Downfall of the Vita, could retailers be at fault?

[Nophix]

I've been eyeballing a PS Vita since they were released. I love my PSP, and it seemed a worthy step up.

What I noticed though, is it was quick to be shoved aside by retailers. Even the PSP for more attention. Here we are a couple years later and they're basically relegated to end cap displays in the back of stores.

I did buy one, and I'm totally in love with the system. But, it seems like game availability outside of the PSN store is pathetic right now. Add to that the rediculous cost of memory cards for the thing and you can forget the PSN store.

What happened? There are fantastic games for this thing, and it's a rocking little machine. I honestly prefer it over my 3DS.

Did retailers do the Vita wrong and kill it early? Or is there more nefarious deeds at work?

[kupomogli]

If you own a PS3 there's really little to no reason to enjoy the Vita. There's less than 30 exclusives on the Vita in the west that also isn't on the PS3. It's partially third party publishers fault that didn't release games to the Vita, when they did, there's quite a few Japanese releases that were retail now digital only in the west, so that only helps people who already own a Vita and often frequent the PS store or gaming websites.

Sony could have made offers with publishers to localize more games instead of all their shoddy HD ports. Jak and Daxter and God of War were PS2 games, but the games can't even run at a stable framerate on the Vita. Borderlands 2 is an unplayable Vita port which Sony paid to get the rights to port to the PSP. But why? Instead of porting these games over to the PSP couldn't they have just paid for the rights to localize some Japanese games that people were really interested in playing? I mean Phantasy Star Nova, Trails in the Flash, etc. With as many RPGs and action RPGs on the Vita that are stuck in Japan, instead of pushing out shitty ports of games that people have played atleast once and didn't want again, they could have made the Vita viewed similar to the PSP, an RPG or Japanese centric handheld. It would have atleast had some sort of following. Now the Vita is nothing more than a Japanese centric handheld with no games. I own two Vitas and honestly, I think the system is a pos. The 3DS has a wider variety of exclusives that I can't already played on my PS3.

[Tanooki]

Retailers weren't to blame, it was 100% Sony.

Sony went into it like they did kind of with the PSP, arrogant and full of themselves on how it was the best thing on the market and that because it's a PlayStation/Sony branded device that the game makers would just rush to it and make great stuff and blow the 3DS out of the water (just as they acted like the DS would get dunked.) Instead you ended up getting a slow trickle of games, and plenty enough Playstation ports it didn't help things. I had the Vita, at times I wish I still did, but when I look and see how many converted console games, especially third person(assassin creed) and first person (cod/resistance) type games that doubt fades a lot. The system was done in by Sony alone, not the developers, they didn't take the sit back and see if it sells snub angle that the WiiU ended up deserving. They just weren't brought really to the table and asked to do much, it was more like, here's a kit, we're Sony so if you want to make more Sony games have at it. You need to incentivize and give people a reason or you won't get much out of it. The system still could even turn around and do great, it just needs more content and not ported content, or even if it was, upgrade it nicely so it stands out. It also couldn't hurt if they made the PS TV non-crippled keeping some of the best unique Vita titles off it, because if they can sell more games you sell more units because you can't take PS TV in your pocket like you can a Vita.

[Flojomojo]

Speaking only for myself, I could not care less about retail availability of stuff like this and have trouble understanding how it's an issue, especially among people who have access to the Internet.

I hardly ever visit places like GameStop since everything is available instantly online at the same price. I dabbled with physical media on the Vita at first, when there were a few 3GB games and no memory cards larger than 3GB, but with PS+ freebies and the whole PSP back catalogue, it soon felt like a big hassle to swap cards when there's so much to download.

I love all the goofy little indie games on the Vita. I'd buy it again even if the only games available were Nidhogg and TXK.

[Tanooki]

Well I could argue you're not the target of this discussion then because you don't care if you actually own what you pay for. By giving up on the cards, you give up the right to own your game as you're just renting it until they decide to pull it for whatever reason (loss of license, decide to pull it, network comes to be replaced, etc.) I know it's not the popular thing these days due to the brainwashed masses on phones and tablets, but some do like to control what they sink $5 or $50 into to use. If you wish to have a Vita and a game, then use that game a decade later, the card is still there, but that download, probably not.

[kupomogli]

Oh, and don't forget the cost of those proprietary devices. Got a 4GB? It'll be full after a game or three. One kajillion billion dollars for a reasonable sized card, thank you. Keeping your products overpriced is one of the reasons you're having to sell off many portions of your business Sony. If only your cards were cheaper people might have been more inclined to purchase a Vita sooner, or if they bought a larger card they might put more money into digital copies rather than buy a whole bunch of games they can't fit on their 4GB all at once.

