. I await the implosion just like with other hobbies wrecked over the decades by greed and if dead accurate boots and counterfeits move it along great. If it looks, sounds, and plays he same, thats cool. I know its not a popular stance with some but so be it. The money aspect has stopped me almost cold buying old games due to all the bs.
It's not about the money. You still don't get why people oppose it.

[Daria]

Isn't it about the money though? The usual argument I hear made about bootlegs being bad are: a. They flood the market with fakes possibly lowering the value of legitimate copies or b. someone may waste their money accidently buying a bootleg in a hypothetical situation

I'm not discounting these arguments mind you. In fact buying GBA games can be a total pain in the ass with the prevelence of bootleg carts floatig around. My problem is that these concerns, which are all about the possible loss of money, take precedence over how reproduction manufacturers are capitalizing on the free labor of others. The general line of thinking goes: These bootlegs over here are bad because they could hurt me given the right situation, but these bootlegs over here are fine because that guy doesn't technically have the legal right to his work. (Plus this game looks so damn sexy on my shelf!)

It's a rather self absorbed point of view, and it's way too common in this community (collectors as a whole, not DP specifically).

[Gameguy]

I'll agree that a part of it is about money and devaluing games, but there's more to it than that and the money aspect isn't what really bothers me personally. Your mention of B is kind of my issue but more for making it difficult to find legitimate versions than wasting money on fake ones. For me, it's about the possibility of fake games getting mixed with legit ones. For games that are available legitimately, I want to own a legit version. If I didn't care about having legit versions, I would just have the ROMs to play so I wouldn't waste space with physical carts. With your mention of GBA games you do understand the issue I have.

It's like with bootleg DVDs or burned PS1 games. Does anybody here really see any value in these at all? Plenty of people do buy these at flea markets and the like for a few bucks each, especially people who don't know how to make them themselves. But whenever I get these mixed in bundles I usually just throw these out, or give them away. I don't want garbage taking up space in my home, for DVDs or games actually available legitimately that's all that fake copies are(garbage). Only reason I would really keep a burned PS1 game around is to test if a console is modded or not(or hypothetically if it's not available to play otherwise). Yet real games and real DVDs can still be worth quite a bit if they're rare and in demand, having the ability to pirate these at any time doesn't devalue them. Collectors who want these want them to be legit so they'll be willing to pay for legit ones. With fakes floating around looking legit, it just discourages people from buying them in case it's a fake, or makes it difficult to find a legit copy to buy as there's tons of fake ones to sort through to get to the legit ones.

I'm more bothered with Tanooki's argument that the only reason a person would be bothered by fakes is because it devalues an item, and his condescending views on anyone who disagrees with him on counterfeits(or really any subject) is just irritating. If anyone is against people making fakes of rare games, they're just greedy or butthurt, throwing tantrums. Somehow he's entitled to pirate games just because he wants to play something he can't afford to buy. Supposedly all that should matter is playing the game itself, if this is true than why bother with repro games at all instead of just using a flash cart? This makes even less sense as he enjoys the benefit of playing actual carts on a console that just dumps them to play through emulation, which makes me wonder why not just go with emulating ROMs instead of using carts at all. Why bother having physical bootlegs at all? Or getting upset that people disprove of making these bootleg games? Is it about playing the games or collecting them?

[Gameguy]

My problem is that these concerns, which are all about the possible loss of money, take precedence over how reproduction manufacturers are capitalizing on the free labor of others. The general line of thinking goes: These bootlegs over here are bad because they could hurt me given the right situation, but these bootlegs over here are fine because that guy doesn't technically have the legal right to his work. (Plus this game looks so damn sexy on my shelf!)
I guess I really didn't discuss this aspect with my previous reply, I might as well do that. With these fan translations, the people doing this are mostly doing this as a hobby, they don't expect to be paid for their efforts. Most actually want to avoid being paid to avoid possible legal issues. I guess I don't really see too much of a problem that they're not paid or compensated for their efforts, most people aren't paid for their hobbies. Plus people who make these translations want their work to be shared so many people can enjoy these games that would otherwise be unavailable, otherwise why would these translations be released publically at all?

I don't mind that other people put these games on carts so they can be played on actual hardware, but it does bother me a bit that people do this to make a large profit. Manufacturing these carts in bulk isn't too expensive per unit, but charging $40+ just seems greedy when they put little effort into producing these carts. I guess they would be taking more of a risk if Nintendo decided to go after them, but I agree with you about their greed to make a quick buck like this.

[Blitzwing256]

AT CGE this year ,there was a dealer who was selling these bootlegs, a friend of mine was all excited that he got some zelda hack and the genesis version of megaman, i pointed out they were pirates and asked how much he paid... (i assumed like 10$) and he bought them for 70 and 40 respectively, I was pretty shocked. apparently that dealer made crazy money at the show selling that garbage. he had all sorts of translated games, and even bare knuckle 3...it just boggles my mind.

