N64 1:1 (exterior) looking bootlegs are now a thing [Archive]

Tanooki

10-22-2015, 10:28 PM

Seems the Chinese finally figured out how to make a board loaded with chips that works with real games on n64 and can sell them at a decent (but still kind of high) price and to the ire of those who want to see these high prices, they're US versions, 1:1 quality looking stickers, and us N64 game cart shells too.

http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/topic/7458262/1/

Caught on about this over on a reddit thread. You can see the board in one of the pictures there and it appears there's stuff for Clayfighter, Bomberman Second Attack and likely more. They're trying to call it the Dark Age of N64 collecting, hell I'd call it leveling the playing field. Anything that makes it harder on the scalpers who try and price up stuff, good. Problem is the games still are like $80~ in value which is high on a bootleg. If they could 1/2 that I could see it working out much better for those who would rather go that route than an everdrive 64.

bb_hood

10-22-2015, 10:57 PM

how is buying one shitty chinese bootleg game a 'better route' than buying a flash cart?

if someone has issues with owning a flash cart why would they not have a problem with buying an overpriced chinese bootleg?

Aussie2B

10-22-2015, 11:12 PM

Yeeeaaahhhh.....I'm all for games dropping in price, but mixing a bunch of shitty bootlegs into the marketplace is not a positive way to go about it, sorry.

Gameguy

10-22-2015, 11:25 PM

Tanooki is always pro piracy and pro bootlegging, I try to ignore his posts on it. Fake handbags or watches never reduced the price of the originals, it's stupid to assume fake games would lower the price of real copies. All they accomplish is ripping off the people who can't tell they're fake and still pay full price for them.

Tanooki

10-23-2015, 12:21 AM

Niku-Sama

10-23-2015, 12:37 AM

well it didn't take long to find the seller of these online and N64 games aren't the only thing they are doing HOWEVER....

they are not 100% reproductions, some of the things the seller has are translated versions of Japanese games in American carts, some of them are hacks or mods of popular games, and most of them are cheap examples of a game that is way over priced to begin with. not saying that whats happening here is right but at the same time i'd be willing to pay some of the prices of the SNES games they are asking since they are approx. 1/8th to 1/3rd the price of the real deals.

heres the kicker that they are not 100% true to the original 1:1

the SNES games shown are clearly visible and I imagine the N64 games wouldn't be any different but the SNES games that are being reproduced command much higher prices than the N64 ones hes doing.

the SNES games have plastic molded security bits, suggesting to me they made a mold of a US market game with the game completely intact and used that as their master, cleaned it up injected molded it with some equally higher quality plastics and bam. its probably been modified that clip together around the sides kind of like if you've ever taken apart a cell phone or old dvd player, how the front comes off.
that or the screws are just plain plastic.

i'm not going to post links but it wouldn't take much to find the seller, I am considering getting some of the SNES bootlegs just to have a version of the game to play with out running me dry. I still have about $300 left over from PRGE and I got paid today too. if I take the plunge I'll post pics, dissect, what haves you

seller has good reviews atleast, people seem happy knowing what they are

Zthun

10-23-2015, 12:38 AM

Gentlegamer

10-23-2015, 12:43 AM

Crash market, crash!

Aussie2B

10-23-2015, 01:02 AM

The better choice would be personal taste or reasons obviously. I know and expect not everyone to agree but in this case I'm happy about it. I'm not always pro bootleg but with games being scammed over these days with inflated prices anything to hurt those people I like. It goes back to being a kid and having two hobbies of mine being ruined by the same greasy tactics which caused me to stop. I'd rather high quality fakes be there as a noted option than no choice but emulators and flash kits being it.

So it's not at all a "greasy tactic" to make bootlegs and profit off of a product you have no ownership over? And what about that the fact that bootleg goods are often not produced by one single individual but rather associated with organized crime? You're cool with possibly funneling money into the Chinese mafia?

That's all preferable to a rare game being expensive on the used market because that's what collectors are willing to pay for it?

SparTonberry

10-23-2015, 01:22 AM

While I'd like prices to go down too, but on the other hand if I'm going to buy a bootleg I at least want to know it's a bootleg, so I know what sort of quality to expect.

kai123

10-23-2015, 01:31 AM

I am not looking to line the pockets of any of these jack asses. Bootlegs or resellers I will buy a flashcart from krizz and not worry about all the drama and bullshit that comes along with retro collecting. I will just save all my future cash for modern games and just enjoy myself. The money only goes to these leaches. It doesn't help any of the old companies when I buy games on eBay. They made their money on it. My hobby is playing games not staring at a shelf I spent $10,000. Yea, its cool to see them on the shelf but it wears off over time.

There are tons of people who have huge collections of things that they get tired of seeing. I just see it as a waste.tonhave hundreds of snes carts all over the place and the to get tired of them later. Whatever talking to collectors is like trying to get someone off meth. It isn't easy.

Gentlegamer

10-23-2015, 08:53 AM

So it's not at all a "greasy tactic" to make bootlegs and profit off of a product you have no ownership over? And what about that the fact that bootleg goods are often not produced by one single individual but rather associated with organized crime? You're cool with possibly funneling money into the Chinese mafia?

That's all preferable to a rare game being expensive on the used market because that's what collectors are willing to pay for it?

The collectards dumping stupid money into R@R3 G@M3S L@@K caused this, they will reap what they sow.

Tanooki

10-23-2015, 09:03 AM

Niku I never backtracked the seller, looked like aliexpress though so it shouldn't be hard I wouldn't think. I was just referring to the N64 stuff, but the SNES definitely not if they're just cheap molds that included the security screw being copied as part of the plastic so that it's a snap case. If the guy has solid reviews and lots of people are happy I don't see why it wouldn't be a good decision if you can save a bundle and have a legit cart there versus just some ROM dump loading flash kit.

