I feel bad for some kids getting a PS4 this Christmas... [Archive]

stargate

12-03-2015, 06:12 PM

My girlfriend and I decided to get her 14 year old son a PS4 (Star Wars Battlefront bundle) for Christmas. This will be his first gaming system as his mom has historically been against them. He has been told he is definitely NOT getting one so he will be pretty psyched on Christmas morning.

The kid at Best Buy was smart enough to ask if this was a present and he recommended doing the set up and game install prior to giving him the gift. He pointed out that he could be sitting there for hours not being able to play the system. Wow, good point. I hope other retailers give the same advice! I unboxed it today and between the initial set up, creating a sub account for him, subscribing to PS Plus, all the verification processes, etc and finally the game download and install I am literally like 5 hours in. Gone are the plug and play days of old.

I would add that I am fairly tech savvy and already have a PSN account. I can't imagine some non tech parent having to go through all this nonsense on Christmas morning. Granted a lot of kids would know the drill, but certainly not all. I just imagine there will be a lot of kids sitting around on Christmas morning unable to play their new systems while mom or dad spends hours trying to figure out how to get everything set up. What a buzz kill.

Niku-Sama

12-03-2015, 07:59 PM

I setup a ps4 at my store off line and it didn't take long. Granted if you have battle front you'll want to play online but we had no problems

kupomogli

12-03-2015, 08:01 PM

Star Wars Battlefront probably took longer because of the online installs, but I'm sure off the disc the game took less than 10 minutes to install. If it was an offline game it wouldn't have taken long at all. I know when I first got a PS4, the first game I played was Infamous Second Son and I was playing the game within the first 10-20 minutes of hooking up the console. The Wii U on the other hand, minimum of two hours to set that up.

CRTGAMER

12-03-2015, 08:05 PM

The kid at Best Buy was smart enough to ask if this was a present and he recommended doing the set up and game install prior to giving him the gift. He pointed out that he could be sitting there for hours not being able to play the system. I unboxed it today and between the initial set up, creating a sub account for him, subscribing to PS Plus, all the verification processes, etc and finally the game download and install I am literally like 5 hours in. Gone are the plug and play days of old.
A very good point, the servers on Christmas day will likely really bog down!

Sadly, modern consoles have gone the way of Steam requiring a huge download and random online authentication just to play a game. The sad part is the games purchased (make that rented) today may be locked out when the license expires or when the next round of consoles comes out in a few years.

Aussie2B

12-03-2015, 09:42 PM

Systems are definitely more complicated than they used to be, but it wasn't always the easiest thing to get going in the past either. At least today's kids have parents who are generally more tech-savvy than my parents' generation. I've had to help them with things as simple as, say, hooking up a DVD player, so when I was little and needed help getting my new SNES hooked up, it seemed like something that took some work. By the time the N64 and PlayStation came around, I was a teen and could handle that myself, but then I ran into the problem of not having the accessories I needed. When I got my N64, I had to ask one of my parents to run me back to the store so that I could buy an RF adapter, since my TV then didn't support composite and I had no idea that the N64 wouldn't come with all the hookups I needed. I also had to run out the first time I bought a game that required a controller pak for saving.

retroman

12-03-2015, 11:27 PM

Man do I miss the good old days. F..k all this download isht.

Tanooki

12-03-2015, 11:54 PM

Did you run into problems? When I got mine it was like 15-30min tops. Stupid disc installs took longer and a new psn account can take probably ten minutes too.

I miss plug and play like the old days too. Even the blasted easy Nintendo stuff takes a little too now but nothing like the other guys. What's worse is if you're a keeper of stuff. Most games ship out as lame latte beta tests and get patches. Once those servers are gone the games likely could be partly broken or potentially useless. I didn't keep my ps3 games due to that and the PS4 titles will be the same I think too which to me is sick and makes it harder to ever justify paying full price so inrarely have as a result.

stargate

12-04-2015, 11:45 AM

We got him the PS4 Battlefront bundle which does not come with a physical disc, just a download code. The download and install took about 8 hours which seems about average from what I have read online.

