Nintendo Reveals Mario Maker [Archive]

Leo_A

12-06-2014, 08:45 PM

I'm looking forward to it.

I just hope that it's as fully featured as it appears to be, that people will be able to string together a full set of levels for an entire game, that we'll be allowed to upload and download our creations (If it were anyone else, this would be all but assured, but Nintendo's online integration is still lacking at times), and that Nintendo will have a full fledged Mario platformer here of their own creation.

I can't wait to see people recreate Vs. Super Mario Bros. or being able to play a recreation of the original Super Mario Bros. in different graphical styles (We've seen SMB, SMB3, SMW, and NSMB skins so far).

I'm sure that later releases won't be able to really be reproduced here (Super Mario Land's vehicles for instance or anything beyond more basic levels from the NSMB franchise). But from what we've seen so far, near 1:1 recreations of the levels from the original pair of SMB releases should be achievable.

kupomogli

12-06-2014, 09:13 PM

With the initial announcement of Mario Maker, it seemed like it was a Mario 1 Maker. It included the graphical update to switch between NES and New Super Mario Bros graphics, but it was entirely based on Super Mario Bros gameplay. With this new trailer it looks like you can now use not only the graphics, but features from Super Mario Bros 3, World, and U, it makes it worth the purchase for anyone interested in creating or playing created levels. If it's released for $30 or less, it's worth it, not worth it for more than that. Doesn't have anything on the LBP games though.

kai123

12-07-2014, 11:50 AM

Disagree with that, this is one of the coolest pieces of nintendo software Ive seen in a long long time.

This is not a system seller. I would not pay for the entire Wii U system for this one game. Most people would say Smash Bros, Mario Kart, and Zelda are system sellers. The game will do fine but I don't see that many people buying the system just for this game.

ZP3

12-07-2014, 01:14 PM

Regardless of whether or not this is a system seller, people can no longer claim that Nintendo is afraid to change up their Mario formula.

kai123

12-07-2014, 02:49 PM

Regardless of whether or not this is a system seller, people can no longer claim that Nintendo is afraid to change up their Mario formula.

Yea, they are willing to do some cool stuff. I just don't see people beating down the door for this game. It is a good game for those of us that have a Wii U systems already.

davidbrit2

12-07-2014, 04:00 PM

I want a 3DS version with Street Pass level swapping.

bb_hood

12-07-2014, 04:01 PM

This is not a system seller. I would not pay for the entire Wii U system for this one game. Most people would say Smash Bros, Mario Kart, and Zelda are system sellers. The game will do fine but I don't see that many people buying the system just for this game.

I would buy a WiiU for this game. Mario Kart, Smash, and Zelda games do not interest me.
Mario Maker looks awesome.

Tanooki

12-07-2014, 04:41 PM

Mario Kart is beyond its prime, Smash is stale unless you're hardcore into it or the 3DS will do, and Zelda jumped the shark into being a wannabe Skyrim-lite being massive and open world. I could see how all three of those could easily never sell another system or just sell to those hardcore to the nose on those three franchises but it will be a hit and miss thing with no happy middleground. Mario Maker though is really just LittleBigPlanet stage/world creator with Mario tiles roughly speaking, and LBP while excellent isn't a system seller and this stage designer won't be either but it will help reinforce the interest of those with this dying system giving them a crap load of hours of something to do with it making or playing others stages which is wise with the ever vanishing future release list.

bb_hood

12-07-2014, 04:54 PM

Mario Maker looks to be a million times better than LittleBigPlanet.

ZP3

12-07-2014, 05:06 PM

kai123

12-07-2014, 05:23 PM

No offense, but you seem to have a massive issue with the Wii U. Both Kart and Smash got amazing reviews and have sold very well, so I'm not so sure why you are so negative towards those two franchises.

Mario Kart I cannot agree with. The AI is garbage in it. The AI seems to only target the player and not the other racers that are in front of them. It rubberbands so much it is frustrating. I take reviews with a grain of salt these days as well. Of course the games sold well, what else am I supposed to buy for my Wii U?

Tanooki

12-07-2014, 05:25 PM

I'm not offended, I guess fairness would say I explain at least a little?

Wii U -- I bought this the day it came out. Stories abound and even behind at the industry level led me to believe this would be the apology, the correction for the Wii. A system with third party support in good number, at least until the PS3/360 ate it, and one that would have been marketed well. The system has a mix of many redone older game and new at launch, even the second wave of things nearly a year later were also solid ventures. The hammer dropped though as EA to start and others rolling off that bailed entirely and projects left and right canned or just never released period for it about after the time of NFS Wii U and COD Ghosts including former exclusive projects going everywhere else in finer form. I then find out from my game producer brother the story I've said before, the industry gave Nintendo (with Sony/MS) the specs they wanted in hardware, if it wasn't met, they'd not be supportive of the system, and Nintendo gave them the finger so they flipped it back. Had I known this 2 years ago I'd have stalled buying it see if I'd get my value out of it and probably never purchased the system at all. I feel I was taken by the system and outside of Nintendo given nothing to show for it and after the Wii it was the final nail in the coffin for me buying their systems again when they come out, if not for good depending how they handle them.

Mario Kart and Smash -- I outgrew them and got fed up with both in how they've taken them online and made that the emphasis making the one player games almost a tack-on sacrifice to justify the package (much like FPS games like Call of Duty--compare pre-Modern Warfare to games since.) Mario Kart has turned into Mario Party on wheels removing the racing skill for pure luck of the draw items to just crush people and not just the spiky shell, and the 1P game he become just boring with more uninspiring tracks and karts than good ones and ugh those bikes on Wii. As the post above said too, the AI cheats and beats only on the human player, even if they're not in first which is garbage. Smash basically stopped evolving with the Gamecube and went online, well flawed, exploited, network issues, and hacked on Wii (like the DS/Wii MK too.) The 1P game gets stale super fast and while the local play is fine in person I have no one to play that with, and the online I"m not going to be a career smash player to get into it on WiiU/3DS so the 1P package is the fall back -- 3DS makes a better case than the WiiU release.

That's it.

Also in all fairness so what if they sold millions? Just because a game reviews well doesn't mean it is good. It means it has fans in the reviewers, potential for payoff reviews as those are common. And really, if you think about it, just because something sells millions doesn't mean it isn't crap. Go look at the sales of various touted amazing games before they hit selling in the millions and turning out to be turds (RE Racoon City, those Matrix games, etc.) You can easily wrap a turd in a shiny package, hype the shit out of it, sell it in the first few weeks until people catch on and make bank. Also one must account with the low sales numbers of WiiU hardware coupled with the gross lack of games worth buying (or at all on there) that huge sales could be accounted in part to consumer desperation and thirst for something new to do with their hardware purchase.

ZeroCool

12-07-2014, 05:45 PM

Looks boring, not interested

Leo_A

12-07-2014, 05:50 PM

Mario Kart is beyond its prime

Hardly

Smash is stale unless you're hardcore into it or the 3DS will do

I wouldn't know

Zelda jumped the shark into being a wannabe Skyrim-lite being massive and open world.