*edit*

Also, this really goes along with what Tanooki said. Sony is arrogant. It's my favorite console manufacturer because of the amount of quality games the past three generations, but the one thing I hate about the company is how complacent their leaders are. The entire business is run so poorly, it's like they don't even care if their products succeed or not.

[The Adventurer]

If you own a PS3 there's really little to no reason to enjoy the Vita.

If you like JRPGs, or their varients, there are PLENTY of reasons to own a Vita.



Ultimately though the Vita's struggles are primarily due to its high developments costs, due to its touted graphic capabilities. Its hard for developers and publishers to make profits on $30 portable titles that need home console development dollars.

[kupomogli]

If you like JRPGs, or their varients, there are PLENTY of reasons to own a Vita.

You must be right, I mean being a Sony fanboy and all I've only had the Vita since day one. Maybe you can name some exclusives for me, and I'll even help you out. I'll help you out.

Demon Gaze, garbage. If you own a DS or 3DS, do yourself a favor and check out the far superior Etrian Odyssey series.
Mind Zero
Sorcery Saga, garbage. I've never played a bad rogue like, infact I didn't think it was possible to create a bad game in this genre, but Compile Heart has proven me wrong with the very first rogue like I've played that was complete garbage.
Sword Art Online
Ys Memories of Celceta. The worst 3D game in the series, but this game is still pretty good.

And done. A whole five RPGs definitely shows what an amazing console the Vita is to an JRPG fan.

What's that? The Vita can play PSP games, even though it's missing around 30% of the games I own and I have to repurchase them digitally? It can play PSX games that again, I have to repurchase, or I can just use the disc to play on my PS3. Genius, why didn't I think of that. Of course I can just buy all the games I own all over again so I can play them on the Vita. Although to be fair, yes I do play PSP games on my Vita. The reason I own a second Vita though is because I have it exploited and use it to play any and all PSP games I own. No idea why seeing as I have a perfectly capable PSP2000, PSP3000, and PSP Go which all have CFW to play any game on the system I want. I guess it's dat OLED.

[Tokimemofan]

You must be right, I mean being a Sony fanboy and all I've only had the Vita since day one. Maybe you can name some exclusives for me, and I'll even help you out. I'll help you out.

Demon Gaze, garbage. If you own a DS or 3DS, do yourself a favor and check out the far superior Etrian Odyssey series.
Mind Zero
Sorcery Saga, garbage. I've never played a bad rogue like, infact I didn't think it was possible to create a bad game in this genre, but Compile Heart has proven me wrong with the very first rogue like I've played that was complete garbage.
Sword Art Online
Ys Memories of Celceta. The worst 3D game in the series, but this game is still pretty good.

And done. A whole five RPGs definitely shows what an amazing console the Vita is to an JRPG fan.

What's that? The Vita can play PSP games, even though it's missing around 30% of the games I own and I have to repurchase them digitally? It can play PSX games that again, I have to repurchase, or I can just use the disc to play on my PS3. Genius, why didn't I think of that. Of course I can just buy all the games I own all over again so I can play them on the Vita. Although to be fair, yes I do play PSP games on my Vita. The reason I own a second Vita though is because I have it exploited and use it to play any and all PSP games I own. No idea why seeing as I have a perfectly capable PSP2000, PSP3000, and PSP Go which all have CFW to play any game on the system I want. I guess it's dat OLED.

You missed at least 1 Tales of Hearts R, still the selection is a joke compared with the PSP.

[kai123]

The Vita is doing bad because there hasn't been a real hack for it yet. I have plenty of Vita games and have enjoyed the system so far. Most of the people that had a PSP didn't even buy games for it in the first place.

[PapaStu]

A general lack of games that have wide appeal and stuff that trickles out slower than stuff for the 3DS means retailers are and do see little in the sales department, just like the PSP! Stores would rather have the PS4 stuff be in it's place.

Basically at this point it's like NIS and a few other smaller 3rd parties pushing out translated SRPGs for the system.

[Tanooki]

That arrogance I spoke of I wasn't even thinking at the time of their bs with the US office in particular going back to the PSP Go. No waivers for already purchased games when they dropped the UMD drive. Yeah that'll move hardware reselling people at full price games they already own on the shelf. Dumb. And that rolled right into the PSP mishandling on the Vita too. No I know they couldn't add a UMD drive, but the pricing is stupid. Nintendo doesn't go nuts on their back library of games. Look what they charge for DS/GBA games on the WiiU or 3DS, or the older cart games...$5-10. The Vita is in a corner and somewhat ignored because of sony, and that stupidity rolls right into the Vita which could very well run any game thrown at it, but it doesn't. If that ran the games I used to have on Vita I'd buy it in a heartbeat at full price but right now I wouldn't put more than $40-50 towards it because of the cost of the controller more or less.

