YouTubers respond to Nintendo's "Creator Program"

[YoshiM]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/01/youtube_stars_arent_happy_with_nintendos_revenue-sharing_creators_program

There's a lot of discussion going on at that site on that topic. A lot of people are stating that "Let's Play" videos, PewDiPie's content and what not constitute as "free advertising" and that Nintendo should just accept it and not try to take a piece of the pie.

To me, it's a murky area-what constitutes "advertising"? Traditionally it promotes the product, making it desirable, fun, etc. However these videos don't really advertise in the classic sense as LP's pretty much show you the whole game, so if it's story based the goods are given and one of the reasons to buy the game is now taken away as you know how it ends. Another point is that not every video really promotes the game but can outright bash it. How does saying a game or even a portion of a game isn't all that grand promoting? Spin off of that would be how foul-mouthed is the host of the video? Does any company want some potty mouth touting their game uncontrolled?

What are your thoughts?

[Greg2600]

Let's Play is no longer fair use I guess, since the videos are so long.

[Leo_A]

What's a PewDiPie?

[YoshiM]

What's a PewDiPie?

He's the biggest (as in #1) YouTuber on, uh, YouTube. Dude makes millions due to his subscriber base. He basically plays games, you watch him and he comments, screams, etc.

[Leo_A]

lol

From the sounds of it, good riddance. I'm glad that he won't be covering Nintendo products, assuming that's the stance he decides to take.

[kai123]

I don't enjoy any of them and they are not creating anything. They are using someone else's assets and acting like asses the entire time. Over privileged YouTube creators piss me off. They hardly ever have information about what they are "reviewing". It blows my mind that people want to watch someone else play games that badly. Thankfully there are people on Youtube who are passionate about the games and don't rely on gimmicks to get you the information you may be looking for. I guess since I am not a kid and can afford to buy the games I want it isn't that appealing to me.

[Tanooki]

They're moochers and CryCry(Please)Die is the worst of them whining like that. I'm sorry but you're not making content when you ape entire games or large parts of them just to throw that crap online other people made to collect a paycheck. He should be happy Nintendo is willing to take a 1/3 or so cut instead of sending him a C&D letter instead because he is just infringing on their stuff, especially him or anyone doing full or large parts of game runs of stuff that are actively sold on the Virtual Console or what not. By showing off the game while it could inspire some to play, it will also inspire some to go -- wow I'm good, and not buy.

[ZeroCool]

Whatever happened to playing games for the fun of it? Where would these people be without getting paid from Youtube?

[kai123]

Whatever happened to playing games for the fun of it? Where would these people be without getting paid from Youtube?

Nope it is all about paychecks for something you didn't even create in the first place. They keep saying it is free advertising but considering EA pays some youtubers to review their products it isn't really free now is it? I also have adblock on all the time. I don't care who you are on Youtube I am not watching ads because you bought a capture card and a webcam.

Games are not about having fun. You can't even play some games without being constantly bombarded if you are online with friends signing in and games reminding you that you can buy the season pass. The immersion is lost on a lot of games because of habits like that. Movies at least don't pop up in the middle and start yapping about buying the t-shirt and the DVD...sometimes haha

[Emperor Megas]

I honestly don't get the appeal of PewDiPie, or whatever his handle is. I'm not a hater, I'm glad he's making a living doing what he does, but I really just don't get it at all.

[Gameguy]

Nope it is all about paychecks for something you didn't even create in the first place.
Just like with Mystery Science Theater 3000 only with video games instead of movies. The trick is to only use content that's in the public domain.


I'm still a bit surprised that people are paid for posting their videos on Youtube, I remember years ago when you got nothing at all for posting videos there. People actually posted content there because they just enjoyed sharing their content and getting attention for it, just having a place that would host your videos for free regardless of bandwidth used was exciting.

That's when Revver and then Blip became popular as they started the whole concept of the poster being paid for their content. Then Revver shut down because nobody bothered going there and Blip changed their policies for posting content forcing everyone normal to switch back to Youtube, including all the people who previously said they were leaving Youtube and never coming back.

[kupomogli]

Whatever happened to playing games for the fun of it? Where would these people be without getting paid from Youtube?