Pure speculation

Mario Maker though is really just LittleBigPlanet stage/world creator with Mario tiles roughly speaking

So what?

it will help reinforce the interest of those with this dying system giving them a crap load of hours of something to do with it making or playing others stages which is wise with the ever vanishing future release list.

For someone that finds so little here of interest, you sure like to run on and on with the same statements at every opportunity.

Give us a break since at this point, anyone that visits here even occasionally knows your views about how Nintendo stole your money and then proceeded to disappoint you in every way possible. You've been going around at every opening giving us the benefit of your insight on why what we find appealing, really isn't and that we're just being duped.

We get it...

Tupin

12-07-2014, 06:27 PM

I'd be surprised if MK8 weren't the last "traditional" Mario Kart. They clearly just want to go full Nintendo Karts. Which is probably for the best.

kai123

12-07-2014, 06:57 PM

We get it...

So you enjoy a circle jerk instead of other opinions? I have a Wii U and I agree with some points Tanooki makes. All of them? No, but I respect his opinion on it. It is good to hear other people's opinions on things it helps you grow as a person.

He gave all the reasons that he didn't like it. If you have a different opinion then write up a counterpoint. There is no reason to get upset at anyone on a message board. Considering the small amount of visitors to the forum it isn't a bad thing to have someone you disagree with you. At least it keeps you coming back.

Leo_A

12-07-2014, 07:14 PM

So you enjoy a circle jerk instead of other opinions?

No, criticism certainly has its place. But the same thing doesn't need to be voiced every few days, or in threads where it has little relevance to the topic at hand.

This thread isn't about someone's opinions of the Wii U and its high profile releases, it's about Mario Maker. His rant is very much off-topic.

It is good to hear other people's opinions on things it helps you grow as a person.

We're talking about a message board about videogames, my friend. If you think that you've somehow been helped to grow as a person by reading threads like this, I don't know what to say.

There is no reason to get upset at anyone on a message board.

If you think I was upset as I read that, you're greatly mistaken and shouldn't be so hasty to just assume such a fact.

Considering the small amount of visitors to the forum it isn't a bad thing to have someone you disagree with you.

I'm all for disagreeing and I'm always ready for a spirited debate. But once again, this topic was about Mario Maker and everyone is already familiar with his feelings towards modern day Nintendo and the Wii U specifically.

The Adventurer

12-07-2014, 07:21 PM

'Mario Kart past its prime' is the biggest 'opinion as fact' statement I've seen in a while. It completely ignores reality.

Tanooki

12-07-2014, 07:24 PM

Hardly

I wouldn't know

Pure speculation

So what?

For someone that finds so little here of interest, you sure like to run on and on with the same statements at every opportunity.

Give us a break since at this point, anyone that visits here even occasionally knows your views about how Nintendo stole your money and then proceeded to disappoint you in every way possible. You've been going around at every opening giving us the benefit of your insight on why what we find appealing, really isn't and that we're just being duped.

We get it...

Leo, Mario Kart is very beyond it's prime depending how you approach it. If you were into it for the local single or multiplayer, that is beyond its prime. The main game is all about online play now.

It is NOT speculation that Zelda on Wii U is an open world game of massive size. Have you not paid attention to the news out there, let alone the pics and stuff this last week with Miyamoto and Aonuma playing it and showing how large the world is and open to do whatever? They made it so you can go as far as the eye can see and then some as anything seen is approachable with enough time, and a spot between and arrow and an X on screen (wii u pad) that were like 1/2inch across took like 5-10min to get there and that's just that area of the game. It's huge and as they've said you can do whatever or do the dungeons as you find them but it's open to do whatever like how I drew a comparison to a Skyrim type game. That's drastically different than the Zelda we grew up with.

So what, what? I just was drawing a comparison to Mario Maker to the LBP stage making, that's all, it wasn't a plus or a minus so why the quote?

If you don't like my posts I suggest one of two things. Don't read them, or have me banned because I'm not going to stop because you don't agree. Drinking the console based Nintendo kool-aid isn't for me anymore, and if it is for you that's fine, but I have every right to post how I feel as much as you do. My so called 'rant' I only did because that guy asked me why I felt as I do about WiiU and in general the Smash and Kart franchises so I answered him and I guess I didn't feel a need to take it to a private message since he didn't ask in one. Had that been PM'd to me I would have done that back. Kai is very right in his answer there, we need a difference of opinion here and not a circle jerk otherwise it just turns into another NintendoAge of be a sheep or get turned into lambchops mentality there.

kupomogli

12-07-2014, 07:25 PM

Mario Maker looks to be a million times better than LittleBigPlanet.

When it comes to ease of use, atleast in comparison to LBP and LBP2, but more than likely also LBP3, Mario Maker is much better, but Mario Maker has nothing on LBP when it comes to functionality.

Leo_A

12-07-2014, 07:30 PM

Leo, Mario Kart is very beyond it's prime depending how you approach it.

You have your opinion, I have mine. I very much disagree with yours, but I do respect it. I just don't see why you felt the need to initially voice it in a thread about Mario Maker.

Shouldn't it of been placed in a thread about Mario Kart 8 or a thread for people's opinions on the Wii U in general, instead of one dedicated to a particular title that isn't MK8?

It is NOT speculation that Zelda on Wii U is an open world game of massive size.

They've said it has open world elements and that the world would be large. You're the one taking some vague statements and turning it around into criticism.

Let's wait for some actual facts before passing judgement. They've shown off very little of this title so far, and haven't said much more. They have the better part of a year left in development, so I don't get the haste...

I just was drawing a comparison to Mario Maker to the LBP stage making, that's all, it wasn't a plus or a minus so why the quote?

I'm not sure what you're saying here, but I assume you're questioning something I said. Note that I wasn't critical of anything you said that had anything remotely to do with Mario Maker, including drawing fair and natural comparisons to another popular franchise that involves 2D style platforming and user created content.

Don't read them, or have me banned because I'm not going to stop because you don't agree.

A: I don't want you banned, even if I could.

B: I don't want you to agree with everything I say.

What I said was something very much different and had to do about trying to remain on-topic.

Drinking the console based Nintendo kool-aid isn't for me anymore, and if it is for you that's fine, but I have every right to post how I feel as much as you do.

Never asked you to become a Nintendo fanboy, I do my own share of criticizing them, and I didn't say that you didn't have a right to your own opinion.

My so called 'rant' I only did because that guy asked me why I felt as I do about WiiU and in general the Smash and Kart franchises so I answered him and I guess I didn't feel a need to take it to a private message since he didn't ask in one.

He didn't ask and what he did post was in response to something you had already said.

kai123

12-07-2014, 07:39 PM

We're talking about a message board about videogames, my friend. If you think that you've somehow been helped to grow as a person by reading threads like this, I don't know what to say.

Then why are you here if not to interact with others and get their opinions on things? There are people at the other end of these messages. Yes, you may grow tolerance to listen to people you completely disagree with. Which is what I am doing right now.

Leo_A

12-07-2014, 07:41 PM

Then why are you here if not to interact with others and get their opinions on things? There are people at the other end of these messages.

