Game Hoarders on Ebay???

[turboexpress]

Hi guys! I keep reading here and there about the possibility of hoarders on Ebay designed to drive up prices on video games. Possibility of types out there that have dozens and even hundreds of the same game, designed to keep price very high and taking advantage of that by re-selling games for much higher profit. What is everyone's thoughts on this? I also saw some dude on youtube that has 16 Turbo Express units that you would imagine raises the price since so many units per/owner. Now is this type of behavior very common on ebay and other places or is this just me being paranoid?

[celerystalker]

You're not paranoid. It's real and a little depressing. It's perfectly legal, but it's sad to see a hobby designed very directly to be fun be exploited the way it is. It doesn't bother me that games get expensive, but these behaviors that artificially increase it do.

[FieryReign]

Hi guys! I keep reading here and there about the possibility of hoarders on Ebay designed to drive up prices on video games. Possibility of types out there that have dozens and even hundreds of the same game, designed to keep price very high and taking advantage of that by re-selling games for much higher profit. What is everyone's thoughts on this? I also saw some dude on youtube that has 16 Turbo Express units that you would imagine raises the price since so many units per/owner. Now is this type of behavior very common on ebay and other places or is this just me being paranoid?

I want to see this video of a guy with 16 turboexpresses... 16 units because it's a Turbografx16? I wouldn't call it hoarding though. Hoarding is hoarding. Douchebagging is douchebagging. Big difference.

[bb_hood]

Hi guys! I keep reading here and there about the possibility of hoarders on Ebay designed to drive up prices on video games. Possibility of types out there that have dozens and even hundreds of the same game, designed to keep price very high and taking advantage of that by re-selling games for much higher profit. What is everyone's thoughts on this? I also saw some dude on youtube that has 16 Turbo Express units that you would imagine raises the price since so many units per/owner. Now is this type of behavior very common on ebay and other places or is this just me being paranoid?

I cant see people succeeding in 'cornering the market' when it comes to buying up every copy of a single game. There are just too many copies of X game out there, and if people try and hoard games that are already expensive it would require a substantial investment and huge commitment. You would have to buy like thousands of copies and wait years before any return. You would have to buy like every copy of said game that comes up for sale on ebay & amazon.
I can see people doing it as investments, but owning 16 turbo express units aint gonna drive prices up, at least over the long run. I dont doubt that maybe some people do try to hoard game to raise resale values but its just a bad idea. It is unwise to view collectibles as investments.

[Rickstilwell1]

It all comes down to how many people are doing that hoarding with the same item. One person hoarding 16 Turbo Express systems is one thing. But if 20 people do that, now you have 300 less systems on the market than there should be if all 20 people only kept one system.

You know who is the most guilty of hoarding common game items actually? Retro game stores! Trying to keep them in stock! Imagine how many of them have 50 SNES systems in the back so they can keep the prices high. Waiting for somebody to spend $60 on the console...

[Flojomojo]

I think it's just an effect of having an always-open, world-wide store that sells everything to the highest bidder. You're literally always going to pay the highest possible price at an auction, because that's the way auctions work. Before eBay, we would see artificially LOW prices on rare collectibles at flea markets and yard sales because people had no other place to flip them. I have difficulty thinking of sellers as behaving badly when they're just doing what the market incentivizes them to do.

[Tanooki]

There's a concerted effort there that practice hoarding and hoarding for profit behavior, and it blew up greatly when ebay allowed X free listings every month a lot more. The influx of the high priced BIN and 'Make Offer/BIN' setup really went nuts with that. The amount of games up there for ungodly sums or maybe even just 20% over the real sales average got much more pronounced. With this you can have those who hoard but like to brag shoving up a game at 50+% of real value and they'll be happy showing off, but also happy to get a chump to buy it then they'll just go get another to feed their addiction while keeping the profit of the first too after re-purchase. Seen that happen on ebay before along with just the show offs.