I've been dealing with bootlegs for decades as I collect vintage toys, and with Star Wars and semi-recently transformers, the bootlegs are becoming so close to the originals, it's really tough for someone who isn't in the know to tell the difference. where there is money to be made, there will be bootlegers, I just hate seeing that garbage get so much positive press and people flocking to them and overpaying for them. crazy times to be a collector of anything.

[zero_limit]

Aren't these all SRAM patched? If I recall correctly, there's no way you can make GBA repros without using SRAM patched ROMs. And that sucks, specially for large RPG games which had EEPROM save in the first place. Actually only a few GBA games even use SRAM saves at all.

[Tanooki]

If you don't like my condescending view towards the entire counterfeit situation, just put me on ignore. NintendoAge and their thought and wallet police tactics of the time I was on there has created that entirely, before hand I would have felt I think much differently. They've clearly shown me how money fucks things up in so many ways with old video game buying/collection and it's sick. Yeah I may be simplifying it, but it is and only is about the money. Sure there's a lot of motivations of why, but it does all tie back to the dollar and that's it. Loss of value of a legit game, someone not being paid for their derivative work translation, people buying bootlegs who may or may not know it, whatever the case. Being mad about fakes that look and function the same as an original is tying it back to the cash value, protecting the original older item because more copies are being thrown out there to devalue it and making it harder to find through all the newer versions...again a money issue. I can technically afford to buy the spendy stuff, I'm just not crazy enough to throw that away on an old game when I can find a cheap accurate to the nose copy that does the same and that's fine. I don't use flash carts anymore because I get all ADHD with the things and enjoy and finish nothing that's on it because I Jump all over the place, plus they're not made of durable stuff historically and I like stuff to last. It's about playing the games, not a wall trophy to me, but the problem is some of the stuff I do have cash wise is a wall trophy and I don't look to let those loose as I'd hate to re-buy them again at cost and finding great copies due to NA like shenanigans isn't easy unless I were to invest in a kazoo writer and some infiniteneslives.com boards. I gave up on collecting, again thanks NA, but it showed me clearly the horrible side, manners and behavior behind it and it turned me off, so it's all about the games. My collecting stops at buying and keeping it around instead of just selling it once I'm done at that time if I feel I'll come back around to it again or I do.

By the way gameguy what do you consider a big profit for games(translated) put on a cart? What I got from these GBA game releases, for the size of the lot purchased and the equipment to flash the data to the chips, there's probably $5 if that made per game. That's hardly gouging after expenses. Now if he were charging like $70 instead of $50 I'd totally agree as it's scummy and would only be undercut by others doing it too for less to drive it back down due to a lack of a monopoly like situation.

[zero_limit]

Being mad about fakes that look and function the same as an original
Not at all if it's using SRAM instead of the original EEPROM and Flash saves. GBA bootleg SRAM usually lasts like a year or two before it stops saving, since the patched save files are much more stressing to the battery.

Also, I still think $50 is too much for a "Repro" like this. A donor bootleg would cost $5 at best and an Mask ROM would be like $2. Burning/Soldering is a pretty easy job too.

Now I'm mainly talking about these GBA "repros", because I'm interested in know if they're in fact SRAM like all the bootleg carts in the market, or if they're actual reproductions using real, official donor carts.

[Daria]

I guess I really didn't discuss this aspect with my previous reply, I might as well do that. With these fan translations, the people doing this are mostly doing this as a hobby, they don't expect to be paid for their efforts. Most actually want to avoid being paid to avoid possible legal issues. I guess I don't really see too much of a problem that they're not paid or compensated for their efforts, most people aren't paid for their hobbies. Plus people who make these translations want their work to be shared so many people can enjoy these games that would otherwise be unavailable, otherwise why would these translations be released publically at all?

So you're cool telling Kitsune Sniper that because he (and his collaborators) don't want to accept money for their work on the Kid Dracula translation that it's fine for other people to sell it in their stead?

The problem isn't that they're not being paid, the problem is is that it's not okay to sell someone else's work.

[Tanooki]

Zero: I'd have to go digging and see if I have it logged still, but I think it's setup like earlier GBA games with a battery that will last as long as the battery does, so it could be that 1-2 year thing if it's a cheap chinese cell, but if there's a solid brand on it like Nintendo used, a lot lot longer. Do you have something about donor bootlegs for GBA stuff? I've never seen a chop shopped GBA bootleg before due to the size constraints in the little plastic shell. I agree $50 is a lot, not argument there, I was just thinking from a cost break down is all. And when I talked about part break downs, these are not Nintendo boards, they're new ones made overseas that get shipped intact, and you can have them or you can do it yourself with the addition of a battery, and then you need a chip writer to put the game onto it as well. Beyond that, not really sure if the cart shell itself is a donor or not.

[bb_hood]

I guess I really didn't discuss this aspect with my previous reply, I might as well do that. With these fan translations, the people doing this are mostly doing this as a hobby, they don't expect to be paid for their efforts. Most actually want to avoid being paid to avoid possible legal issues. I guess I don't really see too much of a problem that they're not paid or compensated for their efforts, most people aren't paid for their hobbies. Plus people who make these translations want their work to be shared so many people can enjoy these games that would otherwise be unavailable, otherwise why would these translations be released publically at all?

