Is it me, or do Master System titles have really bad game feel overall?

[The Adventurer]

So I had the opportunity its to play a pile of Master System titles today. I've always found the system interesting and its library a potential well of new material.

But now that I've had a real go at some of the major titles I can't help but feel that most of them just feel.. Bad. Slippery movement, floaty jumping, awkward Attack animations... It's kind of irritating because a lot of the titles look fantastic. But compared to the average control quality of comparable NES titles, it's just not jiveing with me. Never mind how many have reversed jump/Attack from the Mario mold.

Was it just to early, was good game feel just not natural for developers yet? Or is it a system limitation, maybe due to the questionable D-pad it was stuck with?


The best feeling game I've played so far is Phantasy Star. But you can't really go wrong with a top down grid, I will say it's first person dungeons are the absolute best I've ever seen of its generation, he'll they're better then even anything the SNES was capable of. It's insane.

[bb_hood]

Yeah, once you actually play master system games you quickly realize they are not... well.. good.


he'll they're better then even anything the SNES was capable of. It's insane.

lets not get crazy...

[The Adventurer]

Yeah, once you actually play master system games you quickly realize they are not... well.. good.
It's annoying, because with tighter controls, they would be.



lets not get crazy...

I'm serious, I'm playing various SMT titles on snes, and thier 1st person sections aren't this smooth.

[Garry Silljo]

At one point I was only one 2 games away from a complete U.S. set. I sold all of it and some other stuff during a time of hardship and although I've regained most of what I gave up, I've really no desire to get back into the Master System. The control has the most to do with that. Almost every game feels slippery. I'm actually having trouble thinking of a single game where I wouldn't say it feels loose. It's really proof that graphics aren't everything. So many games look so much more advanced than the NES and then you pick up the controller and it all goes to hell.

[celerystalker]

Yep. Slippery control and choppy scrolling are the hallmarks of the system. There are some good games, but the fact that the same issues are common to so many games says something.

[retroguy]

While I only have ten or so games, overall I love my Master System and would like to get more games for it. I actually like the Master System version of Double Dragon more than the NES version and Rambo is a better playing game than, say, Ikari Warriors. Shinobi and Rampage are tons of fun too. Like any game system, it depends on which games you're talking about because every system has its fair share of stinkers.

[Edmond Dantes]

I think the OP's problem might be the controller.

I own five MS games and I've never really felt like the controls were bad, outside of the whole "you have to press a button on the console itself to pause the game" thing. But I play MS games using a Power Base Converter on a Model 1 Genesis, and I use a Genesis controller. I do in fact own two Master System controllers and a Light Phaser, but I can't confirm any of those three actually work--my dad found them while dumpster-diving and gave them to me (me being OCD, I scrubbed them down with soap and alcohol before even touching them bare-handed... so for all I know the controllers are too drunk to work. But then, why would I want those damn squares when I can use a three-button Genny controller?)

EDIT:

For what its worth, the five SMS games I own are:

Rastan
Zillion
Golvellius Valley of Doom
Ys the Vanished Omens
Phantasy Star

Not a control problem with any of them. Not one.

[Tanooki]

Without reading others posts to sway mine I'll say this much. I've owned a SMS twice in the last 10 years, and while it would get good use for a year or so, it would end up being a dust bunny farmer in the end and sold. The problem isn't the lack of variety, sure Nintendo screwed Sega pretty hard, but they did have a lot of differing games, many trying to be improved pseudo copy cats of some of the better NES stuff, and usually they went down alright but many fell flat. Slippery movement was a good issue with some of the fan favorite platforming games like Alex Kidd and Psycho Fox, Fox far more to the point for me it was a chore and desire wise unplayable after about an hour of abuse as it was like SMB2's ice world every stage with one hit deaths. Attack animations was another, most of them literally were a light switch of on and off, NES usually did this or just +1 or 2 animations more just so it felt less cheap and sloppy like some Jonny Quest animated cartoon of the 60s. The deal I found though was up until it more or less dropped dead in the US that was standard fare, but in the last months/years when you got stuff like Alex Kidd in Shinobi World, Rampage, Spiderman, Strider, and above all Golden Axe Warrior then it finally shined all too late. If you threw in the Genesis/arcade ports the UK and Brazil got though things were a very different thing entirely. Streets of Rage1+2, that Castlevania clone, Sonic 2, Dynamite Headdy, and others it was surprising how nice SMS games could have been which made it far more depressing the crap that was passed in the US was all we mostly got. Sure Sega did some nice stuff with various arcade games, but they also did some abysmal other stuff, and some third parties did justice like with Rampage and Double Dragon, but it was few and far between. I've owned probably 1/2 the US SMS library at one time or another and around a dozen PAL titles, tried ROMS for other stuff that's just so crappily priced because only Brazil got it, so I do have a fair grasp.

