Everdrive questions

[Edmond Dantes]

I'm thinking of getting an Everdrive or some other "allows you to play downloaded roms on a real console" device, mostly cuz I want to play romhacks like Zelda Outlands and Super Metroid Redesign and this seems more economical than buying a repro cart.

But I'm wondering about a few things. Some of these questions might seem boneheaded, but better safe than sorry.

Here goes.

1. Can you save your game on games like Zelda which have battery-backed saving, or does the data get lost as soon as you turn off the console?

2. Can the SNES version do games that use the Super FX or other enhancement chips, or do I need a repro cart for those?

3. How exactly does loading multiple roms on the thing work? Does it give you a list when you turn on the console and ask you to select your game or what?

4. Are there alternatives to the Everdrive I should know about?

5. If the answer to 4 is "yes," what are their pros and cons compared to the Everdrive?

Thanks in advance.

[JSoup]

Last I had looked into it, the best "allows you to play downloaded roms on a real console" device would be the OUYA. Simply, turn it on, download the emulator of your choice, load up ROMs in the SD slot and play.

[scooby105]

Last I had looked into it, the best "allows you to play downloaded roms on a real console" device would be the OUYA. Simply, turn it on, download the emulator of your choice, load up ROMs in the SD slot and play.

The OUYA doesn't allow you to play games on the real console. It allows you to play games on the OUYA. If someone is looking for emulation, there are better options than the OUYA.

[scooby105]

I'm thinking of getting an Everdrive or some other "allows you to play downloaded roms on a real console" device, mostly cuz I want to play romhacks like Zelda Outlands and Super Metroid Redesign and this seems more economical than buying a repro cart.

But I'm wondering about a few things. Some of these questions might seem boneheaded, but better safe than sorry.

Here goes.

1. Can you save your game on games like Zelda which have battery-backed saving, or does the data get lost as soon as you turn off the console?

2. Can the SNES version do games that use the Super FX or other enhancement chips, or do I need a repro cart for those?

3. How exactly does loading multiple roms on the thing work? Does it give you a list when you turn on the console and ask you to select your game or what?

4. Are there alternatives to the Everdrive I should know about?

5. If the answer to 4 is "yes," what are their pros and cons compared to the Everdrive?

Thanks in advance.

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4. Yes

The Everdrive cartridges are generally the way to go. All the Everdrive cartridges will save your games like a battery will.

For SNES, SD2SNES is the cartridge you want. It doesn't do Super FX and a few others, but it does most.

For Genesis, Mega Everdrive is the cartridge you want. It can do save statesmanship some other things.

For the other systems that have Everdrives available, they are the way to go. I use the NES PowerPak for my Nintendo, but the Everdrive version is just as good or better.

There are other options available for systems the Everdrive is not for, such as Game Boy Advance, Neo Geo Pocket, Dreamcast, Saturn, Atari 2600, Intellivision, etc. Generally, you can just search for system name + flash cart and you'll find information. There's also a thread on AtariAge in the Classic Gaming (I think) forum that has a large list of different flash carts / drive emulators / etc.

[kai123]

SD2SNES is the one I am saving up for at the moment. It was designed by someone other than Krikzz but he manufactures it for him so he must like it somewhat. Krikzz btw is the creator of the everdrive series.

[Zthun]

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4. Yes

The Everdrive cartridges are generally the way to go. All the Everdrive cartridges will save your games like a battery will.

For SNES, SD2SNES is the cartridge you want. It doesn't do Super FX and a few others, but it does most.

For Genesis, Mega Everdrive is the cartridge you want. It can do save statesmanship some other things.

For the other systems that have Everdrives available, they are the way to go. I use the NES PowerPak for my Nintendo, but the Everdrive version is just as good or better.

There are other options available for systems the Everdrive is not for, such as Game Boy Advance, Neo Geo Pocket, Dreamcast, Saturn, Atari 2600, Intellivision, etc. Generally, you can just search for system name + flash cart and you'll find information. There's also a thread on AtariAge in the Classic Gaming (I think) forum that has a large list of different flash carts / drive emulators / etc.

The SuperEverdrive only does the basic chipset. If your games have special chips (MegaMan X2, Super Mario RPG, StarFox, etc), then they won't play on the Super Everdrive and you will need the SD2SNES to play them (very expensive). The alternative is the Deluxe SuperEverdrive sold at StoneAgeGamer which comes with only the DSP-1 chip installed (basically, you can play Mario Kart and some japanese games).

[kai123]

The SuperEverdrive only does the basic chipset. If your games have special chips (MegaMan X2, Super Mario RPG, StarFox, etc), then they won't play on the Super Everdrive and you will need the SD2SNES to play them (very expensive). The alternative is the Deluxe SuperEverdrive sold at StoneAgeGamer which comes with only the DSP-1 chip installed (basically, you can play Mario Kart and some japanese games).



Super F/X is not implemented on the SD2SNES yet.

[Leo_A]

And at this point, likely never will be.

Thankfully, it only really effects Star Fox 2. The few Super FX titles are either dirt cheap, or at least likely already a part of someone's collection (I imagine Yoshi's Island is on the expensive side).

[JSoup]

The OUYA doesn't allow you to play games on the real console. It allows you to play games on the OUYA.

I somehow completely missed the words "on real console" when I posted. :D


If someone is looking for emulation, there are better options than the OUYA.

Straight emulation, yes.
All the conveniences and aesthetics of a having a real console, debatable.

[Tanooki]

Everdrive is basically the best bet unless you're into the SNES stuff as SD2SNES plays many of the chipped games and is trying to add more (FX is on the current thing being worked on if I remember right.) Any of the everdrives (or that) will work like a real game and save like a real one too just to the everdrive instead of the original battery backed chip so even hacks will work. Loading of many roms just means you have a menu to push through to the game you want. And again other than SD2SNES I can't think of anything someone else makes that's overall better.

[Edmond Dantes]

Super Everdrive so far is the only one that seems to have compatibility issues with games. Are there any compatibility thingies I should know about with the other Everdrives? (I imagine the Genesis one can't do Virtua Racing or 32X games)

For any of the SNES flashcarts, the main point of interest to me is just playing the hacked versions of games I already like--like Zelda: Parallel Worlds or Super Metroid Redesign or Super ZeroMission. I imagine as long as A Link to the Past, Super Mario World and Super Metroid work, all their hacks will work?