I don't mind that other people put these games on carts so they can be played on actual hardware, but it does bother me a bit that people do this to make a large profit. Manufacturing these carts in bulk isn't too expensive per unit, but charging $40+ just seems greedy when they put little effort into producing these carts. I guess they would be taking more of a risk if Nintendo decided to go after them, but I agree with you about their greed to make a quick buck like this.

Very well put. These games should be enjoyed at little to no cost, selling them at 40$+ is just a scam.
The thing that bothers me the most is when these sites make these repros to sell, then act as if they are doing the community a huge service by making these available. They have no right to sell the content AND the content can just as easily be downloaded and played on flash carts. Its taking advantage plain and simple.



The problem isn't that they're not being paid, the problem is is that it's not okay to sell someone else's work.
Yup. Agreed.



Get your limited edition bootleg crap now
This made me laugh, and thats exactly how it is.

[Kitsune Sniper]

So you're cool telling Kitsune Sniper that because he (and his collaborators) don't want to accept money for their work on the Kid Dracula translation that it's fine for other people to sell it in their stead?

The problem isn't that they're not being paid, the problem is is that it's not okay to sell someone else's work.

Actually, I could potentially send a C&D to anyone selling Kid Dracula in particular... because I commissioned the title screen artwork and logo for Kid Dracula from an artist friend who currently lives in Australia. He owns the copyright to the redrawn logo, as far as I'm concerned. And I created the NES graphic conversion of that artwork - so I own the rights to it, along with him.

Not a single person has licensed the artwork from my friend for use in box or label artwork in any commercial project. I may not own the hack, but I am the only person who has permission from the original logo artist to use the artwork. No one else does. It's not meant to be used in any other way.

But you try explaining that to those fuckwads.

[Market Man]

Derivative works of intellectual property belong expressly to the owner of the material infringed, whether that new material has been solicited or not! See Anderson vs Stallone as a fine example of this. So no, you don't own any of that. You basically did translation/graphic hacking for Konami for free. I personally would like to thank you for selflessly putting in the effort to making so many games accessible to a broader audience.

However, if anything, all you have legal claim to is a bag of stale barbecue fritos and a dog dildo crusty with dried vaseline.

Judging by the numb tingling of my crotch, it is presently asleep, but you can be sure you'll be hearing from it later! If anyone wants to punch it to get it up, go right ahead! Daddy likes that.

[nusilver]

what exactly is being sold here?

flashcarts running one rom?

are these boxed with custom manuals and such or what?

Pretty sure I've mentioned this to you at least once before since this is where I got my awesome Mother 3 repro from -- they're flashing new ROMs onto donor boards (or at least, that what they did with Mother 3, which was using a Pokemon board, I don't recall which one.)

[The_Bait]

If you don't like my condescending view towards the entire counterfeit situation

So I had to make an account just for this one. You're bashing counterfeits, in a thread in which you're promoting a counterfeit? What kind of agenda are you running here man?

[Market Man's Crotch]

Zounds, Market Man! I haven't seen so much furry fury in a thread since they canceled Road Rovers!

And remember, kids! No one can steal your paycheck when you work for free!

[Gameguy]

If you don't like my condescending view...
It's not your view on your subject, it's the way you reply back to people. You don't just state your opinion on a subject with your reasoning behind it, you insult anyone who doesn't share your view. When people don't feel the need to buy an HDTV and stick with an old CRT, you call them luddites. When people are against the general idea of counterfeit products, you call them greedy and say they're throwing tantrums. Why can't you participate in a discussion without name calling?


By the way gameguy what do you consider a big profit for games(translated) put on a cart? What I got from these GBA game releases, for the size of the lot purchased and the equipment to flash the data to the chips, there's probably $5 if that made per game. That's hardly gouging after expenses. Now if he were charging like $70 instead of $50 I'd totally agree as it's scummy and would only be undercut by others doing it too for less to drive it back down due to a lack of a monopoly like situation.
Big profit to me is anything more than around $5-$10 above what it costs to have made in materials. You know it would cost less than $5 to have these carts manufactured, it was mentioned in that other thread you posted in. These loose carts shouldn't be priced more than $10, maybe $20 if we're being generous.


So you're cool telling Kitsune Sniper that because he (and his collaborators) don't want to accept money for their work on the Kid Dracula translation that it's fine for other people to sell it in their stead?

The problem isn't that they're not being paid, the problem is is that it's not okay to sell someone else's work.
Why is it ok that these translators are helping make these games more attractive to pirate? What about the actual people responsible for making the games in the first place? I don't hear people saying "since Nintendo didn't release this game in my region, I should avoid playing it entirely." What if the developer eventually wants to release the game in another region? How will these translations affect that? Rondo of Blood eventually got a release on the PSP years later so this can happen.