If the SMS were allowed by Sega to be properly pushed instead by stupid Tonka. If developers would have really tried to tap the system well more often, and if Nintendo hadn't scared off a good few others, I think the turd to gem ratio would be more NES like than a bit wide gulf of terribleness as far as US games go. If you want to write off the SMS I don't blame you, but if you wish to at least ROM first, buy later try out the UK stuff, you may find it's less crappy than it appears. The d-pad I never had an issue with, and I don't think it was too early because the Famicom/NES was first and they learned there enough. The system had some display and audio limits, but it had enough strengths when done right, so it's a total blame game justified against sega and other game developers for just being awful about things. I really don't believe there was like a 1986-1991 gap of a learning curve to make non-crappy stuff.

I agree with Phantasy Star too, stunning, also you need to be amazed by Wonderboy 3, Power Strike (a shooter), Aerial Assault(solid GG port), Golden Axe Warrior, and a few others before totally writing it off.

[Alianger]

What were you playing other than PS, and what exactly is "game feel"? You should use a MD controller, it works with like 95% of the library.

Pause button on the console and lacklustre sound (in the west anyway) are the only big issues with the SMS to me.

[The Adventurer]

I'm going to be honest, I emulated a bunch on games via my Wii*, so I was using the Wii Pro Controller. Which, while not the greatest D-Pad, is no slouch for retro games in general I've found. So far I've played;

Alex Kid in Miracle World (Reversed jump/attack, Alex moves too god damn fast and has a short attack)
Cyber Hunter (a bit Metroid like, and the character actually moves pretty well. I was actually getting into it, but his punch attack is one frame garbage that gives no feedback when striking enemies. Just frustrating.)
Zillion (another Metroid like game, something about movement just didn't feel right. And not having a crouch attack, only that crawl animation felt really awkward when dodging enemy fire. Still, it feels a bit better then Cyber Hunter)
Raston (this game actually feels pretty good, now I know where Volgar the Viking stole all its influences from)
Cyber Shinobi (holy shit is this game horrible just in general)
Robocob vs Terminator (a stiffer Contra, with bullets that are small and hard to dodge while firing)
Strider (It seems like a port of the Genesis version? only with horrendous slowdown when anything happens)
Strider 2 (port of the Genesis's already horrible game)
Back to the Future 2 (you have no idea how happy I was when this game booted up with the BttF music, and really good looking cutscene images straight from the movies! Finally the Back to the Future game we all needed! Only then the game starts and holy shit, NES BttF might actually be better)
Psycho Fox (somebody said this was the good Kid Kool? Its... not much better so far. I get what they what to do with these momentum mechanics, but Sonic this ain't)
Vampire (overall pretty good feeling when moving, attacking, and jumping. But its some how actually more of a pain in the ass to climb stairs then in Castlevania! Looks really good though)


*I do have a Genesis + Power Base + Master System Controller (And Alex Kid in Miracle World, Rastan, Space Harrier, Wonder Boy III, and Shinobi in cart form), I just got impatient for actually finding titles for it.

[Alianger]

Well, I've nothing against emulation or trying before buying, but looking at that list and your thoughts I'm not surprised you didn't get that great of a first impression. :P
I'll give my comments on some of these though;

Alex Kidd in Miracle World - There's a later version which switches the buttons, or you can patch the rom you have to get the same effect (google KiddEd). I do agree about the attack range, but did you by any chance miss that you have an inventory on the pause screen? Because it's a platform/adventure hybrid game with some focus on item usage for puzzle solving and a shop system. One of the items is a bracelet, which is a ranged weapon. It's really one of the best games in terms of creativity and variation, though a little unpolished in some ways.