[Manhattan Sports Club]

I am a fan of the PSP. Both DS and PSP were good and although the original PSP had a smaller library, it was mostly quality. I have been tempted to get a Vita but I'd rather settle for a 3DS if I had the choice. Even though the import library for Vita is larger, it consists of text-heavy games that I don't intend to import any time soon. It is sad to see it dwindling here in the States but some things can't be helped much by the current market trends. Nevermind the PS TV which was a flop.

[Dashopepper]

The Vita is doing bad because there hasn't been a real hack for it yet. I have plenty of Vita games and have enjoyed the system so far. Most of the people that had a PSP didn't even buy games for it in the first place.

Now this is some sound reasoning!

[Tupin]

There are barely any games on the Vita that would even be worth pirating. The fact that there's no hacks is because there's so little interest, because there are no games that people want.

I hear Sony in general gets thrown the "Indiestation" insult a lot, and to be honest I think it is a bit silly to have so much of your library based on indie titles.

[The Adventurer]

"The system isn't successful, because no one is stealing its games."

There has never been more sound logic.

[retroguy]

"The system isn't successful, because no one is stealing its games."

There has never been more sound logic.

Well, there have been multiple independent studies that showed people who pirate lots of stuff spend more money on legit media than people who don't, so whether it seems logical or not, there might be something to it.

[Dashopepper]

Well, there have been multiple independent studies that showed people who pirate lots of stuff spend more money on legit media than people who don't, so whether it seems logical or not, there might be something to it.

It's not about being logical, it's about being fact. Look up anywhere on the internet about the PSP and piracy and show me one article that says it was a good thing for the system.

[Tupin]

"The system isn't successful, because no one is stealing its games."

There has never been more sound logic.
I think it goes more like this:

-System is released
-No games, no one buys it yet
-Games that are system sellers come out
-Legit sales skyrocket
-Hacks for piracy become desired
-Hacks for piracy get released
-More people buy systems because you can pirate it
-More people also buy more legit games

The Vita never got to step 3.


Well, there have been multiple independent studies that showed people who pirate lots of stuff spend more money on legit media than people who don't, so whether it seems logical or not, there might be something to it.
Basically this. Pirates buying the system, even if they actually did never buy games (which they don't) is still a system being sold which makes the market for the system bigger, which makes devs support it more.

[theclaw]

They should've known JRPGs are what the core Playstation fanbase expects. An unfocused early library hurt momentum.
Modeling its hardware after PSP wasn't smart either. Poor load times and expensive memory cards was not a legacy to continue.

I would've made it easier to digitally release untranslated Japanese games too. Encourage people who'd otherwise import, to support their system's own market.

Not to mention ignoring Monster Hunter. With its demand in Japan, even funding quick and dirty 3DS ports would've sold well enough to justify.

[Tanooki]

I've seen articles talking about how piracy was good for PSP, but it tended to be sites that covered hacking and piracy release information (not the roms/isos themselves) so clearly they're tainted articles preaching to the group.

I saw plenty more from the game media picking up their own stuff or from q&a and so on from individual developers or studios on the whole and they I believe unanimously said it was a colossal disaster on the PSP. The big crowning blow if you really care to go look for it was MGS Peacewalker from Konami. Mind you maybe they inflated the numbers, but when they said that they sold like a hundred or two thousand copies of the game, but checking online tracking sites for warez downloads they saw like a million warez pickups that's when Konami said fuck this system and quit. They lost good money on that game because of all the filching and then ended up having to re-code(a bit) and re-release it on the PS3 within that MGS package to get some of the money back out of it. Stealing games surely does gets some people to buy them, I'll even admit I've done my share being uncertain on various games over the years, but a lot of people are just assholes and steal, finish, and move on. I ended up selling my PSP because after that Konami shit storm a good many games outside of the JP market got canned, and the stuff the PSP mostly received then were screwball JRPGs I didn't want.

[kupomogli]

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/comparison_chart.jpg

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/13/psp-and-ds-piracy-explained-in-pictures/

Piracy clearly helped the PSP out. /s

[Tanooki]

Goddamn, that's some nasty charting however they figured it out (Watching movie, not following that link right now to read it all.)