Game collectors don't really care about rights holders, if there's a game they want to play they'll find a way to play it. It doesn't matter to them if it's not officially available. What if the developers eventually want to release the game legitimately? It doesn't happen often, but look at Nightmare Busters. It was dumped and made available to play online through emulators, but years later it was licensed by Super Fighter Team for an official release.

If a game isn't officially available in a region or language, I'd rather there be some way to experience it so I'm not against translators and I do greatly appreciate their hard work. With making physical cartridges of these translated games they're just something else to help people enjoy playing and appreciating these games, so I don't oppose these existing either. I'm against gouging people or profiting with these releases. Bootlegs are cheaply made and shouldn't cost that much to manufacture, charging high prices for these is like scalping. I'd rather use a flash cart to play these but flash carts can be pretty expensive.

[Tanooki]

I have no idea how to make this sound nice ok? Anyone wanting an out of date CRT in these days is a luddite, that's not an insult as it is defined as: a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology. That definitely fits someone being anti-modern TV. And yes I think people who attack counterfeits as an option are greedy and my experience is they do throw fits when that stuff shows up so I just call it as I see it. Anything that'll knock down the inflated price of an original is fine by me when it comes to long dead old games. Just because you don't like a copycat doesn't mean it's time to pull out the daggers.

$5-10 seems fair. That fits what I was told about those retroquest games as far as costs go after buying that size of shipment of parts, the shipping, then buying the equipment needed to flash the data to the games. That's why I didn't feel it was unreasonable. Yes I know in theory they could be had cheaper, like that aliexpress site where some chinese flash mother 3 games and sell them for like 1/2 that or less on there but you never can beat the source. I guess it's how much they wanted to stick him for parts. I know I wouldn't pay that much to get that junk when I could bulk order from that site for less, but whatever. :)

[Rickstilwell1]

Is Market Man the new Garry Shandling? lol

[RP2A03]

I have no idea how to make this sound nice ok? Anyone wanting an out of date CRT in these days is a luddite, that's not an insult as it is defined as: a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology. That definitely fits someone being anti-modern TV.

Or perhaps it's because I generally find the shortcomings of modern displays more offensive than the shortcomings of CRTs. When they finally figure out how to mass produce field emission displays, then I will gladly give up all my cathode rays. Until then you will have to pry them from my cold, dead hands.

[bb_hood]

I have no idea how to make this sound nice ok? Anyone wanting an out of date CRT in these days is a luddite, that's not an insult as it is defined as: a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology. That definitely fits someone being anti-modern TV. And yes I think people who attack counterfeits as an option are greedy and my experience is they do throw fits when that stuff shows up so I just call it as I see it. Anything that'll knock down the inflated price of an original is fine by me when it comes to long dead old games. Just because you don't like a copycat doesn't mean it's time to pull out the daggers.
:)

You can call me a luddite then. Ive got a 27 inch crt and Id love to get rid of it because it takes up soo much space.. but I cant. Ya know why? When playing systems like Nes,Snes,Turbo Grafix it just looks much better. If I had the space I would get another one.

Repros will not have any effect on the price of original games, because they are NOT originals. Rare games sell for alot because they are rare and getting rarer. Not because someone really wants to play a rom that has been available as free downloads for years.

[Tanooki]

I have to admit I'm surprised as someone taking offense to the word luddite, it's not an insult. :P

I have a CRT too, I'd never use it for watching TV, it just happens to be one of those sharp NES tvs. Since getting it I've had the R5 and a RCA fixed top loader which both outperform it. Honestly if the person was within driving distance and the offer was more than solid enough I'd probably let it go as it just doesn't see much use at all. I'd rather have a pachinko machine or something in that corner. :D Hell with it gone I'd almost surely sell off my remaining N64 games and system too since I won't play that on a LCD at all due to the failings of the n64.

[bb_hood]

I have to admit I'm surprised as someone taking offense to the word luddite, it's not an insult. :P

I have a CRT too, I'd never use it for watching TV, it just happens to be one of those sharp NES tvs. Since getting it I've had the R5 and a RCA fixed top loader which both outperform it. Honestly if the person was within driving distance and the offer was more than solid enough I'd probably let it go as it just doesn't see much use at all. I'd rather have a pachinko machine or something in that corner. :D Hell with it gone I'd almost surely sell off my remaining N64 games and system too since I won't play that on a LCD at all due to the failings of the n64.

Im not offended but I fail to see your point. There is good reason that people still use CRTs, and its not to watch tv. Saying someone is a luddite implies they are simple-minded.
Also, those sharp NES tv sets are not of very good quality. They are more like collectible items rather than quality tv sets for playing retro games.

[Tanooki]

Oh I know they're not high quality. They're kind of just demo units they sold at retail for way too much for just a few months and the coloring on them is off, it's like made for games as the images match the odd coloring you'd see in early gaming magazines that never matched a home television.

[RP2A03]

I have to admit I'm surprised as someone taking offense to the word luddite, it's not an insult. :P

Actually, it generally is used as an insult.