Anything else I should be warned about before plucking down money? It would suck if I bought the NES one and found out it can't play Earthbound Zero or will eat your save games if you don't sing the star-spangled banner to it every night before bed, for example...

[badinsults]

As far as compatibility with games that were actually released on the SNES, the Super Everdrive and SD2SNES are at the same level. It all comes down to features. Are you willing to live with loading times? The Super Everdrive can take upwards of one minute to load a game, while the SD2SNES is pretty much instantaneous. Do you want to try the growing list of MSU-1 hacks? You will need a SD2SNES. Do you want to play Mega Man X2 and X3? They will not work on Super Everdrive. Whether or not these things are enough for you to consider the extra money is up to you (though the cost of Mega Man X2 and X3 alone is probably on the order of the price difference). Neither flash cart has a problem with game saves, which is a step up from the SNES Powerpak. I personally think both flash carts are great (I own both).

As for Super Mario World hacks, prepare to be disappointed. Although I think the community has tried to rectify some of the issues, the vast majority of SMW hacks used this exploit in an old version of ZSNES to play different music. However, when these hacks are played on a real snes, they will ultimately crash.

[Tanooki]

I think you have it figured out. I never bought one but did read into it a good bit and the Everdrives are all the best bang for the buck, even the SNES one if you're not stuck on wanting to play some of the chipped games. The SD2SNES won't play SuFami Turbo games(JP only), SA-1, Super FX1/2, SDD-1, and some other off hand 1-3 game JP only title stuff. It will handle all the 1-4 DSP chips and the Mega Man X2/X3 CX4 and whatever else doesn't fall on this incompatability list -- http://sd2snes.de/blog/compatibility Basically the Everdrive does what SD2SNES does minus the CX4 chip and eventually the FX whenever he figures that out as it's in development and has been a long time.

BS games are hit and miss depending on satellite features, but stuff like patched BS Zelda or BS FZero would work, but they should on an everdrive too.

Maybe someone else knows this, but can the Everdrive or SD2SNES handle the SDD1 games if the graphics are decompressed for it? A couple emulators years ago on PC ran SFAlpha 2 and Star Ocean by decompressing the graphic assets into a folder.

I'd say this much if I hadn't shelved my systems and got a Retron5 I'd strongly consider a SNES and NES style Everdrive, and that GBA one in development is very tempting since I still use my GB Micro.

[Greg2600]

The newest Super Everdrive loads MUCH faster than it ever has. It's not instant like the SD2SNES, but it's not that bad. As for compatibility, I believe Super ED will play nearly all the BS games (Satellaview), and will play DSP-1 games if you have the donor chip installed. Unfortunately neither Stone Age nor Retrogate (Krikzz) are installing them anymore. SD2SNES has somewhat better saving, and slightly better game compatibility. However, if you can install a DSP-1 yourself, you're probably going to save around $90 by going with the Super ED over the SD2SNES. MSU1 is cool, I love that more games are being hacked (CD audio added), but SED is the better "value."

[Gatucaman]

Forget the fact that SuperFX is not implemented yet on SD2SNES, most of the games are still cheap and accessible to own with the sole exception of Yoshi's Island and you can buy the Japanese version for cheap, and most SuperFX games are either gimmicky games like Stunt Race and Dirt Trax FX, which quite frankly never appeal to me, or garbage like the SNES port of Doom, plus never cared for Star Fox 1.

The real deal is the fact that SA-1 is not yet implemented, and probably NEVER WILL, that's the one it should been worked on from the get go, because that one has fricking Super Mario RPG, Kirby's Super Star, Kirby's Dreamland 3, the third parodius game on Super Famicom & Marvelous: Another Treasure Island.

Granted the rest are either shovel-ware or games that are just passable like Dragonball Z Hyper Dimension, but the fact that for most of these games you can buy the japanese versions for cheap or reasonable, but the giant exceptions are of course Super Mario RPG which most people cant buy the US version for cheap or reasonable anymore due to the speculator money hungry epidemic and Marvelous which can only be played via translation (if it exist, i don't know), such a shame, well i guess there's repro cart option, but i wonder if buying one of the cheapest SA-1 games with chip like those derby games would work.....

Honestly, i find no reason to invest on the SD2SNES at all, since the chip-based titles that are worth a damn are few, and the only ones that require to be played in english are Marvelous and Mario RPG, and quite frankly, there's the question, what if you regret investing in some of them, heck i finally got Rockman X3 and gues what? it SUCKS ASS!!! :grumble:

I still need to get Jikkyoh Oshaberi Parodius, Dreamland 3, Yoshi's Island, Mario Kart and the one which is gonna be a pain, Mario RPG in english.

Now, then again, the day that someone ports the real Rondo of Blood on the SNES via the MSU-1 chip.........

[Greg2600]

Forget the fact that SuperFX is not implemented yet on SD2SNES, most of the games are still cheap and accessible to own with the sole exception of Yoshi's Island and you can buy the Japanese version for cheap, and most SuperFX games are either gimmicky games like Stunt Race and Dirt Trax FX, which quite frankly never appeal to me, or garbage like the SNES port of Doom, plus never cared for Star Fox 1.

The real deal is the fact that SA-1 is not yet implemented, and probably NEVER WILL, that's the one it should been worked on from the get go, because that one has fricking Super Mario RPG, Kirby's Super Star, Kirby's Dreamland 3, the third parodius game on Super Famicom & Marvelous: Another Treasure Island.

Now, then again, the day that someone ports the real Rondo of Blood on the SNES via the MSU-1 chip.........

True on SuperFX. It was a big deal because ikari_01 (creator of SD2SNES) made it sound like it was going to happen, but he kind of hit a brick wall. The SD2SNES is open source, so anyone out there is free to attempt to map one of these chips. As for Rondo, someone I know modified Dracula X to use Rondo's CD tracks. Just have to get him to post it, but you'll never have the exact Turbo Duo game ported.

[SparTonberry]

The real deal is the fact that SA-1 is not yet implemented, and probably NEVER WILL, that's the one it should been worked on from the get go, because that one has fricking Super Mario RPG, Kirby's Super Star, Kirby's Dreamland 3, the third parodius game on Super Famicom & Marvelous: Another Treasure Island.