I make Youtube videos but I do it to show off games I like. Sure I'd like to make money, but I don't go out of my way to do so. Most of the games I make videos for are older and aren't very popular to a large audience.

Playthroughs of Vanguard Bandits, Suikoden, Brigandine, Lords of Shadow 2, and Dracula X Chronicles, then part of a playthrough of Mega Man 3 with no special weapons up to the Dark Robot Masters(since I can't beat (all of) them without special weapons and/or energy tanks. Also a few videos of various different things on Yakuza 3, Yakuza 4, Driver '76, Mobile Suit Gundam Encounters in Space, Ehrgeiz, and DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3.

[kai123]

Just like with Mystery Science Theater 3000 only with video games instead of movies. The trick is to only use content that's in the public domain.


Exactly and they went off and made Rifftrax which is just the audio of them talking and you turn that on while the movie is playing. So now they have so many modern movies covered it is pretty awesome. So I don't see how people on Youtube think their way is ok but the guys at Rifftrax can't do the same thing. I mean they are talking over it so that means they have all rights to that movie. haha

[Tanooki]

Rifftrax is excellent and a good way to handle that type of stuff. Ever try them out in the actual movies? A few years back I got a free ticket to see Plan 9 From Outer Space broadcast live from TN and it was a riot considering how awful that movie was.

[retroguy]

I've been posting stuff to youtube for a little over a year and as a rule, I don't monetize my channel even though most of what's there is my own original content purely because on the occasions I use preexisting music or footage, I don't want to be accused of making money off of someone else's hard work. I have had third party ads placed on a couple of my videos (like my review of the new Annie remake that used footage from the trailers), but I'm fine with that because I figure it's the equivalent of paying a licensing fee in lieu of actual payment.

[Gameguy]

Exactly and they went off and made Rifftrax which is just the audio of them talking and you turn that on while the movie is playing. So now they have so many modern movies covered it is pretty awesome. So I don't see how people on Youtube think their way is ok but the guys at Rifftrax can't do the same thing. I mean they are talking over it so that means they have all rights to that movie. haha


Rifftrax is excellent and a good way to handle that type of stuff. Ever try them out in the actual movies? A few years back I got a free ticket to see Plan 9 From Outer Space broadcast live from TN and it was a riot considering how awful that movie was.
The thing is it's easy to make an audio track for a movie that you can sync up yourself, it's pretty much impossible to do the same for a video game as it can vary depending on how you play it. The only way is to really have it uploaded with the video of the game being played by the creator of the audio track.

The difference is that games are supposed to be an interactive medium, watching someone else play a game isn't supposed to be good enough as playing it yourself. Just imagine if you watched someone else play Space Invaders or Pong in an arcade and thought, "well, now I don't need to play it as I saw someone else play it."

The main reason I mentioned Mystery Science Theater 3000 which includes Rifftrax was to make a point of people complaining about others making a profit using other peoples' work while adding very little to it. They've been doing it for over 20+ years, long before posting videos on the internet was even a thing. The Youtube people can make a profit with it, but they can't just use whatever footage they want. Not unless they just use Freeware games, essentially what's in the public domain. Or just make videos but without monetizing them, just for fun.

For fans of Rifftrax try looking into Wizard People, Dear Reader by Brad Neely. It's a complete commentary track/narration that syncs up with the first Harry Potter film. The narration is pretty great, including renaming various characters like Hagrid to Haggar the Horrible. It's read like a book on tape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjYPfOnuf9w&index=1&list=PLKZ4nXu_u5CQS3_brOmXa-O9B8599NhiQ

[kai123]

Yea, how did I survive all those years reading reviews instead of watching them. They can do something different but they choose not to. Using something that is in the public domain or getting the rights to use something is completely different to what they are doing. They have a capture card and then write an "angry", "silly", or just plain stupid review of the game.

Eh, I have a few youtubers that I follow but they are usually a little older and have a calm attitude towards what they are doing. I don't mind energetic people, I just don't like spongebob reviewing games. I have said this before but if they go away someone else will replace them.

I think it just shows how insecure most youtubers really are. They know that it won't last forever.

