Miyamoto: Nintendo is working on the next console

[parallaxscroll]

Nintendo is working on next games console, says Mario creator

The legendary game designer Shigeru Miyamoto has told press that the company is working on a console to follow the Wii U

http://i.imgur.com/g0wuYsf.jpg
Iconic Nintendo game designer Shigeru Miyamoto has confirmed that a successor to the Wii U console is in development and it may even get a Mario game for its launch Photograph: Casey Curry/Casey Curry/Invision/AP

Nintendo’s game design chief, Shigeru Miyamoto, has confirmed that a successor to the current Wii U console is already in development.

In an interview with Associated Press the creator of the iconic Super Mario and Zelda games said, “For the time being, our focus is on the Wii U hardware, but Nintendo as a whole has groups working on ideas for new hardware systems.

“While we’re busy working on software for the Wii U, we have production lines that are working on ideas for what the next system might be.”

Launched in November 2012, the console, which comes with a special tablet-style controller called the GamePad, did not fair well to begin with. It sold slowly and gamers complained about the paucity of titles available for the system.

This year has seen an upturn in interest, though, with critically acclaimed titles such as Mario Kart 8 and Bayonetta 2. The machine has now sold more than 7m units worldwide, which is still a long way behind its competitors, the Xbox One (10m) and PlayStation 4 (13m).

For a while, there was speculation that Nintendo may choose to pull out of the hardware market, instead concentrating on producing its hit software titles for other consoles, as well as smartphones and PC. It is the route Sega took after the comparative failure of its Dreamcast console in 2000.

However, in May, the Nintendo CEO, Satoru Iwata, confirmed to investors that the company would remain in the hardware market, although would not be drawn on further details.

Miyamoto’s confirmation will no doubt lead to speculation that the company is set to announce a new machine at this year’s E3 conference in Los Angeles. But with several key Wii U titles due in 2015 – including a new adventure in the blockbusting Zelda series – this is unlikely.

The legendary game designer did hint at a possible launch title, though. Talking about the evolution of his Mario character over the past 30 years, he said: “I think that maybe when we release the next hardware system, you can look forward to seeing Mario take on a new role or in a new game.”

According to many pundits at the time, one of the major weaknesses of the Wii U launch was that it was not backed with any big titles for classic Nintendo characters. The company is unlikely to make that mistake again.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/22/nintendo-games-console-mario-shigeru-miyamoto



Nintendo is working on its next console, which may be powered by AMD

Will Nintendo suddenly be the fastest horse in the race?

Nintendo's dropped several hints that it's already looking ahead to the Wii U's successor, but it's now being a tad more explicit about its plans.

Nintendo game design chief, Shigeru Miyamoto, has confirmed that the next console is in development, and even dropped a hint about who might be helping to launch it.

"While we're busy working on software for the Wii U, we have production lines that are working on ideas for what the next system might be," he said in an interview with the Associated Press. (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/miyamoto-amiibo-zelda-mario-movie-27699825?page=2)

What makes this (mostly unsurprising) news a tad more interesting is a separate announcement that may turn out to be nothing more than a coincidence. Recently AMD CFO Devinder Kumar announced that the company had just landed two big design wins. At the time he said: "one is x86 and the other is ARM, and at least one will be beyond gaming, right. But that is about as much as you going to get out me today. From the standpoint [of being] fair to [customers], it is their product, and they launch it. They are going to announce it and then […] you will find out that it is AMD's APU that is being used in those products."

It's unclear as to exactly which ARM project he's hinting at, but if it were to appear in the Wii U we're crossing our fingers that it's the Project Skybridge SoC that was announced earlier in the year.

More likely is that the next Nintendo console will be powered by a x8 SoC like the PS4 and Xbox One, but as we're probably not going to see the platform for at least a couple more years, who really knows?

Gettin' Shiggy with it

Shigeru Miyamoto also hinted that Mario might be the one to launch the console, however the Italian plumber may get a makeover beforehand. Miyamoto explained that, like the gradual evolution of Disney's Mickey Mouse, he'd like to see the next phase of Mario tie in with the next platform.

"With each digital evolution, [Mickey Mouse] was there to usher in the next era," he said. "I think that maybe when we release the next hardware system, you can look forward to seeing Mario take on a new role in a new game."

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/no-surprises-nintendo-is-working-on-its-next-console-which-may-be-powered-by-amd-1278084


related NeoGAF thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=957178)


Personally, I think Nintendo needs to launch the next console in fall 2017 with the next 3D Super Mario. A true successor to Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy. The console needs to have hardware that surpasses Xbox One and PlayStation 4 in every way. Unlike the Wii U which had a more modern GPU with a newer feature set than 360 / PS3 and more RAM, but actually had less shader performance under the hood and a far weaker & slower CPU.

Nintendo's next console will probably be coming around the middle of the PS4/XB1 generation, at least two years before Sony & Microsoft will have their next gen consoles out, probably just before 2020. Nintendo has to get their shit together on hardware, controller, OS / features, third party support, ease of HD development, online network, messaging / marketing, price and have a steady stream of games in the pipeline for year 1 and year 2.

