Is Buying Recently Released Games as Used Products Almost as Bad for Developers as Pirating Games?

[Nz17]

Now I'm sure this is going to get a lot of replies as it is a matter of opinion and emotion, but what are your thoughts on the deleterious effects on the game developers of the world by buying used products instead of new ones?

A lot of people see no problem in buying used things days, weeks, months, or even years after their initial release. A lot of folks see it just fine to wait until digital games go on mega discounts before buying them, like during Steam's holiday and seasonal sales.

But some game developers see buying used games tantamount to pirating or stealing the things outright. They claim that a used sale is a lost sale, and that buying used products is harming their bottom lines and causing cancellations, layoffs, bankruptcies, and spurring them into selling games only as digital goods instead of physical copies, of including levels and characters as paid DLC, having in-app advertisements, micro-transactions for cosmetic items, and other in-app purchases of various sorts. Other devs are cool with things how things are, and they are happy to give huge holiday discounts on their digital goods to encourage bulk sales which make up for the heavy discounts, i.e. lower price per product times higher volume equals better revenue than higher price per product times lower volume.

What are your thoughts?

[Dangerboy]

As a person who has worked retail for 16 years, across two states, with 3 different gaming stores, I can safely tell you it's all irrational fears.

- Used games have been the scapegoat for companies poor sales forever. Seriously. Forever. This is the 7th time I can remember just on DP this subject matter coming up.

a. This is very important because it's not about *stores* selling used games. It's about *you* selling your used games.

b. No company is going to admit the obvious, and that is used games help sell new games. AAA title releases like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Madden are all the biggest trade-in days because people don't want to pay $60 for a game. They got their game for less by getting rid of physical copies they don't use any more.

c. Digital sales offer no guarantee. I know one company has started trying it (EA I think?), but when you have GameStop offering a 7 day return policy if you don't like a used game, publishers need to step up that kind of guarantee / reassurance.

d. You can't sell a digital game. So if we go digital, you can kiss all those lovely Buy / Sell forums good-bye. I know there are companies trying to figure this part out, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

e. Digital copies rely too much on piracy to keep a legacy. So many games have been removed and gone forever from digital services (due to copyright issues, promotional tie-ins, etc) that the digital realm is becoming a disposable death bed for games. At least with physical copies, I can just jump on the interwebs or ask around to find a physical copy. I'm looking for NES TMNT? I got places. I never got a chance to download TMNT ReShelled? I'm fucked.

There was once an excuse for piracy that "A person who pirates a game was never going to buy it anyway."
A Person who buys used wants to buy the game, they just want to save money or have the chance to get money back if they don't like it. THere is no crime in that.

Companies need to stop using used games as a sob story and just start focusing on developing their games - make it truly worth the $60 to $110+ (Season Pass bullshit) they want to charge.

[Tanooki]

I never worked retail but I do have a good enough understanding of it from the developer side, yet even with that I don't respect it much or understand it other than what it will appear to be.

Developers issue with it is they have a set budget for the development and publishing (to digital rental or retail box) and with that you get assets, inventories, human labor, the cash tied to that, and a time frame. People are not robots, they can be stupid, lazy, blind, whatever and often enough you'll find a project that slides from the small fry up to a big fish. The issue is with the way the market is now, you have these silly budget expectations they need to hit (think of SquareEnix having the balls bitching Tomb Raider 2013/2014 was a failure with over 4M units sold!) Because so many go in throwing so much cash at it they need to sell a crap load of games to not just break even but profit over all operating costs. This causes a hellish situation where they refuse to see the writing on the wall that maybe smaller development windows and smaller budgets could still do something 'epic' and have easier and larger gains. That doesn't seem to be an issue off consoles though, often studios would pump out a good bit of Nintendo handheld goodies (GBC, A, DS, 3DS) because the costs are monumentally smaller from cash to assets to line their pockets, and even by far more with tablet type digital stuff. Now since they're living on the edge playing these ignorant games instead of fessing up that it's an internal problem of overdoing it (being super basic here) they wish to finger point and scapegoat instead. There's this big disconnect they don't get a lot of people won't or really can't to regularly buy a $60 or more video game, but far more can afford $30-40. If someone can get 2 AAA games for the price of one AAA game, odds are more will be better for someone.

