Games you may want for reasons you didn't know

[celerystalker]

So, what got me thinking about this is Namco Museum DS. I never would have even considered owning this, as I've already got enough variants thereof. However, a few years ago, I saw it on sale and decided to read the back, and was surprised to see a portable version of Pac-Man Vs. included. I love that game, and it offers single card download play. No brainer for me.

Any games anyone can think of that people might want for odd reasons the developers/publishers didn't play up or weren'ttalked about much? I know I bought TMNT Battle Nexus for its having the arcade game included, and several Sga Ages 2500 releases because they had multiple regions' versions of classic games on them. I know a lot of people like Donkey Kong 64 for the arcade game's inclusion... what are some more games with modes or extra games that make an otherwise bland game into something more special and worth owning?

[SpaceHarrier]

Outrun 2 (Xbox) has SCUD Race and Daytona 2 unlockable levels as well as the classic Outrun hidden in it.

[goldenband]

Super Monkey Ball 2 for GameCube has an unlockable tennis minigame that's one of the best-playing tennis games I've encountered on any system, ever.

[Steve W]

The Intellivision version of Dig Dug has a secret game hidden in it, called Deadly Dogs! It's a hack of Tron Deadly Discs but you fight the hot dogs from Burgertime.

[Koa Zo]

Great topic!
I also purchased Namco Museum DS for the same reason.

The one game that came to mind right away for me was Time Pilot, Oretachi Geasen Zoku Sono Vol. 04.
Time Pilot was always a favorite game of mine. While I'm no expert on all the available home conversion, I'm pretty sure the Oretachi Geasen release is the only home version which can be played with a vertical monitor. The screen zoom feature which is present in most (all?) Oretachi Geasen releases is typically a strange if not useless addition, but for Time Pilot is can be fun to scale the screen up so that very little play area is visible, the chase and dodging of off-screen enemies makes for a unique challenging take on Time Pilot.

I have a particular interest in unique controllers. Finding games which support the Playstation neGcon has been sometimes surprising. It was on this very forum during a discussion of Paperboy ports, that I became aware of Arcade's Greatest Hits The Atari Collection 2 and it's support of the neGcon as well as the mouse. (I believe Roadblasters also utilizes the neGcon)

A real odd-ball is the existence of the Hori Shovel Controller, which first led me to know about the game Power Shovel. While it can be played with a Dual Analog pad just as well, the novelty controller really makes playing Power Shovel an event.

[celerystalker]

I may have to pick up a couple of these. The Discs of Tron/Burgertime bit sounds funny.

Thought of a few more.

World Court Tennis and Final Lap Twin on Turbografx are both inexpensive and have unique quest modes, which take the games from arcadey tennis and racing and place you in a straight up Dragon Warrior-inspired RPG mode, with random encounters being one game rounds of tennis or single lap races respectively. You earn money, buy new equipment, and challenge bosses.

Super Family Tennis on Super Famicom has a drama mode that can be accessed via a code. It's like a graphic novel with interspersed tennis matches, and it's pretty fun!

Scud on Saturn, which I know I've gone on about quite a bit, has unique modes like one player/2 light guns, the option to play the game as a side-scroller through the same stages, a two player mode where one player plays the side-scrolling run & gun while player 2 lays down cover fire with a light gun, and if you're a fan of the comic, an unlockable mode to play as Drywall after clearing the game. Plus, music tracks and a hidden comedy sketch from the Dead Alewives, featuring Rob Schrab (creator of Scud and writer on the Sarah Silverman Show and Monster House) and Dan Harmon (co-creator of Community, Monster House, and Rick and Morty).

[Captain_N77]

Super Monkey Ball 2 for GameCube has an unlockable tennis minigame that's one of the best-playing tennis games I've encountered on any system, ever.

I agree that the mini-games on the Monkey Ball games really became the overall highlight for me. I'm particularly fond of Monkey Bowling in MB2.

I guess I would have to say Midway Arcade Treasures is a good answer for me. I bought the package for the usual suspects: Joust, Defender, and in particular Rampart, but it was Root Beer Tapper that became something of an obsession for quite some time.