Because SA-1 is probably the most powerful and complex of them all.
(except for the Japanese chess game that used an ARM, but probably nobody cares that one. Maybe not even the Japanese, as I hear the AI wasn't THAT great despite its relatively powerful CPU :D )

Though I do wonder why Panic Bomber uses an SA-1? Is it the multiplayer mode?
That game seems to like being on overkill hardware. "There's just one problem: why the HELL is it on Virtual Boy?" :D

[Tanooki]

I think it's a bit harsh tearing on the SFX chip and DOOM isn't that terrible either, at least if you use a hot save feature since the fools gave none, not even a password. SA-1 is the big one, but also even if it just has 2 games the SDD1 is a nice one with SF Alpha 2 and Star Ocean.

You did leave off that the SuperED/ED do not play CX4 so that leaves out MegaMan X2/X3. I do understand though again, there are the Japanese versions and they do not use that, so if you don't mind losing the lame story you can still play and for notably less. Those two games cost so much more they more than cover the price difference of the Everdrive to the SD2SNES if you love those (I don't at all.)

Also does the everdrive cover just the DSP1 or DSP1-4, pretty sure SD2SNES does them all.

I don't think since SD2SNES will ever get the FX chip down let alone the SA1 or the SDD1 that it's worth the grossly expensive price tag, but depending on your tastes it could I suppose.



Panic Bomber is also a PCEngine SuperCD game too. Maybe they wanted to carry over those assets while also copyprotecting it since that was an added perk of the chip.

[genesisguy]

I've had trouble getting Rom Hacks to work on my Super Everdrive and Everdrive 8. If you google either of those flashcarts and "rom hacks" not working. You'll find plenty of threads relating to those issues on krikzz.com

But aside from that I love these things and haven't had any issues.

[Greg2600]

I've had trouble getting Rom Hacks to work on my Super Everdrive and Everdrive 8. If you google either of those flashcarts and "rom hacks" not working. You'll find plenty of threads relating to those issues on krikzz.com

But aside from that I love these things and haven't had any issues.

The SNES is very temperamental when it comes to the rom header. If it's not the right size and all, won't play. Emulators ignore this, so the games work. Many of the rom hackers, as well as prototype dumpers, don't test the stuff on real hardware, so they don't bother fixing the headers. Awhile ago, Krikzz put in an option to circumvent this check, and then most of the proto's that weren't working for me, did.

[calgon]

Actually just ordered a genesis everdrive this morning. The ability for it to also play master system games put it over the edge for me. Can't wait.

[Tanooki]

Now that's handy with the SMS addon to that one. I'd go for these things but my hardware is either put up or non-existent except for the GBA. :\ I have been considering for a long while into last year a Genesis (original branded) but then I ended up with the R5 and I still have yet to bite on a game but I know I will when the time is right.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I know it's not the hipster solution, but take it from me: the Ouya is the answer to what you seek.

I own several of the EverDrive flashcarts, but I honestly seldom use them.

You are better off buying an Ouya and a Mayflash SNES to USB adapter. Not only is it cheaper, your games will run in 1080p, you'll have access to pretty much everything (compatibility through the Ouya's .emu series is even stronger than via the real hardware and the Everdrives) and plus, you'll also have an Ouya which has matured at this point into having quite the library of games of its own. Plus XBMC. Beatuiful XMBC. While I'm not against the Ouya controller, the reason I say to buy an SNES to USB adapter is to maintain a degree of familiarity; the SNES controller is perfect for running NES, SNES, Genesis, PC Engine, GB/GBC, GBA and many other emulators as well.

Plus keep in mind the Ouya also supports pretty much any USB controller and that includes the Xbox 360 and PS3 controllers. You can even get the PS3 controller working with the Ouya via wireless blutooth.

[calgon]

I have an ouya and while satoshi is right about the comparability and superior look, it's just not the real thing to me. If if the emulation is 99.9% accurate it still feels a bit off to me, perhaps it's just the input delay, as minute as it is

[Gentlegamer]

I have the SD2SNES, it's amazing. So far, it's had no problem playing ROM hack translations of Final Fantasy IV, V, and Dragon Quest I.

[Zthun]

I know it's not the hipster solution, but take it from me: the Ouya is the answer to what you seek.

I own several of the EverDrive flashcarts, but I honestly seldom use them.

You are better off buying an Ouya and a Mayflash SNES to USB adapter. Not only is it cheaper, your games will run in 1080p, you'll have access to pretty much everything (compatibility through the Ouya's .emu series is even stronger than via the real hardware and the Everdrives) and plus, you'll also have an Ouya which has matured at this point into having quite the library of games of its own. Plus XBMC. Beatuiful XMBC. While I'm not against the Ouya controller, the reason I say to buy an SNES to USB adapter is to maintain a degree of familiarity; the SNES controller is perfect for running NES, SNES, Genesis, PC Engine, GB/GBC, GBA and many other emulators as well.

Plus keep in mind the Ouya also supports pretty much any USB controller and that includes the Xbox 360 and PS3 controllers. You can even get the PS3 controller working with the Ouya via wireless blutooth.

But how well does it run the 3D games? My N64 flash cart runs them perfectly. This change is usually where emulation falls apart.

[TheChristoph]

I know it's not the hipster solution, but take it from me: the Ouya is the answer to what you seek.

I own several of the EverDrive flashcarts, but I honestly seldom use them.

You are better off buying an Ouya and a Mayflash SNES to USB adapter. Not only is it cheaper, your games will run in 1080p, you'll have access to pretty much everything (compatibility through the Ouya's .emu series is even stronger than via the real hardware and the Everdrives) and plus, you'll also have an Ouya which has matured at this point into having quite the library of games of its own. Plus XBMC. Beatuiful XMBC. While I'm not against the Ouya controller, the reason I say to buy an SNES to USB adapter is to maintain a degree of familiarity; the SNES controller is perfect for running NES, SNES, Genesis, PC Engine, GB/GBC, GBA and many other emulators as well.

Plus keep in mind the Ouya also supports pretty much any USB controller and that includes the Xbox 360 and PS3 controllers. You can even get the PS3 controller working with the Ouya via wireless blutooth.

I asked about this elsewhere but didn't get much in the way of a response. Do the emulators on the Ouya have much in the way of filters and shaders? I like messing around with them; you need chunky sprite accuracy but sometimes it's fun to play with a super eagle filter.

[Tanooki]

My understanding when I asked was yes, but depending on the system and even the game involved you're not going to get 100% performance as far as framerate and things go. It's basic not stable for 'perfection' depending on the game you're doing.

[Greg2600]

I asked about this elsewhere but didn't get much in the way of a response. Do the emulators on the Ouya have much in the way of filters and shaders? I like messing around with them; you need chunky sprite accuracy but sometimes it's fun to play with a super eagle filter.