Cyber Hunter (a bit Metroid like, and the character actually moves pretty well. I was actually getting into it, but his punch attack is one frame garbage that gives no feedback when striking enemies. Just frustrating.) - The weird thing about this one is that you need to use a second controller to access the inventory. CH is kind of lacking when it comes to the level design (mostly flat corridors), and it's a very short game. You'll soon get weapon upgrades if you stick with it though. It's not a bad little game, and it has some great music.

Zillion - The stiff controls are probably the worst part (wouldn't say they're worse than the first Metroid though tbh), but I recommend sticking with this one. It's one of the more in-depth games featuring a level up system and three different characters, and there's a map you can access with one of the computer commands.

Cyber Shinobi - This is really the worst Shinobi game you could've chosen to play. The order should be something like this: Shinobi, Alex Kidd in Shinobi World, the GG games (which are basically SMS games with better colors and stereo sound), Shadow Dancer, then the MD/GEN games.

Robocob vs Terminator (a stiffer Contra, with bullets that are small and hard to dodge while firing) - Not bad for a western run 'n gun of its time, but lacking compared to the 16-bit game.

Strider 1-2, BttF - Ouch. Just avoid these.

Psycho Fox - I also find this one pretty frustrating, but I can mention that some of the other characters control better. I think it was the monkey or tiger that had the best acceleration.

Vampire/Master of Darkness - Pretty sure you can jump off/on stairs as opposed to Castlevania though? Yeah, this one's a pretty good clone, just kind of short and easy. Another good, similar game is Kenseiden, which has some action adventure elements to it.

Other games worth playing:
Wonder Boy 3
Illusion/Mickey Mouse series & Lucky Dime Caper
Power Strike 2
Fantasy Zone II
Golvellius: Valley of Doom
Ninja Gaiden
R-Type
Asterix
Wonder Boy in Monster Land
Bubble Bobble
Sonic 1, Sonic Chaos
Jurassic Park
Outrun 3D
Power Strike
Renegade
Ys
Enduro Racer
Gangster Town (light gun)
Road Rash
Chuck Rock II
Jang Pung 3

[retroman]

I love the Master System. Its one of my favorite systems of all time. I have over 70+ games for it. I do agree that the control pad that it comes with is crap. I dont see were the game play feels loose or have bad handle. I use a Sega Genesis controller for it and it works great. Just my opinion.

[Leo_A]

Golden Axe Warrior is a pretty great Zelda clone, although sadly, it's prohibitively expensive in its original form these days.

But via homebrew emulation, a Master System or Genesis Everdrive multicart, or Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection on the PS3 and 360, it can easily be enjoyed.

[homerhomer]

While I do think the SMS can perform when needed ( R-Type and Rastan, choplifter ) there was something a little off with the little box. About 6 months ago I bought Vigilante. While the game looks way better than Kung Fu for the NES the gameplay ruins the experience. I was playing it for about 1 minute when I realized that the controls sucked. There seems to be a slight delay when punching and kicking, it just didn't feel fluid like Kung Fu on the NES. I also noticed that I can't kick enemies while facing left I try to kick them but they always end up hugging me, this is just ridiculous.

I wonder was it the development kits? Was it the QA or lack there of?

I still like the system though :bigmac:

[celerystalker]

I will say, even though I often sound negative on the Master System, I actually love it. It's just that by comparison, I feel a lot of these flaws stand out. That said, Wonder Boy 3 rules. Time Soldiers is a surprisingly good arcade port, as is Rastan. Phantasy Star is great if you have a map, and I love the heck out of Golvellius. Alex Kidd in Miracle World is a minor classic, and Gangster Town is astounding for an 8-bit light gun game. Golden Axe Warrior is solid, and I like The Ninja and Penguin Land. Rambo: First Blood Part II is good, and while Double Dragon is sloppy, at least it's 2 player, 'cause playing a beat 'em up alone is just no good. Weird color pallette, though. Safari Hunt destroys Duck Hunt.

Master System is pretty great. Just don't expect its library to live up to the NES or Genesis.

[treismac]

While it isn't all of the Master System games by any means, there are certainly a significant amount of games for the system that have that slippery/roller skates on ice controls for me to nod my head at the op. I've yet to play a SMS game that has the stop on a dime controls of, say, Super Mario Bros.- certainly not Alex Kidd. With that said, Wonderboy handles probably just as well as its twin Adventure Island on the NES.

A good Genesis controller, as others noted above, eliminates the crap original controller issues.