[PizzaKat]

Agree on all points. It wouldn't hurt to have a couple of exclusives from third parties as well. Is Capcom still for sale? They got humbled this gen and even though the Wii U will make money I'm assuming they thought everyone would flock their system cause of the stupid name. I've read people online saying that they want Nintendo to be different and they don't care about 3rd parties. Like the world revolves around them. More 3rd parties obviously mean more money for the company after all this is a business. There's no reason why they can't make their great first party games and have both third parties like GTA, Call of Duty, Bioshock etc. It would be like the Super Nintendo days. They had practically everything on there. I don't see how people can't grasp this simple fact.

[kupomogli]

Nintendo needs to stop being cheap and put out a console that blows away the competition in 2016 in terms of power. No gimmicks because people don't want that, just your standard console that dwarfs the PS4 and Xbox One. 2016 at the latest because in a few more years after, Microsoft and Sony are going to be preparing their next console launches, so it'll give Nintendo a head start. Nintendo needs to show the public that they're not going to be using weaker hardware for a new console and what better to do it than a console that makes Uncharted 4 look like Tomb Raider 1 in comparison.

I think with more powerful hardware, the consumer will feel they're getting their money's worth this time around and Nintendo will get more third party support, even if it's just 1080p@60fps or 4k@60fps versions of what's being put on the Xbox One and PS4.

[Dr. BaconStein]

The problem I am seeing with third-party games on Nintendo is that (certain) people just do not buy them. Ever since the Wii, Nintendo has basically divorced itself from the rest of the industry, and its userbase followed suit. A lot of Nintendo's current fans are either skeptical or apathetic about third-party anything and tend to either ignore games, or assume they're bad just because they're third-party. For the past generation and a half, Nintendo has basically sustained itself by first-party games alone.

I've said this before, but it feels really odd not being able to connect with certain people on any level because they only play first-party Nintendo games and nothing else. It's kind of surreal when third-party used to be such a big deal on all of their 2D systems (including handhelds, GBA, DS) and even the GameCube.

I know there are a lot of poorly made third-party games, but if people don't buy the good ones when they do come, you can't blame developers for abandoning the platform.

[Tanooki]

No surprise, when are they not working in R&D on a system then narrowing it into something to produce?

I think they could benefit next time if they must keep with an individual console and handheld to be a year early, but this time do what third parties request and give them the hardware they need to produce the next level of games. This and last gen they were an entire step behind. Wii was on the level of the PS2 a half decade earlier, and then the Wii U on the level of a PS3 again a half decade later. The foolish idea you can disrupt the market and have a cheap system is a backfire, the wiggling fun of the Wiimote was an anomaly that paid off. Unless they intend to make another underpowered device that will again get ignored so they can have their own 'oculus' type 3D gaming experience to shake it up again they need to play in the same spec pond or get the f out. I think there's too many fish in the pond though at the same level anyway, they'd be best at sticking to one system, an over the top handheld with a console dock+controller to strap that to a TV. Be unique, be powerful, be useful on both fronts and only have to juggle one piece of hardware, the one they tend to not fail at, handheld pick up and play software and it's the same stuff they do get much third party help from since they don't screw that up.

I don't see any power behind saying Nintendo systems are for Nintendo only gamers because they won't buy third party stuff. The root problem there is the fact that third parties don't release stuff of the same quality at the same time and not cutting corners on a Nintendo system since the Gamecube, but Nintendo hasn't given them a reason to with their stupid design decisions. If they were out a year early, had the specs game makers wanted, there's no real good reason not to put the games there because people would be chomping at the bit for beefy new hardware that gets the best games in the best quality short of being a PC gamer and then coupled with the 1st/2nd party Nintendo game making magic. It worked in their far past for them and it could again, if they'd just extract their proverbial head from their collective asses.

[Rickstilwell1]

In other news, Sony is also talking about concepts for the PS5 and trying to decide whether it is better for them to go physical or cloud based. Console development always begins just after a new system is released so they can have it ready in 5 years.

[Tupin]

The 3rd party Nintendo circle is something that is incredibly harmful towards them. It's a circle that is perpetuated, fittingly enough, by three parties: consumers, third parties, and Nintendo themselves. All create an environment where Nintendo's games are the only ones that sell. I've said it before: you only need three things to enjoy the modern era of gaming: the newest Nintendo console, the newest Nintendo handheld, and a PC.

With the rumors that the first two are going to be combined next gen, you might only need two. But considering how well the 3DS is doing compared to the Wii U...

[parallaxscroll]

We know Iwata made a statement nearly 2 years ago in January 2013 about Nintendo re-organizing its hardware R&D groups. He also said that in 2012, they started working on a common architecture for their next gen handheld and next gen console. Not that they would make a single machine, but an architecture for common software development regardless of the actual performance of each system. Software would then be more transferable between handheld and console platforms.