True that older systems had some complicating factors. Should the TV be on channel 3 or 4? Where does this plug into? What the hell does this switch do? I need a memory card? What the heck is a memory card? Etc. But I have been dealing with systems on Christmas morning since the days of Pong and it has never been this bad.

In addition to the basic connection and system set up, a PS4 involves creating a PSN account, then PS Plus if you want to play online (a must for some games). So you've got email confirmation, entering credit card and personal info (all with the damn controller), jumping back and forth to your computer to get everything activated. Then create sub account(s) if you want your kids to play without unrestricted access to your wallet. Then don't forget the system updates that will need to be installed. Oh and then Battlefront told me I need to go online and create an EA account if I want to play online. So another account, email, password. Then you download and install the game, then the updates, and OK now you can play. After the tutorial of course.

I am just venting. There is much to love about next gen gaming and the PS4 is an impressive system. It was just an all day event yesterday getting set up and actually playing and I am thankful I did not wait to do this until Christmas. Now we can give him the present and he will be playing immediately. Unless the PSN servers crash of course. But that's another story. :)

Tanooki

12-04-2015, 11:56 AM

Oh no you're right it has become progressively far worse. The stuff in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were peon level problems that if you couldn't figure out how to line up Ch3/4 on your TV and the switch on your box or system you probably shouldn't be using it at all type stuff, or even worse, having no clue how a red, yellow and white cable could perhaps plug into the same colored plugs on the back of a TV...it was easy enough for a 5 year old to do.

The stuff now isn't. You have to unbox and setup all the stuff sometimes in somewhat of a particular order. Why? Synching up controllers at all let alone correctly with more than one. Then there's that whole mandatory internet settings issue most don't get lucky on just hitting the 'find it for me' type button, so then you have to know all your settings/passwords on that. Beyond that, what if your TV isn't what the system looks for stock, black screen or beeping, must hold buttons or something some way to get it to kick over. Then your games, most of them out of the box are broken, face it, if they weren't you wouldn't have so many games with day1-3 patches to fix up stuff that should have been pressed on the disc. That can take awhile. It gets worse if it's a huge update because of lots of foul ups, and as I said before if that server ever eats it your game is fubar in the future. And you hit the worst, the dozen gigabyte plus sized game download waiver sheet...might as well set it on autopilot and go to work for the day, maybe it'll be done when you're back home depending on your speeds. It's no longer fun nor a happy experience setting up a console because they've become bloated swiss army knives of harassment, computers are easier out of the box now to use immediately, once you get beyond that initial Windows or OSX startup bs for a few moments. Even if those need patching, they'll do it behind what you're messing with right off and nag you about it after the fact or have you reboot when convenient.

The least annoying I've dealt with was the WiiU and the 3DS, very few games Nintendo allows to slide through with problems, and it's legit accidents they tend to miss, not to pepper people with broken software in the box and their setup is typically shorter and less annoying but not by much.

Trust me I get you're venting and that PS4 you'll like. I got one on a weird bit of sorcery and luck 2 years back for $200 new. :P I don't game on it a huge amount but I do use it for that and movies and love it.

kupomogli

12-04-2015, 12:36 PM

The least annoying I've dealt with was the WiiU and the 3DS, very few games Nintendo allows to slide through with problems, and it's legit accidents they tend to miss, not to pepper people with broken software in the box and their setup is typically shorter and less annoying but not by much.

The Wii U didn't seem fine with me. When I was setting it up, it took you step by step for literally everything using the Gamepad like the player is stupid. Some of the stuff that it brought the player through was kind of cool, but still, I think it was a minimum of two hours to get through it, and that's without downloading the Wii backwards compatibility(something I still haven't done.) Also had to figure out how to the Pro controller as the first player controller, having to connect it through gamepad and then finding out how to turn the gamepad screen off, just more trouble than it's worth. I've probably played my Wii U less than 20 hours. For what is just a few great games, the system is garbage. The biggest disappointment I've ever had with a console purchase.