[ZeroCool]

I have no idea how to make this sound nice ok? Anyone wanting an out of date CRT in these days is a luddite, that's not an insult as it is defined as: a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology. That definitely fits someone being anti-modern TV. And yes I think people who attack counterfeits as an option are greedy and my experience is they do throw fits when that stuff shows up so I just call it as I see it. Anything that'll knock down the inflated price of an original is fine by me when it comes to long dead old games. Just because you don't like a copycat doesn't mean it's time to pull out the daggers.

That isn't necessarily true. I'd love to get a bigger CRT for my old NES, SNES,N64 etc. but I also got a 46 inch LED for my PS4, PS3, Wii U and 360.

[Daria]

Why is it ok that these translators are helping make these games more attractive to pirate?
What is this? Lets play a round of shift blame to the victim? That's like asking why is it okay for women to wear low cut dresses when it makes them more attractive to rapists. Regardless, I can't believe I'm pulling out such an obvious cliche, but two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone doesn't have the legal right to make their fan product doesn't mean it's okay for someone else to turn around and sell it. Rom hackers may have no legal ties to their work, but bootleggers are in the moral and legal wrong.



What about the actual people responsible for making the games in the first place? I don't hear people saying "since Nintendo didn't release this game in my region, I should avoid playing it entirely."
The actual rights holders have legal recourse, if Nintendo doesn't like your reproduction project they have no qualms sending you a cease and desist letter and suing you into oblivion. They don't need me in their corner preaching the evils of bootleg merchandise, they got it covered. But in case you were unclear my point of "Don't sell other people's work" isn't necessarily isolated to the work of translators and rom hackers. While we're on the subject don't sell other people's music, artwork, books, movies etc. Also you're got a faulty argument there: I'm not saying you shouldn't "play" these games; I'm saying don't "buy" them from bootleggers.



What if the developer eventually wants to release the game in another region? How will these translations affect that? Rondo of Blood eventually got a release on the PSP years later so this can happen.
Well now you've poised the philosophical question of whether roms are bad business or good advertisement. And that's a whole other debate that digresses from the point.




Game collectors don't really care about rights holders, if there's a game they want to play they'll find a way to play it.
I think you're confusing game collectors with gamers. Gamers want to play their games no matter what, and fortunately for them there's a variety of emulation and hardware options for them to do so. You don't need to buy a bootleg to play a translated/hacked game, even on real hardware. Collectors want something to display on their shelf, or tick off their want list. It's a matter of vanity, and similar to something I stated earlier in the thread, it's a shame when people in this hobby put the love of inanimate objects before the consideration of real people.


I'd rather use a flash cart to play these but flash carts can be pretty expensive.
And just because something's easier or cheaper doesn't make it the right thing to do. :/

[Natty Bumppo]

You can call me a luddite then. Ive got a 27 inch crt and Id love to get rid of it because it takes up soo much space.. but I cant. Ya know why? When playing systems like Nes,Snes,Turbo Grafix it just looks much better. If I had the space I would get another one.



This. As someone with large collections of media - 1000 or so video games, 8000 laserdiscs and 6000 or so dvds, I really don't want to mess around with upscalers to get a (hopefully) picture as decent as that on my 32" CRTS. While I do watch some tv on them, I am not vested enough in tv (from whatever source) that I give a rat's ass about better performance. (I tend to come at this from a perspective heavily influenced by growing up with black and white tvs with small screens and crappy reception - the idea back then that I could own a library of movies and video games (which didn't really exist back then but you get the drift (I hope)) with several degrees of magnitude in improvement in virtually every aspect of presentation wasn't imaginable. The leap forward in HD just doesn't seem to be that important to me in comparison.)

The term Luddite has been perverted (like so much else in this wonderful brave new world we live in) . The real Luddites saw technological innovations as a direct threat to their livelihoods and actually destroyed new machinery as opposed to harboring any love for old machinery - I suspect if the new machinery had not displaced most of them they wouldn't have cared. I also suspect most people who like older electronics don't begrudge people the newer stuff if they like it and that the last thing on their minds would be going over to their friends' abodes (or stores) and smashing their new stuff. From a pragmatic viewpoint, the new stuff tends to drive down the price of the stuff I like. So go for it.

Historically the Luddites had every reason to be suspicious of the motives of the moneyed classes - increasing industrialization tended to make the working classes lives ever more miserable until the advent of more enlightened social attitudes (and a big tip of the hat here to Teddy Roosevelt (amongst many others)) in the early 1900's. Unfortunately things seem to have backslid a lot during the last couple of decades. But what else is new?

[Bratwurst]

Damnit Natty, you need to post more.

[Natty Bumppo]

Damnit Natty, you need to post more.

Then I might never shut up.......

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/9/13372075_228ea98eee_z.jpg

[Daria]

I'd love to get my hands on a nice sony CRT (provided I had room in my home for the beast), and I seriously don't think anyone could describe me as a Luddite (learn a new word everyday) or technophobe and keep a straight face. Shit, I'm posting this from my phone. Different displays are just better suited for different systems.