Like how iOS games can be programmed for lower-end iPhones and more powerful iPads. That was the analogy Iwata gave in early 2014.

I guess another analogy would be like how PC games can work on average hardware configurations but also scale up, or down, for more powerful systems and lower-end systems.



Nintendo discusses its next-gen strategy beyond Wii U and 3DS

Future Nintendo platforms will share similar architecture, Iwata reveals. Being built to "make software assets more transferable" between either platform.

By David Scammell
31st Jan, 2013

Nintendo has begun discussing its strategy for its next-generation consoles beyond Wii U and Nintendo 3DS, revealing that it hopes to build an architecture that allows the firm to "make software assets more transferable" between either device, and avoid the software shortages it's seen with its current-generation platforms.

Development on the architecture for the future platforms began last year, president Satoru Iwata announced during the firm's Q3 financial results briefing last night, and the intention, it seems, is for future Nintendo titles to be compatible with either console.

"Last year we also started a project to integrate the architecture for our future platforms," said Iwata. "What we mean by integrating platforms is not integrating handhelds devices and home consoles to make only one machine. What we are aiming at is to integrate the architecture to form a common basis for software development so that we can make software assets more transferrable, and operating systems and their build-in applications more portable, regardless of form factor or performance of each platform."

Iwata's comments suggest that Nintendo hopes to be able to build the same games for both its next-generation home console and handheld device.

"They will also work to avoid software line-up shortages or software development delays which tend to happen just after the launch of new hardware," Iwata added.

"Some time ago it was technologically impossible to have the same architecture for handheld devices and home consoles and what we did was therefore reasonable."

The decision to share games between home and handheld consoles could shake up the industry.

Until now, the differences in technical capabilities between home and handheld consoles have forced publishers and developers to prepare individual titles for either market.

"Although it has not been long since we began to integrate the architecture and this will have no short-term result, we believe that it will provide a great benefit to our platform business in the long run," Iwata continued.

It all seems a bit too early for Nintendo to be discussing a successor to Wii U, of course. The console only launched in the UK in November. But with sales of the console failing to maintain momentum, could Nintendo be looking to move onto the next-generation sooner rather than later?

Source: Nintendo Corporate Management Policy Briefing/Third Quarter Financial Results Briefing (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html)


http://www.videogamer.com/news/nintendo_discusses_its_next-gen_strategy_beyond_wii_u_and_3ds.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html

Iwata made more statements early this year about form factors and whatnot, but it wasn't entirely clear which direction they would go.

http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ninplatform.png

He said it would take about 2 years to transform the hardware market.

So we could possibly be looking at a late 2016 launch for the next generation handheld. I would imagine the console would follow roughly a year later in 2017.

[Leo_A]

Personally, I think Nintendo needs to launch the next console in fall 2017 with the next 3D Super Mario.

I'd be surprised to see the Wii U last five years. I'm thinking more like 2016 and a reasonable four years.

The one thing it has going for it with the hybrid rumors is the New 3DS. Without that, I'd be thinking it might happen as early as next year when looking at the sales performance of the 3DS and the release calendar these days.

But with that and signs of some stabilization of their bleeding with the Wii U, they hopefully won't have trouble prolonging their presence in either market into at least 2016.


The console needs to have hardware that surpasses Xbox One and PlayStation 4 in every way.

I think it's more important that their hardware is common across both their handheld and their console lines. Software commonality is key to their future in both the console and handheld world, in my opinion.

[parallaxscroll]

IGN and GameSpot also reported the news, so it's not just lesser websites or something mistranslated from the AP.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs5sHjDdWRM

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/19/miyamoto-nintendo-working-on-ideas-for-next-console
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/miyamoto-confirms-work-underway-on-new-nintendo-co/1100-6424313/

[Leo_A]

That franchise always has done that to a degree, so I wouldn't call that news any more than the fact that they're underway with development and likely have been for a long time at this point with next generation hardware.

About the furthest that they ever have diverged from that is dipping into a spin-off on a couple of occasions or in some instances, a port of an older title for a handheld launch.

Edit: And not long after hitting submit, I remembered the Wii and the 3DS. So scratch this post...

[parallaxscroll]

Super Mario Sunshine also launched in 2002, nearly a year after the GameCube's release in 2001

Though to be fair, Sunshine was revealed along with cel-shaded Zelda at Space World 2001 that August.

[Leo_A]

Super Mario Sunshine also launched in 2002, nearly a year after the GameCube's release in 2001

And in that case, it launched with a spin-off from the Mario franchise in the form of Luigi's Mansion.

So I was covering both it and the Game Boy Color, which launched with Wario Land II. That particular one also falls into the latter category as well since it first appeared a year or so earlier on the standard Game Boy (Although I had Super Mario Advance for the GBA and Super Mario 64 DS in mind when I first posted).