[Gameguy]

It's not the review videos that they're really talking about, it's the Let's Play videos. Basically people just record themselves while playing various games, while talking about random stuff or making random wisecracks about the game. You can review anything under fair use laws, making jokes while playing through an entire game isn't a review. They're not even instructional videos or walkthroughs by nature.

[kai123]

It's not the review videos that they're really talking about, it's the Let's Play videos. Basically people just record themselves while playing various games, while talking about random stuff or making random wisecracks about the game. You can review anything under fair use laws, making jokes while playing through an entire game isn't a review. They're not even instructional videos or walkthroughs by nature.

The way I understood it was that the content id filter just tagged anything it recognized regardless of length.

[Gentlegamer]

While part of me thinks it's absurd that people can make hundreds of thousands of dollars just posting videos of themselves playing games, without even editing, I also recognize that intellectual property is a legal fiction, one that exists to ensure a steady flow of things into the public domain. This will never happen, but I want the laws and courts to start restricting the overzealous protection of "intellectual property." It is said that the laws need to reflect the times, well this is a great example where they are largely archaic, in my opinion. Uploading video of playing a game is not uploading the game code that allows someone else to play the game, you aren't distributing copyrighted material in that fashion.

[kupomogli]

Youtube actually shows what's wrong with society in general. In the real world, popularity can net someone a great job, promotion, etc, regardless if the person is qualified or not, and you see the same thing happening everyday on Youtube. Talentless people like Pewdie Pie are making millions just because they throw videos online of them playing a video game while there are some people who are more knowledgeable about the industry and broadening peoples horizons showing off great niche games, etc, and yeah some of them may be popular, but it's really only to the niche fanbase and these people are probably not really pulling in all that much.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

What gets me is even if I wanted to accept this and move on, I can't. In the application process under country, you can select either United States or Japan. Apparently the rest of the world doesn't exist to Nintendo.

[PizzaKat]

I read online that pewdiepie makes 4 million a year..I know he makes at least a million a year. Hes complaining really? What a dick.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

His is the voice that carries the most weight. If I complained, Nintendo wouldn't have any cause to care at all. But he's popular enough when he does things like turns off the comments section of his views, other websites pick it up as a news topic of the same caliber as a new game announcement by a major developer.

I agree the Nintendo policy system is bullshit, especially since it doesn't apply globally. Right now, as a Canadian, I have two choices with reviews of Nintendo games:

1. Make them, and receive 0% of any ad revenue whatsoever I would normally earn for producing my own goddamn content.
2. Don't make them and pretend Nintendo games don't exist.

Both are terrible and even this stranglehold policy of Nintendo's is better than the alternatives. But c'mon Nintendo. get your shit together. The world is more than just the US and Japan.

[Edmond Dantes]

What gets me is even if I wanted to accept this and move on, I can't. In the application process under country, you can select either United States or Japan. Apparently the rest of the world doesn't exist to Nintendo.

Considering that's basically how Japan's corporate culture views the world, yeah. I recall reading horror stories of English teachers being told to speak "more American-like" or "with an American accent" because in their mind, English = America (never mind where the language gets its name from).

Japan is bipolar. Half the time they're freaking glorious pillars of the way things should be. The other time they're like a child that never grew up and has mental problems besides. Which one it is tends to depend on how much money is involved.

.....

But with regards to this situation, I would honestly suggest "Just ignore Nintendo products and pretend they don't exist." Yes, it sucks--especially when I was planning to do videos about how the Zelda franchise is overrated (and no, I don't hold out hope that Zippcast--my preferred Youtube alternative--will somehow remain free from the tyranny). But there's still plenty of games to talk about. Or you could do "all talk, no footage" videos. Either way, it's better than doing it at risk of potential headaches down the road.

Also totally seconding all the comments about how youtube celebs suck and so many false critics who have no qualifications yet get wildly praised (though I was thinking more of Nostalgia Chick and anyone involved with TGWTG myself, but yeah). So many mouths full of shit. Just because speech is free doesn't mean it should be widespread.

[leatherrebel5150]

Exactly and they went off and made Rifftrax which is just the audio of them talking and you turn that on while the movie is playing. So now they have so many modern movies covered it is pretty awesome. So I don't see how people on Youtube think their way is ok but the guys at Rifftrax can't do the same thing. I mean they are talking over it so that means they have all rights to that movie. haha

Holy Crap I didn't know they went off and did that. I loved MST3K this is awesome!