[Edmond Dantes]

For me, it was Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection, with an honorable nod to its predecessor, The Gottlieb Collection. I own the PS2 versions in both instances and don't know how the later versions compare.

Both of these are collections of real pinball machines.. well, digitized versions of such, anyway. The Williams one contains almost exclusively tables from the 1980s, like Gorgar, Taxi, Black Knight and freakin' Pin-Bot (That's not a complete list), while Gottlieb goes as far back as the 1950s and shows more of the evolution of pinball. The Gottlieb collection tho, being earlier, has some kinks that weren't quite worked out--in particular nudging the table is way too sensitive, and you have to get into the habit of moving the left analog stick very slightly in order to nudge without immediately invoking a tilt (fortunately, there's a code to turn Tilting off entirely). On the williams collection, you have to really be abusing the tables, kicking their babies and saying mean things about their religion before you get a tilt.

Also Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast, also on PS2 (Tho this version is dependent upon the PSP release for all the unlocks. Which some like to complain about, but personally I like having a second excuse to buy two copies of this game). This is THE BEST RACING GAME EVER MADE. Yes I would even call it better than the original Outrun. Outrun 2006 is essentially an enhanced home port of Outrun 2SP--though you can play the arcade version as well if you like. If I had any complaints, its that (compared to the original 1986 Outrun) I almost never have a problem reaching the finish line, even when I play the arcade mode. So its slightly easier in that regard. But then there's heart attack mode and the various challenges... and also the song "Nightbird," exclusive to this version.

[Tanooki]

Edmond, you've never ever played 'The Pinball Arcade' on 3DS download (even a card with 5 games on it), PC(Steam), Android, iOS, PSN(PS3+4+vita), PS4 disc, or XB? That's the same contract and same stuff going on there. They ditched the gottlieb old timey stuff in TPA but maintained the non-EM stuff (very few if any pre-electrical stuff is in the package to date.) They release tables by seasons just starting #5 now which end up getting 10 per season though 1+2 got double that. Buy a table (or 2 with season1+2) for $5 or a whole season I think is $30, often on sale for 1/2 off a few times a year.

For me too it was a huge deal to get the Willam's Collection despite how buggy and poor the Gottlieb one was which I had too. I see you're fascinated with PinBot. It along with the Black Knight and Space SHuttle were my pre-DMD favorites of the 80s and amazingly those +2 more are the selection on the physical release on 3DS which was a must buy. The thing is I now do own a real Pinbot machine, and I'll still go back to the digital one when I can't play at home and I want to get at it. Sadly they limit you to no options and 3 balls unless you pay extra money for TPA which is semi-sleazy in my book. Most people played 80s and 70s pins on 5 balls, not 3.


Here's a fun one I didn't realize at the time back in the mid 90s. When I got my DUO and started bagging games (especially discs) I found I really wanted Gate of Thunder, an awesome shooter. But the thing was that really got me going with it was a double whammy of added unadvertised awesomeness. Hiding in plain view on there was also Bonk's Adventure and Bonk's Return so I didn't have to buy the HuCards, and behind a really basic short code(buttons pushed) hidden in not plain sight was BOMBERMAN (aka Dynablaster on MSDOS-PC) which is an amazing version of the game. Buy 1, get 3 free on that one...hell of a deal.

Also here's another. Ever heard of Pinball Advance (for GBA?) I'd guess no. It only came out in the EU/UK market. I stumbled upon it on accident one day on ebay, some dude just over the border in TN was selling it, got it CIB stupid cheap. When I got it as a blind buy I tried it out and fell in love with the 3D rendered tables, amazing sounds, very solid physics engine. I would only more recently later find out they weren't original. THey were something I'd wanted to play years ago and never got it, part of the DOS/Win game PINBALL MANIA. I was floored, they were tables made in conjunction with 21st Century Entertainment and DICE(yeah as in the Bad Company/EA guys) who did the stunning Pinball Dreams and Pinball Fantasies which was ported everywhere and I think started on Amiga. To take it full circle, both Dreams+Fantasies about th esame time and again only in the EU/UK hit the GBA too as Pinball Challenge Deluxe with all 8 tables on one cart (which I also own.) Crazy eh?

