Time Soldiers fans anywhere?

[celerystalker]

I know this part of the forum isn't exactly high traffic, but is anybody else a Time Soldiers fan? I love this game. I made it my first cabinet purchase a few years back due to childhood memories, and I still play it regularly, and can finish it on one life. It's my very favorite of the rotary stick games I've played.

Anybody else like this one? I know the PSP mini release has BS controls... the Master System version was fun, though, even if a pretty different experience. If anyone is into it or wants to talk about it, I'd love to... I put it in a tournament this summer with my friends, and they all weren't super into it, as I guess the rotary stick thing was too different. I can also provide photos of the board, manual, art, cabinet, and the manual/insert/cart if anyone needs any info.

It's just a favorite of mine, and I can't seem to find any other fans.

[bb_hood]

It is a great game, but the ports dont do it justice.
I remember playing the arcade game alot once while on vacation.

[Az]

This is one game I always thought was cool. I remember when the SMS port was released, I walked into Toys R Us and had to make the decision between this and Altered Beast. I can't remember the exact price, I think this was $39.99 and AB was $45.99, I just remember it being $5 less than whatever AB was. I ended up buying AB first and was so disappointed. No 2p, slowdown, cut stage.... beat it that afternoon.

I never understood why they made this and other rotary stick shooters control so bad on ports. Maybe the SMS I can give a pass to, but the PSP/PS3? No excuse. You could have done it like Dreamcast FPS games did where the face buttons either moved or fired in those directions, or at the very least have one button for free fire and another where it locks firing to whatever direction you're facing at the time. The Ninja for SMS is more intuative with its firing controls; one to fire whatever direction you're facing and the other always fires straight up.

Hell, they could have flipped the PSP sideways and used the d-pad and analog nub. Not only would the controls be somewhat right but the screen would have been the proper orientation.

With the resurgence of dual-stick shooters or at the very least console FPS games you'd think developers could implement rotary stick shooter controls easily. Instead they manage to shit the bed every time.

[homerhomer]

I remember really liking that game too. The whole time warp thing would always get me excited and randomly ending up in locations was a cool idea too.

Is the SMS version worth it? I noticed it's going for about $20.

Hey Jakks! Release a cheapo game TV of this Heavy Barrel and Ikari with a 8 way controller.

[celerystalker]

Yeah, I mean, I get that you can't perfectly simulate a 12 position rotary stick on an 8 way setup, but maybe using the 8 way setup from two sticks or the 4 face buttons, then hold a shoulder button like a shift key for the extra diagonal or something.

As far as the SMS version goes, it does a lot of things right. The time travel aspect basically works the same, and the weapons are basically the same. The biggest difference other than the rotary stick is the way the P powerup works. It still gives you rapid fire and lets you absorb a hit or two, but it doesn't refill when you pick up another weapon, making it much less useful, as playing that meter is a huge part of playing Time Soldiers successfully in the arcade. The boss sprites, though, are cleverly done. The background goes black, allowing the programmers to use the background to make what looks like enormous sprites that are pretty comparable to their arcade counterparts. Not dead on, but really great for the system they're on. I personally think it's one of the best run 'n guns on the system, and is at least as good as Rambo: First Blood Part II.

[Emperor Megas]

I loved Time Soldiers. It had a pretty short run in my local arcades, but it was definitely a favorite of mine. I loved the strategy of managing my weapon power and selection.

I own it for the Master System, but I've never played it yet. This topic is a pretty good excuse for me to finally give it a try.

[Steve W]

I've always liked Time Soldiers but I've never played the SMS version. Mainly because I knew it wouldn't be the same without a rotary joystick. I was pretty let down by Heavy Barrel on the NES.

I never managed to get emulation working on my home machines (MacMESS was a nightmare to get configured properly) but I bought an Ouya because I'd heard good things about MAME4Droid. Time Soldiers worked, but I couldn't get the controls working properly. I have since found a new emulator for the Mac called OpenEmu but I've not tried any rotary stick games on it. I loved games like Heavy Barrel, Gun.Smoke, Time Soldiers and Ikari Warriors in the arcade but without access to the proper controls they're really not worth firing up.

