Has the Genesis/Mega Drive Aged Worse Than the SNES?

[Nz17]

Somehow, for me, the Genesis's library has lost its luster. That's not to say that it doesn't have great games or that I don't enjoy them. To the contrary, the MD/Genny is a great console with wonderful games. But the Genny, which once had a real whiz-bang factor for me, just doesn't have that sheen anymore. Yeah, the Sonic games and the Treasure-developed titles are fantastic looking and sounding, but... they just don't sound or look as impressive as they once did. And I say this as a person who didn't own but often preferred Genesis to SNES back in their heyday. To me back then, the SNES's sounds and visuals were just murky and muted (for lack of a better description). Meanwhile the NES's and Genny's graphics and music/sfx were sharp and fresh.

But now, while I still feel that way about the NES, I don't feel that way about the Mega Drive anymore... The SNES just seems like it is the better looking and sounding console now compared to the SEGA Genesis. I know each console has its different strengths, weaknesses, and abilities, but it doesn't seem the Genesis's library has aged well. Yes, the games in general seem to run faster with a higher frame-rate on the old SEGA compared to the Super Nintendo, but the quality of the audiovisual experience isn't there. The color palette is so much smaller and there is a lot of dithering in the graphics. And the sound chip doesn't put out a smooth, pleasant set of sounds and music. I regularly play the games in the emulated SEGA game collection on Steam (Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection is its name on consoles.) and watch YouTube videos of other Genny games played on original hardware, and they just don't hold up to the SNES's stuff.

I don't know why I think this way now. Perhaps it is due to overexposure to Genesis games versus not as much time spent with SNES games, and this is coloring my impression? Have you noticed a shift in your opinion too?

[HardcoreOtaku]

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[Tupin]

The Genesis lacked genres that tended to create games that would be remembered decades later. That's what I think.

[celerystalker]

I have the bias toward SNES, having been a staunch Nintendo guy up until 1998. I played everything, but Genesis stuff so often just felt rough to me, and that never really changed. The Genesis' smaller on-screen color palette and more limited sound just have always made it feel coarse when compared to the SNES and even TG16. For me, where the Genesis feels strong is arcade-style side-scrollers. Mystic Defender, Alisia Dragoon, Contra Hard Corps, Gunstar Heroes, Shinobi... they hold up well for me. So do the unique oddities like Gain Ground, Toejam & Earl, Crackdown, etc.

I think part of what hurts the Genesis is how things have changed in gaming. It was once lauded for its sports games, but very few people care about 20+ year old football games now. 2D fighters post-16 bit era really left the old games in the dust. Amiga strategy ports are largely outclassed by years of design improvement... these things don't feel timeless, even though they were pushing the envelope at the time.

I feel like the SNES library overall was less concerned with pushing things forward or being edgy and more about maximizing its strengths in design in its own time, and as a result it feels more elegant and polished... and its more flexible sound chip didn't hurt. More on-screen colors helps smooth out rough edges, so it generally just feels more complete.

Oh, and Beyond Oasis... that game feels like one of the more polished Genesis games to me. Slick game.

[WCP]

I think it depends on which era of Genesis software you're talking about.

Very early Genesis games do look and sound quite primitive. Games from 1989, 1990 and 1991 especially. Genesis games from 93, 94 and 95 aged pretty well all things considered. The audio on the Genesis just can't compete with the SNES, so it's an unfair comparison. As well as Yuzo and company did with that audio chip, all the scratchy, AM sounding audio, didn't do it any favors. Also, Genesis could only put 64 colors on the screen simultaneously. So, it's really hard for it to compete from a color standpoint. Having said that, there are still some very colorful games on the Genesis, especially if you see them on a RGB monitor.

[Gentlegamer]

I don't think it's "aged" any worse than SNES. You're just reading your own [changed] preferences into it.

I had SNES since launch despite a prior love affair with wanting Genesis (the Genesis Does campaign had me convinced), but Genesis was popular and I had friends with it or both. I definitely played more SNES, and my later years in high school, late 94 through 96, I was somewhat of a lapsed gamer.

The point is, I keep discovering Genesis games from that period that are awesome that I never played and I find them no less fun or impressive to my classic gaming sensibilities than SNES games.

I do think that a lot of Genesis sound effects are an 'acquired taste' when they use FM instead of PSG. They gave birth to the muffled robot fart meme Sega fans hate, and if you never had that taste, experiencing them now may be off putting.

[Alianger]

But now, while I still feel that way about the NES, I don't feel that way about the Mega Drive anymore... The SNES just seems like it is the better looking and sounding console now compared to the SEGA Genesis. I know each console has its different strengths, weaknesses, and abilities, but it doesn't seem the Genesis's library has aged well. Yes, the games in general seem to run faster with a higher frame-rate on the old SEGA compared to the Super Nintendo, but the quality of the audiovisual experience isn't there. The color palette is so much smaller and there is a lot of dithering in the graphics. And the sound chip doesn't put out a smooth, pleasant set of sounds and music. I regularly play the games in the emulated SEGA game collection on Steam (Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection is its name on consoles.) and watch YouTube videos of other Genny games played on original hardware, and they just don't hold up to the SNES's stuff.

I don't know why I think this way now. Perhaps it is due to overexposure to Genesis games versus not as much time spent with SNES games, and this is coloring my impression? Have you noticed a shift in your opinion too?

So why do you still feel that way about the NES? The palette is even smaller, and the sound is less advanced (with a few exceptions using expanded sound hardware).