Because I enjoy the discussion with like minded individuals that share my enthusiasm on this subject.

I'm not here to grow as an individual like you apparently think you are.

Yes, you may grow tolerance to listen to people you completely disagree with. Which is what I am doing right now.

Do you always like posting such grand statements that in actuality, say so little? You're the one with issues if you're so quick to pass judgement on someone that merely requested that someone respect the topic at hand.

Unlike you, I'm not out to censor anyone's opinions. What I did say was that there was a time and a place for everything and that every thread with any sort of connection with the Wii U, doesn't really require the same post about someone's distaste for Nintendo (Some of his criticism of which, I do share) and their low opinion of the console in question (Which definitely doesn't align with my particular opinions).

There are certainly threads where that's more than appropriate and I don't mind that coming up in the course of conversation, despite my opinions on the Wii U differing greatly from his. But I still fail to see why it has to appear with such regularity, seemingly at every opportunity.

But I'm not the moderator and I'm not out to censor him. I made a comment that obviously he disagrees with greatly and saw no merit in. So that's that...

Tanooki

12-07-2014, 08:03 PM

Leo I know our opinions don't jive, but as I said I felt a reason to respond to a question posed to me, that's the only reason it came up and that's all. It would be weird if someone asks that in here to dig up a necro thread on MK8 to copy and paste a question and response hoping he caught it.

Zelda is partly speculation and not, sure they have a good year left, but you can also take what they've said and what they did on the 3DS game too in making it open and get a feel for it. As 3DS Zelda approached they said their future games would be open like that one to change the formula going forward unless it totally just bombed (which it didn't.) I like and dislike that 3DS game because it is open as I have no idea where to go so I bumble around unless I find a guide and I'm just not a fan of that so I really pick away slowly at that and still haven't finished it and it's tiny in walking distance to what they're claiming for the WiiU. That's why I drew the Skyrim like comparison as they're talking massive scale and open. Sure I could wait a year, but since they're building off of their concept of open on 3DS and going console size huge with the world I know it won't fit with my taste or lifestyle with the lack of time I can put on a console game anymore. I'd probably be more forgiving if I could play it on my laptop such as it is with a game like Diablo 3 which is huge too (or Guild Wars 2.) I like my Zelda games with a start, a set of dungeons to do in order, and a finish -- like the 2D stuff has been and Ocarina/Wind Waker too.

He didn't ask with a question mark. He said "No offense, but you seem to have a massive issue with the Wii U. Both Kart and Smash got amazing reviews and have sold very well, so I'm not so sure why you are so negative towards those two franchises." The why was in there asking why I was negative towards the system and two franchises so I answered, that's really it.

Leo_A

12-07-2014, 08:14 PM

At the risk of being guilty of what I was critical of you yourself doing, the large world is something I find very appealing. I've always loved Zelda overworlds, exploring them, and gradually opening up access to new areas. Their de-emphasis of them in many Zelda releases in the 2000's has been a disappointment for me.

I like dungeons, but to me, they were almost a means to an end.

I'll grant you that the size of the world is a concern, but only a concern. A largely empty overworld or one that's lacking in variety definitely will be disappointing if it plays out that way. But it's much too soon to write this one off, in my opinion. I doubt anyone expects it before next September, with October or November likely being even more likely.

There's a lot of development time left and Zelda titles like Ocarina and Twilight Princess show just how much can change in a few months time.

Tanooki

12-07-2014, 09:15 PM

True enough it's early, but even if it's not overkill, it's off my radar as I sold the hardware to a member of the site here a few days ago and they should have it in the mail tomorrow. :) I just don't like open world large scale games and the change they did on the 3DS was a huge turn off which sucked for me because the SNES Zelda it's directly tied to is my personal favorite of the 2D style and that didn't get me to get anywhere near finishing it. My love of the SNES game and a shred of hope I decide to try it again has let me keep it on the shelf to this point. I know the original Zelda was fairly open world, you in theory could do some stages definitely out of order, but due to the age/system it just never felt too slow and overwhelming to cause a sense of being lost as much as being an explorer. The same could be said of the side scroller sequel and the SNES game too, including Links Awakening on GB/C. I don't see the dungeons as a means to and end, I sought them for the challenge, fun and rewarding item it had. To more or less de-emphasize them so much that it's about just wandering around a huge open expanse with stuff here and there at a distance to do isn't for me.

They could decide in March it was a bad idea and go all skyward sword or wind waker on it since they were big hits, but I doubt it. I doubt really it will even happen in 2015. We know how they are, they announce a game, then give a rough expectation and then the Zelda stuff tends to get a couple of delays. I would not be surprised if it fell into 2016 unless they're in such a pinch they're forced to advance it forward cutting loose some of the design for expediency. Of course that could go the way the Wii did, port it to the next hardware, then delay launch it with the WiiU like TP did with GC/Wii.

Leo_A

12-07-2014, 09:29 PM

[A Link Between Worlds] on the 3DS was a huge turn off which sucked for me because the SNES Zelda it's directly tied to is my personal favorite of the 2D style and that didn't get me to get anywhere near finishing it.

Unusual opinion for what seems to have been the best received Zelda in the 2000's. I think you're the first one that I've seen that was critical of it. I suspect that you were right to sell your Wii U based off of that, since it's hard to get a better received Nintendo release than that one.

I don't see the dungeons as a means to and end, I sought them for the challenge, fun and rewarding item it had.

Neither do I.

Rather, I was out to emphasize just how much I love overworld exploration in this franchise and why I'm intrigued by this large world that seems to be in the works, despite the potential pitfall of it feeling too empty if they don't do a good job at it.

To more or less de-emphasize them so much that it's about just wandering around a huge open expanse with stuff here and there at a distance to do isn't for me.

Nobody has said anything about Zelda U's dungeons yet. I really doubt that they're taking away any attention from them to instead focus on the overworld.

They could decide in March it was a bad idea and go all skyward sword or wind waker on it since they were big hits, but I doubt it.

Don't forget that your concern is just that, a concern. Any real issues remain to be seen.

That said, I'm not suggesting that there is any chance it will essentially be scrapped. Just that a lot of change is likely to still happen over the better part of the next year.

I doubt really it will even happen in 2015.

Doubt it since it's going to be the only real AAA major release in 2015, unless they have a real surprise in store. And that's extremely doubtful since I think that the closest we've came to one of those under a year before release was Wind Waker HD. Everything else that was even remotely a big deal was announced well over a year before release and sometimes years earlier (This upcoming Yoshi release was first shown off before launch, for instance).

And I don't see a remaster, however nice, as a really big deal that will placate fans most interested in major new Nintendo exclusives. So even if they bolster 2015 with one or two high profile HD remasters, no Zelda U is going to be a major problem for them if you're right.

I would not be surprised if it fell into 2016 unless they're in such a pinch they're forced to advance it forward cutting loose some of the design for expediency. Of course that could go the way the Wii did, port it to the next hardware, then delay launch it with the WiiU like TP did with GC/Wii.

I think they're fed up with releasing Zelda as a bookend to their consoles where it has little chance to be a system seller and is quickly forgotten about as new hardware launches. And 2016 is going to be pretty late in the game for the Wii U I imagine. So in light of all the evidence, I think we can count on a Fall 2015 release.