It's not common though for someone to have a lot of a game to corner the market and try and screw with values but it does happen. IN Japan (forget name) a local over there will buy up any prototype of a game and as many of that one as possible to just have them, but also to keep them from ever being shared, dumped(ROM) or anything else...just locked away in a pile of trash in his home. For years there was this American(?) who bought up as many copies as possible of Magical Chase US for the TG16 and with so few of it as is, he alone helped screw the cost of that game up pretty badly. I think as the story went he'd buy up a bunch, on occasion sell one for a huge sum of dough to help drive up the demand and price...kind of a very uneven revolving door keeping them as an investment. And this was before the TG16 stuff exploded in the last few years so I'd hate to think what they're worth now complete vs what he paid which already at the time was fairly ugly. Also if you think about it, most the video game resellers, the primaries on ebay, they're hoarders in a way. They get in a bunch of stuff at below value rates, but then they use stock imagery on there or their companion .com websites and ask like 30-50% over the real value hoping someone will bite due to their rep. I'll see that junk sit on ebay for a LONG time, but it stays there as a kind of retailers hoard.

[bb_hood]

The amount of games up there for ungodly sums or maybe even just 20% over the real sales average got much more pronounced. With this you can have those who hoard but like to brag shoving up a game at 50+% of real value and they'll be happy showing off, but also happy to get a chump to buy it then they'll just go get another to feed their addiction while keeping the profit of the first too after re-purchase. Seen that happen on ebay before along with just the show offs.


Yeah, well so what? If people want to list stuff with ridiculous BIN asking prices they have that right. Just because sometimes people list stuff more than current trending values does not mean every buyer is some brain-dead zombie who will just pay whatever. There is expensive, overpriced stuff all over ebay. Buying and selling collectibles on ebay is just a big game. Sellers are not obligated to sell anything at good or even reasonable prices.
I really dont think price increases on ebay are due to people hoarding games and making them more hard to find/valuable. I think its mostly due to the fact that so many more people are collecting than in previous years. Add in the factor that many of these games have been out of print for like 20+ years and it makes sense that prices continue to go up. The demand for original copies of retro games is there, and people like spending money on them.
Constantly bashing other collectors and sellers because they sell games on ebay is pointless. If people are just showing off then let them, nobody cares anyway.



For years there was this American(?) who bought up as many copies as possible of Magical Chase US for the TG16 and with so few of it as is, he alone helped screw the cost of that game up pretty badly. I think as the story went he'd buy up a bunch, on occasion sell one for a huge sum of dough to help drive up the demand and price...kind of a very uneven revolving door keeping them as an investment. And this was before the TG16 stuff exploded in the last few yearss

Thats a huge assumption that he took enough copies out of circulation in order to cause a serious increase in price. Magical Chase has always been rare and expensive, and if this seller you mentioned has been selling copies off here and there than thats not hoarding. Besides he would have had to buy like every copy of the game on ebay, and i dont see how that is possible. There is always gonna be someone else who has more money or wants it more.

[celerystalker]

I don't think high prices are solely the fault of these types of people, but I do know that there are tons of sellers who do stockpile and slowly mete them out to keep prices up, because if they plopped them all out at once, it would at least slightly devalue them. It is all a game, though... some of us get away with paying way less than going rates by picking our spots. It's the impatient types who drive comp prices up by jumping at high prices just to scratch an itch, and that's okay. It's all just free market, and as much as I wish it wasn't so nutty, I also get that it is simple economics at work. You just have to sit back and enjoy it when you get away with a low auction or stumble across a thrift store/garage sale find.

[Tanooki]

Yeah, well so what? If people want to list stuff with ridiculous BIN asking prices they have that right. Just because sometimes people list stuff more than current trending values does not mean every buyer is some brain-dead zombie who will just pay whatever. There is expensive, overpriced stuff all over ebay. Buying and selling collectibles on ebay is just a big game. Sellers are not obligated to sell anything at good or even reasonable prices.
I really dont think price increases on ebay are due to people hoarding games and making them more hard to find/valuable. I think its mostly due to the fact that so many more people are collecting than in previous years. Add in the factor that many of these games have been out of print for like 20+ years and it makes sense that prices continue to go up. The demand for original copies of retro games is there, and people like spending money on them.
Constantly bashing other collectors and sellers because they sell games on ebay is pointless. If people are just showing off then let them, nobody cares anyway.


Thats a huge assumption that he took enough copies out of circulation in order to cause a serious increase in price. Magical Chase has always been rare and expensive, and if this seller you mentioned has been selling copies off here and there than thats not hoarding. Besides he would have had to buy like every copy of the game on ebay, and i dont see how that is possible. There is always gonna be someone else who has more money or wants it more.