Part of your problem seems to be emulation. Dithering wasn't really noticeable with older TVs and cables, and the more harsh elements of the FM sounds are smoothened out a little bit on real hardware. Comparing rhw recordings and emulation, only Regen and Kega Fusion with certain options turned on sound pretty much like the real thing; there's usually less bass and more distortion/abrasiveness in emulation, and sometimes incorrect (as in wrong pitch or timbre) sounds are played as well. However since the chip is basically a primitive FM synth (+ the PSG chip from the Master System) the music will tend to sound pretty samey and have trouble emulating some acoustic instruments. There's usually one channel used for samples but rarely anything other than percussion and the quality is fairly low.

SNES did often sound muffled/muted, and obviously still does for many of its games. The limited way it deals with samples also makes a lot of music tracks sound slightly out of tune and/or kind of unexpressive and robotic. From what I've read, emulation tends to actually improve on the SNES's sound, as opposed to the MD/GEN. But I haven't seen any side by side comparisons.
That said, it's rare for SNES or even NES games to sound as grating as the worst sounding MD/GEN games do (X-Men and Sonic Spinball come to mind).

It's a bit contradictory to say that the MD has an overall advantage (framerate and speed) but then say that "the quality of the audiovisual experience" isn't there compared to the SNES. But anyway, nearly all of this comes down to taste in the end (actually the SCD wins for audio ;)).
I personally prefer MD (as well as NES, TG16 and GB) music to SNES music for the most part, but when it comes to the games I can't really pick a favorite between the two.

[Tron 2.0]

I think the genesis has aged fine unless you're looking at it's early release.Still it's a matter of preference for what you grow up on,when it comes to that era of gaming.These days i don't see the snes being better then the genesis.For the genesis i like it for it's arcade style of gaming and the snes for it's platformers and rpgs.Still playing the genesis emulated is not the best way to experience the console.

[Atarileaf]

I've always been more of a Genesis fan. I have an SNES and enjoy it but I have more games I love on the Genesis than the SNES.

I'm not sure either has aged poorly, it all comes down to taste and if you love and play games on any console they will have aged well to you.

[Tanooki]

In our home I had the SNES and he had the Gen so I have experience with both, later in the late 90s I got one too. The thing is I think the issue is not over or under exposure to them but the NOW.

Lets look at this time now and factor in how you feel the NES isnt played out either. All these modern so called retro indie games seem to try and match the luster of the NES and either the SNES or the Amiga/90s PC style stuff to be cool and retro both in visuals and audio. The Genesis even in the day may have looked sharp but it lacked some basic talents like transparencies or even enough colors on screen to match 256 VGA output like SNES can. The audio was a borrowed earlier arcade synth chip which sounds tinny, rough, mechanical almost while the SNES relied on nearly CD quality output and sound samples which again fits more withthe now. The style of the Gen is seen and heard by enough as out dated.

It comes down to preference but those making games that wannabe old seem to also prefer the nonGenesis look of things and go with the NES, SNES or Amiga/PC style of stuff.

[goldenband]

It's odd to me that several people have said the early Genesis library has aged poorly. To me, it's the late library that sometimes doesn't hold up well, i.e. lots of games (especially Western-developed ones) with digitized graphics that don't play well with the system's relatively low color count, or lazy ports from the SNES. Doom Troopers, X-Perts, Time Killers, Batman Forever...

So many of those cardboard box releases are ugly and don't play well, whereas the early library is full of classics, especially by the end of 1990. Even duds like Osomatsu-Kun look and sound pretty decent. And the sample quality in games like Space Harrier II is surprisingly good.

For me, the problem with the SNES is that I played a lot of the best games as a kid, and I'm not really one to replay games a lot. Sometimes I enjoy the gauzy, pastoral feeling of the system a lot; sometimes I'm in the mood for something crisper and brighter. And I can't stand the SNES packaging, nor the high prices these days.

[Tanooki]

I think you're right, and I think they're right too. The Genesis stuff, the ones that age best are those in the middle for the most part. The early stuff is just terrible for the most part for the reasons listed, and then as you well put it, the late stuff trying to respond to Nintendo and the DKC wave of style going with the digitized graphics and the harder core audio just comes off bad. You have the low color/high detail stuff kind of like how the ACM DKC games look like crap on GB and GBC, and then finally at that later time the Genesis (not the SNES for once) was getting the halfassed ports to make some extra cash so those kind of suck too. It's the middle ground, and also those PC ports like star control and dune that come off very very nice, and of course virtua racing that $100 game was awesome for the system too but it got spanked because of the price vs the $50 FX chip in Starfox, etc.

I don't think price is relevant to the discussion too. Yes anything known for quality or being legit/supposedly rare is getting dicey now, but there's always everdrives and rom+emulators too even on a phone or tablet.

[HardcoreOtaku]

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[celerystalker]

I'm not a fan at all of the Mega Drive (Genesis) but back when it was first released I imported one from Hong Kong and I feel its best games were released early in it's life time. Games like Super Shinobi, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Strider etc.. were the best games for the system.

I very much agree with this. The arcade ports and games made in that style represent the Genesis at its best. Sega just focused so much on image in the '90s is their western development and advertising, and that stuff just feels dated to me now. People always joke about '90s 'tude, and the Genesis has that stink on it moreso than the other consoles of the time (but don't think I don't remember Stone Protectors, SNES...) Sega was always trying to push the envelope, and a lot of that sentiment puts a pretty rigid time stamp on things, whereas Mario, Metroid, Zelda, etc. don't feel as much like they belong to one decade.