Tanooki

12-04-2015, 01:14 PM

I got it when it came out, so it setup fairly quick since the promised Wii support was like a year out, along with the lovely don't wait a minute for each menu to cycle garbage to be bugfixed out. It IS the biggest disappointment from Nintendo I paid for to, and I had a Virtual Boy, at least it worked out of the box and for its short life had more interesting support despite far less games. :) Between it and the Wii I don't trust their consoles anymore, so that NX is really going to have to sell me that they extracted their heads from their collective butts and learned how to get people to make games for them again or I don't know what I'll do. Perhaps I'll find one used so they don't get paid, wait on a deal like I did with PS4 that netted it for 50% off sticker, not sure.

Despite the slowness of the WiiU setup it was made easy enough for a peon to get through far more than the other two do.

The 1 2 P

12-04-2015, 09:31 PM

That seems to be the norm these days. I can't remember how long it took to set up my Xbox One but it was less than a half hour since I was just transferring over my 360 account to my XBO. Updates are always pretty quick and most of the game installs too. Only the 50 gb and higher downloads take an hour or more but you always get the option to start playing while the install takes place. But in this day and age they should probably put some sort of disclaimers on these new consoles so that the recipients are better prepared for what the actual out-of-box set up entails. Although this is more for the benefit of those less tech-savvy than most of us.

stargate

12-05-2015, 12:10 PM

lendelin

12-05-2015, 01:22 PM

stargate

12-05-2015, 02:17 PM

I don't feel sorry at all for kids who get a PS4 as a Christmas present. I wish someone would give ME such a nice Christmas gift. :)

A 14 yr old knows exactly what to expect when he gets a console. Even if he didn't have one so far, he knows from his friends what to do, how long it takes to set it up and he's used to it and doesn't question it. He didn't experience what we older folks experienced: cartridge based systems in which you plugged in a game and it played right away.

Don't feel sorry for them, envy them!

True! Maybe I should have said I feel bad for the parents who get stuck setting these things up. Honestly I think we are in a transitional stage with the technology. Once we all have hyper fast download speeds, hopefully it won't be as much of an issue.

Satoshi_Matrix

12-05-2015, 04:58 PM

I just imagine there will be a lot of kids sitting around on Christmas morning unable to play their new systems while mom or dad spends hours trying to figure out how to get everything set up. What a buzz kill.

This is really no different from how it was when we were all children. The only thing different is the form in which this situation is taking.

Did you ever get a gift that needed to be assembled? I sure did. Some toys and such come in compact boxes and require an adult to spend a significant amount of time to put together just so the little one can play with it for the first time.

This is just the digital version of that.

FieryReign

12-05-2015, 05:29 PM

JSoup

12-05-2015, 07:38 PM

I was going to call bull on the entire thread, as it took me less than half an hour to set my PS4 up and be playing games, but I just got back from a five our adventure to set up a friends PS4, connect her account and then make an account for her girlfriend. At some point following mine, this all got way more complicated.

stargate

12-05-2015, 08:05 PM

Tanooki

12-05-2015, 09:19 PM

Fuck all that. My son is getting a 2DS. But even that comes with a MK7 download. Complete asineness. Just put the fucking cart in there, good lord! Do these rich bastards look at the numbers? 60% of us don't have a broadband connection, yet this modern garbage pretty much requires it? Great way to limit your user-base and alienate others less fortunate.

Cheapskate-ass companies will be the downfall. Another crash is coming. You wouldn't believe the complaints I was hearing at a local gameslop. It's hilarious and not even their fault. These rich white douches just make shit more confusing for the common low class working man.