[Tanooki]

The more you know! *

:D

Rifftrax really hit it right on that because they don't have any legal problems being just an overlay of audio one can sync to a movie as they run a bluray or dvd. You get all the insults and cheese, perhaps worse than on MST3K since they don't need permissions and the rest. They can just go off with their comedy and the movie itself is untainted to the studio as it's not attached.

Perhaps that's how these frauds on youtube need to be dealt with. If they want to collect a paycheck, do an audio recording and tell people to sync up the game and go for it. Not as easy as a movie since they (audio guys) maybe be good at the game and the player blows, or just never touched it before, but at least it would be on the level.

[kai123]

I think the problem is that since anyone can upload to youtube (which is great) has seemed to make people think they are somehow journalists or have to be taken extremely serious. Some Youtube channels do have better production values than others and it shows. Nobody owes Youtubers anything at all. It isn't my fault you can't make money off of videos. Do something different than everyone else. Or you know get a normal job and keep making videos until you hit the big time. I don't care about your finances sorry.

I think it would be really sad if the thing that takes Nintendo down is over privileged Youtubers. How crazy would that be?

[retroguy]

For what it's worth, one youtuber I follow because I think he's doing it right is Replay Retro. No constantly begging for subscriptions, no putting excessive ads on his videos, no trying too hard to be funny and failing, no nothing. Just a simple, straightforward, show with semi-professional production values that covers the history of video games by examining each console's strengths and weaknesses in detail. Rarely dull and always informative.

Chris Bucci's Turbo Views is another good one.

[Emperor Megas]

Chris Bucci's Turbo Views is another good one.Turbo Views is my favorite game review show, bar none. Chris Bucci has a really great screen personality. He's also very genuine and his videos are always G-rated.

[Nophix]

Say what you guys want about Youtubers, but there are some good ones, and there seems to be a lot of jealousy against guys who have figured out how to make a living doing what they love.

I honestly can't figure out what the publishers have against these guys. It's essentially free advertising. People buy the games simply because "xyzzy" dude on YouTube played it.

I have a few I watch. I don't see them as any different than some of the old game shows on TV, or the podcasts from major publishers. I'm not really a Pewdeepie fan, but he has an audience, and apparently people like him.

To each his own, I guess. If you don't like it, don't watch it. That's the great thing about the Internet.

[kai123]

To each his own, I guess. If you don't like it, don't watch it. That's the great thing about the Internet.

We don't watch it. There is no jealousy here I am not interested in screaming and acting like a "bro" all the time. I am interested in the games. When someone is constantly begging for subs and feels so entitled to something that they don't own they licensed it from the company. Why is that so hard for Youtubers to understand? They don't own any of it. It isn't their's and they have the rights that are spelled out in the EULA. It has been this way since forever.

Why do Youtubers act like there weren't artist, musicians, engineers and everyone else that goes into making that game? They don't have to worry about any over head or development costs they sit on their ass for who knows how long and capture the footage. Most of them are not even critiquing the game at all. They just have stupid over reactions to the game.

Why do you think Siskel and Ebert were so popular? They spoke about the movies they reviewed from a technical and artistic level. They didn't jump around like an ass and say "Where's my check?" to the audience. They had to get the footage from the distributor and that distributor would tell them what they could and couldn't show. I don't want to watch people begging for subs and donations. They are just bums with video cameras.

They are a marketing department not reviewers. The only problem is nobody at the companies asked them to be in their marketing department.

[Tanooki]

Well said kai. It's a shame those dunces and the people who defend them fail to grasp that simple bit of knowledge right there. They don't provide any value, definitely not one the owners of the property they're pilfering asked them for the assist either. Play by the rules or walk. I look at what they do much like people who take a DVR into a movie and quietly record it and throw it up on online services the next morning. It's a rebroadcast at an amateur level of something they're not entitled to.

[Nophix]

I really think you guys are watching the wrong guys. Granted some people like the Pewdeepue type stuff, but there are far better out there.

