Did Nintendo Intentionally Limit the Features in the 3DS Smash Bros. to Make the Wii U One Seem Better to Sell More Wii U's?

[Nz17]

I hate to say it, but as an owner of the Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS game, I feel that the 3DS version was intentionally gimped to make the Wii U version look better in comparison. Some things I understand being Wii U-only, like the 5-8 person multi-player matches, HD graphics, NFC figurines (for now until New 3DS arrives and/or the original 3DS gets a separate NFC accessory), and the Wii U GamePad stuff; but other things like the lack of the "board game" mode for 3DS, and the missing local multi-player for many of the modes not being in the 3DS one when they are in the Wii U one are B.S. I mean, this game plays great when playing online with multiple people, and even better when playing locally via wireless with a group. So there is no logical argument for multi-player being only available for Smash mode, Team mode (2v2), and 1v1 mode.

I believe that this was done intentionally to get the 3DS version out nearly two months sooner than the Wii U version to double-dip on sales. That way, without all the modes available for online and offline multi-player, development could stop on the 3DS game sooner to publish it sooner, and its condition makes the Wii U release look better in comparison with its exclusive modes and features. It's a win-win for Nintendo, and a loss for anyone who bought the 3DS release hoping for feature parity. That's why Nintendo waited for initial sales of the 3DS version to die down before revealing what was so good about the Wii U release with its "50 Facts" video. That information makes the 3DS one look like junk when shown side-by-side!

I mean, of the two consoles, I only own a 3DS right now - but even so, once I learnt what was going to be in the Wii U release, I was downright miffed! So much of that could have easily, EASILY been in the 3DS game. I know the Wii U is struggling in sales (or at least, that's what everyone keeps saying), so Nintendo needs to make the Wii U look good and sell well. But to do so by gimping the 3DS release to make the Wii U one look better in comparison is just wrong.

[Tanooki]

I agree with you and see no reason to repeat everything as it is everything there that's wrong about it. I have it, sealed, got it in a weird situation at a store with credit I had no use for for $6. This was a month ago at least, and the more I see people dump on it I just don't make time for it, then again much time for anything other than games on my laptop lately. Maybe Black Friday will turn it around with some sales hype and I'll unwrap it as I don't see a good reason to ditch it.

[kupomogli]

Same here. I was never planning on getting the 3DS version since there was always going to be a Wii U version of it, but with all of Nintendo's announcements prior to the 3DS release, they made it seem like the 3DS and the Wii U version were going to have the same content except for the one mode that they were include additionally on the 3DS version. Then a month later they released 50 reasons to get the Wii U version of Super Smash Bros, but how the video turned out, they may as well have renamed it to 50 reasons to get the Wii U version of Smash Bros over that shitty 3DS version. I didn't own the 3DS version, but felt as if it'd been a major slap in the face to those who did.

Three times as much music, ability to change the menu music, home run mode, the board game, coin mode, reverse % mode(turns it into a regular fighting game,) and others I can't remember off the top of my head.

The amount of additions that were done were pretty ridiculous in size and I doubt they completed all that in a matter of a month. Imo, they sold the 3DS two months earlier because there are more 3DS out there to sell more copies and knew a lot of people who got the 3DS version might just ignore the Wii U version simply because they have a version with the same amount of content. The two months delay is less to work on extra content and more to make sure they get everyone who's interested to buy the 3DS version prior to the Wii U version, and they won't get bored of the game in two months so once the Wii U version comes out they'll be more inclined to double dip, especially with the amount of content added to it.

Very scummy of Nintendo, but that's Nintendo for you. I own their consoles but I dislike Nintendo for reasons like this. I've always felt the company has been super greedy and pulls subtle crap like this that a lot of the die hards won't notice, fall for it, and then defend Nintendo on all of the time.

[Rickstilwell1]

Yeah for me it is basically why I almost never buy games anywhere near the time they come out. There is always something better around the corner to drive down demand and value of the previous entry.

[Tanooki]

Well I don't feel screwed but I only put $6 into it and it's still sealed. The thing is the WiiU is more or less a dead system aside from the first party trickle which is sad so I don't see buying it on there. I really didn't back when they were lying, but now I can see the $20 greater price adding that value. It's kind of a cockpunching but at the same time not just because it's a portable game too for when you're on the go, not so much as a primary version despite they made it appear that way. Anyone apologizing for this needs to just stop if they are as it's too obvious. I really need to unwrap or sell the game that's for certain, but I have so many other games in the way at this rate even after so much selling off it's not a priority and the WiiU is the least priority to me at all behind steam/gog.com games, then the PS4 and 3DS because they get stuff I want to use.