N64 and Ps1 should run okay, I've tried them. They are the same emus you'd get on PC, so yes they have filter/shaders. I wouldn't expect anything beyond that, although I've heard the Dreamcast emulator may work.

[jperryss]

N64 and Ps1 should run okay, I've tried them. They are the same emus you'd get on PC, so yes they have filter/shaders. I wouldn't expect anything beyond that, although I've heard the Dreamcast emulator may work.

Then they're not perfect, and definitely not the same as running a flash cart on original hardware.

Conker's BFD is one that stands out to me as usually having issues on emulators.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I have an ouya and while satoshi is right about the comparability and superior look, it's just not the real thing to me. If if the emulation is 99.9% accurate it still feels a bit off to me, perhaps it's just the input delay, as minute as it is

input delay with the .emu series is virtually nonexistant, but if you really want to eliminate it altogether, use a wired controller or controller adapter through USB. Th .emu series supports virtually anything that is USB.

These include
NES
SNES
GB/GBC
GBA
Master System/Genesis/Sega CD/32X
C64
Atari 2600
Neo-Geo
Neo-Geo Pocket Color
MAME

All of those work exceptionally well on the Ouya. There are also other emulators for systems like PS1 and N64, but they don't work as universally flawlessly.



But how well does it run the 3D games? My N64 flash cart runs them perfectly. This change is usually where emulation falls apart.

That is true. N64 emulation on Ouya is hit and miss, but that's because the N64 emulation on Ouya is ported over from less talented emulator authors than Rob Broglia. Then again, let's be honest here - how many N64 games are really good enough to justify owning one of the EverDrive 64s? Those are among the most expensive flashcarts out there, and for what? So you can play Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64? I'm not a hater of the N64, I just think that it's unreasonable to conclude that the N64 has enough good games to justify the price of the EverDrive 64.



I asked about this elsewhere but didn't get much in the way of a response. Do the emulators on the Ouya have much in the way of filters and shaders? I like messing around with them; you need chunky sprite accuracy but sometimes it's fun to play with a super eagle filter.

Yes, you can put on filters and change aspect ratio and all that, but I never do. I want razor sharp pixels.

[Leo_A]

You think it's unreasonable that someone feels that it has more than just two worthwhile games?

[Tanooki]

I may only have 20 N64 favorites I've kept, but that's pretty ignorant saying it has just 2 games worth the price of an Everdrive 64. Drop the fanboy douche goggles and look at the bigger picture of what the general consumer thinks is solid on the N64. I could easily pick out 40-50 games of the 300 game US library totally worth having, especially as a free ROM on an everdrive. A few of them won't even run in a crappy emulator too such as Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine for one that boots on no emulators, and any others using that large cartridge memory mapper code won't either.

[Zthun]

I may only have 20 N64 favorites I've kept, but that's pretty ignorant saying it has just 2 games worth the price of an Everdrive 64. Drop the fanboy douche goggles and look at the bigger picture of what the general consumer thinks is solid on the N64. I could easily pick out 40-50 games of the 300 game US library totally worth having, especially as a free ROM on an everdrive. A few of them won't even run in a crappy emulator too such as Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine for one that boots on no emulators, and any others using that large cartridge memory mapper code won't either.

Pretty much this. The N64 had an awful controller, but it had some really good games that I do enjoy coming back to. And there's quite a few that I never played as well. I think the amount of great games on the N64 justifies the price of the Everdrive 64.

I will say that emulation has come a long way. Even Sony uses emulators for their PS1 games on the PS3, so that should tell you something there (and those play great). Still, it's hard to beat the perfection of the original hardware on a tube TV.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

You think it's unreasonable that someone feels that it has more than just two worthwhile games?

When did I say the N64 only had two worthwhile games? Just because I only mentioned two by name doesn't mean I think it only has two good games total. My point was about justifying the purchase of an EverDrive 64, not an evaluation on the N64 game library.

I have considered buying an EverDrive 64, but there are several factors that weigh heavily against it:

1. It is very expensive. $191.00 plus shipping. Yeesh.
2. I already own virtually every N64 game I would ever want to play.
3. A good deal of N64 games have poorly aged, mostly due to the questionable trident N64 controller. I just hate that thing. The alternatives are using the Hori Mini Pad (which is better but still has some issues) or a GameCube controller via an adapter. No solution works well because N64 games are all over the place with their design, sometimes using the dpad and L button, sometimes treating them like they don't exist.
4. In my opinion, there really aren't that many N64 games worth replaying. Yes, there are the Nintendo staples Mario and Zelda, but when was the last time anyone reached to play one of Rare's collect-a-thon third person action games like Banjo or Donkey Kong 64? Even the two Castlevania games on N64 were lackluster.
5. The biggest reason to buy an EverDrive 64 is for Mario 64 hacks, but most of them exceed the ROM size space capacity of the EverDrive, so they wouldn't even run to begin with.


I could easily pick out 40-50 games of the 300 game US library totally worth having

Honestly? I find that hard to believe. Your tastes must be far less selective than mine and include 6/10 games. The N64 has odd gems like Mischief Makers, but every time I buy an N64 game I think *might* be a hidden gem I end up burned with another 6/10 dud, like Chameleon Twist which I bought a couple months ago because of the Sunsoft branding.

If you wouldn't mind, could you please list those 40-50 games that are "totally worth having"?

[Leo_A]

That's basically how I interpret this as saying.


Then again, let's be honest here - how many N64 games are really good enough to justify owning one of the EverDrive 64s? Those are among the most expensive flashcarts out there, and for what? So you can play Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64? I'm not a hater of the N64, I just think that it's unreasonable to conclude that the N64 has enough good games to justify the price of the EverDrive 64.

Sure looks like you're suggesting that these two titles are basically it, with little more to offer.

Regardless, I think it's foolhardy to even make such a statement where you proclaim that it's unreasonable that anyone would think that this console, which sold over 30 million units, has enough good games to justify an accessory that can be had as low as $110 or so. For starters, it's an opinion that obviously isn't shared by everyone since it's only an opinion. A fact that you know full well to be the case (and I imagine expected to be called out on, as happened).

And for me, regardless of the 80 or so North American cartridges in my collection that an Everdrive 64 provides convenience for me to enjoy without swapping cartridges (And the high prices that much of the 1st/2nd party lineup goes for, such as Paper Mario 64), there's a lot there to justify it for me.