[JeremiahJT]

I have never found a control problem running through Master System games except for the difficulty in hitting the diagonals thanks to the Master System d-pad. I did feel Psycho Fox had subpar controls, but outside of that game and the diagonal problem I have never thought poorly about the system's controls. But the difficulty in hitting the diagonal directions is a BIG problem in my book.

As far as Alex Kidd in Miracle World, it does not have reversed controls. Just because you played Super Mario Bros. first, it does not mean that is the correct way for the buttons to work.

And Zillion is not like Metroid, it is like Impossible Mission. I have never played Zillion, but I always heard/read is was like Metroid. One day I watched some gameplay videos and realized the NES fans really need to expand their horizons with some pre-NES stuff.

I never played a Master System growing up since I had a 7800 and an NES at that time, but once I finally got around to getting the system and some games I was quite impressed. Phantasy Star is great, but not as great as Dragon Warrior and its sequels. I prefer Golden Axe Warrior to The Legend of Zelda. I actually enjoy some of the sports titles, not Great Football mind you, but some of the rest are pretty fun.

I would not put it above (or even) with the NES, but it has some fantastic titles in my book.

[Steve W]

I'd been interested in the Master System since it came out, but went with the NES and Atari 7800 back in the day. I'd wanted one for a while, and in the late '90s I paid $50 for one at a street sale with about 14 or 15 games. I played each title for a short while, then put it in a storage box for the rest of eternity. I just thought the games were lacking in "fun factor". I don't recall much about the controllers giving me trouble, it's just that the games I ended up with were lame. I've since bought several SMS games over the years, much better games than The Ninja, My Hero, Black Belt, Kung-Fu Kid, Pro Wrestling, Rambo, and the other boring games I got with the system. But I've never felt the need to fire up the Master System to play any of them. That first bunch of titles pretty much ruined my enjoyment of the machine. It's like Sega hired programmers who had no sense of fun.

[celerystalker]

And Zillion is not like Metroid, it is like Impossible Mission. I have never played Zillion, but I always heard/read is was like Metroid. One day I watched some gameplay videos and realized the NES fans really need to expand their horizons with some pre-NES stuff.

It is almost exactly Impossible Mission, only with needless clues to jot down in every flipping room. I like some of the graphics, but Zillion is no Metroid. Oddly, it gets all the love while its sequel gets trashed, but I prefer Zillion II as a straight run & gun. It's tough, but less dull. On an unrelated side note, I really enjoyed the DS port of Impossible Mission. Played through it a few times and had some ancient-school fun.

[Tanooki]

We know that SEGA stood in the pre-video game days for SErvice GAmes, but when you get into it with the SMS, it kind of means SErviceable GAmes unfortunately. A lot of them really were not fun, many did have problems with diagonals, crap momentum/physics, or just poor design. But for every so many turds, there is one good one out there, just not a lot as far as the US market goes. They didn't help leave a good impression keeping the finally well made stuff mostly in the UK and later in Brazil. By the time the game system was getting solid play, Genesis had been out for a good year plus and made it just not worth buying at all compounded with the fact they pulled the games just as they got the quality issue figured out.

This has nothing to do with Nintendo NES fans needing to broaden their horizons, the SMS stuff greatly had issues they caused themselves alone in designing the games play mechanics and then a good many that while not fun were at least serviceably functional. And I do have to agree though, Alex Kidd buttons do feel reversed, not from a Nintendo stand point, but a gaming one on the whole if you throw arcade and the rest in. The way a thumb will rock over two buttons, it makes no sense to have a jump and fire/run function reversed as you can't do it well if at all. That's why those Mega Man ported NES titles on that Gamecube disc get crapped on so hard with everyone saying buy the PS2 one since it's setup right as the games are borderline unplayable.

[Alianger]

Yeah that's true about the US library. I keep forgetting I'm in europe when discussing SMS on forums.

However he did have a point about Zillion. And you can have swapped buttons in AKIMW (perhaps not in any of the US releases though), among other things via romhacks.

