Your experience with the Retron 5??

[lendelin]

I searched for a thread about the Retron 5, but couldn't find one. Sorry, if I overlooked it.

I'm on the edge buying a Retron 5. I saw one three weeks ago and didn't even know that this product was on the market, but immediately I was impressed by it.

I didn't play a lot of videogames in the last couple of years partially because of my job and moreover I wasn't in the mood playing. Aditionally, I was out of the country and came back six weeks ago. Since I'm rediscovering my gameroom and looking at all my games (a smaller collection, around 1700 games from the NES on, 12 consoles), I'm truly in the game-mode again.

I'm in the process of reorganizing my gameroom, buying lots of new stuff: Games and games and games, a new HDTV, the older CRT I'll keep of course for the older systems, and while I was making all this buying decisions I saw in a used gamestore the Retron 5. I was flabbergasted.

Wonderful graphics, the possibility of the Retron 5 to be linked to an HDTV, even for an emulator skeptic like me is the prospect of having this system incredibly tempting. I will always keep the older systems and prefer to play the games on them, but the Retron 5 as a complementary system would just be great.

Then the shock came: I googled and read reviews, I watched Youtube videos about the system, and now I'm really not sure anymore if I should buy it or not. On the one hand I'd love to have a system with all these possibilities and play a SNES Axelay on a 48 inch HDTV with these kind of graphics, on the other hand I don't like to buy a system which might break down in a year because it is cheaply built or still has the deathgrip problem.

Which are your experiences with the Retron 5? Did it break down? Did it damage games? Or is it fun and you'd recommend buying it?

[Leo_A]

Here are the two primary Retron 5 threads.

http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?166619-RetroN-5-is-officially-a-thing-apparently

http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?170560-RetroN5-Hands-on-first-look

[Tanooki]

Well for one, if you have 1700 games, should your priority be buying more right now? :P If you haven't been able to do it in years, they should all feel relatively new and you probably should suck enough at them to be considered so. :)


Anyway there's a lot of poor info out there on the R5 and I think that would shake anyone up. There are TWO version of it. That's the issue. The original one was shoddily built with super tight pins in a majority of systems but also of cheap metals that bent or snapped off rendering the slot(s) useless. The controller ports were weak, the top frame(cart slots area) was flimsy and would compress(eventually break given time I'd think) and had some internal issues with random failures. About 6mo after the fact they scrapped the system in a way and re-issued it. The new one isn't too tight, the cart port doesn't bend and snap its pins. The top part is not flimsy, the controller ports are reinforced and come with little rubber dust caps over them too. What isn't addressed is the controller, while decently built, odds are you slam or throw it, something in there will give due to the plastics. Odds are you won't use it if you have a real controller because of wireless(minor) lag and its just not as comfortable.

Yes it's an emulator at its core, but no it doesn't feel like one as you play. It's so well fine tuned it will be like you're playing on true hardware yet running in HDMI along with the other perks that come with it you can read up on. No one will know for sure how sturdy it is or isn't, but this far in I've not seen the complaining the original model had for falling apart so maybe they got it right. I think for the price, if you're not still using a CRT screen, it's a must.


I sadly have a shady track record with the system and the company as far as the first model went, but the problems helped them along in the revisions both with the system but also their process in handling returns/warranty deals. I got a launch gray system, it ran nicely for a good time, eventually it decided to stop reading common NES games like Gargoyle's Quest so I RMA'd it. I had through this time made friends with the head Retron tech working on the system code. They went and got me a swap out, and that one didn't work any better. I got another and it was dead on arrival and beat to hell too. After going through 3 systems over a period of around a month and issuing personal bug issues and things to the tech as a friend he got pissed and went to the HK offices leadership. I got a personal apology and they went after the throats of the US office which was screwing around. The apology was to get a new off the line second model system air dropped from HK, but they discovered in the US office, they already had one, not boxed up yet and all but had it, but it was black (fine by me, prefer it.) So I ended up with the v2 of the R5 along with a black controller, the new box etc. I've had that going solid since, never a failure, even GQ2 never pitched a problem.

[YoshiM]

Holy cow! You live! Long time no see!

I've tooled with the Retron off and on when time allowed. I have the newer version that Tanooki mentions. So far it's worked well from what I tried. I don't use the included controller except for the system menu and such. I can't find a bit of lag in the controls and the imagery looks pretty crisp on a good LCD tv. Only hiccup I ran into came in the form of playing some repros I have and even original titles like Armed for Battle. Either they don't work (Armed for Battle) or they glitch (my copy of Penguin Dreams).

Another grand thing about it is you can also do save states, which is great for games you don't want to scribble down passwords for or want to continue playing if there isn't a save feature.

I'd say for convenience factor I'd get one. For me I'd rather play my games on the big screen than on my Commodore monitor.

[Tanooki]

I can explain that one, it is out there, but you have to dig, and it's exclusive to the NES alone.

Nintendo and their mapper system, all those myriad of chips are to blame along with the fact the R5 itself has a massive CRC checklist within the system. It will look at the game, read the CRC and use the database to tell the emulator what mapper to fire up, just like the classic .NES headers do. When a game has NO header (ie: copier cart) the system can not see it at all and you get an error. If it has one, even as a multicart, it will attempt to read it. It will either pull up the menu but never get into the individual games, or it will just straight up fail. And in the case of a singular cart where it can not find a matching CRC the system will go into a fallback mode and scan the game and attempt load it using .NES mapper 0-4, the most basic stuff, which like 90% of NES games use anyway. That would work, but odds are a game that saves will have a problem I'd think since it wouldn't find the thing twice to pull the data again.

Armed for Battle doesn't use mapper0-4, and the data on the cart isn't public info I don't believe for what the CRC is on it, so it won't work in the R5. If you had that info, and you facebook messaged the Retron Tech, they'd attempt to add it though. I did this on a few things including the Supervision 115in1 pirate cart I have and that one works 100% because of it, one of few pirate multicarts that play. Again this only applies to the NES, if you have various bootlegs for other systems that are not multi-carts, they should work fine on the system. Other than 1 game the Genesis didn't use special chips, and the SNES only used Lo and HiROM cart boards and that's all mapped out so it just works, even games with special chips as my Starfox2 works fine. The other platforms it supports doesn't have issues either for the same reason, no wonky headers/chips to worry about.

[lendelin]

I can explain that one, it is out there, but you have to dig, and it's exclusive to the NES alone.

Nintendo and their mapper system, all those myriad of chips are to blame along with the fact the R5 itself has a massive CRC checklist within the system. It will look at the game, read the CRC and use the database to tell the emulator what mapper to fire up, just like the classic .NES headers do. When a game has NO header (ie: copier cart) the system can not see it at all and you get an error. If it has one, even as a multicart, it will attempt to read it. It will either pull up the menu but never get into the individual games, or it will just straight up fail. And in the case of a singular cart where it can not find a matching CRC the system will go into a fallback mode and scan the game and attempt load it using .NES mapper 0-4, the most basic stuff, which like 90% of NES games use anyway. That would work, but odds are a game that saves will have a problem I'd think since it wouldn't find the thing twice to pull the data again.

Armed for Battle doesn't use mapper0-4, and the data on the cart isn't public info I don't believe for what the CRC is on it, so it won't work in the R5. If you had that info, and you facebook messaged the Retron Tech, they'd attempt to add it though. I did this on a few things including the Supervision 115in1 pirate cart I have and that one works 100% because of it, one of few pirate multicarts that play. Again this only applies to the NES, if you have various bootlegs for other systems that are not multi-carts, they should work fine on the system. Other than 1 game the Genesis didn't use special chips, and the SNES only used Lo and HiROM cart boards and that's all mapped out so it just works, even games with special chips as my Starfox2 works fine. The other platforms it supports doesn't have issues either for the same reason, no wonky headers/chips to worry about.

Thanks Tanooki, your posts helped a lot. Indeed I read also about the different Chips NES games used, and that this is a real challenge for emulators. Thanks again.

Then I should probably buy the system, that means the improved newer version. Do you know how I can make sure that I get the newer version and not the old one?

I'm really looking forward to play the old gems with upscaled graphics.

[lendelin]

Holy cow! You live! Long time no see!

I've tooled with the Retron off and on when time allowed. I have the newer version that Tanooki mentions. So far it's worked well from what I tried. I don't use the included controller except for the system menu and such. I can't find a bit of lag in the controls and the imagery looks pretty crisp on a good LCD tv. Only hiccup I ran into came in the form of playing some repros I have and even original titles like Armed for Battle. Either they don't work (Armed for Battle) or they glitch (my copy of Penguin Dreams).

