Nintendo Allowing Homosexual Marriages in Fire Emblem: Fates... Even in North America

[Nz17]

Oh my, how times change. 1980's Nintendo wouldn't have allowed anything like this to exist. But believe it or not, the next Fire Emblem game, Fates, will allow the player to choose whether the protagonist hooks up with a same sex partner. And don't worry, "nobody" has to be left out: it allows for both lesbian and gay marriages. Basically, this applies to only two characters (one male and one female), and marrying either one is completely optional, and you have to work toward it happening, i.e. it doesn't just suddenly drop down as option out of the blue at some point.

On the one hand, hooray for openness and choice! On the other hand, I don't really want stuff like this in my entertainment. I'm not anti-gay (far from it), but when did games stop being about playing and having fun in a neutral in-game environment regardless of who you are? I mean, there are a lot of games from over the decades where you rescue someone just because that person is in peril, not because there is any kind of romance involved between the people. I guess perhaps fogies like me should go back to Pong Sports...

Either way, though, if this game is as good as Fire Emblem: Awakening, then I'll eventually acquire it too.

[Tanooki]

On the one hand, hooray for openness and choice! On the other hand, I don't really want stuff like this in my entertainment. I'm not anti-gay (far from it), but when did games stop being about playing and having fun in a neutral in-game environment regardless of who you are? I mean, there are a lot of games from over the decades where you rescue someone just because that person is in peril, not because there is any kind of romance involved between the people. I guess perhaps fogies like me should go back to Pong Sports...

Well said. Games don't need to be getting political and touchy feely to everyone out there's on personal preferences or reason to whine about something well beyond the gay issue. Games are an escape, and it has a story and you either buy it and enjoy it for what it is or ignore it. It's not about being exclusionary and picking on people, it's not a political movement, it's a bloody video game. When games start to really parallel reality either in content/context or trying to appease every group of people, they're effectively dead because the escape from reality is gone and it's just digital pandering.

That said if it's (as you put it) as nice as Awakenings, it'll be worth a buy, and something you have kind of hidden you'll have to dig a lot for anyway can be easily avoided. I'd feel more sorry for someone who felt the need to make that their deciding factor in buying and playing the game because they have some larger underlying(or not) personal problems and issues.

[The Adventurer]

Can you two even hear yourselves? Giving players more choice in how to roleplay has never been a bad thing.

[Tupin]

This should be such a non-issue that should just be automatically in the game and no one should be batting an eye. It's completely normal and to be honest not even worth focusing on. It's a gimme. Focusing on it like this won't normalize it like it already should be.

[RPG_Fanatic]

Who gives a shit about it. If you don't want to do it then don't, simple as that.

[The 1 2 P]

This should be such a non-issue that should just be automatically in the game and no one should be batting an eye. It's completely normal and to be honest not even worth focusing on. It's a gimme. Focusing on it like this won't normalize it like it already should be.

Very true. And as a minority I feel the same way about minority characters and female lead characters. I think now that we are here in 2015 all of this should be completely normal.

[Tanooki]

Can you two even hear yourselves? Giving players more choice in how to roleplay has never been a bad thing.

In my mind yeah I can hear it, but writing it still reads the same. It seems more like political and dillution of things to make a subset of people who care that much of a larger subset of people who don't really at all happy. Either way I just see it as pandering, and yes to make a public deal out of it instead of just being quiet and having it there (media whoring stories for hits included) it would be a non-issue as no one would notice or care really. The way I see it, if they're going down the road of people with mental conditions, perhaps they should invent the first mainstream video game where the lead has autism or something, they did this with a good series of manga books (With the Light: Raising an Autistic Child) which got well reviewed and released in english too. Another would be maybe to make a game after some different TLC/Discovery TV series hits like My 600lb Life where you can train your character into a better life?

[kai123]

In my mind yeah I can hear it, but writing it still reads the same. It seems more like political and dillution of things to make a subset of people who care that much of a larger subset of people who don't really at all happy. Either way I just see it as pandering, and yes to make a public deal out of it instead of just being quiet and having it there (media whoring stories for hits included) it would be a non-issue as no one would notice or care really. The way I see it, if they're going down the road of people with mental conditions, perhaps they should invent the first mainstream video game where the lead has autism or something, they did this with a good series of manga books (With the Light: Raising an Autistic Child) which got well reviewed and released in english too. Another would be maybe to make a game after some different TLC/Discovery TV series hits like My 600lb Life where you can train your character into a better life?