I did find this interesting, Peacewalker in 1 months on the market only sold 52000 copies in the US market. Total North American sales ever tracked while being sold were 440k. Look at those figures and you'll see it's a pretty hefty slice when 1/8 of your sales were stolen just in the first four weeks, and I couldn't find more posts talking about theft after that rate because that's when all the stories online went up bitching about them being robbed at Konami and complaining how the sales blew.

Also here's something from joystiq via neogaf. These totals here are from one torrent site and that's just the public stuff people don't block their IP or sharing on for downloads so it's not public. This is all that was stolen that was either recent up to a year old titles at the time and they all supposedly sold like crap at retail. Gee I wonder why if this is just ONE torrent site with the few public figures they can get from non-blocked downloads.

God of War: Chains of Olympus - 94,154
Patapon - 112,183
Ratchet & Clank - Size Matters - 197,113
Crush - 48,959
LOCO ROCO - 163,904
Wipeout Pulse - 116,965
Castlevania X Chronicles - 102,354
Metal Gear Solid - Portable Ops (Not Including Plus) - 231,054
Burnout Dominator - 269,486

PSP got its ass handed to it by crooks.

[Tupin]

What's weird is that DS piracy was just as bad but games still sold in legit ways. Why? Is it just because the system had a wide distribution of age groups while the PSP didn't?

[Tanooki]

The DS has a largely different level of quantity and style of distribution. You also have to factor in the average age group of the DS owners vs the PSP. Also the DS wasn't as easy to hack and keep hacked, you had to buy cards and junk. The PSP was pretty cut and dry having a 1K or a 2K system as the CFW wasn't terribly hard to work out and it didn't require added parts if I recall right. You just waited a few days or hours for a tweaked firmware, loaded it, and you went along your way or you just kept the old firmware around as long as some new game didn't require it.

The best titles on the system got poached so hard as well as a good many second tier titles too. If it wasn't for all the pussies putting that into the grave with stealing I'd have kept it for good or at least years longer as it was a fantastic handheld.

[Dashopepper]

I was listening to Retronaughts podcast the other day on the DS and they said that Nintendo moved away from the DS quicker then they would have wanted to do to piracy becoming more prevalent and hurting sales. Same goes for Sony first to the PS Go to fight piracy and then the Vita.


Basically this. Pirates buying the system, even if they actually did never buy games (which they don't) is still a system being sold which makes the market for the system bigger, which makes devs support it more.

Basically this: Devs don't care how many systems are selling... it's about software selling. The idea that piracy helped sell games on the PSP is just plane wrong. It sacred developers away and killed it early.

[Tanooki]

That's no surprise. I know one of the things the DSi was done for was a test, not just the beefier hardware and the whole pre-eShop thing they did, but also for security purposes. That's when they started that RSA 128bit encryption setup if I recall right and it well stifled a lot of the piracy problems the system had. I remember when that hit people were having for a long stretch a hell of a time trying to access let alone rip the games off the cards, and then from there execution was even a much larger problem. It wasn't until I think the turn of 2014 when some team finally figured out how to break the 3DS card to dump the rom. I'm not so certain about how active it is with a kit that can play them on a 3DS though, and even if there is one, how well does it really work with those often 3DS firmware patches that come out that just talk about security and jibberish and not real updates which clearly is to screw with pirates. Nintendo has it well locked down compared to what Sony was incapable of doing well on PSP.

[kai123]

The thing you guys keep bitching at Sony about with the Vita is the memory cards but the reason they are using a proprietary card is to combat piracy. Sony can't do anything right for any of you as it is. If it had internal storage it wouldn't be enough if it had no storage what a dumb move.


Either way most people want the system to play retro games on. There are tons of people who refuse to update their system so they can do the PSP exploits that came out. Nobody wants a dedicated games machine as much as everyone whines that they do.

I just can't believe people expected Sony to give them anything because they released a system without a UMD drive. That system wasn't meant for you and was Sony testing the all digital waters and I wish they would have stuck with it. Fuck retail and just treat it like Apple does. It would have been all profit for Sony.

[Leo_A]

The thing you guys keep bitching at Sony about with the Vita is the memory cards but the reason they are using a proprietary card is to combat piracy.

Sorry, but that old excuse is rubbish. Using common and affordable media formats doesn't have to increase security vulnerabilities, if the system is properly secured.

They did this to gouge their customers, despite the logic against it since it's holding back a platform that is so focused on digital distribution. That's where the real issues lies anyways. Not so much that it's proprietary, but because of the outrageous price points that they've gone with.