[Az]

It was on this very forum during a discussion of Paperboy ports, that I became aware of Arcade's Greatest Hits The Atari Collection 2 and it's support of the neGcon as well as the mouse. (I believe Roadblasters also utilizes the neGcon)

Wow, I had no idea they did that. I'm amazed they would bother to include such support, but that's cool! I really enjoyed those PS1 collections when they were first released. For some reason being able to play a "real" port of Rampage blew my mind at the time.


For me, it was Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection, with an honorable nod to its predecessor, The Gottlieb Collection. I own the PS2 versions in both instances and don't know how the later versions compare.

I love pinball games, but I'm always drawn to the ones that were nothing like real pinball (Crude Ball, Alien Crush, Pinball of the Dead). Realistic pinball simulations were something I avoided like the plague no matter what the system. I happened to load the ISO's of these two up on my PSP and was strangely hooked. I was even able to play them decently with the PSP longways which is something I've never been able to tolerate on another game. That got me hooked into going for high scores, which is something I hadn't really paid attention to in games since years ago with Guitar Hero. I managed to snag used copies of the 360 and 3DS versions, although I wish frame rate on the 3DS was 60fps like the others. Amazingly fun games especially at cheap prices!

[Steven]

Super Family Tennis on Super Famicom has a drama mode that can be accessed via a code. It's like a graphic novel with interspersed tennis matches, and it's pretty fun!

Huh! I had no idea such an intriguing code existed, lol. Do you know what the code is exactly?
Also, is it basically unenjoyable to play this mode if one does not read Japanese? Or is there little to no text in this graphic novel mode?

I bought SFT like 9 years ago. Still haven't gotten around to playing it but you might have just inspired me to pick it up soon :)

[celerystalker]

Huh! I had no idea such an intriguing code existed, lol. Do you know what the code is exactly?
Also, is it basically unenjoyable to play this mode if one does not read Japanese? Or is there little to no text in this graphic novel mode?

I bought SFT like 9 years ago. Still haven't gotten around to playing it but you might have just inspired me to pick it up soon :)

I sure do! You hit select five times on the title screen, which gives you access to theater mode, which is the mode you want. There is very little text, and not much in the way of choices. You can only lose by losing your matches, and you play in some special arenas. The text is in Japanese, but there are accompanying images that make it pretty understandable. You find yourself in special matches as well, such as controlling one player on a doubles team or playing atop a mountain. I enjoyed it quite a bit myself!

[Steve W]

Another one that's not much of a secret is Battlezone 2000 for the Atari Lynx. The programmers came up with a great little game, but Atari didn't like it and ordered them to start over, making it more like the arcade original with wireframe graphics. So they hid their original version of Battlezone 2000 in the game. I found it to be a bit tough, to be honest.

[davidbrit2]

Also Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast, also on PS2 (Tho this version is dependent upon the PSP release for all the unlocks. Which some like to complain about, but personally I like having a second excuse to buy two copies of this game). This is THE BEST RACING GAME EVER MADE. Yes I would even call it better than the original Outrun. Outrun 2006 is essentially an enhanced home port of Outrun 2SP--though you can play the arcade version as well if you like. If I had any complaints, its that (compared to the original 1986 Outrun) I almost never have a problem reaching the finish line, even when I play the arcade mode. So its slightly easier in that regard. But then there's heart attack mode and the various challenges... and also the song "Nightbird," exclusive to this version.

The Japanese PS2 version - titled simply Outrun 2 SP - is even better. They put the space shuttle and volcano animations back in (to a degree - they're a bit downgraded), fixed the frame drop in a few places, fixed the Turbo Outrun music so it loops properly, instead of that idiotic fade-out-and-restart, removed the PSP linking, and added support for Logitech USB wheels. Outrun mode scoring is still wrong, though, I believe. Only the European PSP version got it right for whatever reason, as did the later Outrun Online Arcade.

[goldenband]

I sure do! You hit select five times on the title screen, which gives you access to theater mode, which is the mode you want. There is very little text, and not much in the way of choices. You can only lose by losing your matches, and you play in some special arenas. The text is in Japanese, but there are accompanying images that make it pretty understandable. You find yourself in special matches as well, such as controlling one player on a doubles team or playing atop a mountain. I enjoyed it quite a bit myself!