I know you're going for drama points, but you may not be that far off the mark if you look at the big picture of the future they will force upon us once they feel enough people have gigabit connections to get those downloads real fast. I already said on here enough times about what my game producer brother said what at least Sony and MS wish to do is remove all physical media but the slowness of what's there now forces them to minimize the disc releases to what you see now. Once they can drop the physical he said word was they'd drop prices by half not having to do any of the steps to make a physical game but why should they? If they removed the after market, they'd have a monopoly of sorts on game distribution. There would be zero motive since many would be trained to have download games. There would never be a reason for a clearance bin, ever. Why bother having mark downs that stick when you can do the random 10 or 20% off sale on a game for a few days here or there for an anniversary of it, bundle or whatever the idea is to validate it. It would be all the pad they claim they lose from us squatters buying cheap or buying used. Guarantee you if they start having 50GB game downloads and larger and them always being $50-60 they're going to get another crash of sorts, a high end console crash. With the tablets, the phones, and specifically android biting them in the ass for quality on the high end already now matching/barely passing PS3 stuff in appearance on tegra level processors why the hell should anyone take their shit? Get a Shield or whoever console, download those games for free to $15 on the most part. If you have a PC though, why bother with that when you can wait for rolling GoG and Steam sales making a $40 game maybe $15, 20 or $30 instead? Let them screw with people, it may take a decade but they'll pay for it.

I for one buy just a few games a year anymore on the console of choice I have, handheld gets more attention since it's more unique stuff and the price is 20-50% less at retail out the door and equally if not more interesting anyway. And I actively hit up GoG and here n' there Steam too. I see no reason to take the hit anymore since I can avoid it outside of exclusives.

FieryReign

12-05-2015, 09:38 PM

Yeah, that slows the used games market down, gameslops are just a mess nowadays. How about that huge percentage of us who don't have a broadband connection? Just ignore us? Sounds silly to me. You're limiting your potential customer base or trying to force them into something they just cannot do/afford.

These companies are thinking too far ahead of what people can afford. Do they not look at the economy?

SparTonberry

12-05-2015, 10:18 PM

enough people have gigabit connections to get those downloads real fast.
Then they'll make bigger downloads.
50GB for a Blu-ray already sounds pretty insane.

Give developers more powerful hardware, more memory, etc. and while I'm sure they'll make some good use of it but they'll also be more bloated and wasteful because they can.

I remember when I saw Madden 2005 or whatever at Best Buy and there was a warning it wanted an ENTIRE memory card to itself. I know sports games or that gen were getting pretty MC hoggy. (and even Star Ocean 3 I thought was pretty wasteful wanting over 1 of the 8 MB on the PS2 card, I assume just so it could take screenshots for each of its achivement-type things) And I was like... WHY? Even the latest Pokemon only uses 1 MB saves, I think. (I can't imagine the stat-tracking on fictitious creatures and digitalized athletes being too much different, memory wise)

Daria

12-05-2015, 10:48 PM

I dunno, I remember getting PC games back in the day and having to wait around for lengthy installations. Problem is modern consoles are just a crap ton of DRM away from being desktop computers.

SparTonberry

12-05-2015, 10:50 PM

One more example of modern BS I don't think has been brought up enough.
While some like Tanooki call digital sales "rentals", Adobe has LITERALLY been doing that for a few years now, haven't they?
You can't even buy Photoshop anymore, you can only "subscribe" and pledge to pay Adobe $10-80/month for eternity.
Though didn't EA announce something similar a few years ago?

Tanooki

12-06-2015, 08:21 PM

You're correct and my wife has a sub for it since she needs it for her stuff she works on which is very annoying. If there's any consolation prize it was the fact that Adobe made CS2 a free download for anyone to use which is still a very powerful tool and you can apply plugins to beef it up further. I grabbed that when it went live.

Yes I call them rentals, but it just seems dishonest calling them digital downloads because the intent behind the name is saying you paid for it, it's your digital download. But it really isn't. It's a rental because you don't own it, and eventually it goes back into their vault whenever they pull the plug so it fit and that's why I started using the term. Short of GoG or independent sellers, anything downloaded anymore you just don't own, it's a rented out license that can be revoked at any time for any reason by the owners of the code.

bb_hood

12-06-2015, 08:45 PM

Yes I call them rentals, but it just seems dishonest calling them digital downloads because the intent behind the name is saying you paid for it, it's your digital download. But it really isn't. It's a rental because you don't own it, and eventually it goes back into their vault whenever they pull the plug so it fit and that's why I started using the term. Short of GoG or independent sellers, anything downloaded anymore you just don't own, it's a rented out license that can be revoked at any time for any reason by the owners of the code.