Another grand thing about it is you can also do save states, which is great for games you don't want to scribble down passwords for or want to continue playing if there isn't a save feature.

I'd say for convenience factor I'd get one. For me I'd rather play my games on the big screen than on my Commodore monitor.

Hi there! :) Yes, I'm alive and well. I wasn't on Digitalpress for years, but now that I'm in America again and confronted with all the games I have, I really wanna game again like in the old days. :)

I was in Germany for six years. Not that I was cut off gaming (that will probably never happen!), but my life there was different plus I just didn't play so much. I had a PS3 and a 360 there, and I bought to 95% PS3 games which I brought with me, around 170 games. I didn't buy Wii or 360 games only for special games becasue of the region lock.

I just hadn't enough space in my gameroom, so I'm reorganizing everything. All the guides (around 700) go to the hallway, and only games will be in the gameroom plus a new HDTV, a new 360 and a new PS3 (have the old 20GB with the PS2 chip) and a Wii which I never had. (Uhoh) I can't wait to Play Puppeteer, Donkey Kong Returns and a Gran Turismo 6 on a 48inch HDTV. I may even Play Ni No Kuni again. :)

...AND the Retron 5 would be just great! I waited a long time for such a system (use of the old controllers, save functions), and the perspective to play a Zelda, Crystalis or Space Megaforce with these upscaled graphics on a big TV is incredibly tempting. That's why the opinion of experienced gamers like you is so important to me.

Then it is settled. I'll buy one. :)

But here is another question: How can I make sure, that I get the newer improved model? Are there telltale signs or model numbers or something like that?

[lendelin]

Here are the two primary Retron 5 threads.

http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?166619-RetroN-5-is-officially-a-thing-apparently

http://forum.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?170560-RetroN5-Hands-on-first-look

Sorry, I couldn't find These threads. On the other Hand, it might be good to hear the experiences with the Retron 5 after all this time after its release. How long such a system lasts is the most important question.

[Tanooki]

No way to know how long it will last. As with anything you can get a lemon or an awesome one that just keeps on truckin. As far as the how to, from the box, I'm not entirely sure, but inside the stiff top and rubber caps on the controller ports are a dead give away. If you said you saw a store with them, ask to see inside so you know if it's a good one or a junk old one.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I'd had mine since it was released. It still works perfectly fine.

[Leo_A]

Sorry, I couldn't find These threads. On the other Hand, it might be good to hear the experiences with the Retron 5 after all this time after its release. How long such a system lasts is the most important question.

No need to apologize, since you said you did try to find an existing thread. The search engine here is pretty much useless though.

I linked you to those to be helpful since there's a ton of information there that may be of some assistance. I didn't do it to shame you by showing you that you didn't look quite hard enough, or some such nonsense. :)

[calgon]

Happy with my launch model. Only complaints are what has been discussed before, mainly the death grip on carts, and to a lesser extent the option to write save data back to a cart has been 50/50 for me.

Thread has reminded me I need to pick up some gameboy games

[Tanooki]

I find the only good search engine for this site is google doing a site:forum.digitpress.com followed with a space and what you're searching works best as in-house as stated is useless.

Yes we should all get Gameboy games, they're fun, small, mostly cheap if loose or even in many cases with the book, just avoid the box. It's the one thing with Nintendo that has remained steady and not been abused and I'm hoping its status as a kids handheld with small games keeps it relegated to the garbage bin as far as the vultures are concerned. I should have MGS GBC in the mail today which is very nice.

[YoshiM]

Lendelin: just make sure you have a small SD card handy to update the machine. The stock unit you get is unlikely up to date.

[Tanooki]

That's for certain, a safe bet is a 1GB card so you can store those upgrades but also enough for various save/load states, pictures if you take them, hacks, translations, and other patches. It's still overkill a bit, but I doubt you'll find smaller at retail anymore.

[BlastProcessing402]

I sometimes think about getting one, but then I realize if I really need to play emulated games on my HDTV I can connect my laptop to it via HDMI and it'll do a better job and give me more options. And for a lot of stuff I wouldn't even need to do that and could just use Wii emulators on my Wii U.

If for some reason you're dead set on dumping roms off your carts every time you play, well, then yeah. R5 all the way.

I simplify, I know, there may be other valid reasons for an R5, but to me, they just don't justify the cost. Maybe if it was like $50 or less.

[Tanooki]

To each their own. I justify it because it hot saves games without doing load/save state procedures, the HDMI, it uses my games not just downloading roms online and firing them up, it uses my controllers without buying adapters, and I don't have to as you put it, carry the laptop around to get it going on the TV. I mean you have other stuff like the instant patching/loading of an IPS file which is cool too. I know enough of this can be emulated, but the risk isn't worth the reward to me and I could even with an adapter plug my carts into the laptop too, but the amount I paid for it, it almost never has left my desk. :)

[Koa Zo]

I'm buying a Retron5 as soon as the Game Gear adapter gets released.

[Leo_A]

The Game Gear adapter is intriguing.

http://thepunkeffect.com/retron-5-getting-game-gear-adaptor/

Too bad that I can't pair it with a Game Gear Everdrive. I might just have to break down and actually collect a few original Game Gear exclusives (i.e., those that weren't just SMS ports) that intrigue me, like the fine looking Ristar release.

[Dire 51]

I'd like to see them release an Atari 2600 adapter for the R5, as I'd like to be able to use all of my carts on one console.

[Az]

The Game Gear adapter is intriguing.

That is interesting, I had no idea of it until you mentioned it. It shouldn't be expensive since all it would be is a pin adapter with no need for additional hardware.

If they're going to do that then there's hope they'll make a TG16 adapter, or release a model with wider cart slots for 32x support. I realize 32x is a niche market but being that the emulator already supports it very little effort would be needed to get it running.

[Tanooki]

I think your best bet would be an unofficial coordinated campaign to get another system added, or just a heap of a lot of uncoordinated complaining and begging could get the TG16 added because it's emulated amazingly well and the documentation is easily out there to do it, plus with 100s of games it makes sense. The 32X is a tough sell.

[Leo_A]

They're not programming their own emulators, Tanooki. So how well documented that hardware may be, doesn't really matter.

The biggest question in regards to the technical feasibility of adding in TG16 support would be the state of TG16 emulation on Android, since that's where their software would be sourced from to implement this.

If it's satisfactory, hopefully we get a HuCard adapter someday. If the economics justify a Game Gear cartridge adapter, I'm sure that a Hucard adapter would also be justifiable.


If they're going to do that then there's hope they'll make a TG16 adapter, or release a model with wider cart slots for 32x support. I realize 32x is a niche market but being that the emulator already supports it very little effort would be needed to get it running.

Is there an Android based 32X emulator of satisfactory performance?

I assume that there isn't, at least when this system was being developed, since there's otherwise no reason why they wouldn't of supported it out of the box. If it's came about since then, it's a shame that the Retron 5 cartridge slot can't accommodate 32X cartridges, judging by your post.

If there wasn't a physical barrier to the slightly different proportioned 32X cartridges, all they'd of needed then was to update their firmware.

[Tanooki]

Oh I know that, I just don't care, and when I meant documented I meant source they can use, tool for their toy, and add it in nice and clean. You put it out there publicly, you're asking for it, it's just how the internet works unless you have better lawyers than the other guy. TG16 emulation is potent, Mednafen has an Android release and that one is solid, mind you that's a $4 buy and that dude knowing the name if he didn't license it to his benefit would attack hyperkin if they used it. The problem I think is they are the ONLY one, so it would be you deal with him, get tied down stealing it, or just don't do it. The emulator probably is the only one because it's so damn good no one cares to compete since there is a free ad covered one of it by him as well.

There is another choice though, but I will say this, Libretro (retroarch) does cover both the PCE but I'm uncertain what emulator it uses for that frontend, but the 32X uses PicoDrive which has compatibility problems so that would be a NO on that one.

[Daria]

They stole the source code for their SNES emulator. If you get a retron 5 buy a used one. Don't support that shit.

[Tanooki]

See and to that I would tell anyone to support them and buy it so more products like this come to market because its a nice happy middle ground between emulation and hardware that allows a lot of nice perks. If the SNES9X owner cared that much theyd go after them, and the blowhard libretro doesnt own any of those emulators as theyre just binding public source under a nice front end theyve whipped up so I care to listen to none of that guys whiny grandstanding bullshit as theyre not his emulators either. SNES9x is a hot mess of a lot of people but it comes back to Gary Hendersen I believe the creator was and if he doesnt protest its a moot issue.