[celerystalker]

For me, it's not about how buttons are reversed or not as much as, like Tanooki said, what feels natural to my hand. On a 2-button format using my right thumb, it is easier and more comfortable to perform repeated or prolonged button presses with the tip of my thumb and then quickly depress the joint for the occasional and more measured, precise presses such as jumping, which is stabilized for pecision by my downward-pressed tip. That may seem over-explained, but I am much faster and precise in flexing the joint in my thumb, and can mash away with the tip. It's comfortable, stable, and I can't help but think Nintendo quality tested the bejeesus out of it in design phases, as that controller format was not ubiquitous at thw time. Sega's controllers sucked until the model 2 Saturn. The Master System's mushy square was a laughingstock, the Genesis pad is serviceable, but the three-button layout was uncomfortable when compared to the diamond layout that most controllers have used since, and the Saturn model 1 had that goofy bowl-shaped d-pad that made doves cry.

[Aussie2B]

I'm going to be honest, I emulated a bunch on games via my Wii*, so I was using the Wii Pro Controller. Which, while not the greatest D-Pad, is no slouch for retro games in general I've found.

If the Pro Controller is anything like the Wii Classic Controller, I've noticed it makes games feel considerably slipperier than if I play them on the original hardware with the intended controller. I'd say "not the greatest D-Pad" is an understatement. Also, since it's a wireless signal, there's a noticeable delay as well.

[Emperor Megas]

I wouldn't have noticed many of these issues before joining this forum. It's interesting to learn some of the problems that people have with the Master System (and other consoles and games) that I never experienced myself. I suppose because I came up on the Master System (I had an NES, too, but the SMS was a 'main' console) most of the things that people didn't like weren't an issue for me at all. Like the slidey physics of Alex Kidd. They never bothered me. I even ENJOYED 'sliding around' under crevices and slowly plodding through. I also never heard about the whole reversed buttons before I read it here. I've heard it mentioned a lot since though. I've never EVER noticed a difference in any 2-button game that had a different jump attack layout. I understand now why some people have an issue with it, but I just never even notices that most games had it set up a certain way.

I always loves the Master System, and a big part of that is the way that SMS games just have that SMS 'feel' about them. The colour palette, the high pitched chip sound, I just love that shit.


Honestly, the only thing I REALLY HATE about the SMS is the fact that the pause button is on the actual system. What were they thinking? o_0

[Gentlegamer]

And I do have to agree though, Alex Kidd buttons do feel reversed, not from a Nintendo stand point, but a gaming one on the whole if you throw arcade and the rest in. The way a thumb will rock over two buttons, it makes no sense to have a jump and fire/run function reversed as you can't do it well if at all. That's why those Mega Man ported NES titles on that Gamecube disc get crapped on so hard with everyone saying buy the PS2 one since it's setup right as the games are borderline unplayable.

I was about to post much the same about button lay out. It's not just a SMB standard, it's the standard of all the great action-platform games from Capcom and Konami.

[The Adventurer]

If the Pro Controller is anything like the Wii Classic Controller, I've noticed it makes games feel considerably slipperier than if I play them on the original hardware with the intended controller. I'd say "not the greatest D-Pad" is an understatement. Also, since it's a wireless signal, there's a noticeable delay as well.

Nothing Ive ever noticed with snes, nes, neogeo, or turobographix titles I've bought via VC.

[Az]

Time Soldiers is a surprisingly good arcade port

Time Soldiers is a pretty cool title for the system. Sure, it's an obscure arcade game and suffers when ported to a standard 8-bit controller (just like Ikari Warriors and Guerrilla War) but it's a solid top down shooter entry and looks and plays much better than the aforementioned 2 games on NES.


Gangster Town is astounding for an 8-bit light gun game.

Finally someone gets it! Gangster Town is amazing, especially being such an early release. Prior to the Wii the SMS was the king of light gun games.


Master System is pretty great. Just don't expect its library to live up to the NES or Genesis.

The thing I find amazing about the SMS (at least in the US) is that even after all the criticism it still had solid or at least serviceable entries in pretty much every genre but was basically supported by one single company. Everyone shits on the SMS library and holds the NES library far above it, with justification, but when you compare the entire US SMS library solely against the NES library of Nintendo-only titles it's not quite the same argument.