Zthun po-tay-toe -- po-tah-toe The tactics involved in putting it there is a scam and that to me is wrong. And being technical scalping depending on the venue can be illegal (not in this case though.)

Aussie - We never agree I know that and I'd rather the triads have the money. They're both greasy tactics, just a different type. I'd rather support someone making a cheap quality copycat when it comes to games. I don't much care who or what made it, and that goes into anything. I don't care if some little chinese kid is sewing my shoes together for 10cents an hour or if it's some local doing it for $10/hr as that's getting into whiny political agendas which I ignore. I'd rather if the price was low enough, and the thing was sold accurately as a copy, pay to the modern game maker (even if it's as you speculate the chinese mafia) than someone with a legit game trying to hose me out of hundreds. I'd rather give the money to someone making a product than a scalper trying to squeeze an inflated cost out of a good they have as they're producing nothing. Mind you if the game in question was still actively for sale, I'd rather buy the original every time to support the company (so if someone were making PS4 boots of Uncharted Trilogy I'd be pissed, but we're talking dead games here.) I basically put legit first when from the maker, second I'd pay a person making a duplicate without permission (or for a flash kit if I wanted one again), and lastly because I view them as bottom feeders I'd deal with the scalper who I view as less than a bootlegger as they're producing nothing.

The bootlegger is basically just selling a ROM on a set of chips in a nice wrapper package. The other guy is trying to sell me the same ROM on legit old parts and stickers, and since I don't value games beyond what they were worth really 5 years ago before this problem started I'm not going to pay up and whatever the seller of that is to me I really don't care. I see it as paying a bit to have a tangible copy instead of having to use a meaningless free copy on my computer and I'm fine with that.

kai -- I understand what you're saying, but I see getting a pure copy of a cart as no worse, other than the fact you just get one game, not the ability to run whatever. In the end they're both front-ends to run illegal ROMs so neither is any better or worse than the other. I don't buy enough to justify a flash kit anymore and I know with the time I have I'd not get the value out of it. You're right though talking to collectors will get you nowhere as they're control freak addicts.

Daria

10-23-2015, 10:14 AM

Aussie - We never agree I know that and I'd rather the triads have the money. They're both greasy tactics, just a different type. I'd rather support someone making a cheap quality copycat when it comes to games. I don't much care who or what made it, and that goes into anything. I don't care if some little chinese kid is sewing my shoes together for 10cents an hour or if it's some local doing it for $10/hr as that's getting into whiny political agendas which I ignore. I'd rather if the price was low enough, and the thing was sold accurately as a copy, pay to the modern game maker (even if it's as you speculate the chinese mafia) than someone with a legit game trying to hose me out of hundreds. I'd rather give the money to someone making a product than a scalper trying to squeeze an inflated cost out of a good they have as they're producing nothing.

I was going to ask if you would seriously support an organization that murders people (http://time.com/10445/hong-kong-triads-have-lower-profile/) just to spite some predatory resellers. But after reading that quote, I guess you would. What an incredibly selfish, and ignorant thing to say. Advocating the suffering an exploitation of - anyone - just to save a few bucks on classic games is pretty damn low. That attitude is equally as disgusting, if not worse, then those of the people you complain about at NA.

Disclaimer: I don't know that bootleg carts are the product of the Triads, I never thought about it before, but apparently they do have ties to widescale film bootleging so it would make sense. Aussie's theory isn't at all far-fetched. That said I'm purely responding to the notion, even if you don't believe her, that it's irrelevant.

retro junkie

10-23-2015, 10:45 AM

My problem is that once the door is open, then the cheap copies become available. I remember several years ago being enthused about Astro boy on the GBA. I wanted to purchase a copy as a gift. I went on eBay and found a copy. When it arrived it felt funny, very different from my copy. I opened it up and the case was thin. The PCB had a glop in the middle of where the chip should have been. It played ok but I did not give it as a gift. Even though the price was good, I was disappointed. If it is a fake then tell me it is a fake. I will purchase it if that is what I want. I know they are not hiding that fact here concerning the N64 games. But I am not sure I agree with the market being flooded with junk. What about the quality of the fakes, cheap caps that will deteriorate over a short period? Obviously "money" is what it is all about with these people, not providing me with a cost saving version to help me out.
8339

I do have mixed feelings. I have three Sega fakes that have the glop on the PCB. I purchased these for $15 USD each knowing what they were. So I guess I find the price of the N64 fakes somewhat disturbing.
8340

Reproduction cart? If the price is right. But with these prices I would have to go with the suggestion of the everdrive 64 idea. I deep down would love to have the original cart. But the insane market puts them out of my reach.

celerystalker

10-23-2015, 11:06 AM

I was going to ask if you would seriously support an organization that murders people (http://time.com/10445/hong-kong-triads-have-lower-profile/) just to spite some predatory resellers. But after reading that quote, I guess you would. What an incredibly selfish, and ignorant thing to say. Advocating the suffering an exploitation of - anyone - just to save a few bucks on classic games is pretty damn low. That attitude is equally as disgusting, if not worse, then those of the people you complain about at NA.

Disclaimer: I don't know that bootleg carts are the product of the Triads, I never thought about it before, but apparently they do have ties to widescale film bootleging so it would make sense. Aussie's theory isn't at all far-fetched. That said I'm purely responding to the notion, even if you don't believe her, that it's irrelevant.

I like to think he's exaggerating to make a point and get people talking about a pet peeve of his with that one, as not just this thread, but as I'm sure everyone knows without me saying, a large percentage of his posts contain some mention of disliking the resale market or advocating for things like piracy in order to crash it. At the same time, he just bought an NES lot with the primary intent to resell it on ebay, paid for his PinBot by selling high-ticket games, and just posted in the Import Mania forum about how a "jackass from the UK" tried to pass him off a bootleg Alien Hominid for GBA and he complained and got it for free.