Except.. that is not how it works at all. Nintendo or Sony is not going to come into my house and remove the games from my hard drive. The games wont just vanish someday for some unkown reason. Game companies cant just 'revoke' games from your hard drive.

Tanooki

12-06-2015, 11:06 PM

Well duh, that was a stupid comment. When I write something like that I'm thinking long term and the what if's of things. What if your system dies and you need to replace it? Sure you have the discs but none of the patches. Do I really have to spell that out to stop snarky posts?

So no you don't own it. Let's say 10 years from now you want your PS3 games you as I put it 'rented' from PSN, but let's say they no longer host them at all since they've moved onto PS5 by that point. What do you do? You pay up again and buy the games again used on a disc, but then what about all those discs that didn't work correct out of the box that needed a patch or two in the coming days/months to make them alright? Nope, that's gone too, as they moved on.

So yes you're renting your time with the game, or the optimal intended design of the game because once the downloads or patches are pulled, you're stuck. So yes, actually that IS how it works exactly. Sure some crafty few will find ways to hack that system in time and throw patches on there, but for the majority it's not a longer term system like the PS2 was, none of them are anymore. You won't be coming back to your PS3 in 25 years like the NES and going, damn I'd like to play that again, and have it happen at all unless you're lucky and your system is still working, the downloads and patches are there, and it all fires up as intended. Buying a used system far into the future isn't going to be an open and easy option, it will be there, but you'll be stuck with the limitation of the discs made and how buggy or not they were at launch.

JSoup

12-07-2015, 04:04 AM

Except.. that is not how it works at all. Nintendo or Sony is not going to come into my house and remove the games from my hard drive. The games wont just vanish someday for some unkown reason. Game companies cant just 'revoke' games from your hard drive.

There are countless games that have vanished or are otherwise revoked because they required server support that is no longer there. Hooray, you have the game on your system and the company isn't likely to gestapo in an take it. Good luck playing it.

bb_hood

12-07-2015, 05:34 AM

Well duh, that was a stupid comment.

If you say so.

What if your system dies and you need to replace it? Sure you have the discs but none of the patches. Do I really have to spell that out to stop snarky posts?

So no you don't own it. Let's say 10 years from now you want your PS3 games you as I put it 'rented' from PSN, but let's say they no longer host them at all since they've moved onto PS5 by that point. What do you do? You pay up again and buy the games again used on a disc, but then what about all those discs that didn't work correct out of the box that needed a patch or two in the coming days/months to make them alright? Nope, that's gone too, as they moved on.

So yes you're renting your time with the game, or the optimal intended design of the game because once the downloads or patches are pulled, you're stuck. So yes, actually that IS how it works exactly. Sure some crafty few will find ways to hack that system in time and throw patches on there, but for the majority it's not a longer term system like the PS2 was, none of them are anymore. You won't be coming back to your PS3 in 25 years like the NES and going, damn I'd like to play that again, and have it happen at all unless you're lucky and your system is still working, the downloads and patches are there, and it all fires up as intended. Buying a used system far into the future isn't going to be an open and easy option, it will be there, but you'll be stuck with the limitation of the discs made and how buggy or not they were at launch.

If you have the current updated version of a game downloaded its not going to stop working if ps3 loses online support. Im not talking about disc games that require servers.
If your hard drive crashes the games can be re-downloaded multiple times and you can back them up on other hard drives if need be. You can call them rentals all you want but that doesnt mean much.