[Tanooki]

You could stretch the argument Nintendo gets a free pass from fanboys too. SMS was supported alone and lasted like 5 years in the states. Then you had basically the same slim to none support for the Wii and WiiU mainly just carried by Nintendo and it's like a great system. :D

[celerystalker]

Fanboys always give favorites a pass, but the old Master System, which I'm rather fond of, didn't even get the level of support the Wii did... not even worldwide. The Master System isn't like the PC Engine, which was an enormous success with a huge library in another territory. It's got literally a handful of neat PAL and Brazilian games and a pile of Game Gear ports. Then again, if it weren't for Fortune Street I'd have probably played my Master System more than my Wii... but even though I prefer the games on Master System to Wii, I couldn't objectively say it has a better library or better support, I just like old games better. First party to first party, Nintendo probably still wins. The only generations I'd give Sega a shot were... actually, all of the others. I personally prefer SNES, but it's perfectly viable to prefer Genesis. I like Sega's Saturn lineup better than N64, and outright prefer Dreamcast to Gamecube. Master System, though... no matter how much I love it and play it, it's just not that big of a lineup. I'll always give it light gun games, though. Nintendo has always sucked ass atlight gun games, and Sega is, was, and always will be king (suck it, Namco), and Master System has a surprisingly huge amount of light gun games, many of tremendous quality, and some even 2 player. Gangster Town, Rescue Mission, Global Defense, Rambo III, Safari Hunt, Shooting Gallery, Wanted!, Laser Ghost... awesome.

[Tanooki]

Your post I'm conflicted. I don't think you give enough credit to the PAL and Brazilian stuff as I think if it put it over the Wii in unique variety and support, but other than that no, really Sega is and was the king of light gun games and their start on that SMS system was fantastic. Gangster Town any day over Hogan's Alley. Duck Hunt still I think is better than Safari Hunt even if the variety isn't there, it's more fun. I thinks its largely questionable to say Sega was the better in other generations. Saturn was fairly weak against the PS1, now against N64 you could argue that one all merit on taste, not just quality and quantity. Dreamcast though I rarely had touched a game I disliked, think it's their best system, but I wouldn't put it again over the PS2 or the Cube even as they had plenty enough that were excellent there too, but it wasn't bad, and better than xbox all day long.

[celerystalker]

Well, I know I've mentioned my thoughts on this in another thread, and I don't mean it belligerantly, as I do love my Master System, but I still contend that the PAL and Barzilian Master System library being a truly large and outstanding group of games that would have somehow changed things in the US to be an overblown revisionist position. It's Game Gear ports that certainly didn't move a ton of Game Gears and regional hacks to convert games like Wonderboy to be relevant in the market. Power Strike II is pretty neat, but the killer app isn't out there. I would love to discover a vein of games I've never heard of to breathe new life into the system. I've been importing the stuff for years, though, and I just don't see it. Ports of Game Gear games like Streets of Rage, Master of Darkness, and Virtua Fighter don't blow me away, and neither did PAL exclusives like Speedball or Battle OutRun. Outside of that, there are Disney platformers, some again Game Gear games and a couple of exclusives.

The Master System's success in Brazil came from Tec Toy understanding the mass poverty that prevented most citizens from adopting new systems as well as their restrictive taxes on foreign companies. They did what Majesco did here in the late '90s put out inexpensive hardware and games that they got the rights to on the cheap and made it available at a low price to a game-starved region where Nintendo refused to do business. It was genius and it worked so well that they did it again with the Mega Drive. Point is that it was an economic climate that allowed for that success, not a glut of brilliant exclusive software.

As far as the later gen comparisons go, I was only comparing to Nintendo directly because of the first-party fanboy piece of the conversation. Sega's first party content on those later systems really has stuck with me over the years.

[Aussie2B]

Nothing Ive ever noticed with snes, nes, neogeo, or turobographix titles I've bought via VC.

Well, like I said, maybe the Pro controller is a bit better about those issues. I wouldn't know because I've never played with one, just the Classic. I'm also not saying that there aren't Master System games that are inherently kind of slippery. But it is a fact that any wireless controller is going to have a greater delay in delivering information than a wired controller, and Nintendo hasn't made a particularly good D-pad in goodness knows how many years. Like with Dynastic Hero, I've played that game many times over in Japanese on my PC Engine, but I also bought it for VC to play in English. The game is fairly slippery to begin with but I had mastered the controls nonetheless on the original hardware, but even with that experience, on VC it was as if I had never played the game before I was fumbling around so much thanks to the issues the controller brought to the table. I eventually got used to it, but it's definitely a noticeable difference to me and an inferior experience control-wise compared to playing a hard copy of the game on its original hardware.