The Completionist
Happy Console Gamer
The Gaming Historian
Easter Egg Hunter
Retroliberty
The Game Chasers

That's just a few. Don't assume that just because it's in YouTube, it's always Brozilla yelling at a mic.

[kai123]

Oh I agree there are some very good youtube channels that I watch all the time. It is really the very large ones that are constantly whining about how unfair the companies are to them. They constantly hound for subs and donations or patreon. It gets old.

[Daria]

I don't have an issue with people getting paid to provide entertainment. If they're boring I don't watch.

There's only two reasons to watch a "Let's Play" 1. As a video walkthrough. and 2. For the "personality" playing the game.

In neither scenario am I watching the game in substitution of playing it. The person playing the game is providing a service to help me when I get stuck, just like a walkthough writer did in years past. The latter guy was free to receive ad revenue from his website, so I don't see why is the video walkthough guy is fundamentally different. And for the "personality" type, well I'm not watching the video for the game, the game's just a prop for the comedian at that point.

edit: That's a lie. I'll also watch a "Let's Play" to see if it's a game I want to buy. Maybe that's why the bug guns are so unhappy with YouTube recordings, demo's and trailers are calculated to appeal to targeted consumers. Let's Plays reveal too much that's totally out of their control. Even professional reviewers can be "paid off."

[LaughingMAN.S9]

Why is it so hard for some of you to at least acknowledge that the main reason cornballs like pewdiepie have millions of subscribers logging on to watch his lets plays isn't because of the game he's playing but because of his personality and his brand of humor? The game is just a vehicle for his jokes or whatever he does, the game is almost irrelevant most of the time.

My favorite youtube game personality is Marc from classic game room, I've watched him talk about games I knew in my heart I would never play or out right hated because I find his style of review funny. It really is that simple, I like his production values and his stupid jokes but half the time I couldn't care less about the game. I and other people watch for his personality.

I don't watch any lets plays because...why the fuck would i??? Outside of me getting stuck in a game and a faq being unclear, I'm not about to clear my schedule and watch some dude tell jokes while he plays a game for 4 hours straight but I recognize their contribution to the lets play and dont judge others for Finding entertainment from them. A lot of youtube personalities put a lot of time and effort into their channel and its reflected in the production quality. They deserve to get paid for what they do.

If all youtube personalities provided nothing to the content you all claim they steal and profit from then it wouldn't explain how someone like pewdiepie can amass such a large following while another youtuber doing the same exact thing struggles to crack 100 views. People watch for the individual playing the game, not necessarily the game.

I personally have no problem with game publishers and developers taking a certain percentage from youtube channels ONLY on lets plays and not other things like reviews or previews since those I feel fall more in line with the spirit of fair use. But nintendo is overreaching with their request. The slice they take seems excessive when you factor in how many times the pie gets sliced before even nintendo gets their cut and then the little that's left over all filters back finally to the youtuber. Then they have the audacity to demand your channel be solely a nintendo channel, your reviews have to be preapproved and you can only show games from yet another small pre-approved list of nintendo games all for a tiny payday you recieve after like 3 months. At this point you're a nintendo employee basically, who could trust your reviews? why would you bother?

Nintendo is out of touch, they're a japanese company run by old men who still think this is the 80s and they're the only game in town. This won't be nintendos downfall, they don't need any help in That department at the rate they're going, but stupid shit like this makes it easy to see why they're in the position they're in right now. I honestly find it hard to believe how many of you are defending this bullshit

[Niku-Sama]

30-40% is just ridiculous though. considering if they took into account that the game does not play it self on top of the game had to be purchased to begin with they shouldn't really be taking any sort of money. the games don't play them selves and with out these "content creators" they would probably be worse off than they are already.

oh and while we are on the topic of Nintendo.
think of some better fucking names for your consoles. New 3DS? really? thanks for confusing most of the population of the world ass holes, makes my like ultimately that much harder getting people what they are after

I like Nintendo and all but.....shit really?

[Nophix]

Oh I agree there are some very good youtube channels that I watch all the time. It is really the very large ones that are constantly whining about how unfair the companies are to them. They constantly hound for subs and donations or patreon. It gets old.