If it wasn't for some recent anomalies, some sort of Mario project being planned for a Nintendo launch isn't particularly newsworthy in my mind. It's just traditional Nintendo practice to not leave out its biggest franchise of them all on day 1.

[parallaxscroll]

Nintendo’s next console will likely use x86 AMD chip, just like the Xbox One and PS4

By Sebastian Anthony on December 22, 2014 at 8:31 am

After securing both the Xbox One and PS4, it would appear that an AMD SoC will also be powering Nintendo’s next console. Nintendo has been hinting at new hardware for a while now, probably to appease any disgruntled gamers and shareholders over the Wii U’s lackluster impact in the eighth-generation console war — now, Shigeru Miyamoto has confirmed that Nintendo is working on a possible new gaming system, and AMD has confirmed that it’s got another major design win. Are they one and the same thing? Probably.

At a recent conference, AMD’s CFO Devinder Kumar said that the company had two major new design wins. When pushed on the details, he elaborated a little further, “I will say that one is x86 and the other is ARM, and at least one will be beyond gaming, right … They [the customers] are going to announce it and then … you will find out that it is AMD’s APU that is being used in those products.” When he talks about ARM, it’s hard to say if he’s talking about AMD’s 8-core Cortex-A57 server Opteron chip (which is rather boring), or a Project Skybridge SoC with a custom-designed ARM CPU. Hopefully it’s the latter, though that new ARM CPU isn’t due until 2016.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/amd-project-skybridge-arm-x86.jpg

Over the last six months, Nintendo has made a few hints that it was working on some new hardware. Back in May, the company said it was, rather intriguingly, working on a cheaper console for emerging markets. Now, in an interview with Associated Press, Shigeru Miyamoto said, “While we’re busy working on software for the Wii U, we have production lines that are working on ideas for what the next system might be.” In the same interview he said he wants to see Mario lead the way on the next console, likening the bearded plumber to Mickey Mouse.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ps4-system-board-wired.jpg
The innards of a PS4, with an AMD SoC at the heart of it

Assuming Nintendo’s next console isn’t due for another year or two, we’re probably looking at an x86 APU with Puma (next-gen Jaguar) CPU cores. At this point it’s impossible to say what GPU Nintendo might go for — it could go for something old and cheap (a 2012-era Pitcairn GCN 1.0 GPU like the PS4 and Xbox One), or it could opt for one of the newer GCN 1.1 or 1.2 cores like Tonga Pro. It will all depend on timing, and whether Nintendo wants to stick to its cheap-and-cheerful strategy or compete with Sony and Microsoft for the flashy visuals (and the rich 25-35 demographic that comes with them).

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/wii-u-cpu-ibm-renesas.jpg
The Wii U SoC (CPU and GPU), with the CPU made by IBM

If Nintendo does indeed go with a conventional x86 CPU/GPU, it will mark the first time, a) Nintendo hasn’t used some kind of crazy, non-conventional hardware, and b) that all of the console makers are using the same architecture. This might seem like a fairly dramatic move, but don’t forget that the last three generations of Nintendo console (the GameCube and later) have used an ATI or AMD GPU, paired with a Power architecture CPU custom designed by IBM. With x86 holding such a dominant position in the gaming market, and IBM mostly getting out of making chips, it wouldn’t be surprising to see Nintendo join the x86 bandwagon.

Of course, there is one other interesting possibility: Given ARM’s dominance in the mobile world, and the fact that almost all of Nintendo’s portables use ARM CPUs… maybe Nintendo’s new console really will go for AMD’s upcoming custom ARM CPU, paired with a beefy GPU.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/196303-nintendos-next-console-will-likely-use-x86-amd-chip-just-like-the-xbox-one-and-ps4

Not necessarily related (yet could very well be something like this) it just so happens AMD's next-gen CPU architecture is K12 and it is due in 2016, for products in 2016+

AMD says K12 can have either x86 or ARM CPU cores. From what I understand, K12 configurations can be desktop CPUs, laptops CPUs/APUs and mobile APUs as well. Basically anything AMD and their customers want. It makes a great deal of sense. AMD can and will customize K12 based CPUs/APUs to fit almost any product requirement.

Nintendo wants a unified architecture between handhelds and consoles. A small next-gen K12 (ARM or X86 based) APU with decent graphics for the next handheld (could easily surpass PS VITA which is ancient in the hardware world) and a larger, beefier, faster APU for the next console. Software/games would then be transferrable between both platforms. They share the same architecture. Obviously a console would have greater performance. Obviously a handheld has to be portable, running on battery power.

We'll see.

[BHvrd]

Nintendo wants a unified architecture between handhelds and consoles. A small next-gen K12 (ARM or X86 based) APU with decent graphics for the next handheld (could easily surpass PS VITA which is ancient in the hardware world) and a larger, beefier, faster APU for the next console. Software/games would then be transferrable between both platforms. They share the same architecture. Obviously a console would have greater performance. Obviously a handheld has to be portable, running on battery power.