So, it's either hyperbole to get people talking, or it's really bad hypocrisy. I prefer to hope it's exaggeration.

Tanooki

10-23-2015, 11:10 AM

Daria and if that's how you care to see it that's fine. I was being sarcastic though saying the triad on there since aussie thought it would be cute to play the chinese mafia angle assuming they had anything at all to do with it in the least bit. The whole point was a trickle down thing -- If the company supports it, don't steal. If it's dead and they get nothing I'd rather buy a bootlegged good from a maker than some scumbag trying to scalp something (whatever that thing is, games, venue tickets, etc.)

I doubt bootleg games are a bother of the triads anyway, old nintendo carts couldn't possibly have the profit in them that ripping off new music and video/movies do which I'd understand an organization wanting to get in on. I'd say that supporting the scalper is equally as low, you're still supporting exploitation and they're not even making a good.

What I'm saying isn't ignorant, I get the entire concept of it which would make it not a stupid comment, selfish or just uncaring sure perhaps, but ignorant no. The chinese kids and shoes bit was alluding to what Nike does in China to get those $100+ high tops out there people flock to. I guess that makes all those shoe buyers scumbags too eh? It's really a fact of life. Why do you think companies all outsource their creation of goods to third world countries or those who treat their citizens as such (China?) They can still charge $100 for an item, but have it only cost them a couple bucks to make instead of like $20 due to US labor laws, pay, and so on. Might as well vilify every single person in this country who buys anything that doesn't say Made in the USA on the label since the item is made through cheap labor under shitty or at least less than ideal circumstances outside this country.

Retro we're on the same page there actually. I can't remember if I noted it on this forum but within the last month I bought on accident a bootleg GBA game from the UK I had no idea was actually bootlegged since it's not all that expensive cart alone ($30 USD converted) and I paid $20 shipped -- Alien Hominid. The shell is right, the board (pins and Nintendo ink under the hood) is right, and the label is right other than the finest parts of the lettering ink are like a hairs width more narrow. Inside though are 2 chips and a glop top in the middle -- it works right, it plays right, it even long term retains a save game right too. My problem, they didn't tell me it was dupe as I'd have paid about 1/2 what I did for it. Just like with those overpriced 1:1's of N64 games, if they were like $30~ and not $80 I'd be on board because they're being advertised as such so I know what I'm getting. I'd love an original too, and sure I could save a little and get one, but the prices are inane and I'd rather seek alternatives until it implodes in on itself.

For some it's about them getting money off people, others it would be cost savings and a middle finger to scalpers too, but everyone has their own reasons. I mean I have the printer and I can easily within a week get the supplies needed to make 1:1 labels for NES, SNES, GB stuff and N64 games most wouldn't be able to tell the difference on as I learned the process, but I just don't do it. Instead anyone asks I share the info on the how to do it and where to get the stuff because I'd rather someone keep their $300 game with the shitty label and have them replace it than sell it off to an uptight collector at a loss to re-buy the same thing for a sticker.

By the way went poking around on aliexpress for 64bit game card, found all four games being done so far on N64. Of the 4 only 1 of them costs less than the reproduction. Also they're now charging $67 for them, not $80 so it's down some.
Harvest Moon 64 is a $50 game for legit, so that's over.

But...
Bomberman Second Attack $150 vs $67
Worms Armageddon $125 vs $67
Clayfighter Sculpters Cut $230 vs $67
(prices are averages on paid ebay currently)

Seems Little Samson is up there for $25 at the same type of run off quality too. I'm actually pretty tempted to snap up Worms or Bomberman just to check out the quality of it, Samson too due to price.

Tanooki

10-23-2015, 11:17 AM

I like to think he's exaggerating to make a point and get people talking about a pet peeve of his with that one, as not just this thread, but as I'm sure everyone knows without me saying, a large percentage of his posts contain some mention of disliking the resale market or advocating for things like piracy in order to crash it. At the same time, he just bought an NES lot with the primary intent to resell it on ebay, paid for his PinBot by selling high-ticket games, and just posted in the Import Mania forum about how a "jackass from the UK" tried to pass him off a bootleg Alien Hominid for GBA and he complained and got it for free.

So, it's either hyperbole to get people talking, or it's really bad hypocrisy. I prefer to hope it's exaggeration.

We have a winner...hyperbole and exaggeration. As far as that NES lot goes, I kept what I wanted and sold the rest, and while no excuse I priced them to move lower on there and everything but 2 of the games are gone at this point. I just wish that z-bag I always wanted with that lot wasn't ruined as I intended that as the big keeper in it. :( My Pinbot as well as this laptop and tablets I've bought were as you said, bought off expensive and not so expensive games, but they weren't bought online or off as flip fodder. I've been slicing my game collection for years now. I've fairly well bottomed out without just wanting to get rid of a console or handheld all together at this rate so anything I sell anymore now will be stuff I tire of or like the NES lot where I buy to keep some, sell some to get my money back primarily. Sure it could look like hypocrisy I get that, but what's the alternative? Sell everything with a $5-10Bin on ebay so a reseller could then cash in on it? I'd rather make something on it, but enough that flipping it isn't enticing to others.

Funny how this all derailed the whole N64 game story I found eh? I've wondered for years why no one has bothered with it other than like the few known NESWorld covered years ago (Mario 64, Pilotwings and Wave Race I believe.) Perhaps it's just not be a matter of not knowing but being too expensive until now?

Aussie2B

10-23-2015, 02:39 PM

I was being sarcastic though saying the triad on there since aussie thought it would be cute to play the chinese mafia angle assuming they had anything at all to do with it in the least bit.