Your preachiness is unwarranted there. That wasn't even a complaint it was an observation. They can sell (or not) for all I care for whatever they want. I quit buying and you know it. I already said people post stuff specifically to show off, that's kind of what the poll was asking now wasn't it? Hoarding, showing off, keeping piles of stuff, throwing it on ebay. It is what it is. But there are also real resellers who do it too hoping the bait gets taken so that's true too. I wasn't bashing, it was a response to the question and the poll vote. I know the magical chase story is unique, but the stuff I've seen written going back pre 2010 even with that guy being quoted(if real) was to screw with the price and to have a stock of them, that was really it.

Like celery said, there are people who buy up a lot in advance, then slowly mete them out to control the influx and the price to a point by their distribution practices, and it's not weird really (messed up sure) but it's not like retail on the whole doesn't do that too anyway the whole supply and demand thing, yet usually at retail it's new supply and demand, and not a limited already in the first place old item that isn't produced. Perhaps shoving off that pent up anger or whatever it is should be done to the topic starter/poll maker as it was his intent to get others peoples answers with those choices.

[bb_hood]

Your preachiness is unwarranted there. That wasn't even a complaint it was an observation. They can sell (or not) for all I care for whatever they want. I quit buying and you know it. I already said people post stuff specifically to show off, that's kind of what the poll was asking now wasn't it? Hoarding, showing off, keeping piles of stuff, throwing it on ebay. It is what it is. But there are also real resellers who do it too hoping the bait gets taken so that's true too. I wasn't bashing, it was a response to the question and the poll vote. I know the magical chase story is unique, but the stuff I've seen written going back pre 2010 even with that guy being quoted(if real) was to screw with the price and to have a stock of them, that was really it.

Like celery said, there are people who buy up a lot in advance, then slowly mete them out to control the influx and the price to a point by their distribution practices, and it's not weird really (messed up sure) but it's not like retail on the whole doesn't do that too anyway the whole supply and demand thing, yet usually at retail it's new supply and demand, and not a limited already in the first place old item that isn't produced. Perhaps shoving off that pent up anger or whatever it is should be done to the topic starter/poll maker as it was his intent to get others peoples answers with those choices.

Not trying to sound preachy at all, I just dont see why every thread has to turn into a rant about people asking exorbitant prices on ebay.

I thought the thread was about people influencing prices by hoarding very very many copies of a single game. Not about people 'showing off' on ebay or asking an extra 20%.

I highly doubt that magical chase sells for thousands of dollars because one guy has like 80% of the copies in existence. In order to really affect prices by making a game scarce you would have to own very very many copies of it.
Hoarding shit can work both ways, the stuff you buy might be worth less in the future. Also there is the chance that the games/systems you hoard today just wont work when you goto sell them. Ultimately the buyer has a responsibility to himself/herself not to go bat-shit insane spending too much on collectibles.

[The 1 2 P]

I cant see people succeeding in 'cornering the market' when it comes to buying up every copy of a single game. There are just too many copies of X game out there, and if people try and hoard games that are already expensive it would require a substantial investment and huge commitment. You would have to buy like thousands of copies and wait years before any return.

This is what I was going to say. Hoarding goes beyond having a few copies of a title. As an example I use to have two copies of most of my expensive games(as well as many cheap/common games too), one opened to play and one factory sealed to sell in a few years for a big profit. And that strategy worked for me because when I started selling my sealed games I got anywhere from 4-20 times what I originally paid. But that wasn't because I had so many copies of those games, it's just that some people will always be willing to pay a little more for certain titles.

For retro games I typically use Goodwill, Craigslist, flea markets and yard sales. I still run into high prices but not nearly as much as I would if ebay was my only source. Regardless of how much prices have risen I've always managed to get what I want for a relatively affordable price. You just have to be a little patient.

[turboexpress]

this thread is not about people showing off their stuff. It's about getting opinions and possibly evidence of hoarding activity to raise prices on ebay. It's not a conspiracy or anything if some people understood the question wrong....anyways moving on....

Scenario: For example (lets take any game, I don't know exact prices but lets take Mario 3 just for example).

1. 50% of Mario 3 Buy it Now and auction ranges are established on Ebay. Let's say 50% of All Mario 3's are $20. So now you get this situation where the world just has the other 50% to play with, which is the open percent.

2. The open 50% lets say 25% of that are retro game stores and they also have their market prices based on hood, area etc. So after that you just have 25% to play with.