Being gay is not a mental condition. You don't just become gay. I am not sure if that is what you are trying to say there.


Onto it being in the game then why not? I don't personally care but if someone has to change the vision of their game to cater to everyone then that could be an issue. If you are choosing who you marry in the game then you should have the choice of anyone. I am not even gay but I would probably make the choice to be in a gay marriage in the game. It is just a game after all.

[Tupin]

Very true. And as a minority I feel the same way about minority characters and female lead characters. I think now that we are here in 2015 all of this should be completely normal.
To be honest, I'm ignoring every post in this thread because I really don't think this discussion is that hard. You're right about it applying to female and minority characters too. It's so normal to me that I don't even find anything weird about it except people trying to treat it as a big deal. Like, no shit? There's literally nothing special about characters being these things in 2015.

[Eternal Champion]

Oh my, how times change. 1980's Nintendo wouldn't have allowed anything like this to exist. But believe it or not, the next Fire Emblem game, Fates, will allow the player to choose whether the protagonist hooks up with a same sex partner. And don't worry, "nobody" has to be left out: it allows for both lesbian and gay marriages. Basically, this applies to only two characters (one male and one female), and marrying either one is completely optional, and you have to work toward it happening, i.e. it doesn't just suddenly drop down as option out of the blue at some point.

On the one hand, hooray for openness and choice! On the other hand, I don't really want stuff like this in my entertainment. I'm not anti-gay (far from it), but when did games stop being about playing and having fun in a neutral in-game environment regardless of who you are? I mean, there are a lot of games from over the decades where you rescue someone just because that person is in peril, not because there is any kind of romance involved between the people. I guess perhaps fogies like me should go back to Pong Sports...

Either way, though, if this game is as good as Fire Emblem: Awakening, then I'll eventually acquire it too.
LOL . . . (I need 5 characters)

[Tanooki]

Being gay is not a mental condition. You don't just become gay. I am not sure if that is what you are trying to say there.


Onto it being in the game then why not? I don't personally care but if someone has to change the vision of their game to cater to everyone then that could be an issue. If you are choosing who you marry in the game then you should have the choice of anyone. I am not even gay but I would probably make the choice to be in a gay marriage in the game. It is just a game after all.

Actually that was what I was getting at, it's a mental condition. I don't see it as a religious abomination or other crazy junk that's out there, but there's no conclusive genetic documentation showing it's a legitimate gender. Seriously though, I didn't want that line derailing the topic, so if that needs to carry further the off topic section is there for a reason. :)

Now onto what you said, I was eluding to just that, changing to vision of a game to pander to some small group that'll get vocal and take offense on their behalf and on others whether they'd want to care about it or not. Imagine you had a story where the win creates a relationship that in an RPG brings forward the next generation (a prince/princess) to run the leader position for a sequel, a nice ending, or for the back half of a story..same gender would make that story impossible. I know it's a vague example, but there are ways you can water down or jack someones vision on what a game should be to keep some group of people rom being offended. The question is, how far do you have to take it before everything just falls into some nebulous or over PC shell of itself so everyone and everything is happy? What's next, Mario can't save the princess because that's anti-feminist because she's a weak woman?

[The Adventurer]

Oh my god. Its not 'changing the vision of the game' WHEN THE DEVELOPERS DECIDED TO PUT IT IN.

Its changing vision and pandering when a company like Nintendo of America actively deciding to censor it out for fear of minority opinion backlash! Like they used to do all the time.

[kai123]

Oh my god. Its not 'changing the vision of the game' WHEN THE DEVELOPERS DECIDED TO PUT IT IN.

Its changing vision and pandering when a company like Nintendo of America actively deciding to censor it out for fear of minority opinion backlash! Like they used to do all the time.


Yea, I am saying that if I want to make a character be a straight white guy in my game I shouldn't be harassed because of that choice. If the developer wants it in their game then have at it. Just don't try to make them change their vision for the game. IDC who they have in the game as long as it is good. I just don't like people being pressured to change something if they don't want to. Most stories in games are not very good anyways so I am not looking for the story to be much to write home about. There are only a few games that hook me with the story. I mostly just want to play. I would love to see some diversity in games because they are sure as hell are all starting to feel the same.

BTW if a game like Hatred is out there then there really isn't any censorship in gaming. It is mostly the big boys who don't want to take any risks that are to blame for the lack of diversity. This is a good step from Nintendo who is still considered one of the big boys.