This is just a personal thing, too, but to me Genesis graphics always seem to have a noticeable verticality to them. I don't mean bars like a top loader NES, but look at Sonic, and how the backgrounds have a lot of vetical lines in the grass, the water... I can't help but see the vertical lines in most Genesis games (Konami stuff looks pretty great). I don't know if it's due to higher resolution and I was more used to the SNES/TG16 stretch or what, but it makes a lot of Genesis stuff look grainy to me.

[Rickstilwell1]

I wouldn't say it has aged worse at all. Back in the day I felt like both systems (Genesis and SNES) gave me a different experience due to all the exclusive games between the two. Usually I preferred the SNES version when the level design was identical, but when games had same titles with different games or level designs, I just had to have them both. I've never really played games for the graphics or sound either. I got mostly NES games alongside these two and didn't mind jumping back and forth from the polished Sonic 3 and Donkey Kong Country 3 to the blocky Dragon Warrior.

On the Genesis I remember being pretty amazed by Sonic 3D Blast. My eyes got a little sore and puffy the first time I played it because I really stared at it. The visuals really popped out at me. Last night I fired up Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on my best, brightest CRT since I'm moving in with my girlfriend and had to pick which CRT I wanted to bring first and which I will put in storage till we get another place, and the colors were so good and bright. The music sounds so much better through Genesis 1's headphone jack and the video is much cleaner through composite than RF. For old TV's that only take RF, the video stability and colors even look better by outputting composite from the system and passing that through a composite to RF converter (such as a VCR) then running that to the TV. But on newer TVs it makes an even bigger difference.

I noticed with the Genesis 2, the 32X cleans up the image a little bit and the Sega CD improves the sound by providing stereo.

I did get double the SNES games and triple the NES games over the Genesis growing up but the ones I did have are still awesome and I've discovered many great ones as an adult. I'm doing the same on those other consoles too though.

[Flojomojo]

What a great thread, lots of good opinion here. I don't think it's aged any worse than SNES when you realize that for most people, both 16-bit systems are ancient classic games, not terribly far removed in time from the Atari VCS and Intellivision when you consider it's 25 years since the Genesis came out but only a little more than a decade between A2600 and the MegaDrive.

[Greg2600]

SNES had a lot more of what I would call, well-formed games. Genesis did better with arcade conversions, and somewhat on licensed titles. Genesis was also far heavier into ports from computer systems/franchises. EA Genesis-only games were terrific as well. I always loved the Genesis controller, but often I found games were a bit more difficult than SNES. The only thing that has aged poorly to me is the sound. That tinny synthy sound is pretty lousy compared to SNES.

[Steven]

Good question Nz, and I enjoyed the responses as well. It's all opinion for sure, but to me the SNES has always been my preferred 16-bit system. That's not to say I dislike the Genesis; I got plenty of love for it and it's definitely in my top 5 list, but I've just always enjoyed the SNES that much more.

I can't speak personally to whether the Genesis has aged worse or better, but IMO the SNES' library (the majority of them anyway) have aged like fine wine. Of course, stuff like StarFox not so much but more have aged well than not.

[Steven]

Sega just focused so much on image in the '90s is their western development and advertising, and that stuff just feels dated to me now. People always joke about '90s 'tude, and the Genesis has that stink on it moreso than the other consoles of the time (but don't think I don't remember Stone Protectors, SNES...)

LOL. Yup, and don't forget B.O.B., Rocky Rodent and Radical Rex.


This is just a personal thing, too, but to me Genesis graphics always seem to have a noticeable verticality to them. I don't mean bars like a top loader NES, but look at Sonic, and how the backgrounds have a lot of vetical lines in the grass, the water... I can't help but see the vertical lines in most Genesis games (Konami stuff looks pretty great). I don't know if it's due to higher resolution and I was more used to the SNES/TG16 stretch or what, but it makes a lot of Genesis stuff look grainy to me.

Agreed with this. Many Genesis games to me seem to be a fair bit on the grainier side than SNES games. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can def. be a personal preference.

[retroguy]

While I have both systems and enjoy them both greatly, I have a lot more fondness for the Genesis than the SNES purely because I played it more growing up. Bad sound chip or no bad sound chip, I can't help getting a smile on my face when I hear the main theme from the first X-Men game because it brings back memories of playing it with my best friend when we were both huge fans of the cartoon series back in the day. Nostalgia counts for a lot.

[Bloodreign]

In my eyes the games have held up just as well as the SNES. The fun factor hasn't disappeared, the games still look nice (both systems had their fair share of garbage titles), sound isn't an issue with all games, some have mighty nice sounding music and voices (Pulseman, Darius II, Sailor Moon, Castle of Illusion and World of Illusion, Phantasy Star IV, Strider, Valis 1 and Valis 3). And I was not a fan of the Genesis back in the 90's until 1998, when I finally caved in, bought my first Model 2 Genesis, got some games, sat down, and gave the system a chance to impress me. The first 2 games I bought were Castlevania Bloodlines and Contra Hard Corp, a hell of a way to launch yourself into a system's lineup.

The Genesis may not be everyone's cup of tea, but you'll have people on the other side of the fence about the SNES. Myself, I don't care, both systems have a nice assortment of games I love.

[Alianger]

@Tanooki: A SNES game with actual CD quality audio (Zelda 3, and this only works in certain emulators fyi) is now a possibility and works well as a reality check:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v788KslHvbU

I probably would've agreed back in the day though, SNES almost felt like a generational leap to me when I first got it, having played MD/GEN since '89 or '90.


It's odd to me that several people have said the early Genesis library has aged poorly. To me, it's the late library that sometimes doesn't hold up well, i.e. lots of games (especially Western-developed ones) with digitized graphics that don't play well with the system's relatively low color count, or lazy ports from the SNES. Doom Troopers, X-Perts, Time Killers, Batman Forever...