-Japanese imports such as the rumble enabled releases of Wave Race 64 and Super Mario 64.
-Expensive to acquire titles like Ogre Battle 64 and Worms Armageddon.
-Prototypes like Frogger (Has a fine version of the arcade original, with original music, as I recall).
-Ability to play PAL imports on a NTSC machine (F1 World Grand Prix II and F1 Racing Championship, sequels to two of my favorite N64 releases, are some of the several interesting PAL experiences available.)

These are some ways it has justified the cost for me outside of mere convenience.

[Tanooki]

Honestly? I find that hard to believe. Your tastes must be far less selective than mine and include 6/10 games. The N64 has odd gems like Mischief Makers, but every time I buy an N64 game I think *might* be a hidden gem I end up burned with another 6/10 dud, like Chameleon Twist which I bought a couple months ago because of the Sunsoft branding.

If you wouldn't mind, could you please list those 40-50 games that are "totally worth having"?

I'm actually kind of picky, and a chunk of the library is already instantly excluded too because I more or less detest 3D platformers that are painful collection games (basically all the Rare games other than Conkers) and all the sports and wrestling junk.

These are the 20 I still have -- Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Cruis'n USA, DOOM 64, F-Zero X, Goldeneye, Indiana Jones, Mario Golf, Mario Kart 64, Mega Man 64, Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon, Legend of Zelda Ocarina of TIme, Pilotwings, Ridge Racer, Star Fox, Star Soldier, Star Wars Shadow of the Empire, Super Mario 64, Super Smash Bros, Wave Race 64.

Here's some more, pretty much had all these and would again if I cared to get into the 64 (if i had access to a CRT or they did a retron5 upgrade n64 module.) Goemon's Great Adventure, Beetle Adventure Racing, Bomberman 64, Bomberman Hero, Bomberman 64 Second Attack, Blast Corps, (I hate it but people love it - Zelda Majora's Mask), Sin and Punishment (JP), Ready 2 Rumble Boxing, Gauntlet Legends, Hydro Thunder, Mario Tennis(never had it, again many adore it), Pokemon Stadium (and it's sequel I never had), Pokemon Puzzle League (aka Tetris Attack/Panel de Pon), World Driver Championship, Robotron 64, Harvest Moon 64, Body Harvest, Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, DK64(ugh, again loved), Battletanx, Bust-A-Move 2 (or 99 take your pick), Quake, Quake 2, Killer Instinct Gold, Diddy Kong Racing, Donald Duck Goin Quackers, Dr Mario 64, Extreme G 1 or 2(brother had these), Star Wars Ep1 Racer(Fun!), Jet Force Gemini, Magical Tetris Challenge, the New Tetris, Mario Party 1-3(hate it, people love it put many joysticks to death), Namco Museum (ps1 port), Nightmare Creatures, Rampage World Tour, Resident Evil 2, Space Station Silicon Valley, Star Wars Rogue Squadron, Starcraft64, Tetrisphere, Top Gear Rally, Turok 1, and Yoshi's Story.

That stuff is from memory of things I've tried, once owned, or my brother had on his system. For the record that's around 50 games and personally I'd keep at least 30 of those for myself if I wanted to collect N64 games again. I think you'd find a general consensus of N64 fans that most of those are solid games. I even left out a few decent ones that come to mind like Ogre Battle 64 and Top Gear Overdrive and another dreamcast port of Revolt. The 3 Midway DC/arcade conversions are exceptional on the hardware, kind of at the time defied what people felt it could handle without crapping out like the PS1 ports did.

[Edmond Dantes]

Eh, honestly if I were gonna even consider using an Ouya or anything else for emulation, then I would just as easily say "Why not just use this Windows PC I already have? That runs emulators."

My sole interest is rom hacks, translations, and unreleased games, so it seems like I'm better off sticking to either emulation on PC, or else the repro cart scene (since buying an actual cart ensures I'll return to a game some time and value the experience, whereas if it were just a file on a PC I'd lose interest the minute things get hard).

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I don't see how that has anything to do with it. I like physical media because a game on the shelf is more visible and screams "play me" moreso than a rom tucked away in an emulator drop down load window.

I'm not any more likely to ragequit on digital games than physical.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

(N64 games worth owning)


Thanks for posting Tanooki. I'm going to give a brief opinionated statement on each game you mentioned. Don't be offended, this is just my take on each.


Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness - Despite the crazy price this game costs I bought this upon learning it's a superior version of Castlevania [64]. It is, but only slightly. This game has a LOT of flaws and isn't nearly as fun to play as the 2D games that predated it. It's a 6/10 game. I own it, but it's not worth owning. Compared to virtually the other Castlevania games, its way on the bottom of the list.
Conker's Bad Fur Day - Yes, I agree. Worth owning. Damn Xbox version is censored for some absolutely retarded reason.
Cruis'n USA - aka, the game where head on collisions have no consequences!
DOOM 64 - Quite possibly my favorite game on N64.
F-Zero X - Yeah, okay.
Goldeneye - Unpopular opinion, but I think GoldenEye has aged TERRIBLY. I literally cannot stand to play it. It's not that it looks bad (pretty much all N64 games do), its the way the controls are set up. I consider GoldenEye and Perfect Dark and other similar games on N64 unplayable.
Indiana Jones - I have no idea. I've never played it.
Mario Golf - Camelot did some good stuff.
Mario Kart 64 - Of course
Mega Man 64 - Now WAIT JUST A MINUTE. I'm a huge Megaman fan and feel the Legends series is highly unappreciated, but Megaman 64 was a BAD port. Not only does it have the usual compression issues with the voice acting of PS1 to N64 ports, it also has considerably inferior controls and a totally WONKY camera system! Capcom SCREWED UP this port. This is NOT an N64 game worth owning. It's quite the opposite!
Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon - Poor Goemon. This game wants so much to be Zelda 64 before there was Zelda 64, and you have to really look past its flaws, but it sure has charm. I'll give it a pass on account of the awesome opening song.
Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time - Yeah, okay.
Pilotwings - I never liked Pilotwings 64. Never. It lacked the charm of the original, it lacked the music, the feeling. It was like Pilotwings in name only.
Ridge Racer - Never played it.
Star Fox - Easily one of my favorite games. So many fond memories of Star Fox 64.
Star Soldier - I suppose it's alright, but only because the N64 had so few shmups to begin with is it anything worthworthy. Had there been more, it would be totally unremarkable.
Star Wars Shadow of the Empire - Are we talking the Hoth levels or the whole game? Loved the Hoth stuff, but the third person on foot levels were all........yeessh. I suppose its not the game's fault as this was early N64, but it still doesn't hold up.
Super Mario 64 - Obligatory.
Super Smash Bros - For what reason is owning the original Smash Bros. worthwhile? Granted, I'm not a fan of this series to begin with, but every single game is the same thing, just with more stuff added. Just play Melee or Brawl or whatever the new one is called.
Wave Race 64 - I kinda feel the same way about WaveRace 64 as I do Smash. The GameCube WaveRace is this but so much better.
Goemon's Great Adventure - One of the hidden gems I've discovered on the n64.
Beetle Adventure Racing - I've heard good things about this, but never played it.
Bomberman 64, Bomberman Hero, Bomberman 64 Second Attack - Never played any of these.
Blast Corps - I never liked this game.
Zelda Majora's Mask - Again unpopulr opinion, but I quite hate Majora's Mask. I don't like timers in games. I like to play at my own pace, discover secrets and stuff without feeling I'm rushing. I don't like this in platformers and I definitely don't like this in Zelda. Thankfully this is the only Zelda game to ever pull the crap or else I would have sworn off the Zelda series years ago.
Sin and Punishment (JP) - Never played it.
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing - Never played it.
Gauntlet Legends - Never played it.
Hydro Thunder - MUCH better version on Dreamcast.
Mario Tennis - Camelot! Camelot! CAMELOT! It's only a model.
Pokemon Stadium (and it's sequel I never had) - I enjoyed these in my youth, but trying to go back to Pokemon gen 2 ruleset is rough, let alone gen 1 ruleset.
Pokemon Puzzle League (aka Tetris Attack/Panel de Pon) - Panel De Pon is always enjoyable, but I felt this game was too easy. Even on VERY HARD I was able to beat the game. I'll be the first to admit that although I love games, I am not a very good player. My Panel De Pon skills are average, maybe slightly above average. If I'm able to clear a game on VERY HARD mode, then your mode is labelled wrong.
World Driver Championship - Never played it
Robotron 64 - Yeah okay.
Harvest Moon 64 - Karen or broke.
Body Harvest - I have only vague memories, but I don't think I liked this game. Something about the controls.
Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, DK64 - I HATED these games. Collect-a-thons galore. Yuck.
Battletanx - Not sure about this one.
Bust-A-Move 2 (or 99 take your pick) - Puzzle Bobble is good yeah.
Quake, Quake 2 - These were BAD ports! Might as well have listed Hexen 64 as well!
Killer Instinct Gold - A decent Killer Instinct, but was Killer Instinct any good to begin with? That's the question.
Diddy Kong Racing - I suppose.
Donald Duck Goin Quackers Never played it.
Dr Mario 64 - Included in Nintendo Puzzle Collection for GameCube. No reason to own this.
Extreme G 1 or 2 - GameCube sequel is better.
Star Wars Ep1 Racer - Better on Dreamcast.
Jet Force Gemini - Another Rare game that I didn't care for. It felt like it wanted to be Contra or Metal Slug but failed.
Magical Tetris Challenge - ? I dont even know what this is. Magical Tetris? Huh?
The New Tetris - Aka, Tetris. It's not bad, but the term "new" is completely misleading.
Mario Party 1-3 - Aka, break your controllers, blister your hands, the series. I rented one of these back then, but never saw the appeal.
Namco Museum (ps1 port) - Whats this? Namco arcade ports like Pac-Man? Really? thats something worth owning on N64?
Nightmare Creatures - I've never even heard of this.
Rampage World Tour - MUCH better than the original Rampage. Lots of arcade fun in this game.
Resident Evil 2 - UNLIKE Megaman 64, this is Capcom totally getting how to port a PS1 game to the N64. Not only does it look better, it even manages to control just fine with the N64 controller and has some extra content too. Its a real shame the Resident Evil 2 port on GameCube wasn't an enhanced version of this rather than being an enhanced version of the PS1 original.
Space Station Silicon Valley - This game is nuts, but it has some camera and control issues that hamper the overall enjoyment.
Star Wars Rogue Squadron - I loved this game.
Starcraft64 - I remember finding the controls to be a nightmare and just stuck with the PC version.
Tetrisphere - Never liked Tetrisphere, or Wetris, or whatever other N64 Tetris wannabes there were. It was just New Tetris and Pokemon Panel De Pon for me.
Top Gear Rally - It was.....okay.
Turok 1 - aka, FOG: The game.
and Yoshi's Story - Yoshi's Story BROKE MY HEART as a kid. I loved Yoshi's Island. Even now, it's a toss up if Megaman X, Yoshi's Island or Final Fantasy 6 is my favorite SNES game ever. I was excited for more Yoshi's Island on the N64. What I got was apparently, Yoshi's Island for toddlers. The story was awful, and almost everything that I wanted from the game wasn't to be found. This is the single most disappointing game I have ever played. Not only did Yoshi's Story not live up to what I was expecting, it tarnished the Yoshi series so badly that the mere sight of the character makes me feel sad of how awful this game was.

[calgon]

While it does have its fans, I honestly don't think there are more than 5-6 n64 games I'd ever want to go back to. I think its aged even worse than psx

[jperryss]

While it does have its fans, I honestly don't think there are more than 5-6 n64 games I'd ever want to go back to. I think its aged even worse than psx

Both of these systems have aged terribly and if you didn't grow up with them, it's nearly impossible to get into them today.

[Tanooki]

Satoshi -- NOT offended, but you also did prove there was more than 2 games worth having even with you saying love it (like DOOM which wasn't on your first list.)

On a select few.
I strongly disagree on Mega Man 64 (as I had legends) and I prefer the refinement and tweaks to the areas, camera and control, plus the softer visuals. Sure the vocal audio due to compression is tinny but it's not a deal breaker.
Also don't agree on Castlevania LOD - I had CV64 it fixed all the bugs of that broken piece of shit and it's a really fun and finally complete title, the only 3D castlevania Konami made I liked.
Mystical Ninja 64 - I found i enjoyed it more than Ocarina of Time, sure it apes the style but it feels fresh and not grossly played out and stretched out for time.
Shadows of the Empire -- I think all in all it all holds up, it was smooth for its time and still passably alright now for a third person shooter outside of the cockpit stages which are excellent still.
Wave Race -- Honestly I hate the GC game as they broke the controls and made it not fun to do the jetskis due to crappy handling and the tricks were annoying. It felt more of a tech demo than WR64 did.