And while a simultaneous next gen release is a possibility if delayed past next year, it would all but require that they stick with this Power PC based foundation for the 4th generation in a row. If that doesn't happen, what was an easy task with Twilight Princess becomes a major job.

ZP3

12-07-2014, 11:22 PM

To me, the Wii U has not been what I expected it to be; I'm not disappointed in it; but rather, see it in a different light than what I originally hoped it to be.

I think the general population (excluding Tanooki) of Wii U owners can agree that the system has had some great releases. 3d world was simply fantastic, Pikmin 3 was solid, Nintendo Land, for me, is still providing entertainment value; Super Mario Bros Wii U was a well-done platformer, as was Tropical Freeze; Wind Waker was a great remake of a fantastic Zelda, Wonderful 101 was a really interesting game, Hyrule Warriors was a fun romp, Monster Hunter 3 ultimate (didn't own) was said to be engrossing, and Mario Kart and Smash Bros have been the cherry on top: These two games are simply fantastic. I am sure I am missing a few games, but we must admit that the U has put out some great content. Nintendo's best ever? Probably not. But in an era of bloated shooters and 10 hour games, Nintendo has provided a solid alternative.

The best part? 2015 should bring some more great content, too. I am sure that I am not alone in saying that I am thoroughly looking forward to Star fox, Zelda, Xenoblade 2, Mario Maker, and splatoon. I am sure more will be announced and more will be released, but if you take the U for what it is (a solely first party console), it has proven to be a pretty fun little box.

Leo_A

12-07-2014, 11:34 PM

To me, their greatest faults are on the business side. Take Pikmin 3 which you just mentioned for a simple piece of evidence. It saw great reviews, it's in a franchise that Nintendo quite clearly is attached to and wants to grow, and they just released a demo of it on the eShop just days ago.

Yet go and try to find it at retail or check prices at an online outlet like Amazon. Why is this title unavailable and not being reprinted? Why has the MSRP not gradually been lowered to continually capture sales, instead of just going out of print completely once those launch copies were sold off at launch day prices?

While Tanooki can see little of value there, all I can think of is what the situation would be if only the rest of Nintendo was as capable as their top development teams...

Tanooki

12-07-2014, 11:41 PM

Well I know and totally understand why that 3DS game is well received. I'm still trying to like it in small doses, but I don't like just wandering around aimlessly in my limited time I have but I do not hate it as it can be fun. And the WiiU got sold because the only interesting games left appear to be that open world Zelda, Starfox(only one I consider a true loss), Xenoblade (which is so large I'd never get it as I couldn't come near finishing it), and that's I think it.

I don't think on zelda wii u they're going to de-emphasize the dungeons but they won't be the big focus they once were as I think the world itself on the whole will be and they'll just be a smaller part of it due to the wide expanse they're in. I don't think it will be scrapped, nor do I think it will be radically changed. I just think if history goes as it does with them delaying Zelda projects a couple times it may get scaled back a little to hit some ultimate deadline that probably will be impacted by the sales data of the WiiU and the need to pull in more sales. My brother seemed to think that in 2015 they may be doing a Mario Galaxy 3 since that series was far better received than their 'New' Mario line or even the 3D Land/World games. Perhaps that'll be thrown out there at E3 2015 and Zelda pushed back to drag out the clock further if it's real. I hope you're right they delay a Zelda game less than they usually do, but as we know, it's huge, so testing that and finishing it up will take a ton of time as Nintendo hasn't been one to ride the upgrade/bug patch train Sony and MS do.

I'm one of those pushing the idea of what you've seen as a possibility, the console/handheld in one device. Let's face it, outside of their own releases they fairly well blow at getting out up to date hardware and third parties to back it since the Gamecube period. Yet they get huge support even from their most critical of developers for their handhelds -- GBA and DS of all things even got GTA games. Since they can't compete well at home but do on the go, it would I think serve them well to make a bitchin $300 handheld which also has a TV dock and a controller (think Neo Geo-X) and go with it. They would be putting all their eggs in one basket instead of two, but they could focus far better that way on the market that hasn't betrayed them -- portables, while still giving the TV some use with a dock. It also would bolster their WiiU credo of off-tv play.

ZP3 I think it had a few great releases, but it has lost steam is all. New SMBU, Mario 3D World, Zelda WW, Res Evil Revelations, DKC TF, Rayman Legends, the physical release of Duck Tales, and a few others I enjoyed, but I ran out of steam with not having something to enjoy with it going forward. And yes, I don't care for smash or kart on the console side either. I'm sure a few more things will be announced, but if what my brother has learned is true that 80% or so of the known remaining releases for the system are public knowledge now, that's worrisome. It could just end up a nice box with 3 years of fun before it craters kind of like Dreamcast -- a good short ride.

Leo_A

12-07-2014, 11:46 PM

My brother seemed to think that in 2015 they may be doing a Mario Galaxy 3 since that series was far better received than their 'New' Mario line or even the 3D Land/World games.

Actually, the New Super Mario Brothers line has always outsold the 3D Mario line. For instance, New Super Mario Wii outsold both Galaxies combined with many millions left over (28.65 million copies to 12.22 million for SMG for instance).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Super Mario Galaxy 3 someday. I just bet that it won't be on the Wii U. In the unlikely event it gets another Mario platformer past Mario Maker, I bet it's a Super Mario Galaxy HD collection or a direct follow-up to 3D World that recycles a lot of the assets.

I hope you're right they delay a Zelda game less than they usually do, but as we know, it's huge, so testing that and finishing it up will take a ton of time as Nintendo hasn't been one to ride the upgrade/bug patch train Sony and MS do.

Twilight Princess seemed to miss its original date mainly to reposition it as a Wii launch title and I think Skyward Sword lagged because they decided to implement Motion Plus support in the wake of Wii Sports Resort.

Hopefully this one makes it on time.

Yet they get huge support even from their most critical of developers for their handhelds -- GBA and DS of all things even got GTA games.

Not anymore though. 3rd party support has really dried up this generation on the 3DS. About the best that can be said about 3rd party support on the 3DS these days is that it's better off than the Wii U...

That's one reason why what you said is so key, since their handheld line as it stands also needs reinventing in the wake of the smartphone. The days where the handheld easily covers for weaknesses in their console market is now over.

Combining forces seems the obvious answer.

Tanooki

12-08-2014, 09:34 AM

You're probably right about that with Mario and it is kind of a shame. Nintendo has turned it into something kind of like a Madden game of sorts, you make a game engine, then make a few games where you just slightly tweak the engine, bust out the cookie cutter and make some new stages. I'm not saying it's bad, but they don't really go crazy like they used to like the evolution of it on NES/SNES. I have no idea if he was right in what he heard or not, but I hope for people who have it they do make that sequel as Galaxy was awesome.

You're right about those Zeldas, but if you go back farther there were 'quality' and expansion delays with both the N64 titles, and I think the GC game got backed up too a bit. It's habit with them on that franchise as they always want to go back, do more, and get it right which is fine as rushing causes issues.