[RP2A03]

This thread is going places.

[Bojay1997]

Actually that was what I was getting at, it's a mental condition. I don't see it as a religious abomination or other crazy junk that's out there, but there's no conclusive genetic documentation showing it's a legitimate gender. Seriously though, I didn't want that line derailing the topic, so if that needs to carry further the off topic section is there for a reason. :)

Now onto what you said, I was eluding to just that, changing to vision of a game to pander to some small group that'll get vocal and take offense on their behalf and on others whether they'd want to care about it or not. Imagine you had a story where the win creates a relationship that in an RPG brings forward the next generation (a prince/princess) to run the leader position for a sequel, a nice ending, or for the back half of a story..same gender would make that story impossible. I know it's a vague example, but there are ways you can water down or jack someones vision on what a game should be to keep some group of people rom being offended. The question is, how far do you have to take it before everything just falls into some nebulous or over PC shell of itself so everyone and everything is happy? What's next, Mario can't save the princess because that's anti-feminist because she's a weak woman?

The game gives players the option of getting married. As part of that gameplay choice, players can choose to marry someone of the same sex. Nobody is forced to either get married or marry anyone of the same sex. I'm not seeing what the problem is. Do you just not like games that provide players with choices? If you want to be forced to follow a story from a particular perspective, there are plenty of books and movies and television shows that fit the bill. As a gamer, I am excited about having choices. Nobody is forcing you to buy the game or play the game.

As someone who was done a lot of volunteer work with HIV/AIDS and non-profits that serve the LGBTQ community, I can tell you that I have met plenty of young children who are raised by heterosexual parents that are simply born gay. I believe that it's not a choice or a mental condition, it is in fact just who they are. No amount of bigotry or small mindedness is going to change the fact that this country is becoming more diverse and it's going to create an America for the future that will be vibrant and amazing. I personally am just happy that I'm living in a time when we are actually becoming a country that embraces difference rather than trying to repress it.

[Zthun]

Actually that was what I was getting at, it's a mental condition. I don't see it as a religious abomination or other crazy junk that's out there, but there's no conclusive genetic documentation showing it's a legitimate gender. Seriously though, I didn't want that line derailing the topic, so if that needs to carry further the off topic section is there for a reason. :)

Being gay isn't a gender, it's sexual orientation. Unless there's some new hip definition of gender I'm not aware of.


On the one hand, hooray for openness and choice! On the other hand, I don't really want stuff like this in my entertainment. I'm not anti-gay (far from it), but when did games stop being about playing and having fun in a neutral in-game environment regardless of who you are? I mean, there are a lot of games from over the decades where you rescue someone just because that person is in peril, not because there is any kind of romance involved between the people. I guess perhaps fogies like me should go back to Pong Sports...

I always find the 'I'm not anti-gay, but...' quotes amusing. They provide some mild entertainment of the backward contradictory logic that people come up with so they don't appear a certain way to others.


Yea, I am saying that if I want to make a character be a straight white guy in my game I shouldn't be harassed because of that choice. If the developer wants it in their game then have at it. Just don't try to make them change their vision for the game. IDC who they have in the game as long as it is good. I just don't like people being pressured to change something if they don't want to. Most stories in games are not very good anyways so I am not looking for the story to be much to write home about. There are only a few games that hook me with the story. I mostly just want to play. I would love to see some diversity in games because they are sure as hell are all starting to feel the same.

I have to agree with this. I can't stand modern day feminists and social justice warriors, which is where a lot of these attitudes come from. If you want equal rights, that's one thing pretty much the vast majority will stand behind. However, nobody has the right to tell others how to think or feel; that is way over the line and a direct infringement on freedom and liberties.

[ZeroCool]

Two hot chicks

[bb_hood]

Two hot chicks

..and a bottle of ketchup

[The Adventurer]

I have to agree with this. I can't stand modern day feminists and social justice warriors, which is where a lot of these attitudes come from. If you want equal rights, that's one thing pretty much the vast majority will stand behind. However, nobody has the right to tell others how to think or feel; that is way over the line and a direct infringement on freedom and liberties.

Oh.... And you were doing so well too.

[kai123]

Oh.... And you were doing so well too.

I have no right to tell someone how to feel or think. People will think and feel however they please. I can talk with them and try to get them to see my side of it and they can try the same to me as well. If Jerry Seinfeld thinks that colleges are becoming too PC I think we may have a communication problem from both sides.