I won't argue the collect-a-thon platformers I hate them too, yes DK64 and the Banjo games ugh and I hate cheaty mario party games too as the AI is crap, 4 player works but still yawn. As far as the many I did list you never tried, they're a mixed bag I won't lie, but some of them really are fantastic and if anything unique. Hydro Thunder I know is better on DC but we're not discussing the Dreamcast, and as far as that generation of systems go and in general it works and looks fantastic on the N64 (try the PS1 game, then scoop eyes out with spoon -- same with R2R Boxing and Gauntlet.) Like I said I had a top20, then the rest were stuff I've experienced and I did forget stuff, such a Perfect Dark which is clearly superior to Goldeneye.


Honestly I think the N64 and PSX have aged about equally bad, but some games have aged better than others depending if you play them on a TV they're meant for as the LCD stuff makes them worse.

[Leo_A]

I won't provide my own opinions on the merits of those titles (Several of which mirror your own opinions) or add more worthwhile games to the list like Paper Mario 64, but here are a few thoughts in particular that stand out before we return to the topic at question.



Pilotwings - I never liked Pilotwings 64. Never. It lacked the charm of the original, it lacked the music, the feeling. It was like Pilotwings in name only.

I don't see that at all, but I'm particularly surprised you don't like its music. The hang glider music in particular is one of my personal favorites.

I loved the variety that was on offer here, which is the area where the original was most lacking in I thought. And I especially enjoy the hang glider stages, something that I never really felt fully in control with on the original SuperNes game.



Ridge Racer - Never played it.


You missed out since as far as I'm concerned, it's the best classic Ridge Racer.


Wave Race 64 - I kinda feel the same way about WaveRace 64 as I do Smash. The GameCube WaveRace is this but so much better.

Blue Storm is inferior in most every way to the original, in my eyes. Poor music, poor physics (Why they felt the need to deviate from Wave Race 64 here, I'll never know), little in the way of track variety, etc.

Wave Race 64 is a classic, but Wave Race Blue Storm was just one of several 1st party GCN releases that for me never managed to live up to their predecessors.




Quake, Quake 2 - These were BAD ports!

Quake 2 isn't even a port. I thought they were both well done, although it was obvious they weren't too interested with the original in going the extra mile to create what should've been a definitive console conversion of the title at the time (Unlike the Saturn developers that pushed that system as far as they could and in several ways, outperformed the N64 version).

If anything holds them back today for those that enjoy them, it's probably the lack of dual analog control. I don't have much trouble enjoying classic FPS titles on the N64 today, but that problem as always, nags at me just like when I first bought the console back in 1999.

[Tanooki]

Wow I skimmed that, I didn't see it or I would have called that out. Quake was a port and it's good if you're not so nose in the air about using a mouse and keyboard, but to call Quake 2 N64 a port is asinine, it's not, just like DOOm64 isn't DOOM 1 on N64, it's unique. It's also superior to the original Quake on 64 too and yeah I could have listed Hexen but that one really was garbage. And leo put it far better than I did with Wave Race, the GC version sucks. Ridge Racer really was a loss to you. I've played all the PS1 titles and I'd say it is the best or very well competes nicely with R4 as the cars/handling and how drift works on N64 trumps the PS titles. Admittedly I've never been huge on Pilotwings 64, I mean I like it, but I think it's the weak one of the series and yet I kept it as one of the 20 I keep around.

Oh and while I didn't go there in the other post, Yoshi's Story wasn't THE game that tarnished the series, the series itself other than the original really has been nothing but tarnish. They kept trying to either do something new that was awful (N64) or they tried to re-capture the original and just screwed it up now twice on the DS and the 3DS. They lack much fun, they're just boring and I'm not a huge fan of the original so it's not nostalgia glasses.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Sorry, that was my mistake. Not Quake II. But Quake 1, Hexen, Duke Nukem 64....they were all shotty ports.


Both of these systems have aged terribly and if you didn't grow up with them, it's nearly impossible to get into them today.

That isn't true either. I grew up with both of them and I'm sure most people reading this thread did as well. I'm turned off by a good chunk of the 3D games of that era, most of which were on the N64. The PS1 has fewer games that have poorly aged because the PS1 still had a good pile of 2D games, or games that used 3D sparingly.

[Leo_A]

the series itself other than the original really has been nothing but tarnish.

Yoshi's Island DS, while uninventive with the one innovation they tried adding bringing nothing interesting to the experience (Switchable babies that changed Yoshi's abilities), is still a fine game. They played it a bit too safe, but Yoshi's Island is so great that I was perfectly fine with more of the same even though it felt more like a level pack for the original rather than a true sequel.

Its only real problem was that it was short. I played the GBA port of the original not long before playing it, and the DS game seemed to be only about 2/3's of the length.

[jperryss]

That isn't true either. I grew up with both of them and I'm sure most people reading this thread did as well.

That doesn't dispute my original comment. :)

I said that if you did NOT grow up with them, you probably won't get into them now.

But maybe what I should've said was "this generation of 3D graphics has aged terribly".

[Greg2600]

Both of these systems have aged terribly and if you didn't grow up with them, it's nearly impossible to get into them today.

Not nearly as bad as the 32X or Jaguar for 3D games! I think PS1 fairs a lot better, first because it has 2D games a plenty, and second because of the way the graphics are generated. N64 tends to be fuzzy, foggy, and incomplete in terms of 3D models.

A big part of the fun with N64 though were multi-player games, which are obviously tougher to do now. Going back to several of them as a single player is not that fun.


1. It is very expensive. $191.00 plus shipping. Yeesh.

That's the v3, you can still get a perfectly functional v2.5 with CIC chip installed and case for $125.

Will disagree on the controller though. I always liked it! But I have pretty big hands.

[Edmond Dantes]

I gotta agree re: Wave Race 64 being better than the Gamecube sequel. WR64 was the first N64 game I owned and wound up becoming a favorite, which I can still play to this day. Blue Storm made me buy a Gamecube cuz I expected it to be just as good, and I wound up having the same problems with it that most people here had.

Good thing there's always Splashdown: Rides Gone Wild and Hydro Thunder to fill the gap.

It amuses me that a topic about the Everdrive (which I was only interested in for 16-bit and 8-bit consoles) somehow became about the worth of the Nintendo 64. It's been pretty interesting stuff all around though. I love my N64 and will never part with it even if I only own five games for it. Then again with my recent interest in racing games, which the N64 seems flush with, my library might expand considerably in the upcoming months...