I'm not trying to be "cute" or hyperbolic here. I'm presenting a very fair possibility. I'm sorry if that makes you too uncomfortable to even entertain the notion. Bootlegging, no matter who is doing it, is a crime. It's long been a staple of organized crime along with prostitution, drug trafficking, illegal gambling, etc. Everybody knows there's widespread bootlegging of entertainment products and other non-essentials, like movies and handbags, and given the sheer quantity of bootleg games that exist for certain game platforms, like Famicom and GBA, all signs point to bigger operations rather than sole individuals producing them. I don't know if there's ever been solid confirmation of bootleg games being produced by organized crime, but I do know that it's been confirmed that bootleg game and anime soundtracks have been produced by organized crime units in Hong Kong and/or Taiwan. If there's money to be made, why wouldn't they also deal in bootleg games? So like Daria said, it's not a far-fetched idea.

Daria

10-23-2015, 04:32 PM

We have a winner...hyperbole and exaggeration.

...Yeah you don't get to claim hyperbole and then go to write a book justifying the callous dismissal of human rights in a foreign country. It's one or the other.

FieryReign

10-23-2015, 04:36 PM

Mafia dons and Triads are running retrogame bootleg operations now. Yeah. Ok. Sure. And for the shitty N64 at that? Some people watch too many movies.

Niku-Sama

10-23-2015, 05:51 PM

Not so far fetched in all honesty. Easy money really. I know some of us are interested in getting some of these games and I'm sure they are only a few bucks in parts. Major profit to be had

bb_hood

10-23-2015, 05:59 PM

But...
Bomberman Second Attack $150 vs $67
Worms Armageddon $125 vs $67
Clayfighter Sculpters Cut $230 vs $67
(prices are averages on paid ebay currently)

Seems Little Samson is up there for $25 at the same type of run off quality too. I'm actually pretty tempted to snap up Worms or Bomberman just to check out the quality of it, Samson too due to price.

You really dont see the difference between buying an authintic item for X amount of dollars and buying a shitty bootleg for 1/4 or 1/2 the price?? Really??
People arent paying 120-200$ to play these, they are worth that much because they are originals and rare items. Shitty boolegs are not originals, they are simply produced to sell to fools. You get what you pay for. At 67$ they are total ripoff. THey probably cost less than 2$ to produce.

Ali Express sells tons of fake crap. Only retards buy garbage off that site thinking they are getting good deals or even anything close to quality.

FieryReign

10-23-2015, 06:12 PM

Not so far fetched in all honesty. Easy money really. I know some of us are interested in getting some of these games and I'm sure they are only a few bucks in parts. Major profit to be had

Um, no.

Tanooki

10-23-2015, 07:26 PM

...Yeah you don't get to claim hyperbole and then go to write a book justifying the callous dismissal of human rights in a foreign country. It's one or the other.

Not really honey. Everyone dismisses it every time they shop at Walmart, buy some Nike shoes, purchases a car...you name it. Every person including yourself would be considered callous and dismssing of human rights unless you're living some granola life style of walking or biking everywhere, making your own clothes and food, etc being totally self sustaining in your own home. Are you? I doubt it.

Aussie: I'm dismissing it because the odds are very slim. You could only begin to imagine what the chinese mafia may have their hands in on any good that says made in china/hong kong on it you find relatively anywhere these days on or off line. I'm really not going to dig into the back ground of every product as I don't feel a need to have my conscience cleared by their very existence. Show me X item is backed by such a group with proof, sure I won't buy it, but I'm not just going to assume things. Personally I'd admit as much I'd be very interested and curious since you brought it up now in this thread if some ties could be proven as it would be very interesting.

Niku -- No doubt, they're still expensive even at $67 and yes it probably costs them $5 in parts and label work a piece in bulk so sure there' making good cash if enough of them are scooped up, but the initial R&D, part orders, tooling, making molds and so on likely wasn't that cheap so it surely plays into that.

bb -- Sure I do. I know what it is entirely, but it crossed my pain threshold and I'd love to see it sabotaged entirely. Some of them are legitimately rare, others are puffed up frauds as rare to score money off chumps too as it's really both going on at this rate. Something like say Bangaioh on N64 had only 10K copies and it runs $100+ in good shape for just the game, but another like say the Konami trio of Castlevania 4, Contra 3, and TMNT4 on SNES which had multiple print runs for years now going for like $50 just for the game and fools writing RARE L@@K on them to bait chumps isn't cool. If something is legitimately rare sure I get it, but there's so much lying and scheming on half million plus run off titles it doesn't add up.

Not all bootlegs are shitty and made poorly, historically definitely, but in the last year to two the quality coming out from over there is frighteningly solid especially on the GBA stuff and these new 8bit and up boards like Little Samson and Worms 64 has too. The more I dig the more I'm seeing they're getting good quality build materials and facilities going on these which surprises me. The new stuff now uses a mix of quality boards and chips, sometimes mixed with glop tops, and one big change is that batteries are no longer used to retain save data or worse any data on the chips as they've moved into chips that retain saves on their own. The plastics have gone up in quality to match the originals, even the labels down to the artsy metallic shiny pokemon fire red/leaf green stuff is being duplicated spot on too. Like it or not that old wall of crap vs quality is being hammered down and quickly as of late which is why I find these N64 bootlegs fascinating.

Aussie2B

10-23-2015, 07:31 PM

Mafia dons and Triads are running retrogame bootleg operations now. Yeah. Ok. Sure. And for the shitty N64 at that? Some people watch too many movies.

If someone is just out to make money, do you seriously think they give a damn if the bootlegged item is retro or modern, or if it's on what you deem a "shitty" system? In fact, there are tons of faked antiques out there, so it's not a novel concept to bootleg an older item.