Sure, but this is probably true for all popular systems. The fact remains that if you want to see limit pushing MD games then there are more of them from the console's later days than its early days.

I actually went and made a list yesterday and hade no trouble coming up with a bunch of impressive/high quality games from 1993 onwards;
1993 - Ranger X, Gunstar Heroes, F1, Aladdin, Rocket Knight Adventures, Shinobi 3, Street Fighter II SCE, Flashback, Dune II, Pirates! Gold, NBA Jam, Splatterhouse 3, Battle Mania 2, Eliminate Down, Wiz 'n Liz, Columns 3, General Chaos, Blades of Vengeance, Lost Vikings, NHL 94, Toejam & Earl 2,
1994 - Panorama Cotton, Red Zone, Dynamite Headdy, Ecco: Tides of Time, Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen, Monster World IV, Crusader of Centy, Beyond Oasis, Contra: Hard Corps, Castlevania: Bloodlines, Super Street Fighter II, Pulseman, Samurai Shodown, Shining Force 2, PSIV, Bare Knuckle 3, Robocop vs. Terminator, Lion King, EWJ, NHL 95
1995 - Alien Soldier, Adventures of Batman & Robin, Vectorman, Ristar, Mega Turrican, NHL 96, Comix Zone, Mickey Mania, EWJ2, Light Crusader, Micro Machines '96, X-Men 2, Scooby-Doo Mystery, Donald in Maui Mallard
1996 - Toy Story (150+ colors in stills, FPS level), Sonic 3D Blast
1997 - Jurassic Park: Lost World (80+ colors in-game, neat effects in some stages)
2010 - Pier Solar

[Daria]

I still prefer my Genesis. :P

[Tanooki]

@Tanooki: A SNES game with actual CD quality audio (Zelda 3, and this only works in certain emulators fyi) is now a possibility and works well as a reality check:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v788KslHvbU

I probably would've agreed back in the day though, SNES almost felt like a generational leap to me when I first got it, having played MD/GEN since '89 or '90.


I'm aware of that amazing work. It's a true taste of what could have been given Nintendo hadn't cut off Sony with the CD system when they tried to steal all the licensing profits. When I was speaking of the audio for the SNES the period was well in my head. My brother was all ADHD with the Sega Genesis talking about how shitty the NES was and how bad it sucked and he'd never use it again as early as 1990. He got the sega, never turned it on again(NES) for as long as I can remember. Eventually I tired of his shit talking and made him a super lowball offer and bought his games off him and then just claimed overship over anything we co-owned that day. I was around that thing even if I didn't use it (spite) well into the later 90s and it never did it for me, but I did see how nice it could get. The audio always bothered me as it sounded f'ng terrible as I was used to the NES, the Sound Blaster Pro(then 16) in my PC, and the SNES. The Genesis sounded like a shitty second rate common arcade game with bad audio to me with some shimmering good moments so really it sounds even worse now. Liking the NES I could deal with the dithering and lower colors but the audio was grating, so when the SNES popped up doing 33khz audio with all sampled orchetrated sound effects, and that my first purchase was both ActRaiser and Gradius III weeks after the launch date and taking SMW down, I saw nothing of much value in the Sega audio. ActRaiser has some sampled symphony music for overworld tunes on the map among some other amazing tracks and the wide clean variety in Gradius III was just as crazy too.

[MetalFRO]

As much as I respect Nintendo and what they did with the SNES, and what a huge leap it was from the NES, I have been, and likely will remain, a Genesis guy. I don't think either system has aged "worse" than the other, though there are aspects of each that have aged worse. The slowdown present in a number of SNES games certainly shows the system's under-powered nature in that respect, while the aforementioned sound effects issues in some Genesis games definitely show either a limit to the hardware, or more likely, a lack of knowledge of how to use it properly. Voices in Genesis games are often cited as a weakness, and I'd agree. I am one who prefers most game music on the Genesis (assuming it's well composed and executed) to the SNES, in part because I really dislike most MIDI-based sound, which the SNES was. There are exceptions, like the Street Fighter 2 games, but by and large, I prefer the way the Genesis sounds when it comes to music, even in early soundtracks like Altered Beast. It has a more "pure" chiptune feel to it, much like the NES. Some developers could work wonders with the sound chip, much like what Konami, Capcom, and especially Sunsoft did with the NES.

Having said that, as has been mentioned, a lot of it comes down to the game library, and it's very preferential. I'm not a big RPG guy, though I'd like to be, but I just don't have the time, and never really did as a kid. Pick up and play games, arcade ports, action titles, etc. were particularly strong on the Genesis, so its library of games suits me quite well. The SNES was a bit heavier on RPG's, slightly more open-ended titles, etc. and while some of those are my cup of tea, I can't say that a large percentage of the library is ever something I would collect and play on a regular basis. So my bias is toward the Genesis, but I understand why some lean one way or another.