Stories and gameplay are a creative endeavor. You can't please everyone all the time. At the end of the day though the developers are really beholden to publishers. They don't seem to like diversity in gaming at the moment. If the demand was there you bet your ass there would be more of them. Vote with your wallet. Unless everyone thinks making youtube videos off of kickstarter donations is going to change the world.

[sfchakan]

I think that some people are trying to make this a big deal. It's not.

More choices = good.

Developers, in general, weren't trying to limit homosexual choices in the past. They either didn't think of it, didn't have time to add it, or couldn't make it work when you selected a mate to have offspring with if the game featured such a thing.

[The Adventurer]

I have no right to tell someone how to feel or think. People will think and feel however they please. I can talk with them and try to get them to see my side of it and they can try the same to me as well. If Jerry Seinfeld thinks that colleges are becoming too PC I think we may have a communication problem from both sides.

Stories and gameplay are a creative endeavor. You can't please everyone all the time. At the end of the day though the developers are really beholden to publishers. They don't seem to like diversity in gaming at the moment. If the demand was there you bet your ass there would be more of them. Vote with your wallet. Unless everyone thinks making youtube videos off of kickstarter donations is going to change the world.

I meant throwing words around like 'Social Justice Warrior' and 'Modern Feminist' like they mean something. When the people you haphazardly label with the terms coined by the ignorant and hateful only want the same thing you claim to stand force, the right to not be dictated to by others.

There is no such thing as 'PC', again it's based on the idea there is suppose to be some kind of baseline to ignorance and hate that is acceptable. It's a fallacy.

Edit: and youtubes off Kickstarter can change the world, by bringing the long hidden conversation out into the open where the masses can see it in all its ugly glory. You can't fight a problem if no one is talking about it.

[Leo_A]

In my mind yeah I can hear it, but writing it still reads the same. It seems more like political and dillution of things to make a subset of people who care that much of a larger subset of people who don't really at all happy. Either way I just see it as pandering, and yes to make a public deal out of it instead of just being quiet and having it there (media whoring stories for hits included) it would be a non-issue as no one would notice or care really. The way I see it, if they're going down the road of people with mental conditions, perhaps they should invent the first mainstream video game where the lead has autism or something, they did this with a good series of manga books (With the Light: Raising an Autistic Child) which got well reviewed and released in english too. Another would be maybe to make a game after some different TLC/Discovery TV series hits like My 600lb Life where you can train your character into a better life?

Careful, you're not allowed to be normal anymore. ;)

[Guntz]

I don't get why tolerance can't go both ways. What about the people who still like tried and true tradition? Why can't LGBT defenders accept that people can have opinions and beliefs of their own? It's pretty silly if you think about it.

[Niku-Sama]

I like the dicks!

[Atarileaf]

I've been playing the sims games since their beginning around 2000 and IIRC you could always hook up or have a relationship with the same sex. Can't recall if you could marry but I would think probably you could.

[retroguy]

Just because the option is there doesn't mean you have to partake. If you're offended that it's in the game at all, as several of you seem to be, than you're a bigot, period. And people don't have to respect your "beliefs". They have to ACKNOWLEDGE your "beliefs" and then they reserve the right to say you're a bigot if you are one.

[Leo_A]

Someone needs to look up the definition of bigot.

I can not support something or want it portrayed in my entertainment, without being a bigot. I'm a tolerant individual not out to persecute such people. I simply just don't offer my support, however little that actually matters, for their lifestyle choice. It's not my idea of what marriage, an important concept that is at the foundation of this country and our culture, should be about.

I enjoy the performances of a number of actors that have stated they are, or allegedly were, homesexuals. Monty Woolley, Rock Hudson, Richard Deacon, etc. How do you reconcile such a thing with me allegedly being a bigot just because I'm not marching in parades or voting based on who supports homosexual marriages? And if I ever have a child that decides that's for them, I wouldn't just stop loving them. I'd deal with it and support them as best as I could, since my feelings about it are my problem, not theirs.

When some people talk about tolerance, they really need to look up what that actually entails...

[kai123]

When some people talk about tolerance, they really need to look up what that actually entails...


You are only tolerant if you believe what I believe.

[Bojay1997]

Someone needs to look up the definition of bigot.

I can not support something or want it portrayed in my entertainment, without being a bigot. I'm a tolerant individual not out to persecute such people. I simply just don't offer my support, however little that actually matters, for their lifestyle choice. It's not my idea of what marriage, an important concept that is at the foundation of this country and our culture, should be about.