[8-Bit Archeology]

I agree to buy one used, The only experience I have had is kind of an isolated test that didn't turn out to well for me. I have a local play n trade that has one hooked up to an hdtv [i do not know if led,lcd,plasma] But If you are a speed runner on fast paced games, your time will be off. It has a noticeable lag to me. Also I do not know if its a video conversion causing this or the controller having an input lag. I know this is not important to most people but if you love fast games on your crt then don't move onto the retron 5. But this is mostly irrelevant simply because most people interested in the retron 5, are looking into it because they dont have a crt and retro consoles. Just a thought. Hope it helps.

[Tanooki]

You're not much to have a fair opinion if you have only used a used one in an isolated test so it's not fair to really say so now is it? The notable lag is dependent not on the system but the poor quality of the television and its ms lag in refresh time. Something that's over the 30ms mark will appear lagged, but if you play one under that or through a computer screen it's solid. I would not expect a store using a cheapo tv for display to go for quality.

My interest is that a CRT is an outdated waste of space with no value other than light guns games at this rate. And it is because I don't have time for long to sit on a TV due to having a 3 year old around where I can play an old 80s or 90s game and hope to get anywhere without shutting it off and since this thing hot saves your spot (or can do solid save/load states) it's an asset. The other emulator perks along with the HDMI crispness all count for something. I mostly play old games from the 20th century on the TV, not modern, and I have no regrets having either of my original systems back in their boxes. In the end that'll be the people shooting for this along with those you said, who want to get into old games and want a good solid well priced catch-all solution and this far beats out any of that retrobit and yobo garbage on the market.

[Gameguy]

I sometimes think about getting one, but then I realize if I really need to play emulated games on my HDTV I can connect my laptop to it via HDMI and it'll do a better job and give me more options. And for a lot of stuff I wouldn't even need to do that and could just use Wii emulators on my Wii U.

If for some reason you're dead set on dumping roms off your carts every time you play, well, then yeah. R5 all the way.

I simplify, I know, there may be other valid reasons for an R5, but to me, they just don't justify the cost. Maybe if it was like $50 or less.
This is the post I agree with the most. Instead of buying one of these for so much money, just use any computer produced in the last 10 years. Plus it would save you the hassle of dumping and re-dumping every game you want to play every single time.

[Tanooki]

Yet again that defeats the purpose of using games you actually paid for. The only want to get there is to get that retrode device, if you can since they don't make it anymore I don't believe, and one for each system you want to play games for which will add up really fast. I agree if you could get them cheaper than the R5 that would be the best way to go bar none, but it's not the case sadly. I'd rather run a line from my laptop to the tv and have a retrode that'll do the NES, SNES, and GBA for all gameboy, so I can fire up stuff via bsnes, fceux, and no$gba but that's just not going to happen.

[Gameguy]

Yet again that defeats the purpose of using games you actually paid for.
Having to redump games each time because the system chooses to delete them defeats the purpose of using an emulation box. When DVDs come with digital copies included, it's not expected that the DVD is useless after the digital version is used(it's a bit pointless including a digital copy as you can just rip any DVD yourself but that's a different issue). People who own rare first edition books might still have an ebook version for more practical use. It's just another option available for convenience, just as playing games you own with emulation doesn't mean owning physical copies are pointless. It would be more convenient to just play the games stored in the console rather than having to get up and get the game you want to play, especially if you keep or move your physical copies into storage later on. You can't store your games away with this console, they have to be kept accessible.

[Leo_A]

You guys are making too much out of it dumping cartridges.

People aren't buying this because they want a clone console that dumps cartridges, nor does it defeat the purpose of a clone system designed to play the libraries of multiple classic systems just because it's setup in this way.

People buy this to play classic games, period. Technicalities with how it's achieved don't enter the equation for almost everyone. And except for a few of the largest games like certain GBA games that have 30-40 second load times, it's almost invisible to the end-user.

It's a near meaningless aspect, outside of someone that happens to be playing a lot of JRPG's on the GBA side and such and are actually affected by the load times, or has a collection of homebrews and other rarities that have spotty identification support at best on the Retron 5. I could side with complaints such as the Retron 5 not maintaining the last dumped cartridge image until a different title is loaded, but I just don't see the issue with its basic operation itself.

It's like the guy that was always saying that SD rom loading "defeats the purpose" of this thing. I thought this was for enjoying classic games? Some people in these threads need to take their blinders off and realize that just because they're not interested in a particular feature, doesn't mean that others aren't. The more well implemented options and features that the Retron 5 has, the better.


It would be more convenient to just play the games stored in the console rather than having to get up and get the game you want to play, especially if you keep or move your physical copies into storage later on. You can't store your games away with this console, they have to be kept accessible.

It would certainly be nice if they'd allow that feature as well. Rom loading, both with your own cartridge images ripped via the Retron 5 itself and stored on an inserted SD card and those you've downloaded, would be a great addition to the Retron 5's repertoire and help complete the circle and truly make this an all-purpose device for playing the libraries of these systems that they've covered

Sadly, I feel as if Hyperkin doesn't have a solid grasp on the legal side of things, and is overly paranoid while other manufacturers, most notably AtGames, have implemented the feature on some of their Genesis systems without any sign of an issue with major publishers like Electronic Arts that heavily supported the Genesis back in the day.

That or they're withholding what would be a major feature addition for the inevitable Retron 5 follow-up, and are just using this legality claim like they did to explain away support for expensive multicarts that many of their primary market have invested in through the years (Despite the fact that the very way that the Retron 5 operates, is the actual reason why they don't work).

[Tanooki]

I'm not making too much about it, other people are. The point of the system is to use real game carts, it doesn't matter if it makes a copy before firing it up, most people probably won't even realize it. Just like most won't have pirate carts, bootlegs, bootlegs lied about being repros, multicarts, or flash kits. It's bought to throw in Mario, Mega Man, Zelda, Castlevania, Turtles and whatever else, that's it.

I find it amazing how many game collectors find this entire concept confusing or that it somehow makes the thing an inconvient lesser or useless box. No, people who think that, don't get it, or choose to not get it for the sake of arguing about the thing or the parent company because they have some vendetta against them. Ultimately to the masses which it's intended for, it's a modern console that runs the old games for a lot of systems and does so with HDMI and lots of nice perks, not because it dumps games and sucks because it can't be a warez box storing all of those copies or because it won't fire up roms directly from the SD card slot. Boo hoo.

The load times on the newest beta release are back to negligible because they restored the fast loading, but yes without that 30sec+ load time sucked.

You're right, Hyperkin is very paranoid. When I was talking with the tech all that time it had come up more than once, and the people in both the US and HK offices are paranoid about NOA or NCL suing the crap out of them for having a warez box because it would allowing it to load and copy(dump) roms make it on the level of the R4, CycloDS, and other goodies Nintendo has been good at trying to stomp out of existence. So they while they can do it in their home office, have it disabled for the public out of fear of an injunction getting them barred from being sold in the US retail on/offiline locations. The feature is being withheld entirely over legal paranoia. They feel even if they were in the right, they don't have the money to sit on to ride out a NOA lawsuit that could tie them up for years and bankrupt them along the way. It's not only always what the law says, but if you can afford to keep in business with your product forced off the market while paying a lot of legal fees too.

[Gameguy]

Sadly, I feel as if Hyperkin doesn't have a solid grasp on the legal side of things, and is overly paranoid while other manufacturers, most notably AtGames, have implemented the feature on some of their Genesis systems without any sign of an issue with major publishers like Electronic Arts that heavily supported the Genesis back in the day.

That or they're withholding what would be a major feature addition for the inevitable Retron 5 follow-up, and are just using this legality claim like they did to explain away support for expensive multicarts that many of their primary market have invested in through the years (Despite the fact that the very way that the Retron 5 operates, is the actual reason why they don't work).
I'm going to assume like you that they withheld the feature for a possible upgraded version, hoping people will rebuy it later on the same way Nintendo keeps remaking versions of their consoles. Otherwise it's baffling to me that Hyperkin would be so cautious with possible legal issues with people possibly abusing their console to pirate games, yet simultaneously have no problems with stealing the emulators that their console will use to play the games. It's like not wanting to park illegally while you run into a store to rob it.