I know, I know all too well. The 3DS still gets the third party games, but it's nothing like it was the first couple of years at all. I know internally they've known of the New3DS for awhile, so it could be really a mix of shifting gears and also the tablet market kicking their ass too. It can not help having all those clip on Moga's(I have one) out there or the Nvidia shield either. If someone started making a phone that caught on where the thing slid on the back like an old keyboard phone (sorta like the PSP phone from Sony Ericsson) they'd be shit out of luck and right in the spot they are now with the WiiU. Trust me I've put a lot of thought into it and bounced it off my brother, it's something people I think they want to see Nintendo do. Their handheld line has and will remain king unless the floor drops out from under them. The console end by third parties is written off, but they like what they can do on a dedicated device still, and having them drop out (kind of) of consoles and do a combo high end handheld with a console dock for home gaming would set them apart and save their ass.

You know another thing I've considered was their old Yamauchi stance on, if the hardware fails, the IPs go down the toilet with it. Seeing how xenophobic the Japanese game industry is against the US (ie: xbox) I could see under the new leadership them branching if hardware did fail to being a Sony exclusive game maker albeit not second party while also finally supporting tablet gaming perhaps selling a controller(bluetooth) to attach to a tablet/phone to retain their 'Nintendo magic' feeling of gaming.

davidbrit2

12-08-2014, 10:19 AM

So there's a newer trailer showing even more crazy features:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GaYEGnu00g

http://i.imgur.com/p5JM13q.jpg

Pretty obvious that this isn't going to just be a simple NES ROM hacking tool.

kupomogli

12-08-2014, 10:30 AM

^The Mario Maker video is the same as the one in the op.

davidbrit2

12-08-2014, 11:37 AM

^The Mario Maker video is the same as the one in the op.

The OP link goes to an old E3 2014 trailer, unless I'm missing something here.

Tanooki

12-08-2014, 01:11 PM

It may be old but I missed this clip. It's also rarer to hear Miyamoto use english as he seems so cozy still using an interpreter.

The fascinating thing with Mario Maker is that the menu bar up high reeks strongly of the Mario Paint interface of the SNES, and I couldn't think of a better one to ape for the present. It's mind blowing they do NOT put the rom for that out or make a real second Mario Paint as a download only (at the least) game for the 3DS. I hope Mario Maker once the WiiU version sales fizzle will pull a 'smash bros' on it and throw it on there for more penetration. I can't say I'd use it but if I did, portability would be key in that interest.

ZP3

12-08-2014, 02:12 PM

The OP link goes to an old E3 2014 trailer, unless I'm missing something here.

No worries, but my link was the same as yours, sans the Miyamoto intro!

Leo_A

12-08-2014, 04:30 PM

Darn, I was hoping that was something new. That Game Awards trailer from a couple of days ago has me excited about this title and ready to see more.

You're right about those Zeldas, but if you go back farther there were 'quality' and expansion delays with both the N64 titles, and I think the GC game got backed up too a bit.

Majora's Mask didn't slip and neither did Wind Waker, although they had to cut development a bit short to make their schedule (Resulting in the loss of two planned dungeons).

I don't really think that Ocarina of Time has any bearing on things. That was nearly 20 years ago and their first 3D Zelda, so a long development period only seemed natural.

The 3DS still gets the third party games, but it's nothing like it was the first couple of years at all.

Even when new, it was sadly weak in that area and few 3rd party releases are part of my collection. They saw some decent support from a few like Capcom, but I'd say that just in quantity alone, the stream of 3DS software is only about 1/3 of that of the DS.

And sadly, a good chunk of shovelware and software aimed at young kids like Disney movie tie-ins still accounts for what we're getting. So the diminished counts haven't been just a matter of the cheap cash-in junk disappearing now that that Nintendo's handhelds aren't setting sales records.

davidbrit2

12-08-2014, 04:37 PM

No worries, but my link was the same as yours, sans the Miyamoto intro!

Um... no? The one you linked to was posted back in June. This new one was from just a couple days ago, I think. And it looks awesome.

Rickstilwell1

12-08-2014, 04:40 PM

The main difference between Mario games now and the old ones is that they go for the same art style these days instead of making drastic changes as they did when the series was evolving with the hardware. The polygons might be smoother depending on what system you're playing on, but everything is drawn the same way. What the Mario series needs is some variety in the art direction. We wouldn't be saying the NSMB games are too similar if they would have done that. The only one that doesn't feel like a copycat is the first one rightfully so, as a new Mario hadn't been done on a handheld for years, since Super Mario Land 2. Remember how fresh the first NSMB felt. The only thing we felt it lacked was the ability to fly.

Leo_A

12-08-2014, 04:49 PM

Speaking of art styles, it was great to see that they've added two more to the lineup for Mario Maker (Super Mario World and Super Mario Bros. 3). Not sure if that has been mentioned so far, but it's a much welcomed addition.

And no music generation is confirmed, despite a Mario Paint style editor seeming like a natural feature. :(

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/08/how-mario-maker-mixes-music-with-level-creation

kupomogli

12-08-2014, 05:05 PM

The OP link goes to an old E3 2014 trailer, unless I'm missing something here.

It was the same video whenever I watched it, I went back to it right now and it's showing the old one. Go to the first page and read my post, it's referencing the additions that were made.

ZP3

12-08-2014, 05:34 PM

It was the same video whenever I watched it, I went back to it right now and it's showing the old one. Go to the first page and read my post, it's referencing the additions that were made.

Huh. Odd. Oh well, fixed it!

Tanooki

12-08-2014, 05:45 PM

I feel like I must own a different 3DS. :D I have 18 games, 10 of them are not made by Nintendo. I've had more in the past but let them go like SSFIV, DOA, Ridge Racer 3D and more third party titles. The support was solid for at least 2-3 years, but really has slacked in the last year compared which is why I said perhaps people just knew the New3DS was coming compounded by the uptick in tablet/phone gaming too. The 3DS appears to be getting an abridged life which sucks, but it's a necessity due to the phone/tablet junk and they're going GB to GBC upgrade style on it with New3DS. I'm curious to see how that one plays out with it kickstarting with Xenoblade among other things going forward.

Rick I have said it since NSMB came out and before in the long run wishing there were more 2D Mario games, they need to bring back the world of SMB2. It was huge here and as SM USA was big in Japan too. There's so much barely tapped potential there for a fun game and it even follows their weirdo need to have the thing be an optional 4P adventure seeing the old title had 4 players to pick from. Sure they've kept Birdo and Shy Guy around, Pokey too, but if they could return to Subcon now and again it would be awesome. Perhaps instead of a dream, have the dream world invade reality -- bring forth Wart, Mouser, Triclyde and the rest. Keep the re-mastered physics for movement and jump from NSMBU where they returned it to be mostly like SMW from SNES and not the floaty junk of the DS/3DS games.

RANGERooB

12-08-2014, 06:26 PM

just thinking why isn't there a new mario rpg out on the wii u ? since they redid most of the mario series expect galaxies

Leo_A

12-08-2014, 06:29 PM

just thinking why isn't there a new mario rpg out on the wii u ?