Is there anyplace online where I could buy a USB rotary joystick controller at?

[celerystalker]

Just for kicks, I may see if I can build one this winter (a USB rotary stick controller). The hard part will be finding a good deal on the stick, as they aren't cheap, and some sort or auxiliary setup for the kick harness for the 12 positions, which connects directly to the PCB in the actual cabinet. If MAME has some sort of ability to assign positions to individual keys, I may be able to do something good cannibalizing the guts of an old keyboard soldered to the rotary kick harness.

[celerystalker]

Just for kicks, here are some photos of my cabinet and copy of the SMS game, as well as a little of the manual and rotary stick schematic.
83288329
83308331
8332

[bb_hood]

The arcade game is awesome but personally I think the SMS game is total garbage.
I have the arcade version downloaded on my PS3, however that too is not great without the rotary joystick.
Having the original arcade unit is pretty sweet.

[celerystalker]

I sat down and played the SMS game again last night for fun, and it definitely does have its rough spots, especially with a standard SMS controller. The spongy d-pad likes to go diagonal more than it should, but it plays better with a Genesis controller. One of the biggest problems is that each stage mini-boss is way more difficult on SMS since they still move and fire in ways that really demand being able to run and fire in different directions. Also, your walking speed without a speed power-up is too slow, and just avoid the P power-up like the plague, even though it's the most important thing in the arcade version.

Compared to the arcade game, it's pretty bad, though I do still feel that it holds its own when compared to Rambo and Alien Syndrome on SMS (played them last night as well). The bosses look good, the graphics are solid (not great), and the redesigned stages are decent. The SMS d-pad, hit detection on regular enemies when firing diagonally, and overly aggressive mini-bosses surely leave a lot to be desired.

I'm working on a good high score. I didn't have my phone with me when I got my best score, but I did with my most recent.
8333
That's by no means a bad one, but I've hit about 100,000 higher before. I could easily inflate it, as I can go through the Age of Wars and World Wars epochs looping indefinitely, but that seems like cheating. That score in the picture was a one life run going straight through with no needlessly skipping time warps.

One thing I do get a kick out of on the cabinet is how it doesn't always start in the same time period. I'd say about 90% of the time it starts me in the Age of Rome, but now and again it'll plop me in the World Wars or Primitive Age to start. Kind ofa neat random feature (although I do prefer to start in Rome).

Edit: anyone know how to rotate an inserted picture? I uploaded it from my phone, and it's sideways.

[celerystalker]

Good luck finding a board; you'll probably have good luck if you keep an eye on ebay. It's pretty common there and usually pretty cheap relative to other boards.

I just finished another 1 credit run a few minutes ago while waiting for a load of laundry to finish so I could put it in the dryer before bed. Finished at 1,593,200, which is I think my fourth best score. Was still on my first life on the final stage, but I got sloppy after that first turn where the screen starts scrolling left and lost two lives to the damn eyeball-tentacle monsters, but got it together and finished the job. I always get a little adrenaline going during that last stage when my special weapon runs out and I have to start pounding the hell out of the fire button. :)

[celerystalker]

8383
A new second best score for me, and the highest I've had my phone there to take a picture of... I died once in the final stage, but otherwise it was a spotless game.

On another note, I managed to get ahold of a couple of rotary sticks for super, super cheap (we're talking $7 a piece), which is a steal. Trying to decide whether to use them for a unique supergun for a friend that can handle rotary games or using them instead of standard sticks for the toddler-sized cabinet I'm building slowly for my son that will be JAMMA ready. Any thoughts?