I'm just saying here that if you're not playing a game as was originally intended by the developer (that is, on the hardware it was made for using an official controller for said hardware) then you're not really in a position to judge the inherent quality of its controls. You could judge how it plays on whatever hardware and controller you're using, but any issue you're having isn't necessarily something programmed into the game and the developer's fault. For an extreme example, it's like when people criticize N64 game control schemes when they're playing on different hardware that uses controllers of a vastly different design (seeing as the N64 controller is pretty unique). Of course a control scheme tailor made for the N64's controller is not going to work as well (or at least differently) on a controller with an entirely different button layout. It's not fair to criticize a game for a reason such as that.

[The Adventurer]

Well, like I said, maybe the Pro controller is a bit better about those issues. I wouldn't know because I've never played with one, just the Classic.

The 'Pro' Controller is just the 'Classic' controller with slightly more 360 style hand grip. I like it a bit more then the Classic version because the shoulder buttons feel better. Also the wire comes out the top, instead of the bottom. But ultimately its the same controller using the same Wii mote wireless connection.

[bb_hood]

I think SMS games dont all run at 60 fps, so that may account for the choppy, slow feel.

[Zap!]

I think the OP's problem might be the controller.

I own five MS games and I've never really felt like the controls were bad, outside of the whole "you have to press a button on the console itself to pause the game" thing. But I play MS games using a Power Base Converter on a Model 1 Genesis, and I use a Genesis controller. I do in fact own two Master System controllers and a Light Phaser, but I can't confirm any of those three actually work--my dad found them while dumpster-diving and gave them to me (me being OCD, I scrubbed them down with soap and alcohol before even touching them bare-handed... so for all I know the controllers are too drunk to work. But then, why would I want those damn squares when I can use a three-button Genny controller?)

EDIT:

For what its worth, the five SMS games I own are:

Rastan
Zillion
Golvellius Valley of Doom
Ys the Vanished Omens
Phantasy Star

Not a control problem with any of them. Not one.

Golvellius had awful controls, making it virtually unplayable for me in the late 80's. I don't remember what it was exactly, but perhaps it was no diagonal movement or maybe no attacking while walking. A shame, because it would have been a great game with good controls and a battery back up.

[Rickstilwell1]

I think the OP's problem might be the controller.

I own five MS games and I've never really felt like the controls were bad, outside of the whole "you have to press a button on the console itself to pause the game" thing. But I play MS games using a Power Base Converter on a Model 1 Genesis, and I use a Genesis controller. I do in fact own two Master System controllers and a Light Phaser, but I can't confirm any of those three actually work--my dad found them while dumpster-diving and gave them to me (me being OCD, I scrubbed them down with soap and alcohol before even touching them bare-handed... so for all I know the controllers are too drunk to work. But then, why would I want those damn squares when I can use a three-button Genny controller?)

EDIT:

For what its worth, the five SMS games I own are:

Rastan
Zillion
Golvellius Valley of Doom
Ys the Vanished Omens
Phantasy Star

Not a control problem with any of them. Not one.

I found out that you can play any of the four main Sonic the Hedgehog titles on the Genesis with the Master System controller alone even though it doesn't have a Genesis start button on it. The four games were programmed in a way to allow you to use the Master System controller's "2" button to start or pause your game. So if I were you I would dig up those controllers with Sonic 1, 2, 3 or Knuckles and give it a try. Sometime soon I might even test Sonic CD to see if that works on it too. I might have found something here.

[Alianger]

Golvellius had awful controls, making it virtually unplayable for me in the late 80's. I don't remember what it was exactly, but perhaps it was no diagonal movement or maybe no attacking while walking. A shame, because it would have been a great game with good controls and a battery back up.

It controls fine for a Zelda 1-inspired game. Hit detection is pretty tight and landing a blow is satisfying. The lack of knockback for you and the enemies is a bit annoying though, as is getting knocked out of dungeons because you can't walk to the left. You're expecting controls that weren't standard on consoles until Zelda 3, pretty much.

[Emperor Megas]

I absolutely loved Golvellius when I was younger. I can't tell you how many times I've played through it. The music was awesome, the environments, enemies and allies had a lot of character. I even loved the way that the screen would scroll to the next area when you touched to edge. It was also one o the only Master System games to have REAL BOX ART on the case. GOOD artwork, at that!