Transferable gaming as opposed to the abysmal "streaming" is imo what "should" set them apart and put them ahead, but that's just the way I see it, though with streaming services making advancement I just don't know. To me it really comes down to people that want to own games and people that don't care and the way the industry is trending people just want to do everything in the cloud which is a shame honestly.

I'll be hoping Nintendo can buck the trend and set a new standard, but then again people hate Wii U but I love it, so I won't be holding my breathe and just enjoy what I like while I can, they have a chance I believe to change the industry though and I will remain hopeful and keep supporting the Wii U as I like what it stands for. Nintendo still has the core gamer at heart imho.

[parallaxscroll]

"Transferable" means ported between the two platforms, or, runs on both platforms, but with better graphics / higher resolution on the console.

As with lower-end PCs and higher-end PCs.

Nothing to do with streaming, that's an entirely different feature weather it is present in Nintendo's future platforms or not.

[Niku-Sama]

its not in Nintendo to use off the shelf components like they have so far, also comparing the PS4 and Xbone to the wii U is like comparing an apple to a bobcat. sure they both have the same end result, you play game on them, but the hardware to accomplish it is so drastically different. Nintendo isn't in the market to make little PCs with un impressive specs for x86 arc, they are in the market for RISC/ARM processors for do the job. Mostly because you get a better result with multimedia and rendering with RISC/ARM than with x86-64.

a lot of people always look at how the hardware is half the speed or less then that of console "X" but when it comes down to it its just not that much slower, or not slower at all depending on what your after.

on top of all of this, it'll be well after 2020 before we see a new launch unless some one goes and completely craps the bed and has to start from scratch, generations are running longer now, the hardware advance has slowed. but I guess at the same time they did just make a bunch of PCs instead of game consoles

[otaku]

I think Nintendo did fine with wii and wii u not graphically but the "gimmicks" were more important gameplay is more important than simply visuals and quality of games which the Nintendo titles alone provide. If they can get a few 3rd parties to increase releases on wii u or the next console and match ps4 or xboxone performance they will do very well

[WCP]

I think it's more important that their hardware is common across both their handheld and their console lines. Software commonality is key to their future in both the console and handheld world, in my opinion.


The idea behind this is great in theory. Unfortunately, I just don't think the technology is at a point where it would be cheap enough to put in a powerful enough processor and gpu into the handheld. I mean, if somebody made a super powerful handheld today, would it even be as powerful as a Xbox 360 or PS3 ? I doubt it. Maybe close to it in power, but not quite. You look at the Playstation Vita, and it's pretty close to the PS2 in power, but not quite, and that was the most powerful handheld at it's time of release.

So, that would leave Nintendo in the same position they are now. 3rd parties wouldn't be able to port their PS4 and Xbox One games to it.


Also, this is assuming that Nintendo would actually be willing to try to create a super powerful portable, and I just don't think that is in their DNA anymore.


Now, if there is a way for them to make both hardware platforms share the same GPU family in such a way that both the home console and the portable console can actually use the same software, just at different performance levels, that would be really, really cool, but that is something that I'll believe when I see.

But yeah, it's definitely going to be interesting to see where Nintendo goes with all of this.

[Leo_A]

The idea behind this is great in theory. Unfortunately, I just don't think the technology is at a point where it would be cheap enough to put in a powerful enough processor and gpu into the handheld. I mean, if somebody made a super powerful handheld today, would it even be as powerful as a Xbox 360 or PS3 ? I doubt it.

Vita isn't that far removed from the PS3/360/Wii U and that's now three years old.

So I see it as only a problem if they feel the need to again make a major increase in horsepower or perhaps even re-enter the videogame arms race. Yet when I look at games like Mario Kart 8 and examine their strategy over the past decade, I can easily see them deciding that this plateau is powerful enough to meet their needs.

And don't forget about scalability [Edit: Clearly you haven't, now that I read the second half of your post]. We're not necessarily talking about an all-purpose device that you take with you on the go and then plug into your tv when at home. I can easily see a dedicated handheld and a dedicated console. The handheld would suffice with such things as 480p resolution, while the console could enhance each title such as with additional RAM.

What's important is the commonality for software development. The ability to sell to all Nintendo owners, rather than just a portion of the pie, is why this concept is so important when Nintendo is all but alone on both their console and their handheld today.

I just don't see how they can win if they continue to split their development resources in half.