[kai123]

Sorry, but that old excuse is rubbish. Using common and affordable media formats doesn't have to increase security vulnerabilities, if the system is properly secured.

They did this to gouge their customers, despite the logic against it since it's holding back a platform that is so focused on digital distribution. That's where the real issues lies anyways. Not so much that it's proprietary, but because of the outrageous price points that they've gone with.

Having their own memory card has seemed to work quite well so far to combat piracy. I don't think it took that long for the PSP to be cracked wide open in comparison. The only thing released so far is a hack for the PSP emulator built into the Vita.

How is is any different from a phone manufacture not including an SD card slot? More storage costs an entirely new phone. People don't seem to mind paying $500 for a device with 16GB of storage and redownloading things all the time or just not having it with them at all.

Plus nobody is ever being gouged for any of it. If you bought a Vita without researching what is required for it then that is your own fault. If you can't afford it then don't buy it.

Just another reason to whine on the internet instead of playing games. I am hitting the eject button on this thread.

[Tanooki]

Going to have to agree, I liked the proprietary card because it helped kick off the ease of it being pirated so badly. The UMD they probably didn't think would be bypassed and cracked so badly but it was. This go around they upped the security a lot and made their own card too that is just intended for the system just like Nintendo and their 3DS cards.

[Leo_A]

Having their own memory card has seemed to work quite well so far to combat piracy. I don't think it took that long for the PSP to be cracked wide open in comparison. The only thing released so far is a hack for the PSP emulator built into the Vita.


The PSP's memory was also a proprietary Sony format.


Plus nobody is ever being gouged for any of it. If you bought a Vita without researching what is required for it then that is your own fault. If you can't afford it then don't buy it.

When you're depending so much on digital revenue, having probably the highest cost per gig of flash memory in the electronic's world today, necessary to store said content, isn't something to defend.


Just another reason to whine on the internet instead of playing games. I am hitting the eject button on this thread.

I just gave my opinion. You're the one getting upset.

[kupomogli]

What's weird is that DS piracy was just as bad but games still sold in legit ways. Why? Is it just because the system had a wide distribution of age groups while the PSP didn't?

Look at the chart that I linked. Phantasy Star Portable 2 is a niche title yet it 4.6 million copies of pirated software, while something as popular as Mario with New Super Mario Bros only had 1.5 million, despite the DS having far more consoles sold.

The DS was pirated as well, but not at all like the PSP. The ease of piracy on the PSP, which required nothing more than flashing the firmware with CFW, then there's the obvious average age of each community.

[Buyatari]

Nintendo handhelds without strong 1st party software would have died long ago. Pokemon is crack for children.

All Handhelds esp the Vita because it lacks pokecrack have serious competition from phones and tablet games that cost 99 cents.

[Tupin]

I think a major thing with the Vita and Sony in general is how Sony tries to push for Western dev support when they really don't want to support it because they never liked handhelds and now would prefer mobiles over a dedicated system.

It's no secret that most of the games on the 3DS are Japan developed. Barring a few examples I can't think of a popular Western game on the system.

[ScourDX]

I blame the Sony Marketing department for the debacle. Perhaps Vita is more appealing in Japan than it is in N. America or Europe. Maybe because Sony knows Japan consumer is loyal. Here in N. America or Europe, it is either you give us lots of goodies or nobody will buy from you.

[Nophix]

Hey, DP is back. Forgot all about this thread.

The more I shop for stuff for this thing, the more I'm realizing Sony just screwed the pooch. Tiny little corner displays, a handful of mediocre games, that's it.

It really seems they're pushing for digital on it, but the astronomical cost of memory kills that, too.

I'm sorry, but I just bought several class 10 64gb cards for my wife's photography studio for about $20 each off Amazon. Why is the Vita memory so ridiculous?

[Leo_A]

I believe that Sony themselves and the smartphone are primarily responsible.

I suspect that they realized too late in the game that the smartphone was going to kill the dedicated gaming portable. Rather than scrap it and lose everything that they invested into this market while angering retailers and gamers alike, they followed through with a more limited program with the minimal investment possible in order to recoup some of that rather than scuttling it at the last minute.

I firmly believe that they knew that the Vita was the end game for this sort of system from Sony even before its December 2011 launch. While I imagine that some sort of portable strategy exists beyond the Vita at Sony today since the demand for gaming on the go hasn't gone away and will only be growing, I'm sure that it won't be taking the form of a dedicated gaming handheld.