Maybe I should sell the WiiU to nz17? Haha :D It's brand new with a warranty since I got a replacement when their 5.2 update broke my original.

[Nz17]

Three times as much music, ability to change the menu music, home run mode, the board game, coin mode, reverse % mode(turns it into a regular fighting game,) and others I can't remember off the top of my head.

Whoa, now hold on there, cowboy.

True False - the menu music for the 3DS version can be changed in the sound test/music library section of the game False - Home Run mode is included in the 3DS version True False - "coin modes" are in the 3DS version False - the "health bar" option, and many other versus options, are available in the 3DS version and all versions of Smash

Maybe I should sell the WiiU to nz17? Haha :D It's brand new with a warranty since I got a replacement when their 5.2 update broke my original.

Oh yeah right. At this point in my life, the only way that would happen is if you were willing to sell it to me for $25 including shipping.

[The Adventurer]

Keep in mind a couple things, its my understanding that the 3DS and Wii U use completely different architecture so its not really easy to port content from one to the other directly. To do so takes a lot of work. So by developing a Wii U and a 3DS title at the same time you're actually developing two completely different games.

It's completely understandable in that case that the Wii U version got the bulk of development time, while the 3DS version had to have corners cut. Particularly in singleplayer content. I'm sure if porting the content from one hardware to another was easy. They would have done it.


Though it doesn't quite explain the lack of music, as its my understanding that there's a good gig of unused storage space on the 3DS release. Maybe there are storage space concerns for downloadable games?

[Nz17]

Unless the game was written all in assembly code (which it wasn't) or they were using a lot of hardware-specific performance tricks, porting would not be a problem. And if they were going from 3DS to Wii U, then all the 3DS performance tricks could be dropped because they wouldn't be needed on Wii U. And I might even be tempted to want to give Nintendo and its internal development group Sora the benefit of the doubt, if not for the functionality needed for a lot of these things being in place in the 3DS version already.

Online multiplayer with up to four players?
-Check
Local wireless multiplayer with up to four players including humans and AI bots?
-Check
Are almost all of the modes available in the Wii U version also available in the 3DS version?
-Check
Could these contents and functions be mixed and matched to produce the missing features and multiplayer options? -Check
Are they?
-Uncheck

So unless this is a case where the plan is, "Push out the 3DS version, then we'll finish the Wii U version, then we'll go back and patch in the missing/incomplete features into the 3DS version," I'm thinking we were definitely short-changed. I'm almost tempted to say that I'd pay for a $10 DLC patch to add in the missing features... or even better, that I would have paid $50 instead of $40 for it to have been done in the first place with the original physical release. :-/ But not only do I doubt they will do this in any form, but we shouldn't be expected to pay that much for a 3DS game: the development costs for these are much cheaper than for games for television-connected consoles.

[ZP3]

I'm not really sure if we should be holding a handheld game to the same standards as a full, home console experience.

[Nz17]

I'm not really sure if we should be holding a handheld game to the same standards as a full, home console experience.

See, this double standard is part of the problem. Just because a game is made for a less powerful handheld console, people tend to give a game's shortfalls a pass. But there is no good technical reason that these games cannot be as capable at delivering fully featured, rich gaming experiences to people as the bigger consoles.

Today's handhelds are much more powerful than yesteryear's television consoles, and they can even use gigabytes of space for a single game! Listen to how good 3DS, Vita, and PSP games sound when you use high-quality external speakers or headphones. Look at how good the PSP, PSV, and 3DS games look when displayed on high resolution video screens - for example, in professional video reviews, promotional trailers released by Nintendo and other game companies, and of course, the impressive work of the PSP emulator community, as well as the PlayStation (Vita) TV. For crying out loud, half of the PSP's library (and more and more of the PSV's library) were ports from other home consoles! And there is nothing lesser about these releases compared to their original counterparts except for, perhaps, their screen resolutions.

[ZeroCool]

I'm not really sure if we should be holding a handheld game to the same standards as a full, home console experience.

This times a million. Its like comparing a PSP to a PS3 not that drastically but similar.

[Tanooki]

I have to admit, he's right, holding a handheld, even one as good as the 3DS is to the same standard as a console is a bit of a stretch. They're meant for quick pick up and play/shut down -- gaming on the go and those with limited time. For that, Smash does the 3DS well. Sure it could have had more, but it wasn't needed and would have diluted some WiiU sales for that dying system.