This sounds like a great candidate for a translation! I actually recently was part of a team that translated Family Tennis for the Famicom, so maybe I can find folks to take this one on, though I know nothing about Super Famicom hacking.

[Steven]

Thanks Celery. Whenever I get around to writing a review of Super Family Tennis, I'm definitely creditting you for the tip and code.

Saturn Bomberman comes to mind. It has a code that blew my mind about 10 years ago when I found out. You have like 4 variations of EACH main battle stage. So it took the map count from like 12 to 48. It was insane and made a fun party game with INFINITE replay value even more nuts. I don't have the code on me right now but I'm pretty sure you can find it on GameFAQs. It's also why I prefer the 8 player mode to the 10 player mode. You get way more map choices and it's still plenty chaotic enough at 8 players!

[celerystalker]

A couple more occurred to me.

MLB Power Pros (and the 2008 version) for PS2 and Wii: The create a player mode is not the usual. It's a visual novel/sim mode where your player develops through college to get drafted, and your stats come out based on your performance. You train, study, and even date. It's wild, fun, and english!

Milon's Secret Castle for Game Boy: the layout is exactly like that of the NES game, but the big difference is that you actually have a password save system, making figuring out its obtuse puzzles much less daunting instead of trying to get it all in one sitting, plus it's portable.

[Niku-Sama]

for what ever reason I have wanted F-zero gx but I cant bring my self to pay the prices that people are asking

and I cant stand f zero on SNES for some reason either

[Tanooki]

$20 is too much for F-Zero GX? When I saw that you got me curious if it was another Nintendo nerd taxed game and feared it was like $50+ but it's not. You should grab it, it's fun.

I never knew why the hell I'd want Hexen or FIghting Force both on N64, but I grabbed them today. I had heard they were nice and I slightly messed with the DOS version of Hexen like 20 years ago, hope they're fun.

[SparTonberry]

It's still a markup. I think GX is $20 disc-only.
A few years ago I got one CIB for like $15 but the disc was scratched. I suppose it was worth it to spend another $20 on a good disc to complete it, though.

[Tanooki]

I'm looking at complete paid copies selling for $20 shipped give or take a few bucks on ebay when I wrote that. That's why I wondered why it was like unpalatable.

[kupomogli]

The title to the thread sounds as if you're questioning what games we have played that we never thought we'd actually like and after playing them we would, but the op sounds like what hidden games are located within a game that may or may not be advertised by developers or publishers.

[The 1 2 P]

^Nice to know I'm not the only one who was confused by the title and actual content of the thread. For me it would be the original Ninja Gaiden game on Xbox. It has versions of the three Nes Ninja Gaiden games locked away through game play. The first SpyHunter game on Xbox has the arcade version of Spyhunter on the disc when you enter a code but that's advertised on the box. Original Xbox games seemed to do this a lot.

[celerystalker]

Yeah, the point was basically that a lot of games that look generic on the service may have content, modes, or hidden games that make what otherwise looks like a game to pass on worth a look.

[Tanooki]

Well if you're into local multiplayer back in the day up until more or less Perfect Dark came out Hexen 64 has a full blown 4 player deathmatch to do that plays well and has a consistent framerate. That was pretty huge for then but when Perfect Dark showed up that kind of got forgotten since it's a full 3D game while Hexen runs on the old DOS DOOM engine which is faux 3D. The game was rated mediocre, not really sure why, maybe graphics whoring and because it's hard, but if you want to have a 4 player death dealing FPS on one screen it's a good choice most don't realize is there.

[FieryReign]

^Nice to know I'm not the only one who was confused by the title and actual content of the thread. For me it would be the original Ninja Gaiden game on Xbox. It has versions of the three Nes Ninja Gaiden games locked away through game play. The first SpyHunter game on Xbox has the arcade version of Spyhunter on the disc when you enter a code but that's advertised on the box. Original Xbox games seemed to do this a lot.

They are the SNES ports for some odd reason. If you're talking about Ninja Gaiden.