I enjoy the performances of a number of actors that have stated they are, or allegedly were, homesexuals. Monty Woolley, Rock Hudson, Richard Deacon, etc. How do you reconcile such a thing with me allegedly being a bigot just because I'm not marching in parades or voting based on who supports homosexual marriages? And if I ever have a child that decides that's for them, I wouldn't just stop loving them. I'd deal with it and support them as best as I could, since my feelings about it are my problem, not theirs.

When some people talk about tolerance, they really need to look up what that actually entails...

All of that is fine, except that you are actively taking a position that would deny other people their fundamental human rights to partake of the same beautiful traditions and institutions that you believe are so foundational. It's no different than all of the people who wanted to perpetuate "Jim Crow" laws in the South claiming that to allow true equality somehow robbed the people who were not subject to those laws of historical and cultural institutions that made Southern life so wonderful. Somebody else getting married to someone of the same sex has zero impact on your ability to pursue what you or anyone else considers a "traditional" marriage just like adding these choices in a Nintendo game does nothing to impact your ability to play the game in any way you see fit.

[Tanooki]

I have no right to tell someone how to feel or think. People will think and feel however they please. I can talk with them and try to get them to see my side of it and they can try the same to me as well. If Jerry Seinfeld thinks that colleges are becoming too PC I think we may have a communication problem from both sides.

Stories and gameplay are a creative endeavor. You can't please everyone all the time. At the end of the day though the developers are really beholden to publishers. They don't seem to like diversity in gaming at the moment. If the demand was there you bet your ass there would be more of them. Vote with your wallet. Unless everyone thinks making youtube videos off of kickstarter donations is going to change the world.

Well The Adventurer there clearly doesn't agree as a social justice warrior who feels you, zthun and others must think and act how he sees fit or it's a problem. Maybe my wording wasn't the best last night making it look like it all hinged upon Fire Emblem, but it was a general comment which is why I tossed that last bit in about what's next, feminists bitching about a weak princess being saved by Mario. At some point you well enough have to leave it alone. You just can't force people to do whatever the hell you as a person wants because then everyone will want to stick their nose in it and nothing will get accomplished.

Leo, no doubt, being normal is the new bad thing apparently these days you must feel guilty about and go into hiding over unless you wish to attract verbal or physical violence. And thank you for that last post, that's right where I sit on the matter. To self righteous types social crusading and crushing anyone who doesn't agree entirely who would call you a bigot, it's just not the case. kai got it right, the non-stated but all too often social justice warrior mantra of you are only tolerant if you believe what I believe (because if you don't, it's on big time.)


and zthun, gender, sexual orientation, however you want to put a label on it, it's still a mental problem because normal behavior would attract the opposite genders to procreate and continue the species. Until I see some definitive scientific information otherwise that it's normal I rank it right in there with other brain issues that may or may not ultimately be treatable.

[Daria]

I'm not anti-gay (far from it), but when did games stop being about playing and having fun in a neutral in-game environment regardless of who you are?

I'm guessing having opposite sex relationships only wouldn't seem like a "neutral" environment to someone who's not straight.

[kai123]

and zthun, gender, sexual orientation, however you want to put a label on it, it's still a mental problem because normal behavior would attract the opposite genders to procreate and continue the species. Until I see some definitive scientific information otherwise that it's normal I rank it right in there with other brain issues that may or may not ultimately be treatable.

If it was a mental disorder then all of those conversion camps would be working instead of failing and treatment options would be available. Just accept it that there are gay people and they are normal. It is not like being gay is something new. It was just a very undercover lifestyle. Now people can be out and accepted more than ever. Either way idk if you think it is I know what I know and you know what you know. Everyone should have the same rights as long as they are not hurting anyone there is nothing to fear except change.

I do feel like some SJW and the like come on a little strong to people who don't care one way or the other and may actually push them away from their cause. My $.02 of course.

[Nz17]

I'm guessing having opposite sex relationships only wouldn't seem like a "neutral" environment to someone who's not straight.

Exactly, which is why one of my original points was that I would prefer games to be without any kind of sexuality to them.

Anyway, I was going to write a longer post about the differences on this topic between Japanese culture and American culture, and how another of my original points was about how I found it noteworthy that Nintendo of America wasn't going to engage in censorship of this game like it had during its past in the 80's and 90's; but this discussion quickly deteriorated into something filled with negative emotions. Therefore, it is time to lock this thread.