[celerystalker]

8385
I played 4 credits worth today. My board had been acting odd lately, and randomizing the first three stages more. It's been nuts. The first two games went perfectly, one starting from the Age of Rome (my best starting stage) and the second starting in the Primitive Age (second best). The third game started me at the World Wars (my worst), and I was doing fine until the last boss of the Future World, where I grabbed the wrong power up, and went into the Final Battle weak, and died on the last mini-boss. The fourth game plunked me back at Rome, where I summarily kicked the shit out of it. I was having fun with the High Score table naming, since it gives you six spaces instead of just initials.

This game is starting to become like Contra on NES for me; a game I know inside and out, and play to unwind on... I hope by building a supergun with rotary sticks, I can turn more of my friends onto it.

Also, I did figure out how to make rotary sticks USB compatible for MAME. I don't use MAME at all, but I did the research since some folks were interested. There's a cheap ready-made adapter that maps it to keyboard functionality for the rotary component, and apparently you just go into MAME and map it to the keys replaced by the stick. Seems like it'd be easy to do.

[celerystalker]

I ordered two more Time Soldiers pcbs recently, planning on one being a backup since my original occasionally acts goofy (I think a trace is disintigrating on the underside of the board, but haven't tried a jumper yet) and the other as a loaner, so some friends can practice on a rotary supergun I've set up, as it is a regular tournament game when I hold them. One has a graphics issue where ghost sprites from the top if the screen appear at the bottom occasionally, which feels like a current issue to me, but I'm still scrutinizing the board, which USPS roughed up a lot in transit. The other, though, works great.

Where this was interesting to me is that both of these use rev. 3 ROMs for chips 3 and 4, and all of the ROM chips use fewer legs than my original, which is a rev. 1 all throughout. I played all the way through, and the only discernable difference I could see was that rev. 1 uses the 6 space japanese high score table, whereas rev. 3 only uses a 3 space tablefor initials. Difficulty seemed to be identical, as was enemy placement. Threw up a solid score for my first credit on the new good pcb:
8413

[Black_Tiger]

It is a great game, but the ports dont do it justice

This how I always felt.

Time Soldiers made it's way around my hometown to many locations, but I'd always find out where it was and bike over to play it. It and Sky Soldiers are two games that had a big impact on me around the same time. Both are fun and unique feeling games that actually make good use of the time travelling theme.

[celerystalker]

This how I always felt.

Time Soldiers made it's way around my hometown to many locations, but I'd always find out where it was and bike over to play it. It and Sky Soldiers are two games that had a big impact on me around the same time. Both are fun and unique feeling games that actually make good use of the time travelling theme.

Nice to see another Time Soldiers fan! Sky Soldiers was ahead of its time as well, as it feels more modern in some ways than other shooters of the time. Time Soldiers, though, has just really tight design that really rewards you for learning to play it correctly, and some of its imagery, like the biomechanical Gylend, the giant centurion emblem on the floor in Rome, the bizarre kabuki head in the Age of Wars... it's stuck with me hard simce I first saw it as a kid, even long after I'd initially forgotten its name.

[celerystalker]

It's been a tough last few weeks, with inventory at work, the miscarriage with my wife, Easter, everything... I'm quite sleep deprived. I'm off of work tomorrow, though, so when I got off tonight, I pulled my Gondomania board I've been running in my Time Soldiers cabinet for the last 2 months and plugged Time Soldiers back in for a play through. One life clear. :) That and my Black Tiger pcb have been my only brief respite after my wife and son have gone to bed, and I've played a single credit each night of one or the other. Great games.

[homerhomer]

It's been a tough last few weeks, with inventory at work, the miscarriage with my wife, Easter, everything... I'm quite sleep deprived. I'm off of work tomorrow, though, so when I got off tonight, I pulled my Gondomania board I've been running in my Time Soldiers cabinet for the last 2 months and plugged Time Soldiers back in for a play through. One life clear. :) That and my Black Tiger pcb have been my only brief respite after my wife and son have gone to bed, and I've played a single credit each night of one or the other. Great games.
You have good taste in games.