[The 1 2 P]

^^ Good to know as I've never unlocked them. And since I sold my sealed copy of Ninja Gaiden Trilogy some time ago it will be nice to finally get to play through those versions.

[FieryReign]

Kinda thru me for a loop, because that is not an easy achievement collecting all those scarabs, whilst running through the entire game twice. Definitely not worth it. Just to play half-assy Snes ports?

[Tanooki]

Visually they're halfassed a bit, but the gameplay is solid and the passwords are welcome as is the restoration of the famicom way of how NG3 is handled with damage/continuing. I actually own the cart, kept it over the NES games I had for a long time.

[Niku-Sama]

I'm looking at complete paid copies selling for $20 shipped give or take a few bucks on ebay when I wrote that. That's why I wondered why it was like unpalatable.

couple months ago it was $35 complete

[evildead2099]

Milon's Secret Castle for Game Boy: the layout is exactly like that of the NES game, but the big difference is that you actually have a password save system, making figuring out its obtuse puzzles much less daunting instead of trying to get it all in one sitting, plus it's portable.

If the basic gameplay is still the same, then who cares?!? The AVGN said it best: "Milon's Secret Castle. MORE LIKE MILON'S SHITTY ASSHOLE!"

[celerystalker]

If the basic gameplay is still the same, then who cares?!? The AVGN said it best: "Milon's Secret Castle. MORE LIKE MILON'S SHITTY ASSHOLE!"

Have you actually played it? It a fun action adventure game with loads of secrets, and the continue code the AVGN bitched about is in the instruction manual, which he obviously never read. The AVGN is not even James Rolfe's real opinion. It's entertainment, not journalism. Milon's Secret Castle is no more obtuse than The Legend of Zelda in its clues, has solid controls that just need to be learned, and lots of secrets to find like optional powerups, life bar extensions, and music boxes. Probably one of my top 25 NES games, and yes, I've played 99% of its library on actual carts and I've played the game as an adult.

Probably taking that post too seriously, but anytime I hear or see someone quote the nerd, 95% of the time they haven't earnestly played the game or even get that he's just entertainment and often gives incomplete or straight inaccurate information.

[The 1 2 P]

Kinda thru me for a loop, because that is not an easy achievement collecting all those scarabs, whilst running through the entire game twice. Definitely not worth it. Just to play half-assy Snes ports?

Well that entire game is super difficult so that's just one more reward waiting for me at the end of the tunnel. Plus I sold my Nes originals a few months ago so this will be the only way I can play it on the big tv. I have the first two games downloaded to my 3DS but it's not the same playing them on those small screens.

[evildead2099]

Have you actually played it? It a fun action adventure game with loads of secrets, and the continue code the AVGN bitched about is in the instruction manual, which he obviously never read. The AVGN is not even James Rolfe's real opinion. It's entertainment, not journalism. Milon's Secret Castle is no more obtuse than The Legend of Zelda in its clues, has solid controls that just need to be learned, and lots of secrets to find like optional powerups, life bar extensions, and music boxes. Probably one of my top 25 NES games, and yes, I've played 99% of its library on actual carts and I've played the game as an adult.

Probably taking that post too seriously, but anytime I hear or see someone quote the nerd, 95% of the time they haven't earnestly played the game or even get that he's just entertainment and often gives incomplete or straight inaccurate information.

Yes, I played it, and thought it sucked. I rented it one or two times in the early 90s and, like the Nerd, was pissed that the game is so damn cryptic that it's impossible to advance beyond the first level without the use of a walkthrough.

I don't mind puzzles that are cryptic, like those found in Zelda I and II, but Milon's Secret Castle took things way, way beyond the limit. Puzzles notwithstanding, all of his other criticisms were valid: the way your shots fire, the fact that you literally have to blindly shoot each and every single thing JUST TO MAKE NORMAL PROGRESS in the game, etc.

The graphics and music are fine, but beyond those factors, Milon's Secret Castle is one of the worst games on the NES. You have your opinion, I have mine. We may just have to agree to disagree, but I assure you that I formed my own opinion long before anyone ever heard of the AVGN or YouTube.