I take it you don't watch regular TV. I'd rather hear the guys doing good work trying to promote themselves than have ad after ad for crap I don't want shoved down my throat.

Is it really any different? In order to produce content, it takes time and money. The better quality channels can become a full time job.

[Nophix]

One more thing to add. Has anyone watched the old Mystery Science Theater 3000?

I seem to remember that being extremely popular, and all it was is a couple guys making silly commentary over movies.

[Leo_A]

Considering it has been brought up on the first page and commented on, I suspect so.

[retroguy]

Even though many of them are long enough that I don't actually finish watching, I like to watch lets plays of open-world games like Fallout New Vegas or Elder Scrolls because there are so many different ways you can go through those plus an element of randomness to what weapons you get, when enemies ambush you, etc. that I find it interesting to see how different people deal with what the game throws at you.

I also like to watch blind lets plays of games that are super hard or have a lot of hidden stuff you have to find because I find it interesting to see how long it takes them to figure stuff out.

That said, Whether I'll watch a lets play depends on how many ads it has. 1-2 ads on a 20 minute video is fine because that's normal these days. Five ads on a 20 minute video? No. I'll keep looking and find an LP that's not completely covered up, thanks.

[Tanooki]

One more thing to add. Has anyone watched the old Mystery Science Theater 3000?

I seem to remember that being extremely popular, and all it was is a couple guys making silly commentary over movies.

Yes and they also had permission to do that and would have to pay a fee to get those movies to trash them on tv and I'd imagine another fee/percentage for all the DVD and other re-distribution rights. The youtube mooches want to contribute nothing for what they're poaching for their jokes and time wasting.

As far as ads in any of these go, I tweak the hell out of adblock so I don't see them anyway. :)

[kai123]

I have a DVR so I don't watch a ton of commercials. I think it is funny how some people love to watch the Super Bowl just for the ads. I hate being sold crap all the time. Some of these videos are only a few minutes long at most and they begin with asking for subs or donations and end on the same tone. It just gets old and makes me not want to watch them. It would be like buying a car and the navigation system keeps reminding you to buy that car. If I am watching your videos I am already interested and does it really work? How many people on here heard a Youtuber ask you to subscribe and you mindless clicked subscribe? Maybe that is how it works and that is how some of these guys got to be as big as they are. IDK.

Of course I know it is their personality. I just don't like the entitled attitude of it all. I made a video I deserve to get paid. No you don't deserve anything. Yes production is expensive it doesn't mean I have to do anything to help them out with their finances. I don't personally care if they make money off of what they do. There are millions of people who don't make money off of what they produce. Why should I care? They took the risk sorry it didn't work out. Maybe the Youtubers need a bailout. Too big to fail by Pewdiepie.

I have an extension on chrome called "video blocker" and you can right click any video and it will block all videos from that channel showing up on your youtube homepage or suggestions. It is pretty awesome and has made youtube a little cleaner for me.

[Tanooki]

Oooh nice one, video blocker. I wonder if that's on firefox too?

I'll say this much you're probably right about the subscription thing that it's probably more direct subliminal begging that gets it done more than general interest, or people feeling they 'consumed' their work so they'll throw them a bone. I for one see a video begging me for a sub, I turn it off, not happening as I don't like that at all. Like you when it comes to TV most the stuff I watch I DVR and save for like when my lunch break is the next day and do it then. Today at lunch I've got a few choices as I forgot to watch stuff for a day or two, and every time a commercial pops up I zip through them in about 5 seconds. If it's live TV, I usually will keep my tablet handy and not watch the dumb ads or if I don't I flip the channel. There's so much forced advertising these days I do now mind commercials and actively avoid them and it's why I also run adblock on computer as it's all overkill. I'm sorry but if you can't make a product that can't sell itself on label and good rep, fuck off. I don't need some annoying sounds, visuals or TV spots harassing me about it.

[The 1 2 P]

oh and while we are on the topic of Nintendo.
think of some better fucking names for your consoles. New 3DS? really? thanks for confusing most of the population of the world ass holes, makes my like ultimately that much harder getting people what they are after

I like Nintendo and all but.....shit really?

Just wait until they come out with "The New Nintendo 2DS" and "The Newer Nintendo 3DS".