3. Lets say of the 25% left, 24% are inside actual collectors collections, NOT FOR SALE...

4. 1% left to play with...here is where anyone has that 1% chance of getting that Mario 3 for under certain price lets say that $20 on ebay.

You get where I'm going with this???? I think they are all screwing with us.

[Rickstilwell1]

I heard a rumor on facebook that some repro maker is buying every single copy of Cheetahmen II that he can find on ebay so people feel forced into buying his repro of the game instead of the original. Has anyone heard about that? At least Cheetahmen II is a game that is not worth playing.

[bb_hood]

I heard a rumor on facebook that some repro maker is buying every single copy of Cheetahmen II that he can find on ebay so people feel forced into buying his repro of the game instead of the original. Has anyone heard about that? At least Cheetahmen II is a game that is not worth playing.

Anyone with half a brain is not gonna want the cheetahmen repro.
The original is really rare. A repro made a few years back aint rare, and the people who made them can just crank out more if need be. The game itself sucks, so why would you pay 50$ for it?
Its just a crappy game hyped-up by the angry video game nerd. It doesnt deserve to be reproduced.

[Tanooki]

I remember that story, pretty sure it just is a story, but it wasn't someone random. It was the guy who made the original so that he could charge for those expensive new copies and collectors bundles he bankrolled. I remember some commentary and griping about that over at NA years back. No idea if that's true or not.

[homerhomer]

Why i think the prices are going up.

1. Everybody has internet everywhere and it makes it very easy price check games
2. Retro gaming is growing, hell there's retro inspired movies this summer
3. Reality tv shows making people think retro games are worth a mint.
4. Youtube has a tons of retro video game shows ( and growing )
5. Ebay tells you if you selling your item for to little.

and probably hoarders too

[Gameguy]

I heard a rumor on facebook that some repro maker is buying every single copy of Cheetahmen II that he can find on ebay so people feel forced into buying his repro of the game instead of the original. Has anyone heard about that? At least Cheetahmen II is a game that is not worth playing.
I heard someone was doing that with copies of Shaq Fu just to wipe out any existence of it.


And that guy with 270 copies of Jurassic Park SNES kept in a refrigerator. I'm assuming to protect them like in that Indiana Jones movie.

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/329765-an-update-on-my-friends-massive-jurassic-park-snes-collection/

[jm-9]

There are definitely people hoarding to make a profit. In fact, I think it's not particularly inaccurate to say that at this point, a significant proportion of people who buy retro games, particularly Nintendo games, are doing so to make a profit in the future. This is quite often either the sole or at least the primary motive. Many people describe themselves as collectors, but in reality should be described more as investors. I saw a thread on Nintendoage a few weeks ago that asked if people would still collect if their games would be worth nothing in the future. Many of people who responded would be totally uninterested if they couldn't make money. This has been a huge problem for the last few years, and the starting point can, I think, be pinpointed to the 2010 sale of Stadium Events for $41,000 (even though the sale didn't go through). That made people think that NES is worth money, and brought hoarding resellers into the market. It only got worse from there.

As has been noted above, one person hoarding games will not make a difference, but many people hoarding games can make a significant difference to the price. The hoarders' investments are paying off now, but the question must be asked, what will happen if people are no longer willing to pay the asking price?

The intrinsic value of many of these games is not what they are listed for on eBay. The artificial inflation of these games' worth is what makes the current situation an asset bubble. As much as we all enjoy these games, the reality is that retro gaming and collecting (other than for money) is very niche. Most people really don't enjoy the gameplay of NES games, other than maybe the Mario games. Furthermore, the higher that prices rise, the smaller the potential market becomes. The bubble is due to burst, and I think we are near the peak now. Anyone hoarding these games is going to lose a lot of money and will have to liquidate stock at a fraction of what they paid for them. Personally I think the sooner the better.

[Atarileaf]

I heard someone was doing that with copies of Shaq Fu just to wipe out any existence of it.



Kinda like George Lucas and the Star Wars Christmas Special :D

[retroguy]

Kinda like George Lucas and the Star Wars Christmas Special :D

And the funny thing about that is that that special is precisely the reason he became such a control freak when it came to Star Wars. He let other people do it without any input from him and afterwards he wanted to be sure such a thing never happened again. That's why when he sold his company, he stipulated that he would still have a say in what was done even if the final decisions are no longer his.

[Tanooki]

For a first post jm9 very well said and done. I find it hard to disagree with that as it makes the most sense other than predicting when the bubble will blow as people have been saying peak for a year or two now already and it hasn't blown up in peoples faces yet.