I'm not the only one who feels this way. Although it's anything but unbiased when it comes to video games, you can read about how widely the game was panned by critics on Wikipedia at this URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milon's_Secret_Castle#Reception

[Koa Zo]

The graphics and music are fine, but beyond those factors, Milon's Secret Castle is one of the worst games on the NES. You have your opinion
That's not an opinion, that's either ignorance or stupidity. It seems like Milon left your panties in a bunch. A friend and I progressed pretty far without a guide, the friend later beat it without any outside help.

Funny that the game recieved two rereleases (Gameboy and GBA) and a sequel if it was so badly recieved.
And the inane wiki link you posted doesn't in the least show "how widely panned by critics." It reflects what two internet content providers thought of the game decades after it was released.

[FieryReign]

Well that entire game is super difficult so that's just one more reward waiting for me at the end of the tunnel. Plus I sold my Nes originals a few months ago so this will be the only way I can play it on the big tv. I have the first two games downloaded to my 3DS but it's not the same playing them on those small screens.

It's a major pain in the ass, trust me. You've got to collect all those scarabs, beat the game and start a new game, make it up to the shopkeeper and buy the games with the scarabs while finding another hidden game, beat the game again, start another freaking game and make it to the arcade cabinet in the bar where you can finally play the damned things. If you have any hair left, then enjoy. It's really fucking hard doing all that just for the Snes ports. An achievement where you can truly pat yourself on the back. No joke.

The music and sound is all jacked up on the Snes games. The graphics looked like shit to me. It just didn't look right. Like all they did was add a few colors and called it a day. The PCE Ninja Gaiden looks better, janky parallax and all.

[celerystalker]

Yes, I played it, and thought it sucked. I rented it one or two times in the early 90s and, like the Nerd, was pissed that the game is so damn cryptic that it's impossible to advance beyond the first level without the use of a walkthrough.

I don't mind puzzles that are cryptic, like those found in Zelda I and II, but Milon's Secret Castle took things way, way beyond the limit. Puzzles notwithstanding, all of his other criticisms were valid: the way your shots fire, the fact that you literally have to blindly shoot each and every single thing JUST TO MAKE NORMAL PROGRESS in the game, etc.

The graphics and music are fine, but beyond those factors, Milon's Secret Castle is one of the worst games on the NES. You have your opinion, I have mine. We may just have to agree to disagree, but I assure you that I formed my own opinion long before anyone ever heard of the AVGN or YouTube.

I'm not the only one who feels this way. Although it's anything but unbiased when it comes to video games, you can read about how widely the game was panned by critics on Wikipedia at this URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milon's_Secret_Castle#Reception

As a child I got to the top floor in Milon's Secret Castle, and I wasn't some wunderkind. The angle of the shots plays fine with enemy locations, and powerups make your bubble larger and increase its range. Shooting tons of blocks is no different than burning bushes and bombing walls in Zelda, except that it's even easier and has less real estate to cover. Frankly, Zelda's puzzles were even more cryptic with such gems as "Grumble Grumble," the lost woods, the power bracelet being hidden under an armos knight with no clues... it's loaded with puzzles with zero hints to their solutions. How is this any less cryptic aside from that you like it better? The game was far from widely panned... hell, it's not like video game journalism as so present even then. I read one review at the time in How to Win at Nintendo Games 2, which was overall positive. It's bandwagon revisionist nonsense about a game with multiple re-releases, a direct sequel, and a DS spinoff.

If you think it's one of the worst games on the NES, you need to spend some time with Dudes with Attitude, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Where's Waldo, Orb 3D, and at least 500 other games that are demonstrably inferior, because your rental from 30 years ago isn't doing you justice.

[evildead2099]

That's not an opinion, that's either ignorance or stupidity. It seems like Milon left your panties in a bunch. A friend and I progressed pretty far without a guide, the friend later beat it without any outside help.

Funny that the game recieved two rereleases (Gameboy and GBA) and a sequel if it was so badly recieved.
And the inane wiki link you posted doesn't in the least show "how widely panned by critics." It reflects what two internet content providers thought of the game decades after it was released.