While backing up games to a removable SD card would be most convenient, even just backing up games to an internal memory storage would be fine. It's like giving the option to install games to a hard drive with more modern consoles, except you wouldn't need a hard drive as the games are so small. If you can only play games backed up yourself, there's no issue of piracy. Having the SD card slot does allow you to apply translation patches, but that's what's allowing people to play pirated games on it right now. Having an internal storage memory instead would eliminate this entirely. What's a more convenient option to have, allowing translation patches or eliminating cart swapping?


As for other possible reasoning with this console as presented by Tanooki, there are several things I just don't agree with. Namely that this is just for "casual players". It's for people who have physical copies of old games, games out of production for over 20 years and not available in regular retail stores anymore. The only way people have games for this console is if they go out of their way to find copies at specialty stores or buying them online. If it's for people who just want to play their old games again, would they be willing to pay $140 on impulse? Most likely these people would only have a few games for one or two systems anyway, why would they pay so much for compatibility with 5 consoles which includes imports? It's not an impulse purchase, especially since it's only available online or at specialty retailers. If people found games for cheap at a yard sale, most likely they'll not want to pay much for the consoles either. Personally I could find all legitimate systems compatible with the same games for less than $140, if it's just about the cheapest option to play actual cartridges.

If it's aimed at actual collectors(the people who actually would care about playing multiple consoles including imports, stuff casual players won't have), I find it a poor assumption to say that most won't care or pay attention to how it actually works. Though it wouldn't surprise me if plenty of people out there collecting games were just ignorant and loose with cash, I'm assuming that's not who this console is specifically aimed at. There's the whole compatibility with HDMI for modern displays, but if you don't care about having an authentic display for the games which includes light gun support, why would you care about running authentic carts? Using it on an HDTV is more convenient, having to access all of your games isn't convenient.

Right now for me, I don't have shelves full of games. They're stored in boxes because I don't have a lot of space. I don't play my games as often as I'd like because I'd have to unpack them and pack them back up afterwards, looking for specific games would take time too. The Retron 5 won't help me with that, I would still need to dig out my carts every time I want to play them. Makes no sense when you can just play them all on a PC in the same quality, just more conveniently. Or you can burn games to disc with emulators and play them on consoles, or more modernly with USB sticks.

As for Hyperkin fearing a lawsuit from Nintendo as it would sink them, it's the same reason they feel it's ok to steal the code from emulators. They know the creators of the emulators can't afford the legal costs to take them to court, so Hyperkin has no problem with stealing from them.

[Leo_A]

Namely that this is just for "casual players". It's for people who have physical copies of old games, games out of production for over 20 years and not available in regular retail stores anymore. The only way people have games for this console is if they go out of their way to find copies at specialty stores or buying them online. If it's for people who just want to play their old games again, would they be willing to pay $140 on impulse?

I agree

I debated this quite a bit in earlier threads, but I feel strongly that they've all but priced themselves out of the casual marketplace that past clones like the Retro Duo likely derived a significant percentage of their sales from.

This thing is primarily aimed directly at us. That said, I don't agree that the fact that it dumps cartridges is relevant for most, nor do I think it's pointless that it has cartridge support.

But I certainly agree that they've missed the boat by also not allowing us the option to store the images that we've ripped (And either allow us to load it up without the cartridge inserted by selecting it from a menu, or perhaps near instantly load it up without bothering to fully dump it yet again or messing around with a menu when the original cartridge is loaded and identified).

That and support for rom images loaded by the user to their SD card should've been basic functionality. This is no more illegal than any MP3 player is. There are fully legal uses for it, but if we don't kid ourselves, the majority of their use is centered on copyright infringement. Yet they're fully legal and acceptable devices to design, manufacturer, sell, and use.

[YoshiM]

You'd be amazed at the power of nostalgia or those who have none that find the classics interesting and have money burning a hole in their pockets.

The term "specialty store" makes a game store sound like it's some rare thing that's not for the unwashed heathens of casual gamer. The city I work in, which has about 50K people, has three stores that carry pretty much all generations of games along with other items of interest. A smaller city 30 some miles north has TWO. In these areas of Wisconsin, that's huge compared to even five years ago. And in both places, these stores are not "out of the way".

Back when Gamestop (or was it EB?) started carrying NES and such older games again, some adults would see the titles and get excited and would buy the old with whatever new they were getting. Some would chatter about going online to get a system or more games. This was probably a decade ago. Now with retro being even more en vogue, what would be the big deal dropping $130 on a Retron that can play a bunch of popular games folks may already have on their big screens? NES may look like creamed corn on a 52" LCD and play worse but with the Retro it can be a grand experience.

Also, and I may be dated, would the casual gamer go out searching for ROMs and know what to do with them? I still run into people, young and older, that use their devices like one uses a car- they use it but don't know a lick on how it works or what to do under the hood. If it runs, they are happy?.

[Leo_A]

You'd be amazed at the power of nostalgia or those who have none that find the classics interesting and have money burning a hole in their pockets.

And when they see a $50 clone that offers support for most of the software that's covered here, guess which one usually wins out for this segment?

They're casuals and few are going to do their homework to understand what the strengths are for this. They're going to see a much cheaper option that will play NES, Genesis, and SuperNES games and go for that choice instead.

The Retron 5 marketplace is primarily folks like ourselves.

[Tanooki]

Perhaps so for some, but not others. They'll see a NES clone a SNES clone another one, the price of a gameboy advance sp and so on and it's cheaper to get an all in one box that does HDMI so it works the best on their HD TV. Those garbage $50 boxes are just RCA only and most places I've been that sell them the employees talk them down as garbage and upsell the real hardware for another ten bucks or something. The R5 marketplace is for anyone who isn't just isn't only one console, and the more they're into the more likely it's a money saver with perks.

Yoshi is also right about that last part -- smart enough to turn on the car, but don't know crap about the rest. There's plenty of people that have no clue ROMS or emulators are online, or they may see it in a passing google search after some old games and just blow it off as it's not a sales site or understand how that even works and let's it go. Stuff like the R5 or even a trashy yobo that's a 1/3 of the price is for people who want and have no clue how to get or set it up over than a couple of wires, a controller, and the game thingy that goes in the top to make them happy. Throw them in front of a browser, windows explorer, and say go for it, find an emulator for .... and then games for it, they'll be likely screwed, and even if they did find it, would they be able to even configure it let alone fire up a game? Probably not.

[Leo_A]

Perhaps so for some, but not others. They'll see a NES clone a SNES clone another one, the price of a gameboy advance sp and so on and it's cheaper to get an all in one box that does HDMI so it works the best on their HD TV.

And how many people that have their curiosity piqued outside of the dedicated classic gaming fan, actually have an interest in taking advantage of the Retron 5's full range of compatibility? I doubt many of the few casual buyers they've lured have purchased it with an eye towards enjoying the library of more than two or three different platforms.


Those garbage $50 boxes are just RCA only

Again, we're talking casual buyers. Some of which will be buying simply out of impulse.

Not the type of person that's likely to investigate to see how it's connected, why one method is more desirable than the other, etc. They see a clone system that plays some favorite games of their childhood and if they're hooked, they buy it on the spot. The Retron 5's price just makes it all that much harder for someone that notices this in the store to make that leap since they won't see much past the price and what platforms that it supports.

And if they're interested and actually look around to do some basic investigation of their options, chances are that it won't go much past price when making their decision on which to purchase. The cheapest option that plays the games that they're interested in is a tall order to beat for the Retron 5 in this marketplace.

There's little doubt I think that the casual buyer represents the minority of Hyperkin's business here.

[Gameguy]

This thing is primarily aimed directly at us. That said, I don't agree that the fact that it dumps cartridges is relevant for most, nor do I think it's pointless that it has cartridge support.

But I certainly agree that they've missed the boat by also not allowing us the option to store the images that we've ripped (And either allow us to load it up without the cartridge inserted by selecting it from a menu, or perhaps near instantly load it up without bothering to fully dump it yet again or messing around with a menu when the original cartridge is loaded and identified).

I was never against including cartridge support. Basically if it allowed you to plug in a cartridge and back it up internally, that would be all the convenience really needed. There would be another use of the console as a cart dumper for protos if you could transfer the dumps later on, but even without that feature available it would be usable with internal storage. If you're planning on visiting an old buddy that now lives far away and you want to play your old games with him like back in the day, it would be easier to just take along a single console with everything saved rather than be forced to drag along your games too. As you've mentioned with your example of an MP3 player, it's something more convenient than listening to MP3s on a computer or laptop.