[ZP3]

See, this double standard is part of the problem. Just because a game is made for a less powerful handheld console, people tend to give a game's shortfalls a pass. But there is no good technical reason that these games cannot be as capable at delivering fully featured, rich gaming experiences to people as the bigger consoles.

Today's handhelds are much more powerful than yesteryear's television consoles, and they can even use gigabytes of space for a single game! Listen to how good 3DS, Vita, and PSP games sound when you use high-quality external speakers or headphones. Look at how good the PSP, PSV, and 3DS games look when displayed on high resolution video screens - for example, in professional video reviews, promotional trailers released by Nintendo and other game companies, and of course, the impressive work of the PSP emulator community, as well as the PlayStation (Vita) TV. For crying out loud, half of the PSP's library (and more and more of the PSV's library) were ports from other home consoles! And there is nothing lesser about these releases compared to their original counterparts except for, perhaps, their screen resolutions.

I guess I never really saw what was so restrictive or limited about the 3DS version of smash; there were the exact same amount of characters, an entirely new selection of stages, great online features, and a game mode that wasn't included in the Wii U release. I'm sorry to sound brash OP, but it seems like you are bitching about stuff, like 8 player smash, that isn't really even possible given the specs of the 3DS.

[Lothars]

I guess I never really saw what was so restrictive or limited about the 3DS version of smash; there were the exact same amount of characters, an entirely new selection of stages, great online features, and a game mode that wasn't included in the Wii U release. I'm sorry to sound brash OP, but it seems like you are bitching about stuff, like 8 player smash, that isn't really even possible given the specs of the 3DS.

I don't think he is, Smash 3ds feels like half the game that smash wii u is and maybe that was always the case, it's still dissapointing.

[Tanooki]

Its only half the game if you wish yourself to see it that way. The problem is that they dual released them. Had they even a year apart few if any would be complaining. The added fluff modes on the WiiU game just justify the added price.

[ZP3]

I don't think he is, Smash 3ds feels like half the game that smash wii u is and maybe that was always the case, it's still dissapointing.

What is missing that makes it feel like half the game? Just curious...

[Tanooki]

WiiU just has more play modes like a board game mode among a few others. 3DS has just a few modes, even if some of it is unique. The WiiU game has more audio tracks as well supposedly, but ultimately they both have the same character roster.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

This times a million. Its like comparing a PSP to a PS3 not that drastically but similar.

I agree also, the PSP is definately a great console, I play mine a lot, but the PS3 is just more powerful. Now, the PSP was released almost 2 years before the PS3, but there's still no question the PS3 does things the PSP just can't. I'd compare the capacities of the PSP more to the PS2, lotsa the ported games on the PSP were PS2 games, and even then I'm willing to bet the PS2 is capable of more then the PSP. I mean it's definately a great system and has great graphics but the PSP does not rival the capacities of the home consoles of its day.

With that said, I'm gonna go play Loco Roco.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

A good test would be to see how the remote play for the PSP to PS3 actually works, I've never done it. I haven't tried the PS4 to PS vita compatibilty to see how games compare but I suspect Metal Gear Solid 5 does not look as crisp on the Vita.

[kupomogli]

^But PSP and Vita titles were never different than their PS2 and PS3 counterparts.

The only game that's releasing cross platform that has more content is Tearaway. The PS4 version has 50% more content than the Vita version, but one major difference is the Vita and PS4 versions weren't developed side by side and released two months apart in order to sucker the fanbase out of more sales. The PS4 version wasn't originally planned and is releasing atleast a year and a half later.

[Nz17]

OK, let's clear some things up here.

I'm not complaining about the 5-8 player multiplayer and such. From my first post, the one which started this thread:


Some things I understand being Wii U-only, like the 5-8 person multi-player matches, HD graphics, NFC figurines (for now until New 3DS arrives and/or the original 3DS gets a separate NFC accessory), and the Wii U GamePad stuff; but other things like the lack of the "board game" mode for 3DS, and the missing local multi-player for many of the modes not being in the 3DS one when they are in the Wii U one are B.S. I mean, this game plays great when playing online with multiple people, and even better when playing locally via wireless with a group. So there is no logical argument for multi-player being only available for Smash mode, Team mode (2v2), and 1v1 mode [in the 3DS release].