Nobody ever said that the upper echelon of organized crime is personally dealing in bootleg games. Just that there's a possibility that any pirated good may have some connection to organized crime, especially if it's a convincing bootleg and made in considerable quantities.

I swear, though, this board has fallen so low that we now have topics like this, where people are actually arguing that bootleg games are a good thing for game collectors. This would never happen here 5, 10 years ago. At least not without the whole community piling on the poor sap, having a field day of it.

Tanooki

10-23-2015, 07:35 PM

Five to Ten years ago was before all those assholes showed up using the gaming community as a wallet filling punching bag too. The vultures tend to swoop in on one thing after another until they pick it to the bones and once the corpse is clean move onto the rest. Sports cards, comics, pogs, beanie babies, etc. Gaming is just the lastest victim of the vulture. This topic wouldn't exist a half decade ago because the abuses weren't happening where stuff is decided to suddenly be rare and cool to have so some random game skyrockets in price 5-10 fold over night.

I may sound bitter, good. I've run into this crap before as a kid and had two hobbies as a child stolen away from me because I was priced right out of it, or if not priced, had the copies of X item bought up locally before I could get one on my limited allowance I got doing chores. I had a really fun time of it for years until Comics and baseball cards got fucked in the same tactics offline back around 1990-92 which caused them both to implode just a few years after that point. The few honest to god true rares stayed up, and the rest of them lied about to higher values crumbled back to reality.

BlastProcessing402

10-23-2015, 07:40 PM

And what happens when the greasy resellers buy these and then sells them falsely as originals? Then you've got this garbage at overinflated prices instead of authentic carts at overinflated prices. I dunno about you but I don't see that as a good thing.

Aussie2B

10-23-2015, 07:42 PM

Not really honey.

I apologize to Daria in advance if I'm overstepping my boundary here, as this was directed at her, not me, but lay off that sexist BS. Unless you're close to her, you're in no place to be calling any woman "honey", let along throwing that out in a condescending manner in an argument. If you wouldn't say it to a male user, you probably shouldn't be saying it to a female user.

Tanooki

10-23-2015, 07:45 PM

I kind of have the caveat emptor approach to it. Like I said, I got this month a not advertised bootleg Alien Hominid GBA. I wasn't mad about it, I just went through the ebay process, and ultimately in the end they didn't want to accept responsibility so ebay took my money out of the sellers account and returned it and told me to keep it since it was fake. Win-win really... got a free bootleg and someone learned a lesson for not being honest about it and accepting responsibility about it. At first I felt it could have been a mistake, but them ignoring me and both US and UK ebay my compassion went out the door on that one. I find unless someone wants to open up and show the item is real, anything online game or not is a risk and you accept that since you can't inspect it in person.

Aussie: I would, but I think honey would be weird for a dude.

FieryReign

10-23-2015, 07:57 PM

If someone is just out to make money, do you seriously think they give a damn if the bootlegged item is retro or modern, or if it's on what you deem a "shitty" system? In fact, there are tons of faked antiques out there, so it's not a novel concept to bootleg an older item.

Nobody ever said that the upper echelon of organized crime is personally dealing in bootleg games. Just that there's a possibility that any pirated good may have some connection to organized crime, especially if it's a convincing bootleg and made in considerable quantities.

I swear, though, this board has fallen so low that we now have topics like this, where people are actually arguing that bootleg games are a good thing for game collectors. This would never happen here 5, 10 years ago. At least not without the whole community piling on the poor sap, having a field day of it.

How much money is in it for organized crime? Seriously, if you think they're targeting a handful of nerds with rare N64 tapes, you need a dose of reality wherever your from. N64 is not even demanded, aside from those crappy rental-onlys. So yes, it would be shitty if it ain't making money.

It's called designer drugs and synthetics, this biz is booming coming straight out of China. Shit like flakka and molly, that market is on fire right now. Guess who the #1 customers are? Yep, us Americans. It's pretty much all profit and keeping the fiends coming back for more guaranteed future sales. Made cheap, sold at a high price. You really think these dudes would waste time and effort bootlegging a fucking Clay Fighter: Sculptors Cut game that only a few people give a fuck about?

For real. Y'all need to stop treating this shit like it's antiques and like it's some kinda future college fund. It's fucking N64.

Aussie2B

10-23-2015, 08:15 PM

Aussie: I would, but I think honey would be weird for a dude.

So why don't you think for a moment about why it would be weird?

How much money is in it for organized crime? Seriously, if you think they're targeting a handful of nerds with rare N64 tapes, you need a dose of reality wherever your from. N64 is not even demanded, aside from those crappy rental-onlys. So yes, it would be shitty if it ain't making money.

It's called designer drugs and synthetics, this biz is booming coming straight out of China. Shit like flakka and molly, that market is on fire right now. Guess who the #1 customers are? Yep, us Americans. It's pretty much all profit and keeping the fiends coming back for more guaranteed future sales. Made cheap, sold at a high price. You really think these dudes would waste time and effort bootlegging a fucking Clay Fighter: Sculptors Cut game that only a few people give a fuck about?

For real. Y'all need to stop treating this shit like it's antiques and like it's some kinda future college fund. It's fucking N64.

Never said anything of the sort. I brought up antiques as an example of items that are not available on the current market that are bootlegged, not as a value comparison. I have never once advocated treating games like an investment.