[celerystalker]

You have good taste in games.

Hey, thanks. :) I'm pretty excited; I just ordered a Guerrilla War pcb that I'll be able to run in my Time Soldiers cabinet in rotation with Time Soldiers and Gondomania, so that'll be fun when it shows up hopefully on Wednesday. I'd love to find a Search and Rescue (SAR) pcb to play in there, but that one seems tough to come by.

[celerystalker]

So, my Guerrilla War showed up today, and has been a pain in the butt. At first, nothing was working right; no sound, garbled picture, completely unplayable. After reseating all of the ribbon connector clips on the three board stack and reseating some of the ROM chips, the picture is right save about five feint rows of pixels vertically on the right edge of the screen. For sound, I had to run a -5v wire to the harness, as Time Soldiers doesn't use one, so the original owner just cut those wires out. So, while mounting a platform for the pcb, it slipped and ripped the speaker wires out, so I had to re-wire that. My own fault on that one for working on it while half asleep.

So, now it's up and running with proper play and sound, so I just need to figure out those rows of pixels. They don't wreck the game and are barely noticeable unless the screen is black, but they'll drive me nutty until I get them gone. I'll have to do some more reseating tomorrow and hope that it's not bad RAM. I kniw it isn't the monitor, because Time Soldiers and Gondomania look correct. I'm thinking it'll be a background graphics ROM that needs reseating, as it's the same rows of pixels every time, not just some random noise from electrical connections.

Cool game so far. I've beaten the NES game many times, but the rotary control is preferrable. I think I still prefer Time Soldiers, but variety is fun. :)

[Emperor Megas]

Guerilla War is a nice score, you really DO have great taste in games. Those funky pixels would drive me batty as well. Good luck trouble shooting it.

[celerystalker]

Guerilla War is a nice score, you really DO have great taste in games. Those funky pixels would drive me batty as well. Good luck trouble shooting it.

Thanks! Been having fun playing Guerrilla War. The 8-way rotation is a lot different from the 12-way in Time Soldiers, so it's a lot tougher to play the angles. Still, loads of fun to play, and it's always amused me to be playing as Castro and Guevara as someone who grew up during the cold war as a kid.

I pulled, cleaned the legs, and reseated all of the ROMs, and reseated all of the edge board connectors on the three board stack, but those few feint rows of pixels are still there, making me think that there may be a weak capacitor somewhere, or maybe it's just meant to be played at a lower brightness, as they go away when it's turned down a tad. Some boards definitely like different brightness settings, like WWF Wrestlefest... that one needs the brightness turned way down when I play it in my 25" monitor Neo Geo cabinet, or it looks crazy washed out. Looks great toned down. Maybe this is just a similar board oddity, as Time Soldiers, Gondomania, and Devastators all look great in it.

Speaking of rotary games... anybody here play much Bermuda Triangle? It's one of the only rotary games I haven't played, and I don't see boards floating around much. Seems like the second hardest board to find after SAR.

[Steve W]

So, I need some help about Time Soldiers. I just came from a newly opened arcade that has a Time Soldiers/Heavy Barrel cab, but I don't remember how to play the game exactly (it was probably 1990 since I last played the game). Are the warp gates random? Do I need to go through them? I want to be prepped for the next time I go to that arcade again.

Speaking of Sky Soldiers, they had that cab there too, with Raiden 2 just a toggle away.

[celerystalker]

So, I need some help about Time Soldiers. I just came from a newly opened arcade that has a Time Soldiers/Heavy Barrel cab, but I don't remember how to play the game exactly (it was probably 1990 since I last played the game). Are the warp gates random? Do I need to go through them? I want to be prepped for the next time I go to that arcade again.

Speaking of Sky Soldiers, they had that cab there too, with Raiden 2 just a toggle away.

The starting stage is random. It will be Rome, World Wars, or Primitive. When you clear the miniboss at the end of the stage, you can either take the warp gate or stay in the age you're in.