[Flojomojo]

I actually went and made a list yesterday and hade no trouble coming up with a bunch of impressive/high quality games from 1993 onwards;
1993 - Ranger X, Gunstar Heroes, F1, Aladdin, Rocket Knight Adventures, Shinobi 3, Street Fighter II SCE, Flashback, Dune II, Pirates! Gold, NBA Jam, Splatterhouse 3, Battle Mania 2, Eliminate Down, Wiz 'n Liz, Columns 3, General Chaos, Blades of Vengeance, Lost Vikings, NHL 94, Toejam & Earl 2,
1994 - Panorama Cotton, Red Zone, Dynamite Headdy, Ecco: Tides of Time, Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen, Monster World IV, Crusader of Centy, Beyond Oasis, Contra: Hard Corps, Castlevania: Bloodlines, Super Street Fighter II, Pulseman, Samurai Shodown, Shining Force 2, PSIV, Bare Knuckle 3, Robocop vs. Terminator, Lion King, EWJ, NHL 95
1995 - Alien Soldier, Adventures of Batman & Robin, Vectorman, Ristar, Mega Turrican, NHL 96, Comix Zone, Mickey Mania, EWJ2, Light Crusader, Micro Machines '96, X-Men 2, Scooby-Doo Mystery, Donald in Maui Mallard
1996 - Toy Story (150+ colors in stills, FPS level), Sonic 3D Blast
1997 - Jurassic Park: Lost World (80+ colors in-game, neat effects in some stages)
2010 - Pier Solar

A good list, well done.

A counterpoint to this would be a list of all the crappy cross-platform shovelware that appeared on both SNES and Genesis. It would be a very long list, possibly a majority of each system's catalog. Such a list would suggest that the machines are more alike than different. I see the differences between SNES and Genesis as similar to that of PS3 vs XB360. From the outside, they appear more similar than different. Looks like someone is working on something like this. http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?149343-Games-better-on-Genesis-SNES

In the meantime, here are some comparisons of the same games on the two different systems. http://www.retro-sanctuary.com/Comparisons%20Main.html

[Gameguy]

It's odd to me that several people have said the early Genesis library has aged poorly. To me, it's the late library that sometimes doesn't hold up well, i.e. lots of games (especially Western-developed ones) with digitized graphics that don't play well with the system's relatively low color count, or lazy ports from the SNES. Doom Troopers, X-Perts, Time Killers, Batman Forever...
It depends on which games you're focusing on. When most people think of early Genesis games they usually think of Altered Beast or licensed games like Tommy Lasorda Baseball, Arnold Palmer's Tournament Golf, Pat Riley Basketball, Buster Douglas Knockout Boxing, etc. Other forgettable early games include Super Hydlide, Sword of Vermilion, and Last Battle.

Really there's good games with both early and late releases. People focus on the later games as their favourites so they tend to ignore the lousy ones from that time. Gunstar Heroes, Earthworm Jim, Ristar, Beyond Oasis, Phantasy Star IV, and Dynamite Headdy being examples of the more memorable games. It's not just about good games, but more memorable titles that people remember. I like Bonanza Bros but most people just don't remember it, plenty of good games are like that.

Another good game is Mickey Mania. It came out on the Genesis in 1994 and was later ported to other systems including the SNES. The SNES version is the worst port of the game and pretty terrible to play, somehow it has worse music, is missing levels, and has load times which weren't in the Genesis version. Overall this is how I feel with most cross-platform games of the time, they usually play better on the Genesis. Even with games like The Lion King the controls feel better on the Genesis. Comparing Buster's Hidden Treasure with Buster Breaks Loose! the Genesis game is the one with better music.

Someone else mentioned transparency effects. The Genesis used dithering to have transparency effects, a good example of this is with the first Sonic the Hedgehog. Dithering might be why people complain about a grainy look to the games, but it also depends on what hookups you use to play the games as it's meant to blend together with composite or RF. I feel a big part of criticism towards the sound quality has to do with emulation. I saw someone post a video on youtube to complain about the Genesis sound quality and many of the examples used were strictly caused by the emulator, I had those same games and on an actual Genesis those problems just didn't occur. All of the comments for that video agreed on how terrible the sound was while saying the SNES has much higher quality, yet nobody pointed out that the problems were caused by poor emulation. It's like most people never played the games on an actual console so they didn't notice. It was really bad so it should have been obvious.

[Nathan Dunsmore]

I actually went and made a list yesterday and hade no trouble coming up with a bunch of impressive/high quality games from 1993 onwards;
1993 - Ranger X, Gunstar Heroes, F1, Aladdin, Rocket Knight Adventures, Shinobi 3, Street Fighter II SCE, Flashback, Dune II, Pirates! Gold, NBA Jam, Splatterhouse 3, Battle Mania 2, Eliminate Down, Wiz 'n Liz, Columns 3, General Chaos, Blades of Vengeance, Lost Vikings, NHL 94, Toejam & Earl 2,
1994 - Panorama Cotton, Red Zone, Dynamite Headdy, Ecco: Tides of Time, Yu Yu Hakusho: Makyo Toitsusen, Monster World IV, Crusader of Centy, Beyond Oasis, Contra: Hard Corps, Castlevania: Bloodlines, Super Street Fighter II, Pulseman, Samurai Shodown, Shining Force 2, PSIV, Bare Knuckle 3, Robocop vs. Terminator, Lion King, EWJ, NHL 95
1995 - Alien Soldier, Adventures of Batman & Robin, Vectorman, Ristar, Mega Turrican, NHL 96, Comix Zone, Mickey Mania, EWJ2, Light Crusader, Micro Machines '96, X-Men 2, Scooby-Doo Mystery, Donald in Maui Mallard
1996 - Toy Story (150+ colors in stills, FPS level), Sonic 3D Blast
1997 - Jurassic Park: Lost World (80+ colors in-game, neat effects in some stages)
2010 - Pier Solar

I'll add Pocahontas to 1996. One of the last great Disney games from that era. Gorgeous.

[drunk3nj3sus]

I think a lot of it is subconscious because the SNES' controller and sound were basically the prototype for future systems, so therefore it seems to be more modern than it is.

Most of the systems that followed the SNES have a very similar controller layout, while I can't really think of any newer controllers with a circular d-pad or 3 main face buttons. The sega controller works just as well but the SNES clearly has a better design.