[Tanooki]

I don't see it either which is why I've been on that kick for a few years now. The WiiU bombed, but let's pretend that at least from the get go and sustained has maintained par, no losses or a few million (crap money to a company that size) in the positive. Look at the 3DS alone in how much money it has racked up in sales each year, even as it has diminished in sales in recent times as it has aged. If the WiiU had just did that or never existed they'd be in such a far better and stronger position. The next system with all those fun pictures and stuff above would benefit from something like that where you can develop for one platform but scale it like a PC to where it works on somewhat lesser hardware. The thing is it wouldn't have to be that much lesser, Sony proved that one. Look at both their handhelds. The PSP was when not run at a lower capacity to save battery was somewhat fairly comparable to the PS2 in potential, and the Vita it does have some shared assets and code shared with the PS3 as it's pretty close in power to what the last generation of systems could do. Sure they never lit the world on fire with either but they made good money on both despite their own mishandling of things on both systems. A unified Nintendo format handheld and console, or the 2in1 thing I said before too would put them in a far better position. Even if the next hardware is just kind of less nice than the other guys, but the gap isn't as wide again as this go around, you could see games scaled to everything because if the code/assets were portable between a new handheld and a new console it would be foolish not to just drag and drop the code to the console instantly giving it(unlike WiiU) a library and a library means buyers and not just Nintendo only buyers.

[parallaxscroll]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-in-theory-nintendos-next-gen-hardware-and-the-strategy-behind-it



In Theory: Nintendo's next-gen hardware - and the strategy behind it

Digital Foundry on the tech that best matches the Big N's revamped approach to console R&D.

By: Richard Leadbetter Published 10/01/2015

Around 18 months ago, during an informal chat with an extremely well-placed individual in the hardware manufacturing business, an interesting nugget of information dropped into the conversation - Nintendo was already accepting pitches from third parties on the hardware make-up of its successor for Wii U. Two names were mentioned: AMD and Imagination Technologies, creators of the PowerVR mobile graphics tech. With the lack of backing sources, that little aside never made it to print, but as Nintendo strives to bounce back from the Wii U sales disappointment, eyes inevitably turn towards future platforms.

Is it too early to be talking about new Nintendo hardware? Perhaps - but the fact is that the firm itself has been very open about the general direction it is taking going forward, to the point where it has restructured its entire R&D around a new strategy, designed to address its issues in getting software to market, with fundamental implications for the technological make-up of its next-gen hardware. Handheld and traditional console are now overseen by a single, integrated department, run by Nintendo veteran, Genyo Takeda. The company is openly questioning the future of its business: whether to continue with both handheld and console, to combine them into a single product, or to perhaps expand the range still further. Whatever solution is chosen, integration is key.

"Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development," Satoru Iwata said during a corporate management Q+A back in March 2014.

"However, because of vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration. We discussed this point, and we ultimately concluded that it was the right time to integrate the two teams. For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U."

The difficulty of the process hasn't stopped Nintendo trying though, with some excellent results. For example, in our recent analysis of Super Smash Bros., we found two games that had as many commonalities as differences, while at the nuts and bolts level, titles like Mario Kart 7 on 3DS and its Wii U successor are fundamentally very similar games, based on a shared development ethos. Assuming Nintendo retains both a handheld and home console in future, we don't expect to see the firm releasing the exact same games on both systems; rather we expect to see titles similar to its existing efforts, tailored and refined for each audience - just with a common architectural underpinning that makes behind-the-scenes development that much faster.

"If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms," Iwata underlined.

It's an astute observation. Nintendo produces a unique style of game that Sony, Microsoft and the third parties can't - and usually don't even try to - match. N64 and GameCube demonstrated that Nintendo doesn't need to win the console war in order to be hugely profitable, it simply has to do what it does best - preferably with the killer software arriving at launch. The company is in a tough position at the moment, but it's not down to Nintendo losing its touch in terms of the quality of its games. Rather, it's been a question of logistics: with resources spread across two very different technological platforms, Nintendo's output has been held back, with launch periods for both Wii U and 3DS proving particularly troublesome. Neither was supported with a Super Mario 64-style game-changer, with the must-have software taking too long to arrive. The new integration strategy seeks to address this.

Historically Nintendo has been rather insular - behind the times, even - but Iwata and his team are now taking cues from competition in the wider world. In iOS and Android, Nintendo sees platforms that allow games to migrate across to many different types of gaming hardware.

"Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform," Iwata explained. "To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples."

In short, Nintendo's new hardware should be adaptable, flexible and capable of running the same core code and basic assets across a range of hardware. While Android and iOS represent the kind of framework Nintendo aspires to, they do not offer the kind of granular 'to the metal' access to the hardware a console-maker requires. They are designed to work across multiple generations of different architectures, but the end result is often unfocused performance. Nintendo has a golden opportunity to partner with a single vendor that offers the same core technology and feature-set across a wide gamut of power levels, accommodating handheld, console or any other device the firm wants to develop.

The timing for Nintendo's more integrated next-gen strategy couldn't have been better. Recent trends in gaming technology are based very much on the kind scalability Nintendo will be interested in. Take Nvidia, for example. It developed the Maxwell tech found in Tegra X1 as a mobile architecture first and foremost, then scaled it up to top-of-the-line PC graphics cards. The potential of this kind of scalability for Nintendo is immense, though its published ideas on what form its architecture should take don't quite seem to make sense when the alternatives are so much more enticing.

"While we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture," Iwata said. "It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems."