It's similar to why I kept Gameboy multicarts over a decade ago, I had the individual games included on the carts(at least the ones I enjoyed playing) but it was just easier to carry around one cart rather than a bag full of loose games, less of a chance of losing any games too. With a home system, it's easier to just play everything off one box rather than keep going to a shelf or through boxes to swap out the games. If we're not going with pure authenticity, then it would be pure convenience.



The term "specialty store" makes a game store sound like it's some rare thing that's not for the unwashed heathens of casual gamer. The city I work in, which has about 50K people, has three stores that carry pretty much all generations of games along with other items of interest. A smaller city 30 some miles north has TWO. In these areas of Wisconsin, that's huge compared to even five years ago. And in both places, these stores are not "out of the way".
Specialty stores are just stores that specialize is certain items for a niche target market, it doesn't mean they're necessarily rare. Bicycle shops are like this, they're common but more specialized than any department store selling basic/low end bikes. Or stores dealing with high end audio equipment, plenty of people are interested in this but not the majority of people. Most casual consumers will shop at general department or big box stores, look at what's carried in Wal-Mart, Target, or Best Buy. Gamestop isn't really a specialty store, they just carry current modern consoles and games, not even PS2 stuff anymore at most locations. I don't believe the Retron 5 is available at Gamestop either.

Not the specialty store I'm thinking of;

http://i57.tinypic.com/5e68ld.jpg


Also, and I may be dated, would the casual gamer go out searching for ROMs and know what to do with them? I still run into people, young and older, that use their devices like one uses a car- they use it but don't know a lick on how it works or what to do under the hood. If it runs, they are happy?.
I'm assuming that by using a car, they still know how to operate it along with most of the features like the radio or Bluetooth. Repairing or maintaining it would be different. The same way knowing how to use a computer is different from upgrading or repairing a computer.

Emulators for computers have been around for well over a decade, it's not like they're something new and unfamiliar. Plus, if someone would know how to use a Retron 5 with all of it's features, including savestates, filters, cheats, ROM patching, and essentially mandatory firmware upgrades, how could they also not figure out how to get and use emulator software on a computer?

Plus there's a bit of a difference with casual gamer and casual consumer. I'll use movies as an example. A casual general consumer would just watch whatever is playing in theaters and buy current releases on DVD, mass marketed common stuff. A casual movie enthusiast would look into more obscure films, but is happy to just download them or watch them on a streaming service. A serious movie buff would collect physical copies, search for variants and alternate versions, and care about a high image quality with correct aspect ratios and proper framing, essentially wanting everything to be as perfect as possible.

[Tanooki]

Sad thing is no one here is going to agree on this thing as the opinions and fact are set in stone. This is an old gamers site, things like this tend to not be looked upon all that well, nor are things that won't allow warezy level stuff to work either because let's face it, if you're into old games and running them still you're probably into swiping and using ROMs too. Then you have all the fools who are playing the politician role but verbally being an arm chair lawyer with no damn clue and no stake in the case over where some of their source code came from. All that said you either like it (or the company) or hate it. A place like this, a rom discussion (w/out links) site like a gbatemp, and other retro places who dig this deep into it will never have an honest look at it from the side of the mass market ooooh I remember mario type buyer of these things.

[ibain]

I bought mine on launch day, no issues so far. The few things that annoyed me have been patched.

The biggest advantage for me, besides all the obvious stuff, is the ability to language patch games. I've easily saved what I spent on the system by not buying repro carts of Japanese RPGs that never made it to the US. Plus, some are just cheaper over there.

No complaints or regrets.

[Leo_A]

Did they ever introduce 3rd party controller support? Seen quite a few requests for Dual Shock 3 support for instance.

While I love original wired controller support, I'd also love the option to use a high quality wireless controller as well.

[YoshiM]

Anyone ever try the Genesis version of Populous on the Retron 5? If so, how did it play, look, etc.?

[T2KFreeker]

I finally got my hands on one of these systems. It's awesome. I don't care what anyone says, for what it is supposed to do, it does it and does it well. Famicom support is outstanding and the control pad works quite nicely if you don't have original controllers. Everything we threw at it worked fine. No Multi carts or Flash Carts were used, so wouldn't know, but official stuff worked just fine. It's well worth the money. Hyperkin did a really good job on this one, in my opinion. Oh, and the construction is quite solid. It doesn't feel cheap in my hands at all. Very impressed there.

[Koop]

I bought mine on launch day, no issues so far. The few things that annoyed me have been patched.

The biggest advantage for me, besides all the obvious stuff, is the ability to language patch games. I've easily saved what I spent on the system by not buying repro carts of Japanese RPGs that never made it to the US. Plus, some are just cheaper over there.

No complaints or regrets.

Yea the patch feature is really slick. I enjoy my retron 5, it does what it does well and brings interesting features like this to the table.

[T2KFreeker]

On a side note, when I was reviewing stuff, the Hyperkin stuff was much nicer than much of the other clone stuff I reviewed. Yobo was meh and Innex was just, well, I'll just say they weren't the best. Hyperkin at least seemed to care about the quality of the items they were manufacturing. I know, cheapest stuff they can find made in China, but the stuff always seemed to be solid. Again, say what you will about it not being first party stuff, but it was still well put together stuff and the Retron 5 is no different. VERY well built. It's a tank. Just saying. Also, the carrying case for it is really nice too. A nice little addition for a clone system, if you haven't seen it.

[Emperor Megas]

Anyone ever try the Genesis version of Populous on the Retron 5? If so, how did it play, look, etc.?Yeah, it doesn't load at all. Not on my machine, anyway. Let me try it on my X'Eye to make sure it's not the cart...

. . .

Hmmm, it doesn't load on my X'EYE either. I wonder, do I have a wonky cart, or is there some chip or hardware configuration that prevents other systems from running this game? My Genesis console are packed away in a tote somewhere, so I can't test it on one of them right now.

[Gameguy]

Hmmm, it doesn't load on my X'EYE either. I wonder, do I have a wonky cart, or is there some chip or hardware configuration that prevents other systems from running this game? My Genesis console are packed away in a tote somewhere, so I can't test it on one of them right now.
It won't run on a console with a lockout chip, basically only on the first version of the Genesis. It's one of the few early unlicensed games made for the system. Unless you have a Game Genie to bypass it, which may or may not work.

[Emperor Megas]

I have a Genesis Game Genie. I've never used it or any other game Genie, so I guess it's as good a time as any to test it out. Let's see.

. . .

Hmph, I'll be damned. It loads on the JVC X'EYE with the Game Genie, but it still doesn't load on the Retron5. Well, I learned something new today.

[Tanooki]

the R5 probably is trying to dump the Game Genie instead of the game.

[lendelin]

It was in July when I asked the Q about the R5, finally last week I bought one. It took me some time to start the reorganization of my gameroom (reason: laziness), but now I have the Retron 5, next buy is a WiiU and then a PS4.

Her is so far my experience with the system.

It is good. Actually, very good. I'd buy one again, but still it didn't fulfill the big expectations I had. It is a great supplementary system, but certainly not a replacement of the original consoles.


The images are fantastic, no doubt. The vivid colors, color saturation, contrast, the sharpness to the last pixel, the images are just great. I'm a bit disappointed with the images of the SNES games, they look very pixely (in contrast to the NES games and most Genesis games) and require one of the image filter which I don't like to use. But I think this is actually not the fault of the Retron 5 but of my 50inch HDTV. Not only for the SNES games but for all games I think the system is best played on a smaller screen, probably on a 32inch TV.

Why am I then a bit disappointed? For one, it is the overall feeling which didn't give me the authentic experience. This overall irrational reason has actually a very rational aspect. The games play slightly different, very slightly in some cases and hardly noticeable, but still there is a difference between the original consoles on a standard CRT and the R5 on an HDTV.

I played and compared around 10 to 15 games. For games like Zelda (NES and SNES) a more sluggish feeling and a possibly hardly noticeable input lag is not important. But for heavy action games like Ninja Gaiden and the Castlevanias it is. Ninja Gaiden came very close to the original, but the difference was enough to cost me some lives. :) The same goes for the first and third Castlevania. In order to make sure that these are not the rusty game skills of an old man I played immediately the same game on the original console. The difference was undoubtedly there, I rushed through my beloved Ninja Gaiden (well, at least the first four stages, you know that later on it gets more difficult :) ) The jumps and slashes of the whips were a tad lighter and more responsive. A very slight differnce, but a difference.

One thing surprised me. I have a couple of German games, and they did not play so well. The input lag was there (not really bad but noticeable), and overall it was slower. I put the TV on Game Mode, and made changes to the settings (forced 50Hz, changed the region from automatic to Europe), but to no avail. I tried this with the first Castlevania and the first Mega Man. Faxanadu, however, showed no difference between the German and American Version.