While the snes had at max about 1/60th of the amount of the storage space of a cd it's often said to have near "cd quality" sound which isn't the case because cd quality music didn't really happen regularly till dvds were the standard(it's hard to have a full cd soundtrack when it takes up so much space on a cd) but using arrangements consisting of samples from real instruments is still the technique used today via software or hardware romplers. The Genesis was probably the last home console that used a built in synthesizer for most of its sounds. The SNES and Genesis both excel at good compositions with simple instrument sounds complex sounds like a realistic piano, violin, or electric guitar sound pretty terrible on both.

Functionally good games from both systems are both at a similar level of quality in most aspects. The FM sound of the Genesis can be offputting in some cases but if it's programmed well I find it usually more enjoyable to listen to than really lo-fi instrument samples from the SNES.

[FieryReign]

The good old Genny has aged just as well as SNES. All this other talk is nonsense. It's 2015 and Snes vs. Genesis topics still get people riled up. Just another Nintendo fanboy topic I suppose. Isn't there another topic saying the same thing about the SMS?

I just roll my eyes when I hear another person claim that the Genesis soundchip was weak. Where were you in 89-90 when the Genesis dropped? It was amazing for the time, did you really expect them to have full cd quality sound in a 1989 videogame system?

It's like the haters only focus on the games with poor music and sound. It's all about who programmed it. Ever heard the Adventures of Batman and Robin soundtrack? It fucking pounds your stereo system and I have yet to hear a Snes game that can compare. Strider, Vectorman, Castlevania, Gleylancer, Thunderforce 3, Crackdown, the list goes on. Busting on the Mega Drive soundchip is played out and cliche. Come up with something better.

[WCP]

I just roll my eyes when I hear another person claim that the Genesis soundchip was weak. Where were you in 89-90 when the Genesis dropped? It was amazing for the time, did you really expect them to have full cd quality sound in a 1989 videogame system?



Saying the Genesis had a weak sound chip, and saying the Genesis had bad music are two different things.

I was there in 1989 and 1990. I bought my Genesis about a year after it launched, in mid August 1990 when Pat Riley Basketball came out. I remember being very impressed with the bass response in certain Genesis games back then, but I still remember the scratchy FM sound as well. I had bought a TurboGrafx-16 in December of 1989, and had been playing the Turbo for about 8 months before I got my Genesis.

The difference between the two was pretty apparent. The Turbo might not have had all the various sound channels and whatnot, but the sound the Turbo put out was clear and crisp. No raspy FM scratchiness to it.

The Genesis still had some absolutely spectacular soundtracks on it's games, but I think it was "IN SPITE OF" the lackluster sound chip. The composers were able to work around it's weaknesses, and try to do the best they could, and sometimes their efforts were truly amazing.

[goldenband]

Sure, but this is probably true for all popular systems.

Yes and no. I think there's something specific about what happened with the Genesis at that point in time. That low color count really affected its ability to graphically compete at a time when digitized graphics were very fashionable, and many releases were cross-platform with the SNES. The solution they used -- lots of dithering -- worked OK on blurry RF connections, but doesn't always come off well today.

Same issue with the Sega CD -- I can't tell you how many complaints I read about the system's grainy FMV back in the day. Once the initial wow factor faded, the color limit took a real toll on the system's credibility.


The fact remains that if you want to see limit pushing MD games then there are more of them from the console's later days than its early days.

Well, sure, though I don't necessarily see "limit pushing" as a positive in and of itself.


I actually went and made a list yesterday and hade no trouble coming up with a bunch of impressive/high quality games from 1993 onwards;

There are some great games on that list, but almost every game you name was tailored specifically for the Genesis.

My point (related to Flojomojo's post, below) isn't that the late library is bad -- there are tons of games I really like from that era, e.g. Light Crusader -- but that it's heavily populated by rushed cross-platform releases and/or games that have a Mortal Kombat-influenced presentation, and in a lot of cases the Genesis doesn't come off well as a result.

BTW I wouldn't say the Genesis's "late" era -- which is what I was referencing -- begins until late 1994/early 1995, myself, when the PlayStation and Saturn were coming on the scene. Gunstar Heroes is more the tail end of the Genesis's middle period, which I'd say ran from mid-1990 through mid-1993. Mid-1993 through mid-1994 was a weird transitional period, with the 3DO and Jaguar throwing their hats in the ring, and a lot of uncertainty about where the industry was headed next.


A counterpoint to this would be a list of all the crappy cross-platform shovelware that appeared on both SNES and Genesis. It would be a very long list, possibly a majority of each system's catalog.

This is a big part of what I had in mind, and I've actually spent a fair bit of time playing these games (partly because of the effort to beat the Genesis library over at Sega-16). They factor in heavily to the later release library starting around 1993, and their presence really takes a toll. They're usually rushed, were frequently designed for the SNES, and only ported to the Genesis as a kind of afterthought.

The way it often breaks down is that the SNES versions suffer from slowdown, while the Genesis versions play more smoothly but look less attractive on first sight due to the low color count. Plus they often have lazy soundtracks (GEMS or otherwise), to make matters worse.


From the outside, they appear more similar than different. Looks like someone is working on something like this. http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?149343-Games-better-on-Genesis-SNES

In the meantime, here are some comparisons of the same games on the two different systems. http://www.retro-sanctuary.com/Comparisons%20Main.html

There's also a similar effort at Racketboy, and one at Sega-16:

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?19078-Genesis-vs-SNES-Game-by-game-comparisons-repost-of-lost-thread


Other forgettable early games include Super Hydlide, Sword of Vermilion, and Last Battle.