Wal-Mart has Paper Mario U up for $100, lol.

Hopefully the Wii U lives long enough for something real to happen there since obviously that's part of the traditional Nintendo gameplan these days. Short of dying prematurely (I really would not be shocked to see next generation Nintendo hardware appear in 2016, with Zelda U next Fall as its last major release), it seems a safe bet as does Animal Crossing.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have one or both underway as we speak.

I feel like I must own a different 3DS. :D I have 18 games, 10 of them are not made by Nintendo.

There' some good stuff there, no doubt.

JRPG's for instance seem to be present in strong numbers. But sadly, I'm not a fan (Outside of Nintendo's "Marioized" attempts). And there's some other quirky, yet quality Japanese stuff there as well in solid numbers like Phoenix Wright. Plus, I haven't given 3rd party publishing the attention it deserves on either the DS or the 3DS, so I can certainly do much better than the four 3rd party 3DS games that I have right now (Not counting Sega's 3D Classics lineup on the eShop).

But it's undoubtedly happening with much decreased frequency compared to the DS, even when the 3DS was new.

people just knew the New3DS was coming

I don't think so, it seemed to come as a shock even to those in the gaming press. I don't think it factored into 3rd party support as well since I don't see many eschewing the regular 3DS just to release a New 3DS project to a far smaller audience when they could instead sell a regular 3DS release to everyone.

The New 3DS will have to be a huge sales success and enjoy a long life if it's to get even a modest amount of 3rd party development/publishing for it. Otherwise, the established install base of the regular 3DS is going to win out (although I would hope developers will optionally take advantage of the New 3DS when it makes sense).

Tanooki

12-08-2014, 10:26 PM

Yeah you've neglected third party games if you just have four real physical games as there are great offerings. Sure the magnitude of releases has slowed compared to the GBA and DS period but that's to be expected against the larger market that exists now. They've making overall great profit on it and that ultimately is what matters because if they don't then the game offerings vanish.

You're right the New3DS was a blindside to the press. As much as they love to think they're connected, the truth of the matter is they're often intentionally left in the dark and or under NDA because they have big stupid gaping traps they can't shut the hell up short of a legal threat. Systems can be known a good year or more at times before the press is allowed to know something exists and even then existence and demonstration or tech jargon come at different points too. People said the same thing about the GBC since the 'beautiful' looking smaller GB Pocket was still pretty new too yet we saw how that went. You had a nice spread of GBC hybrid and exclusive stuff and that should continue on the New 3DS too. I think if anything it will end up a 4 year system too where the sales start large and stay large for a time with certain lulls and boosts due to some train of great games or a really stellar release but will fall off as other media clouds it over again being a stand alone. I still believe the dual console/handheld box is the way to differentiate and make themselves relevant to gamers again both 'core' and casual.

Leo_A

12-08-2014, 11:03 PM

Yeah you've neglected third party games if you just have four real physical games as there are great offerings.

To a degree, but when my taste and what I've actually played is taken into account, it's not too bad.

For instance, I don't like fighters so I can scratch Street Fighter IV off the list, in addition to not caring for much of the other Japanese content on there that I already mentioned. Just not really a fan of things like JRPG's, no matter how well done.

And I bought all three PS2 Kingdom Hearts releases a decade ago and still haven't gotten around to them, so I've skipped the 3DS release for now (Along with both HD remasters on the PS3 and the DS game). Hopefully someday assuming my assumption of enjoying this action RPG franchise ends up correct, I'll rectify that. But I could easily end up off the mark and regret what I already rather foolishly invested into.

Unfortunately, I can dismiss a lot of the best 3rd party content since it just doesn't align with my own taste or particular needs.

People said the same thing about the GBC since the 'beautiful' looking smaller GB Pocket was still pretty new too yet we saw how that went.

I doubt even Nintendo is fooling themselves. Why else is it not out there for the Christmas shopping season if they have such grandiose plans for it? Instead, sizable numbers of regular 3DS hardware is being sold this Christmas despite the New 3DS being ready to go. Time will tell, but my money is on it being little better than the DSi situation ended up where exclusives are concerned. A minor hardware refresh with minor software support.

Granted, with Xenoblade Chronicles and presumably, at least a couple of more quality 1st party projects planned, it's already better off than the DSi line was with exclusives. But I don't think that it will ever really take off enough to entice 3rd parties to develop to its capabilities and write off the majority of the 3DS install base. They're out to maximize software sales, not to justify a system revision that they hope will entice people to double or even triple dip on with another hardware sale.

I don't see it having the advantages that the GBC did with color. And even there, much of its lineup was restricted from taking full advantage of the more powerful GBC hardware for the very reasons that I'm talking about. They didn't want to cut out that huge existing install base.

Tanooki

12-09-2014, 09:59 AM

Excluding JRPG and the types -- Castlevania, Ace Combat, Adventure Time(the 1st which is a Zelda 2 like clone), Cave Story, Code of Princess, Pinball Hall of Fame, Bit Trip Saga, both the FF Theaterhythm games, Ridge Racer, Asphalt, Samurai Warriors, both Resident Evil games, all come to mind as a decent cut of variety from the third party world that maybe worth looking into. I don't know your tastes but there's a good spread of genres there.

I just don't see the New 3DS going DSi where there's like 4 games, no advertising, and it's just a shittily handled crutch to last about 2 years before something better shows up. The only realm of possibility I see there is that the system bombs so astronomically hard that third parties pull a WiiU on it and give it the bird after the first year forcing Nintendo do run out another system in a hurry. Supposedly the advantage of the New 3DS depending on taste may or may not be as 'wow' as color was. You get a 3D image finally that doesn't tear apart at the slightest angle which is the only reason I don't use it much at all. They've got a double clocked and twice to four times the ram looking to go into it, other parts upgrades as well which will allow the hardware to pop out stuff at over the level the Wii was capable of making it a pretty impressive handheld. I'm not sure it'll come up to the Vita in quality, but it's definitely not just a minor bump. That added horesepower going on there would make it fairly enticing for developers to at worst use it as a spam box to shove last generation games on there as a cash-in and if you were just a Nintendo tool who avoided the PS3/360 and Vita it would be fresh releases if that happened.

celerystalker

12-09-2014, 01:16 PM

I think I would have really played with this as a kid. When I was 20 or so and finally an RPG maker came out over here, I snapped it up, and then realized I just don't care to put that kind of effort into that sort of thing. I don't even tinker with the level editors on games like Excitebike or Lode Runner anymore. My ten year old self would have played 'til he dropped. Now, these games are a nice thought but best left to kids who still get summer vacations and spring/winter breaks.

You know, as I say this, I mean it, and yet I somehow did manage to blow a ton of hours on Terraria last year. Huh. Maybe I'll try it on the cheap sometime.

Leo_A

12-09-2014, 04:43 PM

This doesn't look like it's going to require a large time commitment to have fun with.

Plus, even if level creation isn't appealing these days, I'm confident that a full Nintendo produced 2D Mario platformer will be here (Surely, they're not just going to sell us a level editor and nothing else), not to mention user created downloads.