Too many people want a flexible general purpose device that meets most, if not all, of their portable electronic needs in order for them to continue as-is in such a declining marketplace. Similarly, I feel that this is why Nintendo needs a merging of the ways since they're similarly suffering, selling for instance just a fraction of 3DS systems compared to the DS during the same span of time its lifespan (and in the face of only token competition from Sony this generation compared to what the DS went up against with the PSP).

If Nintendo goes with another closed platform rather than maximizing their efficiency by joining the program with their console line, I suspect that Nintendo's next-gen handheld will suffer a similar fate as that of the Vita.


It really seems they're pushing for digital on it, but the astronomical cost of memory kills that, too.

This, along with the peculiar limited backwards compatibility nature of it, puzzle me more than anything else. Sony was the pioneer of subsidizing hardware sales in the recognition that the real money is in software.

Yet here we are and not only are they not doing that for a key piece of the digital puzzle on a platform so dependent upon digital distribution, they're if anything charging a hefty premium above the break-even point for what amounts to by far probably the most expensive flash based memory on the market today on a per gig basis.

[Nophix]

I honestly think smartphone gaming is becoming a passing fad. The controls are terrible, and the amount of shovelware is staggering.

Everyone I know that got into it has already moved on. Most are rocking a 3ds.

[Tanooki]

Well Leo if you're right, I hope Nintendo goes down in flames with their head held high. I'm so fucking sick of everything these days having to be an all in one box with some pretty rotten compromises on this or that to make it all work out well. Older controller using players and new, I both see struggle to use a shitty touch panel to play a lot of differing games that aren't just meant for tapping and swiping. Someone needs to make a stand against it with a dedicated device and so far it appears Nintendo and Sony to a lesser degree are doing just that.

Many these days seem to think that locked down digital touch panel junk that works like a swiss army knife is the way to go, but is it really? Sure it's one less thing in your pocket, and that's nice, but at what cost?

I'm kind of in line with nophix, it's somewhat of a fad, to some people, not all though. In time you'll find what you're seeing in the android space playing out even more. Those who get fed up getting killed or doing less quality play out of a touch panel graduate to a Moga, Nvidia shield, or something with a bluetooth/usb controller strapped on which is clunky and again in this case it's like carrying two devices anyway. Sure the games are free or upwards of $10-15 in most cases(with a lot more in the $5-10 range) that aren't just shovelware, yet even then some going upwards still IAP you to death. I think you'll find the true casuals and non-gamers, just those wanting a pokey distraction will keep eating that stuff up, but those who want a driving game, a platformer, a fighter, a space shooter, a FPS or the rest that plays right will want actual buttons and a stick or two. The only way I've seen a compromise on this was Sony of all people and they had their PSP phone thing where the controller slid out from behind the panel like the old slide text keyboard phones and with their Ericsson phone line it could work. I just don't ever see Nintendo aligning with AT&T or TMobile to do the same, they're control freaks. Their saving grace would be the scaled software/hardware approach PCs has and having 1 system for home or on the go that runs the same games as a cost savings.




By the way off topic kind of since Vita memory was brought up, and it's off topic as I'm sure there's isn't on sale, but with Radio Shack going out of business on over a 1000 stores they have steep sales on stuff going and memory cards are one. I got a $80 memory card for $25 yesterday (32GB Ultra Micro SD) for my New3DS. If you need some SD memory of some size, look before it's sold out.

[Leo_A]

Well Leo if you're right, I hope Nintendo goes down in flames with their head held high.

I don't think they have to worry. While the details remain to be seen, some variation on what we both believe is their strategy going forward should help tremendously.

We'll still have a dedicated Nintendo portable, it just won't be a closed system that's walled off from the console half of Nintendo. While I don't see a dedicated handheld ever again being the hit like the DS was, this should greatly help their quest for profitability with both lines.

[Tanooki]

Yeah we're on the right page I think.

One thing I noticed us here and others who talk about this junk never seem to take into the argument is that while the 3DS has sold less than the DS, it actually in a warped way hasn't sold worse. I know that sentence makes no sense exactly, but I'm looking at it not from total sales, but the total sales from actual gamers/game players. I'd argue the not-so-smart phones of the GBA and DS era helped to take no bite or a minimal one out of their pocket, and because of that people who wanted some cheap entertainment on the go would buy the GBA and especially due to the touch ability of it the DS to do casual games. Look how many more super casual touch puzzles, trivia, and other stuff showed up on the DS, even shitty shovelware ports of FLASH games like Bookworm, Bejeweled, Crosswords, Brain training games, etc. They'd be fine forking over the price for the system, and then they'd buy like 1-3 games for the life of the system. I've seen setups like this often on ebay, flea markets (both states I've lived in), and craigslist. Non-gamers who got their fill of their shovelware/web games and dump it in a cheap clump online or off to make a few bucks back not caring the system alone is worth more than they asked at the time. My mom who hasn't been a game player since the late 70s and a little of the 80s actually ended up with a Nintendo DS, and she had brain training, new york times crosswords, we got her Mario, and she had like one or two more puzzle games, that's it. They were all more or less bought at one time and she played them in bed in the evening or in other random places (like being stuck in an airport/plane) and that was it. I know she still has it, doubt she uses them at all anymore, but she fits that mold of the one and done buyer of casual stuff.