Hey, I liked Super Hydlide a lot! Can't argue with the other two, though.


Really there's good games with both early and late releases. People focus on the later games as their favourites so they tend to ignore the lousy ones from that time. Gunstar Heroes, Earthworm Jim, Ristar, Beyond Oasis, Phantasy Star IV, and Dynamite Headdy being examples of the more memorable games. It's not just about good games, but more memorable titles that people remember. I like Bonanza Bros but most people just don't remember it, plenty of good games are like that.

I enjoyed Bonanza Bros. as well -- fun, clever game. FWIW my preferred era of the Genesis is probably 1990-1993. Some of my favorites are Gain Ground, Jewel Master, Shining in the Darkness, Faery Tale Adventure, etc.

OTOH I wasn't a fan at all of Earthworm Jim, or a lot of those later 16-bit platformers and run-'n'-guns. I appreciate that they push the hardware and have attractive animation, but I find that the stage design lacks clarity and feels "mushy" and deeply unintuitive. I don't like being unable to immediately tell the difference between background and foreground elements, or having any ambiguity about what does or doesn't constitute a platform.


I saw someone post a video on youtube to complain about the Genesis sound quality and many of the examples used were strictly caused by the emulator, I had those same games and on an actual Genesis those problems just didn't occur. All of the comments for that video agreed on how terrible the sound was while saying the SNES has much higher quality, yet nobody pointed out that the problems were caused by poor emulation. It's like most people never played the games on an actual console so they didn't notice. It was really bad so it should have been obvious.

A sad truth is that emulation tends to flatter the SNES sound hardware (making it sound brighter and crisper than it ever was) and doesn't do full justice to the Genesis. The limitations of the Model 2 audio hardware make matters worse; a nice Model 1 really sounds damn good, but most people don't have one of those.

The Genesis at its best sounds great; the SNES at its best sounds great. They're different from each other and have different strengths, but neither one is really "better", any more than a rock band is "better" than an orchestra.

[Eternal Champion]

I was really into Genesis in the early 90s, got SNES in late 1994...
I loved all the arcade-style action games and shooters - Genesis is the 16-bit king of shmups and side-scrolling brawlers and action games (Gunstar, Shinobi, the Streets of Rage series).
Later in life, though, I've come to lament that Genesis doesn't have anything comparable to Zelda and Metroid - deep action/adventure games.

As for sound...I just have a soft spot for that FM Genesis sound. The sampled sound on the SNES just doesn't sound as cool to me. Genesis sounds like an analog synth - Streets of Rage (especially the alien lair in II) hard techno, Thunder Force II + III, Phantasy Star IV (I regret selling that) sound more awesome (especially on a real stereo, let me tell you) than SNES. Just my opinion, of course.

[Tanooki]

It's taste I know, but it always has confused me when people would say the Genesis audio was superior or started talking up FM sound. That same chip was used in a lot of solid arcade games and they didn't have that tinny gravely buzzy audio of the Genesis and those arcade games had a clearer voice too for talking samples and the like so it always felt like an apologists excuse to me. I'm not dinging the system really, it had some nice games as I've had one or the Nomad for quite a few years, but I just feel time has not been on its side, especially in the audio department by far. I don't understand why someone would also feel the snes sound was muffled. Perhaps you used a bad tv in the day, I ran mine through a pioneer receiver and a pair of good speakers. At least you rarely see a sane argument how the Genesis bad better visuals since it couldn't even pull off a proper transparency, but it did handle large fluid sprites well (like Aladdin.)

[FieryReign]

It's retarded comparing specs on a console that was released in 89 to a system that came out a full 2 years later. Of course the Snes is going to have better specs(aside from the cpu speed), technology advances. That's how shit works. I like both, saying one aged better than the other is just your nostalgic preferences talking.

I can pickup and play a Genny shooter and have fun instantly or I can play a Snes rpg and be bored to tears. It's just your preference, really.

[Eternal Champion]

It's retarded comparing specs on a console that was released in 89 to a system that came out a full 2 years later. Of course the Snes is going to have better specs(aside from the cpu speed), technology advances. That's how shit works. I like both, saying one aged better than the other is just your nostalgic preferences talking.

I can pickup and play a Genny shooter and have fun instantly or I can play a Snes rpg and be bored to tears. It's just your preference, really.
:) succinctly said!

[goldenband]

I don't understand why someone would also feel the snes sound was muffled. Perhaps you used a bad tv in the day, I ran mine through a pioneer receiver and a pair of good speakers.

The SNES output uses interpolation and a low-pass filter to hide some of the artifacting/aliasing from the ADPCM compression. I don't know what the exact frequency cutoff is, but it's well below the top end of human hearing. And since the SNES uses a 32kHz sampling rate (I think it's actually 32040 Hz IIRC), the Nyquist theorem says it can't produce anything over 16kHz anyway.

Of course, for those of us who've abused our ears, we can't hear over 16kHz anyway. :p Mine can't do much over 16-17kHz. But there's no denying that the Genesis has a much stronger high end, especially a good Model 1 or a Nomad (the sound on those is very good). BTW I do my gaming over a Pioneer amp with good speakers, and the difference is definitely audible.

[celerystalker]

It's retarded comparing specs on a console that was released in 89 to a system that came out a full 2 years later. Of course the Snes is going to have better specs(aside from the cpu speed), technology advances. That's how shit works. I like both, saying one aged better than the other is just your nostalgic preferences talking.

I can pickup and play a Genny shooter and have fun instantly or I can play a Snes rpg and be bored to tears. It's just your preference, really.