The warp gate will take you to the next chronological age in line. If you enter the gate in Rome, you'll be in the World Wars. If you enter the gate in the World Wars, it will take you to the Primitive Age, and entering the gate in the Primitive Age takes you to the Age of Rome.

At the beginning, it will tell you where to rescue the first warrior. If you've forgotten, the name of the age at the top of the screen will be flashing when you're in the correct age.

Rescue the warrior in each of those three ages, and you will go to either the Future World or the Age of Wars (feudal Japan). The gates in these simply go back and forth between the two. Clearing them will take you to the final battle with Gylend, where you can't continue in a brutal stage.

If you need any tips on the power-up system, let me know! It's the key to winning.

[Az]

Celery maybe you can shed some light on this.

I can across an ad for an arcade cabinet that was a line built for a theater chain. They had no marquee on top, the marquee was underneath the control panel and the whole panel could be removed like one big box. The PCB was also mounted onto the inside of the control panel box.

This looked a bit weird, but by having everything mounted on into a removeable box you could change just that one part and be done, plus it allowed the same cabinet to be switched out with games that had totally different controls.

The point of this meandering story is the cab included 3 boards along with their fancy pants control panels; Street Fighter II, a vertical shmup, and Time Soldiers. The Time Soldiers sticks were regular ball top 8-ways and not rotary sticks.

So, with this were players just stuck with always facing forward? Or is their a dipswitch on the board to allow regular movement controls like they implimented in some of the SNK PSP ports?

[celerystalker]

Celery maybe you can shed some light on this.

I can across an ad for an arcade cabinet that was a line built for a theater chain. They had no marquee on top, the marquee was underneath the control panel and the whole panel could be removed like one big box. The PCB was also mounted onto the inside of the control panel box.

This looked a bit weird, but by having everything mounted on into a removeable box you could change just that one part and be done, plus it allowed the same cabinet to be switched out with games that had totally different controls.

The point of this meandering story is the cab included 3 boards along with their fancy pants control panels; Street Fighter II, a vertical shmup, and Time Soldiers. The Time Soldiers sticks were regular ball top 8-ways and not rotary sticks.

So, with this were players just stuck with always facing forward? Or is their a dipswitch on the board to allow regular movement controls like they implimented in some of the SNK PSP ports?

Official Time Soldiers pcbs were only made with rotary controls in mind, so most likely players were forced to play facing up, which is frankly nigh impossible. It can be done, as the last stage where you can't continue can be done that way, but it really would ruin the experience.

There were rotary games, like Heavy Barrel, that had non-rotary versions, and Guerrilla War has a non-rotary bootleg hack that lets you shoot where you're facing, but I've never heard of a Time Soldiers like that. Hope that helps! Also, I can confirm that it us not a dip option. I have 3 pcbs and the manual. Definitely meant only for the LS-30s.

Edit: if it's a cabinet you're thinking about buying, I do have a spare set of Data East rotary sticks that are 100% compatible with all LS-30 games that came out of a Heavy Barrel. I'm not looking to offload them, but I'd let you have them for cheap to help you out, as I got them for dirt cheap a couple of years ago in an auction.

[Az]

That was definitely a strange cab then. The Time Soldiers setup was 2 buttons and a regular balltop controller. I'll see if I can find it again for some pics.

What was even more strange and I have no idea how they did it was that it had the monitor mounted vertically for Time Soldiers and the other shmup, yet Street Fighter II would play on it without having to physically move the monitor. How the hell that works is beyond me.

[Steve W]

There's also a hack of Ikari Warriors made for a standard joystick. I use OpenEmu for emulation, and there's no way to play rotary controller games (or even to configure the controller if I managed to build one) so I'm always happy when I come across a standard stick hack for a rotary game.

I've been back to that arcade but I still haven't finished Time Soldiers. I have completed Heavy Barrel again, though. You can't beat the real hardware, especially when it comes to kooky controls.