I'm not saying the 3DS is as powerful as the current consoles or the beefier consoles of the last decade, the PS3 and XB360. I'm saying it is nearly as powerful as the Wii (Which yes, the Wii was part of the previous gen., and I'm comparing Nintendo's hardware generations here.), and the 3DS is more powerful than the PS2, Xbox, GameCube, and Dreamcast. The PSP's power is somewhere between the PS1 and PS2, and is closer to the PS2 in power. And the point wasn't that the 3DS & PSP can deliver graphics to the degree that the most powerful consoles released within a few years either way of them can, but that the 3DS & PSP can deliver console _experiences_ of the same quality as the "big consoles." Think of Kid Icarus: Uprising and other epic-feeling games that would be right at home on a big TV screen or the games which were supposed to be Wii games and ended up being released for the 3DS instead. There is no technical reason these epic game experiences can't exist on the handhelds - it is all a matter of people's perceptions and marketplace expectations. The quick pick-up-and-go games and the longer sit-down-for-two-hours games are both possible on the handhelds, and the PSP's library, both in North America but especially Japan, shows a line-up exactly like this. That's why the PSP was the console of choice for its gen. in Japan, because it could and did deliver both types of games and didn't require all the space-consuming hardware like big televisions and stereos... and for a crowded place like the major Japanese cities, this is very important. But the countries like America with room for lots of electronics and gizmos didn't want the big console experiences on handhelds, and that's part of the reason the PSP failed in the West, and why we will never see official English releases for many of the best PSP games.

(Yes, obviously piracy was an issue with the PSP, but that's not the point. Look at how much longer Japan got new releases for the PSP after America, especially physical game releases. But the ability to pirate games was information known and shared around the world nigh simultaneously, and yet we have this large market schism nonetheless, demonstrating the marketplace differences.)

What do I mean about console experiences? I mean that while these handheld consoles lack the horsepower and high disk storage capacities of the biggies, they can still deliver a full, rewarding gameplay experience that is excellent in suspending your disbelief and which really make you feel like you are "within" the game's world. Hardware is not a limitation in this way. All of the games from the PS2, Xbox, GameCube, and Dreamcast (and earlier!) can be made to easily run on modern handheld console hardware, and there is no doubt that those earlier consoles were home to some of the most immersive games there are. And while some things require tons of storage space (videos), and other things require tons of CPU/GPU horsepower (tons of objects on screen, high polygon counts, rendering viewpoints for multiple camera angles, advanced physics), other things like extra game modes and features do not require beefier hardware. And while all the components which would comprise these missing modes and features are already in the 3DS version of the game (as pointed out in my previous post), they have not been combined to actually make them available. And backporting some of the features from the Wii U version is very possible. But we probably won't ever see feature parity happen, even in a tit-for-tat way (meaning, "Wii U gets this but to be balanced out, 3DS gets that."). International marketplace expectation on what /should/ be in a game for a television console versus a handheld console and the matching market price expectations and upper price limits seem to have sadly made sure of that.

[Rickstilwell1]

Handhelds have always been able to deliver as in depth of an experience as consoles. Their graphics were just always lesser. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening is a very good example at an earlier title to have plenty of length on the Game Boy. It came out after the SNES Zelda game but was just as immersive and enjoyable. Some even liked it better.

Some handheld versions have even more content than the console versions even though their graphics are lesser. X-Men Legends II for PSP has 2 extra characters you can use and doesn't look much worse than the PS2 version. But it was a slightly later release so they were able to add those in as an afterthought.

For Smash Bros. I'm more inclined to go with the separate development idea. It makes sense for games not to be exactly the same because it gives users more of a reason to have both besides just wanting to try it with a different controller. It used to be really cool to get a game on both SNES and Sega Genesis with the same title and have them look and sound a bit different with one getting extra levels, characters, modes or something. They don't do that a lot these days except when it comes to a difference between a handheld and console version, or a current gen and last gen version (i.e. Sonic Unleashed having different stages in PS2/Wii vs PS3/Xbox 360.)Once in a blue moon there is a character that is exclusive to each version like Soul Calibur 2 did. They could have done that with Smash Bros. this time around, giving the 3DS version an exclusive character or something but probably chose not to because they couldn't afford to make the Wii U version look like it was still missing something. They wanted it to be the ultimate version.

[ZP3]

Was the draw of having portable smash really to get a co-op campaign? Maybe I speak only for myself, but the only reason I bought smash 3ds was for smash on the road...