I said I played the game, so if you are not implying that I'm a liar, you're implying that I'm stupid. My experience of playing it was not the same as yours. I am not 'stupid' just because I disliked a game that you enjoyed, and you're a jackass for implying that.

The Wikipedia article is just one of numerous ones on the internet that reflect negative opinions toward the game. People who express negative opinions now may have had those negative opinions for years, contrary to what you want everyone to believe. But it has already been established that the only opinions you'll acknowledge as such as those that accord with yours, so I'll leave you to troll someone else.

Yes, you are a troll, and a flame-baiting one at that. I made no personal attacks toward you or anyone else, but that didn't stop you from insinuating things about me in some lame, unwarranted attempt to hurt my feelings. You must be very proud of yourself.

celerystalker: You made some good points comparing MSC to Zelda, but from my experience, Zelda's puzzles felt a lot more intuitive and less cryptic. At least Zelda lets players explore quite a lot of Hyrule before they must solve any puzzles that are remotely cryptic, whereas the opposite is true for MSC.

I did not play the terrible NES games you mentioned, but I played quite a lot of bad ones, and I consider MSC pretty bad. You said you own a large chunk of the NES library, but unless it just comes down to opinion, how can you rank MSC as high as - or higher than - a wealth of quality games like SMB 1-3, Contra & Super Contra, Jackal, Kid Icarus, Metroid, Castlevania I & III, The Guardian Legend, Life Force, Kirby's Adventure, Little Nemo: The Dream Master, Zelda I & II, Tetris, Life Force, Megaman 1-6, Duck Tales, Mighty Final Fight, and so many more titles?

[Manhattan Sports Club]

I considered getting a pristine CIB Greatest Hits set of all the Kingdom Hearts games for PS2, since I have the same for the PS2 Final Fantasies and recently bought Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD Remix GH for PS3 at Walmart recently. Redundant, but despite my complaint at the flaws in that game, there are still few modern releases out there that are as fun or charming as KH. I often feel that you can't really have too many copies of your favorite game for each individual system you own unless that port just flat out sucks. And speaking of redundant, I still want to get FF X/X2 remastered and KH 2.5 for PS3.

P.S.; I agree with celerystalker that Milon is actually miles better than people give it credit for. one of my favorite NES games.

[celerystalker]

I said I played the game, so if you are not implying that I'm a liar, you're implying that I'm stupid. My experience of playing it was not the same as yours. I am not 'stupid' just because I disliked a game that you enjoyed, and you're a jackass for implying that.

The Wikipedia article is just one of numerous ones on the internet that reflect negative opinions toward the game. People who express negative opinions now may have had those negative opinions for years, contrary to what you want everyone to believe. But it has already been established that the only opinions you'll acknowledge as such as those that accord with yours, so I'll leave you to troll someone else.

Yes, you are a troll, and a flame-baiting one at that. I made no personal attacks toward you or anyone else, but that didn't stop you from insinuating things about me in some lame, unwarranted attempt to hurt my feelings. You must be very proud of yourself.

celerystalker: You made some good points comparing MSC to Zelda, but from my experience, Zelda's puzzles felt a lot more intuitive and less cryptic. At least Zelda lets players explore quite a lot of Hyrule before they must solve any puzzles that are remotely cryptic, whereas the opposite is true for MSC.

I did not play the terrible NES games you mentioned, but I played quite a lot of bad ones, and I consider MSC pretty bad. You said you own a large chunk of the NES library, but unless it just comes down to opinion, how can you rank MSC as high as - or higher than - a wealth of quality games like SMB 1-3, Contra & Super Contra, Jackal, Kid Icarus, Metroid, Castlevania I & III, The Guardian Legend, Life Force, Kirby's Adventure, Little Nemo: The Dream Master, Zelda I & II, Tetris, Life Force, Megaman 1-6, Duck Tales, Mighty Final Fight, and so many more titles?

I surely never meant to say that Milon is objectively better than Mario or Zelda, but I did say it was in my top 25. Of the games you mentioned, I'd put most of them ahead of Milon, save Mighty Final Fight, Duck Tales, Mega Man 1-6, and Catlevania III. None of those game are bad games, but I just don't enjoy Mega Man games. There's nothing definitively wrong with them, though I do wish he could duck, but I just don't get into them much, no matter how much I try. The difference there is that I'm not calling them bad games; they just aren't for me. Guardian Legend, Contra, Mario, Zelda, Gradius, Legacy of the Wizard? Oh, hell yeah, they rule.