This is important to me because I intend to buy the three Parodius games which came never out in the US. (I found it terrible since I first read in a game magazine in the 90s about the Parodius games) Did someone of you had similar experinces with Japanese games?

Overall, I'm very satisfied with the Retron 5. It is agreat option to play the 8bit and 16bit games in HD glory and discover some 'true' colors and structures in games although the objects and characters have less 'volume' and appear to be 'flat' but I knew that from my experience 15 years ago with the Nesticle. (Didn't try out the Gameboy games) But I would always prefer the original consoles on a standard CRT, even (and that might surprise a lot of you) when it comes to image quality alone.

Has someone of you tried RGB for the older consoles? (Scart and Scart to HDMI converters) Are the images of RGB very similar to the Retron 5? Is it worth seriously thinking about putting older systems on RGB?

PS: I forgot to mention that Gamestop started to sell the Retron 5 for an introduction price of $100. Luckily, I discovered that just before buying one. Amazon sells it for $125. I also forgot to mention that so far I didn't succeed to upgrade the system. The version is the newest, but the application data I couldn't upgrade. (At first I had on the SD card the request file, didn't work on the website, I deleted it on the card, and now the system just gives me an error message when I try to get the upgrade request file on my SD card.) I mention that because I didn't get the cheat options which would certainly increase the fun of the system for difficult games of which I never saw the last stages. :)

[Tanooki]

If you used the R5 and the 10-15 game son the original hardware on the same TV, it's 100% completely in your head faking yourself out. The system itself has no input lag at all when you're using your own controller vs bluetooth which has a little. It's 1:1 as it should be with an original system, the only time it may not is with some games if you're using multiple graphic filters it can slide on the frame rate slightly, much like a frame skip you'll get off an emulator.

The pixel effect you're thinking is a negative on the SNES, that's up to the TV size you have. Any system will do it, and all are equally noticeable too because it's taking the raw feed and displaying it with perfect sharpness you'd expect on a computer LCD/LED screen from an emulator with no filters active so it's just very very crisp.

The german stuff (PAL) it's possible it could be running off since they're made for 50hz not 60 which is NTSC so you can get speed issues or at least the music will run at the wrong pacing. I've had the PAL Parodius cart in the past and it would run the music a bit quicker, maybe the game too, can't compare now as I just have the Famicom cart, but it also did cut off the score (but not the options bar) at the bottom partly.

I'll say this much if you do Gameboy, I'd suggest if you are that afraid of chunky and blocky, play it in the original aspect ratio in a box or you'll get really annoyed by it fast. GBA games look the blockiest due to the higher color/depth of visuals it has over earlier 16bit consoles and 8bit as it falls in line but far worse in your impression of the SNES output.

[Leo_A]

GameStop has it for $140 right now online.

Was that an in-store price?

[Tanooki]

Isn't $140 the normal price? Others sell it for less according to a fast google search. NewEgg/Thinkgeek at $128-130 range. Gameinstock.com for $120.

Here's ebay new $110 free shipping. (Gray, BIN sale)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hyperkin-RetroN-5-Retro-Video-Gaming-System-Grey-Brand-New-Factory-Sealed-/231860704789?hash=item35fbf99615:g:-0kAAOSwDNdV6D5P

Or black for $125 also a BIN.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hyperkin-RetroN-5-Retro-Video-Gaming-System-Gray-/222000141706?hash=item33b03d558a:g:iMQAAOSwcBhWVB-E

If you don't mind used but still CIB, seems they go for around $70.

[Az]

I'm a bit disappointed with the images of the SNES

That was probably the biggest issue I have with gameplay on the console, all SNES games look too blocky. Like you I'm perfectly fine playing all the other systems without any filters and I actually prefer a sharp, well defined pixel image, but their SNES output...yeesh. It's not TV size either because I've got mine hooked up to a cheap 22" 16:9 HDTV and the results are the same. A game like Mortal Kombat II with digitized images looks shockingly awful. Due to the way the SNES image is displayed I always use a filter, and none of the available ones are quite to the level I prefer. It seems like even the "weakest" filter is too much, and why anyone would even play with the stronger ones is beyond me.

I started getting into high score attacks a few carts like pinball and classic arcade era ports so I've been enjoying the automatic save states immensely here lately. It's great to be able to save high scores in Crue Ball and Jaki Crush with no effort.

[lendelin]

If you used the R5 and the 10-15 game son the original hardware on the same TV, it's 100% completely in your head faking yourself out. The system itself has no input lag at all when you're using your own controller vs bluetooth which has a little. It's 1:1 as it should be with an original system, the only time it may not is with some games if you're using multiple graphic filters it can slide on the frame rate slightly, much like a frame skip you'll get off an emulator.

The pixel effect you're thinking is a negative on the SNES, that's up to the TV size you have. Any system will do it, and all are equally noticeable too because it's taking the raw feed and displaying it with perfect sharpness you'd expect on a computer LCD/LED screen from an emulator with no filters active so it's just very very crisp.

The german stuff (PAL) it's possible it could be running off since they're made for 50hz not 60 which is NTSC so you can get speed issues or at least the music will run at the wrong pacing. I've had the PAL Parodius cart in the past and it would run the music a bit quicker, maybe the game too, can't compare now as I just have the Famicom cart, but it also did cut off the score (but not the options bar) at the bottom partly.

I'll say this much if you do Gameboy, I'd suggest if you are that afraid of chunky and blocky, play it in the original aspect ratio in a box or you'll get really annoyed by it fast. GBA games look the blockiest due to the higher color/depth of visuals it has over earlier 16bit consoles and 8bit as it falls in line but far worse in your impression of the SNES output.

The problems I had with Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden were there, they weren't imagined. I'm very critical in this regard, and I know if people say 'I'm not sure, I think it's better or worse', in almost all cases this is imagination.

I had probs with Ninja Gaiden I never had before, very slight problems, but since I know the game well, it made me mistrustful at first. I continued playing for about 20 minutes, and had the same feeling overall. I thought I might have imagined it, therefore I played right away the game on the CRT with the NES, and immediately I noticed the difference. The jumps felt lighter, the slashing was just a tad more accurate. I went back to the R5, and noticed the difference again. Same goes for Castlevania. However, the difference was almost not there for Ninja Gaiden 2 and Ninja Gaiden 3, same goes for Mega Man 3 and 4. However, I noticed (and checked) the difference for Mega Man X (didn't test X2 and X3).

It might also be that it is the TV. Are HDTVs in this regard different than CRTs? Are older games played best on CRTs? I have no clue, just spculations. I should have played the original console on the HDTV as well.

That the games were a bit sluggish when it comes to my German games, that was very obvious. (Not a big thing, mind you, but it was there for sure) And the changed settings (Game mode, 50HZ, region) didn't help. The first Mega Man and Castlevania felt different, the first boss fight in Castlevania (the big bat) felt very different and I noticed that it was actually a big difference when I did the Boss fight on the original console.

I didn't try the Gameboy games becasue I have only ten anyway, and I'm very satisfied playing them on the Gamboy Player with the GameCube (component in progressive scan), and they look incredibly good! :) A bit pixely and blocky, but still very good and sharp. That's why I didn't plug them in.

Why most Genesis games don't look so blocky like the SNES games, I really don't know. When I use the filter 'Scale2x' it looks good. For all the other games a filter is not necessary, they look just fantastic!

Oh, one exception: Donkey Kong Country! I don't know why, but the first DKC (didn't plug in the other two) don't look good; might be the different rendered technology the Rare brothers developed?

But overall it is a very good system, I'm really glad I have it. I compared the same game screens on the CRT and the HDTV, it is a HUGE difference. However, I have to say, I was more impressed with the images of the Dreamcast when I put it two weeks ago on VGA (and then on an HDMI upscaler because unfortunately almost all newer TVs don't have a VGA input anymore). I never played Dreamcast games with such great images, the difference to S-Video is BIG. So, for all of you who are hesitant, buy a VGA Box (best: Hanzo) and an HDMI upscaler (with some cables you need it will cost about $100 altogether), and I promise you you'll be a very happy Dreamcast gamer. :) It is very easy to do, and the result is awesome.

[lendelin]

GameStop has it for $140 right now online.

Was that an in-store price?