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

^But PSP and Vita titles were never different than their PS2 and PS3 counterparts.

The only game that's releasing cross platform that has more content is Tearaway. The PS4 version has 50% more content than the Vita version, but one major difference is the Vita and PS4 versions weren't developed side by side and released two months apart in order to sucker the fanbase out of more sales. The PS4 version wasn't originally planned and is releasing atleast a year and a half later.

Tearaway is being released on PS4?? Hell yea! I've been tempted to get a Vita just for my interest in this game. I guess I'll just wait for this version.

[Tanooki]

For me too Tearaway was one rarity of when I wished I still had that Vita of mine, but when I learned of the PS4 release in 2015 and with it being a definitive game with the added size of it, I was ready to wait it out. It is funny how this parallels Smash Bros and with the only real huge difference is a closer to 2 years than 2 months gap in release time. Sony comes off looking like the good guy and Nintendo like the sleazeball.

[Nz17]

Was the draw of having portable smash really to get a co-op campaign?

For I, yes. I play many games cooperatively and competitively in multiplayer on the 3DS and wish that more software for the DS, DSi, and 3DS supported local wireless multiplayer - and even better, online multiplayer - though sadly, most titles lack these features though they need not lack them.

[ZP3]

For I, yes. I play many games cooperatively and competitively in multiplayer on the 3DS and wish that more software for the DS, DSi, and 3DS supported local wireless multiplayer - and even better, online multiplayer - though sadly, most titles lack these features though they need not lack them.

I'm still not convinced that the 3DS version of smash can do everything you expect it to; after all, the game takes so much power that one cannot even open miiverse during play.

[Nz17]

I'm still not convinced that the 3DS version of smash can do everything you expect it to; after all, the game takes so much power that one cannot even open miiverse during play.

I think Sakurai's boys could learn a lot from V. D. Dev, another Nintendo 3DS developer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyriIQfRMf0

[Tanooki]

Wooo dude I forgot about that game. I hope that comes out and doesn't remain a tech demo. THose guys really showed what the 3DS is very well capable of with that video. I'm not sure how close to maxing the system they were with that feat, but that game blows Smash Bros out of the water in presentation value which it supposedly pushes the 3DS too far on (ie: lazy ass sloppy unoptimized Nintendo coding.)


By the way I should add these are the same geniuses who created the V3D engine for the GBA. That's that 3D engine people used on games like V-Rally 3, Stuntman, and Asterix and Obelix (3rd person platformer.) They really know their stuff on how to work the hardware to its best, and then squeeze it further through revisions. V-Rally 3 was their first, Asterix was their last on the GBA. V-Rally 3 is much like Sega Rally Saturn with the 3D terrain, in car view with damage, etc, and it generates the 3D the same way through math since Sat+GBA both don't have 3D chips so they have the same side effects on polygon textures and detail. Asterix on the end has similar issues, less pronounced, and much more going on than one car on the screen with multiple enemies, collectibles, moving platforms, and your character too. If IronFall is a start, and it got picked up, I could only guess what more could be done.

[Nz17]

True, Tanooki, and don't forget about C.O.P.: The Recruit on DS. That thing was a free-roaming GTA-style sandbox game where the player was on the side of the law and its technical capabilities, while not *quite* what a PS2 game could do, were supremely impressive for software running on Nintendo DS technology.

[Tanooki]

Oh I remember it, it got really mixed reviews all over the board, but what it pulled off was nothing short of amazing. They still feature it on their website too.

http://www.vd-dev.com/

COP I think was built from their experience from their last GBA game -- Driver 3, which was also stunningly open world. I've been a fan of their work since V-Rally and Wacky Races on the GBC.

The only company to match their pure level of awesome was that pack of Italians that made the Blue Roses Engine for GBA, that thing was crazy. They converted the entire game of Wind Commander Prophecy to the GBA and it's intact. All the flight models, 3d shield flare, explosions, lasers(etc), missiles and all are all recreated very well. To fit the cart, on the TCS Midway it's reduced to just stills and text boxes, but that's fine, it's fairly boring cheese anyway. The game even retains some of the cockpit chatter too in flight. See for yourself it's damn good stuff -- http://www.raylightgames.com/games/wing-commander%E2%84%A2-prophecy-gba/

Found this too: http://www.raylightgames.com/blueroses-engine/ That's the engine capability at that time, it seems to still be around today used in some mobile games, have not yet found which ones though.