Obviously whoever is behind the N64 bootlegs doesn't feel it's profitable to deal in most N64 games. They're only dealing in the titles with the highest values on the used market. It's obviously profitable or they wouldn't be doing it. They're not doing it as a favor to collectors. And like with antiques, though again this is no comparison of value, you don't waste your time counterfeiting antiques that barely sell for anything. You go for the relatively big ticket items, and you don't flood the market with too many at a time because then, even in a best-case scenario where people don't catch on, you'll drop the value and, in turn, your profit margin when there are now more than enough copies of something that had gained its value through the virtue of being limited.

bb_hood

10-23-2015, 08:17 PM

I may sound bitter, good. I've run into this crap before as a kid and had two hobbies as a child stolen away from me because I was priced right out of it,

Oh boo-fucking-hoo, dont start with that shit. If you cant afford video games then dont collect. You constantly complain about resellers but have no qualms about reselling games yourself. And with the fake game you bought off ebay, yeah you filed a claim BECAUSE YOU DIDDNT WANT IT. If ebay hadnt given you your money back you would have felt ripped-off. Thats what these '1:1' bootlegs are all about, creating goods that people can scam other people with.

The reality is that an influx of chinese bootlegs will only cause prices on authentic games to go up. It will just be harder for collectors to find authentic games and thus make them more valuable. NOBODY wants fake chinese games.

The idea that shitty bootlegs are cheaper alternatives to originals is just laughable. And to suggest that at 67$ they are a better deal is downright moronic.

And yeah it was pretty disrespectful calling Daria honey. You deserve a bitchslap for that.

celerystalker

10-23-2015, 08:46 PM

Bootlegs have definitely had a negative effect on the Neo Geo MVS and AES markets. They've caused many cheap titles to become harder to get due to cannibalizing parts for some, and also created a premium for authentic carts, with sellers having to display the pcbs in order to get bids, which go crazy for authentic products. Prices have increased, as has mistrust among the fan community for trading. What bootlegs have done has never been to lower cost or crash markets. They've simply created paranoia and required traders and sellers to have to open every product in order to constantly authenticate. There was a time when nobody bothered to own security bits. Now everybody has a set, because we can't trust anything.

Zthun

10-23-2015, 08:47 PM

I don't understand the logic of buying bootlegs over flash carts. You're spending 60-100 for a non authentic copy rather than buying a cart that can play all the copies of nearly everything you want which are also non-authentic.

Roms labeled with [!] are verified dumps that's a 1:1 copy of the game. Older systems generally have full sets or nearly full sets of these. Why spend 60-100 for a fake copy? Is the artwork on the fake really worth that much?

celerystalker

10-23-2015, 08:51 PM

Tanooki

10-23-2015, 09:05 PM

Apparently a few of you are fairly thick and just like to go in circles, that's fine. Aussie, no thanks, and I think it's fair to say I'll good at standing my ground as I really don't give a flip what most people think anymore especially online as it gets you nowhere in life.

BB--whatever. I can afford, I choose not to. I'm not stupid enough to pay into a scalpers wallet. I find it for a fair price or I don't need it, or I'll buy a bootleg or use a rom and some form of emulator, or if necessary I sell something to get something. I see no reason to pay a rape fee setup to rip off fools and suckers. Whether you like it or not, history doesn't change and I was speaking of myself as a kid on a $5-7 a week allowance. Once those comics hit 1.50-2/ea I no longer could get them anymore so I was forced to quit, that's what the point of it was, and I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now seeing it done to another hobby I like so I won't play ball. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. If you feel good paying $100-300+ for a game that intentionally got fudged up in price by shenanigans, feel free, but get outside of insane collector circles and good luck rationalizing a puffed up fake value on stuff. You're right, I do have no problem selling and reselling games, it has become a near requirement thanks to the shit that's going on, but as much as I find it distasteful sometimes you just have to go with the flow. Not that it's much on the conscience (which it isn't) but I'll on ebay price under others just to move the stuff, just I don't start them at a penny or a dollar in case some flipper gets lucky as I'm not going to help someone hose another.

And no, I filed the claim because I was lied to. Before even making the claim I wrote the seller, twice. He ignored me. I then called ebay and they opened the claim after I explained to them what it was and the circumstances of it being overseas. I said I wanted a partial refund or to let me return it. I never asked for a full refund, that was ebay UK's choice in the end. I asked through the claim a third time and got nowhere, then the US office, then finally the UK one, so they did the full refund. I was totally fine keeping it at a fair price for a bootleg as it works 100% and has good parts in it and looks 1:1 on the outside as well. I just wasn't going to pay the real going rate for a copy.

I also never suggested $67 was a deal, just lower than an original, and if you read back I think I said around $40 I think would be decent as it really depends on the cost of what goes into it in the end and the persons time counts for something too making the thing. I'd never pay $67 but if it were half that I'd be game on Worms Armageddon and Bomberman as well as they're fun. And disrespect goes both ways, you don't ever see me pull that on here normally now do you?

The only advantage to a pirate, at least a convincing one, can be to save money, or because you have no interest in a copier cart and just one a specific game or two and that's it on a system. I've had a few famiclones for instance such as Moon Crystal which I paid like $20-30 for, and it's a $120+ game. I still have one in that range, Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa which I got with a honeybee for like $10-15. Often the bootlegs cost notably less than an original, it's not just one way. I didn't buy either to collect, I bought them to enjoy and play on a real cart in a real system. I put some money into it, so it had value and made me want to get that value while a dumb rom on a copier cart or in a computer has no value so my motivation doesn't exist. That's why I don't keep a copier cart around anymore, it just sits.

The 1 2 P

10-23-2015, 09:13 PM

I don't buy bootlegs so obviously I wouldn't like if they started to be harder to identify from the real thing. I deal with that enough with certain anime dvds at Goodwills and flea markets. I remember when bootlegs just had a poorly printed out label that was made by a random amateur. But now some of the disc and cases look a little too professionally made for my taste.