Excluding JRPG and the types -- Castlevania, Ace Combat, Adventure Time(the 1st which is a Zelda 2 like clone), Cave Story, Code of Princess, Pinball Hall of Fame, Bit Trip Saga, both the FF Theaterhythm games, Ridge Racer, Asphalt, Samurai Warriors, both Resident Evil games, all come to mind as a decent cut of variety from the third party world that maybe worth looking into. I don't know your tastes but there's a good spread of genres there.

I've heard good things about Adventure Time twice in as many days now, but have never heard of Code of Princess or FF Theaterhythm [Edit: Latter two definitely aren't my style]. I also already own two of these since I'm a fan of Ace Combat and Ridge Racer.

But several of those are easily dismissed where I'm concerned. I don't like the direction that they took Castlevania in with the Lords of Shadow spinoffs, I have both PSP releases for Pinball Hall of Fame (Not to mention numerous console versions and Pinball Arcade), I have Bit Trip Saga for the Wii and haven't yet played it, I hated Asphalt Urban GT on the DS (Shovelware if there ever was one), Samurai Warriors isn't my cup of tea, Resident Evil: Revelations is on the Wii U, and Mercenaries was received fairly poorly.

But I'm not out to argue. The 3DS definitely has a fair number of nice third party releases and I definitely need to investigate several of them. I just think that it's much reduced from the heyday of Nintendo's dominance in this area, a line of thinking that you seem to largely be in agreement with.

Tanooki

12-09-2014, 07:19 PM

Well Code of Princess is kind of like Dragon's Crown, a brawler with RPG leveling and better gear, extra characters, and an enjoyable enough story but you have to like that or it's boring as sin. I don't like Lords of Shadow as the 3D franchise goes, but the 3DS game basically is a hybrid of Castlevania 3 NES and God of War (energy/magic bar enhancement and button combos for nasty hits) which I found hard to put down until I finished it. I know that RE Mercs wasn't the best, a lame demo turned into a game and one with a really evil save setup where you can never reset the data which sucks. I mostly was just listing third party stuff I tried out before or was aware of. It's why I never listed Monster Hunter which is huge as I never could get into the slow plodding pace of it on the PSP when I had it before.

I think the deal is these days is Nintendo has the third party support still totally on the handheld front, but the difference is that you're getting quality over quantity. With the GBA and DS you got a heap of games, a good bit more, but there was so much filler garbage. I'm not saying 3DS is empty of it, but there's far less shovelware turds or mediocre third party releases from more reputable companies.

Leo_A

12-09-2014, 07:39 PM

I think the deal is these days is Nintendo has the third party support still totally on the handheld front, but the difference is that you're getting quality over quantity. With the GBA and DS you got a heap of games, a good bit more, but there was so much filler garbage.

Go to GameFaqs, filter their 3DS list by selecting retail and North America, and take a look around. Still tons and tons of obvious shovelware. We're seeing fewer games with no apparent increase in the average quality of what we are receiving.

I bet that the DS saw three times the releases on an average year that the 3DS has done. And even if the percentage of quality 3rd party 3DS software was slightly more that that the DS (Which I definitely don't subscribe to but admit to not being able to prove in any meaningful way), sheer numbers still easily win out for both the GBA and the DS.

Just look at Castlevania alone for one example. Sure, Japan's gaming industry and Konami both seem to be dying and that's surely contributing a bit, but we have what, about six quality games in that franchise split evenly across the GBA and DS (Or at least 4 or 5 for pickier fans) to one average 3DS effort?

Nintendo is struggling here, just look at 3DS software sales this year for instance. Super Smash Brothers and Pokemon should help it a bit, but in the absence of much in the way of major Nintendo published activity, numbers are dismal so far and likely will end up mediocre at best at the end of Nintendo's fiscal year.

The 3rd parties simply aren't here to pick up the slack so the moment Nintendo has a reduced release calendar, it's immediately reflected with the sales data with large drops in numbers.

treismac

12-09-2014, 11:27 PM

I would buy a Wii U for this game. Mario Kart, Smash, and Zelda games do not interest me.
Mario Maker looks awesome.

Bam. I totally concur. While it may still be Mario, it is Mario with new life and a different angle. I don't get excited about Zelda, Smash, Kart, or even the newest SMB update, but this entices me. For one thing, it actually makes use of that touchscreen Wii U controller in a way that is functional and not just gimmicky. This could have never been comfortably pulled off on another Nintendo (home) console until now, upping the WiiU's prospective value to me.

The Wii U needs more than a few games worth playing for me to think about buying it. Never mind the naysayers, this makes me think about buying a Wii U.

WCP

12-10-2014, 12:44 AM

I wish it was available on Steam or something, lol...

Would love to mess with the game and make Mario World type levels, but don't want to buy a Wii U just to get it.

Tanooki

12-10-2014, 09:25 AM

One game isn't enough to make probably most people to buy the Wii U, it's just a step in the right direction. The problem being though if someone is tired of some of the other franchises they still fling out instead of those that are buried, it's just not enough. I really do hope a version of it gets tossed on the 3DS sometime next year, and if not on there on New3DS using the added power to do more. It could be pretty fun tiling up an old Mario game yourself with the 3D slider on to give it depth.

Leo, maybe. The last Mario platformer for the 3DS was pretty (2D) terrible, it was just a cookie cutter game that focused on coin rushing for mad collection over any real substance value and it bored the crap out of me so I sold it which says a lot as I keep Mario games. :P I know you can filter and see crap on the 3DS, never said it was immune, just was arguing there's less trash to good but that also plays off the fact it has less overall releases too. I'd rather have a system with 500 games instead of a 1000 if in those 500 games there are more gems than turds because it's easy and cheap to make garbage someone will buy. I don't think Japan's gaming industry is dying, it's converting and has been for a time now towards mobile play. They seem to be losing more and more interest with the console side so they're trying to appease non-Japanese markets with stuff that really isn't all that good and sometimes comes off as a sad cry for attention kind of like how Capcom fouled up DMC and Konami going big into football(soccer) games and a few other safe bets on the global level. They're so on the go over there if they game, it's sitting on a subway/train car.

Leo_A

12-10-2014, 04:59 PM

One game isn't enough to make probably most people to buy the Wii U

Just to clarify since I assume that you're responding to some recent posts rather than just talking out loud with a random thought, I don't think that anyone was saying that this game was. They're talking about their own personal excitement about it.

The last Mario platformer for the 3DS was pretty (2D) terrible,

I liked it and thought it was at least as good as the original DS effort (Although I largely ignored the coin nonsense). Both however never reached the same levels as the Wii and Wii U iterations did, in my eyes.

But that's first party, so has nothing to do with the 3rd party situation that we were discussing.

I'd rather have a system with 500 games instead of a 1000 if in those 500 games there are more gems than turds because it's easy and cheap to make garbage someone will buy.

You must really have a poor opinion of the DS if you think the 3rd party titles you've listed help demonstrate the superiority of the library on the 3DS in comparison.

I'm afraid that unless things drastically change soon, I can't imagine ever sharing your opinion.

I don't think Japan's gaming industry is dying, it's converting and has been for a time now towards mobile play.