Now that those people don't have to give a crap and already have an Android something or iPhone whatever, they can get those games for freemium IAP abuse or for 99 cents to five bucks. They can make their calls, and touch away in the same lame non-gamer casual games to relax or keep mildly stimulated. Where's that leave us? Actual gamers, people who actively buy the game cards and do the system downloads (dsi forward) who will happily fork over $8 here, $30-40 there for a real game that has full experience controls, game play mechanics, and skill put into it to make that purchase worth the non-touchy based phone game price. I'd think if you stacked up the sales of some key first and third party DS games over a year or two on the market against a similar or same mascot release game on the 3DS the sales probably would look pretty encouraging.

[Leo_A]

Even if you eliminated half of the DS install base for being casuals that have flown the coop leaving this to the domain of true gamers or something of the sort, and cut out half of the PSP install base as having purchased it for nothing but piracy reasons (A gross exaggeration since all one has to do is compare attach rates to see that it sold software at a level not much below that of the DS), the number of 3DS systems at this point in its life is still dwarfed by what that generation of hardware accomplished to the same point (Even if you add what little the Vita contributes to the 3DS totals, we're still way below even 50%).

The 3DS, while successful, has been a much more modest hit that has routinely shown evidence of the changing market conditions. And it sadly hasn't just been the Bejeweled crowd that has left in large numbers. There's a reason why 3rd party development is down so much. Even your beloved JRPG's, several of which you always put forth as representing that 3rd party development is stronger than ever on Nintendo handhelds, are down greatly compared to just what appeared on the DS.

And that's about as non-casual of a genre as they come. More has happened this generation than just a return to normalcy like you're suggesting.

Good games are plentiful still, happily making this academic at this time and mere fodder for forum discussions. But it's going to be forcing change, such as possibly what we've spoken about to shore up both of their primary product lines.

[Tanooki]

Whatever the case something has to be done. It wouldn't be great if you had a Nintendo haneheld ending up like the WiiU with nothing to show for it but Nintendo games and third party downloads of android shovelware, they'd be screwed. I know they're smarter than that, but the question is how smart.

[Leo_A]

Just remember that the healthier it is for Nintendo themselves, the more attractive it will also be for the 3rd parties. The fortunes of both should go hand in hand, although I'd keep my expectations somewhat in check if I were you.

Obviously, even if Nintendo does every last thing correct with their plans and implementation of their next generation of gaming hardware, it still isn't going to be the place to go for the typical 3rd party fare that MS and Sony has to themselves these days where console gaming is concerned. Took about 20 years for Nintendo to get in this position, and it's impossible for it to be resolved almost overnight.

But hopefully it will much more resemble the DS/Wii years of support than the more modest level of support from 3rd parties this generation, and start things on the path where if dedicated gaming hardware is still how we play games in two or three generations, maybe Nintendo will be a viable option or even the preferred choice as one's only gaming system.

[Tanooki]

Oh I know they buried themselves as far as consoles go. My upbeat feeling would be tied to if they bound the two systems into one set of similar scaled up/down parts that use the same game media on both. A unique piece of handheld hardware that has a beefier optional home console component to use. Something like that they'd end up seeing the low costs of development having third parties want to make some games for it just like on 3DS. I don't see another Wii or DS/GBA in their future, but if they did that they'd I think be in a good spot to last.

[duffmanth]

Retailers aren't in any way responsible for shitty Vita sales. Sony obviously hasn't learned from their mistakes with the PSP. Although the Vita has dual analog sticks, it suffers from the same mistakes that plagued the PSP. The lack of AAA exclusive games, too many ports, and over priced memory cards.

[CDiablo]

IMO Vita suffers the same fate as Wii U. Didn't sell 3rd party as expected(and 3rd parties put in actual effort unlike Wii U) so they lost most of that support. I don't think that Sony tried hard enough and they had all but abandoned the thing 2 years in. PS4 became a success and it was obvious it was no longer a priority. They pretty much screwed over the userbase once they had easy money(PS4) to focus on.