[Gameguy]

Is Market Man the new Garry Shandling? lol
I don't know who he is but he's pretty awesome. LOL


What is this? Lets play a round of shift blame to the victim? That's like asking why is it okay for women to wear low cut dresses when it makes them more attractive to rapists. Regardless, I can't believe I'm pulling out such an obvious cliche, but two wrongs don't make a right. Just because someone doesn't have the legal right to make their fan product doesn't mean it's okay for someone else to turn around and sell it. Rom hackers may have no legal ties to their work, but bootleggers are in the moral and legal wrong.
Actually in this case it's more like pitying a rapist who was beat up by a vigilante. The original victim would be a company like Nintendo who owns the rights to the game, the rapist is the translator who just does what he wants with the game without permission, and the vigilante is the one selling bootlegs of the games which harms the translator by profiting on his work.

I don't really like this comparison as it's comparing translators to rapists, but in this context it's more accurate than your description. The translator isn't the original victim. Translators may not be in the moral wrong, but they're still in the legal wrong just like the bootleggers.


The actual rights holders have legal recourse, if Nintendo doesn't like your reproduction project they have no qualms sending you a cease and desist letter and suing you into oblivion. They don't need me in their corner preaching the evils of bootleg merchandise, they got it covered. But in case you were unclear my point of "Don't sell other people's work" isn't necessarily isolated to the work of translators and rom hackers. While we're on the subject don't sell other people's music, artwork, books, movies etc. Also you're got a faulty argument there: I'm not saying you shouldn't "play" these games; I'm saying don't "buy" them from bootleggers.
True about the actual rights holders, they can shut down the bootleggers if they really wanted to. Same with stopping a translation project. Most just choose not to fight it as it's not worth their time or money to do so, or doing this could damage their reputation(big bad company attacking small group of hobbyists).

I get the "don't buy them from bootleggers", I would rather play them for free with emulators or use flash carts. Just wondering, do you personally own any bootlegs or multicarts? There's a lot out there, including the Zellers carts for Atari 2600 and the factory pressed bootlegs of Sapphire for Turbo Duo.


I think you're confusing game collectors with gamers. Gamers want to play their games no matter what, and fortunately for them there's a variety of emulation and hardware options for them to do so. You don't need to buy a bootleg to play a translated/hacked game, even on real hardware. Collectors want something to display on their shelf, or tick off their want list. It's a matter of vanity, and similar to something I stated earlier in the thread, it's a shame when people in this hobby put the love of inanimate objects before the consideration of real people.
I would think it's the gamers who would just play the game on an emulator and delete it when they're done, it's the collectors who would be willing to pay for a bootleg to stick it on a shelf. But for older games or obscure series, it's mostly the collectors who would bother to try playing them. Would most gamers even bother trying to play old GBA games anymore? Or try to find old prototype games and try to get them dumped or outright buy them for a personal collection? It's not like prototypes are entirely legitimate, it's common for them to turn up from old employees who just took them home, or from review copies that never made it back to the original company.

Maybe I just worded it poorly, but I meant collectors as enthusiasts describing the majority of people buying physical bootlegs(of obsolete consoles) or prototypes, or people actually interested in translating old games. Would most gamers(casual game players) actually care about any of these things? Like taking the time and effort to translate an old game and release it? I could see a gamer just downloading a game if it was available, but not translating it if it was previously unavailable. With the possible exception of current gen stuff.


This. As someone with large collections of media - 1000 or so video games, 8000 laserdiscs and 6000 or so dvds, I really don't want to mess around with upscalers to get a (hopefully) picture as decent as that on my 32" CRTS. While I do watch some tv on them, I am not vested enough in tv (from whatever source) that I give a rat's ass about better performance. (I tend to come at this from a perspective heavily influenced by growing up with black and white tvs with small screens and crappy reception - the idea back then that I could own a library of movies and video games (which didn't really exist back then but you get the drift (I hope)) with several degrees of magnitude in improvement in virtually every aspect of presentation wasn't imaginable. The leap forward in HD just doesn't seem to be that important to me in comparison.)
You beat me to it, but I was planning to mention the original definition of luddite and how it's even less relevant to Tanooki's use of the word. Thanks for doing a better job of it than I could have. The other modern butchered definition of the word is to describe someone who's actually afraid of using new technology, think of the stereotype of seniors refusing to use computers or microwaves because they're unable to understand how to use them. I am not afraid of the new TVs, that's not why I don't bother with them.

We basically share similar interests with media, only I also have a bunch of VHS tapes which aren't available in other formats. I also don't watch many current TV shows so I don't really care about that, I just use an antenna with a digital converter so I'm only getting under 10 channels which is enough for me. Why do I need to spend money on a new HDTV? If something did happen to my TV and I needed another one, it's easy to get a working higher end CRT for free so that's what I would do. I do use a laptop with it's built in display so I do watch things without a CRT, I still don't necessarily watch things in high definition and I still think CRTs have more accurate colours. If I didn't care about video quality, I would just use any non-CRT display to watch things which is the same as portable DVD players. They're just cheap displays, costing less to manufacture than CRTs.