Here's where things get a little tricky. Creating a scalable platform isn't a vast undertaking in partnership with the right hardware vendor - but basing it on the Wii U is fundamentally a bad idea. The hardware make-up of Nintendo's last console is based on two key components - ancient PowerPC cores from IBM (the presence of which appears to have been dictated mostly by Wii back-compatability), along with DirectX 10-era graphics technology from AMD. While the Wii U was a power-efficient design, its PowerPC CPU architecture would be immensely difficult to scale down to mobile, while AMD left the kind of graphics tech utilised by the Wii U behind many, many years ago.

The many-core CPU approach, combined with AMD Radeon technology can be replicated - but only in the broadest terms. Iwata himself recognizes the "vast technological improvements" made between the launch of 3DS and Wii U, but that incredible progress has pushed on to new levels since then, and it would be counter-productive to attempt to base new consoles on an existing, out-dated design.

Wii U certainly has some interesting elements to its technical make-up - it's just that more modern technologies do the same job more efficiently and more cheaply. Nintendo incorporated both CPU and GPU into a multi-chip package, allowing for speedier interconnects and greater power efficiency. However, while an interesting solution, it lacks the elegance, integration and especially the cost benefits of the integrated SoC (system on chip), where all components sit on the same piece of silicon. Wii U also used out-dated production technologies - a 45nm process for its CPU, and 55nm for the GPU. Xbox One and PS4 both launched 12 months later with completely integrated processors at 28nm, the same kind of technology that would have been available to Nintendo if it had embraced a more modern design. For back-compat purposes, Nintendo may wish to hold onto the Wii U architecture, but on the flipside, the lack of commercial success for the latest Nintendo console means that there is less pressure for the firm to continue to support this feature.

Looking for other elements of the Wii U architecture that could potentially carry over to the next-gen machines is even more difficult, especially when the development tools are considered. In this area, Nintendo definitely needs to modernise. "The development environment for Wii U was horrible, clunky, outdated and very slow," a high-profile developer who worked on the system told us.

"Nobody in their right mind would want to keep that moving forward. Even their asymmetrical setup of cores was strange and difficult to adapt to initially, with the CPUs being very weak and the GPU being quite powerful (for the time)."

What Nintendo is looking for in its next-gen hardware is a cheap, efficient architecture with in-built scalability, able to run comfortably in both handheld and console forms. We've mentioned Nvidia's enviable scalability, but there are plenty of other potential partners to choose from, kicking off with the two names mentioned in passing to us so long ago - Imagination Technologies and AMD. In the former, we see a UK company with some of the most advanced mobile GPU parts on the market - its eight-core PowerVR contribution to the iPad Air providing last-gen console-beating power in a tablet form factor. Its latest 6-series 'Rogue' architecture is a proven force on mobile, and based on the firm's whitepapers, the GPU should scale up to provide enough power to produce a generational leap beyond the Wii U.

Despite a lack of impact in the mobile market, AMD also has much to offer Nintendo in terms of scalable solutions. It already has Xbox One and PS4 design wins under its belt, and downscaled versions of the same technology are available for mobile form factors, via its fascinating, if woefully underutilised 'Mullins' processor. There's a huge power delta between its PS4 processor and the mobile-orientated Mullins, but Nintendo has already proven that it's capable of scaling games between handheld and console - and it has done so, albeit with difficulty, using two radically different architectures. The key here is easier integration and faster development.

Assuming that Nintendo's next hardware launch takes the form of a 3DS replacement, Nvidia is also in with a good shout at becoming the Mario maker's partner of choice. It's a proven SoC designer, capable of delivering stellar results on both mobile and larger form factors. There is some history there, though - 3DS was originally based on Nvidia Tegra hardware, prototype devkits where in circulation, but the deal went south for reasons unknown.

Timescale-wise, it's difficult to picture any new Nintendo hardware (be it console or handheld) arriving before 2016 - more likely 2017 - but what's important to keep in mind is that despite arriving midway through the console generation (as defined by Sony and Microsoft at least), the company is unlikely to utilize the absolute best technology available at that point. Nintendo views its hardware decisions in a very different way to almost every other games technology vendor. To use Genyo Takeda's parlance, a Nintendo machine is defined by a combination of technology and entertainment, not raw specs.

"Nintendo tries not to emphasize the raw technical specifications of our hardware," he explained. "We have focused on how we can use technology to amplify the value of our entertainment offerings, and in this sense, technology for us is something that stays in the background... It is not just the computational power of a computer that is important, but it is the way in which technology can connect with entertainment in ways that are easy for consumers to understand."

Historically, that has translated into weaker than expected processing hardware, married up with a state-of-the-art 'twist' - a 'magnifying factor' as Nintendo calls it, be it the ultra-low latency GamePad video streaming tech, the 3DS' auto-stereoscopic screen, or the Wii's innovative controller. The BOM (bill of materials, or raw cost) is also a key concern for Nintendo - an often-overlooked element of the Wii's success was the fact that it was significantly cheaper than the Xbox 360 and PS3 at launch. Nintendo's next-gen hardware doesn't need to be the absolute state of the art, but it will arrive when its competition will be cutting prices, and needs to be price-competitive out of the gate, whether it's challenging Xbox One and PS4, or the sheer ubiquity of smartphones and tablets on the handheld side. Hopefully the spectacular own-goal of the 3DS launch price-point will dissuade the firm from squeezing a price-premium from its early adopting core audience.