Tanooki

12-07-2015, 11:33 AM

It's reality calling it that. Do we have to keep ignoring that informed gamers are very few and far between who know they can back up their console hard drives and have the capability to utilize that data if there's a failure, and even less know how to hack the box so they could get patches while they exist now so they could be reapplied later? I'll admit straight up I have no idea how to hack my PS3 so I can swipe patches off the internet and apply them a decade or two down the line if I want to fix a jacked up disc I paid for, and I also have no idea how I could back that data up on a portable drive or whatever if I ever had a PS3 failure and replaced it with another USED one so I could tap into my data again. All that requires special work, it's not right there in the manual saying -- go here and get your patches and get your data back on the system, because by then they don't care they've moved on many times over. The whole point of it is, we're in a console rental type purchase system now if you don't go physical, and even if you do a lot of stuff comes out with problems these days and get patched out and eventually those patches will vanish. Then what? These aren't cards and cartridges where things were properly tested to work before release with the very rare case something so game breaking got a re-issue (like gray Turok Rage Wars.)'

I've got nothing against the modern hardware, but I just feel it has no value beyond it's company set expiration date when they move onto the next is all so when they move on (Sony) I do to and ditch the stuff. I can't validate keeping things that won't eventually work anymore as they'll just be useless. At least the older 20th century stuff short of a motherboard or a chip on cart failure will still work, and if they fail, go buy another, no patches or voodoo needed or permission to be allowed to use it either. It's why I support strongly GoG.com as you get what you pay for and they keep it working through the years and os changes making it a quality investment.

Jsoup makes a good point there too, games that get pulled, great you have them, but if the server support is gone, you're finished anyway as they can't take it from you but it won't work.

bb_hood

12-07-2015, 02:54 PM

It's reality calling it that. Do we have to keep ignoring that informed gamers are very few and far between who know they can back up their console hard drives and have the capability to utilize that data if there's a failure, and even less know how to hack the box so they could get patches while they exist now so they could be reapplied later? I'll admit straight up I have no idea how to hack my PS3 so I can swipe patches off the internet and apply them a decade or two down the line if I want to fix a jacked up disc I paid for, and I also have no idea how I could back that data up on a portable drive or whatever if I ever had a PS3 failure and replaced it with another USED one so I could tap into my data again. All that requires special work, it's not right there in the manual saying -- go here and get your patches and get your data back on the system, because by then they don't care they've moved on many times over. The whole point of it is, we're in a console rental type purchase system now if you don't go physical, and even if you do a lot of stuff comes out with problems these days and get patched out and eventually those patches will vanish. Then what? These aren't cards and cartridges where things were properly tested to work before release with the very rare case something so game breaking got a re-issue (like gray Turok Rage Wars.)'

Its not hard to backup a ps3 hard drive, just because you dont know how doesnt mean its not easy.

I've got nothing against the modern hardware, but I just feel it has no value beyond it's company set expiration date when they move onto the next is all so when they move on (Sony) I do to and ditch the stuff. I can't validate keeping things that won't eventually work anymore as they'll just be useless. At least the older 20th century stuff short of a motherboard or a chip on cart failure will still work, and if they fail, go buy another, no patches or voodoo needed or permission to be allowed to use it either. It's why I support strongly GoG.com as you get what you pay for and they keep it working through the years and os changes making it a quality investment.

Everything will stop functioning at some point. Carts and discs will stop functioning at some point in time, so why dont you call those 'rentals' as well? You are fine with buying those more than once, but you wont download a game because 25 years later you MIGHT not be able to play it?
I have PS3 & wii games that were downloaded 7+ years ago that still play and can still be re-downloaded for free if need be. You make it sound like these games will just stop working after a short period of time, which is not true.
You praise GoG but shit on everything else.

Tanooki

12-07-2015, 05:40 PM

Look I'm not going to do this with you anymore. Clearly it's too hard for you to grasp that's beyond the capabilities or interest(me) of doing that or even figuring it out, and many others would likely have no clue it could even be done. People don't read, they don't think much in general either, it has to be in front of them and easy to do, this isn't. You're a gamer, have been for decades so it's a non-issue as you're in the gross minority that are both informed and engaged to do it. It's sad you can't get over that hump and see the big picture.