Zthun

10-23-2015, 09:53 PM

In your post about the games, you said if they were half price you would think that's a good deal right? I'm going to round the games to $34. Since there's only 3 of them that you think are interesting, then the total comes to $102. The everdrive 64 v2.5 is $99. Even if you only wanted worms and bomberman at half price, that's still only $30 less than the flash cart. You're not saving much money. Of course, if you only buy one game EVER, then I can see your point, but the moment you get a 2nd game or a 3rd game, you've overshot the overall financial worth.

I thought about your 2nd point that it gives you value to encourage you to play the games. I would think that if you were truly interested in the actual games, the monetary value would be irrelevant and you could simply play them on an emulator. What I'm deducing is that you don't seem all that interested in playing the games, but more so in trying to punish those that caused the inflation in the first place.

The only reason I can see the argument from my standpoint is if you're trying to gather up pirate carts for the fun of collecting pirate carts. That I can see as everyone has different reasons for collecting what they collect. But the outlandish claims that it's cheaper is almost guaranteed to be false in the long run.

BetaWolf

10-24-2015, 12:42 AM

To be honest, I wish the seller would invest in putting rom hacks and translations on cart, making a custom label, and selling them as repros. I don't think there are common tools to do that yet, unless someone buys one of these flash carts to reverse engineer it. I'd love to own a translated Doubutsu no Mori cart that didn't require a mutilated legit cart. There's much easier justification in that than a bootleg of a domestically released game.

SparTonberry

10-24-2015, 02:29 AM

How much money is in it for organized crime? Seriously, if you think they're targeting a handful of nerds with rare N64 tapes, you need a dose of reality wherever your from. N64 is not even demanded, aside from those crappy rental-onlys. So yes, it would be shitty if it ain't making money.

It's called designer drugs and synthetics, this biz is booming coming straight out of China. Shit like flakka and molly, that market is on fire right now. Guess who the #1 customers are? Yep, us Americans. It's pretty much all profit and keeping the fiends coming back for more guaranteed future sales. Made cheap, sold at a high price. You really think these dudes would waste time and effort bootlegging a fucking Clay Fighter: Sculptors Cut game that only a few people give a fuck about?

For real. Y'all need to stop treating this shit like it's antiques and like it's some kinda future college fund. It's fucking N64.

Better example: bottom of the barrel NES games. Was anyone asking for Sesame Street pirated on Famicom carts? No, well it's been done anyways.
I've seen repros of Stadium Events. What's the fucking point besides ripping people off? Isn't the reason anyone buys that overhyped title screen variant because they want the original? Geez, just buy fucking World Class Track Meet for like 1/1000th of the price. It's not like you're probably gonna play the thing anyways.

Tanooki

10-24-2015, 01:00 PM

Zthun to your first point I think youre ignoring that for some people they either dont like flash carts or they dont like the ADHD some lack of self control can happen with that. Sure the device itself has value but the games being roms do not too. I for one cant focus on a game on one of those long for all before jumping to another plus I dont feel invested in it either so I dont care to bother and would move onto something physical that does.

Your second part -- Sure punishing people is nice, but no when Im not worn out or busy with my four year old I do play, she will too a little as well with a mario or kirby 8bit game. The investment to me is that a rom costs nothing, but even a bootleg costs something and that money could have gone to something else, so I want me values worth while a rom has non and can just be clicked off or erased.

If you only have interest in a game or two (or a cheap few) as legit or pirate releases they easily can cost less than a flash kit, so yes they can be cheaper if that is all you want from it. Thats how I am with it. Pirates I do not actively get. I hae a supervision 115in1 NES game, Starfox 2 on SNES, 2 retrozone warez carts of Gradius 2 and Kid Dracula I was gifted or traded for, and that Alien Hominid bootleg. Thats it. Ive had a few other nes and snes multicarts before and a mother3 and dqm caravan heart gba cart too but theyre all gone.

Betawolf -- Dont agree on the domestics, something should be done to fight the scalpers, but I do agree entirely it would be great if translation patched games could be done such as the original Animal Crossing, Wonder Project J2 and various others would be great. Id buy that.

SparTonberry

10-24-2015, 01:44 PM

I do remember some reasons N64 bootlegs weren't as common: Nintendo made multiple CICs, with each game's protection linked to the CIC version it was meant to use as a means to at least make things more annoying for pirates. Also copiers making bootleg carts redundant.
Looking over some old GamePros, I see at least once they actually ran an ad for one copier. I don't know if it's more laughable that the copier maker ran an ad in such a highly visible place (where no doubt Nintendo would see it) or that GamePro would not check their advertisements (because you know, despite being advertised as a game development tool, "play cart or backup file" of a then-current gen console is a pretty big red flag, isn't it?)
I didn't get very many magazines of that era, as I only had an SNES and Game Boy then and my parents were the type that believed having one console was enough, and that was the end of the era. So I don't know how long those ads ran before Nintendo undoubtedly contacted them about it.

Now, Virtual Boy was a console to have NO piracy, until a few years ago when a fan-made flash cart was developed. (resulting in a few fan-made bootleg ports like Street Fighter II)

Tanooki

10-24-2015, 06:56 PM

You're right about the CICs and they also had various microcode choices to use as well to tell the system to work a specific way, I guess in a really badly made comparison here much like how the NES would do things it didn't think of doing normally but did with memory mappers and bank switch routines thrown onto the games. I think it all caused a problem where it made it too complex to make the bootlegs as I really doubt the small chip size of the N64 was much of a stumbling block. There have been a lot of breakthroughs the last few years with n64 emulation which in turn since it's open source can be used by bootleggers and others too. The holy grail of stupid stuff that was near impossible for a decade to crack was the LucasArts trinity of hell which at the high end were both Indiana Jones and Battle for Naboo. They still run sketchy, but they have their own made up microcode which gets the N64 to do some stuff it wasn't even meant to do from scratch such as bypassing the small memory buffer limitation it has to store graphical data. The code they created allowed that wall to be bypassed and in turn you got the insane attention to detail, large draw distances, and just more on screen stuff going on in those 2 games no other could handle using the stock stuff Nintendo laid out for developers. Currently there are a couple sketchy plugins for PJ64 and I think it's mupen64 that will run the games, even then with some flaws as they're still being figured out. Stuff like that really made bootlegging a pain in the ass and also stopped any form of trying to do translated roms to a cartridge. I think that's why we really only for the longest time just had a few basic day one (or near) games (Mario and Pilotwings and Wave Race) as copycats going back some years.