Milon might not be for you, but what I'm saying is that it isnot objectively bad and riddled with design flaws. If you don't care for the momentum-based running and jumping, angled bubble trajectory, and some tough puzzles, hey, that's your call to like what you like. To call it one of the worst games on the system that is loaded with games like Amagon, Stanley in the Search for Dr Livingston, Stealth ATF, Sunday Funday, Raid 2020, Pesterminator, Flight of the Intruder, 10 Yard Fight, MTV's Remote Control...

[The 1 2 P]

It's a major pain in the ass, trust me. You've got to collect all those scarabs, beat the game and start a new game, make it up to the shopkeeper and buy the games with the scarabs while finding another hidden game, beat the game again, start another freaking game and make it to the arcade cabinet in the bar where you can finally play the damned things. If you have any hair left, then enjoy. It's really fucking hard doing all that just for the Snes ports. An achievement where you can truly pat yourself on the back. No joke.

The music and sound is all jacked up on the Snes games. The graphics looked like shit to me. It just didn't look right. Like all they did was add a few colors and called it a day. The PCE Ninja Gaiden looks better, janky parallax and all.

That does sound like a lot of work which wouldn't matter if I didn't work so much during the fall. I'll have to see if there are any shortcuts to achieving this. I definitely don't mine trying to complete the game again(I've only got to the third level before I gave up back in the day) but not sure if I want to do all of that twice without some bypasses. Something similar to playing Halo on Legendary where you can just skip large battles(not by cheating but by running by or crossing over sections) without it affecting the outcome of the game.

[Aussie2B]

I agree that Super Monkey Ball is all about the mini-games. I sunk a ridiculous amount of time into 4-player Monkey Target in the first game, far more than on the main mode.

I bought Tokimeki Memorial mainly for the TwinBee mini-game, haha. It's actually pretty solid! Too bad it's short and I don't believe there's any way to access it besides that one time mid-route.

[Edmond Dantes]

The problem with Hexen on Nintendo 64 was that the controls didn't translate very well. I remember it feeling extremely awkward, and the Happy Video Game Nerd apparently had very similar experiences--and even found that some important control functions disappear entirely if you switch modes in the option menu.

It gets points for almost completely replicating the PC game's levels, but if you have a choice you should just play the PC version.

By contrast, Doom 64 was awesome and is still a valid reason to own a Nintendo 64 even despite it having been fan-ported to the PC.

[Tanooki]

Ahh finally someone with an explanation. Seems fair enough, but given I haven't touched the old DOS game for around what 20 year now(?) I really am not impacted by it. The only slightly odd one would be using the d-pad up and down to look up and down and if you're flying too it works here and with Z does height

By default the joystick moves you, B and A are your fire and open/jump functions. C up is map, C left and right is weapon select, C down is use item, and then Z and R on map screen zooms. In play Z with the joystick is strafe, and Z with the left/right C rotates inventory.

The d-pad use is a tad annoying but the rest I'm having a ball with, it's not causing me any problems so the primary stuff is full of good layout thankfully, but flying will become a pain.

I think from what I read Hexen 64 only copies the main game, not the later expansion which is fine, it's already huge. I'm up to the seven portals, got confused and shut it off the other night. Perhaps those most upset about Hexen are very used to playing the PC version and have a second sense or muscle memory with it and they can't get over the control problem. I lack this, so it's almost as easily handled as DOOM (which I agree, is stunningly good.) Speaking of which I knew of the fan made bit, it uses the n64 rom to rip the stage graphics/audio and makes a very nice PC version. I've got it installed but I'd still unless I just had a few minutes rather use the N64 cart I own. I find it harder than the PC game and enjoyed finishing it once before back in the late 90s. Also that guy was also working on converting Turok 64 and also Strife as well into that engine.

I'd have played more last night but bought my first video game console lot in 5 years yesterday evening and was cleaning passed midnight. :)