Carts can be replaced that's why. They don't need a server, they don't need hard drive patches to work right, they don't need some central hub. You just go find it, buy it, shove it in the slot and hit the big power button and it plays. That's why it's not a rental. I've had a couple dead carts over the years I bought used, and replaced with non-dead ones, so no, it's not the same thing. I really have to wonder if you don't get this, or you're trolling for fun at this point.

Good luck with that PS3 on its 30th anniversary, it won't be in the same league of ease or function the NES was on its. That's about as simple as a comparison that can be made here and yes I do shit on other download services on console or with a DRM wall frontend like Steam/Desura/etc because you don't own the game and how to control it, and on GoG you do. Again there's a difference there that's very simple to get.

bb_hood

12-07-2015, 07:39 PM

Look I'm not going to do this with you anymore.
ok.

It's sad you can't get over that hump and see the big picture.

Which is what? Since some people wont bother backing up a hard drive then its a waste of time for me to do so?

I really have to wonder if you don't get this, or you're trolling for fun at this point.
Im not trolling, but this is fun.

Good luck with that PS3 on its 30th anniversary,
Thanks! If my PS3 doesnt break and my hard drive doesnt crash all the games (except for bomberman online) will still be playable.
When I purchase digital downloads Im not worried that they wont be playable 25-30 years from now. I dont need to feel like I 'own a game for eternity' in order to enjoy it.

SparTonberry

12-08-2015, 01:14 AM

I'm sure there's people that HAVE been backing up the patches so in 25-30 years it will be possible (in emulation, if needed).

Not like Xband for SNES/Genesis or the Sega Channel-exclusives (ie US Mega Man: Wily Wars), and probably some Satellaview stuff as well (though I have heard of Japanese collectors knowing they have undumped Satellaview stuff and hoarding it, maybe even the remaining tracks in BS F-Zero 2?) where people didn't get it preserved while it was alive.

I'm sure in time people will have ways to recover digital purchases on modern consoles (Wii and 3DS are stored in encrypted form on SD cards that can be backed up infinitely on PC, though will only decrypt on the original console). Right now it's piracy but in time will be necessary, and I'm sure by then the homebrew scene will have an easy recovery solution.
I tried looking at preserving my 3DS stuff but came to the conclusion it's not worth a brick while the system is alive.

Edmond Dantes

12-08-2015, 06:21 AM

Which is what? Since some people wont bother backing up a hard drive then its a waste of time for me to do so?

Now, personally I don't think Tanooki is stating his point as clearly as he could, but even I got that he's not talking specifically about you or himself--he's talking in a general sense. The fact is, many download-only, DRM-locked games will in fact be lost over time simply because of consumer ignorance.

Yes, YOU know how to back up your hard drive. Do you also buy every game and download every patch and DLC too? I doubt it. So only the games you personally preserved will (as far as you know) still exist in 20 years... and then might not be playable. And that's just kind of a sad situation in general.

bb_hood

12-08-2015, 08:23 AM

Now, personally I don't think Tanooki is stating his point as clearly as he could, but even I got that he's not talking specifically about you or himself--he's talking in a general sense. The fact is, many download-only, DRM-locked games will in fact be lost over time simply because of consumer ignorance.

Yes, YOU know how to back up your hard drive. Do you also buy every game and download every patch and DLC too? I doubt it. So only the games you personally preserved will (as far as you know) still exist in 20 years... and then might not be playable. And that's just kind of a sad situation in general.

Im sure that some consumers dont care or may not be aware how to back up a hard drive, but its still an option to help preserve games you have paid for. And these games wont just vanish off of a functional hard drive once you buy them. To say that downloading games is analogous to renting them makes no sense. When was the last time you rented a video game or movie and was allowed to keep it for 20-30 years? When I pay for downloads its because I want the content now, and Im not concerned about 20 years later.

CRTGAMER

12-08-2015, 09:18 AM

One issue of the DRM games is the continual online authentication to run a purchased download even if only played offline. If PS4-WiiU-XboxOne downloads are like Steam, then the games are definitely Rentals. Backing up the hard drive would not help in this case.