Daria

10-25-2015, 09:31 PM

I apologize to Daria in advance if I'm overstepping my boundary here, as this was directed at her, not me, but lay off that sexist BS. Unless you're close to her, you're in no place to be calling any woman "honey", let along throwing that out in a condescending manner in an argument. If you wouldn't say it to a male user, you probably shouldn't be saying it to a female user.

My respect for Tanooki kind of took a shitter in this thread. I don't care if people are bootlegging carts, or wasting their money on counterfeit garbage. But I do think your organized crime theory warrants some thought. Or at least some respect, which you're not getting. Plus seeing Tanooks place such emphasis on his ability to save money on a collection at any cost. That's just gross. The honey was literally icing on the shit cake.

I'm not into shouting at a wall for argument's sake though, so I'm pretty much done with this thread. Just wanted to say you're not out of line, and you're not crazy. Don't take their crap to heart.

Niku-Sama

10-26-2015, 03:22 AM

eh?
I totally gotta stop skimming threads...

as a dude type person the "honey" thing seems rather patronizing in text
usually best used with a wifey type person or other significant other, maybe a kid, or if your talking to a sassy southern woman and she says it all the time in the conversation your having....in person.

or if you describing bee barf

so I get where they are coming from

Tanooki

10-26-2015, 09:26 AM

Niku admitting the obvious here isn't going to help me any but patronizing was the intent considering the snark I got. The fact it was distorted from assumption into buying bootleg games as supporting the mafia by her, and then accusing me of actively supporting the triads for video games annoyed me. I wasn't advocating directly the support of some criminal group that'll cause people to suffer or death for the sake of bomberman or whatever title. She chose to bold part of a sentence I made on the bigger picture of cheap goods from the third world most people don't even give a crap about into some personal attack.

I still find it hypocritical she can't seem to answer the question if she buys anything made overseas in third world countries or China. No one has a right to complain about best price on goods they buy if they come from those countries. I just happened to be the one that pointed it out in comparison/contrast to overpriced game prices and took unwarranted crap for it. Most consumers save money at any cost, including the cost of people every time they don't buy something straight up made here. I'm kind of surprised this is still going in circles anyway, let it go. The fact this entire thread got derailed into agendas and stupid stuff is equally as annoying. I was shooting for just showing that stuff, debating the application of it, and any other ideas which could pop up (like the one I hadn't thought of, copy catting that to run off translated games we didn't get which is a good idea.)

That's that and no more explanation is needed. We can either put the thread back on track, let it die, or someone can lock it since the train clearly jumped the track.

Gameguy

10-26-2015, 04:26 PM

We can either put the thread back on track, let it die, or someone can lock it since the train clearly jumped the track.
What was the track of the thread originally?

"Hey guys, someone is making pirated shit indistinguishable from real copies, mostly to rip people off. Isn't it great!! You don't agree? Stop posting in my thread!"

I do remember some reasons N64 bootlegs weren't as common: Nintendo made multiple CICs, with each game's protection linked to the CIC version it was meant to use as a means to at least make things more annoying for pirates. Also copiers making bootleg carts redundant.
The biggest reason there weren't many pirate carts made back in the day was because of other consoles out at the time. It was cheaper to just make PS1 pirates on CD than N64 carts as those chips were more expensive back then. The PS1 sold better than the N64 too so there was little reason to make fake carts over CDs.

Niku-Sama

10-26-2015, 07:05 PM

Bootlegs

10-26-2015, 07:53 PM

A few things to point out before decending into the hyperbole that buying shitty Famiclone carts supports ISIS, a couple things to consider:

Child labor, slave wages, & sweatshops exist far, far beyond the scope of our little video game hobby. Whatever device you're reading this on was probably assembled by someone paid next to nothing, whether it's the newest iPhone or a shitty knockoff Android tablet. With the exception of large items (houses, cars) and food items virtually everything you own has been produced overseas or south of the Rio Grande with labor conditions you can't imagine. Why stop the lynch mob at shitty knockoff electronics?

Much copyright infringement we think of as illegal bootleg goods that obviously go hand in hand with drug mules and sex slavery is actually state sanctioned, legal business... until those goods cross boarders into Western markets. Prime example, the reason pirates used to remove the Sega logo and have shitty box art was by removing those very things the item was now 100% legal to copy. We identify bootleg Nike shoes with the mob because that's how it makes its way to us in Western markets. The factory that makes N64 carts makes a hundred different electronic products some of which you might even own. The point I'm making is we identify that as an illegal, shady product that's obviously sold by equally shady people, but in it's home country it's no more shady than you buying a hot dog from the cart on the corner.

But on topic, forget N64 carts. Loose AES carts are now a thing. No, not one-off $30k Aero Fighters 3, not a freaked KoF 2k, not a hand made MS conversion; I'm talking factory produced carts en-masse. There's your litmus test. Someone asked about starting a PCE collection here a few weeks ago and the resounding answer was "Why? Just pirate everything". $200 loose AES counterfeits that people know up front are fake, will they sell or collect dust?