That's still evidence of its decline in the eyes of many.

Rickstilwell1

12-10-2014, 05:41 PM

There's plenty of games available on the Wii U if you choose to buy it before buying another system. I got the Tekken game for it last week at Target for the new low price of $20 and didn't have it on another system already. It says it has added content compared to the original release which is a good bonus.. I'm sick of hearing people say there's no games for x system. I've been hearing that since the PS3 and it's always nothing but a lie. Even the PS Vita has games I know I would like.

Tanooki

12-10-2014, 07:25 PM

Leo I was just speaking in general that most people won't hinge a purchase over a system they've held off on over one game, even if it looks like it would give a lot of hours of time. Zero day techonophile gamer types do but that time came and went. As far as NSMB2 3DS went, I didn't much like the original one either as it was very short, floaty, 2 worlds were locked unless you micro ran under the bosses which I felt was dumb, and the cannons were just obtusely hidden. Once the thrill of a new 2D Mario expired it felt like a dumbed down cookie cutter flash game browser platformer with mario tiles on it to me more than a legit game.

My feeling on the DS was misinterpreted by you I guess. While I don't feel the DS had much replay value to continue holding onto the games, while it was a living system I put a fair bit of time on it, probably had a good 50-100 games total and went through the 3 revisions of the hardware as well. I had some good fun with various return franchises and new stuff too. Some stuff I got because at that point I was game media and would review games and keep the copies I got. My feelings on the DS though was that it was the cheapest by far at that time frame to develop games for, because of that it was like the GBA of its time or the PS1 of the era before where you has mass piles of shovelware turds but enough gems to still fill your time. In comparison I know the 3DS has less games, but just a smaller turd to gem ratio due to the less releases.

I guess maybe it is in decline in Japan, time in another decade really will tell. I think gaming there isn't so much declining but converting. Console is on the way out since most live in small houses or flats and they ride public transportation mostly so a portable is key to passing wasted time loafing on a ride so more gamers there are buying up dedicated gaming portables, phones and tablets and not tv bound systems. It again another idea I had when I have said for awhile now NIntendo would be best served making a bitchin handheld with a TV dock for it.

Rick: You're very accurate on that sentiment. IF you buy a WiiU, and IF you don't have a capable PC or a last gen console so you missed out on a lot of games, then the WiiU has a big library of unique experiences from day one. To someone who didn't have a PC or a PS3 there were new Call of Duty games, Assassins Creed titles, Batman games, Ninja Gaiden, Mass Effect, Need for Speed, EA sports, Rayman and lots more. If WiiU was your first system, there's plenty enough to go around. I think the 'no games' thing is fair, but only fair depending on the person and what they have already. If WiiU isn't your first console, then it's first party and thin after that so it would feel like 'no games' but if you don't then it's bs. Funny you bring up the Vita, I had one, loved it too, but I abandoned it as it had 'no games' for ME on it because I ditched it around Gravity Rush and all I had to look forward to were PS3 ports mostly and of games I wouldn't buy on there either. :\ I still have hopes Sony does the remaster treatment on their old Uncharted trio of games and then throw the 4th (Vita) on there too as I'd snap that up in an instant.

Leo_A

12-10-2014, 07:56 PM

Leo I was just speaking in general that most people won't hinge a purchase over a system they've held off on over one game, even if it looks like it would give a lot of hours of time.

System sellers exist at least for me. Ocarina of Time for the N64 and Midway Arcade Treasures 2 for the Xbox (You heard that correctly, I love Timber and MAT2 reviewed best on the Xbox, despite already owning a GCN at the time with the original MAT) both leap to mind as being games that finally led me to make a system purchase.

I don't think it's too unusual for a particular game too push someone over the edge with their decision to finally make a purchase. Clearly, a few in this thread view this title as potentially just such a game for them.

And don't forget what the term itself means. It doesn't mean that someone bought a system for a single title.

celerystalker

12-10-2014, 09:36 PM

I think there are real system sellers. While generally speaking I like to have several games of high interest to me before I buy in, there have been a few games that got in my head and made me jump in head first just for that game. Power Stone made me buy a Dreamcast. Taito Memories with Rastan made me buy a Japanese PS2. Goldeneye got me on N64, Steel Battalion got me to get an Xbox, and seeing Bioshock in action when my old roommate picked it up convinced me to get a 360, even though I didn't even play it much, but just liked the atmosphere. Most consoles had to win my money by commitee, but sometimes a single game or the idea of the game gets in my head and plants that seed that leads to a quick purchase. Mario Maker isn't that to me, but nothing on PS4 or Xbox One has either. Right now, if I was planning on dropping new system cash, I'd rather buy more arcade cabinets unless something whacks me upside the head to win me over. Otherwise, I'll wait until there are a lot of games I want to try or they get cheap enough that it doesn't feel like a leap.

As far as the Japanese consumer market goes, though, good luck figuring that out. The Japanese have such a cultural divide on this stuff that very little has cross-continental appeal anymore. One minute old standbys like Mega Man and FinalFantasy can no longer gain traction, then Monster Hunter sells a million PSPs and spawns conventions. Monster Hunter flounders here, then Hatsune Miku makes a bunch of money over there. Social games are huge, but it's a flooded market that's started to bleed over into the mobile market... The point is, games are going in very new directions in design, format, distribution, and content, and our cultural differences in consumerism widen the gap all the time. There are so few world-wide hits, and Mario Kart, Smash, and Zelda all happen to be in that company, even if I don't care for them. I don't feel confident about predicting anything about the future of games, as to me it feels like we're in the middle of a transitional phase where a lot of testing the market is occurring. What will we accept in microtransaction form? Does free-ti-play download distribution have a strong future? Digital rights, physical media, social media connectivity... the hobby goes so far beyond my grandparents working on cars and trying to get dates it's insane. Even journalism about games has changed from being about playing and beating games to industry insider info and treating designers and execs like celebrities, whereas David Crane had to leave Atari just to get credit for his work.

The truth is, I don't know or even care to predict the future of gaming. I just want to see what strikes me personally as fun and share it with others who might enjoy it. I hope it's a bright future. If it isn't, though, I can live with that. There are plenty of existing games, arcade cabinets, and pinball machines out there to eat up more time than I will ever have to put into them.

RANGERooB

12-11-2014, 09:55 AM

Celerystalker, I'd have to agree with you on pretty everything. I believe its usually a library of games that attracts gamers to the system not just one game. If there are no games in all three systems then wait, buy and play classics on nes, dreamcast, pc engine, etc.(or arcade cabinets) personally I just bought a wii u and I am loving especially the couch coop with my gf its an experience I haven't felt in years and love it.
Since this game(Mario maker) is a wii u exclusive I will probably pick it up( I am going for an wii u exclusive collection) but even still the first party titles aren't all there where is the Mario rpg in HD or the metroid game or galaxies or seriously Nintendo I believe only Splatoon is the only new IP coming from within Nintendo which is sad though this generation Nintendo for there own gain helped bring bayonetta 2 to fruition and saved Devils Third if they could take more risks I believe it could be a better system.