One Member back at Racketboy reported that ALL his Steam games on his hard drive got instantly locked out when he did not sign an update agreement with Steam. The games became magically unlocked after he signed the new arbitration rules set by Steam.

Tanooki

12-08-2015, 10:53 AM

Edmond basically yes that was the points.

CRT-- I remember seeing that. I was tempted to try it myself as I hate clicking on all that EULA legal gibberish, but just didn't want the headache. It's pretty bad though if you don't agree to their DRM terms stuff you pay for is no longer allowed to be used, but that's what the fine print is there for to remind you that you don't own a game on there, you own the right to use it as long as you continually agree to the amending of the rights they require you to agree to.

BHvrd

12-11-2015, 03:30 AM

In an effort to bring this topic back out of left field, i'll just say yeah the shit has gotten complicated and good heads up for some parents that may get caught up in the hype and forget all this shiznit. http://i.imgur.com/mcuADkw.gif

Zing

12-15-2015, 11:21 AM

I was six-years-old when I opened my ColecoVision Christmas morning. I had it set up and playing Donkey Kong before my parents even woke up. I bought a Wii U a full year after its release and it took about four hours before I could play anything, and this was with a physical disc!

I bought a PS3 recently and it took about an hour to setup and download one digital game on an Internet connection far faster than PSN can consume. I think this is one problem with the current generation. PSN download speeds are ridiculously slow regardless of platform.

12-16-2015, 07:12 PM

Do you also buy every game and download every patch and DLC too?

Here is an issue with the 360 that I think is a major one, a very stupid design flaw that I still don't understand why they haven't updated it. Anything you buy digitally is playable offline as long as you're on the original console you downloaded it to. You can play it on another console if you download it again or physically copy it over as long as you're connected to Xbox Live.

Here's the hitch, DLC for several games require the title update in order for that DLC to be functional, even if playing offline. The Xbox only saves a certain number of updates to your HDD regardless of HDD or update size. I don't know the number offhand, but let's say it's 10. Once you play that 11th game that requires an online update, game update #1 is deleted no matter how big or small it is. To complicate matters worse you can't just download the update then back it up yourself like you could other files, because as far as I can tell (and I might be wrong) all updates aren't necessarily stored in the normal game folder file structure like other DLC is.

Prime example of this in action is with Street Fighter X Tekken. The console I play this on is the same console I purchased the DLC with, so I can use the DLC without having any internet connection. Fired it up one day when my ISP was down and it kept telling me my DLC was corrupt and some other error messages. Come to find out the DLC requires the newest game update which wasn't on my system since I hadn't played the game in several months, and I was unable to use any of the DLC until I was able to get on XBL. This works the same with Mortal Kombat and other games. There's also games like Black Ops that have important offline gameplay functions in these title updates, so one can't say these title updates are just to fix multiplayer or online issues. Having to download the same update files every week or two is extremely annoying and is something that should have been done away with years ago. If MS ever decides to kill update/online support for certain titles (or XBL for the 360 altogether) this type digital content is rendered useless even if you're playing on the original system you bought it on.

SparTonberry

12-16-2015, 07:25 PM

Something I should ask again on that subject...

how exactly do 3DS software updates work?
Like I have a physical copy of Pokemon X. I updated it to the most recent version (1.5, I think). From what I remember reading somewhere, the 1.0 version remains on the card but the 1.5 patch is downloaded to my console. I remember reading the 3DS does some kind of version checking.
Does that mean if I took my card to another 3DS, I'd be required to update to 1.5 on that console or I wouldn't be able to play?
(games storing patches independent of the game would explain why even a digital copy needs to be updated. I recall when I bought a digital copy of Y, I still had to immediately download whatever the most recent update was. I think it was 1.2 and then 1.3+ were post-ORAS compatibility updates)

Or maybe the game would nuke the save file if the console doesn't have the most recent update used to play the game? Was that it? (which would still suck as it was a sealed copy of X I bought as a backup, only for me to decide to open it for the Hoopa distribution)