Yes, it was an in-store pre-order, about two weeks ago. The manager of a Gamestop talked to me about collecting and older games and mentioned that GS starts to sell the Retron 5 for 100. I was glad that I didn't order it from Amazon the same morning. :)

[lendelin]

Isn't $140 the normal price? Others sell it for less according to a fast google search. NewEgg/Thinkgeek at $128-130 range. Gameinstock.com for $120.

Here's ebay new $110 free shipping. (Gray, BIN sale)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hyperkin-RetroN-5-Retro-Video-Gaming-System-Grey-Brand-New-Factory-Sealed-/231860704789?hash=item35fbf99615:g:-0kAAOSwDNdV6D5P

Or black for $125 also a BIN.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hyperkin-RetroN-5-Retro-Video-Gaming-System-Gray-/222000141706?hash=item33b03d558a:g:iMQAAOSwcBhWVB-E

If you don't mind used but still CIB, seems they go for around $70.

Yeah, for the last six months I saw it only for $140. It seems that in the last couple of weeks the price went down to about 120 to 125. If Gamestop still sells it as an in-store order for $100 I do not know.

[lendelin]

That was probably the biggest issue I have with gameplay on the console, all SNES games look too blocky. Like you I'm perfectly fine playing all the other systems without any filters and I actually prefer a sharp, well defined pixel image, but their SNES output...yeesh. It's not TV size either because I've got mine hooked up to a cheap 22" 16:9 HDTV and the results are the same. A game like Mortal Kombat II with digitized images looks shockingly awful. Due to the way the SNES image is displayed I always use a filter, and none of the available ones are quite to the level I prefer. It seems like even the "weakest" filter is too much, and why anyone would even play with the stronger ones is beyond me.

I started getting into high score attacks a few carts like pinball and classic arcade era ports so I've been enjoying the automatic save states immensely here lately. It's great to be able to save high scores in Crue Ball and Jaki Crush with no effort.

Interesting, even on a smaller screen it looks blocky and too pixely? I assumed on a smaller size screen the effect would disappear.

I had almost the same image quality when I played recently the PS1 'Castlevania Chronicles' on my PS3. First thought: Why oh why don't I have the space in my gameroom for my old 32inch HDTV from 2007? :) (which still has S-video and a VGA input)

[Tanooki]

It might also be that it is the TV. Are HDTVs in this regard different than CRTs? Are older games played best on CRTs? I have no clue, just spculations. I should have played the original console on the HDTV as well.

Why most Genesis games don't look so blocky like the SNES games, I really don't know. When I use the filter 'Scale2x' it looks good. For all the other games a filter is not necessary, they look just fantastic!

Oh, one exception: Donkey Kong Country! I don't know why, but the first DKC (didn't plug in the other two) don't look good; might be the different rendered technology the Rare brothers developed?


To your first question - Are HDTVs different than CRTs in this regard? YES. The CRT displays what the system spits out natural 1:1, it won't lag. Any HDTV will have some form of processing time, if not from stupid built in filters, but from the fact it needs to take that 240p signal and upscale it to a level the TV can output. Each compamy, each model(which vary internally aside from panel size) can process the data differently and as it does this, it adds input lag because the more it needs to chew on it to spit it out so it can be displayed allows the game to run out of sync X amount of milliseconds which for timing pissy old CRT games can be a problem. displaylag.com will explain ti better and show TVs where they're low enough (30ms and below) where you won't feel it. Mine I researched, it's at 25ms, and I can handle those, Punchout, shooters like Gradius, etc just fine. That's why I said what I did and how I said it, IF you played the 10-15 on the same TV (which you didn't, you used a CRT.) Plug that old console into the HDTV through the RCA jack, watch it lag out too as you described it. Go into your TV, see if the HDTV has a GAME MODE or if you can manually disable every bit of processing (filters, etc) it does to iron out visuals for movie watching and the sort and it should improve. My current TV you can disable every single filter which is why it can get by just through GAME MODE, but my older one I had to manually disable all the stuff on the Panasonic Viera I had (current is a Vizio) and it was fine.

I think the Genesis games look less blocky because they don't display graphics the same way Nintendo does theirs, and they also lack the color and added filters the SNES has which I think would play a factor into them looking less chunky.

DKC (and other ACM graphics games DKC2+3, Killer Instinct) would all look like crap. They're using a higher color table than most SNES games and using display tricks to get the color quality and smoothness up to where Nintendo could back in the mid 90s gloat they could keep up with 32bit systems visually. By using the 2xsai filter or whichever you are would take those very finely tuned and blended colors and visuals and just muddy them up badly. It's kind of like when someone used AA overkill on a N64 game ported from PSX and it would look splotchy or muddy and get dinged in online reviews over it.


Try something out for yourself and the others here since the thread is active. Take your NES, pop it into your HDTV, play Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden again, see if you have problems.

[Tanooki]

That was probably the biggest issue I have with gameplay on the console, all SNES games look too blocky. Like you I'm perfectly fine playing all the other systems without any filters and I actually prefer a sharp, well defined pixel image, but their SNES output...yeesh. It's not TV size either because I've got mine hooked up to a cheap 22" 16:9 HDTV and the results are the same. A game like Mortal Kombat II with digitized images looks shockingly awful. Due to the way the SNES image is displayed I always use a filter, and none of the available ones are quite to the level I prefer. It seems like even the "weakest" filter is too much, and why anyone would even play with the stronger ones is beyond me.

I started getting into high score attacks a few carts like pinball and classic arcade era ports so I've been enjoying the automatic save states immensely here lately. It's great to be able to save high scores in Crue Ball and Jaki Crush with no effort.

Genesis and SNES (in my other post) just don't output visuals similarly at all. The SNES just fails to put out what you're looking for since it has more colors and more complexity into how it spits out an image than the more basic Genesis. Also ever notice the fine image of the Genesis in some games you'll see those vertical lines through everything almost like a vertical scanline, maybe that has a hand in it too.

And while I don't do high score attacks, I do love that auto-save feature when you bail to the menu. It's the #1 reason I got the thing because I have a little girl and she makes it hard to just play stuff. I find I can accomplish things again because I can dabble for 5min here 30min there and if someone walks in, I just menu, then power off -- and I'm right back on the high score, the stage, the world, whatever I'm in some game. I got 3 worlds into Mr Gimmick on the weekend, no battery, but on R5 it's like I have one. :D

[calgon]

With regard to lag on the R5,

I ran a test using a modded wii running mega man using a gamecube controller and did not notice any discernible lag. That's not to say there wasn't any, however after playing the game for years I would say it has to be under a millisecond or two.

I then used my R5 with a NES controller and noticed more prominent lag. Finally I hooked up an original NES and while the screen blurred a bit when scrolling, i did not detect any lag. That was enough to get rid of the r5 for me. Also wasn't a fan of waiting for the rom to load.

[Gameguy]

To your first question - Are HDTVs different than CRTs in this regard? YES. The CRT displays what the system spits out natural 1:1, it won't lag. Any HDTV will have some form of processing time, if not from stupid built in filters, but from the fact it needs to take that 240p signal and upscale it to a level the TV can output.
I thought the R5 output video in high definition over HDMI, if it just outputs a standard 240p signal that needs to be upscaled then I don't see much advantage to using an emulation box. If it's outputting a high definition signal like I think it is then the lag is caused by something else besides the TV.

[Leo_A]

Retron 5 upscales to 720p, as I recall.

It certainly takes time to process and by definition, can't technically be lag free. While one user reports zero lag, the Retron 5 could still be introducing just enough where suddenly it's noticeable to another user on a different television when it's combined with a slightly inferior HDTV scaling chip than the other guy has or if they just have a different sensitivity level to the issue.

He presumably doesn't notice input lag on with modern consoles outputting an image matching the set's native resolution, but his set could take slightly more time than the other person's does to process non-conforming pictures like if it's a 1080p set that can't display 720p as-is. That tv difference combined with the Retron 5's built-in post-processing delay could easily create noticeable input lag for one person on their "lag-free" tv while feeling perfectly fine for another on their tv that they also feel is free of input lag.

[Sailorneorune]

I liked my Retron 5 (Alcahest! Sailor Moon: Another Story! Both in English with actual carts! :-D) ...until the Famicom port went out. It's on its way back to Hyperkin, and I'm hoping they'll honor the warranty even though I didn't directly (we need a "directly" smiley because Mr. Iwata's friends still do it!) get it from them.

Stay tuned...

[Tanooki]

If you have a receipt with a date, and it's under the 1yr warranty, they'll honor it or at least should. I didn't buy mine from them when the gray one started getting pissy about NES carts. Ended up with a rocky road to replacement, but ended up with a model 2 black one that has been right ever since.