The question of just how powerful the hardware needs to be depends to a certain extent on Nintendo's approach to third-party support. Part of the problem with Wii U was the fact that it was attempting to do something new and different, while at the same time making a play for multi-platform developers - few of whom ended up putting a lot of effort into using the GamePad effectively, and who found it hard to translate Xbox 360 and PS3 titles across to a platform with a very different hardware balance. Meanwhile, Nintendo itself continues to produce unique, visually brilliant games irrespective of the spec. Third party software has never dominated Nintendo's bestseller charts - even during the Wii's period of market dominance - something Iwata himself acknowledges:

"Many people say that when a platform loses its momentum, it tends to receive little third-party support," he said. "But I think it is not a matter of the number of titles but the real problem lies in the availability of popular software that is selling explosively."

In short, it's a case of quality over quantity, with tacit acceptance that it will be Nintendo (and 'second party' partners) that once again provides the must-have titles that define the console experience. Getting the release schedule right is, as Nintendo has accepted, more a matter of logistics - integrating development to spread across its platforms, allowing for more titles from the existing teams. There's also the question of initial momentum. The Nintendo N64 hardware might have been delayed, but the wait was worthwhile - launching with Super Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64 (and Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire in Europe) saw Nintendo hit the ground running in a way that GameCube and Wii U couldn't achieve.

Nintendo's approach to game-making is straightforward enough - in theory, at least. It aims to create titles that, in its own words, "put smiles on people's faces", believing that it requires a combination of its unique approach to software with bespoke hardware designed to 'amplify' the experience. Both work in concert, meaning that Nintendo continues to shy away from developing games for other systems. It's impossible to predict what the amplifying factor will be for the firm's next hardware - perhaps the tighter integration between its devices will open up possibilities on its own - but what's clear is that Nintendo's new strategy can only mean good things for its talented designers, artists and engineers - and there's no shortage of potential hardware partners that can deliver the technology to match the integrated vision.

[Tanooki]

Fascinating article you linked and again it ties into that stuff I've spouted off on before Iwata brought it up nearly a year ago, scalability into a singular format that can work as one unit where you can dock to a tv or not, or just similar hardware that scales like a mid to a high level PC that runs the same code/stuff but clearly the beefier box appears nicer using the same assets. I think that would salvage Nintendo.

Parts wise, if they learned their lesson, and I hope they did, I hope the flip IBM and AMD the big old bird and jumps ship to what the article said with the differing CPU and GPU tech rounded out by Nvidia. AMD has slacked badly the last few years I've noticed, they don't get the love or the support, the parts don't hack it as well as nvidia which is kind of sad (used to be HUGE on AMD GPUS.) This new laptop of mine is the pinnacle of nvidias new tech on the market, scalability(the article here above is about) on having them make ONE processor that works both on a desktop but also a portable end, and at minimal loss of power. Previous laptop GPUs by them (or amd) would lose 50% of the capability for the same s0-called tech inside. Nvidia figured a new way to do it and the loss is 15-20%. My mobile 980M processor is as solid as being between the 970 and 980 desktop model, minimal hit. Imagine Nintendo getting a decent CPU that could handle a beefier GPU (kind of like WiiU does, one thing it does right) that won't bottleneck. They could then make a handheld and a console, perhaps an optional dock for the handheld to work on a TV, and either system having the same parts but just scaled a tier lesser (like the 980 vs 980M gpu from nvidia.) Their costs being cut would be HUGE. Development for essentially one platform, two form factors, and all the third parties could make a game that would work on either platform with no hiccups as it's still a closed environment unlike the millions of part combos of a PC. Despite my disgust with how the Wii and WiiU ended up and me ditching both of them, I'd buy another system if they took this route because the odds of failure and no third party support would be far far smaller. They overseas or here could develop for one platform yet reach two styles of gamer -- on the go, on your couch without double the costs in game making.

[Leo_A]

This might be out of turn again for me to say, but paragraphs would make that so much easier to read.

As for Nintendo's future hardware direction, not only does commonality make a lot of strategic sense, but I also want to see it for selfish reasons. I've largely only bought their handhelds for access to their exclusives, not because I have any sort of need for portability.

If I can get away with just buying a single system that's connected to my tv to enjoy next gen Nintendo software, that suits me perfectly (And perhaps compatibility with the Wii U gamepad for off-screen play, something they've mentioned before as wanting to retain and a feature I do appreciate from time to time).

[y9784]

When does Nintendo or any other game hardware manufacturer stop working on new hardware? This article stinks. It's like saying the sky is blue.