[Dashopepper]

Vita and Wii U are quite a bit different and will have different fates. Sony has stated that Vita will not be getting any more AAA first or second party games. All Wii U gets are AAA first and second party games, and almost noting else. Nintendo seems fine with it becoming the gamecube 2.

[Tanooki]

Uhh Gamecube 2? The WiiU has nothing comparable to it with the GC. The Gamecube may have been screwed out of some very key third party games such as the Rockstar releases, but go check the release list it has a ton of third party games to play, and in many cases when you discount the online multiplayer stuff getting points taken off they tended to be the best releases of the ports too. GC was the last machine third parties bothered to make third party games with a solid effort.

[BlastProcessing402]

Apparently Sony found the most successful method of fighting "piracy" with the Vita. Not having games that anyone wanted to "pirate".

[The 1 2 P]

I thought the introduction of PS4 remote play via the Vita was going to revitalize Sony's latest handheld. There were even rumors of a PS4/Vita bundle for that very reason although I'm unaware if those were ever released. However, it seems now that the system has been largely forgotten in the US. As much as people like to talk about the failure of the Wii U, the Vita actually makes the Wii U look like a partial success story.

[retroguy]

I don't know why the WiiU gets singled out. Compared to the massive sales of the previous two gens, it seems to me like every system this gen has failed. I think part of that has to do with big, AAA multi-platform games still getting a 360 release more often than not. Since people who had a PS3 likely had a 360 too, there's no reason to get a PS4 or Xbox One when a good chunk of non-exclusives can be gotten for a system they already have.

[Rickstilwell1]

I don't know why the WiiU gets singled out. Compared to the massive sales of the previous two gens, it seems to me like every system this gen has failed. I think part of that has to do with big, AAA multi-platform games still getting a 360 release more often than not. Since people who had a PS3 likely had a 360 too, there's no reason to get a PS4 or Xbox One when a good chunk of non-exclusives can be gotten for a system they already have.

This could be true. Just the other day in Target I heard this 20-something year old girl tell her kid brother about her teen sister who was just a little bit off in the distance "Tell her she don't need no Xbox one, she already got a 360"

Not everyone is ready to upgrade. The only reason I got a 3DS and Wii U was because Mario games make me want to play them ASAP. Hardly any other franchise does that for me. The other brands I could still just let wait a while.

[Tanooki]

That's no surprise. The jump between the pS2 to PS3 while both held on side by side for that 10 year policy rarely if ever shared a single release. Sony and MS used to have testicles and they'd cut off gamers from new releases and shove them into buying new hardware. This time around everyone seems fairly nutless and just ports the games down to the older hardware to the detriment of some lower quality on the higher end new systems as a side effect of porting ease. The hardware makers and the game makers are not willing to force people to upgrade so this generation is lingering in some crappy limbo of somewhat weak ports with no incentive to upgrade. It's their own fault and worse yet these systems started out (PS4 at least) at a lower price point than the last generation. Nintendo sticking to being Nintendo just had a cheap box and they don't play porting games of that style, they shovel stuff to another system later down the road or on a virtual console download which won't harm new sales.

I'd feel bad about owning the PS4 I do, but seeing I only ended up after some work making it cost me just $200 I don't care, but I would have at $400 a lot. I've only got 6 games for it, and nothing is really unique to it or taps its resources all that well other than Little Big Planet 3. I could have waited but I knew finding another new PS4 at $200 wasn't going to be anytime soon. I bought it for $300 shipped, ended up being a big bundle deal with games I didn't want, sold those off and got it down to what I paid.

[ProjectCamaro]

Compared to the massive sales of the previous two gens, it seems to me like every system this gen has failed.

I have to disagree. The PS2 is the best selling home console in history and the PS4 is currently the fastest selling console in Sony's history meaning it's doing better at this point than the PS2 was. Sounds like a pretty big sucess to me.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PlayStation-4-Fastest-Selling-Console-Sony-History-70638.html

[ZeroCool]

Apparently Sony found the most successful method of fighting "piracy" with the Vita. Not having games that anyone wanted to "pirate".
Lol good one.

[kupomogli]

Lol good one.

Only because it's so true.

*edit*

I almost never purchase digital, but Hotline Miami was amazing so I bought Hotline Miami 2 which is cross buy on the PS4, Vita, and PS3. So really the only good thing about the Vita is that it's getting some decent indie games that are cross buy between the PS4 and PS3. Also every few months we get a good one for free on PS+ that surprisingly I liked and would never have purchased otherwise.