I've never played through an entire Zelda game before, but I couldn't put Golvellius down BITD.

[celerystalker]

I'm a big Golvellius fan as well. I even think it's superior to Golden Axe Warrior. It feels like a hybrid of Zelda and Wonder Boy to me, and doesn't feel as much like a knock-off as a result.

[Tanooki]

I used to have it both on SMS and on iOS too. For some BS reason about a year ago apple had dotemu pull that game for whatever reason which pissed me off because I had just got an iphone just after the fact and couldn't re-download my purchase. >:\ I had it when I had an iPad2 and it was a nice conversion.

[Az]

I found out that you can play any of the four main Sonic the Hedgehog titles on the Genesis with the Master System controller alone even though it doesn't have a Genesis start button on it.

SMS pads will work with almost any Genesis game; they're designed where button 1 is start + A and button 2 is B + C.

Many, many years ago before I picked up a 2nd Genesis pad I was forced to use my SMS one when playing 2 player Streets of Rage. I couldn't jump since jumping would pause the game, but you could finish the game fine without jumping, so I slummed it like that for a bit until I picked up another pad.

[thegamezmaster]

Got a Sega Master System with a ton of games. Control wise some are hit or miss. Some take some getting used to loose control. Some good and some bad.

[Greg2600]

Really depends on the game. Many are fantastic, others are horrible. Anything but FM-based music is tough on the ears though.

[Arkanoid_Katamari]

The SMS is a great machine, I only have 5 games for it tho and not being a huge RPG nut I'm kinda in no huge rush to dive into it. They're hard to find systems and when I saw one a few years ago for $50 at a game store with cords, controllers, light gun, etc I jumped on it. I've never seen one since. I do play Astro Warrior now and then, it's an average top down shooter that's fun with an arcade stick. Out Run is also decent but I'm not a huge fan of Rad Racer, so this game kinda doesn't do it for me either. Maybe I should try Phantasy Star or Ys sometime. Or Double Dragon.

[evildead2099]

I'm with the original poster in the sense that I feel that SMS games generally have a very 'slippery' feel. The two SMS games I spent the most time playing were Cyborg Hunter and (more recently) Wonder Boy In Monster Land. I definitely remember Wonder Boy In Monster Land having something of a slippery feel, even when the game was played using a Dreamcast controller. (I emulated it on my Dreamcast.)

[Emperor Megas]

I've since bought several SMS games over the years, much better games than The Ninja, My Hero, Black Belt, Kung-Fu Kid, Pro Wrestling, Rambo, and the other boring games I got with the system.I really loved The Ninja. Trying to get 100% accuracy was fun as hell to me BITD. I thought Black Belt was pretty good, too.

[celerystalker]

I really loved The Ninja. Trying to get 100% accuracy was fun as hell to me BITD. I thought Black Belt was pretty good, too.

I like The Ninja as well. I missed out on that one when it was new. Years later I played Ninja Princess on Saturn, and when I found out that The Ninja was a port, I checked it out. Pretty awesome game!

[Emperor Megas]

I discovered Ninja Princess in the late 90's when I played it on MAME32. It made me wish that there was a genuine, cutesy Ninja Princess home port. You say there's one on the Saturn? Is it on a compilation disc or something? I can't see that being a stand alone 32-bit release.

[celerystalker]

It's on Sega Memorial Selection Vol. 2 along with The Samurai, Star Jacker, Penguin Land, Monaco GP, and Sindbad. Good stuff!

[Tanooki]

Not all played on ice. Try Wonderboy 3/Dragon's Trap. Some cool dude converted it to Windows just a few years ago, needs any version (since XP) of windows 32/64bit and .net 2.0 to go. See a youtube of it here and be happy. It even saves this time, no passwords required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaQLczTm9yQ

If you want it, go here for the only reliable version around -- http://www.smspower.org/forums/10266-DragonsCurseWBIIITheDragonsTrap
That link has v1.1, and also from the maker (dunno how he found him, I get nothing on google) v1.2 that works in 64bit Windows.

[tom]

It's you.

[wizardofwor1975]

I like Golvellius as well. Its a must have for my SMS collection. I also like Shinobi, Kenseiden, and Golden Axe Warrior. My young'uns and I also like Tazmania and Wonder Boy.