Controversial statement time: Goldeneye was seriously overrated.

[goldenband]

Eh, I dunno, I didn't "grow up" with early 3D games -- I grew up with Atari, NES, and SNES, and I had pretty much lost interest in current gaming once the PlayStation and N64 came out (plus I was in college and didn't have time). But I still enjoy the games on those systems, and in many cases prefer them to more recent efforts.

Of course it's nice to play Dreamcast or GameCube and experience that huge leap forward; there are games on those systems that are beautiful, something I'd seldom say about any 3D game on the 3DO, PlayStation, Saturn, or N64. But the style, aesthetic, and type of gameplay of mid-to-late '90s gaming is more to my taste than most of what came afterward.

That said, I've gotten more motion sickness from N64 games than from all other consoles combined. Something about the way it renders graphics just...doesn't agree with me. :puke:

[Tanooki]

Goldeneye was overrated, that's not really controversial it's more of a fact. For the year it came out it was nuts and it held its own but aged horribly and perfect dark exploited its level of being overrated. Like you I also bought the GC when ti came out, went to EB Games and bought a bundle in store with Wave Race and Star Wars along with an official memory card and the system. I was in heaven thinking about when I got to play the Star Wars game earlier in the year at E3 and was blown away big time. I couldn't get at wave race, saw it at a distance and I was thinking it would be as badass with the smooth control and non-complicated button mash crap it turned out to be for stunts. Man I was let down, I played the courses just because I had no other game, but if it were out a year later or something I'd have straight up returned it since that was still allowed then. There's nothing to like about it other than the even nicer water effects as they sucked the life out of it, hell Wave Race Gameboy has more on it in fun value and it's forgotten.

I doubt I'd get rid of the N64 either, it was my college years system as I got out of high school in 95 and it was out in 96 and I did the five year plan in college so it was it, my GBC, and when the games dried up the Turbo Duo (and eventually Genesis via Nomad.) N64 got the shaft, not terribly but it did, and the games it did have were of a notable quality. They look fairly bad today, not just due to age, but because non-CRTs hate those first 3D systems big time display wise. I got my three year old here, and I'll let her have some play time with it when she's a bit older as we do have an old basically unused 20" CRT in the back room.

[Leo_A]

I'm afraid that that's the very definition of an opinion.


I gotta agree re: Wave Race 64 being better than the Gamecube sequel.

It's also a 1990's 3D console title that I feel is an example of one that has aged beautifully and would still be easy for a newcomer to appreciate today.

Those water effects still look wonderful today. And if one properly experiences it on their HDTV, it looks attractive even there (i.e., don't hook a N64 up via composite cables... for the casual fan not wanting to RGB mod his system and purchase a XRGB, the Wii download is an excellent way to have Wave Race 64 shine through even on a HDTV).

[ProjectCamaro]

Goldeneye was overrated, that's not really controversial it's more of a fact.

Negative, that is an option. I had more fun with that game than any other so it is no where near overrated to me. I went back and replayed the entire game recently including getting all the cheats and enjoyed every second of it.

[Greg2600]

Those water effects still look wonderful today. And if one properly experiences it on their HDTV, it looks attractive even there (i.e., don't hook a N64 up via composite cables... for the casual fan not wanting to RGB mod his system and purchase a XRGB, the Wii download is an excellent way to have Wave Race 64 shine through even on a HDTV).

I have done it, trust me doesn't improve it very much at all.

[Leo_A]

You have done what? RGB mod your Nintendo 64 and route it through a quality upscaler like an XRGB Mini? The jump there, especially compared to composite to the same HDTV, will be tremendous. There are high quality uploads of people doing just this on YouTube, if anyone wants to see for themselves.

And if you're talking about the Virtual Console download, I noticed a significant visual leap with the Wii just by routing it via component to my CRT, in comparison to my N64 outputting the same title via S-Video cables. And the jump with my Wii U upscaling this download to 1080p (After being rendered in 480p by the hardware, unlike half that with original hardware) to my HDTV with its awful built-in scaler is tremendous compared to original unmodified hardware.

Things will vary from display to display since there's a lot of disparity in scaler quality from one model to the next, but in general, hooking up an unmodified Nintendo 64 console, outputting this game at its original resolution, and doing so via composite cables to an HDTV is just a step or two away from guaranteeing a horrible looking picture.

If anyone experiences it that way for the first time, it's definitively going to be an uphill battle to ever appreciate and enjoy a game such as this one.

[Greg2600]

You have done what? RGB mod your Nintendo 64 and route it through a quality upscaler like an XRGB Mini? The jump there, especially compared to composite to the same HDTV, will be tremendous. There are high quality uploads of people doing just this on YouTube, if anyone wants to see for themselves.

Correct, my N64 is RGB, and I don't use the XRGB but a comparable professional HDMI upscaler instead. Now, compared to S-Video (through the scaler - my LCDTV has no port), it's an improvement but it's not as much as say Gamecube S-Video vs. Component either. It's like if you played it on an emulator on PC, which is fantastic. I'm glad I had it done, and it was cheap, but there are no additional graphical improvements that Project64 could provide. I think that the 3d models look great, but the backgrounds and textures look terrible.

[Leo_A]

I suspect that your upscaler handles 240p S-Video exceptionally well.

Something like the XRGB Mini doesn't seem to get along nearly as well with the N64's S-Video output. What goes from a spectacular result with the RGB mod to the same scaler (Which looks almost like emulator quality), ends up as merely acceptable via S-Video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cdd7lgcA_I

Regardless, unfortunately for most folks that just hook it up directly to their HDTV like they would've done back in the late 1990's, the results will rarely be anywhere close to satisfactory with the stock video output options.

[Greg2600]

I suspect that your upscaler handles 240p S-Video exceptionally well.

Something like the XRGB Mini doesn't seem to get along nearly as well with the N64's S-Video output. What goes from a spectacular result with the RGB mod to the same scaler (Which looks almost like emulator quality), ends up as merely acceptable via S-Video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cdd7lgcA_I

Regardless, unfortunately for most folks that just hook it up directly to their HDTV like they would've done back in the late 1990's, the results will rarely be anywhere close to satisfactory with the stock video output options.

I have a DVDO iScan VP50, which handles all 240p really well, on one of the presets, which is why I bought it. XRGB settings are highly customizable, which I don't have the time or patience for.