The sad reality is we as buyers are being made out to be criminals and pirates, and I can see how the math they're using works and it's shady political party level deception. They'll play the charts and blab game with it and it makes sense if you ignore the behind closed doors asinine budgets and time frames needed to maintain them. You see a game like (made up) Final Fantasy 13 and let's say that it sold 5M copies, most of these in the first 6 weeks of existence as I think it's around 80% of the money a game makes is in the first month or so on the shelf these days. Then you see that it just falls off hard, yet now you can start tracking used sales as best as possible and people will flood the market with an RPG when finished and now another 5-10M people want to play, just not at $60 but will buy it at $30-40 used. The industry sees us paying someone else as a thief because they rationalize if they could control all media (download only) the used market vanishes and you either buy it or you don't, and they gamble many used people will just save up longer and bite the bullet which probably to a point is correct while others would just quit buying all together. They'll imagine those 5-10M used buyers maybe another 2-3M in sales at full price would come of it, so we're all crooks and pirates. That's how they see it, and that's why they want to change it. It's a fact I've been told that if we had gigabit lines as well laid out as they do in Japan now throughout the US they'd make a drive to have consoles and handhelds only have downloads. Supposedly the 'thanks' for that middle finger would be they'd drop the prices of games by like 1/2 since there would be no costs in shipping goods or putting up with us 'crooks' who buy used games since they'd control the price permanently.

[WCP]

We are the consumers. We aren't the producers.


It's not our job to be charitable to any corporations, or even indie companies. We should buy the best deals we can get, and not worry about whether so and so is making a profit off of it. That's not our job as consumers.

[celerystalker]

The publisher doesn't sell directly to the consumer in 99.9% of retail releases. They've already made their money by selling the game to retailers and distributors. The comparatively small amount of games traded in and re-sold in the same window in which retailers and distributors will buy restock orders is not an influential piece of a game's success at market. If a publisher is going to order larger or additional print runs, a game must have already projected large sales or have attracted unexpected purchases to warrant new pressings to meet distribution demand. The initial order by retailers, though, is where the publisher/developer make their money, as this isn't a guatanteed sale scenario where they have to buy back unsold product from retailers. In terms of sales and projections, the resale dollars in the initial sales window just aren't impactful in the scope of a game's immediate or long term success at market.

[Hep038]

Used record stores have been around for how many years? And the music industry seems to be doing fine. Same thing for movie stores and book stores. I really think it is as simple as that.

[otaku]

We are the consumers. We aren't the producers.


It's not our job to be charitable to any corporations, or even indie companies. We should buy the best deals we can get, and not worry about whether so and so is making a profit off of it. That's not our job as consumers.

this logic is flawed. I can think of numerous companies I have supported by purchasing their products even at high prices or buying extras (then given as gifts) to ensure success so that I might see that sequel or get that next new game. Just think how things might have worked out for titles like shenmue or companies like sega if fans had shown more support?

I have always tended to buy used because of my budget but if it comes down to say $5 as is so often the case I may well spend the extra money for new for a nicer copy and to help out more

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

We are the consumers. We aren't the producers.


It's not our job to be charitable to any corporations, or even indie companies. We should buy the best deals we can get, and not worry about whether so and so is making a profit off of it. That's not our job as consumers.

I agree to an extent. With a big game company, yea I'll wait for a used copy of the game, but if it's something like a local band playing at a bar, I'll spend the $15 for the cd, instead of pirating it off the internet.

[kai123]

Well the recent Retro City Rampage DX edition comes to mind. They gave the game away on PS+ and I loved it but never bought it. I purchased two copies of the "retail" release because I felt the guy deserved the money and my brother would love a copy so it worked out. I usually don't care considering how much we are nickel and dimed now for even the smallest stuff in games. There are hardly any unlockables anymore besides achievements. I miss costumes and weapons being the reward for playing games.

If a game announces DLC before the game comes out I will not pay full retail for it.

[Zthun]

this logic is flawed. I can think of numerous companies I have supported by purchasing their products even at high prices or buying extras (then given as gifts) to ensure success so that I might see that sequel or get that next new game. Just think how things might have worked out for titles like shenmue or companies like sega if fans had shown more support?

I have always tended to buy used because of my budget but if it comes down to say $5 as is so often the case I may well spend the extra money for new for a nicer copy and to help out more

No, actually. He made a statement, not a conclusion based on statements, and you replied with a Straw Man fallacy. You have the flawed logic.

WCP is correct. It is not our job as consumers to support company profits. It is our jobs to purchase what we desire with the money that we earn. It is the job of marketers and publishers to convince us to buy their products. This is economics. Supply and demand.

If you choose to buy new for whatever reason, that is your choice. While your intensions may be of noble cause, it does not matter in the sense of responsibility.

[Tanooki]

Kai that's a real smart move. If you know DLC is announced, don't buy the game. If you aren't some crack addled like gamer who has to have something day one hour zero to get online with or whatever the reason it's best to wait. The price of the game tends to drop fairly quick and you see those DLC packages come with it or trailing soon after. Usually if the game is a big name title and sells in excess of a million or more units you end up getting the 9-12mo later 'game of the year' edition that costs less than the original disc did and has all the paid dlc thrown on there too. I've done this on a few cases like Little Big Planet 2 and it was just the smarter choice not rewarding those industry tactics on new releases.

I ordered that RCR DX PS4 game too, can't wait to have that arrive in the mail and open it up.