In a way newer technology makes older stuff cheaper but in other ways it makes it more expensive. For higher end equipment it becomes harder to find examples in good condition, and as new ones can't be purchased people are forced to resort to older models. As these get older, they need servicing which can get expensive, for some items far above the original purchase price even when taking inflation into account. Finding replacement parts and paying for labour can get expensive.

[Rickstilwell1]

I actually paid quite a large sum of money for freight shipping a woodgrain CRT by RCA from 1984 just because it was the closest thing I could find that resembled the TV my grandpa had that I grew up with. The only difference is the design and width of the wooden cabinet. It is still the same kind of wood and uses the same metal parts for a decorative handle, but the wood is not as wide of a footprint (a good thing in my eyes). It even had the picture tube replaced which should increase its lifespan. The screen of the TV appears to be the exact same size as our old one and has the same kinds of knobs/dials for volume and channel selection. It's basically the same electronic components in a slightly different cabinet. It does not have composite jacks and only has a mono speaker but I will do the same thing I did with grandpa's: hook up a VCR to do all my composite video work. What it does have is a coaxial RF input. It will arrive to my place on Monday. I can't wait to un-crate this thing and relive my youth, including all those VHS tapes of cartoons/movies my grandma recorded me when I was too young to do it myself.

I have 8 other TVs as well. One other is a Magnavox woodgrain from probably the late 80s. That thing is a bit more of a pain to move because it is the kind that swivels. It's like ahhh! don't get your finger caught when you lift it with a partner. My cat left her mark by scratching the speaker padding (one of the few things that remains of her after she was likely stolen) and it is cool but if it dies I will probably take it outside for someone to repair or junk because the top of the wood on that is warped from my dad setting beer mugs on top of it over the years. I have so many TVs and I can only accept so many at one time. It best to keep the most nostalgic ones in favor of the later additions.

If I had to choose to get rid of one TV right now, it would be the largest one: the 52" Sony component CRT. Because I have an LCD by Sharp of the same size, and this Sony TV will not work with light guns due to not emitting the correct type of light, it makes it redundant and useless for its point of being a CRT. Its one redeeming quality is nice bass-y built in speakers, but even that is redundant due to my speaker setup. The only thing it is good for is if I have a friend over who wants to play games side by side with me and we don't want to argue over who gets the big screen. Oh, wait, that hasn't even come up yet because I don't have a lot of IRL gamer friends...

[Daria]

Translators may not be in the moral wrong, but they're still in the legal wrong just like the bootleggers.
I never suggested that translators were in the legal right; Of course they're not. But you agree? It is morally wrong to take another person's work and sell it without consent and acknowledgement.


Just wondering, do you personally own any bootlegs or multicarts?
I don't own any multicarts. I do have one bootleg GBA game which I bought off ebay; mistaking it for the real thing. I also own three reproduction NES games which I commissioned from leonk back when I was naive and didn't think about how my actions might affect others. I can't resell them as that would make me a hypocrite, so they sit there on the shelf. I also have a few unlicensed NES games: Tengen and Wisdom Tree stuff. But those fall more under the homebrew category than bootlegs.



...Maybe I just worded it poorly, but I meant collectors as enthusiasts describing the majority of people buying physical bootlegs(of obsolete consoles) or prototypes, or people actually interested in translating old games. Would most gamers(casual game players) actually care about any of these things? Like taking the time and effort to translate an old game and release it? I could see a gamer just downloading a game if it was available, but not translating it if it was previously unavailable. With the possible exception of current gen stuff.

For the month of August Romhacking.net (http://www.similarweb.com/website/romhacking.net), the central source for translation and hacking patches, generated 710k individual hits.
In that same month Atariage (http://www.similarweb.com/website/atariage.com) had 490k visitors, Nintendoage (http://www.similarweb.com/website/nintendoage.com) had 310k, and Digitpress (http://www.similarweb.com/website/digitpress.com) had 170k.

Rom hacking is not a small phenomenon. There are indeed a ton of gamers that are into the classics that don't care about buying the physical cartridges.

As far as I'm aware the translator/collector dynamic is the exception, not the rule. There's, obviously, Kitsune Sniper and Byuu. Some of the other guys buy import titles to dump. But hey, if we weren't stealing their shit maybe more would hang around?

[Az]

I never suggested that translators were in the legal right; Of course they're not. But you agree? It is morally wrong to take another person's work and sell it without consent and acknowledgement.

This get's so confusing after a while. Is there a litmus test somewhere I can take to determine if one is an immoral asshole, or to what extent one is an immoral?

One may view it's morally wrong to take another person's work and sell it (which, again, supporting the "all about money" aspect). Is it morally OK to take another persons work, alter something like the enemy layout or language used, then somehow claim it's "your" work? Or better yet, make it out like "your" work somehow demands more respect (or protection) from the community, that it the importance of what the original authors accomplished is somehow minimized compared to the alterations done by yourself? Should we pay more attention to the mustache on the Mona Lisa and the guy that put it on there with a Sharpie, or the original artist?