It didn't seem in the original post to be about comparing specs or hardware; those aspects of the thread have been tangeantal to the question of if other peoples' personal experiences have caused them to view one library differently over the years by comparison to its most obvious peer. It's a subjective question to begin with, not a console war topic.

Seriously, though... if you like shooters, the 16-bit choice is TG-16. SNES and Genesis lag behind in that department.

[BlastProcessing402]

It depends on which games you're focusing on. When most people think of early Genesis games they usually think of Altered Beast or licensed games like Tommy Lasorda Baseball, Arnold Palmer's Tournament Golf, Pat Riley Basketball, Buster Douglas Knockout Boxing, etc. Other forgettable early games include Super Hydlide, Sword of Vermilion, and Last Battle.

Super Hydlide has some of the best music on the Genesis, and it's very unique sounding and I doubt you could get anything to sound like it on a Super Nintendo. Graphically it's pretty dire, admittedly, but it's a really underrated game, if you take the time to learn to play it right.

[Alianger]

Edit: On the topic of sound hardware, it'd be interesting to hear a serious effort in emulating a MD/GEN soundtrack to 100% or close using the SNES sound chip (not just someone using SNES samples in FL studio or something).

And I know I said the SNES felt like a generational leap back in the day, but I completely forgot about the Amiga which I played somewhat frequently at a relative's house. I can totally see how someone who owned one of those would've been less impressed with how the SNES sounded even back then. This series of comparison vids is a fun listen if you have the time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y7w40d9Nqw


"Yes and no. I think there's something specific about what happened with the Genesis at that point in time.
That low color count really affected its ability to graphically compete at a time when digitized graphics were very fashionable,
and many releases were cross-platform with the SNES. The solution they used -- lots of dithering -- worked OK on blurry RF connections,
but doesn't always come off well today."

Guess I misinterpreted you a bit there, however I don't think those kinds of games came close to dominating the market or defining the late MD/GEN library and as I tried to show, you still have a ton of great games to play from that period.
Off the top of my head I would've recalled MK and Road Rash, maybe one of the games you mentioned (I don't think they were even released here in Europe), maybe some FMV stuff for the SCD, but almost nothing else.
It might've been more of a problem before the internet and when you bought games you'd never heard anything about based more on marketing or hype, but not now.

"Well, sure, though I don't necessarily see "limit pushing" as a positive in and of itself."

If you'd been focusing on gameplay I'd have replied in a different way, but most of the games listed there I do think are great as _games_, not just technical showcases.


"Same issue with the Sega CD -- I can't tell you how many complaints I read about the system's grainy FMV back in the day.
Once the initial wow factor faded, the color limit took a real toll on the system's credibility."

I think you're putting too much weight on color count. It's more that those FMV titles were shallow and crappy as games.
But among other things, that was a bad move for the SCD/GEN, so I don't disagree with you.
Still there are enough good games for it to make even the SCD worthwhile and it's no longer hard to find out which ones they are.


"BTW I wouldn't say the Genesis's "late" era -- which is what I was referencing -- begins until late 1994/early 1995..."

OK, well go ahead and shave off half of 1993 if you want. I think that would make more sense from a european perspective though, since it debuted in 1990 here.
Personally I would set the beginning point of the middle era as the release date of Sonic 1, when it started getting much more popular, got better third party support, and was no longer only about arcade ports, shooters and sports.


This is a big part of what I had in mind, and I've actually spent a fair bit of time playing these games (partly because of the effort to beat the Genesis library over at Sega-16).

I think it's an interesting project, but as I said I don't think you'd have a better time doing that with other systems.


"The way it often breaks down is that the SNES versions suffer from slowdown, while the Genesis versions play more smoothly but look less attractive
on first sight due to the low color count. Plus they often have lazy soundtracks (GEMS or otherwise), to make matters worse."

So to conclude, go to the MD/GEN if you want to play these games, or look at the SNES versions on YT (or in screenshots when there's a lot of slowdown) to watch them being played with slightly to moderately better graphics and sound.

j/k with that last one :)

[Gentlegamer]

I was there in 1989 and 1990. I bought my Genesis about a year after it launched, in mid August 1990 when Pat Riley Basketball came out. I remember being very impressed with the bass response in certain Genesis games back then,

My friend and I had this reaction to Shadow Dancer. It had some groovy tunes with nice bass that we really liked.

Then there's Road Rash, which has that twangy FM music that's quite distinct that I like, but I can see valid criticism of it, much like the overall game.

Aside from music composition, where the FM hurt Genesis most was sound effects. That's where I hear most of the 'robot farts' people talk about.

[Alianger]

An odd thing about the Road Rash OST is that it uses less than half the MD's sound chip for its in-game tracks (3 out of 6 FM channels, no PSG, no drum samples).

Here's a remaster of one track I did as an experiment a while back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA8oXy_lRl4

[WCP]

One buddy of mine talks a lot of smack about the SNES sound having WAY too much echo effect in almost everything.


At first, I thought he was totally nuts, and although I knew that some SNES games used that echo effect quite a bit, he was dramatically overstating it. Of course, now when I play random SNES games I'm noticing the echo effect with great regularity, so I have to kind of begrudgingly agree with him to a slight degree.

[Gentlegamer]

One buddy of mine talks a lot of smack about the SNES sound having WAY too much echo effect in almost everything.


At first, I thought he was totally nuts, and although I knew that some SNES games used that echo effect quite a bit, he was dramatically overstating it. Of course, now when I play random SNES games I'm noticing the echo effect with great regularity, so I have to kind of begrudgingly agree with him to a slight degree.

Now do the same for Genesis robot farts.