[PizzaKat]

Hi guys. Can anyone tell me if they have experienced the R5 wiping out save files? I read this somewhere before and was wondering if anyone has experienced any issues. Also have you had to clean your old games really good r else it wouldn't work more smoothly? Thanks

[otaku]

i keep seeing these at the local indie game store and thinking about it as it would be super convenient but it sounds like an expensive hassle

[calgon]

i keep seeing these at the local indie game store and thinking about it as it would be super convenient but it sounds like an expensive hassle

If you want a more accurate experience I'd go super retro trio. It's cheaper, the games load instantly and you can use the original controllers. Also plays everdrives.

[eskobar]

The problem with SNES is the Scaling ... in a CRT monitor, the electron guns leave spaces and display the image in 4:3 ratio and it looks incredible, CRT monitors don't have fixed resolution and can display a variety of resolutions natively. In LCD TVs, that have fixed resolution you only have 1 native resolution and all images are scaled.

The SNES resolution is quite low, 256 x 224, so the images were always blocky but the CRT technology made it look flawless, but the sprites of the characters and enemy always looked chubby because of this. When you scale the image it depends on the method you use to scale pixels. You can use better hardware, like Framemeister and many other upscalers/scan converters.

[lendelin]

After having hours of fun with Super Mario 3D World lately I inserted my beloved Castlevania IV for the Super NES into the Retron 5.

I got a bit mad. :) I had difficulties to get the jumps right on the switching platforms, and even the last fight with Dracula, certainly not a big challenge, went wrong. I played the cartridge on my CRT with my old Super NES, and voila -- no problems.

Playing the Retron 5 is a little bit like real life. When I jump, I feel slightly overweight and too old.

Now I have 8 months of experience with the Retron 5, and for difficult action platformers like Ninja Gaiden, Battletoads and the Castlevanias there is just some input lag. Also for the Mega Mans (NES and Super NES). I have the TV on game mode (which helps a bit), but the feeling is just not right, it feels just a tad sluggish, but as you all know for these kind of games it is a big difference. I even had problems with the disappearing platforms in Startropics.

I don't know if it is the Retron 5 itself or HDTVs, more accurately: MY HDTV. (50" Samsung) But I don't care. It doesn't make a difference because the Retron 5 with its HDMI output in 720p is made for HDTVs.

Nevertheless, I would buy it again. But a replacement console it is not. I play more on my old systems and the old TV than I play the Retron 5. However, for RPGs and other non-action games the Retron 5 is a fantastic system!

[Tanooki]

Blame the TV entirely. I've got the same game and it isn't an issue for me. If your TV has a display lag rating basically over 30ms you'll feel the lag when you try and stick platforms as you said in that game. I had the same problems years earlier thinking I had a broken copy of Mario Allstars Wii on a TV I once owned as the Wii was on the main TV in the place which has a poorer display lag rating. I started flipping out thinking I was losing it because I couldn't even jump on a goomba with a running hop in World 2 of SMB3 on there. I then tried the same (on cart original) game on the other TV which has my classic systems on it so I concluded the game broke and sold it. A few years later, Wii now on the good TV, it ran fine, realized it was the stupid TV and not the game so I kept that one until I sold my Wii setup off pissed at NIntendo over it and the WiiU selling both.

Funny you note it, but I've got a 46" Samsung which was the bad TV for it, a new(then) LED TV set, I got due to a work bonus. I took it back to my years older Panasonic Viera I had at the time, and its display lag was so low it was like a CRT. I recall seeing many (pretty much all in the larger sizes) Samsung TVs having some of the shittiest display lag problems even their game mode didn't clean up well. I'm actually using my deceased grandma's 32" Samsung now, found on displaylag.com it has a 1 or 2ms less rating than my solid 29" Vizio I had been using (so I stored it as a backup.) When the Viera got cracked (kid) I freaked, researched, found that Vizio (2-3 years ago now) and best buy had it local so I tested the waters and it worked.

That's the problem with any of these flat panel HDTV sets. They have no set standard between makers let alone between the internal guts from the same makers parts. Depending how the processor in there wants to handle upsampling a lower resolution 240p(CRT) signal or game made for that even converted on a device Wii Mario Allstars/Retron 5, you end up having visual lag problems seeing one thing while the game is a few frames ahead and you're screwed.

[lendelin]

Blame the TV entirely. I've got the same game and it isn't an issue for me. If your TV has a display lag rating basically over 30ms you'll feel the lag when you try and stick platforms as you said in that game. I had the same problems years earlier thinking I had a broken copy of Mario Allstars Wii on a TV I once owned as the Wii was on the main TV in the place which has a poorer display lag rating. I started flipping out thinking I was losing it because I couldn't even jump on a goomba with a running hop in World 2 of SMB3 on there. I then tried the same (on cart original) game on the other TV which has my classic systems on it so I concluded the game broke and sold it. A few years later, Wii now on the good TV, it ran fine, realized it was the stupid TV and not the game so I kept that one until I sold my Wii setup off pissed at NIntendo over it and the WiiU selling both.

Funny you note it, but I've got a 46" Samsung which was the bad TV for it, a new(then) LED TV set, I got due to a work bonus. I took it back to my years older Panasonic Viera I had at the time, and its display lag was so low it was like a CRT. I recall seeing many (pretty much all in the larger sizes) Samsung TVs having some of the shittiest display lag problems even their game mode didn't clean up well. I'm actually using my deceased grandma's 32" Samsung now, found on displaylag.com it has a 1 or 2ms less rating than my solid 29" Vizio I had been using (so I stored it as a backup.) When the Viera got cracked (kid) I freaked, researched, found that Vizio (2-3 years ago now) and best buy had it local so I tested the waters and it worked.

That's the problem with any of these flat panel HDTV sets. They have no set standard between makers let alone between the internal guts from the same makers parts. Depending how the processor in there wants to handle upsampling a lower resolution 240p(CRT) signal or game made for that even converted on a device Wii Mario Allstars/Retron 5, you end up having visual lag problems seeing one thing while the game is a few frames ahead and you're screwed.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with TVs and the Retron 5. I should have paid more attention to the input lag when I bought the new TV.

Will I have the same probs when it comes to the NES Classic Edition and the new AVS by Retro USB, the latter being not an emulator but produces the NES games in 720p with HDMI? ( I intend to buy both)

[Tanooki]

Yeah you almost positively will.

I'll widen it so it makes sense. That same huge Samsung I have, I also before I caught on to the shenanigans had a PS2, a N64, NES, and SNES along with a Wii attached to it and a PS3 as well at some time or another.

If the games were made around the earliest time of the LCD tv and beyond, they tend to respond a bit better but even then you have issues. Those Guitar Hero titles have their own lag gauge in there where you can calibrate it with a few steps to counteract it, the PS2 and Wii both had it, before doing it the games were not playable, after they were. When I was for a time trying out NES games from again Mario, or stuff like Kirby, PUnchout, etc...it wouldn't time right. The same problem happened with their SNES counterparts (and Wii counterpart with Allstars or VC downloads.) In every case it was a disaster as I tested various things after I figured out the crap that got pulled, although too late before I was pissed off and sold my original Wii Allstars package. A good year after playing with other stuff between it and my dead panasonic anything that gave me crap with timing on the big one didn't on the smaller so I moved ALL my systems short of the PS3 off the big screen and I wasn't having a presumed case of forgotten skill and stupid fingers.

The newest TV I ended up with that Vizio was solid, tested it, but even yet overly hyper sensitive stuff like Mike Tyson, Gradius 3/4 on PS2, Gitaroo Man and the sort still ran like shit, but if I threw up Game Mode which further shut down processing of the image the menu can't achieve manually -- they all got playable again, CRT playable no less. I just left my TV on Game Mode ever since, I really don't give a crap about processing as my PS4 can filter the blu rays excellently on their own not needing gimpy TV help. I've done this on the 1ms speedier TV I inherited from my Grandma fairly recently, a Samsung of all things around 4" larger. So It kind of helped really build a case against shitty internal processing on LCD/LED TVs. I just lucked out a decade ago or so when I got that old Panasonic at Circuit City as the ms rating on it was damn near LCD(PC) quality with its filters disabled.

As far as emulators go, my old consoles are just as they are and the signal was processed up to what the LED could handle, so that doesn't apply. I'd think the added work an emulator needs could add added lag perhaps, but if both have the stench of issues I doubt your emulated Classic NES vs the thing bunnyboy made will fare any better.