Just like "tobacco pipes" & "paper weights" shaped exactly like brass knuckles, when someone peeks under the sheet of flash carts and points out the obvious people come out in droves to defend their actions in this exact order: first it's all for homebrew, next it's all for translations and hacks. Not that me (or anyone) believes that for a second let's say it's true.

So if a guy in the former Soviet bloc blossoms a thriving cottage industry into making money off flash carts (which are used for homebrew and translations, never commercial games, right?), that's acceptable. He has just turned a profit that would have never existed if said homebrew/translations did not exist. He has made more money off Gley Lancer than the original owners did in the past 15 years. But, if a guy makes a one off cartridge in his basement from scraps he deserves 20 lashes? Is the medium the message? If I put a Sanskrit translation of Final Fantasy onto a floppy disk (or host it on my website) and give it to everyone for free it's OK? Is it somehow less morally reprehensible if I host the original Japanese ROM and not Turkish Bug's Bunny Rabbit Rampage?

One popular ROM hosting website has a counter for how many times each ROM has been downloaded. Popular stuff like Mario's are through the roof. Obscure mahjong titles are in single digits. Nobody downloads Japanese text intensive ROMs. Translation comes out? ZOOM, the numbers go up. So how is one to morally, legally put to use these translation patches? I can't download someone else's ROM, that's illegal. I'll buy the real cart then. The only way they'll work with real cart is on a Retron5, which is full of GPL violated software, so I guess that's illegal. So now I've got to hunt down a Chinese floppy ROM dumper from 1994, dump my cart, patch it, then play it on either an emulator or flash cartridge. Whew, that's a lot of work just to stay on a moral high horse, but I guess it's worth it, and nobody made any money on the side from my desire to play this translation. Well... accept for the manufacturer of the cart copier, and the guy that charged me for his emulator on the Google Play store, and the guy that made my flash cart. Ooops!

[Gameguy]

I never suggested that translators were in the legal right; Of course they're not. But you agree? It is morally wrong to take another person's work and sell it without consent and acknowledgement.
I would agree that it's morally questionable, not necessarily wrong or right. What about old films in the public domain? Any company can choose to release old public domain films on DVD without paying anything to use them, is it wrong to do this? The original creators are usually long dead, are they deprived of anything? With these fan translations, they're available for free for people to use anyway and the creators of the translations won't be losing any money, so what's the real difference? Especially when it's not their entire work to begin with.

Slightly different with the Retron5 as those emulators were written from scratch, the original creators can be upset with their stuff just being stolen like that. Plus, that was just stolen so the company could profit from it. With bootleg carts, some people offer them because they enjoy sharing the game to other collectors and admire the finished product(making unreleased games seem as though they've been released, wishing they were official). Not all bootlegs are just made with the pure intention of profiting, some people even make their own repros with no intention of selling any. Other people offer to make repros to help those who can't do it themselves, not really hoping to profit with them.


For the month of August Romhacking.net (http://www.similarweb.com/website/romhacking.net), the central source for translation and hacking patches, generated 710k individual hits.
In that same month Atariage (http://www.similarweb.com/website/atariage.com) had 490k visitors, Nintendoage (http://www.similarweb.com/website/nintendoage.com) had 310k, and Digitpress (http://www.similarweb.com/website/digitpress.com) had 170k.

Rom hacking is not a small phenomenon. There are indeed a ton of gamers that are into the classics that don't care about buying the physical cartridges.

Are you really comparing Romhacking to small forums like this one? IGN has about 20,500,000 monthly visitors, GameFaqs has about 17,500,000 monthly visitors, heck even PC Gamer has about 4,000,000 monthly visitors. So Romhacking, the central source for translation and hacking patches as you've described, only has about 710,000 monthly visitors. That's hardly a majority of all video game players. Plus most visitors going to Romhacking would be just to download the hacks/translations, not to contribute to projects. The quote you've replied to specifically mentioned contributing to translations, not just playing them. I even said I could see gamers downloading and playing these games, it was collectors who would probably buy a physical copy.

http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/video-game-websites

Searching Romhacking, there's 222 members who have worked on translations. This is a worldwide forum, you've described this as the central source for this stuff.


As far as I'm aware the translator/collector dynamic is the exception, not the rule. There's, obviously, Kitsune Sniper and Byuu. Some of the other guys buy import titles to dump. But hey, if we weren't stealing their shit maybe more would hang around?
Keep in mind, when I mean collectors I also mean enthusiasts. Not just people who can afford to buy and store a large collection of physical cartridges. With most people who are gamers or just players, they'll play whatever is current. As soon as a new console is out they'll sell off their old one and all their games, with the general exception of people who never got rid of their old system/s and just wanted to mess around with it again. Old games are becoming more popular lately, but mostly the big name games like the Mario and Zelda titles, or Metroid, Final Fantasy, Sonic, etc. Obscure stuff that wasn't even available in English isn't greatly sought after, and I really don't think people who would dedicate extreme amounts of time to either translating or hacking these titles would be average gamers. They might download a finished project to just see what it's about, but I doubt they would put much effort into contributing to these projects.