[Casati]

The prices for older systems like the Atari 2600 bubbled because of the limited graphics and gameplay, but I think the NES prices will continue to rise over time due to its close association with 16-bit SNES and later Nintendo consoles. Many franchises started on the NES and the gameplay is actually superior to later consoles for some games such as Tecmo Super Bowl. Moreover, see the list in the previous post about reasons for growing demand such as the abundance of YouTube videos drawing new hobbyists.

From what I've seen on Ebay, it appears there are a lot people who take an investments approach to video game collecting and also hoarders although I'm not sure of the extent.

[camarotuner]

Yes, there are people with the resources to intentionally manipulate collectibles market. My best example is from hockey cards. P.K. Subban (defenseman for the montreal canadiens) his best rookie is the cup arp. Someone very early grabbed up the majority of the 3 color patch variations of that card and is sitting on them. So when one does come to market it commands MUCH higher prices than it would otherwise. So at anypoint he wants to raise funds he puts one up for sale and it'll get gobbled up at a huge premium. So yes it can work but the item has to be rare enough to begin with that you can actually accumulate a large enough percentage that it effects the marketplace.

[Koa Zo]

I've noticed a couple sellers who maintain two accounts and then list the same items at different prices.
One account will list at absurdly high prices, and then the other account lists the same item at a slightly less inflated price - thereby making the appearance of a bargain for the less inflated duplicate listing.

[Tanooki]

That with the hockey card is what the guy with the TG16-US Magical Chase did. He saw there weren't many so he started to buy them all up as much as possible complete and loose, whatever worked. I know a few piddled out when cash was needed and then others who legit did get one before the mass gobbling of it happened too and it drove it up. Manipulation in this stuff isn't by any means easy, but it is doable to a degree.

Primarily the entire problem, all of it, no matter what your need or desire in having the old games is, it comes down to one word on why it went north on the prices -- investment. It's a general term but it captures the mess. You invest to flip, invest to use later to profit, invest to keep it until you don't care anymore or die and hand it down. Before it was a hobby, even if you were invested in it for some reason (usually memories or enjoyment) but now that has taken a back seat to sellers for short term profit investors. It'll collapse in time for a vast majority of it, but anyone guessing when is nuts. Anything of a limited amount that gets spiked historically has had it happen too going back decades.

[Gentlegamer]

As far as hoarding goes, it doesn't need to be a majority of all the extant items, just the easily obtainable items. It became common for professional resellers to buy up all cheap to cheapish listings for certain games on ebay, removing them from circulation into their exclusive possession. This doesn't mean they obtained all the games, some are in the hands of original owners who cherish them, some in the hands of collectors who bought them before inflation, some few perhaps still in boxes in someones basement forgotten. The point is, the items that did make it "to market" so to speak were chased by hoarder/resellers who realized classic game collecting (not playing) was become trendy and attracting people with money burning holes in their pockets, the yuppy instant collectors.

[WCP]

I remember when I was trying to collect Die Hard GameFan magazines, and looking for them on Ebay, there seemed to be this one dude.... billmarioman, who seemed to be buying up every single Gamefan auction (at least it seemed like he was).

I always wondered about that, because I was thinking to myself.... " I wonder if this guy is basically trying to buy up all loose GameFan's to try to corner the market on Gamefans and being the only guy with any of them... "


If he was really trying to do that, I'm sure he learned pretty quickly that it was a bad idea, because that mag had a pretty good circulation, and there are enough issues floating around out there, to try to buy up all of them would probably be a foolhardy endeavor.

[SparTonberry]

Stupidest thing I've seen is someone trying to sell individual magazine ARTICLES. Like they just bought a copy of GamePro, ripped out say the Super Metroid review and put it on ebay for $5.
Later they got "better" deals like $10 for all a page with each of the TMNT ads they could find. :P
Poor magazines destroyed for this scam. :(

I have sitting around about three years worth of Nintendo Power (mostly N64 era) I think I bought for like $20 shipped. Are those days passed?

[wizardofwor1975]

I've noticed a couple sellers who maintain two accounts and then list the same items at different prices.
One account will list at absurdly high prices, and then the other account lists the same item at a slightly less inflated price - thereby making the appearance of a bargain for the less inflated duplicate listing.

Good eye, I've noticed this practice as well. Very crafty...